From WQXR and Carnegie Hall comes classical music happy hour, a new podcast hosted by me, pianist Maniacs. Each episode will speak with a special guest, listen to musical gems, play music-inspired games, and answer questions from our listeners. The first episode drops March 4th. Listen on the NPR app. Hey, everybody. It's Robin Hilton from All Songs Considered, with something special for your weekend. It's an interview with Mitski, with the singer Mitski. Mitski just put out one of the year's best albums, I think, so far. It's called Nothing's About to Happen to Me. You might have heard us talk about it on a recent episode of New Music Friday with World Cafe host Reina Duras. World Cafe, the podcast, the radio show, has tons of live performances and interviews every month, including recent ones with Rat Boys, Sam Beame of Iron and Wine, and this one that we're sharing here with Mitski. Reina spoke with Mitski at the power station in New York City, where they talked about the new album, about the pressures Mitski felt while making the record, and some of the unintentional left turns she took while recording it. Mitski also performed four songs live for this episode, and that's where we're going to start. We begin with a live performance of the song Where's My Phone? again from the album Nothing's About to Happen to Me. And if you want to know more about World Cafe, we've got a link you can check out in the notes for this episode in your feed. night is like you can't show hold until tomorrow the dog I need that love, love, love, love, love Performed live by Mitski for World Cafe. That is where's my phone. It's from her new album Nothing's About to Happen to Me. My name is Breanna Duris. Mitski is my guest today on World Cafe. Mitski, welcome back to the World Cafe. Hi, last time it was in Philly, wasn't it? It was in Philly. That is right. And here we are in New York City, the big apple. The, uh, yeah. Where's my phone is a sentence I have uttered probably like a humiliating number of times in my life. Usually I say that when I'm in a bit of a panic or I'm sort of overwhelmed and I want to start there because in that song there's a lot of there are layers. There's a lot going on. What kind of scene were you visualizing when you wrote this one? So, um, Actually this the songwriting started just with where's my phone because I was saying it too. I was saying it over and over where's my phone? Where's my phone? And I just started humming a melody and it just became like I just started singing it to myself. I decided to keep it record it once I found my phone. Um, and I think once I had that snippet I was like I wonder what I could do with it. And I think what I wanted to express was this sense of, um, I tend to disassociate a lot and this sense of like wanting to disassociate not wanting to be here. Everything being overwhelming and sort of like going, ah, where's my phone? And like everything is too much. Um, and I just want to I want to like leave my brain. I want to go into my phone. I want to just like not be here. So that's kind of the general feeling and I think that's why there's such cacophony in the track because I wanted to express how much express the overwhelm that I was trying to get out of and get away from. Right. Like the guitars the first few times I listened to this song I was like, oh my speaker's broken and I listened to somewhere else and I was like, oh my headphones are also broken. That's what we want to do. But I realized it was on purpose. Um, and those guitars they show up throughout the album. They're also joined by the orchestra. Um, I know originally guitars were supposed to be more front and center. What was the original motivation for wanting to strip things down to kind of a rock band sound at the beginning? Um, I don't maybe it's incorrect to say this the first word that comes to mind is like, um I think I was having a bit of like a musical midlife crisis where I was just like I want to get back to basics. I want to get back to my roots. I want to get back to like the feeling I had of like playing DOI shows punk shows and I was just trying to channel that. Um And I was really I really wanted it to be this like stripped down just band instrument just guitar bass drums and voice and showcase the the songwriting and have it feel rough. Um, And then we demoed it and the songs said no The songs were like we don't care what you want this to be This is what we actually are. Well, we're gonna hear the song You're gonna perform the song in a lake, but you don't have the orchestra here right now We could play a bit of that From the album so we can hear the orchestra. I'll play a clip of that right now. Here's in a lake So that's a bit of in a lake from your new album it's me and we can hear the orchestra in there and so I mean, what do you think it is about these songs? That made it feel right to put them on I think it's a little bit of a It's a little bit of a It's a little bit of a It's a little bit of a It's a little bit of a It's a little bit of a It's a little bit of a Made it feel right to put them on when you say they were asking for orchestra um, I don't want to sound woo-woo, but I really do believe that like Songs all have their own life and you can try to like shoehorn them into what you want them to be But at a certain point they just sort of reveal themselves And they they tell you what how best to make them sound um, for example in a lake Um, which we just played I think it started more as like just a Guitar song. Yeah, and and the recording also starts just kind of as like a like a guitar band song Um, it was very much influenced by being in Nashville You know, it's a very country music city pop country and there's a lot of songs about like Living in a small town small towns are the best. I love my small town and that's nice for you But for people who don't fit in sometimes tiny communities Can be really terrible to live in When you're someone who just can't seem to follow the prescribed rules of a community or can't seem to understand Why those are the rules? So anyway, I'll just say it started out just as more like a almost like a Americana like folk song with just guitar and some You know again stripped down But then we thought well In a big city like what if there's like a soundscape where once the protagonist Enters the big city that's being talked about we hear All the people and the noise and like everything that comes with living in a big city being surrounded by people No longer being in your tiny community. You can like be anonymous, but But in a good way, you know, especially when you're someone who always stuck out you love I shouldn't say you I remember coming to New York and being like wow, I'm anonymous and that was amazing um, and I think the orchestra all the various um instrumentalists that we got like just helps to illustrate that story better And I think that's kind of what happened with a lot of the songs where it's just like it just doesn't feel right It feels like something's missing. It feels like we're not painting the whole picture And it and it just ended up needing a full orchestra. What can I say? Yeah, yeah Well, now we're gonna hear you without the orchestra. Yes. Yes. Also very good. Uh, this is in a lake. It's live for world cafe. This is I'd never live in a small town I've made too many mistakes For you gotta write your book early or it gets written up in your place Where you never get away from your first love it's like one brand of soap sold in town Anyone you can get close to smells like your first time around But in a lake you can backstroke forever The sky before you the dark right behind Any big city you can start over And Everywhere you go makes your heart ache where you've done enough walks of shame Some days you just go the long way to stay off of memory lane So I'd never live in a small town I'm slow to learn all the rules I've tried very hard to be good But when they think you're bad people act worse But in a lake you can backstroke forever The sky before you And the dark behind And in a big city you can start over The lights all around you the dark safe inside In a big city you can start over And This message comes from Y's the app for international people using money around the globe you can send spend and receive And up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Be smart. Get Y's Download the Y's app today or visit y's dot com tees and seas apply so When I heard that your new album was influenced by Shirley Jackson's novel we have always lived in the castle I had never read it. I went out. I got it. I read it. I did And I haven't stopped thinking about it Since I read it a couple weeks ago Uh, it's I guess maybe really quickly for people who have not read it. I'm going to try to like summarize this It's about two sisters whose family have died in a mysterious poisoning. The villagers think the sisters did it So they're outcasts. They live in this big house where they are isolated and it's narrated by the younger sister maricat Those are very very broad strokes here I'm wondering What was it about this story and that character or or those characters? That captured your imagination Well, I think and these are all like very much Shirley Jackson themes too. Shirley Jackson is my favorite author She has a lot of themes about Distrust of groups of people she was the one who wrote the lottery which some people, you know might have read in school um I think she has a lot of characters who are very much in their minds and don't fit in And if you've read we have always lived in the castle You might side-eye me for saying this but I really did relate to maricat I don't think that's that's that weird. I in a way like I think She there is something relatable about her. Yeah, she's got this Like your interior life that is very rich and you are kind of along for the ride with her You know, yeah, and she is she's an outcast and in the book there's a lot about like ritual. She has these rituals To make sure that things go okay, and it's very like compulsive she You know ritualistically bury something in the yard and that and says Certain string of words and that means that this won't happen that that means that my family will be okay and I feel like I relate to that kind of like anxiety and just like being suspicious of groups of outsiders who don't like you and who are Trying to encroach on your space and you're just trying to like protect yourself and your family in in your home And there's a lot of themes that I just like related to broadly and I don't know what this says about me, but But I think also that ritual thing it's like there's a a bit of I wish I could kind of control What these things that are happening. Yeah, that's a good point. There's so much about like And I think this is a theme for me and therefore my music of just like Not feeling in control and therefore trying to find control where like where I can yeah and inevitably failing because So much about life you just can't it's out of your control and you just have to go with it But it's it's really difficult when when you're someone who just like Who needs things to be a certain way who has anxiety who you know Wants wants to know what's going to happen. Yeah. Yes. Yes She does Maricat has one confidant kind of Is her cat Jonas and cats appear all over this new album. There's a song cats. There's that white cat There's also the visuals for this record which Include a white cat with one blue eye and one brown eye or like I think they call those odd-eyed cats For you, what does the cat represent? Why did you want to include that? I mean on a very surface level? I just love them um On a deeper level, I think I kind of made cats the mascot of this album because I think Cats are very feminized creatures. I think people think of dogs as boys and cats as girls Absolutely. I don't know where that comes from But in addition to that people think of dogs as good and cats as evil It's very interesting what we're doing here. Um With like symbolism of dogs and cats. I think I think The reason why a lot of people love dogs but hate cats or demonize cats is because dogs Dogs can learn obedience Dogs follow a chain of command dogs are pack animals dogs have um Various hierarchies They do have boundaries, but they don't express them In the same way that cats do cats don't know anything about obedience. It's not in their In their vocabulary cats Just say okay. If I do this for you. What's in it for me? You know like if will I enjoy this? Yeah, if I won't I'm not gonna do it if I enjoy it Yeah, let's do it. Um, it's not that they're cold. It's not that they don't like people It's just that they have boundaries. I know from experience Cats love you wholeheartedly cats like being around people and other cats sometimes depending on the cat But they're red I think people read them like they would read dogs and then cats Ultimately come up short when you try to impose dog law onto cats. Hey, look I fell asleep with my cat on my belly last night and she bit me this morning. So yes Yeah, and I just I feel like there's something there to like Cats being feminized cats being considered to be girls And also being hated or demonized for not being obedient Right, there's I just felt like there was something there and there's thematically something there for the album It comes back to that sort of outsiders Yes of Yeah, and not and not being The right kind of quote unquote woman, you know, sure. Yeah Back to that interior life The next song that we're going to hear you play is if I leave Where the narrator seems to hold a secret that no one knows there's this imagery of a dark tunnel And we've been talking about the influence of we've always lived in the castle This song does seem like it could tie into it But for you, where does this song find the character in the story that you are telling with this album? I think it's based in anxiety the song Broadly, I mean I hate to be prescriptive about About what songs are about because I do want people listening to make their own meaning out of songs I think that's that's the best part about music. But with that said If you are okay with hearing my intention, um It's broadly about Holding on to somebody so tight because that one person has Seem to have accept you seem to have supported you and feeling like Still being your mentally ill self Still having all the trouble you have and thinking Maybe it's better if I leave this person alone if I go away um, but I can't because then if I do I lose my person But also what is what am I doing to this person that I'm clinging on to them so tight? Is this really an equal relationship or is this codependent like all of these different thoughts about If I leave this person, what'll happen to me? What'll happen to them? Um, and I think there's a sense of like anxiety that permeates the rest of the album too of just like There's there's something wrong with me the world knows it and the world tells me there's something wrong with me And in this song it says well, there's this one person who seems to accept me What happens if I lose this person and would it be better if they lost me? Right, so that that's kind of broadly well, it's all underlined by those sort of uh, like the grungy guitars that come back in that are kind of anxiety provoking when you hear them We're gonna hear you perform it before we do. I just want to compliment you on being able to put the word colleagues Into a song and make it sound so beautiful Here's mitski performing if I leave live for world cafe If I leave Somebody else will love you But nobody else could forgive me quite as often as you No one on this street knows No one in this mall knows No one in this bar Or And none of my friends know Surely none of my colleagues More to my family If I leave Somebody else will find you But nobody else could see me quite as clear as you You I've let only you know How I ride through a tunnel and it's dark the whole way I ride through a tunnel. It's been dark the whole way. I ride through a tunnel. It's still dark the whole way I couldn't lose you How could I lose you? I couldn't lose you For if I lost it Somebody else will cheer you But who else could love me quite as kindly as you Who could love me quite as kindly as you You This message comes from wise the app for international people using money around the globe You can send spend and receive and up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps be smart get wise Download the wise app today or visit wise.com tees and sees apply So much on this album and in the book that we were talking about you know involves isolation having a secret safe world The outside world seeing you differently and it has me wondering, you know Everyone has their personal self and their public self But as a person in the public eye the space between those two selves might feel a little bit faker maybe a little bit more fragmented How much energy does it take to cultivate the public self? Thank you Wow what a question. Um, it takes a lot of energy. Um, I don't I'm introverted. So it's it's kind of just like Who you are when you go to a party? But times one thousand like who you make yourself to be around other people Um But the other people are the entire world So that's kind of how it feels and the thing is I don't think I am like being somebody else in public But again, it goes back to like the who you are at a party kind of situation where it's just like you are still yourself You're not pretending to be somebody else But you're kind of heightening a certain certain aspects of yourself so that They can Navigate being among all these different people. Yeah um And then you go home and you Take all your clothes off And unwind and stare at a wall for a while. So yeah, yeah recently I talked to Florence welch of lorzomachine Who you worked on her latest album and she Talks about that feeling of being devoured as a woman and as a performer and especially when she was younger And I thought back to that conversation as soon as I heard your song dead women on this album Um, I want to play a clip of that song Is there any insight you could give us into writing it? I wrote it in anger. I know it doesn't sound like an angry song But there's a sort of like resigned anger. I think um And I again You can take whatever you want from this song But when I was writing it, it just felt like the world was telling me the only good woman is a dead one We want you dead We want you dead on the inside. We don't want you to be a whole person Um, we want you to be um a baby making servant. You have no other purpose. You can't have dreams You can't have volition of your own you exist to serve and if you have um an inner life Well, don't don't have it be dead inside and that's what people that's what the world seems to want of women um, and I was also reflecting on like the glee with which people consume It's dark but like true crime the the glee with which people consume dead women. Um the fetishization of dead women and I was thinking about especially public figures like Marilyn Monroe or um Going back to even like silvia plath for example when I learned that silvia plaths after she died her husband who was abusive was in charge of compiling all her Her poems for a certain collection a posthumous collection and he decided to take out All the poems that are about how he's terrible and just include the parts that make her sound crazy And put it in a compilation I forgot with the name of the book but I when I learned that and then I looked more into like their relationship and I I I don't know I don't know how it connects But it feels like it all connects where it's just like my god like you don't you don't want women to be full complex human beings you don't want us to be to have inner lives you don't want us to be You just want us to be dead women serving you you just want to take cherry pick the poems that we have that you like Put it in a compilation and go See how pleasing she was. Yeah, I it just it's a lot. It's a lot of things I tried to put in this one song. Yeah, once they're dead you can control their image. Exactly. Exactly. And you get to like I don't know if if He's still in turn to there the the man who asked to be buried um On top of maryland run Monroe. I didn't do you know about that? No, she's in I forgot what they're called like the mausoleum A mausoleum. Um, yeah, I think it's a mausoleum. I don't know the term for it. Yeah, but they're like, you know, right stacked up and he Um asked to be buried On top of her and facing down Ew and so that even in her death She cannot get away from a man being on top of her against her will It's just and that and that those stories over and over and over and over again just Complete keep reinforcing that like, okay, you don't you don't want us to be people You just want us to be fembots that serve you I'm gonna play some of the song. It's called dead women. This is miski on world cafe Would you have liked me better if I died? So you could tell my story the way it ought to be You'd find my parents and I ask to see my face Right full through it all fill the blanks with what you need That was a bit of dead women from mitzgis latest album nothing's about to happen to me on world cafe Your live show when I saw you touring your last album the land is inhospitable and so are we very meticulously planned I was very choreographed. It was beautiful. I saw it at a venue in philly called the met It's a big theater on this tour. You're playing some different kinds of venues Including the hollywood high school in la which is a literal high school What were you looking for as far as venues for this tour? Well, it goes back to um my very first intentions for this album even though We ended up adding a whole bunch of orchestra and other instruments at at its core the the intention was I want to get back to the feeling that I had 10 years ago or earlier 15 years ago where I felt like I was in a room with a few people and we were really connecting And and it felt more raw and it felt more, you know Right down to basics both in terms of performance and gear and everything But also like the basics of human interaction just like being in the room with someone connecting um, and I was trying to recreate that feeling Using the various places we're performing where I wanted it to feel special. I wanted it to feel like an experience I wanted to recreate even the feeling that I had going to shows going to diy shows punk shows where I was like this I feel like i'm getting something i'm I feel like i'm experiencing something Really important for myself. I think i'm experiencing something that Is not like anything else and i'm going to remember, you know, like going Going to an abandoned firehouse and like watching a band, you know, and I kind of You know, obviously the scale is different But I wanted to recreate that feeling of like I'm I feel like I'm having an experience Well, I'm curious about that because I don't I don't want you to give anything away but What are the logistics like when you're trying to do something at this scale but in a place like a high school I think you should ask my manager that because it seemed terrible. I feel really bad actually um God bless them Here the last song that we're going to hear you perform is called I'll change for you it has a line I really love bars such magic places. You can be with other people without having anyone at all I think there are some people out there who might think oh, it's sad to go drown your sorrows at a bar But I also think there's kind of a deliciousness to wallowing Could you tell us why you wrote this song? Thank you for saying that there is a deliciousness to wallowing There really is and I I mean that's kind of why I wrote the song because Listen we we have songs that encourage you when you're down You know pick yourself up It's going to be okay and those songs really serve an important purpose But I feel like when I'm really self pitting and I'm I'm feeling down what I want is a song That goes poor me, you know poor me um How terrible is this I'm having a terrible time. I'm heartbroken like in those moments I feel like there should be songs for um being pitiful and pathetic Um because those are real things that people experience and that's okay Um, and it's not like you're going to be there forever, but when you're in that Why not like fully experience it? So that's kind of I I was writing for If nothing else myself in those moments. Yeah, I also think there's something kind of refreshing about hearing a woman sing about that because And this is kind of a through line through this conversation But the expectations are different of a man wallowing and drinking away as sorrows at a bar Is sort of romanticized and right is because you're sad as a lady Yeah, go home you eat your pint of ice cream in front of the tv watch a romcom and you cry and I don't think that's necessarily true for everybody. Yeah, which by the way speaking of romcoms I remember even being a kid watching romcoms from like the early 2000s And there was this like You have to I was like you really have to pick yourself up real fast because like they would the woman would get broken up with And a week later her best friend characters would be like you got to get back out there date another guy And it's just like it's only been a week. My god. Let her just be sad for a little bit Let her recover and it was just like I feel like there was um That kind of mentality in the early 2000s in the 90s of just like you don't get to be sad It's pathetic to be sad go out there and have sex. Yeah Yeah, stop being dead weight. Yeah, exactly sitting around It might be a song about feeling pathetic or being pathetic, but the actual music doesn't sound like quote-unquote sad, right? Could you tell us about the contrast that you created here using kind of a bossa nova beat? Well, it goes back to like the just luxuriating and wallowing I wanted to create this atmosphere of like you're wallowing but you're in a bar and maybe it's a nice bar and I wanted it to sound like music that would be playing while you're wallowing and and you're and you're kind of swaying and you're like You know, this sadness feels really nice you know and being among people and just kind of like weirdly enjoying your depression in a nice place um, and so that kind of like Woozy nice feeling I wanted to add to the song If you're listening whether you're sad or not you can wallow in it right now This is mitzgis with I'll change for you perform live for world cafe How Do I let our love die? When you're the only other keeper Of my most precious memories Yeah I've been drinking Why is that gotta mean I can't call you about you and me I For you to love me again If you Don't like me I will change for you Bars such magic places You Can be Without They say they're closing So Watching all the cars passing by like a kid waiting for my ride For you to love me again If you Don't like me I will change for you Change for you I Live for world cafe mitzgis I'll change for you it's a song from her new album nothing's about to happen to me Mitski is my guest today. It's been so much fun talking to you. Thank you so much for being on the show Thank you for having me. It was so fun. I love it. Thank you. Thank you
