Clifford Lynn Draper | 200

Need anything from Tesco? Like Nescafe Azir and 90g instant coffee? For just £3.50 this Easter with your Tesco Club Card. Because every little helps. Majority of larger stores Azir and 90g ends 14th April. Club card or app required. You know when you're listening to a true crime story that has an unbelievable plot twist that makes you stop in your tracks? That's what our podcast, People Are The Worst, brings you with each episode. I'm Rachel. And I'm Rebecca. We're identical twins who love true crime cases that make you say didn't see that coming and we hate the people responsible for them. Listen to People Are The Worst now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. When the DJ picks up, Clifford told her that he had a bomb and he was holding hostages at the library and she needed to listen to him very carefully. And in response, the DJ told him to fuck off and hung up. No way. She thought it was a prank. Episode 200. 200. Excuse me? Ever think we would make it this far? Yes. Totally. Yes. We're going to keep going whether people liked it or not. Uh-huh. It's just, yeah. It's too fun of an outlet and it's, I mean, horrifying stories obviously, but you know, fun to work with you. Right? Sure. Right back at you. I remember like a year ago, someone was like, how about y'all just say on your 200th episode, you'll start doing live shows. Oh, okay. Here we are. We can say it all we want. It doesn't make it true because I don't know about that. We will eventually. I would love to, but like I don't even know how to go about that. Me neither. Well, our network does. Yeah. That's true. Okay. Well, close in or we can ask them. But yeah, we would love that. I'm still, I think I've said that, I said this a year ago when that came up before. I'm scared no one would come. Uh-huh. The fear is still there. Uh, yeah, still there prevalent probably always will be. So thank you so much. But like a small venue, that would be really fun. That would be fun. It would be fun. It would be fun. It'd be like conversational with everyone. Yeah. Yeah. And then I was, I should have looked back because I was like, Oh my God, this is episode 200 at what we did for 100, which was yours. I do remember that. The four strange and unexplained, they defy logic. Brian Schaefer, the Dallas guy that I'm up. Uh-huh. I always, I always mix up his name. We was watching the Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah. It's like David Allen or Alan David always makes them up. Yeah. But like watching the Super Bowl thing. Yeah. Um, yeah, we went outside the box. That's right. Mm-hmm. Brian Schaefer's case is coming on 20 years. That is such a baffling ass tale. I need to look, I feel like I came across in a very hazy doom scrolling session of Reddit that something has come up, like someone has come forward thinking they might know some, I don't know. Oh, I need to look into that. Yeah. I need to actually Google it, but I do know that the 20 years come out. He's the guy who went into the bar with his two friends. In Ohio. In Ohio and the CCTV, I think it's called the saloon actually, a tuna saloon. And CCTV captures Brian and his two friends into the bar, captures Brian talking to people outside the bar like during the night. And then at last call shows everyone including his two friends leave the bar and Brian has never been seen or heard from again. That's the crazy. Wow. That is your face doing that. Because it was April 1st, 2006. This is tomorrow. 20 year anniversary tomorrow. 20 year anniversary. Where is he? It's crazy. And there was tuna saloon I dead on. Thank you. Near the Ohio State campus. It was there was construction going on. So a lot of people theorize that like he fell into a wall or like they poured concrete in the construction. He's in the walls, something happened. He passed out. But apparently that bar has since been gutted yet again and like, no, that's not it. And the GC on that construction project next door had the workers dig up where he would have fallen. Yeah. So, nope. Next, next. Next. What the hell? And he's not on any CCTV from any surrounding bars. We just. Doesn't show him leaving. Yeah, just no idea. Doesn't show him leaving. It is about something like that though. Fall into. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. There's like kind of a not simple explanation obviously, but I don't know if foul play is involved because he's clearly seen on CCTV and he's not leaving. Like there's something like that where he maybe not fell into that construction site, but I don't know. Well, I'll do you one better. I don't want. Okay. His girlfriend who he was going to propose to that week. That's right. Called his dad, his called his phone every day for six months, I believe. And so he went missing. When was that? It was like, it was a spring break. So March, April. I said, I'm sorry. April 1st, 2006. Yeah. And September, 2006. So she called every day for six months and it always went straight to voicemail. And then in September, 2006, it rang twice and she called the police and it pinged in another town. God, if I could remember, I don't remember. Another town about 20 miles north. The phone company said that could be a glitch, but then I read an interview, I listened to an interview with one of the lead detectives on the case and he said, it actually did that two more times in another town too. What? Like it's his phone pinged two separate other times. So I'm like, what the fuck? And then there's a sighting. People thought that they saw him in COVID because they thought he ran away. I'm just so, yeah. They thought he ran away and there was a sighting of a man, a homeless man in COVID, like right by Tijuana or maybe in Tijuana, Mexico. And the FBI said it wasn't him. People claimed to have seen him from Mississippi to Switzerland. This guy, he just disappeared. It is so crazy. Baffling. Okay. So that was, there was episode 100 in the nutshell. And while one other story, three other baffling stories with the police. And I'm like, I'm going to get rid of it. And now this is episode 200. Oh, God. I'm telling y'all about Clifford Lynn Draper. The big red dog. Clifford the big red dog. No, that Clifford is lovable, which funny enough, we watched that last night. We never do, but okay. Yeah. Um, sources LA times, New York times, Orlando, Senegal, Catalyst magazine, several articles from the Deseret news. Uh, I hostage in America's most wanted final justice. I guess Desiree. No, it's not. It's Desiree. It's a Mormon owned. Okay. Uh, news outlet. So thank you. You're welcome. On Saturday, March 5th, 1994, the Salt Lake City Library was bustling. Aside from regular patrons of the library, a group of Tibetan monks were there creating a San Mandala, which is another term for a sand painting. It was part of a Buddhist ceremony and there were a lot of people there observing the ceremony on the second floor of the library. One of these observers was a man named Clifford Lynn Draper. Just as the ceremony finished around 915 a.m. Clifford suddenly burst from the crowd, pushed past the monks and jumped up onto a desk and yelled, don't anybody leave. Don't anybody move. Oh. He was dressed in military fatigues and on one hand he was holding a pistol and on the other hand he was holding a curling iron and the open position. So he was like holding the clamp down. Okay. Uh-huh. The dog would never do this. So no, the curling iron had wires attached to it and the wires led to a gym bag that Clifford was wearing on a shoulder. Obviously, they couldn't see what was in the gym bag, but witnesses said it was about the size of a microwave, which the size of a microwave in 94, it was huge. Wow. He's got a perm or hair. It was Ken Vo. Is that, what's his name? Ken Vo? Oh my God. Oh my God. Crazy. Is that a step? Oh. The hairdresser, you all know from E Blonde Hair, famous hairdresser. Anyway. Okay. He yelled to the crowd that he had a bomb big enough to blow up the entire building and if he closed the curling iron clamp, the bomb would explode. So the curling iron is what's known as a dead man switch, which is a human operated device designed to either activate or deactivate the bomb if said human is incapacitated. So in this case, he's holding it open to keep the bomb from going off, but if someone were to shoot him or tackle him, forcing him to drop it, goodbye. And he's telling this to a very confused and scared crowd. Sure. And then, like a librarian named Lenore thought it was a joke given the timing of this scene. It was right after a very quiet peace ceremony demonstrated by Buddhist monks and this madman jumps on a desk threatening to blow everyone up. Right. I was like, I get it. It's inappropriate, but I do get it. And yeah, pipe down. Shut the fuck up. Sadly, it was no joke. And as people started to scatter, he became a rate and made even more threats. So a lot of them stop and cooperated. And then he starts choosing hostages at random from the crowd. How scary. After choosing, he said to the rest of the people, thanks dude to have a good life because mine probably won't last long. Then he looked at the monks and asked them to pray for him because he was going to die soon. No, we're not praying for you. Right now. Get out. We're praying for a prayer request and a sack. Mr. Fuck. What? And they all look down and they go, fuck you. Can you imagine? It'd be awesome. Clifford starts leading the hostages into a small conference room nearby. And as they're making their way there, he pulls out a sealed envelope. I think it's the Manila envelope addressed to James Mortimer, who was the editor of the Deseret News, the local organization I sourced earlier. He gave the envelope to one of the monks to go mail, but the monk didn't speak English. And was very confused about what he was supposed to do. I know. So another patron of the library named Dr. Carl Robinson stepped in and offered to help him and Clifford said, fine, go and let's them leave. So they get to the conference room. But when Clifford walks in, he's very surprised to see a Toastmasters meeting going on in the conference room. If you aren't familiar, Toastmasters is an organization that teaches people skills for public speaking. I need it. That will be what I do to prep for live shows. 100 percent. Yeah. If ever it gets to that point. God. So Toast, as a fear of having a fear of public speaking, those people's blood, they're just already my adrenaline is going just out the thought of speaking in public. And then a madman comes in. Woo. Forget it. Or it has a great opposite of fate. And they're like, you know what? Public speaking, not that terrifying. Not that terrifying. Asshole. Terrifying. Yeah. Not that bad. So the 11 members of Toastmasters were completely unaware of what was going on outside the doors. And they're like, holy shit. Clifford yells to them to do what he says because he has a bomb. And this conference room has two doors, one in the front, one in the back. As Clifford is shuffling the original group of passages through the front door, a bunch of the Toastmasters members run out the back. Nine of them do this. He sees them and threatens to shoot them, but he doesn't. They keep going. They all have nothing. This guy's a big bluff. He has nothing on him. They all end up getting away. The nine that went for it, leaving two members of the Toastmasters behind with the other hostages. So now there are a total of 10 hostages locked in this conference room. And just a side note, if you do look into this, it's so weird. Some very reputable sources say 18 hostages. I don't know why, but I'm thinking they're counting all of the Toastmasters, even the ones who escaped out the back door, since they were technically hostages for a couple of seconds. But even with that nine of them escape, but one was a juvenile, one was 17 years old. So maybe they didn't count that back then because a lot of those sources are from. We won't hold it against you. Sorry. I'm just saying you'll be like anywhere from nine to 18 hostages, but it is 100% 10 hostages. I'll tell you all later. So among the hostages is a woman named Gwen Page, who had been a librarian there for 17 years at this point. Clifford appointed her as sort of the leader to do what he says and facilitate demands since she knew the layout of the building, how everything worked. Another hostage is a guy named Lloyd Prescott, who was an accountant. And when he gets to the door of the conference room, he looks at Clifford and asks, what do I do with this envelope? It was the envelope that was supposed to be sent with the monk and Carl to be sent to the editor of the distro. They got the hell out of there. Yeah. He was like, Clifford's like, what? They were supposed to mail it. What the fuck are you doing with it? Apparently in the chaos, they handed it off. And this guy's like, Clifford's really losing control of this room. Yeah. But so Lloyd tells Clifford, the gun is making him extremely nervous. Like just tell me what to do. And Clifford told him to get in, sit down, shut up. And he gave the envelope to some other non hostage to go mail. And the person runs off and does what they're told. Heesh. Chaos. In the conference room, Clifford barricaded the doors, lowered the blinds and placed the bomb in the center of the table, the gym bag with the microwave, whatever. Size thing in it. He then asked Gwen to go around and collect everyone's coats to ensure that nobody had a weapon on them. Then he had them all sit in the conference room chairs and turn their backs. So they weren't facing Clifford and their backs were to the bomb. Oof. I would hate that. Obviously a lot of people in the beginning scattered out the library before even started picking hostages. So cops have been called SWAT teams on their way. Right. I mean, sure a thousand people called them. Yeah. A lot of the employees of the library who were not selected as hostages stayed on the scene to offer police and the SWAT team their knowledge of the, again, libraries floor plan, the security system, phone system, all of it. Because by the way, this library is huge. It's five stories. If you're familiar with Salt Lake City, it's the building that ultimately became the museum, the Leonardo. It recently closed actually, I think like in 2025 for good, but you can see pictures of it. The building's still there. Big ass building. In addition to having to hold the dead man switch, the curling iron clamp, Clifford took extra measures to ensure that nobody could overpower home. He had sewn razor blades into his pants to prevent people from grabbing on or if they did, they would cut the shit out of their hands. And he also tied the gun to his wrist with a strap so it would never be out of reach. If he needed to let go of it, it would just, if he needed his hand, he could let go of it and he still had it. So who is this asshole? You tell me. Oh, I'm gonna. Clifford Lynn Draper was born on January 26, 1964 and raised in Newport, Arkansas. At 17 years old, he enlisted in the US Navy, but by the time he was 20 years old around 1984, he was medically discharged. And I'm not sure why. People described him as bizarre and possibly troubled. Wow. Okay. Usually. I know. Usually he lit up on him. Yeah. No. People described him as smart, friendly, he kept himself, but no, it's okay. No. People described him weird as shit. Yeah. No, this is not one of those like, we would never saw this coming. Actually, it kind of is because they, while they said maybe troubled, a little bizarre, they didn't think he was violent. He just, they were like, who's weird? Never, they never do. They never do. He had a minor weapons charge and a burglary charge at one point when he was living in California, but nothing crazy. When he moved to Utah, he was in the National Guard, but was discharged under bad circumstances, is all it said. Again, don't know what those were. And just a few months before this hostage situation during Christmas, he was the one ringing the bell for the Salvation Army outside of stores. Like the fuck. Wow. Um, he did get moved by the Salvation Army at one point. He was outside of a department store. Um, people were complaining of like weird behavior. So again, they just thought it was weird. I mean, my mind goes straight to Phoebe. Uh-huh. I don't know. I'm sorry. She's scraped. She makes everyone look in their hands. Get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. He's like that. Oh, classic. Anyway, uh, Clifford was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and had not been doing well as far as we know, leading up to this, obviously. Um, and by this point, which again is March 1994, Clifford was 30 years old, unemployed and living in a hotel near Salt Lake City. He was in most media outlets referred to as a drifter. Yeah. Totally. So the SWAT team gets to the library and they don't risk storming in, obviously, just in case this turns out to be a real bomb. No way. So they set up a command center outside the library to gain as much intel as they can on Clifford, uh, and then get the, you know, library floor plan, all of it. Which room are they in? You know, um, so they can come up with a plan of action for getting the hostages out safely. Yeah. The hostage negotiator, Phil Kirk, called the phone that was set up in the conference room much to Clifford's dismay. He did not want to talk to cops. He only wanted them to refer to the letter that he sent to the publisher, which was a list of his demands. There was, there are multiple letters in there. One was for the publisher to be blasted in the newspaper, um, I believe. And then the other was to the chief of police to take immediately. Um, obviously the person who ultimately ended up with the letters did not go mail it. They went outside and handed it to the police. Thank you so much for that. Right. So are we going to be here for a week and a half? No. Well, that's the plan. Oh, fuck. Clifford really doesn't understand how this works. He's like, pissed that people scattered. He's pissed that the cops want to talk to him. I'm like, Devi, what? Have you seen a movie? This is, it's not all on your terms. No, you are going to learn by the end of this, I think you'll be of the understanding that Clifford is not of the rational mind. You know, so among the list of demands and said letter, he wanted a place to summon the senior most officer of the National Guard, the Supreme Commander of the state militia and the governor. He would be speaking to them and no one else. He didn't want any just. Joe Schmoe cops. Joe Schmoe cops. No, he wanted the best, the highest of the high. Get cash patel in here. Sure. Any comments on that? No, no. Okay. Okay. Um, he wanted. Okay. He wanted to be reinstated to the National Guard. Like, let's cross that one. Oh my God. He wanted a pardon from President Clinton. He was being very proactive because he knows he's fucked. Right. He saw a pardon from President Clinton. Sure. Okay. He acknowledges that this could go on for a long time and he may end up falling asleep, which would detonate the bomb. So no one wants that. So he's going to need this, a doctor to deliver amphetamines so everyone could stay awake as well as sedatives in case the hostages needed to calm down a little bit. And also the doctor delivering them needs to be wearing underwear only to make sure he's not going to pull any funny business. Oh boy, you're in a library. Adderall is going to be in every single person's pocket. Well, later says he had enough amphetamines for, for himself. He, but he needed more probably. Yeah. He was jacked. Yeah. And I, okay. So anyway, that yes, he would like that again, doctor in the, in underpants only. God. No funny business up in here. And then he wants 20 years worth of back pay for his prior military service and 34 years of retirement. And it needs to be paid back with a maximum of $50,000 in cash and the rest of it needed to be in the form of gold and platinum bullion. No foreign currencies. He said, like, obviously. Okay. Well, what the, of course not. What? Yeah. Anyway. And also then I get on the loud speaker. Fuck you. We're not. Producing any of those things. Right. So except releasing my German shepherd into that building. So thank you so much. Right. We're going to get you a gold bullion. It's going to be chocolate. I mean, son. So there it is. There's your, there's your treat. So these demands are not easy to meet. Can you believe it? The National Guard no longer wants him. So like, what are they supposed to do? Come on. We'll interview you real quick. Right. They're going to tell a doctor to go into the library and his underwear or her underwear. Sedatives and, and fettemy. Like, no, no. Anyway, so, um, and, and, and they tell Clifford this, they're like, well, these are tough. We thought it was going to be like cash. Right. Um, which some of it was, but the rest are very difficult, but he's not budging, not budging. Um, and he's not budging inside the conference room either. At one point he complained about the government and military and mentioned wanting to lead the U S and go somewhere better. Oh, I think God. So a list of the demands. There's a lot of them. I couldn't decide if this was accurate enough because I only saw it in one source, but one of them was a private plan to a foreign country. So sure, we have it for you. It's out here. Come on. Come on. You got a board. You're the plane's leaving. It's about to leave. So in the conference room, he complained about government, military and wanting to lead the U S and go somewhere better. And one of the hostages, Nathan, who was a BYU student, replied like sort of jokingly, he wanted to like keep the light and said, Switzerland would be nice. Um, there you go. I fully agree. And Clifford responded, let's not get too chummy in here. Oh, so he was doing everything he could to stay emotionally distant from them. And we have those stories where a hostage or kidnapped victim can appeal to emotions. This was not going to happen. He is uninterested in you humanizing yourself. Do not do it. Right. This is especially apparent when he references only some of them getting out. He's, he's for sure planning on killing. At least some of them. At another point, Clifford caught Lloyd, the accountant staring at the gun. And I guess he was staring too closely because Clifford looked at him and yelled, I understand you're concerned about this gun and the bomb, but you're making me nervous and you don't want to make me nervous. Do you? And Lloyd said he like, put his hands up and as, as a sign of submission was like, okay, okay, I'll turn back around. So he's getting a little reactive, a little jumpy. I can't get him. Yeah. I can't stare his gun without him jumping out of his skin. And he's right. We do not want to make him nervous. Even though that ship seems to have sailed. Yeah. When Clifford had to use the restroom, he chose a hostage had Gwen, toweled the hostage, one of the hostages hands behind his back with the belt. And then with his free hand, the hostage had to bring the trash can over to Clifford, ends up Clifford's pants. And then he's like, oh, I'm going to get him. Clifford's pants and help him pee. Clifford couldn't do it himself because he was still holding the gun. Although it was tied to his wrist. So I'm like, maybe could have with one hand. And again, the curling iron is in the other clamp open. So someone had to help him. And I guess he didn't want the hostage to have both hands free because that would be easier to pummel Clifford if you wanted to. So more squeeze that dick right off. Right. Things go from bad to worse for one of the hostages named Sue, who was a diabetic and did not have her insulin and she really needed it. Clifford tried to understand that. Well, the other hostages try to make him understand they are begging him to let her go so she could get medical attention. But he said, nope. All the while he's psychologically torturing him. He's unhinched. He's screaming the whole time about killing him. Horrible. Yeah. After a few hours, Clifford is not happy with the lack of movement and his demands. So he wants to make a public statement. He has Michael Greer, one of the hostages, call the local radio station, so rock station Z 93. And he makes Michael hold the receiver up to his ear. When the DJ picks up, Clifford told her that he had a bomb and he was holding hostages at the library and she needed to listen to him very carefully. And in response, the DJ told him to fuck off and hung up. No way. She thought it was a prank. I mean, I don't. This episode is brought to you by hers. There's a lot of noise around weight loss right now. Trends, opinions, medications. It can be very overwhelming to know what actually works, what the side effects are or who to trust. And I know you don't want to be stuck in another frustrating cycle. That's where hers comes in. Because reaching your weight loss goals doesn't have to mean completely changing your life. 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Hilton for the stay. How terrifying. Obviously she did not know. And it does sound like a prank. Yeah, for sure. So but after she hung up, she couldn't shake the call. She was scared she did the wrong thing. Okay, I'm totally with this girl. I would second guess it. Maybe I should just call the police anyway. I'm sorry. Quick question. What year is it? 94. Okay. Okay. So she, second guessing her decision, she went to the station's program director, Trisha Griffith, and told her what happened and Trisha immediately jumped into action. She called the police and they sent a second hostage negotiator down to the radio station and prayed to baby Jesus that he called back. Thank God Clifford does call back. Right. And this time Trisha answered it. The program director. Yeah. Clifford demands to be put on air, but they really don't want to do that. So Trisha told them that the button to put people on air was broken, but it should be fixed by Monday. And again, this is Saturday. So he told her that they had 72 hours to fix it or everyone dies. Oh my God, I don't know if I'm the hostage. I'm like, fuck 72 hours. What? We're staying here for that long. Exactly. That was my point. We know for a fact you're lying, DJ Trisha. And I need you to just put him live on air. So we're not waiting till Monday in here. I know that she's going off the direction of the cops and they said, no, we're not doing that. They're not thinking about Sue at all. Oh, no, they do. OK, hold on. We'll get back. Sorry. So no, and he says, yeah, better be fixed within 72 hours. Again, they're like, that's how long we're doing this. We're not doing that. She says it'll be fixed by Monday, which is in 48 hours. So I don't know what he's doing anyway. This would be the first conversation she has with him over the course of five total phone calls. He calls them a lot. I think he'd hang up, call back, hang up, call back. So over the course of the next several hours, Trisha spoke to him and she rocked it. She stayed calm. She tried her best to keep him on the phone. He told her he'd rather die than go to jail. So he may start executing hostages right then and there. Oh, God. Again, the hostages are hearing his end of the conversation. They're like, what? Terrifying, terrifying. She's trying to get home to talk to the negotiator next to next to her. But of course, he says no. So she's like, OK, well, what else would you like me to do? Do you have a song request? And he says, yes, actually. He said whatever song that was playing at that very moment, they're listening to it in the conversation room, was not good mood music. And I wish I knew what it was. I looked, I looked, I know. Trisha says, OK, so we'll dump it. What do you want to play? And he requested that she play the police. Led Zeppelin and Jethro Tol. But only the deep cuts from Jethro Tol. No hits. So Trisha said, no problem. Ninety four, I thought it was going to be like Nirvana. No, you want classics. Yeah, OK. So for the next four hours, she cut all commercials. That's so much lost ad revenue. Like she rocks. Yeah. She ditched all the commercials and played whatever he wanted. Apparently listeners of the radio station, obviously not having any idea what was going on, caught it was like, why are you playing the same shit over and over? So just those three bands. But Trisha was helping the investigation and she's integral. Yeah. So they're jamming Roxanne and Trisha asked Clifford again, please speak to the officer next to me. And he says there's nothing to discuss with police. This is a military matter. This is purely a military matter. He's what? So fuck. Meanwhile, at the library, Clifford is growing increasingly angry again. I mean, he's so agitated. Especially when he hears the monks outside of the library chanting a prayer of peace. Oh, really pisses him off. Even though, excuse me, you asked him to pray for you. Yeah. What the fuck? But I bet they're praying for the postages. Sure. They've been in there for almost five hours and Sue's health is declining fast. She starts going in and out of consciousness. She's really clammy. She's 100 percent going into diabetic shock, likely a diabetic coma, actually. Oh, God. She couldn't even sit in her chair anymore. So Clifford did let her lie on the conference room table. What a gentleman. He or I know, isn't he a peach? He ordered the police to send a military doctor this time with insulin. Again, the doctor had to be in underwear only. And the cops challenged Clifford and said, no, just let her go. How about that? We're ready. We got an ambulance. We're good to go. Right. We're not sending anyone in there to which except still team six. Yeah. To which Clifford says, no, I've got my own problems. Let her die for all I care. That's what I said. Oh, my God. Then he yelled at Sue for getting everyone to turn against him. She's so vindictive. She's so vindictive. She's crazy. Oh, I hate this fucker. I know this is going to get me on one. I hate pieces of shit like this. Wait. Until the end. Oh, man, we are going to talk some shit. At one point, Sue wakes up again. She's in and out. She's just totally out of it. She's still lying on the table, obviously. And she looks at Lloyd, the accountant, and she looks panicked. So Lloyd leans over and touches her shoulder like in comfort and tells her, it's going to be OK. You're going to be OK. And as soon as he does that, his shirt comes up in the back and Chad Johnson, this hostage sitting next to him, notices that Lloyd has a gun in the waistband of his pants. Fuck, yes. Chad looks at Lloyd wide eyed and whispers, pull your shirt down. Luckily, Clifford was distracted and didn't see this because he was explaining to the other hostage that he was not letting Sue go. And then he remarks, actually, maybe I'll let her go and trade her for a cop. I've always wanted to kill a cop. This is especially chilling to Lloyd because he's not an accountant. He's a lieutenant with the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office and had been with the department for about 20 years at this point. Lloyd, don't sleep on Lloyd now. Don't sleep on the accountant. Screw. Let's go back. Yeah. That morning, Lieutenant Lloyd Prescott was getting ready to teach a training class at the Sheriff's Office, which is right across the street from the library. Around 9.45 AM, someone came running and screaming for help, saying there was a gunman at the library across the street taking hostages. Lloyd grabbed his service weapon, put it in the back of his waistband, threw on his members only jacket, so he could hide it and then ran over the library like a bad ass. What a bad ass. I got goosebumps. I love Lloyd. This is so good. He normally didn't work on Saturday and since he wasn't technically on duty, he wasn't in his uniform. He was in civilian clothing. Obviously this works in his favor. So Lloyd walked into the library, gun still hidden, obviously, and went right into the chaos. As he walked in, he ran into Carl Robinson and the monk assigned to mail the letter and they yelled to him to run. There's a guy with a bomb and Lloyd tells him it's OK. I'm with the Sheriff's Department. So Carl held up the envelope and said, we're supposed to mail this. And that's when it clicks for Lloyd. That that letter is going to be my ticket into the hostage room. Ah, I got chills. Oh, I know that's so bad ass. Lloyd are so impressive. A lot of the worst, but the ones that aren't the worst are so impressive. He is being one of them. A hero. Yeah. Lloyd took the letter from Carl, went into the doorway of the conference room and asked Clifford what he should do with it. Clifford distracted and confused by how this guy all of a sudden had the letter, told him it was supposed to be mailed to the editor. He asked Lloyd who he was and what he did for a living to, I guess, make sure he wasn't a cop and he said his name and told him he was an accountant. Lloyd considered grabbing his gun right then and there and shooting Clifford, but he didn't know if the bomb was real. That's the ongoing conflict and he's not willing to risk it. Instead, he wanted to ensure that he wasn't sent to mail the letter. He wanted to be in the room. Yeah. So he continued playing dumb and said, I don't know what's going on, but the gun is really scaring me. What do I do with this? And I don't know if him being scared is what made Clifford want him to stay. Yeah, he's vulnerable. Come on, he's not a threat at all. Yeah, exactly. So Clifford told him to get in the room, sit down and the letter got passed off to actually, I think Carl was nearby still. I think they handed it back to Carl. So it worked. Lloyd secured his spot in the hostage room. He was the last hostage in there and he closed the door. No more. He will be the last one. Thank you. So now Lloyd spends the next several hours deciding how to go about this. Again, if the bomb is real, one false move, everyone dies. If his cover is blown, everyone likely dies. He has to be very careful and I can't imagine the weight of that. He cannot make one wrong move. After the room was barricaded, you'll remember Clifford told Gwen to go around and collect everyone's jackets to ensure nobody was hiding a weapon. When he said this, Lloyd is like, fuck, the gun is only hidden because of his jacket. Yeah. So at first he actually reminds Clifford that it's freezing in there and he'd love to keep his jacket on to which Clifford said that happening. And he was actually very irritated by this request. So Gwen approaches Carl for his jacket and he shoots her eyes like he gives her eyes and makes a face like, skip me, do not take mine yet. No words are spoken and Gwen gets it loud and clear. Hell, yeah. She keeps it moving, keeps it moving. Lloyd then takes off his jacket and at the same time he pulls his shirt out from being untucked. So now a shirt is covering the gun and he hands Gwen the jacket. God. While Lloyd tries to figure out what the best move is, he sits near Clifford so he can more closely observe the gun and bomb. So that's what he was doing earlier when Clifford yelled at him. I understand you're nervous about gun and bomb. You're making me nervous. You don't want to make me nervous. No, he was staring at them to see if they were real. He was not nervous, never was nervous. No, of course, trying to figure out what to do. So he noticed that the curling iron bomb had a black powder like residue on it. And from what he knew from his hunting experience, if it is real, that powder is usually a low level explosive. Wow. And it likely couldn't blast through the thick oak table, which is what the conference room table was. Oh, the explosion. He said the explosion would likely follow the plane of the table and go outward and up, but not down. It could definitely still be deadly. And he doesn't know that much. Lloyd, I know he doesn't know that much about explosives, explosives. But there he thinks he does all that from a powder. So he knows a good bit. Yeah. So he theorizes that it would hit the table, go out and up, but not down. So he said, if there's a better chance that if he can somehow get everyone under the table or even just below it, he could incapacitate Clifford, likely killing himself and Clifford, but savoring everyone else. And he was more than willing to do that because he is a badass. But people are so impressive. I'll say it again. I know. Wow. In order to do that, though, he needs to distract Clifford, perhaps by faking a heart attack, like secretly tell the others, I'm going to fake a heart attack when I do dart under that table and stay down. Do not come up. Then while he's faking said heart attack, he could jump Clifford again. It would be a suicide mission, but everyone else would likely be saved. And he was good, good on that. As he's contemplating, Clifford is getting again, more agitated with police, not complying with his demands. So he pulls out a notebook and has everyone go around and write their name and their next of kin. So police know who to notify. Uh-uh. It's horrifying. Terrifying. After they did this, Clifford made one of the hostages call the radio station yet again and read the names of the hostages and the next of kin, Titrisha, who was still sitting there with the hostage negotiator and he directed her to quickly write down every single name. He says, when she wrote down Lloyd Prescott, the negotiators like, oh, wait a minute. Fuck yeah. He's one of us. He's one of us. This guy's a cop. I know him. There is a cop in there. Fuck yeah. And the negotiators actually with Salt Lake City Police Department and Lloyds with the Sheriff's Department, they all know each other. They have it. It's fine. It's fine. They got it. He right. Yeah. He radios in. There is a cop in there. Hell yeah. This is the point where Sue's condition is drastically declining and Lloyd knows time is of the essence and he needs to figure out what the best move is and figured out quickly to get everyone out of the situation and get Sue help. That's when he noticed something else about the curling iron. Friendly reminder again, Clifford is holding this thing open the entire time. Right. So he notices that instead of using contact plates, Clifford wrapped wires from the bomb around the clamp of the curling iron. And whenever Clifford's hand is getting tired, he switches it to the other hand. And every time he did that, the wires would would shift and loosen. So it was creating slack. And if there's slack in the wiring, the bomb may not go off. Like it thinks it needs to be a lot tighter than that. Even if he let it go. So you're saying the wires are keeping it open, essentially. Well, no, the wires are connected. The the it's assembled in a way. I don't know the ins and outs where holding the clamp open is the reason the wires aren't touching and therefore detonating the bomb. If he lets go of it, the wires tighten together and they'll touch. I think that's the plan. But he notices even when it's held open, the wires are loose and they're sliding. So he's like, those wires aren't going to touch even if he does let go of it. This is a faulty system. You say wire. I'm thinking they're like, why are you plug it in and it's wrapped around? Oh, no, there's thinking of a. Yeah, you're thinking of a. Thinking of a. Now, yes, I am. Not the outlet wire, wires that are connected to the gym bag. Sure. So so Lloyd sees this and he sees them switch hands because his hands getting tired and he's like, those wires are moving. They're slack. This may be a fault if it's even again, if it's even real, could be faulty. So this this could be a great thing. Unfortunately, when Lloyd noticed that Clifford noticed the same thing. So he was like, oh, shit, the wires are loose. So he had another hostage get tape from the bag and why and has its hostage wire tape the wires to the curling iron clamp to prevent the slack. So he fixes it. I hate that job. Oh, I know. But in order to get the hostage to get the tape the way he wanted it, Clifford does put the gun on the table. I still think it's connected to the strap, but it might not be at this point. This is where I'm confused. Or the strap is long enough to where he can place on the table, still use his hand. And it's a little bit out of reach. It's not directly onto his wrist. So Lloyd thought this might be the time he just put the gun down. I don't think the bomb is fixed yet. This could be the time. But no, not yet. My God. Lloyd next, I mean, Clifford next had Gwen peek out the blinds that look into the main part of the library. Like there's windows in the conference room that look out into the library. Blinds are down. But he says, go look out the window and tell me who's out there. And she's like, a hundred SWAT team members. Coffee, SWAT team, guns, the whole nine. What do you think is going on out there? Right. Of course, this really pisses Clifford off. So later when he asked her to do the same thing, she lied and said, no one's there. No, they all left. They left. They were bored. They were bored. What can you do? They left. You're good to go. No one's out there. Goodbye. Did she actually say that? Yeah, she actually looked at she said, because he became so mad the first time he kept having me look out there. And so I just started saying, I can't see anybody. This hostage situation is boring to them. Yeah, they're like, I think we've got better stuff to do. We have a plane to get. Right. We got to talk to the National Guard. Finally, just after 2 30 p.m., it's been five and a half hours about Clifford's in another rage. He told police to stop putting him off and start meeting his demands. And they again had until Monday. Oh, Saturday. God. So he tells Gwen he's done with this. He tells Gwen to start cutting pieces of cords at various links, one for each hostage, and this was going to determine their order of execution. No. Oh, I drew the shortest was going to be killed first and so on. Uh-oh. Don't worry, though, the execution would happen Monday when his demands, when his demands were not met. So they're supposed to sit there for two more days knowing the order of the. Oh, my God. Again, what a mind fuck torture the entire time. So Gwen asked him, where do I get cord and how do I cut it? And Clifford told her everything was in his bag, which is now on the floor by his feet. And when he looked down and gestured to it for this fraction of a second, he was distracted and Lloyd bolted out of his chair, pulled out his gun and yelled, Sheriff's Department, everyone hit the floor. Everyone hit the ground. Sue barely lucid rolled off the table and got under the table. They heard boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, four shots fired. No blast. Oh, I've been looking forward to this burger all day. Tell me about it. So tasty. Oh, where's Harry? Who's Harry? Our child. Oh, yeah. At Burger King, kids eat free between the 27th of March and 20th of April, only on the BK app, so you can enjoy a moment's peace this school holiday. Just don't forget them. Get one freaking junior meal with one selected adult burger meal only available on the BK app at selected restaurants. Can't be used with other promotions. Full TNCs at Burger King.co.uk forward slash kids dash offer. Did I do five shot booms there? I don't know. Four shots fired. No blast. Clifford dropped to the ground as did the curling iron, but there was no blast. Clifford started getting up and Lloyd said, don't move or I'll kill you. Clifford responded, I'm already dead. Then he chanted Krishna, Krishna, Hare Krishna, which is a Hindu mantra. The SWAT team bust into the room and Clifford was pronounced dead. Oh, via self or void. Void. Shot the ever living shit out of him. OK, well, I don't know. I don't know. What did you think was the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom? I thought that was when he said I'm already dead. I thought that was a suicide declaration. Oh, no, no, no. OK, so Lloyd did it. Yes. And actually, Lloyd said he waited. He tried to wait as long as he could to make sure everyone was down. I mean, obviously, Sue is in horrible condition at this point. He said he waited as long as he could before he started just ringing out shots. And he could not believe that that Clifford did not get a shot out. He said he waited. Wow. He could have a gun. Probably wasn't loaded either. It was so. Oh, no. So Clifford's dead. Thank God at the hands of Lloyd, the SWAT team bust in. The hostages are safely taken out of the room. And once it's cleared, the bomb squad went in. Hell, yeah. After observing the bomb, they determined that it was too risky to try to move it to a safer place for detonation. So they did it right there in the comments room. And when they did an explosion ignited so powerful. It destroyed the room. The bomb was 100 percent real and very deadly. It was modeled after a Vietnam era Claymore mine. Clifford's time in the Navy taught him a lot about explosives. He knew a lot. The reason it didn't go off. Yeah. When Clifford realized that the wires were too loose and had the hostage put tape on him, he put too much tape on it and it ended up being too thick to even close. So the two wires that would have caused the bomb to go off couldn't touch. Oh, God. So Sue, the diabetic who made a full recovery, said there were two miracles that day. The first was Lloyd. The second was a piece of tape. Oh, wow. Or who was it that put the tape on? The hostage, but he didn't know he did it wrong. I mean, and Clifford didn't either. Clifford directed him to exactly what to do and he did it. So Clifford didn't know that he was putting on too much tape. But thank God. Yeah. So when the bomb squad detonated it, the explosion also spewed nails, razor blades, shrapnel everywhere. The room was destroyed again, like I said, but the table was not. None of it penetrated the table. Lloyd was right. They likely would have been safe under the table. But someone was definitely looking out for them that day. Yeah, it would have been very risky. And again, with that project was Lloyd. I know with that plan that he had with everyone dropping, doing as they were told, which he like applauded every single one of them was like, they acted so fast. No one was confused. No one took a second. They did it. Had it gone off, he and Clifford definitely would have died. It was very explosive. Wow. So cops, Ray Clifford, Clifford's hotel room. Remember, he had been living out of a hotel. They discovered combat magazines, combat gear and ammunition and scraps of paper with notes and foreign countries listed on them. There were also various demand letters similar to the one he attempted to have mailed out, all of them were signed Clifford Lynn Draper hostage taker. Wonder what the fuck. So he had been playing this for a very long time. Yeah. In the letters, he also aired some grievances to the government, which proved that he was a hateful piece of shit, saying that he was, quote, sick of being forced to live amidst ignorant blacks, Hispanics and especially, especially, he says, the mentally ill homosexuals. OK, he'd. OK, this is working talks. I'm going to get my mind right for this. I'm going to make sure coffee. Take a big ol' sup. Oh, those mentally ill gays. He declares that he, quote, I'm going to say quote because I'm telling you this is verbatim Clifford. I'm not paraphrasing. No, I mean, I am paraphrasing. I'm not reading the entire letter, but quote, he protests and defies the ultra liberal feminists. He also said he wanted homosexuals to be moved into an area and provided their own government and society so he wouldn't have to be exposed to it, which is crazy because actually I feel the exact same way about homophobic, hateful, big, banished. We have a bomb. Society, right. Banished them from society. Bombs are not. If you feel this way, get the fuck out of here. Also, the amount he lays into his hatred of gay people. I'm like, you carry. I see it. You strike not Lloyd. I'm sorry. Not Lloyd Clifford. You curious? Yes. Give it a try. You want to your overcompensating. We know what you're beating off to at night. Explore it. Explore it. You might like it. Embrace it. You want to. Yeah. The most telling he tell he says that because of all the aforementioned groups of people, he's been denied his rightful place in society. And essentially that's not fair. There it is. Excuse me. Because of the groups of people he just named. Uh huh. Black people, gay people. People. Yeah. Ignorant. Most people he does say. Most people. Poor people. He says because of them, he's been denied his rightful place in society. I'm like, there it is. There you have no place in society. I'm not sure why you sound like a joy. Right. Joy. Treat. Um. OK. So that's that's why he's so angry. It's because of them. He can't find his spot. How old is this goon? He's at this point 30. OK. Well, that is no one else's fault but your own. And also he doesn't he's sick of being exposed to poor people. He says, Clifford, Cliff, you're homeless. What? Get exposed to poor people. I hate them so much. Uh. I'm so. I'm going to voice fry over it. I hate him so much. He is a peach of a man. And then lastly, he was very disgruntled about the lack of nicotine gums and patches on the open market. OK. Have the cigarette. You know what? Yeah, I'm not the cigarette. You can have the cigarette. Just do it. This is insane. Just do it. Oh, God. How do you always find these? Lones, head, I know, again, losers. I know. Clifford, tell me you're an incel without telling me you're an incel. Come on. He really. God, he is. There was ever a stupid Nazi incel. I mean, Clifford's. Yes, here he is in the flesh, dead on the floor of his own making. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's an asshole. He hates women. That's very clear because he has been rejected his whole life. And also he's not into him. He's not into women. That's what I'm telling you. I'm telling you. They're telling you. Anyone who overcommitates that much and that big focus of these letters, I'm like, OK, OK, that's a mask. That's a hell of a beard. Hell of a beard you're wearing there. Not a good look. Not a good look. So he ended his letters. All the letters are ended with I will not be used and I will live free or die. All right. Calm down. And and he's dead. Die. Clifford's family members, including his parents, were still living in Arkansas at this point, and they learned about Clifford's death during the evening news that night. They hadn't heard from him in six months. You know, he's like, yeah, transient. It's one of those where they just hadn't. They knew he was mentally ill. They I think they had spoken to him and he didn't seem like he was doing well. And he needed medical attention. But he that's how they learned. They had no idea what was going on. They had no idea he would go to this level like that. Sad. Yeah. All the hostages came out unharmed, including Sue again, who received immediate medical attention and made a full recovery. But this had a impact. Oh, my God, I can only imagine on a lot of them. So first Sue at first, Sue thought she was happy to talk about it. She gave a few interviews. She thought it was very cathartic. She wanted to thank Lieutenant Prescott and the police for saving her life. So she was like from immediately like happy to do an interview about it so she could thank them. But after about three years, the incident took a toll on her and her life started falling apart. It's sad. She lost her job. She lost her home and the avenues, which was a historic, which is a historic neighborhood in Salt Lake City, big Victorian houses, very weird side note. And some of y'all might appreciate it. I know Rebecca will. A lot of the Halloween movies were filmed there. No, like Rachel's House and Halloween, Halloween's four and five. Yes. That was filmed at a house in the avenues. OK. Five oh nine third Avenue. OK. If you'd like to know. Sheriff Makers House and Halloween four where that horse seduces Dawson from Dazing Afused also in the avenues. Yes. A lovely area, big houses. She's wearing a shirt says cops do it by the book. That's right. That's the avenues. So gorgeous neighborhood. Yeah, I do appreciate that. Thank you so much. Anyway, sorry. So poor Sue, she ended up moving back to her hometown in Southern California, drifting between family members and friends living with them. She started seeing a therapist and was diagnosed with PTSD and depression, which was attributed to this traumatic experience, obviously. She said it started haunting her every waking moment of every day. And we've talked about that before, where this is a more likely outcome to a situation like this. It's very nice to hear the highlights of like the positives that come out of these circumstances that gives people a new outlook on life. And so charities are started from a one down. You know, this is all which is all great advocates or people advocate for other victims, all fantastic. But this is also a very sad outcome where it traumatizes someone more than they will ever know. But Sue did write an article in 2014 for Catalyst magazine, which again, source where she reflected on that day 20 years later and said that as she was slipping into a diabetic coma, she was overcome with a feeling of love, peace and joy. Another thing we've talked about a lot. Yes. She was dying and she went into what she refers to as the other side. She said goodbye to all of her friends and family. She had no judgment. She had no grief. She was so happy. But the moment Lloyd screamed, Sheriff's office, get down. She felt herself being pulled back to the physical world. And she started saying, please no, don't make me go back. I don't want to go back. But it was too late and her soul reconnected with her body. She opened her eyes, rolled off the table. And she made her realize her purpose for existence and for that she is now deeply grateful, but it was a big challenge getting there. Isn't that goosebumps, goosebumps for days? And that's literally what Jennifer Aspenson said. I'm a lot of our victims. I mean, I know a lot of the victims say that, but I almost worked for work. I was overwhelmed with love and peace. I wasn't mad. I said goodbye to everyone. I know it's a love. The idea of that. Me too. So yeah. And at the time of that article, she was living between Northern California and Atlanta. I mean, that was over 10 years ago. So I don't know where she is now. But she seemed to have a better situation going. OK, good. It also very much impacted Trisha, the program director of the radio station. She didn't even realize it either. She went back to work that Monday morning and she had a morning show with two other morning show hosts. And they were talking about it that Monday morning, kind of joking around about it. Like she said it was funny. She was kind of bantering back with her two co-hosts saying like, oh, like, wasn't that crazy? Like, wow, like, sorry, I only played certain bands for four hours. Like, you know, I was dealing with something like it was all fun. And she got off the air. The show ended. She felt totally fine. But when the show ended, she got a phone call from a police officer who said she didn't know him, but he had listened to her for years. And he heard that morning's episode or that morning's show. And he told her that she may not realize it, but he could tell she was not OK. And she should start therapy and the city would pay for it. Oh, so beautiful. She started therapy. It worked wonders and the city paid the bill. Are you kidding? Can we discuss? Yes, it makes me really happy. Yeah, happy and emotional. And like, first of all, that that cop called. Yeah. After she was joking, bantering, no one else suspected anything was wrong. She suspected nothing was wrong. He called and said something's wrong. Yeah, we can I can tell. And worked it out before he called that Salt Lake City would pay for her therapy. What that happened today, I'm sad to say, I don't think so. No, it's just so nice. Yeah, he went like that should be true everywhere. She shouldn't need a reason even. Therapy should be free. I don't know. But anyway, but I wonder for another hour. Yeah, but like that he took his duties above and beyond. You serve and protecting in more ways than you know, sir. That was beautiful. So she said she would never forget that act of kindness. Why? I don't know. Because kindness are so sweet. And someone correct me if there's I mean, I know there's nonprofits that would probably fit the bill for that, but like I talked to city officials and we're going to cover your therapy. I'm sure they did it with other hostages, too. A lot of them stayed out of the forefront. But like how nice. Please correct me if if if that is a thing. If that would happen in like today's state government, I don't know. Just I was just acts of kindness. So nice. Yeah, yeah, it gets it pulls out your heart strings. I get it. I mean, so love whoever made that call. Yeah, Trisha's fantastic, too. Everyone's fantastic. People helping people is so moving. It is because we can do it every day and we some some do and some don't. Yeah. Obviously, Lloyd was incredibly celebrated. He was awarded police officer of the year and President Clinton honored him. Yeah. He didn't love the attention. Oh, the talks of what a hero he was. He is wonderful. No, no, he's like, I was just doing my job. Lloyd, actually, here's the quote. I don't feel like I did anything I shouldn't have done. I just I just did my job. Oh, my God. He did not want to take a life, though. But he knew he had no choice. It weighs on him, though. Oh, I'm sure. He said that I will never be able to forget it. It will never be taken lightly. I will never laugh about it. You never get over it, but you learn to live with it. It weighed on him. He retired from the department in 2016. He's done. Well, I'll get to what they've done. So when I find it so admirable when people don't want praise for their heroic actions, I want praise every day. Yeah. Well, I love a good reassurance on anything I do. I want positive feedback all the time. I love positive feedback. And I don't do it. Did he get it? Yeah. Boy, did he get it? He's like humble, but he's like, oh, I don't want this attention. I'm like, I just want to talk to him. That's what he's crazy attention. What a sweet guy. Yeah, but you're a monster. Lloyd is, I mean, an angel on earth. No. So you stick to podcasting. We're going to keep Lloyd over here in law enforcement. Got it. Well, until he retires and brava. Gwen, the library employee was also celebrated for trying to deescalate things and tend to Clifford's every request while remaining calm. She was known to be very sweet. So like she was the person to do it. One of the other library employees attributed I laughed out loud at this. OK. I laughed out loud. OK. The library employee attributed Gwen's ability to stay calm to her experience in the children's section of the library saying it helped her and helped her grapple with the chaos of the hostage situation. Sister, Gwen has been taken hostage by these little shits every single day. This was nothing. This was nothing is what that that employee said. I was like, oh, she did. That did train her for this. Just these she had 12, three year olds with who were armed with snot rockets. She grappled with the chaos of the hostage situation because of the children's section. That is what they said. It is hollier. I love every moment. Amazing. Amazing. I mean, I guess she's right because Gwen stayed calm. Yeah. And I think Gwen still works at the library. Really? She's an angel in Earth too. She definitely did in 2019. And her link. Seven years ago. I know. But listen, her LinkedIn still says she does not as a librarian. She's like, pro grant. I can't remember the title. But she may have a security. It should be. Uh huh. She I know I can't remember the title, but it wasn't a librarian, but it still had that as her employer for all these years. But I mean, I don't update my link. I said, she's probably still says. So she probably does. So she might not. But if not at the most, she was working there as of 2019. Yeah. I kind of think she does though. Lovely. Which I hope she does. Oh, she's an angel. And that is the insane story of the library hostage incident. Clifford. Gwen. Draper. The reason I said that 10 is the most accurate number of postures was because Gwen and Lloyd have done several interviews there in the hostage. The America's Most Wanted that I sourced, but they also didn't I survived. OK, so and they said that I think that the people saying 18. It was so early on. I just have a March 5th. It was like articles from like March 6th, 7th. They're probably counting like, you know, toastmasters who escaped and all that. I don't know. Wow. That is incredible. And I love the outcome. Were no one died except that piece of shit. Piece of shit. Homophobic skinhead. Everyone. Yeah. And thank God again, obviously for Lloyd, because everyone says even the cops who helped navigate an action plan before knowing Lloyd was even in there said had Lloyd not been in there, it would have been a much different story. And had it worked out in Clifford's favor, this would have that would have been the biggest mass martyr to date in Salt Lake City. Oh, wow. Wow. So in saying and saying hero, a heroic tale on our 200th episode. That's that's that. Thanks, everyone. Patrons, thank you so much for joining. You have no idea how grateful we are for all of you. Sally, yeah, Sally, April, Adam, Ariela, Mimi, Tessa, Merritt, Sierra, Brianna, Lexi, Sarah. Pew, it says Pew. I'm going with Pew. Pew. What up, Maple, Jesse, Shannon, Amanda, Denise, Andrew, Leanne, Savannah, Shay, Sharon, Sharon, Shereen, Shereen. Rev. Wait, Rev. Sarah Saller, it says R-E-V, like Reverend. Oh, sorry. Sorry for all the cursing. Sarah, Alyssa, Trim, Sarah, Naomi, Leela, Sarah, so many Sarahs, Anna, Taryn, Megan, is this right? Olivia, Hannah, Bridget, Emily, Emma, Julia, Jill, Rachel, Maggie, are you serious? Clarissa, wait, Clarissa, Katie. Wow. Wow. I had the list ready, but like had it in Patreon because the exports not working. It's the whole thing. You don't want to hear about it. Yeah. But then so sorry I read that like real crazy and really sloppily. But y'all are the best. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. You're the best. People are the worst. Homophobic skim heads are the worst. The absolute worst. But they'll die. It's actually I want to point out too. It's rare that the one casualty in our story. I know. Hell, yeah. It's a dirt bag. Yeah, we can talk shit about the one casualty. That's amazing. Good riddance. Bye bye. Bye. This episode is brought to you by hers. There's a lot of noise around weight loss right now. Trends, opinions, medications. It can be very overwhelming to know what actually works, what the side effects are or who to trust. And I know you don't want to be stuck in another frustrating cycle. That's what I want to point out. I want to point out that you're not just a person who's not a person, but you're a person who's not a person. You're stuck in another frustrating cycle. That's where hers comes in. Because reaching your weight loss goals doesn't have to mean completely changing your life. 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