“Attention Must Be Paid”

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, I'll talk with Jeannie McManus about the end of the Washington Post sports section. Plus, we'll preview the Super Bowl with Jason LaConfora, and we'll get our picks as usual from James Carville and Jeff Ma. But first, let's keep the sales weasels happy. Previously on The Tony Kornheiser Show. And we're on two, and Jordan is coming up the other way, seven or eight, whatever it is. And I see Jordan, and Alan says, there's Jordan. So I start to walk over to Jordan. So Jordan, he's beaming. He's beaming. Gives me a big hug. And we talk about Wilbon. We talk about Wilbon. Of course, the text change. I say, where's your boy? I say, what am I doing here before him? And he just makes fun of Wilbon. Of course, call Wilbon and tell him all about this. The Tony Kornheiser Show is on now. All righty then. There were a couple of things I was going to do today to start the show. I was going to talk about Jenny's ice cream because we got a bunch of Jenny's ice cream. Yes. And I was going to talk about this new candy, Kinder or Kinder Bueno. I don't know how it is exactly pronounced, which we have tried and which the boys have tried. Boys have had a big week. Yeah, but this, yeah, they tried everything. But there's greater news than this in my life and in the lives of people who work at newspapers and who live in Washington, D.C. and that is the gutting of the Washington Post sports section and metro section and soon style section I'm sure. Books. I would have told you there's no book section. I would have done this on Wednesday except it wasn't official. People had heard about it. People were afraid of it. People were convinced it was going to happen but it wasn't official and the one thing you learn when you work on a newspaper is get it right. So I held back. But Jeannie joins us now because we both worked at the Post for a million years. And I think you start with the two responses. One is the emotional response. And then, you know, I think you have to force yourself to say, from a business standpoint, is this a practical thing for the Washington Post to do? So I'll ask you both. Well, emotional response. I'm just trying to keep this in perspective. I mean, I'm of a certain age. We've all experienced grief and loss. So I'm trying to keep this in perspective. But I keep getting messages and texts from friends who feel a personal loss themselves and feel my loss. And, you know, I really value that. And it makes you realize how much the paper is a part of not just everybody's day, everybody's life, but just our whole world. I mean, I'm a native Washingtonian. I grew up on the Washington Post the way Don Graham talks about it, reading the comics and then reading the sports section. So, you know, it is an emotional loss. From a business point of view, here's the question I keep asking. What's the plan? What's the plan? It's been called, I think, by Will Lewis, quote, a strategic reset. What does that mean? Does it mean you want to be the Wall Street Journal? Does it mean you want to be Politico? I don't get it. And, you know, there's lots of conspiratorial thoughts. I know, you know, we think that way because we're journalists. But if this were motivated solely by Trump, why didn't they kill the national staff who's been just bearing down on him, who have been doing wonderful, assertive reporting on the Trump administration? I don't get it. Yeah, I mean, my feeling is the same way. when we started to hear about this within the last month, the people on the staff that I talked to, Matt Rennie for at least a month was saying that deep cuts are going to happen. We could lose the entire section. And my first response is, of course, I worked there and I worked in newspapers. All I ever wanted to do, I called Kindred about this and Kindred said to me, all I ever wanted to do in my life is go to games and write about them. And that was exactly the way I felt and just wanted to be a newspaper sports writer. And I just felt, well, how could you do this? How could you get rid of a sports section, a unifying thing in a city? You know, politics is divisive and sports is unifying and people go to the sports section, even if they're not sports fans, they go to the sports section. If you lived in Washington, D.C., I was amazed when I came down here a million years ago what a hold the Washington football team had on the city. how important it was to every strata in the city and that that import is still there it certainly there was awakened not this past season but the season before when they had a really good season and people come in from england and they come in from the wall street journal and they come in from california and then they just say yeah we're just gonna throw this thing out we're gonna throw the sports section out we're gonna throw the metro section out i'm gonna paraphrase remnick here because called Remnick because Remnick's smarter than I am. And he said, you know, the job of the Metro section is to put the mayor in jail if he or she deserves it. And I said the job of the sports section is to fire the coach if he deserves it. That's the job. Now that's not there. There's this huge trade, Anthony Davis, who I don't think will ever play a minute in Washington, but okay, but he gets traded here. It's covered by wires. This would be an A-1 story, right? It's an A-1 story. Yeah, and I mean, to have something covered by the wires, it's just like a knife in your heart to see that, with all due respect to wire reporters. But, you know, Tony, we had an incredible advantage. We had two executive editors in Ben Bradley and Len Downey and a publisher and the wonderful Don Graham who were very knowledgeable about sports. Yes, loved it. Were very knowledgeable about the importance of a sports section in the paper. Now, that's a blessing and a curse, of course, because they'd be breathing down your neck. They'd be in there. They'd be in there. If you missed the story. We also, though, had a wonderful sports editor, George Solomon, who would occasionally put his finger in their eyes and say, back off. We had that. This is George's favorite expression. We had that. We had that six months ago, whatever. But anyway, they valued the sports section. They held us to the same bar that they held every other reporter. There was incredible accountability reporting in sports, investigative reporting, wonderful feature writing in sports, and that was expected of all of us. You know, when I first became deputy sports senator, some people said to me, oh, you get to go to all the games. I'm just like, are you kidding me? I mean, look at the sports section, how much more it is than just box scores and games, although those are very important, too. It's look, I loved it and you loved it. And I grew up wanting to be on a newspaper. And now I face the reality that the capital of the United States of America does not have a newspaper. It does not. Not a full newspaper. And I would ask you, we're old. Where are the next papers coming from? Or are there no papers? Does everything go online without any particular standard of how you express your opinion? You know, because anybody has access to the Internet. What's next? Do you think you think this will be there'll be a rally to get somebody will try and put together something like a newspaper? No, Tony, you're more of a Neanderthal than even I am. There won't be paper paper, but there's certainly a void, I would think, that somebody could dive into and say, okay, here is a city of 800,000 people and, what, eight or nine sports teams and college sports that doesn't have a source for reliable reporting on sports. So somebody, I would think, could dive into that abyss and come up with some sort of a digital option for us. I don't know who that is. I don't know where their money is. But if there is such a person, I would hope they would hire all of our dear friends who have lost their jobs. That's where my ache really is. I really ache for them. I mean, Maskey. I've been editing Maskey since he was a sophomore at UVA. when he was a stringer covering Virginia football for us. I mean, my heart just grieves for him. I made sure to call Maskey. I made sure to text Verluga because he's over in Italy. I made sure to call Shinin, called Gene Wong, called Matt Rennie, people that I had actually worked with. Called Chuck Culpepper, who I never worked with but wanted him to hear the message, which is, you know, if there's anything I can do, anything, I'm happy to do it. But I have, I'll just say this. I won't say I have the best sort of resume in newspaper working, but nobody has a better one. I work for Newsday. I work for the New York Times. I work for the Washington Post. Nobody's got ideas. It's not better than that. And I'm not talking about what I did there. I'm just saying that that's where I worked. Okay. I worked for great newspapers. I can no longer get a job in my chosen profession at the Washington Post. Can't get one because they don't have a sports section. I can't get one at the New York Times because they got rid of their sports section and bought something called The Athletic that is different than working for the New York Times. I guess maybe I could work at Newsday. I don't know. Wilbon was telling me last night that, you know, Chicago Tribune isn't any good and the LA Times doesn't cover locally anymore. The best sections, best sports sections in the country throughout my entire career were, you know, we'll go from east to west. The Boston Globe, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the L.A. Times. They were the best. Dallas was good, too. A lot of others were good, but, I mean, those were the best. I was really proud. And to your point, when people send me messages of condolences, I write this back. I'm okay. I've got a job. The condolences should go to people. on the Washington Post sports staff who thought they had climbed to the top of the pyramid in their chosen profession and then were just thrown over the side into the water. Like, what happens? Where do they go? Right, Jean? Where do they go? What do we do for them? Who had worked incredibly hard to reach that position. The other thing about sports sections, and it's true of metro sections too. They are entry-level reporting positions. They are a way to get new blood youth into the institution of a newspaper. You don't have rookies coming to the national section or the foreign section, but you have them coming in through Metro and sports, and then you watch them rise. I mean, look at the success of, for example, a Metro reporter named Bob Woodward. Yeah, how did he do? How did David Remnick do when he joined the Washington Post as a sports writer? How did he do after that? Did you win the Pulitzer Prize? Because I haven't won the Pulitzer Prize. Do you edit the New Yorker? No. Yeah, you're right about it. So I don't want to make this about, you know, what happened to me. I've never even been in the new building. I mean, I'm out of there for almost 20 years. You know, I loved what I did, but I don't feel this in the way that somebody who just lost this job feels it, right? I mean, it's unbelievable. Right. Right. And as much as we like to make it about ourselves, Tony, in this case, it really is not about ourselves. No. It really is. And I mean, how do you possibly, you can't possibly rebuild a sports section. Suppose somebody else decided to buy Jeff Bezos' paper. Yeah. Contact him on his yacht and see if he'd be willing to sell the paper. Like, how would you possibly begin to rebuild the foreign staff that is like standing in war zones when they get the message that they're laid off or the entire sports section? You just couldn't possibly rebuild it. How does the New York Times survive? What is the difference between the New York Times and the Washington Post that the New York Times? I don't know if it's thriving, but it certainly is surviving and has, I think, a larger impact than it's ever had. is thriving because here's what they had. They had people making smart, imaginative decisions. They bought the athletic, okay? Maybe you don't like the athletic as much as you like the New York Times sports, but New York Times was not where you went to sports. You went to the New York Daily News. So that was a smart decision. They bought puzzles. People subscribed to get puzzles. I'm one of those puzzle nerds. I do them all every morning. I've already done all of them, okay? They came up with this fabulous cooking section. I've stopped using cookbooks. If I want to find a recipe, I go to New York Times Cooking. They bought wire cutters. It's like a consumer product. Yeah. Observe it. And that's where they make their money. Well, and they are still, and I don't know if I'm right on this in terms of the impact, but they're still a family-owned newspaper. They still have skin in the game. Bezos does not. He does not. He's the richest person in the world. I mean, everybody writes this. You could turn over the couches in his house and get enough money to fund the Washington Post losses for 10 years. That's right. He's got hundreds of billions of dollars. And a billion is so much more than a million, than a hundred million, than three hundred. It's just so much more. Is he the villain in this piece in your mind? Or is henchmen the villain? Or is it good business? For him. For him. Well, I don't know about business because I can't tell what the hell their business plan is, okay? Right, right. But I would call him a villain, yes, because when he bought the paper, he said, I'm going to provide this runway for great reporting and great journalism. And somewhere along the line, I'm not blaming it on his marriage, whatever, but something turned. And he left, you know, the business of running the paper, and he left it to this guy, Will Lewis, who is supposed to be the publisher. However, his name is not on the masthead. But he's the one who's sort of wielding this axe. He's the one who fired Sally Busby because she wouldn't run a story that reflected on him poorly. He's the one that decided we're going to have a third newsroom with soft stuff and then a second newsroom with opinion and a first newsroom with hard news. Well, that never happened. Whereas the people of The New York Times are making very sound, imaginative and financially strong decisions, this guy is just clueless. And Jeff Bezos is on his yacht. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was no obvious compromise here. I mean, just people got lopped off and they saw it coming. Can a paper survive do you think these days Can what we think of as a newspaper that comes to your house every day can that survive anywhere Oh I don know Tony I mean I think the New York Times is doing as good a job as anybody I don see the Boston Globe that much or any of the California Well, I sometimes see the San Francisco Examiner, but, I mean, the paper paper is pretty thin gruel. I mean, I don't know when their first edition closes, but they often don't have NBA games in their first edition or in their final edition. The current Washington Post has all wire copy. They sent a couple of, don't be fooled here. They're going to give you a lot of good Olympic coverage, but when that ends, those people are fired. They're going to have to come back, and you're not going to read that anymore. You're just going to get wire copy. The Washington Wizards last night, a terrible team that should be investigated for fraud, beat Detroit. It's one of the biggest upsets of the year, and there's a six-inch wire story on it. That's all there is. A six-inch wire story. That was another tell for me. When I heard, first of all, that they weren't sending someone to the Olympics and then that they were going to send four people. And when I heard that they weren't going to send anybody to spring training, I thought, no, those are people making those decisions who have no understanding of a sports section. Who have no understanding that you cannot send four people to an Olympics. An Olympics does not take place in one arena. And Olympics takes place across a huge geographical swath. And spring training does two things. First of all, it fills this incredible void between when the NFL season begins and March Madness begins. And the NBA is kind of in a lull. Okay, that's what spring training does. But spring training also gives the reporters a chance to really talk to players, to really talk to the coaching staff, to really get into the blood of that team. And if you don't send reporters to spring training, you're never going to have that. Thank you, Jeannie. I would tell everybody, and I know you would agree with me, if you can read Sally Jenkins' piece in The Atlantic, read it. Because it will explain how we feel, right? It'll explain. Also read Alexandra Petrie in The Atlantic, another very good one. Thanks, Jeannie. Okay, bye, Jeannie. Jeannie McManus, boys and girls. We will take a break, and we will talk to another Washington Post alum when we come back. Jason La Confora, I'm Tony Kornheiser. This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. It's the last call for football on FanDuel, one final Sunday, one last kickoff, the final chance to place your bets before the NFL season closes its tab. This is Super Bowl 60 and FanDuel is making sure you're in on it. 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So congratulations on Wannabett, which we will get to. I want to talk about the coaching hires, and I want to talk about your thoughts of the Super Bowl, but I can't bring you on without asking you about the Washington Post, what just happened. We just had Jeannie on, and you worked at the Post. What are your thoughts? It's devastating. I got out of college in 96, and so I've kind of been doing this. I've been writing about sports professionally since then. So that's 30 years, and 28 of those I was at the Post. It's hard to fathom in real time, even though I knew it was coming, get your head around this new calibration that the Washington Post does not exist in the sports. You know, what we would have said reporting, I guess now they'll call it content space whatsoever, that we are at a moment in sports where it's intersecting with politics at such an extreme rate. Not that it hasn't always, but no one can ignore it anymore. And we're on the cusp of an Olympics, which I guess has technically started, and we're hosting the World Cup for the second time ever. And spring training's starting, and there's a Super Bowl happening. And the Washington Post isn't. I mean, and look, the guys who are staying, less than those guys, and I understand what they're doing in the Olympics, But like the story isn't that the Post is doing all this amazing journalism. The story is that the Post doesn't really exist anymore in anything close to the form that we lived with it for generations. I mean, it's the thing I'm most proud of in my career is being associated with the paper and having the opportunity to serve a bunch of different roles over a decade and a half. and to be gone as long as I was gone and to be welcomed back immediately when I had the chance to write about the NFL once again in some capacity that wasn't completely owned by the league or owned by CBS. The amazing people that I was allowed to rub elbows with and share press box with and share cafeterias with and share media bus rides with media shuttles. like it's something I always thought I'd be able to talk to my kids or grandkids about you know what I mean and maybe like hey man like are the archives going to live you know what I mean like am I going to be able to find something I wrote you know from Finland 20 years ago like I don't know Tony it's it's I knew it was happening I got my head around it I felt like I had my head around it and then when everything was formalized with those announcements, it really threw me into a tailspin that I'm frankly still in. It's just one of these pillars that you never take for granted, even in real time. And this is about one thing and one thing only for me. And then I'll shut up about it. This is about tearing down institutions that are there to provide that seek truth, that seek the light, that strive to educate and edify and buttress our culture, that serve to hold to account those who are now more willing and able than ever to tear those very standards and practices and norms and pillars down. This is a billionaire who wants even more unfettered access to a president and even more ability to lead his businesses in whatever corrupt and anti-human ways he wants to. It's a coalition of bond villains who have gotten together to destroy the media and whatever was left of those who would hold them and this disgusting government in check. That's what it's about. It's not about, really, for me, anything else than that. It's not about the money. He's rubbing the money in everybody's face. It's about taking this thing and destroying it and destroying everything that it and those, I don't know, thousands of people over the years who worked there believed in. We'll go to football. I wanted to talk about coaching hires. There's like 10 of them or 11 of them, whatever there are. Are there any one or two or three that stand out to you either for good or for, whoa, what's that? I mean, I think, again, we've hinted at this in the past. I think what Baltimore and Buffalo and Pittsburgh did, like, it just feels a little too comfortable and a little too convenient for me. You know, I think those were always going to go in a certain direction unless something truly jarring happened that got the powers that be to see things other than through the portal that they, you know, most likely saw it through before they even started interviewing people, which was the Bills and the Ravens were going to stay within their sort of incubator, and they look at Joe Brady and Jesse Minter's products of their DNA and their climate and their culture and their pristine personnel departments. I would say they've got issues in all of those areas, but they have pushed back on that through words and deeds. And then Pittsburgh, it's a Pittsburgh guy who they've known forever, who they've been familiar with forever, who they've been hanging out at combines and Super Bowls with forever. that has a resume that looks a lot like Mike Tomlin's recent resume. He goes about it in a different way. But, boy, it just kind of feels like more of the same only without. He's not Mike Tomlin. He's not the leader that Mike Tomlin is. He's not the galvanizer. He can't motivate like Mike Tomlin. Certainly not at this stage of his career. So I think all three of those teams might find themselves really missing what they had. And I understand why most of them moved on. But I think Andy Reid, I'm convinced Andy Reid is the biggest winner of this offseason in the AFC. And that the brain drain that's going out of that conference and the adults who've left that conference being replaced with, in many cases, people you're hoping and praying can do the job, but you have no idea if they actually can. and I look at the staff that they're building, and I don't know, man. I don't know. Like, I think New England's going to feel real good about where they are in that division. I think the AFC North is a shell of what it once was, and I look out for the Chiefs. Do you like any particular hire? Do you think, ooh, I think they may have gotten it right? Because these teams are dreadful. Most of the teams— Well, no, most of them are good. Look, I mean, there's 10-tone history will tell us. seven will be abject failures who never get even a second contract with the teams they're with, let alone a whiff of getting a chance to coach anywhere else again. One will be a truly inspired generational hire, and two will prove they can coach in the league, and they'll have opportunities elsewhere. But the idea that they're going to transform franchises or are the culture changers that they're hired to be, they'll probably be less than that. I mean, some of these places, is like, what is Cleveland? You know what I mean? Like, what is Miami? What is Arizona? Like, I think we know what they are. You know, I covered the three teams that have been competitive in the AFC recently where the standard is higher. All those coaching hires, not just the head coach, but the staffs in large part, have left me wanting more. I mean, I'm not a Clint Kubiak guy at all. I think he's an offensive coordinator and not a head coach. But, I mean, they're going to get Mendoza. Tom Brady's going to be involved. Could the Raiders, they're going to have a lot to sort out here with Max Crosby, but could the Raiders actually take a step forward? I think Halfley is an interesting resume. Going to Miami, that's tough. I think Halfley has a chance to be good. I think Jesse Minter and Baltimore, Jesse Minter was going to deserve a job. The staff he's putting together, if I'm a Ravens fan, it should scare the bejesus out of me. Yeah, I don't. You know the people involved, and I don't know the people involved. But okay, all right, we'll move on. Let's move to the game. New England, Seattle, your thoughts? I might be just the most square analyst in the world. This has looked to me like a good matchup for Seattle since within an hour of us knowing they were playing each other a couple Sundays ago. or I guess one Sunday or two. I'm good at math. I still see it that way, Cone. I mean, I think they have the better offense, defense, and special teams. I think they have the quarterback who's probably the healthiest and as I know, Sam Donald turned it over more than anybody else, but in terms of what they're going to have to do to win this game, I think they have the quarterback who's probably in the best position not to F it up. And whichever quarterback effed it up the least is probably going to be the last one standing I don know I mean Rabel a really good head coach but this is uncharted territory for Rabel and McDonald just might be a better head coach. I like Seattle. I think as long as Sam Donald doesn't turn into a double agent, I think Seattle could win this as a low-scoring game. I also think Seattle had the number one offense in the league in air yards per attempt. If there are explosives, if the defenses do have holes, if there are explosive plays on special teams, I would prefer Seattle in a high-scoring game as well because I think they have more explosive difference makers on offense. The New England offense for me is just a little too much plow horse. It's a little too much three yards in a cloud of dust unless they really lean on Henderson. or in the passing game, five yards and a cloud of dust. Like May throws a really good deep ball. But, I mean, are Hunter Henry and Stephon Diggs going to beat this zone defense deep? I just have a hard time seeing it. And his shoulder's a little messed up. So I think Seattle proved to be the best team coming out of the best division in football. And not only did they have to run that gauntlet in the regular season, they then had to go through and slay the Dragons again in the playoffs. And they did. And, yeah, they did it with a bye that they earned. And they did it at home because they earned that too. But I think McDonald will have them prepared. And I think Drake May, with those weapons, with an offensive line that's been janky, with a young left tackle who's been exposed, and with, you know, maybe a bummed shoulder, I just think it's going to be a tough ask for him to generate enough points to win the game. Don't disagree. Don't disagree with any of that. The one thing I would say that you haven't said, but you really said it anyway, I'd be very surprised if New England won by a lot, and I would not be very surprised if Seattle won by a lot or a little. I would not be. Why don't you plug one of that for us? You can check me and the aforementioned Beltway. Ben, all out seven days a week. We're pretty much at 11 a.m. Eastern all the time now. We are trying to give you guys the best chance to make some plus money wagers seven days a week to get a little bit of the house's money back. We're in pretty much any market that you guys would be interested in, soccer, basketball, soon-to-be baseball and baseball futures, obviously, football. You can catch us on YouTube. You can catch us on Twitter. We break down every bet. We show our work. We open and close every show with how we've done since we started the show, how we did last night. In this case, last night was not great for me. I will have a kangaroo kicking my ass on the show. Don't ask. Just watch. And you can get all our content at wannabetwithus.com. And if you are in the industry out there and you're looking for an NFL writer, I would love to cover the NFL for you. My resume is all over LinkedIn because, well, I'm trying to make some more money, Tom. You know how that goes. Thank you, Jason. Jason Locke and Fora, boys and girls. We will take a break. We will come back with James Carville and Jeff Ma last time around for the betting season. I'm Tony Kornheiser. This is The Tony Kornheiser Show. 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I watch it, and when it's ready, I let it sit like they tell you to, and then I eat it, and you've done the same. Makes it feel like you run a patisserie. It's just really good. It's really good. Right now, Wild Grain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box, plus free croissants for life. For life. For life. When you go to wildgrain.com slash Tony K to start your subscription today. That's $30 off your first box and free croissants for life when you visit wildgrain.com slash Tony K, or you can use promo code Tony K at checkout. You're listening to The Tony Kornheiser Show. Well, you wake up in the morning, boy. You hear the ding-dong ring. Then you look upon the table, Bob. You see the same darn thing. You find no food upon the table, Bob. There's no fork up in the pan. But you better not complain, Bob. You get in trouble with the man. What a great beginning that is. What a great beginning. It really is. from Mark in Manhattan. Before the football season is over, just got to say Carville is the best. Just the best. That's it. That's the email. James Carville joins us now. And this week's picks with James Carville and Jeff Ma brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more. You were 4-2 last week because everything was a double play. You're 57- 55-2. If you knock a few out of the park on this and Jeff Ma goes down the drain, you can actually catch and pass Jeff Ma. How do you feel about that? Well, that's the strategy here. 57-55 is not acceptable. That's mediocre. So as we were scheduling, you know, you went to the plate to bat. You said, I'm going for the downs. Okay. I mean, the whole thing, we're going for the downs, okay? All right. What do you got? What do you got? Double play Seahawks minus 4.5. Okay. Double play under 46. Under 46? Single play. Ramondre Stevenson over 23.5 receiving yards. Okay. George Holani over 1.5 receptions. Is that a single as well? Always a single. Okay. Okay. It's a single. George Holani over 1.5 receptions. Kenneth Walker under 75.5 rushing yards. and Drake May will throw an interception. Okay, so you've got two, four, six, eight. You've got eight bets on the line counting doubles, right? Correct, and we're going for it. We're after Mr. Ma. Yeah. What are you most confident in? Maybe the under. The under? Maybe. Yeah. But, you know, it's true. It's not. If you're going for a double play, you've got to express some confidence. But, you know, I think we're like three or four in a row on the Super Bowl. We've been hot. You know, we were hot last year and year before last. We cooled off a little bit this year. But if we do this, we could end up pretty good. Let's see. I understand the under, you know, because I've seen Seattle win 13-3, you know, against a good team, 13-3. They don't have to score a lot. Sometimes they do, but they don't have to. All right, we got all your bets. We'll see you. Okay, man. It's a great pleasure, as always. Thank you, James. Thank you, John. Thank all of you. Okay, take care, man. James Carville, boys and girls. And right following James Carville, we've got Jeff Ma. Jeff was 1-2 last week, which isn't great, but he's 54-45-1, and nobody can catch him. The only way Jeff can screw this up is to do 23 prop bets and lose them all. He's too smart to do that. He went to MIT. Before we get to the game, the waste management happens this week, right? That starts Thursday, right? Yes. So we're Friday, and that's Thursday. You were out there, yes? Yeah, I was just out there. I just left the ground. Yeah, I was at 16 for some hospitality there. Did you throw any beer at anybody? To take off your shirt? No, there's signs that literally say you throw stuff, you're out. Really? Yeah. It's a kinder-juntler waste management open now. Yeah, last year was bizarre and over the line in everybody's estimation, right? It really was. No, it was two years ago. It was a really bad year because the weather was really bad. And you couldn't walk on a lot of the ground and people were sliding and breaking their arms and things like that. This year it was like 75 degrees and perfect. I mean, Scottsdale, North Scottsdale is amazing. Yes, not just Scottsdale, only North Scottsdale. Only near Whisper Rock. Only there. No, but I thought the behavior last year was such that everybody sort of took a step back. I think they're trying to refine things. I mean, it's a good word. We did the program that I run, Access, which is part of Troon, which is my job, my day job now. We did an activation there. I think I mentioned to you guys that there was a guy when we were doing this serious meeting that just gave me a lachiserie out of nowhere. Yeah, that's great. And he actually sent you an email. He's offering for, his name is John Glenn, not that John Glenn. Okay. And he offered you and Michael a spot at the Waste Management Phoenix Open Pro-Am, if you guys ever want to make your way out there. I didn't see that. Did he do that today? I didn't see that. No, he sent it a while ago, and it's a good email. He runs PR for the Fairmont, and he's very adamant about connecting with you guys. The concierge for the Fairmont. He weaved in all the David Aldridge moments and whatnot. Really? Yeah. Wow. He did. I remember him sending that email. Well, I will tell you this. This is a true fact. Next year, the Super Bowl is in Los Angeles. And Wilbon and I have agreed to go to some sort of function in Phoenix after the Super Bowl. And Wilbon says we can drive there. He says a four-hour drive. But Wilbon math is like it's probably an eight-hour. How long a drive is that, do you think, Jeff? It's not four hours. It's more, right? It's got to be more than that. It's got to be more. In any case... There's a website called Google Maps. You can just enter those things in and you can figure out how long a drive it is. Okay. I think I've heard of that, Google Maps. I think I've heard of that. So maybe if I'm out there... You could take a Waymo, maybe. I'm not taking a Waymo. I'm not doing that. Melman's done that. I'm not doing that. All right. Let's go to the game. You got one bet or you got a million bets? I have a couple bets. Okay. I'm going to take – I'll wait to say who I'm going to take in the game. Okay. But there's a couple. Like, on Bet the Process this week, we had a guy on our show named Matthew David Al, who's one of the sharpest sports bettors out there. And we talked a little bit about this game. And one of the things we like is the Kenneth Walker under on rushing yards. So that's 73-and-a-half. and you know the the interesting thing about this whole kenneth walker thing is that he you know last week he's the only runner now charbonnet's out the runner now but they they are very afraid of him being in pass protection he's small he doesn't really have like he's just like it's a whole situation so he he gets a lot of the running snaps and honestly like you know i think the patriots will be clued into this so they're going to have to mix things up a little bit and i just don't see him getting enough attempts to really go over the 73 and a half so you take the under on that okay under on that right and then a kind of an interesting one is they have a prop that how many players uh attempt to pass and it's always two and a half where if you bet the over you actually have to like you you get paid to bet the over meaning like you get two to one or or whatnot odds we think this is priced poorly because neither of these teams really has someone that you would naturally think about. Cooper Cupp is the only person on that team that's a position player, and the Patriots really have had no one. The only way I think this goes over is if there's a fake punt of some sort and there's a pass with that. So you'll take the under two and a half? Under two and a half, yeah. So you're saying it'll only be May and Darnold? Yes, that's what I think. So how would this work? If one of them got injured and another quarterback had to come in that would be the over then, right? Yeah, you'd lose. And that's why there's a lot of allure to taking the over, but that's why there's value to taking the under. Okay, all right. What else? Then I'll just bet the game. Okay. I think that it's a tough game, obviously, because the Patriots have played three games in pretty poor conditions and their offense hasn't looked good. I think that everyone thinks Seattle is sort of the elite team. But I think there's a world where the Patriots scheme some stuff up, Probably Drake may run a little bit more than usual, and the Patriots defense has played really well. I think a lot of this is going to be game state. If the Patriots can get up and force Darnold into some situations where he's uncomfortable, I think he could. He had the most turnovers in the league this year. So even though he played incredibly well last week, he's still turnover prone and can turn over the ball. And if you turn the ball over in the Super Bowl, you're not going to win. So I like the Patriots plus the 4.5. So I'm interested in your thinking and all that, Because, I mean, I look at this game. I think Seattle was in the hardest division in the league. I think they were dominating in the hardest division in the league when they had to be. I would be, I don't know if there's a bet like this, I would be much more surprised if the Patriots won by a lot than if Seattle won by a lot. I mean, I would be. I think Seattle is pretty much better in every way. I don't know about the points, and who knows what happens in any one game. But on form, I mean, New England got pretty lucky in that the game they played in Denver, they were playing against a quarterback who'd never thrown a pass in two years. It seems like they've had an easier path. Do you agree or not? Yeah, of course they've had an easier path. Although they've played against three very good defenses. And generally, they've played against, you know, recently some good defenses, and also in very challenging conditions. but again that's why this is kind of hard because the Patriots have played incredibly well defensively going up to this but you know they haven't placed played the best competition out there we actually did an event uh on Tuesday and we had Christian Kirk come to the event because he's an avid golfer the wide receiver for the Texans and I kind of asked him some questions about the Patriots and the Patriots D and you know he said the Patriots D is no joke they're very good and so you know it'll be interesting to see what happens but i i like getting the points and i think your point is probably valid like in other words if you're betting this game some interesting lines are like alternative lines that you can get where you can get seattle minus like say seven and a half or minus ten and a half yeah and you get you get favorable odds do that so like for a hundred dollars you might win 300 in those situations if that happens so sounds like that as tony kornheiser prognosticator that would be your bet that's in yeah that that Well, I'd be less surprised if Seattle won by a lot than if New England. Wait, so do you sit like on a big couch and interview people? Is that part of the job? In my life right now? No, what you're saying when you talk to this wide receiver at the golf tournament. Well, we did an event at a place called Grass Clippings, which is a light at par three. And one of the things we did for that event is we did like a short game lesson with this guy, Parker McLaughlin who known as the short game chef and he like an incredible short game teacher Yeah the flight lines Yeah and he taught Mark Hubbard who a pro and then also Christian Kirk They did this kind of interactive short game lesson as part of this event So I wasn't sitting on a couch. Okay, all right. But you were interviewing to a degree? No, I wasn't. Parker was doing all the stuff. But I do some of that stuff. But, yeah, I've been talking to some golf agents about maybe doing some speaking events for corporate where I interview golfers and talk about their analytical process. That would be fun. Yeah. That would be good, actually. Do you find golfers to be smart or dopes beyond comprehension most of the time? It goes one way or the other. You know, I don't know. I don't know. I think the smart ones are interesting. I do. But I don't think it helps to be smart. I don't think it helps to be smart in golf. I'm not sure it does. I don't know. I think it helps in your preparation. I don't think it necessarily helps right on the course. We actually kind of asked this to these guys about what their mental preparations were. And then basically they both talked about there being like a trigger. So we were doing a comparison of being a wide receiver in the NFL and being a PGA pro. And the whole idea of there being a trigger that just shuts down your analytical side and just lets your athleticism take place. All right. Good luck with this. We'll talk soon. I enjoy this these three months more than the rest of the show. I really do. I mean, I just think this is fun. Thank you, Jeff. Thanks, Tony. This week's picks with James Carville and Jeff Mob and brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more. And we will come back with email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to The Tony Kornheiser Show. Love that. University of Missouri marching band. Love that. So good. Want to do the Bethesda Bagel Air Force? Hot bagels today. It's great. Very excited about that. Just go to BethesdaBagels.com for the location in the D.C. area nearest you. Then pop one in and you'll be thrilled. Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say, dear sir and madam, will you read my book? It took me years to write. Will you take a look? It's based on a novel by a man named Lear. I need a job, so I want to be... Well, I would add I want to be a newspaper writer, not a paperback writer. Those are the Beatles, of course. Thanks to our guests today, Jeannie McManus, Jason Lock and Ford, James Carville, Jeff Ma. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. If you want to remember, you can listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Odyssey. See, if you get the show through Apple, please leave us a review. Now I need to know more about Gene's approach to Wordle. How many attempts did it take her this morning? Wordle is a big deal. It's a very big deal. I don't do it. I bet she's a winning strategy. I'm not even sure how it works, but everybody loves it. I don't know if Tony remembers this with his limited capacity, but I told Tony about Chris got her up last year before Tony or anybody else heard about him. I walked with him at the Cognizant here at PGA last year, and he missed the cut by one. He was staying across the street at Mirasol at my best friend Richie Katz's house. Since then, he has skyrocketed on the PGA, bought a house in Palm Beach Gardens, and plays out of the Bears Club. Some story. DG. Ball speed doesn't lie. He's leading today, right? He's already won this year. But I'm saying that he's in waste management. He's ahead of the field. Chris Lindsay, Tacoma Park. Chris Lindsay Lee. Loved your stories about meeting Gretzky, LT, Smoltz, and Jordan at Grove 23. Only one thing would have made those days better would have been to run into a fivesome of Wander Swera, Dominic Smith, the Beltway Midiron, Michael A. Taylor, and Lee Smith in the grill room. I would have loved to hear that conversation. Another week or so before Pitchers and Catchers. From Bob Brown, long-time listener since the ESPN Radio Days. First-time emailer. You've been my walking elliptical buddy for years. So on early Tuesday in the morning. What's the resistance? I'm busting tail on the elliptical. You were galious with your trip to Palm Beach Gardens, a place I got to know very well on my college days. You list off the courses you played, the publics you visited. Then you mention your foursome at Grove 23, which includes Greg Feniger. Hey, I know that guy. In the early 1980s, for each spring break, I would pile in a car with three to four college buddies at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, drive down I-75 through the night and arrive at my cousin John's apartment in PBG about 10 a.m. Saturday morning, ready to hit the beach in Lauderdale. At the time, my cousin, an Ohio native, was working on the groundskeeping crew at the golf course at Lost Tree Village, home of another noteworthy Ohio native named Jack. During those years, John shared the apartment with yet another Ohio native who worked with him at Lost Tree, the aforementioned Greg Feniger. John and Greg were gracious hosts putting up with our shenanigans for those weeks and laughing at our beach and bar exploits. However, I think they appreciated the fact we would always purchase enough beer to last well past after we left. Fast forward 40-plus years. Greg is retiring from the superintendent job at Grove 23, and John just retired after 32 years as a superintendent in another nice track known as the Bears Club. Congrats to the two guys who rose to the top of their profession through hard work and perseverance. That's really nice from Bob Brown. Eric Fulton, Rockville, Maryland. So the new game is how many legendary athletes recognize you at another legendary athlete's course? Going to have to sit this one out, Satch. I think I have a better chance of actually being an astronaut. Gary Van Giesen, just had to congratulate you. You finally out-name-dropped Wilbon, which is no easy task. A very good day indeed. It was years in the making. Jamoke Davis, I was on a text chain with Robbie Gould, and I told him I would not watch the skating. It's a Wilbon thing, obviously. Mike Chappett, Aiken, South Carolina, inquiring little's need to know. Were you able to grab a condo in Del Boca Vista? There's still nothing available. Chris G. in Monroe, New York, upstate Just so I get this correct, you had Gretzky introducing you to his son Ran into John Smoltz, you made LT laugh and got to bust Wilbon's chops with MJ But the highlight of your trip was a public sub Come on, what are you doing here, man? Don't forget the soup And the chicken noodle soup It was really good soup, please tell Bruno G to eat it From Adam Haynes, what, no update on nutmeg prices at the Publix? Brett Hobbs, Linton, Indiana Yellowstone turned down my application for summer employment this year I was wondering if your summer intern position is filled yet. What I can bring to the table is a knowledge of Midwest boundaries, thanks to living in Indiana. I own my own gardening tools. I've hunted and killed nine mice in my life. You don't have to worry about paying me as I retired from federal service. So you are in reality paying me anyway. Also, if hired, I can find a way of letting go of a couple of bottles of my 1976 vintage Boone's Farm wine. From Eli Davis in Lakewood, Colorado, on Monday's show, you opened with a riveting CVS story and mentioned their Extra Bucks program and their famed receipt length. I thought, hey, I know that extra bucks program and receipt length. My mother-in-law was a marketing executive at CVS and was part of the team that developed both. I'll volunteer to come on the show to discuss both at length, pun intended. Does that count as a David Aldrich moment if the role is not already taken? Can I be the show's official son-in-law of a former CVS marketing executive? From Kelly Pierce in Alexandria, Louisiana, Chuck and Roxy 408. On Monday's podcast, you said you cannot control your phobias. You cannot control your fears. Well, actually, you can. In fact, you can conquer these phobias and fears even without Xanax. This can be done in a relatively short period of time with some active work with a trained therapist. Michael and Nigel were right. Just start flying more unregularly. I've been practicing psychology for 30-plus years. Maybe we can work something out like bartering with Bethesda bagels. But seriously, the cognitive behavioral therapy that helps overcome phobia may also help with your golf game. On another note, last week my wife and I were visiting my daughter in Savannah, Georgia, where it snowed. We also went to Leopold's Ice Cream and thought about you, Michael and Nigel. Incredibly yummy. If you're golfing in Hilton Head, I highly recommend it. Also, I can have some sent to your home if you like. Just mail me an address. My favorite airport. And that goes on the special pile. Don't offer that if you don't need it. From David Epstein in New York, I loved hearing about your Hall of Fame day. About a decade ago, I had one of my own, albeit a different hall. A few days before Christmas, three friends and I went to lunch at Marea, M-A-R-E-A, a high-end restaurant in Central Park South in Manhattan. We were seated in the back alcove next to one other large empty table, the only empty table in the restaurant. We've been there about 10 minutes when in walked two men, one of whom needed to be identified to me, David Geffen, and one recognizable to all, Bruce Springsteen. The two men chatted a bit and eventually Geffen walked away. We tried not to stare and thought it funny that Bruce would be alone at this large table. We also commented how nice it is in New York City, someone like Bruce could dine and not be bothered by fans. It wasn't more than a minute after we made that remark that much to our chagrin, someone did indeed approach Bruce at that table and engage with him. We were momentarily annoyed until we realized the would-be Acosta was Sting. the two rock stars stood and chatted and we commented to each other about the coincidence of this encounter about five minutes later in walked three women a young woman we didn't recognize trudi styler and patty scoffer by then that's bruce's wife and sting's wife yes by then we of course realized this was no chance encounter as david geffen rejoined the group and this was a high-powered holiday gathering our meals arrived a few minutes later and my friend michael had just raised a fork full of his favorite pasta when his hand literally started shaking motion with his eyes and I realized that standing afoot from us, Nigel called it Monday, Sir Paul McCartney. Paul was literally close enough for me to touch him, but I exhibited at least that much self-control. We spent the rest of our lunch doing three things, eating, trying not to stare, and preventing Michael from sending a bottle of wine to their table. I still haven't made it to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but I do have this going for me, which is nice. Wow. That's better than mine. That's better than mine. Joe Bianchino, Latham, New York. I'm writing this email in my car. My plan was to offer condolences at the loss of the Washington Post sports section in too many ways, the post itself. But then I looked down, I saw my odometer. 25252. That's a good number. By the way, today is 2626. Yes. Yeah, that's a good number. If you are born on that day, like Ron DiGiovanni Jr. Oh, it's his birthday. You have 2626 and you get a happy birthday. This is some Washington Post things that I'm going to read here. From Shad, please accept my condolences on the demise of the Washington Post sports section. I enjoyed reading it for 40 plus years. Brian in Phoenix, this is the second time I've emailed the show, the first time a couple of years ago, to congratulate my baby brother on being named Sports Editor of the Post. As we all know, my brother's time at the Post, along with the rest of the sports department, is coming to an abrupt end. It pains me that his lifelong dream of working for this great paper has been abruptly cut short by people who clearly don't value good journalism. He will be fine as plenty of suitors will come his way, looking to acquire his services. As someone who grew up reading the San Francisco Chronicle, Oakland Tribune, and our local Vallejo Times Herald, really is a shame to see a once great industry suffer such a slow death to the excellent writers editors and staff please hold your heads up high thank you for providing the best stories and professionalism over the years you will all be sorely missed and i wish everyone the best of luck in your future endeavors to my brother jason your friends and family are so very proud of you what you've accomplished the first and only african-american to hold the title of sports out of the washington post you brought great pride to the murray name we can't see what your next act is. That's really sweet from his brother. That's really sweet. Ooh, this is a picture of Marty Zad and Shirley Povich. And this is from Marty's grandson, Marty Zadrovich. The picture below sits on a shelf in my room where I see these two men smiling as I begin and end every day. They remind me to pour myself into my work as they both did for 130 years between the two of them. Seeing them reminds me to give my best to the institution and the people who have trusted me to shepherd it from yesterday to tomorrow. Shirley and Marty and Lenny and George and Sally and so many others like yourself recognize that the Washington Post deserved their best because the institution was bigger than them and they wanted to pass it on to the world better than they found it. The current donors, administrators have not done that. They have failed in their stewardship and they have failed all those who worked so hard before them. I have long, I imagine, wherever they are, Shirley and Marty are smiling like they were at Madison Square Garden where this picture is taking, but they are not smiling now. Scott Michael, Povich, Kornheiser, Kindred, Justice, Wilbon, Boswell, who would rightfully object to me not listing him second. Zverluga, Clark, Culpepper, Jaynes, Lock and Forer, Brewer, Jenkins, the others I missed, the bandwagon, Fight Finished, the best sports section in history. That's nice. I feel like a friend I listened to and got smart every morning for about 50 years has just gone. I am bereft, as I'm sure you are too, from Scott Michael. Yeah, yeah. From the Steve the Sick fan, I'm sure, dear Satch, on Friday you'll have plenty to say about what the Atlantic calls the murder of the Washington Post. Since my stay in the D.C. area from 1979, same as mine, the Post has been a part of my life. Every morning I'd open up the paper and read in order sports style Metro in front, followed by any special sections. I kept a stiff upper lip when you and Wilbon departed, even though things weren't the same. Very recently, I'd barely adjusted to having style sports Metro mushed together. Now with sports apparently killed and the book section acts, it's time to cancel my subscription. I'll never have that feeling of anticipation again when I'd walk out onto the driveway in the morning to grab the post. I'd add a comment about Jeff Bezos, but you couldn't say it on the air. Rest in peace, Washington Post. Andrew in L.A., no clever or amusing salutations today, just profound loss for the sorrow of a great friend. And if I feel this way, what must you be feeling? It'll be almost 80 degrees today in L.A., but I will wear black. That's nice. All of these are nice. If you're out on your bike tonight, everyone, as always, do wear white. Nothing's riding on this except the First Amendment, the Constitution, freedom of the press, and maybe the future of the country. Not that any of that matters, But if you guys f*** up again, I'm going to get mad. From the coast of Spain to the Gulf of Mexico, there's just one place those fish can go. I like sharks. I like their teeth. I like swimming in the deep blue sea. It's hard to breathe when you're under the sun. It's hard to blow when you're wearing a coat. You're not getting cold, don't wear your shoes. I like swimming in the deep blue sea. In Tiradel Pueblo The water is cold as ice In the Hudson River The mercury rises And it feels nice I try not to drink When I'm rising for air I like swimming in the deep blue sea From the coast of space To the Gulf of Mexico There's just one place Those fish can't go I like sharks I like the teeth I like swimming in the deep blue sea Thank you.