High Church Anglicans, Jews, Evangelicals, & America | Ephesians 6:1-4

Ephesians chapter 6 verses 1 through 4 the Bible says this, Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor thy father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise, that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. And ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. This is the word of the Lord. Welcome back to another episode of Right Response Ministries podcast. Today, we are going to be reading a tweet that Oren McIntyre, he has actually spoken at one of our conferences in the past, and we appreciate a lot of his content. He posted something just recently in the last week or so that I thought was really insightful. We have lots of Catholic friends that we appreciate very much, that we consider to be irreplaceable co-belligerents when it comes to fighting the political and cultural battles for the salvation of our country today. America is under attack, and we need every fighting man that we can possibly get. but historically speaking there has been quite the conflict between protestants and catholics and that you know is a part of even our history in america and the zionist component the protestant component the catholic component and then the evangelicals coming out of mainline protestants All these four pieces, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, the WASP particularly, and then evangelicals as a modern aberration of Protestantism here in America. these four pieces on the board and the way that they transpired over the last 250 years explains a lot about why we have some of the problems that we have today in america and perhaps gives us a clue on what some of the solutions may be so this is from orn mcintyre he posted it let's see he posted april 11th april 11th okay so not that long ago april 11th this is what he said there's a lot going on here and most of it is highly controversial and uncomfortable but without looking at the difficult stuff we can't see the whole board so strap in america was founded predominantly by anglo-protestants fact check true catholics were here since the beginning and they even got maryland but that didn't go so well and reverted to protestant control the american ruling class was dominated by high church anglos so they were protestant but this isn't pastor billy bob you know in a renovated you know bowling alley this is high church protestants think episcopalians think anglicans some presbytunians it would have been creedal they would have used things like liturgical calendar now some of the puritans laid all of those things aside but on the anglican and episcopalian which is the american version of of anglicanism though it would have been high church in that regard right so liturgical clerical robes uh angels in the architecture you know high vaulted ceilings cathedrals all these kinds of things uh observing the church calendar high church um protestant christians and they particularly flourished in your cities like philadelphia and new york these highly metropolitan areas lots of money they were ascendant they were the dominant they were the elite class those metropolitan areas whereas you more Lutherans they were pushed out into the rural areas that Germans typically settled in. Yep so the ruling class was dominated by high church Anglos when the first big waves of Irish, German, and Italian immigration arrived they were Catholic mostly Catholic. The ethnic and religious tensions then began much like Indian immigrants do today Catholics took over urban hubs and used machine politics to turn government jobs into ethnic cartels. Catholic neighborhood form. Catholic schools segregate out the new minorities and allow them to retain their culture and faith. We also start to see significant Eastern Europe immigration, which is why America has more Jews here than Israel actually does in their specifically Jewish ethno-state. That's worth noting. There are more Jews, ethnic Jews in America than there are in the state of Israel. This is how we got the Know-Nothings. It's a political chapter. This is how we got the Know-Nothings, which they were kind of quintessentially known by beware of foreign influence. Catholics will follow their king in Rome, that their loyalty will lie elsewhere and not here locally in America. Most people think of the KKK as an organization that tormented black Americans, but it was mainly a Protestant reaction to Catholic and Jewish immigration. Catholic and Jewish diasporas were able to control local urban politics, but found it difficult to break into the higher echelon because the ruling class remained white Anglo-Saxon Protestants, that is the Wasps, and they were uninterested in handing power to newcomers. This is why you heard so much about Catholics and Jews being excluded from country clubs where Wasps did most of the real politics. The mainline Protestant denominations held the ruling class, but evangelical low-church Protestantism began to sweep through the heartland of America. The ruling class might have been Anglican slash Episcopalian, but evangelicals had the passion and they had the numbers. Jews were already not huge fans of Catholics for reasons that should be obvious by this point, and evangelicals adopted this novel form of theology called dispensationalism that featured the Jews prominently as a chosen people to be protected and to whom a homeland was owed if Jesus was ever to return. Evangelicals are also very politically convenient because, and this is key, while they have the numbers and accumulated wealth to be very politically useful, they had no interest in ruling. They saw ruling as some kind of compromise, something that would taint the purity of religious zeal. Many evangelicals even began to believe that holding power is against their religion altogether and are very amenable to handing power to another ruling class. So, you start to see an evangelical slash Jewish axis form in American politics to unseat the wasps and freeze out the Catholics. Dispensationalism was key to securing support for the founding of Israel, and Jewish allies here are very aware of how important it is to keep evangelicals the dominant Christian force in American politics. But as America continued to experience unprecedented levels of legal and illegal immigration, it didn't just shift the ethnic makeup, but the religious composition as well. When foreigners are Christian instead of, say, Muslim or Hindu, they are not typically evangelical. They're Catholic or Orthodox. and then he put in parentheses, sorry, Catholic bros, but America isn't getting more Catholic. It's getting more foreign and less American. And that is true. There have been, to qualify, I would say in the last three to five years, there has been an upsurge and actual conversions to Catholicism, predominantly when it's an actual conversion, somebody's leaving evangelicalism, Protestantism to become Catholic here in America, it tends to be young white men. Aside from that recent uptick in conversions from young white men moving from evangelical Protestant to Catholicism, which is relatively recent, just in the last five years or so, most of the trend towards Catholicism before then, and even now in America, has not been Protestants converting to Catholicism, but rather America slowly killing itself with mass immigration. And so it's typically not a bunch of white people converting to Catholicism, but a bunch of foreigners coming in who are already Catholic. And so it's simply undeniable that we have to admit America has become more Catholic in direct correlation to America becoming more brown. And it's also worth noting there are a lot of Catholics that are leaving the Catholic faith. what a lot of that is is I was baptized in Catholic church maybe I did confirmation never stuck with it so some people will say okay maybe there's increased like 38 percent increase in baptisms on Easter look the Catholic church is growing but don't you know that every you know one in eight are leaving Catholicism a lot of that is your cradle conversions we'll talk about this your 70s your 80s 90s never attended Catholic church finally just putting down in the census I have no religion whatsoever so there's a lot of that exit there's some inflow but that's what's really going on when it says exiting, not necessarily a mass exodus of young people took their face seriously and now are like, ah, I'm converting to Hinduism. Right. So America has for a few decades now become increasingly Catholic in large parts. Um, again, I gave the qualifier in the recent years, there's been some conversion and I would say significant conversion among young white men to Catholicism. Um, but proceeding that and ongoing throughout that, um, the bigger factor has been immigration. So America is becoming more Catholic as it's also becoming less American. It's more brown. It's becoming more brown, more foreign people. And because these are foreigners, Zionism is not innate to Catholicism, religiously speaking. It's also very, very foreign to pretty much every single nation in the world, except for America. Zionism is predominantly, it's a a modern phenomenon, religiously speaking, almost unique, exclusive to evangelicals. And then nationally speaking, it's pretty much exclusive to America. A lot of European countries are not really, I mean, Italy just recently was like, we're kind of done with Israel. They'll tip the hat, a little Holocaust remembrance, but really other than that, they're just. So even like white European countries are not nearly as gung-ho about our greatest ally as Americans. And then when you pan outside of Western countries and you begin to look at non-white countries in Africa and South America and Asia, they really don't give a crap. And really the success of dispensationalism, I've said it before, I'll say it again, relates to the world events that happened as the time that that theology hit the mainstream consciousness of evangelicals. So evangelicals are hearing about the end times. They see Israel return to the land. You have Hall Lindsay's late great planet Earth. You have the Cold War. You have nukes. I mean, I understand the person that put their newspaper down, picked up their Scofield reference Bible, and started connecting the dots and saying, I think we're almost there. The success, the growth of dispensationalism, and now it's dying out, I think almost has entirely to do with the events of the 20th century that encourage that kind of reading of scripture, that kind of hermeneutic, that kind of focus on the end times, but just in the way it had a boon, it grew because events are also going to be the thing as time goes on that leads to its death. Yeah, I was going to just add to that. If we think about the emergence of dispensationalism, John Nelson Darby toward the back half of the 19th century, I think a little bit of historical context here in the American schema is that post-Civil War, you basically had the South basically looking toward the North with this anti-Yankee sentiment. So they're looking at all of the high church, you know, a blue blood wasp in the mainline churches and those sorts of things. And they already have a inclination to distrust them, to be averse to authority, particularly from the north. And so what you see emerge in the south, even pre-dispensationalism, is it's this kind of conservative, southern aristocratic form of Christianity that's more or less detached. And remember, even Oren's tweet here, it references it, but there was certainly like an anti-Jewish sentiment in the South. And so when dispensationalism actually emerges in the South, it doesn't dissipate cultural prejudices. It favored this kind of literal interpretation, me and my Bible, that had already emerged as a context. And then it favored that as an interpretation of there being an actual plan for Israel. And then to your point, so they start to believe this, I guess, supposed theologically, but they actually, it hadn't actually manifested in the way that they thought about Jews in America. There were still more or less prejudiced against them. But as to Wes's point, as the 20th century emerges and you see the nation state of Israel actually become, then it was the ground bed for that kind of theology to take root politically, to take root socially, and that's where we're at today. And so I would say again, first, and this is my interpretation of history, American history is first, you see this Southern Northern divide. It creates a branch or a flavor of Christianity that was distinct from mainline Protestantism. There was more blue collar. It created blue collar Christianity that had the zeal and the passion but did not necessarily have the credibility the intellectualism of the mainline Protestants on the East Coast Philadelphia And they actually, in a lot of ways, despised that. So they despised the seminaries, especially at the turn of the 20th century, as they start to see these seminaries become more liberal. It was starting to become the social gospel through the 19th Amendment and those sorts of things. The Puritans within decades were fighting apostasy, drunkenness, gambling, not within 200 years, within just decades, the Northeast, and some of that's due to industry. It's due to the amount of immigration that came in. It's due to foreign trade. It really apostatized, you could say, pretty quickly. I mean, there were some seminaries like Harvard. Harvard was universalist in the 1800s. It wasn't as though that just happened 50 years ago. Almost from their inception, they were theologically liberal. And it took time. It took down Princeton. It took down Yale. The infection spread to your other seminaries in the South. But the North very quickly apostatized, for lack of a better term. So the South is looking at this with this inherent distrust of the seminarians and things like, this is where you get the context of lay preachers, Bible conferences, all of these things that have become so quintessential to the, you know, that think of the Southern Baptist Convention or just Southern evangelicalism. All of these things actually start to emerge in the 19th century. And so when dispensationalism seeps into this context, one, it takes root first theologically and then historical events. Because a lot of these people were not highly educated. Correct, yeah. So they had, that's my point is they had the passion, the zeal. I think these people, genuine believers, salt of the earth, but they're blue collar Christians who really love Jesus and really have grown to despise formalities. Like, no, let's get back to the heart of worship. I'm coming back to the heart of worship. You know, like, let's, you know, and like, don't call me, you know, Mr. Williams. That's my dad's name. Call me John. You know, like, and they kind of despise and break away from their father's generation of you know the institutional credibility and all these because they see it as compromised and they see it i think in large part as hypocrisy um it's like yeah dad holds the levels of levers of power and uh and he's in the great banqueting halls and at all the feasts and the chief seats and all that kind of stuff but he's kind of a crappy dad the silver is mine and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts. Yet your retirement dollars keep shrinking daily as Washington prints money out of thin air. Genesis Gold Group aligns financial guidance with godly principles when others serve only profit. Their faith-centered approach to gold IRAs stands apart in an industry that has forgotten what true stewardship actually means. Why gamble your family's future on Wall Street's paper promises. Your 401k and IRA deserve better protection. 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Now, the subtitle reads this, an everyday guide for Christian patriarchs. And that's precisely what this book is. Now, I'll tell you what this book is not. It's not a Bible study. It's not a devotional. And it's not a boring retread book about leadership or leveling up. No, this book is designed to get you thinking about how to seize more ground and then bring it under good governance. Now, most men are not aware that our mandate is to build civilization right where we are with a winning culture. We tend to want to outsource that responsibility or just try to get more comfortable. But that is not what our lives are to be about, gentlemen. Regardless of how many talents our master gave us, we should be making moves to see an increase in all spheres of our lives. One day he will return and ask for our reports. So this book is about all that. It's about governing your heart, household, and enterprise so that the kingdom of God advances. On Ruling is a great book for group study with you and your fellow men, or perhaps even something that you can read in the deer stand. So go and get On Ruling now from Western Front Books at the link below. that's www.westernfrontbooks.com he's austere i think uh woodrow wilson he's not real he was his he was actually the son of a presbyterian minister actually visited his home in virginia um i did a tour there we get it you're better than us you're just you're laying it on thick i'm a bit of a history buff but uh his father was a presbyterian minister and his recollection of his father was just austere, like very severe, strict man, reading. It was just reading in his office all the time. And then contrast that with the Southern aristocratic way of life, this warm, congenial, bustling home, dancing in the home. And so I think for a lot of these men, they look towards these like more the high church, you know, and they said, that's too, that's not our culture. That's not, that's not something that we mesh with. And so this is like, again, SBC, you had a great tweet about this, by the way, but evangelicalism is this just having embodied this warm, hospitable American flavor. Because the Germans brought with them the pietism of Lutheranism and it meshed with the Anglican or the, the wasp preaching and revival tradition. So it was revivalism, the emphasis on the new birth, which is quintessential to American evangelicalism, paired with the good works of Lutheran pietism to produce, these are the evidence of my salvation, a continual refreshing of, have I been born again? Am I demonstrating fruit? Producing, especially in the South with that mix of the German and the Anglo, both Protestant, might I add, produces this very warm, very inviting, very hospitable, very nonjudgmental, white people are also the best at this, at just being very open, very inclusive, very welcoming to all of that produce one of the most christian regions in the world especially in the 19th century and also just one of the best places to live right yeah you see like a dolphin that's you know like you know stuck on the beach you know came up with the tide or something like that and you'll see videos you know it's like all these people helping it back into the water you know you'll see the caption it'll say random acts of whiteness you know like and it's true it's like i mean that happens in haiti they chop the dolphin up and eat it you know right like i even like even the infatuation obviously you know western white countries have gone too far to where now it's like okay you care about your pets more than you care about children in the womb right so it's not to say that there there aren't massive massive failures but that is kind of a like an innately white thing like it's unique to to white people to uh care deeply about the environment to care deeply about animals to care like this this warm hospitality i think that that's absolutely true and undeniable culturally and historically. But with it, Antonio makes a great point that I think there was a warmth and a hospitality and a zeal and an authenticity, a real, genuine article. But with it came an aversion to anything that even had the smell of hypocrisy, pomp and circumstance, pretense, formality that wasn't genuine under the surface. And so there was a breaking away from the quintessential WASP, Episcopalian, Anglican ruling class, politically ruling class, and the institutions and the schools and academia and the halls of politics and those kinds of things, breaking away from that and saying, we want just the real deal and aversion to power. and power is something that only corrupts and so all of a sudden you have um this this growing class in the heartland and in the south of evangelicals who are truly like salt of the earth blue-collar christians who they they love them some jesus they really do but they despise like when someone begins to you know this is where the old mantras of like the tropes of like uh doctrine divides you know and they're just like just just be real and you know uh kiss keep it simple stupid you know like um that kind of stuff and and and seeing you know ruling as as a um as an achilles heel to uh true zeal genuine zeal for jesus and so they as they grew in numbers they had the vote um but they had no interest in ruling and jews being despised by catholics who have never have been zionists and there's a long european history of jews being kicked out by all the catholic monarchs and for you know often for good reason um you know but that that wasn't going to be an alliance that was going to happen the jews weren't going to go and knock on the catholic's door and say hey it's us the jews your best buds like the catholics you know would have been like take a hike um and the wasp they they were skeptical of the jews as well they knew their history. They also knew the theology. They weren't susceptible to modern, you know, heresies, you know, of dispensational. Surveys of World War II men, the majority of respondents said they didn't trust Jews. They viewed them as slackers in the military. So this was surveys of men in the military. They didn't trust them or like them. So the WASP, that was out of the question. They weren't going to take the Jews. The Catholics, that was out of the question. They weren't going to take the Jews. But the evangelicals soon began to dwarf both the Catholics and the WASP in terms of raw numbers, but they had this one unique quality. They're the sweetest people on earth, hospitality, welcoming, warm, and also no desire whatsoever to rule. And I think that's because the men- And the Jewels are like, we'll take care of that for you. The men bore the brunt of World War I, the Great Depression, and World War II. So by the time the World War II generation comes home of these Anglo and these German men that had gone and fought, they were tired. They didn't care. They didn't want to be involved. So the women are, they're dragging them to church. They're making them go to potluck. And they actually are probably the more defining, hospitable element of the South. The Southern woman that bakes you a pie, bless your heart. The men check out, vacuum of power. And also Jews were very influential in media and entertainment. So you have a bunch of men that want nothing more than just work their nine to five, come home, be entertained by the television. Well, Jews, very involved in media, have begun producing music. They've begun producing Hollywood and shows. And at the time, it's benign. It's not subversive. It's not charged the way it is now. So there's a lot of love and appreciation for these guys that are bringing you movies. They're not the sixth redo of the story of Moses or the story of Noah. And so there's an appreciation for Jews and media because they provide the entertainment. There's an absence of care for power. You have this perfect storm for evangelicals to capitulate, to buy in and to be hoodwinked. Yep. So going on, finishing up with Oren's tweet here, he said, so these immigrants who came to America, the Irish, the Italians, the Germans were more so Lutheran, but he includes them in there, the Germanics, but especially Italians and Irish. They don't have the American addiction to World War II Holocaust history that white evangelicals had through dispensationalism. And it says, and their faith is at best neutral to Judaism, if not even openly hostile. they're not natural allies to israel and american jews are very aware of this so what we're watching today under the surface of the current debate about israel these things and catholics and is an ethno-religious shake-up of the american political landscape the remaining wasp high church at this point mainline protestants who are high church and formality but incredibly liberal politically and culturally, the remaining wasps resent losing power, are aligning to some extent with Catholics who were already, he puts this as a parenthetical statement, let's be honest, they were already the Catholics ascending. Notice the Supreme Court and conservative intelligentsia are increasingly more Catholic and less Jewish, close parentheses, while Jewish Americans attempt to hold on to their hard-won positions here in America by utilizing their alliance with the evangelicals. And then he says this at the end, and I think it's insightful. In short, it's Paula White versus the Pope. It's just ethno-religious factionalism dressed up in political ideology. I'm going to say that last line one more time. What we have today is Paula White versus the Pope. Ethno-religious factionalism dressed up as political ideology. Now, of course, there are stark, clear, and significant political implications to these two groups. But the real determining factor the real dividing line in many cases is far less political and far more racial and religious ethno um it you know so what what is this turn in sentiment against our greatest ally israel well part of it is you know um israel bombing the living hell out of every country on the planet these last three years uh without mercy and you know idf soldiers arguing for rights to rape political prisoners, IDF soldiers using cigarettes to burn holes in the legs of an infant in order to get his father to squeal and give them information, Bibi Netanyahu being a literal genocidal war criminal, that doesn't help Israel's PR, right? So those are, you know, those are some of the basics. And then, you know, as there's been a lift from some of the suppression on free speech with Elon taking over, you know, X and these kinds of things where people can you know actually look and say well 109 countries you know like man the jews are just always down on their luck and persecuted and then seeing oh snap that's why they were kicked out and oh snap we kicked out of 109 barbecue joints you never over ate at any of them you never made a mess every single time it was their fault it was always their fault they always picked on you so so part of it is just uh the freedom of which information flows today part of it is israel on the global stage and uh their their choices um with war in gaza and now lebanon and you know and all all these different things and setting their sights now on turkey um so that that's part of it uh but part of it also in israel falling out of favor in america is um that america isn't it's not the same America. The people have shifted with this mass influx of immigration, predominantly from foreign countries, South America and Africa and Asia and the Middle East and Pakistan. So as America has become increasingly brown, Israel has become increasingly not liked, which I kind of, you know, like it sucks for America to have its native citizens erased, you know, so that's its own problem and it's significant. At the same time, it's kind of like, it's a bit of, you know, it's hard not to enjoy the irony a little bit because it's, you know, Israel and Jewish, I mean, it was a Jew who, you know, argued and ultimately achieved Hartzeller Act. Well, Jews were furious because immigration prior to the Hartzeller Act favored Western Europeans. They were mostly in the gulags in, not the gulags, but the ghetto in Eastern Europe. And so they were furious that they were pretty much precluded from U.S. immigration. So they pushed hard for policies, for one, that thought of race as a flat line. So it's just all, there's no inherent biological differences between people and push for expansion of immigration policies so that Jews could immigrate, which they then did, and as we saw, subverted the avenues of power. Jewish propaganda, Jewish ideology, and Jewish policies made America brown. And as America has become increasingly brown, America hates Israel. Right. Kind of funny. And the WASP core, the core stock of America, is then furious at the Jews for letting all the brown people in. So the browns don't like them. And then the WASP says, we had a pretty good thing here. And Jews, I mean, it was called the golden age in America in the 1900s, the Jewish golden age. They really had it pretty good. And that was because people could work jobs. People could afford a home. young men could find a good woman to marry they could settle down they could afford to be a single income family and so you have this golden age where jews are pretty tolerated because i mean we were 85 percent white and there were some jews and they made movies they made media and all of the impact that they had was pretty minimal now change that over american america's 60 65 percent white 30 percent immigration uh foreign born uh individuals that have come here work visas, all of that, and the Jews are a tiny proportion. We don't like that 30%, and we're looking at who facilitated the immigration. That's the difference between the end of the 1900s and what's going on now and why people are turning and saying, I don't appreciate what you did to this country. Like if you are a young man, Protestants, and if you're a Protestant, and you should be, your Protestant forefathers built this land. Your WASP ancestors made this the greatest nation the world has ever seen with the greatest quality of life, with the highest level of trust and safety, with great economic opulence. I mean, we conquered the West. We laid down railroad tracks. We built the Empire State Building in 13 months when New York was 96% white. You have a great Anglo-Protestant heritage. And you can be mad and say, you subverted it. You let in a bunch of people that did no desire to work, no desire to immigrate, no desire to assimilate. I don't like that. And I don't like that you did that to us. Right. When it comes to your financial future, are you planning forward or backwards from your desired results? What type of financial culture do you want to create for your family and for your children's children? We are not called to be wise as doves. Therefore, simpleton planning simply won't cut it. Joe Garrison helps families develop and implement a long-term culture of excellent financial management. 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And so that's not voting well for Jews. And yet at the same time, in a sense of irony, Jews were integral in pushing for all these policies that allowed for all these people to come in. And it really is sad because we, you know, you guys hear us talk about it a lot. We are very concerned about Jewish supremacy and Jewish power and its negative effects on the world and in Western countries. We think that that's a problem. and um but at the same time we don't hate jews we want to see jews born again we want to see them come to saving faith in jesus christ we want to see them be law-abiding citizens and not seeking to exploit systems and not peddling pornography and usury and charging interest on burritos and you know like we like we we want to see jews not destroy the world but we also don't want to see Jews destroyed. And like what Wes said, just in passing, but I don't want us to miss it, there really was a golden age for ethnic Jews and religious Jews in America. And it's not a coincidence that it lined up perfectly with an age where white Anglo-Saxon Protestants were in charge. Jews actually, because we love Jews and we want what's best for them, Jews actually flourish and do really, really well until Jews take power. And when Jews take power, they ruin everything for everyone, including Jews. Kevin McDonald's book, Culture Critique, he talks about a young Jewish student that goes to Columbia and he's so peeved that the social clubs don't let him in because he's Jewish. Like that was what it was in the 60s. Like, you're Jewish. We're not going to let you into where the actual decisions are made. Also, they're golden age. Yep. So yeah. So if you're Jewish and you're like, I want a golden an age where I don't hear people on social media every single day talking about how they hate the Jews and I don't want to be blamed for everything and I also don't want a flood of of immigrants coming into America who despise Jews and despise Israel and like then like I mean the answer you know it may be too late now but there was a solution and and the it was fairly simple the solution is just be hospitable and kind, law-abiding citizen, and don't seek to subvert and take the levers of power. Jews do really well when white European Christians are in charge. And they behave. And they behave. But when Jews misbehave and subvert and then take the levers of power, they immediately do that which is terrible for white western christians and then in the long run it ends up being terrible for them too so you want a golden age for jews you want them to be able to live with prosperity and peace in america um they they can't jews are safest when they ride in the car but aren't allowed to drive that's just kind of the way it is and so now all that being said again i thought that was insightful post from orrin mcintyre but now it's like what do we do now well america is um it's it's brown um it's increasingly catholic um the wasps are basically gone at this point they're basically uh done um but there's you know there's still a few of them, but most of the was today are, they're, they're liberal, they're gay, they're homosexuals. Yeah. Um, they're great Episcopal, you know, cathedral is now just, uh, now just a, a place to facilitate, you know, the, the latest drag queen story hour. And then the evangelicals politically and culturally speaking, nobody is more conservative the evangelicals like catholics we love you you know we appreciate you but we just we got to be honest um catholics um catholics are not conservative um especially your cradle catholics your latin mass you know 22 year old sure but the majority are cradle catholics right but if we're going to say that well oh but some of them are yeah well and some mainline protestants are still conservative um but we're talking about on the whole on the whole mainline protestants are gay and we'll admit that on the whole mainline protestants are including the high church liturgical traditions that we've really come to love and appreciate yep they're they're gay gayer than fundamentalist baptists who just stand there with exactly so that so that's my point catholics on the whole uh and you can look at it you can look at the voting patterns um i actually think I might even have a graph. Let me look real quick in my notes. Yes. So sexual relations between two adults of the same sex. This is tracking from like 19, looks like about 1970 now to 2025 or 2026. For mainline Protestants, those who say it's not wrong at all, It was 12% in 1970 said homosexual relationships are not wrong at all. And now 63% in 2026 say it's great. And so 72% of mainline Protestants in 1970 said it's always wrong, same-sex relationships. Now only 23% of mainline Protestants in 2026 say that it's always wrong. uh, black Protestants, the black church has a switch totally gone from 12% saying that it's wrong. Um, and, and now, um, uh, back in 1970 for black Protestants, uh, or I'm sorry, uh, 80% said that it's wrong. 80% in 1970, black Protestants said same sex relationships are wrong. and now only 42% say that it's wrong. For Catholics, it was 67% in 1970 said that homosexual relationships are wrong. Only 22% say that it's wrong today. For evangelicals in 1970, it was 85% said it was wrong and still 63% say that it's wrong today. In other words, for mainline Protestants, black Protestants and Catholics, in the last approximately 55 years, They've all done a complete reversal. There are more mainline Protestants today in 2026 who are favorable towards homosexuality. More are favorable today and far less were favorable in 1970. Black Protestants, the switch has happened. More favorable than against. Catholics, significantly more favorable than against. Evangelicals, significantly less favorable of homosexual relationships. evangelicals are the only one who have stood strong on homosexuality who have stood strong on abortion who have stood strong on immigration all these political and cultural moral issues evangelicals are the only one and it's not even close it's it's literally not even close the problem though is that evangelicals also are the only group that doesn't want to rule mainline protestants want to rule but they super gay and these days they a joke that that your wasp The black Protestants they certainly want to rule And every now and then when DEI is in style they get you know, affirmative action position and some, you know, as a judge, or you got your Ketanji Brown Jacksons, you know, who are like, who, you know, just somebody throws them a position, you know, because they're black. But that's about it. Catholics want to rule and they actually have the stamina. They're actually somewhat successful and filling the halls of power. And that could happen. But they are, for the most part, liberal, politically and culturally speaking. They're liberal. Evangelicals, politically and culturally speaking, are the only true conservatives left in America. The one problem is that all these other groups want to rule and evangelicals don't. So evangelicals are like, we'll hold the line on true Christian virtues in our heart. but um we don't really want to rule and because of dispensational zionism they're like the jews will rule for us right so that's that's kind of where we are is evangelicals are the only ones who have truly kept the faith um as it applies tangibly to the world around us immigration um traditional marriage the dignity of the unborn all those kinds of things um but uh they have determined because they watched the wasp they watched mom and dad um you know fulfill the formalities of religion in the high halls of power um but not really have character not really have morality, not really have zeal, not really have passion, being cold and being, you know, just severed and separate. And so those, they're, you know, following generations, right? Well, forget this. We're just going to worship Jesus with our true heart and soul. And we're going to do it in a refurbished skating rink with Pastor Billy Ball. I remember Nancy Piercy in her book on toxic masculinity. She said how her father, I believe he was a Lutheran deacon, but most certainly a churchman. And he knew just where to hit her and her mom so the bruises wouldn't be visible on Sunday morning. There's millions of those stories. Dads that came back from the war and they would drag themselves to church. But when they were home, they were drunkards. They were cheating. They were unfaithful to their wives or they were just cruel. They hit their kids, would punch them where they knew the bruises. And they were still a part of the Lions Club. And you know, they were this organization. Or they were deacons or elders in their church. So they were ruling in the church, ruling in the country. But they were just really crappy people. They were crappy men. They were smart, highly educated, never would have given power to Jews or Catholics or anybody else for that matter. But lousy husbands and lousy dads. And that's why people ask me, like Timothy Gordon, he's a Catholic who does immense good, immense good and highly trained. And the guy is like a philosopher and used to teach until he got canceled for being, because he's a Catholic who's actually conservative. And so he's great. And I remember he asked me a while back, and I don't blame him at all for asking, but he was like, dude, why are you an evangelical? Because it's like the hardest part about being an evangelical in 2026 is having to tell your dad you're gay. You know, like, I mean, evangelicals are literally like, they're just completely immersed in Zionism and, and just like idolatry of Israel and worshiping Jews. Like, why are you an evangelical? And, you know, I, I, I told him, yeah, that's true. but they're also the only people left in the country who believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. Yeah. That, um, an unborn child is a human being made in the image of God and shouldn't be sucked out of his mother's womb with a vacuum cleaner and actually voted for mass deportations and wants to keep the, you know, historic demographic of America. Evangelicals are like, and again, we're speaking in generalities. Of course, there are some great Catholics. Of course, there are still a few great, you know, mainline Protestant individuals, but I'm speaking on the whole, statistically, evangelicals are truly the salt of the earth. They're the last decent people in America. And it's really sad that your choices, if you're thinking religiously of different sects of Christianity in America today, your choices are to be conservative, traditional loving the bible and super duper zionist and worshiping jews or to be awake on the fact that israel is destroying the world and zionism is a heretical psyop but morally culturally and politically you're gay you're you're immoral you're you're soft on abortion or pro-abortion, you're soft on homosexuality and sodomy, you're soft on immigration. Like Catholics don't really, they don't stand up against immigration because the reason that America has become increasingly Catholic is because of immigration. Most of the Catholics are like, yeah, I'm down for my cousin and second cousin and third cousin and fourth cousin to come here too. So they're pro-immigration. Even guys like Dr. Taylor Marshall, you know he's a great guy and he's awake on the israel stuff like he he knows that stuff he's not a zionist he hasn't been hoodwinked but on immigration he's like you know like we did an episode with him a while back and i was like i kind of feel like you're okay with immigration and america not being um majority white and losing its you know its heritage and original demographic so long as it's you know uh you're fine with millions and millions of brown people coming to america as long as they're catholic and he kind of smiled was like yeah and that's i'm just trying i'm being you know because people are like joel why don't you become catholic it's like because i don't want america to be brown uh because i uh think that um a man shouldn't sodomize another man and because i think abortion is murder and there's only one group in america that still holds to those views and it's evangelicals. And so then the question is like, what is easier to, as an, it'd be one thing if I had been Catholic my whole life, but like I've been an evangelical my whole life. I am still an evangelical past. So what do I think is more likely? Ripping evangelicals off of the, you know, the propaganda of Zionism or getting Catholics to care about a white majority in America when half of them are brown. Like, honestly, I'm far more bullish on evangelicals becoming J-pilt than I am on Catholics stopping immigration and holding to traditional marriage. And I understand the Catholic Church as an institute holds to traditional marriage, all right? I wasn't born yesterday, I'm aware. but i'm telling you what i just looked at and we'll have that graph you know james martin operates publicly in the open this is the political couples statistics as a priest in good standing in the catholic church yes and and what i'm talking about is not just one off i know that that that would be that would be the uh exception yep the catholics as an institution on the whole have held to traditional marriage mainline protestants haven't so i'm aware of that but what i'm talking about is, I'm talking about the majority of Catholic individual voters. The majority of Catholic voters in America are pro-gay, pro-abortion, and definitely pro-immigration. They're like, dude, how can we make America as brown as possible? That's your based Catholic voter. Evangelicals are like, how can we keep America white, make sure that dudes don't sodomize other dudes, and protect the life of the unborn? Evangelicals, they get a lot of flack, and we've given them a lot of flack. We critique our own, right? We're not going to be biased. We have been harshly critiquing evangelicals as evangelicals, and we've been doing it for a couple years now. So I think it's fair to have one episode where we say, evangelicals are the only people who haven't lost their mind on sodomy murder of babies and uh and flooding the entire country with the entire third world right it's evangelicals exclusively they're the only ones a lone bulwark some have said a lone bulwark against the moral insanity of america it's absolutely true and yet at the same time evangelicals are the only reason that Jews have power in America. And it's like, goodness gracious, I wish I had like a few more options. He's like, really? Those are my options. No Zionism, but the whole country is going to be brown in like seven years, Catholic. Or hold to all the issues that are biblical and true and right and good and also historically true of our demographic in America. but I'm going to have to go to Israel and kiss the wall every 15 minutes. Right. I mean, Catholics aren't doing paid sponsored trips with Yormuzhoy to Israel. They're doing a little bit, but not like evangelicals. Evangelicals are like, I love that trip. I love it. And then I will come back and I'll speak on a panel with Josh Hammer at, at NatCon. Like, are you kidding me? It's in Jerusalem this year, which is, it's a little, it's a little on the nose. It's a little on the nose. So those are your options. Um, you can be gay, Brown and non-Zionist, AKA the average American Catholic, or you can be white, defend the unborn, not queer. Um, but worship baby Netanyahu, AKA an evangelical. Those are the options. In other words, they both suck. They both suck. But the question is, can one of them be fixed? And if so, which one has the highest likelihood of being fixed? And for us, I feel like evangelicalism has still potential, especially as more and more people every day are becoming aware of the negative influence of Israel. So I'm hopeful on that. Two, for me personally, my background, I've always been an evangelical. so it makes more sense to defend my people. And then three, aside from just the political and cultural issues, theologically, when it comes to the imputed righteousness of Christ, when it comes to salvation by grace through faith in Christ, those are my theological convictions. And those I couldn't give up even if I tried. And so here I am, an embarrassed evangelical who is proud in one sense, the cultural political stand that evangelicals have made and continue to make embarrassed on the other hand by evangelicals being so low church and so against intellectualism and academia that they were so easily hoodwinked by dispensationalism and zionism but on the other hand saying these are my people. They're the salt of the earth. They really love Jesus. And I think maybe, maybe I can persuade them that Paula White is a heretic. And like Elijah eventually persuaded them to take Jezebel and throw her out of the window to be eaten by the dogs. My heart and desire as a Christian, as a husband, a father, and a pastor is that I could spend my life. And if God would be so kind that I could persuade evangelicals in America to take Paula White and throw her out of a window to be eaten by dogs, metaphorically speaking, but that that Jezebel would be cast down and that evangelicals would say, you know what, also while we're at it, Netanyahu doesn't get to do his laundry at the White House anymore. And Donald Trump, you need to repent before God and to the American people you betrayed. And if not, we'll impeach your ass. That's my heart. That's my desire. And by God's grace, I really think, even though it's dark right now and frustrating and disheartening, the scripture says the Lord can win by many or by few. And I believe that the Lord can do it. And so we pray and work towards that end. If you've been blessed by this ministry, We appreciate your support, your encouragement. And at this point, we're almost entirely funded by the generosity of our donors. Right Response Ministries is a nonprofit Christian 501c3 organization. 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