The Mistake Parents Make When Siblings Fight

Why can't you be more like your brother? It's like, why aren't you as good as your brother's sister, the one that I love the most? That's all they're here. How can I best support my toddler in processing his feelings and learning safe, appropriate ways to interact with his brother? Their love language is fun. It's not discussing big feelings and big emotions. That's ridiculous. That's the mini therapy sessions that are just, I know it's trendy, but it's garbage. Now, you often refer to what you think is a mistake that parents make when siblings are fighting. If they're fighting, they're often fighting over injustices. And one of the injustices that they see is if you welcome to the Brat Busters Parenting Podcast. My name's Lisa Bunnage. I'm a parenting coach. I'm a mom. I'm also a grandmother. And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter, and I handle the marketing and planning here at Brat Busters. While I don't have kids, each episode will dive into parenting topics, and Lisa will answer your questions. Let's get started. Okay, what is today's topic? Today's topic is all about siblings. I don't think we've talked a lot. I think maybe we talked about siblings fighting, sibling rivalry, but I don't remember just a topic playing siblings. And we might, are we going to be talking about the age gap too? What's a good age gap? Stuff like that, just general topics. Yeah, I think we'll start out maybe if you want to talk about age gaps. Okay, there is no, nobody knows what a good age gap is. That's ridiculous if someone says the perfect age gap. It might be perfect for certain personalities, but you never know what kind of kids you're going to shoot out. Are they going to be best friends or worst enemies? There's no prediction on what's going to be the best age gap because every child has a different personality, right? So, but I, I'll just tell you my own personal experience. I always thought two years was a good split. So I had my son and then I planned to have him another one two years later. And, but then I had back surgery because I kind of already had a bad back, but then the birth made it worse. And then, so I had back surgery and then I miscarried. I had multiples and I miscarried at about three months. So then finally there, I had a child, my daughter, and that was five years later. He, my son turned five, two weeks later, she was born. I didn't plan it that way and I wasn't disappointed. I was just thrilled. I had a healthy kid, especially after the miscarriage. But I would have planned it that way again. Now everyone's different. There's no perfect way of doing this, but I love mothering. So I got to, if I'm only going to have two kids, I got to stretch it out longer. That was a really positive. Plus my son started grade one and then I had a newborn to focus on. So it was like I had all those five years with just me and my son, you know, like us bonding during the day. And then I had another one to focus on. My time was never split. And also with my son, he was a really gentle little boy. So if I wanted to go hang the laundry up or something and she was crying, I would just basically, I'd put him in front of the TV and put her in his lap. And he'd just sit there with her. So I had a little helper too. And, but yeah, I like the five year gap, but I don't think there is any perfect gap. You're definitely going to be busier if they're two years apart. Having a toddler and a newborn is physically very draining. So I didn't go through that. So, but I'm not saying it's negative, you know, if you're ready for it. A lot of people think they're going to have kids who are best friends. They might be mortal enemies. So you never know. So you've got to weigh up all those decisions. And there is no perfect answer to that at all. Yeah, you've talked about the fact that there's pros and cons to having different age gaps. And I can imagine as well, you've talked about this before. We were just talking about it, about how when you went from one kid to two, you could not envision how you would possibly love me the way that you loved my brother. No, and I never did. Turns out I was right. No, I mean, of course, it's not that you, you're, you love them less. You're just, your heart gets bigger, right? And it's like, I've got a granddaughter now. And I know when another grandchild comes along, I think, oh, could I really feel the same way about another one? Of course I would. You know, so yeah, it's just, it just happens. Like the second they come out, it happens. So now what advice do you have? Because I can envision if you have one child, you're, let's say your child's two or three, and you're having another one, I can envision you're trying your best to prepare to get them to get along as good as possible. What advice do you have for those parents? Well, I don't have any perfect advice put it that way. But I, I really try to tell parents, you really want to include that young one in as much as possible with the baby. Because the baby isn't talking yet. So they don't, you don't have that same relationship. Like with my son, I thought, I thought to myself, I'm going to resent a baby coming along and taking my time away with me and my son. Because I love talking to him so much. And he was just such a little buddy, right? But no, she wasn't talking. So our relationship really didn't change. But when they're two and three, it's more physical. And that does change. Okay. So that's why it's really important to include the young one in as much as possible. Whenever you're doing something with the baby, you don't have to be playing with the two year old, but you can be talking to them. Okay. A lot of parents don't do that. They might say, I got to go feed the baby now. I'm going to go in my room and feed the baby. I would have the two year old with me and I would be reading a book while I'm feeding the baby. Or I would have them feeding their baby or something. You want to include them in as much as possible. And like I said, you don't have to be physically doing anything with the toddler necessarily, but just talking to them makes them feel special too. So yeah, just try to include them as much as possible. And even then there's going to be a transition time. You know, they're, my son didn't go through any of that because he was so much older and our relationship really didn't change. But usually with a two year old, yeah, they're going to go through a transition. Because also they don't really understand it. My son was old enough to understand it, right? Whereas it too, they don't understand new baby coming into the house. They're like, what? You know, when is it going home? When is it leaving? They don't understand it's permanent. So there is a transition time. It might be a little bit bumpy and that's to be expected. Also, you cannot expect your kids to be best friends. They might be by the way, but they won't necessarily be. It's not mandatory. Like in other words, they might just not connect. They might not have anything in common. They might be total opposites and get along. Or they might have a lot in common and not get along. You never know. Just because they're siblings doesn't necessarily mean they'll be friends. And that's why a lot of people want to have them close in age, is because they want them to be friends. There's no guarantees with that. Okay. It could happen for sure, but it might not. Now you often refer to what you think is a mistake that parents make when siblings are fighting. Yeah. When siblings are fighting, it builds, okay. If they're fighting, they're often fighting over injustices. And one of the injustices that they see is if you do one on one time. Now they might, let's say they're two and three years old, or three and five years old, whatever, and they're fighting all the time. They don't care that you're, have quality time with one for 30 minutes and quality time with the other for 30 minutes. They could care less. If they're fighting and there's resentment between them, all they care about is that you're excluding them and playing with the other one. Even though you're doing it fairly, they don't care. So you never do one on one time with your kids if they don't get along. Okay. You want to make sure that when you're playing with them, you're playing with them together. So you're facilitating them getting along at the same time. And also don't play anything competitive and you play to the youngest one's strength. So in other words, they can be included. You wouldn't play something that the younger one couldn't play at all. So it should just be a silly game. It could just be hide and seek. It could just be arts and crafts or science experiments. Something that they could both do kind of equally, but there's no competition. But yeah, don't do one on one time that quality time with each child. It builds resentment and it makes everything worse. Now, do you see parents possibly siding with one sibling over the other if maybe one sibling's a little bit more defiant than the other? I see it all the time. And they'll never admit it. Oh, sometimes they will. They often pick a favorite and it's usually the easier one. So, but it's not that you love them more. It's just that you want to be around them more because they're easier to be around, right? You got to be careful with that. Kids pick up on that. They know that they're very annoyed that you're very annoyed by them and they know that you're not annoyed by the other. Is it justified? Yes. It's not the point. The point is that it still upsets them even though they know that they're annoying and the other one isn't. It still upsets them that you're annoyed by them. Does that make any sense? I think what you're saying is that as the parent, it's your job to take the high road. It's your job to treat them the same basically or be very, very fair with them, even though one is more feisty. You're usually going to get one that's easier or harder than the other. It's just that's natural. Because I feel like you do hear that when you just at school, I would sometimes hear kids who had siblings and they'd be like, oh, my sibling gets everything from my parents or they're the one who's spoiled or, you know, it's just the injustices in that way where maybe the parents devote way more time to one sibling. Like how do you even that out? Because obviously it's not going to be exactly 50-50 with kids. It isn't. But I think they know when you love them both the same. I remember both you kids said this to me once. Oh, I don't know, something was happening and you both pulled this card on me once. And I am not a mother to be manipulated. And one of you said, oh, you love or probably you would have said it first. Oh, you love him more than you love me. And I said, of course I do sweetheart. I could never love you as much as I love him. And she went, oh, never mind. Like in other words, I cannot be manipulated. They knew I love them both exactly the same. But I love different things about them. They were different kids. But I could never love one more than the other. And they knew that they were just testing me. But I wasn't a yellower and I didn't show anger or anything really with my kids. So they didn't feel that hurt. OK. But if you do yell at one of your kids and not the other, then they're going to feel less loved. They just will. OK. So that's when I say you want to treat them equally. You never want to show anger, frustration, and disappointment to either one of them. Even though you may feel it, one's really disappointing you in some way because they're acting out a lot. You can't show that because that's what makes them feel the lesser kid. Now, what about the phrase, why can't you be more like your brother? That's the same thing. Yeah. It's like, why are you as good as your brother or sister, the one that I love the most? That's all they hear, right? I don't love you as much. What's wrong with you? That's what they're hearing. Yeah. As soon as you say, well, I can't be more like your sister. So parents will say to me that they've had this conversation. The kid will say, well, how come you want to spend more time with her? How come you never yell at her? And then the parent will say, that's because she never causes trouble. But I say to them, you shouldn't be yelling at even the one who causes trouble because that is what brings them down. It lowers their self-esteem. Is it fair and just that you do yell at one and not the other? Yes. But like in other words, if you're going to get mad at one, of course you're going to get mad at the one who causes all the trouble. You just shouldn't do it. You just can't. It's showing favoritism. Just because you're not yelling at one, you're yelling at the other. It's showing favoritism. Favoritism doesn't always come with spending more time with one. It often comes from sort of often being annoyed with one more than the other, or less, more than the other. And that also makes them feel like they're the lesser kid. If they're the one being yelled at all the time, they're going to feel like the lesser kid and that they're less loved. It's only natural. Now let's say maybe you're listening to this and you're like, okay, I maybe resonate with that a little too much. How do you go about doing something different? Like how do you start? Start with a behavior board and it teaches you how to discipline in a really business-like way with no emotions. It lays it all out. The behavior board is completely free on my website, bratbusters.com, and it teaches you how to start disciplining and treating it like a business. There should be no emotions involved in disciplining. Like if I was disciplining kids when I was working with them, I'd say, oh, that was an interesting choice you made. Here's what we're going to do. I kind of whispered, there was never any anger, disappointment, or frustration, or anything like that, because negative emotions just make them feel worse and more defensive. It brings their self-esteem down. I treat bad behavior like, yeah, just something we're going to correct. Okay. I didn't treat, I didn't want them to feel ashamed of doing something bad. I wanted them to feel like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. Okay, I'm going to make it up and then I'm going to move forward in a better way. Like I don't want any shame attached to bad behavior. Hard to do. Parents want to shame their kids all the time. Why would you do that? You know better than that. Stuff like that. That's the shaming, blaming, and bullying. Makes them feel worse and they're going to keep doing it. But I can imagine as well, it would be tough because these are real humans, real, real lives that you're dealing with. Like this isn't just happening when everything's going well. Like I'm sure you're dealing with high stress. You got a lot going on as a parent. Like I can envision you're not feeling positive and cheery and upbeat all the time. That's true, but you can't show the anger either. And I know it's difficult. It's like, I sort of compare this to let's say dieting. You can go to a diet center and they can give you the best advice, but it's your job to go home and follow that diet. Like you can't stop by a fast food place and load up on your way home and then complain that the diet isn't working. These methods, they're not perfect. I'm sure maybe there's flaws in them. I don't know, but it's worked for me for 50 plus years with tons of kids. And that's where I learned all this stuff. I'm pretty confident in my methods. If you apply them, but if you don't apply them, they're not going to work. Or if you just apply some of them, you got to be pretty consistent across the board. And I would say the number one thing you want to do with your kids is connect with them, play with them, have fun with them in their world. And then the second thing that we want to do is you want to correct their bad behavior. So if they do something naughty, just have them have them be accountable for it. Okay, but there's no shaming, blaming and bullying in that. There's no discussing bad behavior. You just say, yeah, that was bad. They know right from wrong past the age of about two to three years old. They know right from wrong already. So stop talking about it. Stop explaining all this stuff. They already get it. Just say, yeah, that was bad. Here's your consequence. And then you want to connect with them. Okay, even if they've got 24 hour media blackout, that is the time you want to connect with them. Once they've calmed down, they've stopped telling you they hate your guts or whatever, because you've taken screens away for 24 hours. Soon as they've stopped going on about that, you say, oh, well, do you want to play a game? You see, you want to connect with your kids. That's what makes them feel good. The connection makes them feel good. And the discipline shouldn't make them feel bad, but they can be mad. Okay, they can be mad that they get a consequence, but it shouldn't make them feel bad about themselves. It's your emotions that make them feel bad about themselves, not the punishment. Just before we get into parenting questions, you do sometimes get asked, let's say somebody is a parent of a 18 month old, but they also have a four year old kid. Let's say they're looking at your courses, which are the boot camp courses. You have them split up between a toddler and then three to 12. Where do you recommend they look? So you always work on the older kid first, because the younger one's going to get there anyway. So you always work on the one that you've had the longest, okay? Unless you've got a real target kid, like let's say you have five kids and the youngest one is three or let's say two, and they're the one who's the real problem, then you probably get the toddler one. The other ones are all easier, right? So, but generally I would suggest you just focus on the older kid, but the free behavior board has a toddler section in there. That might be all you need to just get going with the toddler anyway. But yeah, always start with the oldest kid first, because you've got the least amount of time to work with them. Okay, should we get into the questions? Sounds good. The first one is Sam from the United States. Siblings ages two and three, there's an 11 month age difference. Question is, what is the best approach when they are screaming in each other's faces at a very close distance? Two meltdowns at the same time, only one of me. I try to separate them, but the screaming continues. I would find out who's the cause of it. There's usually one that's more antagonistic, and it's usually the younger one and knowing the older one, because they want to play with the older one, and the older one keeps ignoring them until they act out, and they do something rotten to get their attention. So it usually is the two-year-old. I would get a real eye on that. I'd be watching them like a hawk, if you have like one of those cameras or something, because they might not act out when you're right there. So I'd be watching that like a hawk, and then I would move from there. So let's say the two-year-old is antagonizing the three-year-old more. I would go in and I would play with them more and show them how to... You know what's interesting is a lot of parents throw a lot of toys at kids, but they don't always sit down and teach them how to play together. So that's what I would do. I would get in there and I'd say, look, you've got this and you can have that man, and you can have that man, and you can play with them. They're going to go in the garage or whatever it is, or the dollhouse or whatever. So show them how to play together. A lot of parents are just so busy breaking up fights, they forget that they've never shown them how not to fight. So yeah, I'd get down on the floor with them and show them how to play together. But you want to know what you're dealing with. Is the two-year-old frustrated because the three-year-old's always excluding them? That is usually what's going on. Not always, but that's usually the case. I can envision that as an overwhelming situation though. Two little kids screaming at you. You got two little ones and they're a year apart. You're going to go through stuff. I mean, it's just a real physically demanding time. Okay, the next one is Tracy from the United States. My four-year-old daughter loves to play independently and is not interested in playing with her one and a half-year-old sister. In fact, the second her sister walks over interested in her toys, the other one starts to scream or will become physical, like put her arm out, so her sister does not get too close. If I remove the toy calmly and say no blank toy for 24 hours, it becomes a complete meltdown with screaming instantly. I also say no kicking or no pushing. Do you have any other suggestions on how to deal with her being controlling and unwilling to share or play? I think you're being unreasonable. I'm on the four-year-old side. When you were four, did you want a one and a half-year-old disturbing all your play? So yeah, I think you're being unreasonable. I would say to the four-year-old, look, you've got a baby sister here. She's going to get into everything. You've got two areas you can go to. You can go to your room up on your bed where she can't get to anything or have a separate area. Say, look, you can go in your room. I'm willing to put a gate up so she can't get in there. Or you can go on the dining room table and that can be where you set up your toys. If you do, and then you can have stuff that you will are willing to play with her and then negotiate that and say, well, what do you want to play with her? I think it's unreasonable to expect a four-year-old to be patient, having a one and a half-year-old wrecking all their toys and whatever they've set up. I think you're being unreasonable. I could be off on that, but that's my gut reaction because this comes up quite often in coaching. Well, you know, my five-year-old will not play with my two-year-old. And I'd say, when you were five, did you want to play with a two-year-old? And yet you expect you probably didn't, right? So why would you expect a four-year-old to want to play with a one and a half-year-old? I wouldn't. If they do, that'd be great. Actually, my son, he was five years older, he did want to play with her because she became his little servant. Whatever he said, go get that. Go get that. She'd go and get whatever he wanted. And then she was three and she said no to him one day, changed everything. But yeah, there was a bigger age gap there. But yeah, if she'd come in and wrecked his stuff, he wouldn't have been happy with her. No. Okay, the next one is Norma from the United States. My 18-month-old has a 12-week-old baby brother. Initially, he struggled with smacking, but with consistent redirection and modeling gentle behavior, he's made significant process. He was showing gentleness, touching softly, kissing his brother's hand, and responding well to guidance. However, very suddenly, his behavior has changed. He started aggressively grabbing and biting his baby brother whenever he has access to him. If the baby's toes or fingers are within reach, he will bite hard, and he appears to watch his brother scream or cry. I now feel like I have to be on constant defense to keep the baby safe. I understand that my toddler doesn't fully know better developmentally, but I'm worried that the reaction his brother cries may be reinforcing the behavior. What's especially confusing is the regression, since he had been doing so well with the gentle interactions before this began. So I'm hoping that you can help me understand. There's a few things, so I'm going to go one by one, and we'll go through them. So the first one is why... Let me just address the regression. It's really common for them to do that, because as they mature, because he's still really tiny, he's only 18 months old, okay? As they mature, they will try different things. So that's why I say toddlers are nuts. They don't become sane at 18 months, and everything's great, and then by 24 months, they're still there. They might try new stuff. They might regress. So that's completely normal that a toddler at that age will regress. Okay, the next one is, what is this behavior communicating developmentally or emotionally? I don't know. It's just communicating, hey, wait, I'm sick of this baby being around. Is it really going to hang around forever? Maybe initially he thought, well, this thing's going to be going away. I don't know. I don't know why, to be honest. But what I mean is there's not always a good reason. It's just he's just decided to do it, and maybe the baby's crying is maybe what's feeding it. Big reaction, right? Now you said, I feel like I have to constantly watch the baby. Yes, you do. I would never leave a toddler alone with the baby ever, ever. So yeah, you have to watch. You have to be constant, constant watching. And also if he's getting hits and bites him, he can't have access to the baby. Like what I'm saying is just completely protect that baby from the toddler. He'll get bored and move on. If he still has access to upsetting the baby and listening to it cry, that's a powerful move for an 18-month-old, okay? He's giving him some power. So just don't, you're letting him do that. You're giving him access to the baby. Stop doing that. He'll get bored and move on. I can understand what this parent's coming from, understanding why the behavior is happening, is I think that there is online discussions about every single behavior. Is your child communicating something with you? Okay. If you're watching the podcast, you did see the look that my mom gave. Are your kids driving you nuts? They don't have to. Check out bratbusters.com for my bootcamp courses if you want to learn how to become a leader. Yeah, and there's not always a reason for it. And that's the thing is toddlers don't, there's not a lot of common sense there. So you're trying to make sense out of nonsense. They're just going to try stuff. There's not always some big complicated reason. It's like bite toe, screaming. Wee, that's about it. There's no big feelings or emotions behind it. It's just kind of fun. Don't over, don't overanalyze them. That's a big mistake. A lot of people overanalyze toddlers. They're pretty simple. The next one is, how can I best support my toddler in processing his feelings and learning safe, appropriate ways to interact with his brother? Processing his feelings. I don't talk like that. You know what there's love languages is fun. And if the more you play with him in his world, the less likely he is to be aggressive. Okay, so, and then if he does act out, you got to address it fast. A lot of parents let stuff go because they think, well, he's been pretty good. I don't let anything go. If I've got a toddler who gets aggressive, I just say, oh, okay, we'll try again later. And I might get up and walk away for just a few minutes or whatever. So you got to let him know right away. But yeah, connection. Their love language is fun. It's not discussing big feelings and big emotions. That's ridiculous. That's the mini therapy sessions that are just, I know it's trendy, but it's garbage. Anyway, their love language is fun. They want to play in their world. They understand that you're not, that they understand when you're putting all that energy into them. They just, you can just see it. Okay, they look at you differently when you play in their world. And the final question is immediate strategies to protect the baby while still supporting my toddler's development. Do you maybe want to discuss the idea of having a feeding time? Well, one thing I'd be wearing that baby. Okay, so rather than putting it down and giving the toddler access to it, just wear it. My kids were raised in Australia. You couldn't wear babies there. It was too hot. But yeah, if you're able to, and if it's a cooler climate, I would just have the baby on a sling on me all the time just to not give the kid access. Plus, when you're playing with the toddler and you've got a baby right there, he doesn't see the baby as a threat because you're sitting down and he hasn't got access to it because maybe it's strapped to you, whatever. And then he doesn't see the baby as a threat and he can still have fun with you with the baby around. So, and then with feeding, I was talking about that earlier. I don't know. Was I talking about that just earlier, about the feeding time? How you want to connect with the toddler while you're feeding the baby? Don't exclude them when you're feeding the baby. Don't exclude them when you're bathing the baby or anything else. They can be right there and that can be your time to read a story or tell a story. So, you want to make the feeding time, the bathing time, the changing diaper time. You want to make that time that you connect with your toddler too. You're trapped with that newborn while you're doing those things. Perfect time to sing with your toddler. Okay, connect with your toddler so they won't see the baby as a threat. If the baby keeps taking them away from you or you away from them, they're going to see the baby more as a threat. I'm going to go feed the baby now. Well, why is the toddler not with you? Bring the toddler, sing songs with them, stuff like that. Yeah, connecting with them. We have one final question. So, Chandler from the United States, three and a half year old son and seven month old son. My seven month old is starting to crawl around and get into his big brother's toys while he's playing. I've told him before that it's something that he doesn't want his little brother to touch while he's playing. He can go to his room and play with it. But if he's in the living room, everything is fair game. He has recently started growling at the seven month old if he gets close to what he's playing with while in the living room. Do I need to remind him all the time about going to his room to play with something that he doesn't want his little brother touching? Is this something that'll go away as my leadership gets stronger or can I put this on the behavior board? I put it on the behavior board. If he shows aggression towards the baby, just, well, it's not really aggression. He's just letting them, he's probably letting you know, to be honest. But anyway, the baby, very good that you said to him, you go somewhere else and you play with your toys or else it's fair game, perfect. So, I would say initially I'd say if you do get upset with the baby, if you choose to play where the baby can get access, then if you do growl at the baby, there will be a consequence. And the consequence might just be that you take that toy away right away. I might even just do that. Take the toy away. Just whatever you're playing with will go away for the next hour. You could even just do it for a half hour even. Because he's old enough. He's not two. You couldn't do this with a two-year-old. This is a three and a half-year-old. It's different. Well, that was it for the questions. Okay, so siblings. There is no perfect way to space them out. There's no, and there's no perfect way to parent any child in that, there's not one way. I mean, I always say that my methods are pretty sound, but you know, I was, I parented my kids a little bit differently. In that my son loved to be teased. I was always diving out of closet scaring him, but I didn't do that to my daughter. She didn't like that. Scared her. Well, scared him too, but it was great. And then when he was a teenager, he was really good at it and pay back time. He scared the bhajibis out of me all the time. So I did have to pay for that later on. But you know, they're all going to be completely different. So you have to also take that into account. And if you start comparing your children, I did that all the time though. I compared you guys all the time, but not in a negative way. Like he was, I'd say, well, this is your thing. We like doing this together. And you like doing that. My daughter liked to dance. And so I compared them, but not in a, how would you explain that? I don't feel like he had to compare us. No, I don't think that's a real. No, I don't think that's a fair thing. But they were very different is what I'm saying. A boy and a girl and she loved dance. And he loved video games. And, you know, he loved Lego and all that kind of stuff. You know what I think it was, is that I think that you were talking about our strengths and you were not sugarcoating it, that one of our strengths was the other. But I think that you definitely discussed the fact that like he had things that he was better at. And I had things that I was better at and that's okay. And I didn't think they should be the same at all. I love the fact that they were different and made it more interesting. I absolutely loved that. And I love the fact that they both brought out different things in me. And I learned different things from them, you know, like I learned how to sit through dance recitals for hours on end with my daughter. You're welcome. I gave you the gift of that. The gift of patience. So, you know, you learn different things with each kid. So I guess comparison, the right word, but I did really value the fact that they were different. I thought it was wonderful. So, you know, you're gonna have, your kids, you're gonna have 20 kids and they'll have completely different personalities. And that's really normal. Actually, it's more normal for twins and triplets to have different personalities. I've heard because if you grew up with someone at the exact same time and they went on to be really super funny, wouldn't you maybe look for another strength? Wouldn't you look for a way to be different from them? So I've heard that. It's quite interesting. I heard that like 50 years ago. I remember that. And they said twins are more likely to be different than just normal siblings because of that, because they want to have their own identities. I thought that was fascinating. So whenever I get parents who have multiples, I'll tell them that. I said, I don't know how true that is, but, because they'll often say, how can they be so completely different? And I said, well, you know, let's say you had a sibling who was really good at something. Would you try and compete with it or just find your own thing maybe? But yeah, siblings are fascinating. They won't always be best friends, but they might. It's just lucky if they are. But appreciate the strengths that they each have. And focus on that. And don't expect, and also you don't want many means. You know, oftentimes parents will get a kid that's just like them, and they really connect with that kid. And the other one they'll call the black sheep. We've all heard this, right? The black sheep. And I say, yeah, but that black sheep is going to teach you probably a lot more about yourself because you're going to have to stretch yourself more to understand them better. So respect that. You don't want many means. You don't want the kids to be just like you. It's fine if they are, you know, if they're very similar. But also you want to respect their differences too. So I think I was really good at that. I love the fact that you guys were so different from me and different from each other because it made us more interesting, I think. I think we are interesting. You know, we find ourselves fascinating. Anyway, I think that's it for this time. Siblings, it's a, there's no relationship like it. Even if they hate each other, they'd probably go to war for each other. So there's that real connection there. Anyway, thanks so much for listening. We'll talk again soon about another parenting topic. Happy parenting.