#608 - Jim Norton

Listen up. Huh? That means you. Yes, you. We know you're pointing at yourself. When it comes to party power games, we've got a place made for all sorts. From the experts to the drama queens. It's me, the JC. The finance bros. Look at those stocks, lads. We'll stick with slots. It's what we're good at. And not forgetting you. Yes, you, the one listening. Because at party power games, we've got all sorts of games for all sorts of trickles. Eligibility rules in terms of conditions apply. Please come by responsibly. 18pluscameralware.org. Today's guest is his first time on the podcast. He's a legendary stand-up comedian and host. He helped give me my start in getting on the airwaves. He has a new special on YouTube called Unconceivable. And his own podcast called Jim Norton Can't Save You. Today's guest is the one of one, Mr. Jim Norton. I'm just telling you we can get started you want to whatever you want. Yeah. Yeah, I was just telling you that I feel like on. Yeah, you can move around. All right. He's letting me know if I'm off Michael. I'm obsessed with that to with sound like where I'm interviewing somebody if they're like they're off Mike. I'm like, fuck on them. And you know, I feel horrible the other day I did it and I did somebody's podcast and I chew gum the whole time. We've had that. Yeah, it happens. But the fact that I did it, like I do it for a living. I know. How did I do that? Every day it still haunts me a little bit. You chew the gum? Yeah, just feel because I'm like, you know, we came they came and we all put our time in, you know, just to be there and do it. And I fricking dislike, you know, sometimes you show up and you just you do the most bush league thing. I'd like to ask them, did you notice it while it was happening and did you want to say something? Because we've had like, we had Marin on one time and he was eating like oatmeal or something the whole time or chewing something. And the fans were furious and were like, why didn't we just say something when he was eating? Sometimes when you're hosting, you don't tell the person like you're chewing gum, stop chewing gum. Yeah, he should have told you embarrassed. You feel embarrassed. Yeah. But he still should have told you. I mean, I've had instances where somebody's mouth will be very dry. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Yes, that fucking sticky fruit roll up sound. Yeah. And you know, all you can think of is the listeners being like, this dry mother fucker, this fucking pasty mouth idiot. Yeah. Yeah, fire survivor fucking showing up. And it's so true. Like it, but you can't sit over there and like baby bird, somebody, some water, but you want to say to them, like you want some water and then they don't know, like, no, it's like when someone's breath stinks. You know, like you want to get a piece of gum and I was, no, I'm good. You know, you're not good. Yeah. So, you know, but trying to be courteous. Yeah. You want me to pressure wash your face for a second? Like that's another thing you could offer them. But you see like how you just said that. Now I'm making sure I'm opening my water. People have to be self aware too. Like anybody who's doing something, if your mouth is pasty and dry and sticky and sounds like shit, you should be aware of it. You have ears. Yeah. Yeah. And then that you just realize, oh, that person is offline. They are just not, they don't know what's going in. Or sometimes it'll be a woman's lipstick is a little thick and it kind of just a little crack. Yes. A little poppy. Yeah. That stuff drives me crazy. I pick up on it and I sniffle a lot. I fucking like I'm I I'm a noisy, uncomfortable to be around fucking person. Like I get it. So I have no right to tell other people, but like I'm always clear. Clear my throat. It's really fucking horrible. Yeah. Well, as we get older too, it's just like you're just like kind of a you're just hoping that every now and then you you're a little bit of the semblance of what you once were. Yeah. Oh, no, I've given up on that. I've thrown in the towel. I will never again be what I once was. And I was only mediocre to begin with. So I went from mediocre to kind of shitty. But it's funny. Like I'm so self-conscious about how I look and my wife is like, oh, you look fine. And I got a text from a gut fell the other night, a random text. He's like, hey, man, I saw you on the kill. Tony thing. That's a good look for you. That's a good weight for you. Like so people are telling me I look OK, but I'm like, I don't feel OK. I feel fucking fat and just mushy and my neck is fat. I just dropped 20 pounds. Or you want to drop? Well, it's funny because I saw you last night. I was like, man, Jim, you kind of look. I feel like you have looked better as you've gotten older kind of as you've grown more into an adult. Thank you. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I look back on my old pictures. I'm not impressed with them either. So I can't go like, I want to get back to those days. So I can rush, rush back to what? You know, do you ever feel like because some of his comedians are so uncomfortable? And I was just I was watching you have a you have a newspaper special that's on YouTube, Unconceivable, right? And it's so funny because I've thought of things being inconceivable for. But to go as far to be like unconceivable, like I should never even have been like contemplated. Fuck, that's intense, dude, because I think at the depth of some comedians and artists and not not trying to sound like like we're special. But we're fucked up. There's something a little wrong with a lot of people in the world. Yeah. And we choose to try to put it out there. Sometimes all artists do even strippers. I think they do that in their way. But like, like there's something like God, I should never even have been here. Well, the reason I named it that honestly, people thought I fucked up and spelled it wrong, but I didn't. It's unconceivable on purpose. It's an old way of saying it. It's actually technically correct in the English language. But it was also like a nod to my wife, who is, you know, cannot conceive, obviously. So it was also gotten that far through it. Oh, OK. Yeah. It was part of about 20 minutes in. Oh, OK. Yeah. Yeah. I talk about her. It was it was part part of it's about her being not able to conceive. That was kind of why I called it unconceivable. Oh, I see what you were saying. I thought I guess I just took that somewhere in it just because you've always kind of operated on the fringes of like depravity or what's OK in the world. Sort of in your own space. Is that OK to say that? Oh, yeah. It's 100 percent accurate. But if it was about me and my existence, I would have called it should have been a load and a sock. That's what I would have named it. Yeah, it should have been a practice around. Yeah, I should have been like, I should. Yeah, like I should not have been in the gun. No, no, no. My father should have wiped me out of his belly button with a Duncan Donuts napkin. Shemoke and remember the doughnuts. Dude, you turned me on to that. Yeah, the the ice coffee, cold, cold, cold, cold, cold, cold, coffee. Her name is Edna Fouse. And I remember we love them so the joy we got from them. You gave me that joy, dude. And I've showed that over the years. We've had people sitting here and I'm like, you got to see this. Because the thing that's amazing about Edna is was her her deductive reasoning was that she knew that like ice coffee, a cold coffee. Like she's just watching her go through the clues as to what to call it is why I love her so much. Yeah. Drop it real quick, because I also want to tell you, Dutch came to one of my shows one time. You met Dutch. I met him. Dutch and Smith. What is last? Dutch, what would he do? Just Smith. There you go. A coffee shop in Shemoken is closed following an arson over the weekend. It's definitely going to miss it. No doubt about it. A teenager is charged with Oh, I never saw this part inside the restaurant on Saturday night. Shemoken police officer Ray Psycho says no one was hurt, but the place has extensive damage. Psycho says the fire was started inside the women's bathroom. The toilet paper dispenser was lit on fire and within about a minute, the entire place was filled up with smoke. The mother did explain that she's recently been put on new medication but as far as for one reason, we're unsure right now. The 13 year old who is admitted to setting the fire is currently at a juvenile detention center. Many people who live in Shemoken are upset that Dunkin Donuts is closed. Now I have to rely on myself to go to maybe a turkey hill or something where I don't like their donuts. I rather the donuts at Dunkin Donuts and I'm kind of dealing with it, but I really miss Dunkin Donuts. I go to every day. I get a chicken, bacon, croissant, coffee, power rate from dehydrated. I sit there all the time. If I have any legal work that I need to do, I go there. I meet with my attorneys there. I'm going to miss that place one day if it don't open up. And my friends go in there, get the cold coffee, ice coffee, I guess it's called. Oh, there she goes. Figures it out. She knows Edna Faust's unsolved mystery. She gets to it and Dutch Smith doing his legal work. I mean, there really is. And by the way, I hate to bum the podcast vibe out, but the first woman at Turkey Hill Donuts, she passed away. I'm almost positive we did a deep dive on her. And I do think that unfortunately she is no longer with us. God, she seemed like the most healthy of the three of them, I thought. She did, too. She's definitely the one I was. If I had to be attracted to one of the three, it would have been a Faust was a close second. You could play Faust in like a biopic one day. I would love to. Brian Dennehy right now has her. But I think. Oh, but Dutch Smith came out to a show, dude. He's doing great now. So but that was amazing, bro. But yeah, you put me onto this and I and I've like shared it with so many people over the years. So thank you. That was such a bizarre. I remember it was on with myself and I was on the opium gym. And I think that was the show. And yeah, we would play all these weird clips and once in a while you find one. It's like, fuck, that's a gem. Yeah, that's a gem. But I never heard. I never had any follow up about Edna Faust. I'm dying to know how she is. Because I think she's the best. Yeah, let's put it. We'll put it out in alcohol. Hopefully somebody can send something in, man. And we'll see if we can get a little follow up the Faust over there outside of Turkey Hill and Dunkin Donuts and Shemoken. They've rebuilt it, by the way. Oh, they have. I have. We did follow up. They have rebuilt the Dunkin Donuts and it's a big thing in Shemoken. I was going to stop in there, go into a gig one time, but I'm like, no, I can't. I just I cared while I was on the air and as soon as I was in cars, I fucked Shemoken. I'm not stopping. It is funny how you make little plans like, oh, I got to be. And then things come along, you're like, let's just keep hitting the stay on the road. Stay on the road. It was fun in theory. It was fun to think about and to talk about. But now that I'm actually going to be 25 months out of my way that way. And then 25 minutes out of my way that I'm not doing it. Yeah, welcome. Yeah, fuck them. Yeah, fuck them, dude. I. Yeah. So unconceivable was your wife because your wife can't conceive. You're married now. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And do you feel like you kind of get like, what was it like? Because like there was your first marriage. My yeah, hope of my first and hopefully my only. Yeah, I only did it because we when she came into the she was having a hard time. So we did a 90 day fiance visa to get her in. So we got married 90 days after she came in. Otherwise, I would have just dated. But it's OK. You fight different when you're married because you can't just go fuck you get out like you're there. So you got to resolve it faster. To go back to your corner, kind of. Got to go back to your corner, kind of. I used to have three and four. Like I would fight with girlfriends and then they would leave. And then for three or four days, I would just have hookers come over. Like it really was an ugly scene. And this is a lot, a lot easier, a lot cleaner. Yeah, does this feel easier? Kind of like do you feel like you kind of escape? Because I mean, I got like a lot of, I think, commitment issues and stuff like that. And I just feel like, man, at some point I got to escape, like not use marriages and escape, but I would love to not be kind of trapped just in this stupid circle that I get in sometimes. Yeah, it's like it's almost like it's a lonely spiral to like I forget. Like whenever I get pissed at her, I'm like, yeah, but I was really depressed when I was single. Like I wasn't happy when I was single. I was miserable. I hated being alive. So if I fight with her and I'm like, this kind of sucks. I'm like, yeah, but it's not it's me. I'm the problem because if I'm single, I'm even worse than I am right now. So no, I don't want to. I like being married. I just sometimes when you think I'm married, you're like, fucking life is over, but I'd prefer this. Yeah. Yeah. At least you have someone to be there with you in your life. You're like, and you kind of have a donkey to pin the tail and you're like, fucking. Yeah, the wife. Yeah. Fuck her. What is she? What? Yeah. If there's things are wrong, I don't have my fucking wife. It's also a good excuse, though. Like, I know my wife's not feeling well. I got to go home and see my wife. Like there's little built in things that are kind of advantages that I didn't see. And I'm glad I did it because if I didn't do it, I would still be running in the same. That's why I've fattened up because I literally am not doing the same things I used to do on the road to get like those little mini highs you get. You know, now I'm just in the hotel room alone. And what do you do? You order food at two o'clock in the morning instead of having somebody come over. Yeah. It's not as fun. So your and your wife is your wife is trans. Yes. Transgender. Yes. Transgender. Yes. OK. And so what does transgender mean exactly? Because people use the term all the time and it's hard to go to like such rudimentary stuff. But what it means a man and a woman. Yeah. Like you're born in a male body. And you know, they have never they can't say exactly medically what makes a person transgender. That's why there's so much arguing about it's up to speculation. Some people like, ah, you're just a crazy fucking guy in a dress. And other people like, no, you're you're born this way, but they can't tell you medically exactly what it is in the brain. But yeah, she definitely was born in a male body. But if you talk to her for five minutes, you know, that's a woman's brain. But I don't I would lose the argument in court. I don't have the argument in court. You know, she definitely does not have a vagina. Yeah. You know, no, she's not at all. OK. You look. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's not even a penis. I mean, it's a cock. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Wow. Were you able to discern over time why you liked something so unique kind of like, is that a way to ask it? Yeah, you ask what you want. I mean, I don't know. Like it's one of those things where when it comes to sexuality and attraction, what makes a person like what they like? I don't have the answer to that. It's it's a it's a it's a pull. It's like you don't choose what direction you're going to get pulled in sometimes. Yeah. For me, attraction has never been like, I'm going to go over there and like that. It's going to be something hits me and I kind of like lock into it. And I feel it and it pulls me that way. You know, I mean, but I'd be the art kind of in a way. Yeah, kind of. Yes. Yes. But the living art, one that you can really just, you know, slap against your face. Yeah. Yeah. Art you can sit on. Dang. Do you ever go places? Um, now, do you have say if you are dating someone who trains, do they ask questions like, why do you prefer this? Or is that like something you kind of have to make clear to them a certain way so that they feel OK? Is that a. I think it's like any other relationship. It's like the in bed sexually, like fucking or not fucking or that type of stuff. No, I think even just like on a person, a person basis, like, do I seem like a trophy to you or do I seem like something like a novelty or like a nice piece of jewelry to like, you know, this artistic collection piece? Or do I do you really love me because of who I am? Yes. And I think that any any person, any person has to like, you know, as a guy with money, you have to wonder, hey, does this woman like me because of who I am or because I have money? And with her, she could be like, is it because I'm transgender that he wants to transgender? I think that with any person, you kind of like, you just, you know what somebody's motives are after a while. Yeah. And if you're with someone as a trophy, like, if I'm just like, hey, I mean, we've been on and off for like, I mean, back together since 2019. So six years and we were a year and a half before then. So by this point, after seven or eight years, you know, what a person like. I was like, well, does she like me? Does she like because I have money? But there's a lot of guys that have money and there's a lot of trans people. So if that's all we want, that we could easily go out and find somebody else who fit that criteria. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's beautiful. Thank you. Um, yeah. And you see, you guys live together, huh? We live together. I put her up. She immigration was very slow. It was just one of those things where she had something she had to get fixed. And we did we did it right, but it's just, you know, it's a slow process. So while she was waiting, I moved her to Montreal and I would drive up and see her. And I wound up spending the whole pandemic there. I drove up to close the Canadian border. So I drove up one day after the radio show and I just stayed for 15 months. I was out of the US for 15 months. It was crazy doing the radio show from there. Just live is my first time living with anyone. And it was in the pandemic in a one bedroom in Montreal. Oh, my God. If we can do this, I can make this work. Like if we can, because Canada was even panicky more than the US about covid, you know, eight o'clock curfew, you know, they were really crazy up there about it. So I'm like, if we can make it through this, we can be OK, you know, in New York and having a life together. So was that kind of a moment for you? We're like, OK, this is a big thing that I was able to do and that gave you the because of like sometimes I'm a question like, how do I get to those next places? I think when you're kind of like, you know, I'm not 40, I'm single. So it's like, you're like, well, I ever get there. You know, what's really going to change? Was that like a thing that really made it kind of different for you? Yeah, that that made it like, OK, this is a real thing. Like I had never done that with anybody in the States. But we were forced to because if I came back to the States once, the border was closed. I would not have been allowed back into Canada. So I had to choose between like being in New York or my life with her, like leaving her alone up there for we didn't know for how long. So it was kind of like a loaded gun to your head, like you're here or it's over. And doing that, I was just so grateful to be with her and so like grateful to actually have a chance. It was like a test run. You got to do a test run and see like, do I want to be with this person? And we got along like way better than I would have thought. And so life here is fairly easy compared to that. Wow. But easy in a married way. Like everything people told me about marriage is true. Yeah. Yeah. Sucks. I mean, you know, you got to answer to somebody. Somebody's in your space. Somebody is like, the shit I hang on the walls. Like I don't like answering to a person. Nobody does. No. Well, I think it's one of the reasons, especially like with comedy, you just work for yourself. It's just you up there. There's nobody that's telling you the crowd tells you it's fine. I'll accept it from a group. I'm not taking it from one person. Yeah. You know, it's like it's a total space of complete control. Yeah. And it's very like I like the fact too, that like when you're with someone, could we talk about our lives on stage? So like I've been with women who got so angry at me for the things I said about our personal life and she she doesn't care at all, which I love. She loves the stuff I talk about, like our personal life, no matter how how embarrassing it is or how personal it is or how intimate she doesn't care. She's like, great, go ahead. Do whatever you want to do. She doesn't give a fuck. Yeah. I guess if you're cuddling up at night, I mean, both there's people have wieners in the bed. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have a wiener. She's like, you know, yeah, you don't, you don't spend 100 grand on immigration lawyers for a dick smaller than yours. Oh, that's a good point. Oh, yeah. Tara Fett Trump. Well, yeah, yeah, she'll like that. A lot of people get mad. Why does he talk about her janitor will shut up? And do you notice other men? Like if you're around the guy, do you think there's like a lot of curious guys who are into that universe that are afraid to talk about it? Yeah, they ask questions. I never mind, though. Like I'm not again, and that's why I joke about her the way I do, because she's unbendable with that. She doesn't care. And I don't I couldn't have married a fragile personality. Like, no, not you. No, you've always been very your own way. And like aggressively your own way, but also in a kind of I'm OK with where I'm at. Yes, you've never been in this apologetic way about yourself. No, and you can't like, you know, I want you people to be respectful to your your partner when you introduce them and everybody's been nice. And you don't want people to be dicks, but I don't care what people think. Like you can't live your life and care what other people think. I have fun with her. She's my favorite person. Like she's the person I should have married. Like and do I get guys that are kind of curious? Yes. And I get a tremendous amount of messages from people who are like, hey, man, I'm really glad you talked about that because I and I don't talk about it in some serious like nobody wants to be scolded. Nobody wants to be fucking lectured. Yeah, be with whoever you like. Like, you know, I mean, and if you're worried about what other people think and you live your life for other people, you're a weak motherfucker. And then just deal with that fact about yourself. Yeah, I've had moments in my life where I like didn't have certain girlfriends, I think, because I thought some of my friends wouldn't be impressed with them. Maybe we've all been there. Yeah. You know, just when I look back at it at certain moments and not like in a self pity type of way, like I'm like, but when I look back, I'm like, man, I wish I'd, because in some ways I am my own person, but in ways like that, I think I don't know. I had some I had some tough times with it kind of. But growing up, I think it's kind of common to I mean, you know, I'm a guy in my fifties now, saying this, like, you know, I mean, coming up when you're a really young guy, it's a little bit different. We're more worried about what other people are going to say about us and more like what if the like, you know, that whole that whole tidal wave of disapproval from people, what are they going to say? And after a while, you're like, I've been through it so many times, I just don't care. Yes. Like, you know, but I've had fighters even asked me, like, like, hey, bro, does she like like, but asking legitimate, not trying to asking questions that they'd be afraid to ask publicly because people think it was rude, but they're things that they wanted to know. Yeah. And I never mind answering that stuff. Yeah. It's not some giant sacred subject. You know, you just talk about it like you talk about anything else. You know, it's so funny. I always think like, I know you love the UFC and you and Matt Sarah. Matt Sarah. Yeah. Have at a show for about a decade now. About eight or nine years. Yeah. UFC unfiltered. I Dana just called me one day. He goes, hey, we're doing a podcast. Matt's going to do it. You want to do it? I'm like, OK. He goes, all right. And that's how it was done. So cool. It was just a phone call. And I think it was 2016. We started. And did he fight? He fought George St. Pierre a couple of times, didn't he? He took the title from St. Pierre. He's the last guy to beat St. Pierre. And then George beat him in the rematch and took the title back. But Matt, Matt is probably the most exactly. I think he's going to be guy I've ever known. He's 100 percent genuine. Like, there's no bullshit with Matt Sarah. Like, if he likes you, he loves you. And if he doesn't like you, he can't pretend he's he's one of those guys. Like, he can't pretend he likes somebody. Doesn't like I love him. I have such a good time with him. He's really funny. That's awesome. Very grounded guy and fighters respect him. Like when fighters call in because he's a legend, I mean, he did the impossible. It's the biggest underdog story in UFC history. So when they when they come in, they all love talking to Matt. Like, you know, I mean, I'm just kind of there. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, you and then for Matt, you know, so it's kind of humiliating every week. If you've ever worked with a legend, it's like really like, wow. I mean, like you see the respect he gets from fighters. I'm happy to see it. One thing that amazes me about UFC, like, I think I'm there's a there's a like a symbioticness between I feel like fighters, comedians, strippers even, like of trying to show yourself to like trying to show something about you to be seen, right? That's a little bit abnormal. Do you do you think that makes any sense a little bit? Like, because I also feel like I relate to some of those people like on some kind of a level of like, we're just trying to be seen somehow. I just I just for me, it's that way anyway, you know, like sometimes it's like fighting. Would you think like a kid, a young kid really wants to be out there punching his brains out or he's just trying to get seen by like somebody in his life or some, you know, I don't know what motivates people to fight. Like some people like come out of poverty and it's just they see they can do it. That's a way to make a living. And other people maybe they just realize they're athletic and they fall into it and they start rest. I don't honestly, it's a good question. I don't know. I would equate like what you said about strippers and comics. Like there's something about showing people something that most people keep private and wanting them to like it and and and putting it out there in a way where they can like it and they can relate to that. I definitely see a tie into like, how do I expose this thing in myself or this humiliating factor or this insecurity and get people to look at it and kind of laugh and then go, OK, like, you want people to laugh. Right. I don't want people in the crowd going, good point, Jim. No one gives a shit about that. Fucking embarrassed. You know, the applause break doesn't mean anything. Like you want to they have to laugh. It's first and foremost, you know, you almost got an applause break last night. Do you feel that one moment or was like two claps away from an. Oh, I didn't even notice it. Yeah, I did not even notice it. I just by plow straight through and I very rarely get applause breaks. You know what I mean? Maybe I moved to I never do either. But then sometimes you see guys, you know, I mean, like watching Louis yesterday, too. He get but he's on. He goes into so much. Oh, you're so bizarre by the end of some of his stories. You're so deep. It's like, what a great brain like watching him. We've been out on the road and we got a bunch more dates coming up and just watching his brain work like each bit is crafted. Like some of these things are such ludicrous thoughts. And then they just wind up the crowd agrees the thought and they go into the strange area. It's so much fun to watch like how creative a stand up can be. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And it's so inspiring. Watching both you guys, man, there's moments when I'm watching the people in the crowd. And a lot of times it feels like it's a guy and they usually are holding their girl pretty close. It's kind of like they convince the girl, oh, it's going to have a great time. You're going to love these guys and they they're doing extra. I'm going to put my arm around my girl. Make sure she knows we're here together tonight, even though he can feel them like maybe really some disdain it. Some of the some of the material. I feel people pull back sometimes, which is, you know what I mean? I talk about certain things. I feel people, but that's that's what it is. It is what it is. You know, I don't. One thing I avoid doing like I never preach politics on. It's so boring to lecture the audience. Oh, I agree. Oh, my God. I don't need to convince them of anything. Yeah, like I want them to have a good time and hopefully see it. My point, even if they don't agree with it, I want them to know why I got there. And that's it. Like you can't try to change. No one's going to walk out of my fucking show educated. Yeah, my job. I blink a lot. I dropped out of high school. No one's coming to me to teach him a lesson. Oh, he's cool. He's cool. Cool. Cool. Coffee. Dude, you had the one. I don't know if it was in an unconceivable or if it was on stage last night. It was about the military and some of them aren't mentally well. That was last night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, that's who we want over there. You think I want the fucking. I don't want mentally what you would consider mentally healthy. I don't want that. So some of you had the nervous college kid creeping around with his little gun. Yeah, I want the fucking completely deranged person. The crazier you think somebody is, the more likely I want them to be sent over with a fucking weapon. Yeah, you do. You face that. Like, but a lot of its common sense pushed back against where like I think progressives were very crazy. And I also think some of its bigotry, like people look at like it's just one thing. It's like anything in life. It's there's there's look at this, then you look at that, then you look at that. Everything is an individual thing to be looked at. There's not one answer that covers all of it. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'll have people ask me about how could I, you know, how could I probably lean more conservative in the last election? Yeah. But then also be a a a Palestine advocate, you know, it's like I don't see how any of those things are connected. Like I would never attach myself to one specific like so I'm this way for everything. That seems crazy to me. It's because people are dumb and they masquerade as these real brave truth tellers. But a lot of people are very frightened of pushback from the group that they belong to. So they do everything in lockstep with the group they belong to. That's true. You can have mixed feelings about thing like you can you can be a navigator for Palestine and and then you can also like AOC and you can vote for Trump. Like you can have mixed feelings about things. People just want to say you're here or you're there. But that's their own fear of being left out alone. They're afraid of being isolated. So they need the group. They're joiners, but they're masquerading as brave truth tellers. It's annoying. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, I do this thing where I'll be at the grocery store and I'll just I'll talk to the butcher like he's my therapist, you know, he'll be back there. He's just, you know, chopping up a chicken brisket or whatever. And I'll be like, I need help. Dang it. I need help. As fun as it is to kind of just toss your problems on anybody when you're looking for actual help about relationships or anxiety or depression or other clinical issues, regular folks may not have all the right answers. But you can get guidance from licensed therapists online with BetterHelp. BetterHelp has been helping people find their therapist match for over 10 years and have a 4.9 rating out of 1.7 million client session reviews. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Right now, our listeners get 10 percent off their first month at betterhelp.com slash thEO. That's better. H E L P dot com slash Theo is pornography causing a problem in your life. Do you find yourself watching porno for longer periods of time and having trouble stopping? Is porn affecting your relationship or dating life? Well, you're certainly not alone. Watching pornography has become so commonplace today. And oftentimes men use porn to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety and depression. Shame and stigma prevent men from talking about these issues and getting help for them. I want to introduce you to my friend, Steve. Steve is the founder of Valor Recovery, a program to help men overcome porn abuse and sexual compulsivity. Steve is a long term sexual recovery member and has personally overcame the emotional and spiritual despair of abusing pornography and has dedicated his life to empowering men to do the same. Steve is an amazing person and he is a close friend of mine. I mean that Valor Recovery helps men to develop the tools necessary to have a healthier sex life. Their coaches are in long term recovery and will be your partner, mentor and spiritual guide to transcend these problematic behaviors to learn more about Valor Recovery. Please visit them at www.ValorRecoveryCoaching.com or email them at admin at ValorRecoveryCoaching.com. Thank you. So since you ended up marrying a trans woman, cut that out. Sorry. That's what she said, too. Cut that off. That's what I was trying to go. It's almost there. Oh, yeah. I messed it up. Yeah, that's OK. If she wanted to, she could. If you I miss her. Yeah, dude, do you think we are getting more like, do you think we're getting more? I don't want to say depraved, but it's more in one view would be depraved if you looked at like these evangelical type of views or like, you know, like people that came over on the Mayflower like sexually, they'd see it's more depraved. Sure. But do you feel like we're just evolving or just adjusting into different more sexual norms? Yeah, I think so. And it's also like the depravity. Like I don't believe people's bulls. Like I don't believe the people. Some of them, sure. But the majority of the ones who are scolding and going, oh, how could you do that? And then you realize that in DC, these prostitutes are going, you know how many of these senators I fuck or how many of these congressmen I fuck? Like so I don't I don't buy any of it. Like there are people who live that way. But as far as again, a moral lecture or or a sexual acceptability lecture from some, I just I don't believe any of them. And I don't respect any of their opinions. But yeah, I think we are more open than we used to be sure. Yeah. I mean, what's considered the norm now is is different. I mean, back in the Mayflower days, if you were fucking gay, that probably hit you with a rod and what they do, but it wasn't good. Yeah, they weren't happy to see. But I bet they had. I bet there was low key a lot of support for a game in on those boats, because you're on the ship for a long time in high stockings. I mean, come on, you're going to tell me. You're going to tell me Miles Standish didn't get his asshole played with. I hope that was his name. I had to abandon. But yeah, you're telling me you're out there drinking. How many women were on the Mayflower? Let's take a gant, because that's going to help. I'm going to guess very few or none. Or none. I think that's a great point. How many women are on the Mayflower? Probably none of the five men. The number of women, most sources agree that 18 adult women began the Mayflower journey. Only four or five women. We're still alive by the spring of 1621. Oh, my God. I guess it was a long line outside each door. Yeah. Can you imagine that, though? Yeah. Hiding pregnancy. Three of the women, Elizabeth Hopkins, Susanna White and Mary Allerton, were pregnant during the voyage. And the crazy part is there's no way to prove whose baby it was back then until it's born and you look at it and go, oh, yeah, sure. But because there was no DNA testing, there was no. So 10 guys fuck you and one of them get you pregnant. Oh, well, God, can you imagine, though? Guys would just be trying to get you drunk so that they could then go approach your wife, or they would just be trying to get somebody else like some other guys, get them and another man so drunk that they could just pretend that they weren't gay for a little while. For a little while, yeah, and have sex with the woman. Yeah. Or no, no, jerk off the man or have sex with the man. But just be like, oh, Susanna just keeps saying a woman's name during it or something. Oh, and pretend like by that point, you hope that you wouldn't like it. Because if you're a fucking guy, he's got to know that you're enjoying it. And vice versa. You hope that you wouldn't have to be thinking about a woman just to convince yourself. But you might have to be like, what's going on here? You know, like there's some, I'm sure, like a stute white male or whatever who are like, you know, in some of these, you know, who are probably getting money from A-Pack or whatever, who were definitely you know, we're like, yeah, banging a guy. I'm like, what's happening here? This is, you know, like a tremor from an earth. Yeah. Man, the windows or something. You know, what's going on there? Yeah. No, I understand. What's going on? I'm going to come in this. Oh, my God, how did this happen? I must have fallen veto. Yeah. But yes, in a way, you're right, because I remember it's from when I was a kid. But I first started jerking off, you know, I would always try to think of girls, but sometimes I would think of boys. And if I thought of a boy, I was so filled with shame that when I came, I would throw a woman in there like I would like press the button. The last slide would be a girl's face like, oh, I just straight. You know, it was such self-delusion. Like, right. But yeah, in that way, you're right. It's all about shame and how to how to stave off the shame you feel about whatever it is. Yeah. And our society does adjust so much of that. And but it is interesting, like, you know, I go to recovery meetings. I'm in SLA recovery and stuff like that. And so and it's interesting because a lot of its intimacy disorders, porn addiction, there's so many things like, you know, a lot of my I'd be like, come here, stay away. Like that was like I would want something like a woman to be close to me. But then when they got close to me, I didn't want them, you know, just like a lot of like just just anarchy. It's being addicted to the hunt as well. It's being addicted to the the lead up to something happening. And then when it's happening, you're right, you're like, get away. OK, now because the lead up was the high, the lead up of the thing. And then that you're here. OK, now it's time for the next drug run, so to speak. Yeah, I definitely get that. Yeah, maybe that's what it was sometimes for me. It was like I would literally look at hookers all night. I would ride around for hours listening to Art Bell on. On NPR. No, he was on 770 or 660. Was it a wrestling ball? No, no, Art Bell was a guy. He was like in Paramp, Nevada, and he was like very big into like UFOs. And oh, yeah, that's that guy. He was the best. Oh, and he passed away. He did die, but I would ride around the meatpacking district and look at prostitutes for hours. I would do the comedy cellar and then ride around. But the ritual for me was looking and talking. And most times I wouldn't pick up. I would just ride around and look and be in that space. So a lot of times it's the whole idea of doing something even more than doing it. Like sometimes you do it, but other times it's just the idea of it. Oh, dude, yeah. Would there be certain things like during the interview process, like when you chat with them, you just kind of say and you'd every now and then you just hear a certain thing. It was like, I'll spend more time with this person. Oh, well, when I would talk to them, if I was attracted to them, sure. But if I thought they might be a cop, I was so ritualistic, like they would have to approach the left side of my window. Like there was weird ritualistic things that had to be clicked, like any addiction, right? There's these weird, this box is checked, that box is checked, and then I can proceed. But if it didn't happen, one box wasn't checked, it would wreck the whole experience. But yeah, that whole addiction is so crazy. Sex is hard. Like porn, I still struggle with porn. I have a hard time. I go into it, I come out of it. It's hard. I know. I just hate the way that I feel after I noticed. Finally, I hate the way I feel the next day after watching. I just feel a little bit like dissolved. I feel like a, like a, like the day before I was kind of a bit of a Rubik's Cuban. All the color that we're matching on the sides and everything. And then the next day, I just feel kind of broken. And it takes a day for me to get my energy back organized. That's a good way to put it, dissolved. That's a really good way to put it. Like you feel, like kind of like it's a collapsed feeling. Like and dissolved is the perfect way. You don't feel strong and whole. You know, and it's not a moral thing. It's just, it's all that weird chemicals from like your own drug administrator. Yeah. Like when you know what I mean? I'm sitting there, it's not attractive. It's just me twiddling my nip. Fucking chimp. And oh, if you had to watch a video of yourself jerking off over all the years, you'd be like, somebody shut this guy down. Somebody put this kid out of his misery. Yeah. What is he doing? This is long. Yeah. And on play, it'd be like the director's cut of apocalypse. Now we're like, I get why they took that stuff out. We didn't need the fucking dinner with the French people. Sucked. Yeah. If you had to watch yourself jerking, especially if you could add up all the time. Yeah. The amount of hours or weeks or months, whatever. You quit immediately, I bet. You'd quit immediately. And it is wasted time. Oh, yeah. It really is. Oh, the waste. And but I would do the same thing. Like if I would look at like, I would get high on cocaine, I would look at hookers online. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I would like just be looking. I would look at the photo and I would be like, you know, and then I would barter. I was like just poor and I would barter. And then you're and then but then when someone would come over. I would often take the money, put it out of the door, give it to them and have them go home. I was too nervous to have somebody like. Yeah. In my presence. One time a lady came over and she had, she said that she had to get a brain tumor taken out or something. And I was like, whoa. You know, and I just sat with her for a little while and talked about talked about some stuff. And then just she just went home. Yeah. It sometimes when you you also realize like they're real people and then you realize like, why am I doing this? Like I used to love talking to women after like I used to love the conversation afterwards. Like after sex or whatever, just sit and chat or if I would drop them off, we would talk. And I realized it's just it's a lot of loneliness. Like you're just lonely and you don't know how else to to to meet somebody. I didn't know how to go out and talk to people. So that was a way of meeting people. That's shit. I don't miss like being married. The one thing I like, like I can just call my wife and talk to like, you know, I mean, like we actually it's it's a nice, stable thing to have in your life. Like a person who you really like and loving somebody. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, you have to like them too. It's not enough to love somebody. Like you have to like talking to them. Yeah. And you have to enjoy. And we have our dumb dog and I'll just be on FaceTime with her and the dog. And I'm like, this is the life I want. The dog shits all over. It makes me furious. But it's still a nice life. Yeah. You know, I mean, compared to what was going on before, which was very lonely and isolated. Yeah, it does. It's just interesting. You get kind of like trapped in patterns over time. And when you're a comedian, it feels like you're not you don't ever have to grow. Or I don't know if it's a comedian. I don't know. I've struggled at certain points in my life to grow up, you know, I didn't realize for years that I hadn't been growing up really. I was kind of trapped, I think, for in like a child's ways a lot of times. But they were working out OK. Yes, we're in comedy. And it's like you don't have a ton of responsibility. It's all on you. You have to show up. You know, it's like, you know, it felt almost like a kid could do it. And but also there's something about that that is good, too. Like because our impression of somebody growing up and getting older was like, you know, you go up, you retire, you get the gold watch, and then you go into a home and you're finished. Like there was a process and there was a definitive end at the end of the tunnel. But when you always feel like I don't have to grow up and follow that pattern, you always feel like I don't know what's ahead of me. Like you don't see the end. Wait, say that part again. I want to hear it. You don't feel like you can always see the end. You don't know what's ahead because you're not following the pattern of people growing up. So it makes everything more exciting. You think more exciting. Yeah. And you feel like there's an endless amount of time. I don't know which direction this is going to go in. That's the terrifying part of doing things the way like your parents do it, is that you see a, b, c, d. But if you're kind of stuck between a and b in some way, you have no idea where you're headed yet. And it still feels like the end is not directly in front of me. And that makes you also continue to feel young because it's that same feeling you always had when you were young. Yeah, it's kind of it is. It's a way and I think it's a healthy way to be. I don't think it's crazy as long as you're paying your bills and you're you're decent to the person that you're with. Like, you know, it's a fun life. Like we fought to not have a boss to not have a retirement age. This is the dream life. This is what I wanted to do. Sometimes I'll be in a hotel. Man, I'm like, shut up, you fucking asshole. How many of your friends have to get up and go to a warehouse on Tuesday morning? Yeah. And you're mad. You have to drive to Asheville. Shut up. Yeah. Like, you I mean, this is like what you wanted and you got it. So with even with great jobs, there's annoying parts of it. Yeah, that's the truth. And it's fun. It's fun. You're going to get to go to Asheville. That place is amazing. Did I remember the first time that's one of the true the blessings? I think of having worked in this job is like, like, I got to go to La Crosse, Wisconsin, dude, blew my mind. What is it? It's a town in Wisconsin is like this beautiful, like hill, kind of small mountain right on the edge of it. And it's just amazing, man. It's like we were right there like the weekend before Halloween. So you had like all the kids being like brought home from their parents after school and their costumes and the leaves are all fall. It just looked like you couldn't. It was like the perfect place to grow up is what it looked like. Do you want kids? Yeah, I want to have kids. I do. Yeah, I just think I would like to do it. I would like I think it will help me like just not think about me. You know, you start to get exhausted of yourself. Yes. And they say that's the one that's the thing. Kids open up that thing. And I know that by not having kids and I've never wanted kids. I don't feel like I'm saying no, never, never. Nikki, want them? She would love to adopt. She would love to see you getting something cool. I could see me dying and then her doing that, which is great. I told her, like, when I dropped dead, do what you want. So my stupid kiss posters and get yourself a kid. But I've never wanted it. I don't feel like I don't dislike kids, but I don't feel it. But when I hear somebody who wants them like that, it does supposedly open up a part of you. And everyone I know who has kids says it, like it's a good thing. And you start thinking about something other than yourself and your purposes other than yourself. Yeah, for me, I haven't had that. So maybe that's why I'm half miserable, fucking idiot. In my fifties on Japanese kiss poster, Washington Heights, like a fucking idiot instead of worrying about my kids soccer game. You know, I mean, maybe that's maybe you're right. That's that's probably it opens up that part healthier. Going back to like, if you had if you were able to, if you're is there part of you like because you said that if I died, then my wife could go ahead and get if she wants to get kids. And that's fine. Is there a little part of you? That's like. That still feels like having a family in a weird way. Like at least I was able to help and support somebody and create an environment for them to have a family. Like in a weird way, does that make any sense? No, but it's when you say it, it sounds really nice, but it's never occurred to me like again, I feel like with my wife and a small dog, it's such a different life than I ever had. Like it's 100 percent different, but I feel like that's my family. OK, got it. But you're right. Like I am facilitating for someone to have if she wants them because I tell I'll be dead long before you. Like, so do what you want when I'm dead. I don't care. Yeah. I'll be out of my shit and, you know, find some young fucking Latin guy and, you know, have a great life. And she would believe me while they were still powdering my face in the casket, getting fucked. They should have a tattoo of you on the guy's back, though. That would be kind of nice. Or on his stomach, so she really has to look at it when they're intimate. No, I shall do what she wants. I just never wanted it, man. I don't have anything against it. I respect it. All my friends who do it are happy. They did it. I know I watched Bobby Kelly go like from being a single guy and then, you know, long term relationship son loves. He loves his life like that. Like it's just not for me. Like I see it and I'm happy for my friends, but I don't envy it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like when I'm around children, I never go like that instinct in me is never and it doesn't pull me in that direction. Hmm. Even around my nephew, so I love very much. I would love them and hang out with them, but it never made me want to go have a kid. Got it. But I don't know, maybe that's selfish, right? Maybe I'm a selfish. Maybe I maybe a selfish. So also to have them like I wouldn't have them just in order to get me out of my own ego jail that happens sometimes. I mean, I know it's like, yeah, I would like to be able to have like, I think part of me is like, I would like to be able to create a safe experience for a child in the world because I don't know if I felt like I had that a lot of times. I felt like I want to try my best to fill in some of those holes that I didn't have to because I think our lineage kind of deserves that somewhat. And and I think since I really love love that childhood stuff and a lot of like the emotional side of it, I think I could probably service that pretty well. Right. So I would like to like respectfully try my hand at that with a woman who is a very loving mom who wants to be a mom and with a kid who is willing to, you know, be, you know, just be my son or daughter. Well, you would actually like, you know, because you have this, like you said, we don't grow up, there's a lot of time to have fun with the kid, too. Like, you know what I mean? Like in our life, it does afford us a lot of things that most people can't do. Like you can book a gig on the road. If you want to go to Hawaii, you book Hawaii and you could bring your family. Most people can't do that, right? They have to schedule it around. Like I'm not doing radio for the first time in 20 years. And it's so weird not having a schedule. It's so weird not going, OK, well, Labor Day Memorial Day, like this is when we get off. This is when we don't get off to just be able to go on the road and do what I want to do is a very foreign feeling. I love it. Yeah. Nice. And having a kid, you could do that. You could just book a place, not that, you know, having a kid and having a radio show are the same thing. But you, I don't know, you got to get up early. Yeah, you're right. It kind of sucks. You kind of don't want to look at the people you're talking to. Yeah, exactly. Having a kid. It's like any other partnership. Yeah, the food sucks. The food sucks. Yeah, the hours are kind of annoying. You got to wake up when you don't want to wake up. You're fucking cranky through most of it. Yeah, your partner's there. Fuck them. You know, yeah, it's like, yeah, because they made it in before I did. You're like, you're happy to be here, aren't you? Yeah. But I do. I do kind of miss it a little bit. Like I miss the structure of it, but I also like not having it. Oh, it was so much fun when you guys had. I mean, I only got to go when it was open. I actually came when it was Jim and Sam, too. OK. But I never got to go when Anthony was there. Yeah. But it was fun. Like, I mean, that was like some of the first times I ever got to be in a place where like people got to hear my voice that were like paying attention. Yeah. Like we talked to Bobby Kennedy on that show, which was on you guys's show, which was crazy because he and I became friends years later, which was wild. Was he in studio? Like, I think he was in studio with us, wasn't he? Like for some reason, did Robert Kennedy just call in? He called in. Oh, it was a phone call. I thought I saw a picture of all of us together. And I'd never heard of him. And I thought he'd been like electrocuted or fucking, you know, or people were fucking him while he was talking or whatever. Like, I didn't know what was going on. Those are really bizarre reasons for the voice. Yeah. Wait, is that him right there? Oh, never mind. I thought I saw that. That's myself. I can't. I don't have my glasses. That's me and Florentine and Opie. And yeah. And that's Robert Kennedy. I didn't remember that. Look how skinny I was. No, I know back then I look like a weird photoshopped version of what I am now. You look almost feminine there a little bit. I'm kind of like a white Charlemagne kind of. That is funny. And he would hate that. He knows I think he's a handsome. No, no, no, but nobody wants to be Jim Norton to be like. You kind of resemble Jim Norton. But that you're right. I it is like a little my wife hates me like that. Like, she's like, you fucking look like a little twink. You look sick. I don't like it. She like, you're not a fucking small, your medium. She makes me she never wants me to be like that again. But that's how I want to be. And it does look kind of sickly. Like when I see that, like my neck, my head, like, and I was so depressed at that point in my life. So I wasn't even happy. But you seem like you were doing great. And then Darryl Strawberry, that's the day I came in, so coked up. Were you coked up that day? Oh, bro, that's that started my that that that day. I made a story for Ari Shafir's show. And that story like that story like is when people started paying attention to my comedy. Oh, really? Yeah, I ended up on an attack, skip driving attack, skip high on cocaine. The driver had picked me up. There was a girl in the cab were dropping her off. She kind of rejected me. I didn't like make it like I just like she was laying in my lap. I was trying to like give her a kiss, you know, because you feel like she was floating, she laid in my lap and like horse. So I like, you know, whatever. And I didn't get to be aggressive, but she like was like, what do you do? And so then I felt some rejection. She she got dropped off where she was going. It was just me and the driver. And I was like, let's go get some coke. You know, we'll get some cocaine. And then it was like next two hours later, I'm driving. He has a hooker. He's bought hookers for us. He's in the back of the taxi. We're up in like Washington, Washington Heights, Washington Heights. Yep. And I have to be at the radio station then next morning at like six thirty. I get dropped off at my hotel at five fifty, right? It's a couple blocks away. I shower and I walk over there, dude. And it was the scariest walk ever because every moment of the walk was so scary. And I just was like rattled. And I got inside and I sat on the show. I couldn't even talk. I don't remember. Daryl Strawberry was the guest. And I'd always thought he was like this drug addict. And here he was pure as a driven snow sober. He's clean and sober. I think he still is. I hope he still is. But yeah, he can't. Joe Torres told us about him about the plane going in. It was really bad turbulence that everyone was panicking. But Daryl is reading his Bible in the back. So like he turned around and like has this sober life. And it's weird being fucked up around somebody that's sober. Oh, it's uncomfortable. And I'd always thought he was this way. And I'd always thought I was kind of like toe in the line and do, you know, straight. And then it was this moment where everything. And that's when I got in a recovery rooms after that. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I was literally the two days after that show. Like, you know, the opening Anthony show was it was a different thing. Like it was an opening idea that we could. It's hard to follow the opening Anthony show. I mean, it's a hard act to follow, especially when it was uprooted without any one of us wanting it to be uprooted. But man, I look back at that show and I'm really glad I was a part of that. Like there was some really funny shit on that show. Great comics coming through. Everyone being vicious to each other. Like, you know what I mean? It was a really there was a lot of fun times on that show. Oh, that was so fun. You got it felt like the luckiest place in the world. There was no better call you could get at the time in the country. I don't think then to go on to that show. And some people didn't even recognize it and that's fine. Fuck them. But to go in there and sit in there with guys, DeStefano, Sherrod, Small, Pete Davidson, Mark Norman would be in there. Just like everybody. Vic Henley, like, yeah, Greg, Florence, Jim, Florida. Yeah, yeah, just all those guys, man. That was magical. It was fun. And it was a good you would see your friends. I mean, the last time I saw Patrice, I remember he was on. He was on it was on ONA. And he was coming in one day and they're like, hey, Patrice is coming in either Thursday or Friday. And we were just having to have to show me and they're like, you have any preference? And I remember going, hey, let's do Thursday because I'm traveling Friday. I won't be here. I want to see him. And he came in and he did the show. That was the last time I saw him. Like, so it's like you saw people that you would not have been likely to see. Yeah. Coming through. Friends that were on the road. You would always get to see them because they'd come in the studio. That I miss a lot being in the center of that. Like, you know, I mean, and, you know, everyone headlines so you don't see your friends anymore, you probably go years about seeing guys that you like. Totally. But, you know, there I would see guys come come through. And yeah, man, I really I love those days a lot. It was special. Yeah, I felt it was. You got to go to you went to Ozzy's last show. Yeah, me and Jim Florentine. Florentine got me my first paid gig in comedy. He's my oldest friend in comedy. And we knew Sabbath was doing one more show. So we went to London in Birmingham, booked a couple of gigs just to pay for the trip. Yeah. And we did get to go to the show. I was I'm so happy we went. Yeah. Yeah. And we said hello to Ozzy briefly at the end. Again, he's very frail at that point. He was in a wheelchair, but we still got to say hello. And I'm really happy we got to say hi at least in time. I love the show. It's great. Yeah, it was it was an unbelievable trip. We went to the Black Sabbath House. We did a video where the you know, you see the original Black Sabbath album cover? There's a woman in front of this ominous house. And we went there and we actually went up and looked inside. It was it was a really it was like, you know, again, with your your dumb friend. It's like we should have done this 40 years ago. Yeah. Like the fact that we did this in our late fifties, we should both be fucking pushed into a ditch. Idiots. Oh, yeah. Well, there's also a shit you get into on the road. Did you get to see Jack or Kelly or? Yes, I saw both of them backstage. And I awesome. I don't know. Kelly. She's a sweetheart and she she actually, you know, she told me she was getting married and she was very sweet. And Jack is always great. And it's funny, the day Ozzy died, I was supposed to be in LA doing Jack's podcast. I was going out after Sabbath to LA for a day to do the podcast. And the day before whatever they canceled, they're like, yeah, Ozzy died. So, you know, it sucks. Nobody was expecting it this soon. Did you do you feel like like as you get older and people like like heroes start to kind of disappear? What is that kind of like? You you do see it's almost like I look at us like we're on a production line. Like, you know what I mean? Like going this way and the more of them that drop off the end, you're like, oh, my turn is coming. Like. But I also am grateful. Like it makes you grateful. Like you get to know people, you get to meet people you love. Who's the biggest hero you've met since you've been doing stand up that you actually got to talk to? That's a good question. Or even the first one. Oh, probably Chris Rock, I think. Really? Like for comedic hero for sure. Like getting to meet him was pretty. I thought was pretty special. Chris Pratt, I really liked getting to meet just because I think there's something really special about him. Like, I think he's a great entertainer, but I there's something I think really special about him. Are you shocked when they're fans of yours too? Like, have you had anybody that you love? Who like Jason Momoa, like the other day I was walking through somewhere and this big arm comes out and just pulls me in. It was just like two different areas past and there was an open door in between. Yeah. And I was just like, oh my God. It's like, and I thought I said, it's the guy from Shark Tank, right? I fucked up. And he just started laughing. He's like, and he said whatever show it was or whatever. But he was just really nice and like. And he likes your show. And he just said, hey, man, I just want to let you know that I'm a fan of yours. And yeah, yeah, things like that, especially like if it's sometimes like a male figure, I think it like, like I didn't have a lot of that when I was a kid. I didn't have like any male ever like being like, you know, I'm a fan of yours or like I like what you, you know, I just didn't have any of that energy in my life. And so like even little moments like that, like to me are big, you know, even Dustin Poirier, he and I becoming friends over the years. I love him. He's one of the few guys in the UFC I haven't met. I love Dustin. Yeah. I mean, he kind of changed my life in some ways of like just of like, you know, I said, you know, like just checking in. What's up, you know, just little things like that, you know, it makes you. I don't know. Like having like a tough figure that that's like, you know, I'm looking out for you, just something little thing like that, even though it's not even it just kind of it attaches itself to an old place in me that was missing part of a magnet. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And when those click, it like makes you feel something. There's a weird thing too, when you have figures like that in your life who are checking in on you, there's like a weird sense of like accountability in a way. Like, even though you're not just friends, but you still don't want your friend to say, hey, how you doing? You fucking like you want to at least be doing something good. And your friends can keep you somewhat accountable. Like, you know, I mean, and not in the way that, you know, people use it now. Like, you got to be accountable for it. You're fat, that shitty fucking online, gotcha nonsense. These children are doing. But I mean, like, like when you're personally just feeling like, I don't want to let this guy down and have him think I'm an asshole. Right. I'm going to get out of bed today or I'm going to go do this extra thing. Just little things like that that keep people inspired. And then I think we all do that for each other in some ways, you know, like, I'll get that feeling sometimes like, I'm just going to rattle this off to this person. Even if they don't hit me back, that's fine. That's right. Just let them know, hey, man, I'm thinking about you to let, you know, you know, I think you're great or I care about you. You're doing great today. Just little things like that, you know. And I think sometimes my brother's like, well, those are things you really wish that people would say to you. And I'm like, that's fine. But I think the feeling I get is that I want to share it with somebody else. So it's still OK, right? 100 percent. And you're right. And the older you get and the more people that die, like the more people like the die of natural cause over those suicide. I mean, we've all, you know, sure, those things happen. But when they start just dying of like hard issues or things that like are people things, you're like, oh, fuck. So you start telling people you love them more and like, hey, man, I miss you. Like, I'm not afraid to tell guys, hey, I miss you because like there's one day you're going to be like, I wish I could say that to this person. So I say it like, you know what I mean? And I when Patrice died, he's just an example. There's nothing in our relationship that went unsaid. Like there's nothing I wish. Oh, man, I wish he like we had a complete relationship. You know what I mean? Like with and you make sure that with your close friends, you have complete relationships. So there's nothing that you go like, oh, my God, for the rest of my life, I'm going to wish that they knew that I felt this way. You know what I mean? Like and that's really important to me now is like these complete relationships. Like if Bobby, not to jinx Bobby, but if Bobby or Anthony or one of my dropped it, I would they know how I feel. Right. We know it's not like it went unsaid. Do you ever think over time? Like did you think like you were missing relationships like that when you were younger? Like were you missing like some like, do you think people could be like missing a connection with like a male figure? And then that gets that gets that creates gay curiosity in somebody over time. Does that make any sense to you? Sure. I mean, what what creates curiosity in anybody I don't know? Like that could be one thing that causes it like because you're craving that connection. And all of a sudden you're like, well, there's a sexual component to this too, or I want to connect and I think it's sexual. I don't know exactly what like I said, what makes me have a pull right towards something. But there are things like that I think can influence it. Like if you don't have any male figures in your life and you get close to a male figure, you may love that person and then not know like, wow, is this love like I want to lay down with this person? Or is this a healthy normal? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love you, man. Like why do you have gay curiosity? I think they will know the well, well, there was time in my life where I like didn't like I was just definitely like a late bloomer with a lot of like like intimacy of any type. Sure. You know, like I were like, I was just talking about this the other day with a friend. But it was like, even now if a woman like looks at me, it's like or says something nice. I got to change the fucking subject. I just it's hard for me to be in that moment. Yeah, it's hard for me to be right here. And but yeah, growing up, I just felt like I didn't get a lot of like, I didn't have like a strong probably or five of the connection. And so like when I started to get relationships like that with friends later on, I think it was a part of me for a little bit. It was like, oh, is this like a gate? Like because I was so desperate for those relationships. So part of me had a wager in my head, like, is this a gay thing? Or is this just a friend thing? And then I had to learn how much can you just be a friend to somebody without kind of over not seeming into a like a homosexual like space or sexual space, but just like into where it's awkward for them because you're trying to be too much of a friend because you just have never had that sort of friendship. Yeah, I mean, but there is it's a feeling that there's a definitive like a moat. Like if I love one of my friends, I'm like like Bobby or any of these guys, a boss, rotten boss, who I love. Colin, I love these guys. I mean, I really love them and I can hug them and tell them I love you. But there's there's a moat between that and wanting to peck them on the neck. For sure. There is a definitive line. And that's what people a lot of times don't like like any guys who are freaked out by my lifestyle like that's fucking grow. Like most guys have to understand like the idea of me having sex with you is as disgusting to me as it is to you. Like it makes me nauseous to think about it. Like any if any of my friends think I want to jerk off with them, they're very delusional. I don't none of them. I don't have to build like Rogan. None of them would I jerk off with. Yeah, glazing that ham, brother. None of them. So it's like there is a there is a line between love and really connecting with a friend and feeling intimate with a buddy, which I'm glad as an adult male, I'm allowing myself to do like I'm not afraid of that and and feeling sexual. They're completely different things for me. But you know that so that yeah, there can be a different you can love somebody without having that stuff. And I think you just hear so much like, you know, when you're young, it's like there's there was always so many like you can't say this or I'm a dude or something. A lot of that's kind of changed over the years, especially me. I'm a pretty emotional dude. And so I like thinking about emotions and I like, you know, I like kind of examine in that stuff. But yeah, I think there was probably there was probably some times where I was like, is this am I like and also I was having so much trouble like communicating with women. So it also to say, well, maybe I'm gay man, you know, maybe I'm gay man. And but then I never felt an attraction to men. And so it was like, but I think some of that's pretty normal. I'm amazed that a lot of my friends as I get older that date trans prefer to date trans women. Yeah, you'll you'll find a lot of people that it's it's it's it's a lot more than I ever expected. Yeah. And it's part of people think like what it's this new thing. But a lot of it is you people are just not hiding anymore, right? Or they're just not as afraid of it or they're more aware of it because there's more people who are trans down. There's more like, you know, with with with surgeries and estrogen and like, oh, wow, that person looks great. Like there's so many things people do. It's just it's a part of the culture and it's not going to go away. Like I know some people I understand nobody wants an ideology beaten over their head. I get nobody wants to be told how to feel. I don't scold people if they don't agree with me. I don't care. Yeah, plenty of people I know who I respect and like would find my lifestyle awful. It's always funny because I do a lot of Gutfeld episodes. And when I go on to come there one time, he's a nice guy. He's a great guy. He really is a genuine and he's really funny and he's fair. And Jamie Lissos on there sometimes, huh? Jamie is great on that show. Love Jamie. Tyrus is really great at what he's just a very naturally funny good talker. Tyrus is a big guy and he's mixed, right? He's mixed. He's mixed. He lives in the town that I'm from in Louisiana. Oh, he is from Louisiana. That's right. He goes home all the time. I cool. I saw him at the gym one time. He's inspired me in a way because he lost so much weight recently, like it made me get back to the gym. I'm like, and I know for him, it's been a struggle. And I'm like, he's doing it. He's putting up videos of himself boxy. I'm like, just get in the fucking gym. Do you look like all of the Lion King in one. He does. He's in a respectable way, very intimidating. And Kat, I don't want to leave Kat Timfass. She's fucking hilarious. It's a great show. So anyway, I do that. And I go on the road and a lot of those fans don't know me except from that show. So it's so I nothing I like more than watching the joy just drain from their face when they realize who they paid to see. But I, you know, more people, I guess now are more comfortable being themselves because you also it's like, you know, I mean, I was when I was a kid, I was I'm old and you send the 70s. I got called a faggot all the time. I got beaten up and chased by older kids for doing little sexual things with boys. The word gets out. He's a faggot. Like it was nasty. So wow. It's nice that people aren't being treated that way anymore. I didn't know that you had to had that kind of stuff happen. And while I think kids got called that, like I certainly got called shit just for being like being smart in a neighborhood where it was uncomfortable to know shit. Yeah. You know, like I wish it was for that reason. But no, that's not why they called me that. I was nose deep on a belly button. I earned it. Hey, some people call it penis. Some people call it long pussy, you know, the new term for a long pussy. Like, let's just say she's got a long pussy, you know. But dude, yeah, people are such perverts now who even. But then also it is crazy because there has been this energy that we've all been following this like a stute level of our government in this. But then now you realize, oh, these half these guys are damn pedophiles running around, skieten on fucking, you know, kids off the coast of fucking wherever it's like, what's going on? That's why I don't believe any of it. Like they're talking about what the marriage and the sanctity of marriage. And then you find out that person's divorced. It's like, man, I don't want to hear you weigh in. If you're divorced, shut the fuck up about who can get married because you didn't do it right. Like, you know what I mean? Like I don't believe any of it. It's just like I don't believe progressives when they're talking about, you know, being so pious and the purity checks they put everyone through. It's like you're full of shit too. All your friends are white. Shut up. Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, I don't know. I hate that shit when people are saying that have never lived in the south of how things should be in the south. Fuck you. Calm down, live in our neighborhoods for a little bit. See what the shit is like, you know. It's the same sometimes with the border stuff. I don't know what it's like to live on the border in Brownsville, Texas. I don't know what people's lives are like right there. I don't know the fears people have when they put their kids to sleep at night. I don't know the fears people have who are trying to come over, who are trying to get their kids a place where they can go to sleep at night. Like, I don't know what that's like. So like I have thoughts about it sometimes, but to really be like so definitive and shit, it's crazy to me. Well, yeah. And because you you dealing with the immigration with with Nikki, which we again, we did it legally and it's a long. The immigration system should be sped up. Like it should be a 24 hour system that's always got people working because it's like your life is ticking away. And you're waiting and they're sending paperwork through the US mail. And it's like, Jesus Christ, like these are like I just a trap. And the mail is basically like handing a letter to a black guy and hoping he takes it where it's supposed to go. Yeah, just here you go. Please bring that to the to the government. This is the request revidence. Here it is when there's so much more. It's a government. Anything with the government is not going to be efficient. So immigration, they really should streamline it more and make it and hire more people like that because I understand why people hop the fence. But I don't agree with it because we did it legally. Like, but I'm lucky I could afford a lawyer. Like a lot of people can't afford attorneys. So I kind of go back and forth with it. What's nuanced, you know, and people get up so so upset about the ice thing. But here's what I think people don't understand. We're headed to a surveillance state, I believe, in America. Like they're doing this like the Palantir as this new deal. They're the same ones that are like owning all these drones and operating a lot of these drones in Gaza and stuff. They're company, right, Palantir? Yeah, allegedly, that are sniping children. I mean, we had a doctor and he said bullets would come straight down and like from above like a succinct shot. So that's the same company. Like you won't be able to be in like hypothetically or on paper illegal person in America in two years, I don't think because the the radar will go off like the facial recognition will go. You can't do it. So they're getting all the paperwork organized now. They're just taking inventory right now and I know it's painful. With the fate you're at the facial recognitions. Like I don't mind it at the airport. Like I know some people won't let them take the picture, but I show up at the airport sometimes and I did just take a picture of my fucking my my stupid face and I just walk through. I love it. And anything that makes my life easier. And I know that somebody civil libertarians would come tell me to go fuck myself. You're right. Fine. I don't care. I mean, I'm 57. I just like fucking going on a plane fast. Oh, I wish things were different a lot of times, but also here we are. Right. It's like I can wish things were different. I can romanticize that we're still before 9 11. But that's not where we are right now. Right in this fucking place. But I believe that's why all the stuff with I. So people sometimes are still like they shouldn't be doing. I know I understand people have different feelings, but there's no other way to get to where we're headed by them getting everybody on the books. And I would like to get people like criminals. Once you commit a crime, get out. Like or hang on. I'm fine with hangings. I'm fine with executions. For some people, yeah, not everybody. No, no, no, but those who really misbehave. Yeah. Although it's funny, I've turned against the death penalty. Like you, but not they always say it's cruel and unusual punishment. There's there's a there's a line in injustice role where he's talking about something he goes in theory. It's great, but in practice, it sucks. I think in theory, the penalty is allowable. Like I don't think it's cruel and unusual. I think people who hurt children and kill children. I'm all for their fucking heads being mushed between two giant pieces of metal. I just don't trust the system enough. And I don't trust prosecutors enough to back off. Like there's so many times that they care more about the record of the office than they do the actual truth. So that's the only reason that's turned against it. It's nothing to do with it being, I think it's a perfectly allowable thing, but our system isn't perfect. That's a good point. 100% it's like when a coach that runs up the score at the end of the game, like how do you know that that prosecutor's office isn't just trying to run up the score because maybe they're trying to make their office look better with so many deals and they're going to sell to a bigger company. You just never know. That's a great point. I don't want to pay lawsuits. So there's, I just don't trust the integrity of the people who will look bad if it's overturned. Yeah. And you look back, there's enough prosecutorial misconduct. We're like, not technicality, shit. Not where a guy had bloody underpants in his fucking house, but the search warrant had the wrong date on it. Like I'm not talking about technical shit, but there are people who legitimately didn't commit the crime and then you see like evidence that wasn't given to their attorneys. Yeah, happens a lot. I just can't get around that. I believe it's a lot of poor people too. Much more than rich people. That's a good point too. So if everyone got the same level of legal representation. It's not what happens though. Yeah, I don't think it's racial. I think it's money. You have enough money for great lawyers. You have enough money for great lawyers. But if you don't, you get some guy that's overworked who's doing it because he has to do it pro bono. You're not gonna get the level of experts and all these people that can refute evidence. So whatever, that's how I feel about it. But I do think that emotionally I agree with it. Like, I get why people cut drugs. What's also, it starts to, you start to think, is there bad DNA in the universe? Sure, you're looking at it. Yeah. This is fucking. This is fucking. Domers Petrie did it. He has five foot six of fucking bad DNA. Did you guys ever get to interview OJ Simpkins? Did you guys ever interview a murderer? Did we ever? I don't know if you ever, I've interviewed Frank Lucas who was in this. Martha Moxley, that wasn't that guy. No, it was American gangster that Denzel played him. But there's a moment where he went up and shot somebody. So he might qualify. I'm dying to interview Sammy the Bull. I'm dying to talk to him. Cause this podcast is fascinating. You know who one of the best guys we ever talked to was? It was this giant cop from Milwaukee. His name was something Kennedy. He was six foot seven. And he was the cop who debriefed Jeffrey Dahmer. When they arrested Dahmer and they brought Dahmer to the station house, he's the cop, the detective that Dahmer first talked to. And he said at first he didn't believe him. Cause he was like, yeah, I killed all these people. And then he said he got a call from the scene and they're like, yeah, with the refrigerator we found heads. And then he had to go back over it. Yeah. Patrick Kennedy. Patrick Kennedy, yeah. He died unfortunately. He looks young. He was a giant six foot seven beast of a man. Very nice guy. But he, and he admitted that when Dahmer died he got emotional because he had gotten to know him. And he goes, he kind of got a little bit, he cried. He said when Jeffrey Dahmer was killed because he was a bad guy, but he's still, you know, whatever, when you know someone, you know him. But a murderer, that's a good, I don't know. But never OJ, huh? Never talked to OJ. I corresponded with him once. I sent him a DM trying to get him on the radio show. And he did respond to me, but we never got him on. This was after he got out of jail for, in the Vegas thing. My buddy has a story where they were in New York one night and they were doing some cocaine and this was after the murders. And somebody was like, oh, I don't have a key on me. And OJ pulled a knife out of his jacket and they did it off of the knife. He jimmied the lock? No, they just, oh, the coke. They were doing the cocaine and they pulled the knife out and they did the, and they were all looking at him like it was fucking crazy that he would do that. Why would you carry that? And the only thing crazier than that is me acting like someone's aunt. What, they couldn't get in the house? What an asshole. How did I miss the point of that? I apologize. I'm stupid. I'm a stupid man. You're talking about doing coke and I'm like, what, did they jimmied the lock? Oh, fucking blithering old idiots. I'm an old man. Yeah, that's a very bizarre. Maybe OJ had to at that point though, because people had such strong feelings about that. Maybe he was afraid somebody was gonna jump out and take a shot at him or attack him. I never met him. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like we had a chance to meet him when he was doing podcasts and he was getting paid for them for a while. Yeah. And we didn't go into that. I bet Kevorkian once, but Ron Bennington, I think, interviewed him and he was there. So I took a picture with Dr. Kevorkian, but I would love to have gotten to talk to him. I never got to talk to him, unfortunately. Some of them, he's like, fuck. Did you guys have Trump on your show sometimes? He called in a couple of times. Matt and I, for UFC Unfiltered interviewed Trump. It was before he got the nomination for, we knew he was gonna get it, but it was like Biden was president. And they reached out to us, they're like, do you wanna interview President Trump? We're like, yeah. So we went to Vegas and we did it in the Trump hotel. And he was really great. Like it was a sports interview. Because Dana's like, I don't want this to be politics. This is not a political show. We talked to him for about 40 minutes. About boxing and stuff. Boxing, MMA. Because Trump was a great friend to the UFC. He was a tremendous asset to the UFC long before they had what they have now. Yeah, Dana speaks about that a lot. His brain, dude, his brain, whether people love him politically or not, doesn't matter. I sat in the room with him. His fucking brain was really sharp. People thought we had cue cards set up. Cause his answers were so on the money and he remembered every fighter and he remembered every fight. And people like these guys had cue cards set up. And he was very sharp. So, and he was nice to my wife when I introduced him. So I had a great time talking to him. Yeah. You can't not. Anybody who wins the presidency has some form of charisma. Oh yeah. I'm always people like you had that. Dude, what are you talking about? Do you know the street I grew up on? If I did an interview, a president and I had a chance. If I didn't sit with people, whether I agree with them or don't agree with them, like how the fuck am I supposed to know anything about them or get any feeling as a human as to what they may or may not be like or how they operate. It's like I would sit down with the devil probably and at least see if I could get a feel for some of his future plans. Absolutely. And then just I would keep looking at his little cloven feet. Where do you get your shoes from, Dev? But yeah, who wouldn't want to sit with the president? Like again, and he was nice. Close my mind. I would show the same respect to Biden or Kamala. And any of them I talked about, I would be respectful to and have a nice conversation with. There's this weird line where people are like, how could you talk to Trump? Shut up. Yeah. Shut the fuck up. You don't have the chance to talk to any of these people and I don't mean that in a negative way, but fuck you. Yeah, I absolutely agree with whoever wants to interview somebody. Why should just the quote unquote press have access to people? If they're willing to come on and talk, why wouldn't you talk to me? But then I do some of those guys interviewed Netanyahu and I did not like that though. Oh, you didn't. So you had that kind of feeling. Yep, I'm just thinking that out loud. So I guess there's a part of me that doesn't really feel that way. But if you didn't, there's a difference between not liking something and vocally. I wouldn't interview him. And vocally, you wouldn't. You're not too. Maybe you could interview him and ask him tough questions. I think I would probably try to ask him stuff that really means something to me. Sure. And that's fair. Like they know that if you're Netanyahu or you're Trump or you're Biden, you know that when you go into an interview, part of it might be this guy asking you questions from a belief system that is not yours. So you might hear things you don't like. But yeah, that'd be the best thing to do is to interview him and ask him shit that he might not want to answer, but that you want to know the answer to. Do you think that's better than not interviewing somebody? It's personal preference. I mean, I don't think you're wrong to not want to talk to somebody. I think if you go, nah, I'd rather not. I think that's perfectly fair. But I think that part of the thing too is when you're sitting in the room with somebody, no matter who they are, even if you hate them, there is sometimes something about them that you connect to and like and it becomes harder to hate them. Again, they think that to be a politician. I've met people like Lauren Bobart. I don't know her. I don't agree with her politics. And I met her once and she was very nice. Was kid rocks girl, not his girlfriend, is it? I don't know. I met her, she was at a Kill Tony event. But she was so nice and I enjoyed chatting with her. And it's like, even if I don't agree with her, I don't have the same feelings about her that are bad. Like, you know what I mean? Cause I've met her and she was nice. Oh, for sure. It's harder for me to look at her like just this person who's got no real feelings and no real connection to anything. Oh yeah. She got the bumpers on her too. She is quite attractive. Yeah, she looks great. I got zero vibes off her, but I mean, she just, you know, as I shouldn't have. Yeah, it doesn't matter. But she was nice. So when you meet somebody, sometimes you think, you know what they're going to be like and they want to impressing you and you're like, it's harder for me to dislike them. But all that, nothing, yeah, that's such a controversial issue. I'm not saying you would like the guy, but you know what I mean? Sitting across from him, you may feel differently or you may hate him more. Right. Yeah, there is something about sitting across from somebody or at least sitting across from them. There is some connection of like spatial energy of something like that of like, because I think it is human to want to find some commonality with people. Yeah, you want to find something that you kind of, like it's funny, we were interviewing one time, Ben Kingsley. And I remember talking to him. Who is he? He was in like, he was in the, he's just, he's an actor. He was in, I think, did he play Gandhi? He might have played Gandhi. He's been in everything. I mean, he's Kingsley. Yeah, he's been. Did he play Gandhi? I could be, he's a very famous actor. He had a great, great, yeah, he was Gandhi. Wow. And he's been around for you. I was seeing a Peter Billings, I told him thinking of. Who's Peter Billings? I know that name too. He is the guy who kissed that pipe and he got tongue stuck on it. Oh, in the Christmas story. Yes, yes. But we were just talking to Ben Kingsley. Okay, so Ben Kingsley. No, no, no. I just remember talking to him and he was answering me. And I remember thinking in any other circumstance, this guy wouldn't fucking spit on me. Like he would never talk to me at a party or at a premiere. But in this weird setting, I'm like, so what about, and he's like, well, and he's like giving a real answer. And it's such an odd thing interviewing somebody like, people that normally would never acknowledge you, now have to listen to you and actually think about how to answer your question. It's a weird psychology. And I remember that just struck me when I was talking to him. Because our worlds are so different. Like he would never talk to me in real life. Got it. And I've never talked to him again. Right. I see what you're saying. I can't think of someone I wouldn't interview, but maybe if it was brought up in front of me, I might say no. Yeah. I can't think of anyone. I take up, I would just, I start to realize that some people will just use you. And you don't realize it. Like I used to think like everybody just wants to come and they want to have a conversation and stuff and you can learn stuff about each other. But then some people just want to use, like they'll use you to get their message out there. And I think I didn't realize sometimes that that's how things work. Yes. So I think I've noticed that more over time. So maybe that would keep me out of certain conversations. You know? It depends on... And maybe like with YAHU. You're afraid that he would just use you to message? I feel like his group is so calculated that they would be able to do it in a way that I wouldn't even maybe see it. I don't know. I think that all, anyone in public life, especially in like official politicians, congressmen, they all do this thing where they have talking points and they're very, their masters at veering back to a talking point. And when they're bad at it, we hate them. Sometimes they're good at it and you don't realize they're doing it. But most times we're savvy enough to go, what are you fucking, they're like, look, you know, you'll be like, what about that thing where they did find the dead prostitute in your closet? No, I know, but the thing with the economy is and they're right back to talking about their... And you're like, you didn't answer the fucking question. That's why so many of them are so hateable. Cause I think we've gotten a little bit better at seeing it now. For sure. They're back on their talking points. Yeah. And that's why I love the interview that we did with Trump because it was just, it really was just a conversation about sports. And I would love to, I wish I had told him how much I loved that he talked to Kim Jong-un. I didn't get to say that to him. I wish I had, I just forgot afterwards, but we were saying our goodbyes and he was taking pictures of everybody. And I wish I had told him, like, I love that he went to North Korea and tried. Like I love that he made an effort with that little short weird guy. That'd be cool, huh? You think Eun is cool or what? If you're a Chicago Bull, yeah. Like if you played for the Bulls, he's awesome. Right. You know, if your uncle is in the military and made a questionable decision, you're executed. I imagine there's a downside to it. Depends on who you are. Yeah, dude, he looks fucking cool, dude. He looks interesting to be like, here's what I would think with him. I would be afraid that I'd be in North Korea and there's a language barrier and he would wanna toast with alcohol. And I would try to tell him like I'm an alcoholic, so I'd have to refuse the drink and that would start a whole, you insulted the leader thing. Yeah, you wouldn't know. I think sometimes whenever you insulted them, I think that would be kind of, yeah, something like that could be really miskewed or something. You know, fascinates me the Sultan of Brunei. Really? Who owns like the Beverly Hilton. Like that's a guy who lives, that'd be a fun guy to know. Ooh, I might go to Dubai Abu Dhabi for UFC and all. I think I'd go to the UFC in October. Who's fighting? Or November. I don't know what the card is yet. I see you at all the events. Like even if I'm home watching, I'm on the road. They always pant you, you're always there early. I love it in there. I love that you're always there early, yeah. Well, I just get to see it like, you know, Chris Weidman was fighting on his retirement fight, I think was fighting on the, I don't know if it was the main, it might have even been the first fight of the main card or something, but like, I mean, there's just so many great fights. I just can't believe that people aren't there. These are like guys that are going in there and women that are giving it that, I mean, it's like, where are you? I wish I scheduled better because they just announced, I think Jack Dalam, Adelina and Makachev at the, in the garden in November. And I immediately look at my schedule. I'm in Oregon. And I'm like, nothing against Oregon. No, but it just hurts. Yeah, I probably didn't mean to say it right. Yeah. Oregon or the fucking thumb state is I'm coming. What, oh, you know what? One of my favorite conversations was that ever had, honestly, it was with Louie. It was whenever we chose it because we didn't know each other at all. And we like, we just laughed and got to know each other. And then after that, we became closer, but that was one of my favorite podcasts ever, probably. He loves you. And it's funny, your name came up while we were traveling and he's like, he's a really great guy. He just raved about you. I didn't know that he were gonna be talking to him or I was gonna be even, you were gonna be seeing him this week. It was a nice surprise. Yeah, he's a special guy. He is, and he's a... It'd be hard to be him, I feel like, because he has so many thoughts and he's so able to look around the corner of thoughts and possibilities. I mean, really to like, fuck, it almost feels like it'd be scary to be him. He has such a... Does it make any sense? No, 100% because his brain operates so well. It's such an interesting and unique brain. He helped me fix a joke that I wound up doing in the special. He saw me doing it at the seller. He was like, you might wanna say it like this. And I didn't, it fixed it. It was better. So when you have a guy like that, he just sees something and he lasers in on it. And the material is so good. His new hour is so good. And he's changing the order every night, trying this, trying that. You know, yeah, he's brilliant, man. That word is overused on people, but he truly is brilliant. Getting your sweat on might seem like hard work, but with symmetry, sauna, it's a work of art. Premium custom saunas for your home or business, plus a series of sleek pre-built saunas. I just got myself a symmetry sauna and I'm sweating out bad decisions. Like the time I tried to just fill my own chip tooth in. Why sauna? Well, it relieves sore joints and muscles, improves skin, boosts heart health and melts stress like hot butter. And I'm finally sleeping like a baby, which is rare since I'm usually up at 3 a.m. Wondering if penguins have knees. Pro athletes, fitness buffs, big folks, getting small, small folks getting big, everybody's hot boxing. And symmetry saunas can help. Designed in the USA, made with aspen wood from ancient Estonian forests. Ooh, yep, fancy trees. Symmetry sauna, the perfect balance of form and function. Learn more about how to get your own premium home sauna from symmetry sauna at symmetry sauna.com slash T-H-E-O. I think, oh, did you grow, you grew up in New Jersey, right? I did central Jersey. Did you get to ever meet James J. Braddock or not? Who's James J. Braddock? No. The Cinderella man? Never met him. Where is he from in Jersey? We may have missed it too. Bergen? No, but that's not that far from me. Joey Diaz used to shovel his driveway. Is he dead or alive? Joey's alive, but this guy's dead. No, I know Joey, yeah. James J. Braddock is dead. Joey's alive. I mean, look, you got to look at him. But if I didn't know Joey Diaz was, that would be sucked if he was dead. I was like, oh, sorry, I just talked to him. Yeah, Braddock, dude, that Cinderella man's the best. You seen that? I have, have I seen that? I don't think I have. Wow. I don't think I have. No, and I was six when he died. I was born in 68. Oh, yeah, I didn't realize he died that early. Oh, you and Nicky got to watch, put on some condoms and watch this thing. Condoms, forget it. Not before, during or after our marriage. Well, every is one of those bull of those things. When did he win it? But oh, this is my favorite movie. I just watched Silver Linings playbook again. That movie's so good. That was very good. Yeah. DeNiro and Bradley Cooper. I was watching Irish, the Irish Mickey Ward movie, The Fighter. I don't know if I saw that. Oh, it's so good. I think we've interviewed Mickey Ward though, but I don't remember if I could see that. Yeah, he was, he's still alive. He's out. I don't know what he was promoting. But UFC guys, by the way, are the nicest of all the athletes to interview. So funny. I've interviewed boxers tend to be a little standoffish, a little too cool for the room. You keep the sunglasses on, but UFC fighters are humility to them. And Rogan said it's because like they get tapped a lot in the gym when you're training. You're being submitted and you're submitting. So there's a humility there that you keep because there's always somebody kind of getting the better of you. And maybe that's what it is. I don't know, but I like those guys the best. I think that makes sense. Oh yes, getting to be around some of those guys. Dude, I accidentally called, I called one of the fighters, Steve Mio Chicken, it was not him. Oh no. Is that a woman? Yup. I asked two UFC employees, I was like, is that Steve? Like, yes, that's him. And I went over to say, and it wasn't, it was Jon, Brickovic, Bront, Jon. Jon Blahovic? Jon Blahovic. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just fucking scary for a minute. Would you say, hey, Steve? Yeah, I was like, hey, how's the retirement going? And I think he didn't want to, if a guy's not retired, he probably wouldn't want to hear that. And I kind of like tickled him a little because I know Steve a little. And it was just fucking tough. But you know, you win some, you lose some. He did give me a nice look later on that made me feel a little bit better, but just he got to be careful. Like, yeah, it's funny, like, it's almost like whenever you get to, like you're like around a pit bull for a little while at a party, like, oh, now we're buddies. You just want to be a little careful sometimes around those guys. You want to be a little bit careful because you never know what past trauma you remind them of in a minute when you do something. I had, I was in LA one time many years ago and I walked up and it was Patrick Swayze was coming out of a restaurant. So I walked up. Was he handsome? Very. And I go, dude, I love you. Can we take a picture? I'm like, I'm such a fan, Patrick. And he goes, I'm not Patrick. And it was David Keith. And he was with a date. That was embarrassing. That was fucking embarrassing. I thought it was Swayze. It wasn't. Oh, that is heavy. I could see that a little bit. That was years ago. It looks like Robert Wool, actually. Oh, did I fuck up? I just got nervous. It was Keith David, you mean? Oh, David Keith is one black, one's white. Oh, David Keith. Sorry, did I say Keith David? Keith David. Well, click on Keith David. Keith David's black. Yeah, he was in platoon. I yeah. Mr. Swayze. He was like, yeah, no, no. David Keith is white. He he was an officer and gentlemen, David Keith is a great actor. Oh, I just panicked. Oh, for sure. I was just nervous. Keith David, I met in an airport one time in LAX, the coolest guy in history. He's wearing like a completely white suit and white coat with a fucking white hat. That guy's just awesome. Yeah. He was also in that. That Michael Douglas was the movie. Platoon. No. Spartacus. It was a drug movie where the girl requiem for a dream, I think he was in. That movie was interesting. Yeah. I think Jared Leto was in that. And he was really Keith David is tremendous, but in platoon, you know, yeah, that was a different time. Yeah. That was embarrassing. I relate to that. It's humiliating. Yeah, I'm trying to think. I know there's been something like that that I've had, but I think sometimes that is camera. I think sometimes my brain just shuts down. Do you have a panic around people like that? Like where like my brain is not working and I'm just like lost. And I'm like, I know I should be more comfortable, but they're famous or whatever it is. Oh, yeah. I met John Johnny Depp came to the comedy store one night and it's still like a moment of lore because it was like Doug Stanhope brought him. Yeah. And they were in the green room in the main room and everybody was in there. And I was like, I got there and they're like, don't tell anybody, Johnny Depp's here. And I knew when they're telling me, I was like, they've told everybody if you're telling me. And so I go back in there and then all you know, like you don't even know who else in there. It was like 50 people in this little room and Johnny. And then like I got to somehow got to say, I said, hello, Mr. Johnny Depp. And then I had nothing else to say and it was very uncomfortable. And I realized I was just there for me kind of and I just got out of there. Yeah. It's embarrassing because you want to say something, but sometimes a person's famous and I like their work, but I don't have anything to say to them. Like, I admire your work. And that's kind of, you know, where do you go from there? If you have nothing legitimate to say. And I've, yeah, I've done that. I've humiliated myself. But they got to be used to it too. They're like, and some of them will be helpful to you. They'll kind of ask you something to fucking put you back on your feet, you know, or someone will shake you and be like, you're not a son or whatever, you know, like. No one's ever shaken me and said that. I've tried to say that in the mirror and I just went up laughing. I was. Jim has a crash. Just dummy. I mean, just one of those battling dummies, but he just uses give it uplifting positive semi-homosexual. Like you're straight, Jim. Yeah, no, you're not. Get back in there. You're straight. You can do it. You it's not scary. It doesn't have teeth. Yeah, no, I. Oh, my here's my Johnny Depp story. I was at I got invited to it was Aussie's actual 70th birthday party. I got to go to that. Wow. In the U.S. In that was at his house in Beverly Hills. And it was amazing. It was a lot of great people there. And Johnny Depp was walking around and I was talking to him. And he was very nice. And I talked to him three or four different times. We took a picture and then I realized it was a Johnny Depp impersonator, stupid, no showbiz Jim Norton. Like my aunt again, I fell for it. I it was a Johnny Depp 20 years younger than Johnny Depp, by the way. And I fucking fell for a hook line and sinker all night. You're over there. I do. I'm Johnny Depp. I'm a picture. I've gotten dice got me on the road years ago. We were on the road in like late late 90s. He was as Charlie Daniels. So I took a picture with this guy. It was just some fucking hayseed in a cowboy hat. Oh, they got me so good. They got me one time we were in the airport. It was an open Anthony trip. We were going somewhere and one of the Jonas Brothers was talking to his dad. They were traveling. One of the and I'm not a fan of the Jonas Brothers. And I don't know their names, but I'm like, I got it. I'll take a picture with him. So I walk over and I just start talking to this 15 year old kid and his dad. And I was trying to take a picture if you don't mind. And I look and they're all laughing. And I realized it's just some fucking kid. His dad, I creepily approach some 15 year old. They're sitting in the airport eating lunch and some fucking old blinking Petrash looking guy wants a photo with this boy. Ice coffee. Oh, my. Cool, cool, cool, coffee and a fouls. Ted, is this nothing better than her head movements? Oh, my God. She looks like the cop in dog day afternoon. He was off drinks, drinks. But yeah, that was I've gotten I've gotten got a few times like that. I think it's a fucking celebrity. It's humiliating. But but I deserve it. Yeah. And we all need stuff like that, man. It's the stuff like that, that that just keeps you alive. I feel like. Yeah. And when you get one of your friends. Oh, and like I do, I do like the ability to like just go like, you're an idiot. It's funny. Yeah. To laugh at yourself. And what better thing to hit on a kid and also realize you're not a pedophile? Well, I wasn't. I didn't. I didn't think he was cute. I just wanted a picture. I wasn't hitting on him. I didn't I didn't say to him, son, if you need to go to the restroom, may I escort? No, I was just trying to take a picture while they had lunch. Some fucking kiosk at the airport. And the father, they looked at me like, what? And I just happened to see Anthony and the rest of the guys fucking laughing. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, they got me. I'm like, sorry, I just don't want to have a camera out. Fucking jerk off. Oh my god, dude. Yeah. Oh, I don't know why that's one of those. For some reason, just so perfect. That was one thing I was nice about before, like social media, everything like everything was possible. Nobody in a moment's notice you back. That's not them or this isn't possible. You could lie to people, but you couldn't lie to me. You could make stuff up. There was so much room for creativity and possibility and everything because everybody didn't have all of the like hypothetical answers at the at the at their own information. Yeah. But looking at, yeah, like I could have just Googled them and then seeing. And I imagine I could have at that point, either. I was just so thought it'd be so much fun to get a picture with one of the Jonas brothers. Yeah. I get pictures of people. I stopped doing that now as I'm older, but for a long time, I did. It was fun. And we had so many celebrities coming through your world, too. At one point, there were a lot. Yeah. I mean, that show was crazy to be in that lobby in that big building in New York, like especially for young comics, you go there and there's like, it looks like outer space when you get there downstairs the first time. If you haven't been in there and it's those glass, like something turns green and it opens it up, but first you have to go talk to somebody who's usually a diversity hire. I'm going to say it in a suit over there downstairs. And they would call up to somebody magically somewhere. You would get the thumbs up. They give you a little barcode and now you're like, the door is open. And then and it just the elevator like almost is like come in here. And then you and then you go so high to your ears pop and you get out and like fucking a van der Holyfield is in the lobby or like doja cat or fucking Katy Perry, everybody's waiting to go into some little enclave to get their voice out to the world. It was crazy. It was crazy. And Stern was right down the hall, too. So he would always have huge guests. Oh, yeah. I nailed McCartney coming out of his studio one time. I got a picture with McCartney. That was a big one. Pele I got like I've got if they weren't there for my show. I still would if they're in the lobby. I'm like, it's fair game. Yeah, I'm usually they would take it because you're in that it's kind of a closed environment. But yeah, that would that was one that was one. That's great. That's a good shot with us, too. I've always hated how my dumb neck looks. But yeah, because I was doing it for a selfie. And then McCartney goes, let my guy do it. So I handed it to his security guy. He was actually very nice. And yeah, that's a great, great shot. That's a pretty good picture, man. It's very risky handing it to someone else, too, because you have no control over what they're going to do. No control. But because Paul suggested it, I knew the guy would do like do as he was at. Like it wasn't like I just handed it to some guy and I'm like, quickly, you know, he asked the guy and he probably knew like, let me just get this fucking weird eggheaded kid out of here and go about my day. Yeah, this is a special needs adult. It really, yeah, it is. I don't look particularly mentally healthy there or handsome. Did you feel like you were handsome when you were a kid or not? Never, really. No, I look back now. I was like, I was a cute little boy. I look back. I was like, yeah, when I was I was I get why a lot of the older kids saw my face and deserved. That we should hump that. I got it. I got it. Was there a lot of predators in your neighborhood and shit? No, we were all in the same age group. There was maybe a couple, but no, I my therapist tells me I was molested. But I was like, yeah, I was kind of volunteering for it. I was there for it. You know what I mean? Like I was, yeah, I don't think so. I was hanging out on the mistletoe type of. Yeah, I was I was I was in on it, you know. Oh, that's me at 17. That's you. That's you. That's me at 17. Oh, my God. Yeah, young young, young urban gym with a lot of attitude. Wow, I did not see this. You look like somebody that would work for Neil Brennan. You know what I'm saying? You look like a black, like definitely like a young wig, a type of child. Yeah, that hat really should have been removed from my head. White with the clockwork orange shirt. I didn't know what I wanted to be. It's a yo, yeah, you're doing a lot of things here. That's why when I see people with these identity crisis, like with with the especially when they're like political about it, whatever, I understand the identity crisis. We all have them in time. And eventually you grow into who you are. Oh, yeah, dude, I was doing the black thing for as a while for a kid. I did the like the Nirvana thing. Sure. Stone temple pilots, you know, I did all the things. Maryland Manson. I went down a lot of different roads, the religious, you know, like different things. Just like you're like, yeah, you're trying shit on. You're trying stuff on like and that was I was into like the little white kid who thinks he's black. I was doing that long before it was fashionable. Like in the 80s, like, you know, when when Adidas still had fat laces and that was considered, but then you grow out of it. And then you just kind of somebody said one time, like, instead of looking for who you are, just get rid of all the shit that you're not and whoever you are just shows up and that kind of made sense. Like just stop looking for it and just live and you'll find. But I see so many people in life that are looking for an identity. That's what so much of the stuff is public. You know what I mean? People that are so adamant, always talk, always talking about the same thing, always talking about the same thing. You're like, you want an identity? You just you're looking to you. You want a little prefab identity, like a little. And do you think there's a way that we can get to know? Like so one of the things you just said is like, get rid of the things that you're not. Right? Sure. Like, yeah, how do we find our identity more? Because I wonder if we used to be better at that. I feel like if we used to have more of communication with like our parents, you know, like back in the comments, like caveman time, something. Was there something more that your identity was kind of shaped with just being able to survive? Right. And now we have this all this other like this all this other fucking ornamentation that helps us get a reflection of ourselves. I just wonder if it was different or if how do how do we find our identity better? I wonder. Well, there's also no do is less pressure then, because now immediately everybody weighs in. So there's this pressure to weigh in so we don't drown. Like we want to just be above the above sea level. We just want to survive and be noticed and be alive. So there's no time for it. It's almost like that's why people have these again. These almost like big like when you see a house being driven down the street on the back of a flatbed like that prefab prebuilt house. That's how people are with politics and with social issues. That there's no time to go looking for nuance. And it's like, OK, that's my that's my that's that's why I am right. And that's that's what I'm associated with. Everybody's so afraid of being run over by all of it. So I think just don't don't listen to what everybody else is saying. I don't give a shit what other people think about stuff. Then I don't begrudge them, but I don't care. Like I have plenty of friends whose politics I totally disagree with. I don't give a fuck. Did you always have a did you have a tough time when you were young? Like finding your like deciding I'm going to make my own choice for myself. Can you bring me one more water, Trevon? We'll finish up in a couple minutes. That's fine. Um, I have to. I believe we're going this long. How long the time? Probably two hours. What? You want to pee really fast? Can I? Yeah, because I'm loving this. There's a bathroom right behind that curtain. Oh, OK. Awesome. Dude, one thing I noticed about having to pee, dude, is as I get older, that kind of is not fun. But here's what I notice is some of these underpants, the stuff on them is too tight. So all night, your bladder has to pee, even with just a little bit of liquid in it. It's pressing all night. You're absolutely right. And also the fact getting fatter doesn't help. Like when I fly, I hate that feeling, pressing on my bladder. I'll fly. I always wear sweatpants and no underwear when I fly. And it's not to be creepy. It's because this way I feel like I'm not as confined as I was. I piss constantly. So the fact that I can go for however long we've been talking without peeing. Every time you're rogue, I got to pee at least twice. Oh, yeah, it's so hard in there. Yeah, but I always just go, I got to piss and usually he does too. So it's not a big deal. But like sometimes you just talk right through it and like, I have to go to the bathroom. What am I doing? Oh, when like when you're riding the bag, when you're sleeping at night, you have to pee and you don't get up. Yep. That mesmerizing, dark thing you do. You're like, I'm just going to lay here. Have you ever wet the bed as an adult? Oh, no, as a kid, I wet the bed. Oh, I wet the bed. I was probably 27. I wet once. Last time I did. I know I've done it more recently than I've done it since my wife has been there too. A few times I've wet the bed. But I don't care. I don't feel bad. Sam used to think I was crazy, but I'm like, it happens once in a while. You sleep every night and you pee every day. You don't think they're going to cross paths once in a while? Yeah, like two ships passing in the once in a while. They meet. You think it's crazy? Yeah, once in a while, you're sleeping. You have to piss and you're like, I'm no. You dream about being in a pool. You dream about being in the ocean and you wake up and there's urine on you. And I go right back to sleep. I'll throw a towel on it, of course, but an animal. I'll put a little sawdust on it. A little something and I'll lay into it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But I remember as a kid, I was so scared going to bed that I had to do all these checks and balances in my room because I didn't realize why I wet the bed for so long. And it wasn't like about six months ago. I was remembering, oh, dude, well, when you went to bed every night, you would have to like look and open a door, look in a closet, look at a certain way, lean something against the door on the inside. Then on the outside, you'd have to like look at certain like it was no joke. It was probably a 13 minute process every night. Were you afraid of? I was just afraid of like people getting in from outdoors. I was afraid of like killers, murderous disease, hypothetical, yeah, yeah, boogeyman, you know, and we lived in like a kind of scary neighborhood, so I was just I was just scared of all that. And but I remember like, dude, no wonder you slept in fucking crazy. I would fall asleep like this or something couldn't cut my throat. I remember really. And it was so funny. I didn't I forgot about this, but for years I did that. And I was like, dude, no wonder you with your hands. You sleep like that. I would sleep like that because I didn't want something to cut my throat. I wanted to cut my hand first. I would know. Right. Right. Yeah. Of course. And I don't know what made me so scared. Although if somebody was we had to wear with all the get in with a knife, they could have just taken a feather and tickled your nose. And then you went like that. And they got to slice the jugular. There's ways around that. Yeah. I didn't think ahead. Do you sleep on your back? I can't sleep on my back. No, that's crazy. Oh, you lay on your side like that. I'll lay on my side. Yeah. OK. That I can do that. I feel like it's OK. I want to talk about Kill Tony. You've been labeled by some as one of the best Kill Tony guests, which is kind of rare because they hate everybody kind of. They do. Yeah. They're like old ONA fans, too. They're just animals. Yeah, they're animals. They hate everyone. But I think I love doing that show. Like, you know, you did the garden. Yeah, I did. Yeah, it was like a five or six minute standup set. That's cool. It's tough to do there. It is a different energy, man. And I did it last year, but they didn't film it for me. They just kind of shot it for a clips. But when you're doing the panel, I would write like at the mother ship. I've done the panel a lot. And I always like to to give the if I can give the comics a bit of advice. I try to because a lot of those guys are really terrible and a lot of them are really good, but they're just raw. And as a new comic, man, I was so fucking easily wounded that if someone like made it seem like I really had nothing, I probably would have quit. So I always try to like fuck around. And if I can say something that helps them, I try to. That's a good point. Yeah, I think I remember now that you said that. I remember like one of the first nights I ever did comedy or maybe the third or fourth time, like I started like that in New Orleans and Mark Norman was there. Dane Foshe, a couple of some some local guys, Scotland Green, some different comedians down there. And but I remember the bartender said, hey, man, you did a good job. And just something like that little kept me coming back for the next two months. Yeah, because somebody who who's in the know, somebody who's in that scene, recognized it and what you're right. The bartender in a comedy club or in a comedy scene, they see everybody. Yeah. So when they like you, you're like, all right, I must be doing something right because they see everyone who comes. There was a guy named Rob Rascals, who's a bartender. And he always liked me and he was always like, yeah, you're really funny, man. And that gave me confidence back then because every comic came through there. And the fact that Rob thought I was funny meant something. You know what I mean? Like that's like one of the comics respect you. Oh, yeah. You feel like, fuck, I'm doing something right. Because the guys that are the hardest to make laugh or the most critical about it, like what I'm doing. Yeah, one day it was coming off stage and Bill Burr said something. I had to go on before him at the Dolby Theater and I was so nervous. I'd never even been on a theater stage before and I did pretty good. Right. Just went good. And I was coming off and he's like, pretty good, man. You know, some some little even just getting him to even fucking even if you just spit on my back, you know, yeah, if you did come on one of my lay out and been like, that's thank you. There's something just multiple mixed about you. Yeah. Have they had the audience stop cheering, Clarice? But yeah, it would have been perfect, dude. But yeah, just it's so funny, the little things like that. What do you think about Kill Tony and that whole like when you see that? What do you think about? Did you see it as a phenomenon? Like, do you see it as like a chain? Like, what do you think about it? I think it's great because it gives a lot of the people who bad mouth it. It's like it's really it's honest. It's like these young guys are getting up on stage. Some are brand new and you're watching this minute process. Very hard to be funny in a minute. So hard. And I love the fact that because Tony is so fast. Like he really is quick, like lightning fucking fast. And when he plays with people, sometimes they'll be terrible on stage, but they'll win him over in the interview. So he gives you a shot. You have a fair shot at Kill Tony. No one can interrupt your minute. And during the interview, if you have a comics brain and you're funny, you'll be acknowledged as being funny, even if your set wasn't good. I don't feel like there's any bias like, hey, we're going to get this guy because he thinks this. So we're going to choose that guy because he thinks that I agree. I think there's a very it's a very honest formula. I love doing it. And I just have a fun time when I do it. It's so pressure free and it's just fun to fuck around and riff. It's like radio. Like I love doing that show. Yeah. And you get to be around other guys like you're saying, you know, you just get to be around another group of like comics are all together. There's the blind guy. There's the Chris Rogers is doing art, you know, it's like or the black guy. They took his eyes out for being black or whatever, just like, come on, dude. Those times have changed. But OK. But it's just and then Tony is in a weird way. It's so perfect because Tony's almost always he's kind of the bad guy. Yes, he's the wizard, but he's also the bad guy. Right. Like so, you know, he's like because he's so like he can be so just cutting. Yes. That in the end, he's almost always the bad guy. And yes, some of those people are setting themselves up for complete failure. Some of them just want a moment of that pain of being up there. And some of them they're getting up there to try it. And it's it probably gets a lot of those bugs out of there, just the nerves out of their system. Yeah. If you could survive in that, it's a huge stage. Even if you're just doing the mothership, you still know how many people are going to see it. And he's a sniper like you don't mean he picks up on everything. But if you're good, if he thinks you're funny, he'll see. He won't like go on and go trash this guy because I have to acknowledge you as being funny and have a good time talking to you. So I think if you go into it with that and you know, like, hey, it can go either way. I think you're going to have a good time, but I couldn't have done it six months in. I would have been fucking terrified to do that show six months in. Oh, it would have been so crazy. And that just shows you that times are different somehow. I think with people seeing clips of things, the the the psychology of society changes and how people are able to be something and not like when I was coming up, I couldn't just I don't think on and done that and knowing that that many people could see it would have been way too scary. Yeah, it would have been terrifying, but the balls on like, because they see guys like all these guys that are coming through, they're all doing well. The ones that have kind of come through, you know, Cam Patterson is doing great. He just made SNL. He did. OK, I had heard that, but I didn't want to say it. I didn't know if they announced it yet. You just took it. Please. Good for Cam. Good. Yeah, I heard that last week. Good for him. Tommy Brennan, Jeremy Colhane, Cam Patterson and Veronica Sloe, Sloe Kowska. That's great. Good for you. I'm happy that they that was official. I congratulate them. I'm like, I won't say Ari Maddie is very funny. Christina Mariani, Lucas, Mariani is very funny, too. Yeah, look, it is very good. A good group of people there. And I know Fiona Colley. I'm forgetting some people, so I apologize. But the owners from here, I think, isn't she? She redheaded. Yes. I don't know where she's from. She might be. Is she does she seem like she's like in a wheelchair or whatever? I did get that impression. OK, yeah, yeah. Yeah, very, very definitively got that impression when she wheeled in. I wasn't as a union seem like it. That like right now, I seem like I'm in a wheelchair because I'm sitting here. But when somebody wheels in, you can say without reservation, that person's in a wheelchair. It's all you just. That was a blessing is Fiona. She should be on SNL. She's great. She and I have actually worked together on the same show a few times. So I just, yeah, I, yeah, same. Yeah, I like that whole crew. And they're all they're all nice. Like, yeah, you see them on the events now and they're getting real followings, so many of them. So it's nice to see these these young comics doing really well. And some some people, I don't know why anybody would be grudge those guys. It's like there's room for everybody. Like that's what Rogan always says. And that's one thing that I admire about him the most. He always says that there's room for everybody. There's room for all of us to lift each other up. Yeah, I'm not afraid of my spot. And like we all as we get older, you feel like I suck. I'm worth it. Like it's it's it's just a part of what made me a comic to begin with. I mean, if I had great self-esteem, I would not have gotten into this line of work. But that that part of me is remained the same. But as far as shitting on other people, we're trying to keep other people down because of what they say or their belief. It's just such a weak, pussy thing to do. It's like, who the fuck cares? Like, I don't care what other guys are talking about on stage. As long as you're not stealing material. Yeah, whatever point of view you're talking about. Good, make it funny. Yeah, I don't even have time to think about that. No, but guys do. You do the joke from the wrong angle and people like, whoa. And I like because and it's dishonest when people criticize that. It's not like, hey, I'm old and I can't handle young people being. It's that I think it's dishonest and and like attacking other comics for material points of view is a way for you to climb socially. It's become one more way to climb the ladder. It's not based. These purity tests are just one more way for people to climb the ladder. They give you a purity test. You fail. They climb a little higher because they gave the test. It's nonsense. But that ladder has fallen so far down in society. I think people are just like whatever that whole system was for so long is disappearing so much. You know, I think that's why it's like. Yeah, I don't know. People just make their own choices now. Like who's going to listen to some article or some fuck? You know, it's like I believe we're on a space where more and more it feels like people would make their own choices, but maybe not. You hope so. I mean, and I've never like I never no one changes my mind. Like I think for myself, like everyone can say what they want because I think for myself, like people will say things about like when he says that they'll come after a rug and what he says is dangerous. And I'm like, well, have you listened to him? And they're like, yeah, did he change your mind? No. Well, then why don't you give everybody that credit? Like people give themselves the ability to to to go through information intelligently, but they think the rest of the public are a bunch of blithering tards who can't do it. Yeah. And it's like, no, you're not the only one who can sift through information. And some people don't operate, but do not make their decisions from information based on the analysis of the information. They base it on how the information makes them feel. And I don't think that those people are necessarily one is necessarily more right than the other sometimes. Yeah. And it's hard to kind of like just tune it all out. I tried to I like through us years, I didn't check at mentions on Twitter. Like I just don't I don't give a fuck what everybody's talking about. Oh, yes. What does he say about that? Give us a shit. I don't have time to. Yeah, I don't. I really don't. And I don't care. Yeah, it's not interesting to me. Like, you know, if it's a friend and I'm talking to him, sure. But do I care who other people vote for? Like it is of no relevance to me whatsoever. I don't know how people and like if you say something good about Trump, but this policy he has that I very much disagree with. But like you say anything good about him. Like he's a foul. Could you say shut up? Right. Take your little identity hat off. Just be a person. Have a conversation. When you think about this stuff like in DC, they just had where they they want to clean up some of these cities and they're using the National Guard, which I've always thought is like, you know, police are in this tough space where everybody's filming them. And it's like it feels like they need more support somehow. A lot of cities have become overrun with crime. Trump's use of National Guard in Los Angeles was illegal. Judge rules. Yeah, I know Brandon Johnson in Chicago is not for it. He's the worst mayor in the country. Is he awful? Chicago's mayor pushes back as Trump administration readies immigration crackdown. That's what they say. Chicago's mayor is limited. How much is cities? Police Department can cooperate with federal immigration agents in response to threats from the Trump administration to ramp up immigration enforcement operations in the city. So it's just about immigration. And like they did. I don't know. They they didn't want National Guard helping with immigration. They didn't want to help National Guard immigration or troops. But if they're just doing it to control crime, it's like crime is it's a mess. I agree. As long as they're not interfering with people's comings and goings, if they're just patrolling the streets and giving the police some assistance, you know, most of the people who are against these policies, a lot of them don't live in those neighborhoods. A lot of them can leave their house without being fucking worried about being robbed by somebody selling drugs. So I think if it keeps people safer, as long as you're not infringing on their right to do anything. Yeah. But you know, I have a real sought look. Here's the reality. The most important thing Trump has done is he is he is honoring kiss at the Kennedy Center. And I'm going to tell you, there's nothing that has made me happier that any politician has ever done. Is he really doing that? Jean Peter, Ace and Paul, the original four members are being honored at the Kennedy Center. Nothing has made me happier than that. I love him. I love that he did that. I would hug him. I mean, he does a lot of interesting stuff, man. And I hope that some of his plans for the country and stuff are good, you know, like. I hope we see a lot of the things that he, you know, kind of tried to campaign on. And I think it's just really interesting when guys campaign and then when they get in office, I bet things are way different. And we don't know what those things are like, you know, but I hope that he has a lot of long term, like beneficial things for the everyday American, you know. I bet you Obama was very disappointed, like because he was like a young, not too tanked by politics guy, but he was still a relatively young guy. I voted for him. And he had all these hopes and dream. And then you get into it and you're like, oh, this is a there's a lot of muck and glue and things. I bet you that his idealism somehow got squashed a little bit when he saw how it really worked from being deep in it. And these things that you think you're going to fix, you can't. Yeah, what does it say here? What effect did Trump's crackdown on crime in Washington, D.C. led to a significant drop in reported violent crime and property crime also generated controversy strains on the legal system and a dramatic increase in immigration related arrest. Violent crime fell by about 49 percent compared to the same period that previous year with overall property crimes in Carthus, also down by 30 to 40 percent. I wonder if they're just using this as a ruse, though, for ice and immigration. But yeah, I don't know. I think that there's a genuine desire in cities that have really high crime rates to bring it down. Please. I think people's biggest concerns, they want to be able to leave the house. People care about abortion. They care about all this. But people want to be able to leave the house and go to work without being fucking hit over the head with a pipe. Like, you know, I mean, there is there is a really basic desire to want to get in your car without it being stolen at gunpoint. Like these things that we take for granted so many times, violent crime to me because it's such an avoidable thing. So avoidable. It's so avoidable. So if he's using these forces, the way he says he's using them, I have no problem with it. And I don't want to see, look, illegal immigrants who are housekeepers, who are just out working, who are whatever they're doing, like they're out building houses, they're out. I have no problem contributing, being being some great members of America. There are people who just want a better life. Like those people, I don't want to see kicked out. I know they're here illegally, but I still have empathy for someone doing that. But as soon as you commit crimes and like you commit a violent, a felony or even an assault out. Yeah. I mean, that's it. There should be no second chance. And if you're lucky enough to be here, don't commit violent crimes. I mean, I don't think that's crazy. Yeah. And especially if as a regular citizen here, if you commit a violent crime, that you're held to a certain standard, you know, yeah, you're going to jail. Yeah. You're not being released immediately. Yeah. I think there's a lot of holes. It's, it's tough. I don't know, man. You know, when we just try our best and you try your best just to show up for yourself every day and your new wife and. Yeah. It's not be a bad boy on the road. Yeah. Talking to her in the dog. Is that tough? It is because again, but it's not like there's one specific thing. It's tough because it's as addiction is selfish and like it's, it's about it's about getting high and it's about feeling that rush. So so many times you want to do things just to get away from yourself. Oh, yeah. Like I, I, I'm not happy with how I look. I'm like, I'm going to jerk off or I'm going to fucking. Yeah. Yeah. And I do that too much. I mean, I really do. I mean, up and down the fucking East coast, there are towels that probably should not be used by another person. My apologies to any guest who's drying off and your back gets scraped up because the towel is too rough. That's my bad. Yeah, it really is tough times, but it's, it's not, you know, what do they say? I'm not the man I could be or should be, but I'm not the man I was like, you know, my life is better now. I'm happily married. I mean, despite being annoyed at times of being married, I love the fact that my wife enjoys when I joke about us on stage. She's not sensitive. But like, you know what I mean? I just, Right. You can be free in your relationship. Yeah. She loves it. And we all send videos of like jerking off and stuff like that or no, do people do that? No. I mean, she sent me some nude photos and videos, but that's cool. We live together and like that's the one thing when you're married, that perverted stuff. Right. Sometimes because you can hook up whatever you want. Right. But if I asked her for a video jerk, she'd probably send it to me. She hasn't the past. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. I'll ask her. Eddie Money showed me some pictures of his new wife one time on a plane. Nude? Pretty nude. Whoa. I like Eddie Money. He's dead now, unfortunately. Dude, he said he hit a can of Huff one time so hard that one of his legs quit working. Really? Fuck yeah. He was a fascinating guy. He overdosed, survived a lot of stuff. Was his wife look good naked? Pretty good. I'll show you my wife's penis if you want. I mean, she wouldn't care. You're right. Yeah, she wouldn't care. Oh, dude, maybe just do a drawing of it for me. Okay. All right. You think? All right. Just show it. I'll kind of go like this a little. All right. I won't show it on camera just because. No, no, no. Just show it to me. I don't want to see all of it at once. Oh, yeah, yeah. She's, I can't show it on camera because she's a lady. She wouldn't care for that. No lady wants their penis shown completely on camera. Oh, for sure. Dude, I don't even want to fucking look at it. Oh, I won't show it to you if you don't want to look at it. No, I'm okay. I like. Let me see here. Hold on. You can, I won't just, I won't just hit you with it. Yeah, it's no surprise. You don't be like. Let me find an acceptable photo that she would be, that she would be proud of. Okay. No, no, she wouldn't like that. That's a video. I'll find one for you. Yeah. Take your time. I'm going to think about something else for a minute. All right. You want to see? Yeah. Hold on. Okay. Yeah. Whoa, brother. What the heck? Oh my God, Jim. Your wife has that? That's my lady. That's my best gal. Wow. That is a, that is a tall pussy. She's a tall lady. She's a tall lady. Oh, that thing's in 4-H, huh? Yeah. Oh, you got to spray some roundup on that. Yeah. God, yeah, you got to get back home. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I need a break. You know what I mean? You eat your body collection. You're like, I'll take a little break. I'll go back home. Oh, yeah. Bro, you could freak it out. You could file your nails down that day. Yeah. But it's funny. It's like, it really is. That's the main difference in the relationship. It's like compared to other women I've dated. As a person, there's no difference. Like our life is the same as anybody's life. Thank God she has a sense of humor. I love that she has a sense of humor. I love that you have to have that. Yeah. But some don't. I've dated people who would get mad if I talked about certain things. And I've even gone out with trans girls. It would be very mad at me just doing that. But so the fact that she has a good sense of humor, man. If she didn't, I wouldn't have done that. Like I'm fucking around. But yeah, that's correct. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, I would never even look at some guy's wiener, but it's a woman's wiener. Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends on people look at that differently too. Like there's a lot of people that are very anti that label being put on trans women. But I think that, you know, if you if you spend any time with my wife, it's just it's not a man's brain. And people are like, dude, just admit it. You're gay. We don't care. I understand why people say that. And I really do. Like I get it. And again, I couldn't prove the point in court because it did my partner as a penis. Like there's no way around that. Yeah. But you know, unless you have a long way to time to walk or a small ladder. That seemed like a woman's wiener to me. Well, yes, that's how I look at it. I mean, but I understand why people say just admit you're gay, but it's there's a difference. And I can't describe the difference, but I understand the difference internally. If I was a homosexual at this age, I would tell people, I don't give a fuck. Like if oh, yeah, like it's not a that I'm running away from saying something that people think I should say. You know, sometimes I miss vaginas. I mean, I like them. Yeah. But but hey, here we are. Here we are. And happy and happy. There you go, brother. Oh, yeah, that thing is a damn god. That thing's a damn lunchable. You got going on that. Yeah, you got to respect it. And you have a real meal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone's got to respect that. Like even somebody who's not into that lifestyle would go, you know what? Round of applause. Like, you know, sir, yeah. Unconceivable is is on YouTube now and always thanks for all the entertainment, man. Thanks for welcoming me on your show and give me a chance to just just get to ever even be on a radio show and make it fun. And are on a podcast. You guys were kind of in that early realm. It was kind of a hodgepodge in there. It was it was. Yeah. I mean, podcast. See, I remember Mark Marin used to occasionally when he was in town, if he needed a studio to interview someone who would use our production. Like we were there at the very, very beginning and good luck. I didn't see it coming. I mean, I knew it was going to be popular and I had a radio contract, but I didn't. I wish I jumped on it earlier. Yeah. But I wasn't allowed to. I had a exclusivity contract, but whatever gives a fuck, Jim. Yeah. You've been I think you've done the best job of being Jim Norton, man, from an outsider's perspective. It's been interesting. You're I think you're an inspiration for people to try and figure out how to best be themselves. I know it's a journey for everybody. But I think it's cool, man. I think it's interesting. You seem like kind of like a person that's kind of brave in the world. Well, I appreciate that. But I really is and none of my I haven't lost any friends over my life. Like, you know what I mean? Like whoever doesn't like I wouldn't. There's no one I wouldn't cut loose. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? I have my friends. I have no shame in that part of my life and who I love. Like, oh, yeah, it doesn't seem like it at all. It's a fun life. So I'm very lucky. I appreciate you having me on, man. I love what you do. Yeah, I gotta come do yours before the end of the year. Yeah, I would love that. I would really love that. Thanks, pal. Jim Norton, thank you so much. Thank you, Theo.