Sister Wives S6:EP9 Sister WIves on the Ropes with Notes to Self 444

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With me, Harriet Scott. We're on Magic Radio with Nikki Chapman, Gabby Roslyn and me, Mel Gedroj. And what a team we are. We're all on Magic Radio, playing the best variety. From the 80s to now. It's Glowtime on Magic Radio. Little Misrecap contains adult language and is intended for entertainment purposes only. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Little Misrecap. My name is Amy Archer. I'm your host. And today I'm with Amanda, as always, my twin flame, when beneath my wings, all the things. And today we're very happy to be joined by Melanie and Corey of Notes to sell 444. You know them, you love them, and they're here to rip up all things Robin Brown. So let's go. We're so happy you guys are here for this episode. Welcome, guys. Thank you. Thank you so much. We're so happy to be here. We I have idolized you guys from afar. You guys say all of the things that I wish that I could say without having everyone tear me apart in my family. Well, this is your safe space. We'll just pretend that no one is going to see this. And really, in reality, maybe 40 people see this, but, you know, we'll we'll hopefully you'll be able to feel like you can say what you need to hear. Yeah, yeah. So today we're going to talk about Sister Wives Season 6 Episode 9. It's called Sister Wives on the Ropes. Or as we know it, it's Robin. Don't make me a victim, sweetie. I'm quite capable of doing that myself. Yes. Mm hmm. Yes. So just so you guys know, I'm still rockin the cold. I still have a girl. Oh, God, I went to the ENT today. I'm just going to talk about this for a minute. And they they sprayed this stuff up my nose, which numbs my entire face. And they're sticking like all these scopes up there and everything. And they're basically like, you're fine. You have seasonal allergies. So I'm crying about this cold that I have. Anyway, I'll have a cough drop in my mouth just so everyone knows. OK, so Amanda's Amanda's going to talk us through today. And then we're all going to chit chat. But I wanted to know, Melanie and Corey, if you're OK, just kind of giving a little bit of your background and history with the show and kind of, you know, for people who might not know who you are. OK, yeah, we were both born and raised in the Pligamas Church, the A.U.B., which is where the Browns came from. I grew up with Christine and Mary and Matt Cody. The very first time you ever came out to any A.U.B. meetings, I was raised with four mothers and 34 brothers and sisters. And my dad is the current leader of the of the group. PSR, prophet, Syrian, revelator of the A.U.B. So yes, that's pretty important. You've got to give him all the labels. I'm kind of a big deal, apparently. Him or his labels. Yeah, I was born and raised in the same group. We knew it as the all red group growing up. We didn't know it was called the United Apostolic Apostolic United Brotherhood, whatever they they have. But where did I come from? Yeah, where? My dad had nine wives and 39 kids that he raised us all in the same house, similar to the Browns up in Lehigh. Wow. And I knew I grew up in Pinesdale, Montana, and Robin and her family were up there when they were young. Eventually, they moved down to Southern Utah, I think, or somewhere like that. But I have known the family since when I was young. I don't know them since I left the A.U.B. myself. Yeah, well, his best friend was Robin's brother growing up there. So that's correct. I just I could we could have a whole episode of me just asking Corey questions about Robin. So many people reach out to us and tell us so many different things that we actually never even reveal or talk about on our channel, just because we're there third hand, you know, we try to we try to stick to what we. You know what we know personally. But yeah, there's a lot of people that don't have a lot of kind things to say. To be honest with you, I don't know Robin as an adult. Right. A lot of the answers that I give is because I knew her mother. Right. No love loss. So presentation on the show. She's exactly like her mother. So yeah, we're not surprised. Yeah. So and I actually never even knew who Robin was. I mean, in the A.U.B. It's very, very easy to not know. We did not know each other until we had both left the A.U.B. And that's when we met. Interesting. But it's very easy to not know someone. I had no idea who she was until she came on the first episode of the show. And the first words out of Corey's mouth is, oh, my gosh, that family is so. OK, so that leads me to can I ask you both like maybe two sort of broad questions before we get into the episode? Sure. And Amanda, you jump in if you I'm sure you have a million questions brewing as well. For a long time. Yeah. So, Melanie, when you how do you reconcile the Cody we see today with the Cody you met as a young person? Because I mean, we even see how different he has become. Like, are we the only ones seeing that or is that pretty accurate? Like he almost looks unrecognizable. I think a lot of people think that his in his younger days, that that was all an act. No, no, no, I don't think so. I think he was very much that way. This this religion is hard and it really hardens people. It makes people angry and bitter. And because I mean, you're living with this constant knit picking at each other every day of your life for, you know, and he's juggling four relationships that are just, you know, ragging at him all the time. And so it is, it's a really hard, hard way to live. And it really, really damages people in the long run. And I think we see that with Cody. Oh, I feel like you're actually seeing who he's always wanted to be. Just couldn't be because I feel like that my father was very similar. At a younger age, my father was very optimistic that this was God's plan. That he they were all working together to create this. Yeah, this utopia to live and raise their children in. But as they lived it, as they dealt with the religion, they became jaded. They became hard. Yes, we had nine wives. He did not end up with nine wives. A lot of them left when he died. He only had two. Yeah. Wow. And so it is a hard life. So you're actually seeing the progression of Cody and the family, probably in a very utopia type. Hey, we're going to present this beautiful religion that we've been taught to the world. And then we get to see the process as it unravels. And that is the exact process that you see within the group, the groups itself. That's why I saw with my parents, but the problem, too, that you're seeing with the Browns is that in the religion, you are stuck in the confines of keeping sweet. And now they're no longer stuck in that. And so now they're in the world, if you will. And so they're learning how to speak their mind and say things back and do the things that in the religion, they would not really be allowed to or would do. And so I think that's why you're seeing it unravel and and as much bitterness as you're seeing coming from Cody is because and the women are like, Oh, my gosh, I feel so much lighter. I feel I can I can tell this guy to go fuck off if I want to. Yeah. Yeah. And so for them, it's a release. It's freeing for him. It's more like, you don't get to talk to me like that. What are you doing? And so for him, it's more damaging. So do you guys final question before we get into it? Do you have where do you stand? Because one of the most hotly debated things in the Sister Wise fandom is what led to the downfall of the family? Was it Robin or was it the show? Or was it going to happen either way? Like, where do you guys fall on that? For me, it's a combination of both, honestly. But because I personally don't think the family would have unraveled the way that they did, if it wasn't for the show, Robin would have come into the family and they all would have bit their tongues and they all would have kept sweet all the way up until they're dying or like in my mother's case, she didn't leave till she was almost 70. Wow. And so then they leave when they're at their absolute breaking point. So really the show saved these women probably 30 years of another amount of of bullshit that they don't know that they no longer have to deal with in the religion. They probably would have dealt with it and stayed with him. Oh, that's a good point. The show kind of saved them. But the show gave them the financial wherewithal to leave that they would not have had otherwise. 100% right. Right. They wouldn't have had the financial resources or even the mental capacity to say, I'm not going to tolerate this from you anymore. I'm and then speak their mind. Like when you see Christine tell Cody, yeah, we're done. That just doesn't happen. That that's very unique. And that's why I think he's so bitter towards her the most too. And again, we haven't watched a lot of the show. So I apologize. We've only watched season four. Yeah. You see, they would go get permission from leadership and whether the leader was leadership was going to allow that release. And most of the time the leadership say, no, you need to work on things. Interesting. Unless the leadership wanted that wife for themselves, for themselves, and they'd get permission. Interesting. Cause it seemed like both Mary and Janelle had a pretty easy time of getting their releases. Now they were doing it in light of the fact that they've been on TV. Well, and I think too, because Robin had been going to my dad for years for counsel and advice and my dad knew the intricacies of the family a lot more than any, you know, than he would have if, if they hadn't have continued. So they might have left the religion or left the church for years before that, but she still continued to seek guidance through my dad. So I, uh, God, I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall. I know, right? I know. Install listening devices and then just pump that out into a podcast. I know. Could it's illegal, but we could. Right. Right. Right. It's whatever my job. Amy had a prison. Right. The role I play here. All right. Amanda, take us away into what is an iconic sister wives episode. As Amy said, sister wives, season six, episode nine, sister wives on the ropes. So we begin, we start, we have a bunch of flash forwards to this panel or this debate or whatever you want to call it, because these people think that they are being absolutely attacked by the 12 people in this room. There's nobody there, but they think this is the worst thing that's ever happened to them. So we come back two days earlier and we find out they're doing this panel and they're hoping it could be a debate between the Browns and a bunch of people who have not had good experiences in polygamy. And Melanie, I listened to you guys on when you're on with Dr. Adam doing the episode where we first got to meet Khalid. Khalid is my hero, by the way. Oh, she's, she's adorable lover. So of these four people that are on the panel, do you guys know them personally in any way, shape or form? Okay. Yeah. Kristen Decker, I grew up with her. She was actually my dad's very first love. My dad's very first. Yeah. Other interest was Kristen. She didn't go by Kristen back then. So her name was Sylvia back then. But yeah, so I knew her personally growing up. And then I grew up with her son. Her son is my age. Okay. You can pick your names. I think she just changed it when I don't know why she changed it. I think she just changed it. She left. Okay. Okay. I get that. Makes sense. So on the couch, they're talking about how they're all nervous. And Cody says he's particularly nervous, though in about 10 minutes, he's going to say he's not nervous at all because Cody can't be consistent for 10 minutes about this because it's so personal. The one who's really most nervous through this entire thing is Christine. She's having a breakdown. They force her to do this. I hate every minute of this. I feel so badly for her. She does not want to do this. She literally says, this does not feel safe. Yeah. It's, I've never seen a family who uses and throws around the word safe so often. Yet here's somebody saying, this does not feel safe. I don't want to do this. And they're like, shut up. I literally wrote that sentence down too. Because I thought that was, that was pretty shocking because I promise you, if, if Robin said that, Cody'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not. They just the whole thing. Yeah. Mm hmm. He, it becomes to rewatch this entire show, knowing what we know now, how very clear it was, how little of a shit he gave about Christine always, always. Yeah. And to me, she's always been my favorite. So I've always felt now in retrospect, I feel even worse for her. So she says this is going to be hard because there's five panelists. Turns out there's only four and there's one of them and Cody's like, but there's five of us. She goes, yeah, but we're one thing versus all of these other opinions. Um, we see Aspen, she says she wants to go to support her mom because she's the very good, parentified daughter that she is and has to go protect her mother from all this. Also, she's us, we are her. She's nosy and she wants to see how all this goes now. Turns out Logan goes to, but no one cares about that. Please tell me you got the most important scene with truly. Yeah. Yeah. In a minute. Well, we're just going to, okay. Cause yeah, we are so into truly and even tell you, she's our favorite. She is. Um, so again, Christine's talking about this and how it's going to be an antagonistic environment and it's really about the fact that her aunt is going to be there. It's not just these other people. It's really all about her aunt, Kristen. Janelle talks about how this is a personal, this is personal experience versus personal experience and she feels like the deck is stacked against them. And this seems to be a theme and I'd love to hear what you guys think about this. Having experienced leaving the AUB and all of this of feeling constantly under attack. Yeah. I think that's pretty common because I felt that way, which is one of the reasons I wanted to start speaking out because I felt like people were constantly unfairly attacking the UB and then I start speaking out and I'm like, well, okay, well, if I'm going to be honest, let's just be honest. And then now people feel like I attack the UB. Um, but yeah, it does feel that way when you're, when you're constantly trying to, because these are people that you love. This is the only way of life you've ever known. And until you come to the other side of that, you genuinely, that's why I've said quite often, I don't feel like the Browns purposely went out to mislead people. They were doing what they've always been taught to do. Sure. And so they, now they're on the other side of it. And yeah, believe me, we're going to be talking to Christine soon. And this episode, we'd never seen this episode before. I wrote down a list of questions I want to ask Christine about this episode specifically because it does feel like a constant attack. Um, especially when it's people that you love and it's, it's the only way of life you've ever known. Oh, well, there's an interesting, uh, thing that they say here in, in this episode. Um, Christine is even saying, Hey, I feel like her aunt is attacking her, her entire lifestyle, her whatever. Well, her exact quote was what I want to find out why she hates my family so bad, which is nothing. Kristen never even said anything remotely close to that. Right. That's what it felt like to crit. That's why it felt so unsafe for Chris. Christine is because she felt like people just generally hated her. Well, and you said something about people feel like we're attacking the AUB. I don't feel like I'm, we get the AUB way too much down. Great way more than they deserve. I don't fully honest. I don't attack the AUB or the people within it. I make fun of and communicate their dogma, what they believe, but that belief system is in, in all of, so by me making fun of a dogma, I could be making fun of the Warren Jeffs group or any of these groups because they all believe the same dogma, but why? Just because we came from the AUB and we don't agree with your dogma, then we're somehow attacking the AUB or not. We're not attacking the institution as a whole. Right. And I think if you're sharing your experience, you're just saying, this is, this is how I know it is. This is what happened. And someone feels like that's an attack. Well, then that might be a mirror that's holding up to you saying, well, then maybe something's wrong. If I'm, I mean, I could just say I was just holding my cat and if someone starts, oh my God, you were holding a cat. Like I have no problem. I was holding my cat. It's just a fact. There's nothing. I'm perfectly comfortable attacking systems of oppression. Oh, sure. So, but I have a question. So I could have sworn, did you guys read Christine's new book? Yeah. So I could have sworn and correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't she have some sort of job where she spoke about polygamy or was like, so she's done this before, right? Like, why does this feel different for her? Is it because of the aunt? Is it because there's an opposing view here? Like I forget what that job was that she was doing. She was in a group called voice principal voices. It was with one of my other mothers and one of my actually really good friends. And then Christine and they were, they were sent to go speak to legislatures about, you know, protecting people in polygamy. So speaking out against polygamy was protection for the women and children in polygamy. So I feel if you talk to Christine about this now, I've heard her say in other interviews, a lot of this was producer induced. Okay. The producers wanted a bigger story on this episode than what they were getting. So even the whole bathroom scene and everything, it's produce, it's producer induced anxiety. It's not necessarily real anxiety. And Christine is very, very bubbly, happy all the time. She's very non-confrontational. Yeah. So this felt a little confrontational with a family member in front of other people. That makes total sense. And we'll get to a little bit when you get to this part of the recap where I'll point out how wonderful Robin was to her just before they went over to the, to the event. Okay. Yeah. Okay. As I make my face. So, um, she says, talking about her aunt being there and that she's one of the panelists and she's had her aunt had a bad experience, which is why she left. And she feels like she's really against it. And she said, Christine feels like her aunt is just going to attack her when she's like, I'm living, I'm living, this is my choice to be here. I'm very happy to be here. Now we can argue whether that was actually a choice for Christine or not. It's the only, it's only life she knew. Was that a choice? So Robin asks Christine if she loves, if she's nervous about this because she's family and she loves her, or do you dislike her because she's anti-polygomist? Okay. Or is it a little of both? Probably is a little of both for her, but everyone agrees. This is a tough place to be in. And again, we come back to that line of Christine's like, I want to know why she hates my family so much. And nothing, I don't know anything else that Kristen deck. I mean, I, I've know a bit about her book and stuff, but I don't know at any time where she's come out and been like, I hate Cody Brown and his family. Right. And she's certainly not doing it. She's not us. No, no, not even. I hate Cody Brown and his current family. Let me just be clear. Not his fast family. Yes. Right. Right. So now we learn about the folks on the opposing panel. We've got Kristen Decker that we've talked about. We have Willie Steed, who is from the Warren Jess FLDS. This key broke my heart. This kid breaks my heart. We have Colleen who we had met before. She's from the Kingston community. And this really interesting woman, Christine Murray. Can we talk about Christine Murray at some point here? Cause this woman is what is happening here. She has a huge documentary coming out on April 8th. Okay. Yeah. You're a hundred percent sure that's her. Oh, I'm a hundred percent. I know the Netflix documentary coming out. Yeah. Oh, okay. I'm going to be covering that with Samuel Bateman. Yeah. So she was. Yeah. So she got sucked into him. Got it. Got it. And I don't know if she married him. I don't. I was stunned. I heard that on this episode, but she, she has been working undercover with it. The FBI, with her husband working on that documentary, I believe, is what the documentary will come out to be. I did just kind of have an ah-ha as we are sitting here talking, and I don't know how much of it I should say on camera, but I'm one of the reasons there are some content creators out there who created content around sister wives that had been extremely damaging. And most of the family have had to get restrained or no contact orders or restraining orders or whatever, get some of these content creators and Kristen worked hand in hand with some of these content creators. I'm wondering if that's why Christine felt so upset with that. I don't know. I just thought about that as we were talking about Christine and Marie because there's a connection there too. And so you keep doing that. Are you going to say something? Our upbringing also has something to do with it. Right. Right. We were taught that the family was the most important. So what Christine is saying here is the family is the most important. Her family that she's created here. And even though Kristen is family, she is now you were basically trained. If somebody left the group, they were being led away by. We call it the group. Yeah. The AUB is called the group to us. They were being led away by Lucifer. So you didn't want to listen to them. You didn't want to have them. We were taught that Lucifer had a silver tongue. And so if somebody had been led away, they would talk to us and lead us away. And so a lot of her thing, a lot of the things that I feel like that Christine is saying here is what we were trained from childhood to repeat. Sure. But I'm also wondering because some of these major content creators had inside sources and so I'm curious if that down on. Yeah. Yeah. She didn't want to talk because some of her family members were giving away some. And I just wrote that down on my list of questions to ask Christine. Yeah. Because I'm curious if there's a connection there. Yeah. If that's why she feels so unsafe around Kristen. I don't know. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Just a theory. Yeah. This Christine Marie woman. Well, we'll talk more about her if she's an interesting one. So Aspen talks about when she met Colleen before, when she and Logan and Maddie went to that group that were helping folks get out of polygamy. And Colleen's whole take on it is that people don't talk enough about the bad parts about polygamy, which I think is interesting because I feel like outside of the Browns prior to season 12, you were hard pressed to find anything positive about polygamy, except for the Browns. Yeah. Yeah. Which is so interesting. Because every documentary about polygamy is about how terribly damaging it is. And it's so interesting because later the professor says something like people are searching for an alternative, alternative lifestyle. Like they want something different than monogamy. So polygamy. And I'm like, wow, how far we've come, right? With ethical non-monogamy and stuff like that there was a time where it was like I'm either monogamous or I'm polygamous. Right. So wild. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so Kristen, her whole agenda is she wants people to know that the polygamy as a whole isn't what the Browns family is. It's a lot of heartache. It's a lot of sadness. It's a lot of pain. Willie tells us he's there because every polygamist experience isn't great. And the Browns paint it good all of the time. Hmm. They paint it mostly. They do. They paint it mostly good. And their issues are like small. They don't let the big stuff. Right. Like Janelle doesn't want to be. Janelle doesn't want to be part of the jewelry line. Right. She's like, plus sign Holy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but this, I'll just point out right here in this part of your dissection is that most polygamous people that we know did not watch the show us included because it wasn't real and we knew that it wasn't real. And we knew that nobody lives polygamy the way that they were representing it. Okay. Those people that were watching it were those that had really left and were frustrated that they were trying to put it in a. Oh, okay. Okay. A positive light, if you will. Yeah, which is why we have not seen the show that what just why today is the first time we've watched this episode and we're trying to catch up now. We're on season four, but. So a lot there. Sorry, you've you got 16 seasons to go, but it gets good. I tell people all the time, you have to get through a lot of flash mobs, but then it gets real good at some point. And he's a very different Cody. And he's a very good Cody. I know, I know it's wild. Little Miss recap will return in a moment for ad free episodes. Visit littlemissrecap.com slash support. New sponsor alert. Today's show is sponsored by bi-optimizers. Do you ever feel a little off at night? Like you're waking up more tired than when you went to bed. It's not always just stress. Sometimes our bodies have trouble navigating the hormonal changes that come with age. And I know for me, I used to lie, wake, worrying, tossing, turning, and then wake up feeling completely exhausted. 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Your home may be repossessed if you do not keep up with payments on your mortgage. Hello, you. It's glow time on Magic Radio. Join me, Gokwann, at breakfast. With me, Harriet Scott. We're on Magic Radio with Mickey Chapman, Gabby Roslyn and me, Mel Gedroich. And what a team we are. We're all on Magic Radio, playing the best variety. From the 80s to now. It's glow time on Magic Radio. Nothing beats a jet-to holiday. Right now, we've got some great deals available. Plus, you'll get the best choice of rooms and hotels. But now, with just a £60 deposit per person, enjoy our VIP customer service and go direct from London Gatwick. Nothing beats a jet-to holiday. Package holidays you can trust after a natural protected, subject to availability conditions. It's very, very strange. So Kristen talks about the fact she was born into polygamy as you talked about Melanie and her mom was the first of 13 wives. I gotta tell you, as an only child, all of this just blows my mind. I'm like, what? You have 39. What? I don't even understand. I don't even have three cousins. Like what? I don't understand this. Oh, shoot. I have over 350. Yeah. I mean, literally I have two cousins. Oh, gosh, where? Yeah, that'd be crazy. Yes, I know. It's like, you know, I'm not gonna be able to tell you how much I love you. I know it's like, you're probably looking at me like, what? You have two cousins and you're like, I have 300. What? I don't, both of these are strange to both of us. So Kristen married at 17 and they weren't married long before he began flirting with and courting other wives. And after 33 years, she's like, I can't do this anymore. So at 50 years old, she left and she's like, I get so excited when I see younger people leave because they get to have so much more of their life. So, can I just talk about this for one second? Of course. We talk about this a lot on Little Misrecap, how women reach a certain age and they go over the, we call it the fuck's bridge. You get over the other side of that bridge and you just give no fucks anymore. And it happens around like 40, 45. So it's very interesting to me that most of Cody's wives left in their fifties. She left when she was 50. And Melanie, you said you knew somebody who left at almost 70. Her mother. Yeah, mom. So like people, like I just think women, especially now are reaching a time where they're like, I can have my own money. I can have my autonomy. I can do my own thing. I'm not putting up with this anymore. My kids are grown and it's just so fascinating to me. I wonder if there's studies on like the average age of leaving high control religions and if it's around this, I think you'd find it in about that age group. I'm just so fortunate and lucky that I left. I started my leaving process at 25. Yeah. Yeah, I it's it is amazing that there's something that happens to women in their forties and fifties where we're like, not doing this anymore in a multitude of ways. We're just done. My mom was still having babies. So she had her last night, 46, which is one of the reasons I think she didn't leave until she was so much older. Yeah. Oh my God. We've been my worst nightmare at 46 to have a baby. Yeah. So, um, Colleen, we find out her mom was the seventh of 14 wives and she had left three years ago and she's really afraid that Cody will interrupt her with his, I mean, their beliefs. So Colleen is clearly going straight to Cody, though interestingly, when she was on the episode before she did admit like Cody's not like her dad. Cody was not like a lot of the other men. She was falling under his spell. I was worried about her. Now she grew up in a, please correct me if I'm wrong, an even more fundamentalist and even more repressed group. Well, I think actually they're not more repressed than, uh, the A, I would say they're the most liberal and then you've got the A, B, and then you've got FLDS. Oh, wow. The difference with her group is that they were so incestual. So that's, that's the difference. Yeah. She starts talking about the incest part in a little bit too. So Kristen talks about when she met Cody, when he and Christine were courting and she's like, Christine was so into Cody. She was so lit up by him. And Kristen thought that they were a great couple, but now she says, I want to kidnap Christine and tell her she doesn't have to do this. That's, that's a switch. So now we get to the day before they're going to go to UNLV to meet with Amy's new favorite person, Dr. Jankoic. Thanks. I can't say his name properly. It's, uh, I have a phonetically here. Thank you. Jankovac. Jankovac. Thank you. Anytime there's a V and a W that's a V, I always get very confused. And we're going to see him again later. He's going to come back and study the Browns and then have the famous line of who's the sex wife, who's the, who's the fun wife, who's the chores wife. At that, you'll enjoy that one when they get there. Oh, wow. So they're going to meet with him because he's going to moderate the panel. Now we see Trulie having a full on meltdown. Okay. While Christine's trying to leave and she's just screaming. They're, they're at a whole era where Trulie is just screaming Christine's face at all times. Truly is our way in through the audience. Amy assigns a lot of power. So, okay. So at this point, I don't know if you guys picked up on this subtlety, but I, I did and I could be way wrong here. But at one point truly goes across the cul-de-sac to Robin's house and she's on the porch and Christine says to Aspen call Robin and tell her truly is at the door, it's Robin locking her doors in the middle of the day in the cul-de-sac. Yeah. I have a problem with that. They're in a gated community. They're the only ones who live in that cul-de-sac and it's the middle of the day. And that's all coming in out of each other. Yeah. You don't, you don't want to get caught banging your husband in the middle of the afternoon because some little neighbor kid walked through that. That's true. That's your husband's child. What if truly is like, daddy, I see you in there. This is what I'm just saying right now. Robbins, like, like, like, Daly Draper running into Don Draper. That tells me everything I need to know about Robin. Yeah. Cause I guarantee you asked Janelle, how often she locked her doors in that cul-de-sac. Right. Or Christine. Never. Never. Janelle probably didn't even, Janelle's one of those people who doesn't even close the backslider. She just, it's wide open. Rodens can come in. Animals can come in. I just gotta say she probably doesn't even shut her doors. No. Right. She did live in a, in a TP outside of Cody's home at one point. So really. Yeah. No, we both caught that moment too. And, and it was like, you know, that they already had worked out some sort of play thing cause Christine's not just sending truly over there out of the middle of nowhere. And so why is Robin not with the door open greeting her saying, come on in, sweetie, because she knows she's coming. But Robin wants, Robin wants so desperately to fit into the family and to integrate, but like she's constantly boundaries and blocking. Like it's so weird. That is the girl games that Robin doesn't like to play that right there is exactly because what it teaches this little four year old, she, I think she was four, maybe five. I don't know how old she was. Is that I have control and you wait until I give you permission. That's what it teaches that little girl. And don't come near my refrigerator or I will. Yeah. Exactly. And that my home isn't your home. Yeah. Exactly. When in theory, we should be one family. Everyone's one of Christine's kids. So she's Farrell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's so amazing. You're a quote for those of you on audience. Christine's children. Yeah. Yeah. So Janelle says that their goal is not trying to convert people. And Robin says that there aren't many plural families that are willing to talk. And Cody says that the risk of being public, the risk of being public keeps most people from doing it. Kristen says she's feeling confident because they know they are right. And that polygamy is harmful. And the more people need to hear about it. Again, I'm going to say most of what you hear about polygamy is the negative. But okay, that's what you need. I mean, we saw the flashback to the Warren Jeff's footage 85 times in seasons one, two and three. Right. Where they have like the three shots of the poor women in their prairie dresses over and over again. And so they're nervous and excited. Willie thinks this is really important to let the public know about what's going on behind the scenes. So he tells his story. He's from a family of 42. Good God. His mother was the third wife with 14 children. And he says he struggled being raised in that and left a year ago with nothing other than the people who left with him, who it turns out were his mom and six of her daughters. So it sounds like he was like the son, the mom got all the other girls out and he like tagged along. Thank God. Yeah, himself out of there. And Kristen says she's really excited to see Christine. She loves her, even though they're on opposite sides of this issue. I had to tell you, I felt like Kristen the whole time was like exuding love for Christine, not hatred by any stretch. But sometimes that's even scarier. Like Christine is just totally going into an unknown. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she doesn't know how she's going to show up, but she says it's going to be hard, but we're going to love them regardless. So now we go back to Yonah V. We meet again with the professor and he talks about how he never got to get in with the Warren Jeffs folks, but he did do a lot of work with the Centennial community. So this is his thing. And I went and looked at his CV. He does. He has done a lot of research in and around polygamy. Amy, what do you want to say about this guy? Cause I know you're dying. Full disclosure. I worked in academia for a long time and I just am sort of soured on it. It's on the whole thing. So I brought up his rate mind professor. Okay. And he has a total score of 3.4, which is not good. And so some of the comments are exactly what you would expect. He has no interest in actually teaching, would rather talk to himself in a mirror. He's friendly, but a horrible teacher. So many typos and errors in communications. You can't understand what he's saying. We'll ramble for hours. No idea what I learned in his class. Now, to be fair, I got reviews like this too. And I was up there like dancing and putting on a whole show for everybody. But like you're just not going to reach anyone or everyone, but so many of these have, he just likes to talk about himself. He just likes to talk about himself. So we're not shocked that he got himself on television. So now we're connected himself with a Cody Brown, right? Cody Brown also likes to talk about himself. Yes, he does. He loves it. And to say that Cody says to Sir Professor, you must have something at stake to be doing this. And he's like, no, I'm just nosy and curious. Like, Cody, you're not that important. I love how Mary's like, so professor. I'm really glad you're doing this. So she's so cute. She is. She's very funny. So Professor said, the professor says, he knows that the vitality of this family really hinges on the husbands, that how successful these families are really goes back to the husbands. And he's like, look, relationships are complex to begin with. Plural relationships are more complex. And so he's wanted to study how these family operate, where successes were, why some were successful, why others were not. And Janelle thought it's kind of weird that she's being analyzed as a cultural group, because she's like, this is just my family and now I'm a cultural group. I'm not sure what's happening here. But they like him so far because he's been very respectful of them. He hasn't spit in their face. So I guess he's good. Can I can I ask a question of your own experiences, Melanie and Corey? So another thing that we talk about a lot in the Sister-Wise fandom is, is Cody a leader, right? And if he's not, like, is that the problem? So in your experiences with polygamy, is this true that in order to have a quote successful relationship, whatever that looks like, that the lead that the man does sort of, because I think Cody tried to run his family like a democracy at first, and that was the problem. He wasn't, he didn't have that authoritarian vibe. Like in your experience, is that the secret sauce? Does it have to be like kind of a heavy handed leader? Only when there becomes a favorite wife. If there's not a favorite wife in the system, but let's just be real, Mary was that in that position before Robin came out. And I, I love Mary and definitely not, you know, but she definitely was in that position. And if that man can't, once he starts favoring another wife, I mean, all respect from the other wife just goes out the window. They don't respect him anymore. What we're going to, from your perspective, what do you think? Oh, I agree that the, the, in our family, yes, my dad was the authority. He was the final say. Yeah. And all the wives respected him in, to an extent. Um, I did have mothers that would like full, you're not telling me what to do. Yeah. Sorry, veto. And it is usually took one or two mothers coming together and going, no, that's not going to work. Um, and then they could veto, but for the most part, he was the charismatic leader. He was the one that won these women over and, and, and ran the, ran the house successfully, how successfully not very. I mean, eventually the charisma disappears and it's an exhausting way to grow up. It's a, it would be exhausting for me to try to have, uh, not only multiple wives, but one, one is all I can handle. The other part of it is there were so many children. It's hard to connect to every single one. Yeah. Yeah. Some of us got lost in the shuffle. Sure. Sure. Yes. We had a connection with this mother or that mother, but for our dad, he really, really tried, but 39 kids. It's impossible. I can't even keep up with two. It's impossible. So you guys probably saw this already if you're watching from season one, but, you know, we see Joe Dogger come into this a lot and he runs his family, you know, everybody has to be in place and do this. And, and Cody, like Janelle is almost like, wow, that's hot. Like the way that Amanda and I talked about this a lot, like we thought Janelle was going to run off with that family. Yeah. So I'm wondering, you know, is there more is, is. Do we see more Joe Dogger type situations than we do Cody situation? Yeah, I would say so. I, I mean, I know Joe's Dargars family personally and my kids went to school with their kids. So we also heard it from their children's perspective too. Cause yeah, one of their children was very best friends with one of our children. Okay. And then I worked for Joe for almost 10 years. So, well, okay. So yeah. So I did know the family. I grew up with two, the twins I grew up with them. Okay. And so yeah, I would say that they're worse than Joe Dargars. Oh, okay. I think, I think Joe Dargars very much of an authoritarian. Yeah. He likes, he runs a tight ship. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that when you get a wife that is, is abused right out of the gate, as Janelle is, but then again, see, this is where it's so hard because it's like, well, Janelle, maybe you should have got married on Mary's birthday. Like, I don't know. Maybe you just brought that on yourself. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But then she was very verbally abused and whatever. Sure. And of course. Then yeah, I feel like somebody like Robin comes along and then it gets way out of control. And so Janelle goes, we need that authoritarianism. I want that because this is getting out of control. And so that's interesting. That's a really good point. So her wanting that was maybe a response to Robin. Exactly. And because she dealt with it with Mary for so long, but she could put Mary on ignore. She can do whatever she had some level of. I personally think she was best in the sack, but yeah, my personal, that's my, that's what I think is that Cody preferred sex with her over all the other wives. So she always had that one thing over Cody, that Robin comes along and she kind of loses some of that. Cory, we're going to hang up and Corey's be like, dude, you really just said whatever you were thinking. And so, uh, and so that's where she went, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's rain it in because she lost some level of control that she might have had before. Does that make sense? That makes total sense to me. And don't worry, we've had many conversations about Cody and Janelle sex life. We agree. We agree that there was a lot going on there that was not happening in other spaces. Yeah, I definitely, but then you also get such authoritarianism that you get these wives who are beaten down because they literally can't make any decisions. Like they cannot go buy a stick of butter without their husband's permission. And so it's a joke between us. If we make a big decision, I'm like, if this thing blows up in our face, it's your fault cause you were the leader. Oh, we don't even, my husband, I don't even come from this and I do that to him too. I'm like, you make a choice and that goes war. This was your idea in that line. So Cody tells us that the loudest voices are those who left the church with a bad taste in their mouth and our good friend, the professor reminds us that you're not going to change the minds of people who are already sourdome polygamy, but you can maybe convince the neutral public that you guys are not all terrible. So, and they say, it's interesting because Amy, you brought this up. It's in conflict with kind of American culture, which is a monogamous culture. And, and at that point people were like, you're either monogamous or you have 25 wives and you're born just like you're two options out there. Christine now is real focused in on the logistics. Like, are we going to see these people or we have to interact with them? What's going to happen? She hasn't seen her. And the professor does a shitty job of moderating this panel. Oh, well, we don't even gotten to the job of the panel. Devolve into chaos. Yes. Like, are you even there, dude? No, no, he's not. But Christine's like, am I, where am I going to see her? I'm all nervous. And Christine says, being public at all is new to them and it's hard. And they're still trying to figure it out. And then this is going to be really hard to have her aunt on the opposite side. And she just doesn't want to be fought. And having that fight come from her own family is really hurtful for her. Robin, however, is sure that there's going to be an ambush because they are ambushed all the time. What? What? Well, by process servers and people collecting her debt, they're right all the time. Victoria's Secret Credit Card people are ambushing her trying to get your company. What do you want to pay your bill? You you are the family who every other episode finds some poor schlub and it has to explain the fact that you're polygamous to them. And except for that one woman at the Expo, who's like, I hate them. Susan, the hero we all needed. They're like, everyone's like, cool. I don't want it. But hey, who works for you? Like no one cares. Right. Robin, no one's ambushing you. No, she wishes. Angry at the families who do well and not speaking up about it. And the anti-polygamous for being so close minded. OK, girl, calm down. So Kristen says she wants Christine to realize that her family is unique. They are the exception, not the rule. And the polygamy in it on its own is dysfunctional. Christine, however, thinks that Kristen is just so against her and her lifestyle and she's going to come here to ruin her life, basically. I have like, oh, girl, I I just felt for Christine through this whole thing. She was not. She was so upset through this whole thing. I wish they didn't make her do it. This is ridiculous. Mm hmm. It's really hard. They could have gone the four of them without her. Yeah. Yeah. But then they couldn't guess what would that say? When I think my understanding is that they had to send a lot of cease and desist to a lot of their family members who did speak out publicly against the Browns. And so I'm curious if Kristen fell into that category. Maybe. Maybe. Especially with one particular content creator that she rubbed elbows with very consistently. And so I'm curious if maybe that's where I really do think that's where a lot of that fear come from. I just was trying to put that connection together too, since we watched the episode this morning, like, what is happening? This is unreasonable. Her amount of fear feels unreasonable. Yeah. For what we're seeing. Right. Yeah. It's you feel like the whole time there's got to be something else than just what they're showing us here. So it's the day of the debate. Christine is losing her damn mind. Aspen's like, Mom, calm down. I'm going to parentify. I'll be your mom here. You'll be fine. Don't worry. Mary's like, I don't care. We're fine. Who cares? People can believe what they want. I don't really give a shit. Other people's emotions are silly. Wow. Robin says her stomach is at knots. It's so hard to defend your own happiness. Well, Robin, at this point, I think you're the only one here who's happy. So I don't know what to tell you about that. Cody says their family has made their choices. Their kids are happy. I'm going to learn not as happy as you think, Cody. And their opinions don't matter, but it's going to be hard to have people tell him that he's a dope. Well, Cody, I don't know what to tell you. You're dope. You have I can name at least 10 podcasts without thinking hard that come out weekly this day. What a dope you are. Cody, I'll say your dope has literally paid my mortgage for the last two years. We had this idea once they moved to Flagstaff and all hell broke loose that there was this like group of people that would follow Cody around with signs like you suck, you're at a respectable distance. Yes, of course. But they'd see him at Target and start yelling at him all the time. We really enjoyed that idea. Janelle's like Cody is generally confident and he's the one who takes most of the heat in these conversations as the man in this system. And she's like, it isn't good, but Cody thinks it is that they're going to be dealing with all this. And now we meet Christine Murray. OK, this woman tells us she was mainstream LDS and she was led astray by a self-proclaimed prophet that led her to believe she should be in polygamy. And after nine months of a confusing experience, basically everyone confessed that this profit was a con and her sister wife was a fake believer and no one believed her. And then she was OK. Please tell me this is what the documentary is about, because I need more on this. More on this, please. I was stunned when we heard this. Corey's like, did you know this about her? And I said, I had no idea. She never told me anything like that. So some dude just was like, I'm the prophet in tracks. Well, that's that's a documentary. There's so many of them within the. Oh, my God, we know what does self-proclaimed profit. Profit. No, I'm the profit. Yeah. No, they're all over within. I mean, there are so many split off from the A.U.B. The A.U.B. split off from A.U.B. is an apostasy from another apostasy from another apostasy. I mean, they're all just I can name at least a dozen self-proclaimed prophets in just our in, you know, just our yeah. And we probably know half of them we know together. So that's not surprising to me. Wow. She said that. But it was because I didn't know that about her personally. Yeah. And I I've had several conversations with her and I did not know that about her. So I was kind of surprised. Hmm. Oh, interesting. But yeah. Yeah. This woman cracked me up. I'm like, wow, you are. I think she's hilarious. You're dialed up to 11 girl. This is really. Yeah. That's being generous. I think she's a very high ponytail and an interesting scrunchie. I don't know what's happening there. Right. Which is totally like fine. Do your thing, girl. But I think she's like 60 in this in this video. Is there a little scrunchie here? Rocket, if you got it, I guess, I guess. So Willie says, you know, after you leave, you really try to bury that part of your life and that you really have to compartmentalize and you break into multiple versions of yourself, which I thought was really interesting. Culling's like, I have at least four alter egos. I'm like, girl, I want to meet all of them. I want to meet all of them and have a glass of wine with each of them. One is Fiona Apple. Ask. Yes. One is like Brianna. Yes. Yeah. We were Amy believes Brianna is going to break out. Robin star Brianna, she is going to break out. I think that the other kids are too brainwashed and locked in. But she's always like off to the corner, kind of scribble it. Well, in my mind, scribbling in a diary, angry playing guitar. The thing about that family, I love that side of her family. They're funny, but they are spicy. Preston's or Brianna's dad's side of the family. There's a lot of spice going on there, especially. Yeah, great sense of humor. Very funny, very great sense of humor. Good people, but they don't take a lot of shit. And so so she has it in her is what you're saying. It's a possibility. Yes. So I think that would be a very good possibility. And I hope you maybe. But I think she'll just do it more in a in a in Robin's face, where her oldest Aurora, I think she will, too. But to some degree, she does it in more of a gosh, maybe not so subtle, not not more of a subtle way to not hurt Robin. But she'll still be like, oh, my mom said that, but I don't really have to listen to it. Oh, I'd be here for that. I'd be here for a lot of that. That's what I can see her oldest doing or her oldest daughter. But then Brianna is like, yeah, no, sorry. Yeah. What do you mean? She is 20, like 24 now. I guess she can probably make her own choices. Yeah. Right. No, I the first time I told my dad, no, I was 26. Wow. Okay. No, okay. Colleen talks about how her community is really based off incest. Like you said, Melanie, that's a big problem in the King's sins. And she married her second cousin. And that was like a relief because there was talk of her marrying her first cousin. And she knows a lot of people who are married to their their first cousins. Yeah. So the anti-polygum esteem, as I'm going to call them, they're aligning on their goals for this debate, whatever panel, whatever it is. And they just basically want to tell their stories so they can help save others. And Kristen says, speaking out isn't about hate. I just want to help other people. Willie says, most people don't even understand the toll that it takes to express your story. So even doing this is a really big deal for him. And you can tell, like this poor kid is barely a lot of trauma to unpack. Yeah. A lot of work to do on himself. And I, I hope it's okay. Well, honestly, we do think it's hard on the girls. I think you get these tender hearted men that it's really hard on them too. And I think it's a lot harder than we give these men credit for. Yeah. I, I mean, I know a lot of men, good men in the world, the tender hearted men who are almost hurt more by women being hurt than, than women or by other women being hurt. Like you just can't, can't put up with that. And I see that in Willie of like this, this pain of everything he had to see. So Cody says, they know bad things happen and that folks have had their bad experiences and he wants to validate those. But he also does not want them to be painted as a broad brush because they're doing great. Their culture in their culture, good experiences. I'm not even going to begin to touch what they've done with this metaphor in this. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. They get it wrong a lot, but I'll just skip over that. Yes. Yeah. Don't go too hard into their grammar in the way that they use metaphors. Like, do you guys watch Secret Lives of Mormon wives? Are you watching that or following that? Like the grammar we can't even, I'm just like, okay. Yeah. Okay. It is. Yeah. We're not, I'm not a grammarian, but it's just so egregious. Yeah. We are always correcting ourselves too. Yeah. Yeah. Learning updating our language. So as you learn, yeah. Oh, the inability. Oh, Amy, if you do listen to the call her daddy interview with Jesse, the use of resonate will make you want to lose your mind. So called out for that. Yeah. It's one of Amy's biggest pet peeves. But then Amy can't say simple words ever. So like we all have our things. Like I'll be like, why are they using resonate wrong? And then like, I can't say a very like aluminum. I can't say it or something. Aluminum and shoulder have been issues for me my whole life. Love it. So, okay. Mary Cody, not nervous, Robin, very nervous. And he says they're trying to escape all of the stereotypes, but people keep putting them back on them. And Robin tells Cody that people are saying he's a misogynist pig. And he's like, well, I could agree with that. I probably am. That's not going to age well. Okay. Christine on the couch says people are angry because of what they see. And that's what makes Christine angry too. Like they see the war in Jeff's and all of that. Sure. Christine's like, I hate that too. Like I'm not down for child brides and child molestation and all of that. And that's the thing that upsets her. But she's like, that's not the polygamy that we live. And that's what I want them to know. So now it's panel time. People come in, they have to be in separate rooms because Christine's having a absolute breakdown here. But this is what I'm talking about. There's no structure to this panel. He's not like asking questions and moderating. No. Where is he? Yeah. Right. He introduces them and that's it. He doesn't like to teach. We know that. From the hand before two, two. When we get to the panel thing, you were just talking about the front entry way where they're all standing in the front entry way and they're going over this thing. Did you see how Christine came around the corner and looked at Robin and said, Oh, you look cute. Yeah. And Robin was looking at her phone and she looks up at her and she goes. Oh, yeah. And gets back on her phone. How did I miss that? I live for these subtleties. I'll take that. We had to rewind it four times. So I'm like, did you see that? I missed it too. Did you see that? These are the things that I grew up paying attention to my entire life because I've always been an energy, like I can read energy very, very quickly. And so, and Christine just stood there like, Oh, you know, and so I feel like that is one of the massive girl games that Robin plays, especially with Christine, because I think she felt most threatened by Christine because Christine was such a good time to be like Cody just enjoyed being around her. Yeah. Each wife presented a different threat, but Christine, I think was the main threat, right? Because the children loved her. What? I mean, there's a million reasons. So every chance she gets to shut Christine down, especially before they go in public and they're going on a panel, she's going to take every opportunity that she can to shut her down. So that's just one of the girl games. I wanted to point out the very good boy. That's good. I like very good catch. And you're right. Chris, Robin is most threatened by Christine as a mother because Robin thought she was going to come in and be like this, you know, maternal hero. And Christine already has that place. Yep. So Robin does everything she can, including making fun of her. Mock tapioca pudding to try to tear her down. Yep. Oh my God, it infuriated me because it was just subtle. It was two seconds on the edit. It was, it was literally just boom, boom. It's, it's around the 26 minute mark, I think is when it was, but yeah. Okay. We'll have to go back and watch that. So Robin thinks that this is just a lot of drama between the two groups. And it's, it's just going to be a conversation, but well, we have been so persecuted and that we've been dealing with this our whole lives. And Cody's like, yes, I've been dealing with him my whole life. No, you haven't. You didn't join the AUB till you were 20. Shut up. I know I laughed at that. Yeah. Cody says he's been shunned by family members until it was clear that he wasn't a pervert. So a lot of things I say about Cody Brown, a pervert is not. And this is where I have a lot of problems with current day Cody, who we know disowned his child because they are trans. And yeah, here's Cody on television being like, people should be allowed to love who they want and be who they are. And I'm like, oh, make it make sense. It drives me crazy. It's so double standard is so I mean, that what he says is good for everyone out there. It's not really what he brings into his own family. Again, why most of us didn't watch it because we knew it wasn't real. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Christine still stressed out. She's like, I don't know why he has to do that, but I also know why we do. We just don't want Warren Jeffs to be the face of polygamy. So now we have that bathroom doing it. Yeah. Now we have the bathroom scene about her looks. Good Lord. Yeah, we have the bathroom scene here. So Christine's hiding in the bathroom. Christy or Kristen's outside. Like, I don't know what the big deal is. We got Mary and Robert or she's now get married and Robin come in to like bring Christine out like, does she think that Chris? Okay. Question. Rowing eggs at her question. Amy, we'll go around and get everybody's take on this. You're in a situation like this and you need somebody to come and protect you, get you out of it, extract you from the situation. Choose your fighter. Is it Mary? Is it Robin or is it Janelle? Honestly, I probably would choose Mary because Mary is just. Same. Same. Mary's tough. Mary would come in there, kick some asses around and pull me out. And I would be okay. And she, where Robin does it in such a way that it's just shut up, you know, anyone could just put their hand up and tell her to shut up where Mary's like, you want to talk to me? Let's go. And so that's why I would pick Mary way over, but also in an, I know I heard in an interview that the producers were in the bathroom saying, Kristen's out there. She wants to confront you. And so they were really hyping Christine up for this situation. It was very, that's what I'm saying. It was very, from my understanding, very producer induced. It wasn't necessarily a real scenario, if that makes sense. And I wonder if Kristen knew that they were ginning it up for Christine, because Kristen's like, what is this junior high drama here? Like, I don't understand why we're freaking out here. That would make a lot more sense if she wasn't aware that the producers are saying to Christine, your aunt is about to like beat the shit out of you in about two seconds, if you don't. Right. Right. Well, and then at the end, she says, you guys want to go to dinner. So she was obviously very unaware of the level of drama or trauma that Christine was enduring. She had no idea. Yeah. Christine's like, uh, no, thanks. I don't think I'm going to sit that one out. Yeah. Little Miss Recap will return in a moment for ad free episodes. Visit littlemissrecap.com slash support. With NatWest Premiere, you have financial experts in your corner, as well as everyday support on the phone 24 seven. We could help you grow and protect your family's wealth with tailored advice from our expert financial planners, plus all investments are managed by Coots. Now for the really important decisions, more slopes or the sauna. You can with Premiere NatWest Premiere tomorrow begins today. UK residents 18 plus Premiere eligibility criteria apply specific eligibility and fees apply for financial planning. Your capital is at risk. Hello, you. It's glow time on magic radio. Join me. Got one at breakfast with me. Harriet Scott. We're on magic radio with Nikki Chapman, Gabby Roslyn and me, Mel Gedroich. And what we are. We're all on magic radio playing the best variety from the 80s to now. It's glow time on magic radio. So we see the Browns, they pray before they're going out. They want to be kind and accurate about their life. Everyone shuffles in. Janelle says she feels like she's walking into her execution. Janelle, calm down. Calm down. It's a college panel, Janelle. Right. In like a small lecture room. I think you're going to be OK. Yeah. This is like a Keith Ranieri size room. There's 30 people. Right. Mary tells her story. Her mother was introduced to polygamy. We're big fans of grandma Bonnie around here. We love her. And this is when Mary was a baby. She was the one who felt called a polygamy. So she brought their family into it. Janelle, Janelle at this point, glossing right over the real story here. I grew up LDS and then I was introduced to Mary's family. You mean you were boning Mary's brother? Like, let's be real about what's happening here. Mary's brother saw you naked. Right. Yes. Mary's brother and Mary's husband's P has been in your V girl. So stop. Stop it. So true. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, and the Mary's family was there. Her token polygamous friends. That was exciting. Christine was born with two moms. And she's what she didn't know is that she was raised in fear because that they were told that if people find out their parents would go to prison, which says to me, Christine, you did know you were raised in fear because if you're afraid to your father, I was never afraid my father was going to go to prison. Afraid of other things, but I was not afraid of my father. Robin, she met the Browns and she just fell in love with them. Shut up. Only next. Cody says his experience has been a challenge, but also a blessing to marry these women that he loves. Wait a minute, Cody. I thought you hated them all. I hope that down too. The problem, Cody, with you going around season 19 telling all the world how much you hate the mother of all of your children is we have years of footage of you saying how much you love these women. Pick a lane. Willie says his experience was hell. And when one mother was jealous of another, they'd take it out on the children and his father was never around. And when he was around, he was very abusive. Christine Marie says she thought she was the first wife that her husband had a revelation and then another woman comes in and then that woman becomes the first wife. Yeah, I want all of Christine Marie. The Browns to follow when they could have been following this woman. Well, maybe I'm so curious about it myself. I was stunned. Yeah, it is bizarre. Colleen wants us to know sister wives all hate each other and that the mothers will abuse everyone. Well, I think what she was saying, though, and this is a good point. She's like, the sister wives all get jealous of each other and take it out on the kids and the kids know this. Yes. 100%. Yeah. We have said this. It's called corruption of blood. Yep. We have said this one since day one on our channel. Children are the collateral damage in this, in this religion. And I don't give a shit who you are. The Browns did it too. And we saw it. We have already seen it from just watching season one. We're on season four, episode four right now, but I have seen it a dozen times. And we've both seen it where we're like, oh, they cut that. They edited that right out. And we can almost see in our mind, like where that conversation finished. I mean, you can see it when Robin jumps off, choose a religion when you're an adult or, you know, whatever yelling at the children. I would have bitch slapped her. I would have come off that tape off that couch and beat her. But you see it with the Browns. If you know what, if you were a child who experienced that, then you can see it. And we see it all the time with the Browns. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And it was, but it was verbally setting them in line. By each mother could verbally set the other mother's children in line if needed to be. Right. Like the, like the amount of slut shaming they do with McKelty, because she wants to wear a tank top. She wants to wear like a long sleeve crop top. And they're like, we can see your stomach. Yeah. Yeah. And that shame we grew up with that, that really is there. They're wanting to mold you into a version of a person that is obedient and goes to the temple and it follows all of the rules. And so they're going to shame you just like they were shamed in their life to obey those rules. So if you're get your shirt a little too loud, they're going to shame you and give you all the reasons why you shouldn't. Right. So the amount of focusing that we do on McKelty's body makes me so uncomfortable in the show. Yeah. We, we did talk to McKelty about that. We did an interview with her. We did talk to her about that. I was stunned. Well, I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't because I experienced it too. So yeah. They all grew up with it. Yeah. But no, Colleen, what Colleen is saying there is a hundred percent true and it's true with the Brown family too. I think the producers just edited it to make it look that it wasn't as much that way. But they, but it is the Browns had an ally in Tim Gibbons and it's very clear when that alliance. Yeah. He really loved Cody. And then when he left the show, it, we got to see a different view of Cody, which I'm sure is the same view that they'd seen all along. We just edited a different story. Exactly. We're seeing now. Um, at Kristen talks about when her husband began courting others that her heart was broken, watching her husband go away on his honeymoon. Oh, Christine, I imagine you had that experience too. And Robin went on her 11 day honeymoon. And she said she was suicidal when her husband actually married someone else. So Christine's like, I'm going to have to break the ice here because this is real weird and I don't even know how to start talking. So finally she's like, Aunt Kristen, I love you. I just don't know what to do with you. And everyone laughs. And so the ice has been broken. So now we, now we can just start punching at each other. It's basically what happens at this point. And Christine's like, look, I remember you and I remember your husband and he wasn't a nice man. Like that's the problem. Polygamy wasn't the problem. Your husband was an asshole. That was the problem. Okay. Yeah, go ahead. Her husband was Joe Darger's uncle. Oh, oh, oh, okay. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Okay. I would love a family tree of this whole situation. I like a murder board where I can find out how everyone is related to each other. Robin, sorry, my curiosity is, or where I think that she has been so frustrated with her aunt in this is because the way we grew up, we knew that we as the AUB were living the right way, living polygamy. And all of these other groups were living it poorly. This is what we were taught. Sure. And so, yes, there's somebody on the panel from the FLDS. We know they're living it the wrong way. There's somebody on the panel from Kingston. We know that they're living it the wrong way. Basically what Chris, her aunt is doing is saying, hey, I'm from the AUB and we're living in the wrong way. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. It's an attack on them that, no, we're not. We're living it different. Well, wait a minute. The Kingston's married 14 years old. We don't do that. Yes, we do. And you all know on that panel that somebody up there, you know, somebody that has been married at 14, 15, 16, 17. So there's guys that are destructive to their wives and their children. And you know somebody within that community and yet you try to play like you don't. And so I think she's attacking. Kristen here, because she's basically on the panel saying we're just like all of them. Well, Kristen was born into the AUB and raised into the AUB and then she married what we would consider an independent Joe Darger's and independent. The Darger family is going to ask you about that. Yeah. So the Darger families are independent. So Kristen was not married in the AUB. She was married as an independent and then lived her, her life as an independent. And then yeah, the family tree branches. I mean, her, her son is married to Mitch's aunt and her, you know, it's like, yeah, it's just all over the place. So yeah, we say it's a wreath all the time. It's not a tree. Everyone's just circling back around. So Robin now tries to talk to Kristen and says she only knows one person who left who didn't have a bad experience. Just one, just one. OK. And Robin's like, sure, but you have to realize that. And I know for a fact that who you marry makes a huge difference. OK, Robin, saying something revolutionary. I don't care if you're monogamy or polygamy, who you marry makes a difference in the quality of your marriage. You know, he says that all the time. Oh, of course. The most important decision you're going to make is who you marry. Yes. Does that all the time? And now she fakes cries about her sisters and her mother talking about working out stuff with their sister lives. I think so. I hate her. I would like to see an actual real to your mother. That's a great system. Mother does not work shit out with her sister. Oh, if you ask Robin, her mother is the model. Stained. Of a sister wife. No. Meanwhile, you know that her mother was like feeding her how to get in and get in with Cody and how to subvert everyone else. Very clear, very clear. Well, if you listen to Cody, he did a live and he attacks the other sister wife. So basically says she's the tyrant within the within the family. Robin's other mother. OK. Oh, OK. He's like, oh, sorry, I shouldn't say that. You can edit that out. Right. This is like. This is like. But yeah. Yeah. OK. Go ahead. No, this time out. Oh, my God. Interesting. Yeah. But Christine does the same thing. Christine really like idealizes her childhood. Like she's like she thinks her childhood was so fantastic. Remember, Amanda, she was talking about it even at her wedding when she was talking to her about her father. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She really just talks like she lived in this like gilded cage and, you know, there was no. So I wonder, is that just Christine romanticizing it or did she have a decent. Yeah, variance. We did a book club on her book and we really died into a lot of that kind of stuff. In fact, we just went to her childhood home a couple of weeks ago, my mom and I, because I grew up there too. So I grew up with their family in the summers and Christine's dad was one of the best men I've ever known. Ever. Oh, I think that was an incredible man. And he was still a man and he still screwed up, plaguing me a lot. And, you know, and she did grow up in a little utopia. She really did. Yeah. The ranch or the compound that they had was amazing. I felt safe there growing up. And, you know, and I grew up there during the summers was babysat there. So yeah, she really did have a fairly. Okay. Utopian childhood, but she romanticized a lot of it too. Yeah. I mean, I had a, I don't know, a decent childhood, I guess we grew up. I could say it was amazing. We grew up on a farm. We raised our own food. We had lots of brothers and sisters, all of that stuff. But. I also had 10 the mother's guns on each other and they beat each other and they got each other. So and that's the thing. Like you're looking at this through the eyes of a child. Like you don't know how these women are suffering. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Amanda, take us to our favorite part with Robin audience questions. We're getting there. So the first one is about fatherhood. Someone asks Cody how many kids he has at that point. He had 17 and she says, do you feel like you're emotionally active in all of your kids lives as best you can be? And he's like, yes, I am as active as anyone I know monogamous or plural. Because little kids, because little kids are easy to raise like little kids. You can check in with them, you know, roll around on the ground a little bit with with Hunter when he's five years old and he's fine. But like when they become teenagers and their needs are complex, you can't meet their needs. No, no, you can't. And the best father is they ask the question wrong. They said, Hey, Cody, do you feel like that you're engaged with your kids? Right. Should have asked it. Do you feel like your kids are in your kids? Like you're engaged. Yeah. So because I guarantee there were some kids that were like Janelle that like, yeah, we see them every four days and that's fine. Yeah. I mean, I think it was Isabelle like last episode was like, we never see daddy. Like he never, we can't see him. No, that's because he's always over at Robbins. Just look across the street and see your dad. Head bang. The door's locked. Doors locked. Doors locked. Christine Marie says the culture is filled with unhappiness, poverty, poor education and Cody's like, I mean, there's. Abuse and monogamy as well. You can't pay this hall. Okay, Janelle. Yeah. Kristen says the abuse is a huge in polygamous societies and Cody again is like, you can't paint us with a broad brush, blah, blah, blah. And Cody says he doesn't recommend polygamy for everyone. He just wants permission to do it. Dude. So you want people to stay out of your love life? Really? Colleen says, look, we haven't directed anything that you got. Like you, you five people seem fine. We're more concerned about the system than just what the five of you are doing, which I feel like the Browns can't get out of. They feel like this is all about them and everyone else is like, no, it's the system that's the problem. You guys appear to be an anomaly at this point to what our experiences with everyone else. Meanwhile, all four of those women are sitting up there, unfulfilled, the miserable, all three of those women. All three of those women. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And Robin's like, well, does the world know that you're not attacking us? Robin, the world doesn't pay that much attention to you. No one cares about you. No, except for Cody. Three people are watching this. Right. Christine. Kristen is like, look, I have the right to say how I feel as much as Robin does. And now an audience member says, I can see in Cody's voice and how the women all look at him for permission. Do the wives have the means financially to escape if they needed to? Or do they need permission? And Janelle's like, look, I am the only one up here with a job and my own money. So leave me alone. And I don't even share my money with Cody because she's a smart woman. Mary says, I look at Cody because I want to hear what he has to say because I married him and because I love him. Mary, are you really that interested in what Cody has to say? Really? Really? No, it's because that's how we were trained. I'm sure. I am sure. Christine says she understands the concern based on the stereotypes and like Cody says, he has said to his wives, look, if you're not happy, I will help you leave. Again, Cody put a pin in that. Let's see how you do when Christine decides she wants to. Nope. So now things are getting heated and passionate according to Cody. And he knows it was ridiculous, but he was frustrated. Now Robin says it went off the rails. At no point do I feel like this went off the rails, Robin. No, dude. No. Christine Marie says that they didn't get to sleep with Cody nightly. And Mary's like, do you realize what a fucking blessing that is that I'll have to sleep with this guy every night? Well, she's probably not wrong. She's probably not wrong. I mean, look, I'm a happily married, monogamously married woman. And I'm not sad when my husband goes out of town because I get the bed to myself. It's not so bad. And Robin asks Mary if it offends her when people ask if she's OK with her husband cheating on her and Mary's like, I don't care. I know what the truth is. I don't think he's cheating on me. I'm good. Janelle says that her beliefs allow her to pick her husband regardless of his marital status. And she can choose what worked for her and the FLDS is not a monolith. And again, Marie, Christine Marie is like, you guys are a good example, but that doesn't mean we'd recommend it. And she has some weird analogy about drunk driving. And I don't know what she's talking about. I know, I can't. So now the professor tells us that of the polygamous marriages, he knows 30% are happy, 35% are like making it work, but it's a mess. And 35% are miserable, which isn't all that different from monogamous relationships that he studied. Well, and he said 30% are satisfactory. I don't know if you're happy. Oh, so he said satisfactory. OK. But again, this they do this all the time. And Janelle does this to it drives me crazy. Is this conflating like typical monogamous marital woes with unhappiness and polygamy where people are being oppressed and married too young and sexually assaulted, like they're very different things. Yes, those things happen in monogamy too, but like they're not the same. They're just not the same. They're absolutely not. I could not tell you that I had a moment of joy in my previous marriage. It for 10 years, I was married to that man. And I can't tell you that I didn't even know the religious marriage. Yeah. And my religious marriage in my polygamous marriage, I did not even know that you could be have actual joy in a marriage. I had no idea. Until we got married and 99 I would say 95 percent of our marriage is very joyful, very like it's not just satisfactory. It's and I'll speak for myself. It's because we I did not have. Go ahead. No, I didn't have a role model of what the marriage looked like. Sure. Right. It was marriage counseling. It was doing taking classes, asking, watching people who had healthy relationships. After in my adult life, yeah, that I went, this is what I want. This is what I want to create because I never sought within the leadership, within my parents, a healthy marriage relationship. So there was no communication. There was no we missed a whole lot of what marriage was supposed to look like growing up. Yeah. And you wonder too, like, how are they coming up with these numbers? Right? Or is this self reporting? Are people self reporting and then do they feel like they're safe to report? Whether they're satisfactory in their marriage or not. He said in all the relationships he's dealt with, he's probably dealt with 10. And yeah, yeah, three of them were satisfied. Three of them were serious issues. You know, yeah. So that's what that was my guess is that his pool of contestants, if you will. Is very limited. Yeah, Browns are probably one of the first ones to come out. I think that I don't know. I don't know how many other polygamous families have come out. Usually they were hidden within society and they weren't self reporting. We weren't encouraged to have therapists come in from outside that could help with the the children being raised, the parents. There was no such thing as marriage counselors within our other than other men and women that were living it the same way and had the same problems. So yeah. That makes sense. Now we're going to get to your favorite part of the whole episode. Amy, Kristen asks Mary and Robin and that they said that they would not live this if this was not their belief. And now Robin says, do not twist my words. I said, if I woke up and I was unhappy and I would leave. That's exactly what she just said, Robin. So I don't know what you're talking about here. We're about to see the real Robin. Uh-huh. To which which is basically what Kristen said. And Robin has the flash of don't make me a victim, sweetie. Wow. Calm down, girl. Calm down. No one's making you a victim. So aggressive. I was like, oh, there she is. So aggressive. And yeah, same thing. I was like, there she is. Uh-huh. Christine Marie asks Cody if his motive was to live his religion. And he's like, yes. And I do it all again, though, even without my religion, because I love these women and my children, except the ones I'm going to ignore, forget about alienate, throw out of my family and say on national television, I hate their mothers. Exactly. Right now I like them in 10 years. Screw them all. I like them because they are young enough that a lot of them still worship me. But once, once the veil has dropped, forget it. We're, unfortunately, you're going to see that a lot and a lot of polygamous families without going into terribly long detail. Cause I know we're running late, but you see that a lot as soon as the children start to have their own opinions and they, and they lose that level of worship for the father, he loses the level of interest in them. Yeah. Makes sense. Once the obedience is gone, no longer listening to him, then his interest in them is gone too. Yeah. And sadly, we saw that happen. Um, Christine thinks overall it was terrible. It was awful. Mary's disappointed that it turned into a debate. She hoped it would have been more of a discussion. Aspen's like, I don't think it went well because the others wouldn't see their side, but Robin also, I mean, Aspen also understands that they just know their experience. Meanwhile, Logan jumps up to hug and Kristen. I know. I don't know that. So excited to see her. Robin says she got frustrated because she knew the truth would not be told there. Christine, as we said, offers to have, or Kristen asked to have dinner with Christine and Chrissy's like, no, I'm terrified of you. Not doing that. Cody says it's sad because they didn't reach over the fence and align on how to help the community. And our good friend, professor, however we say his name says that the families that work are economically well off. Makes sense. The husband manages his affection well, which is where Cody's starting to fall apart right now. And favorites aren't obvious. And that most importantly, that the sister wives need to become friends. And he learned that from the Browns. Well, sir, they all hate each other. They hate each other. I don't know what you're talking about. And Mary says they knew that Christine was uncomfortable and they need to agree that there was no way to prevent it. Robin says that they need more good stories. And Cody thinks he melted down and Robin says, no, you just stood up for your beliefs when they're under attack. Poor boo boo. I'm so proud. Did you see Cody looking at her when she was in her? Oh yeah, he's all boned up over there. He was boned up. And that's where we leave the episode. Next time on, we get Leon and the Westminster College situation. We see Cody design the terrible jewelry that breaks Christine's heart. And now we're getting ready for the Sedona marriage retreat, which is just chef's kiss and waiting to get here. Yeah, we haven't seen it. I know. We got to watch that because I got an iconic episode or two. So it's super. Because most people within the AUB group would never go to something like that. Yeah, no, go to a therapist. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of the AUB. Yeah. So I'm curious. We're curious to watch that one too. And I want to point out one more girl game. Yes, when Robin did say that, no, you didn't melt down. No, I was very proud of you. She made sure she did that in front of the other wives. So this is where we're going to go. In front of the other wives. So this is where we will watch the episode. We've rewind and watch the other wives faces when Robin speaking. I don't really get a crap what Robin looks like, but I do care what the other wives are looking like. And a lot of times you'll see the producers will scan away from the other wives because they don't want to show their faces. That was such a girl game because what she did was she established that. Favoritism connection with Cody in front of the other women. And so if she's not going to be allowed to be physically affectionate with him, then she's going to be emotionally and intimately connected with him in front of them. So that makes total sense. It's true. Yeah. So I see a lot of those types of games too. And yes, she probably told Cody that off camera, whatever, in a heat of passion, some place on top of a car. But that is one of the things that I feel like she does to gain control over these other women. I think she I think so. Are you guys? Yeah, they saw the surrogacy manipulation offer, correct? Oh, my God. So that was just to get a leg up on those other women like Christina Janelle never offered your wombs. Then you know what I mean? Like and then Cody pressuring Mary was all about I want to put a baby in Robin. So I need to know like if her womb is going to be occupied available. And Mary very smartly kicked the can down the road, kicked the can down the road and kept that going. Mm hmm. Right. Mary's no dummy. Yeah. She had him interested in her for a while while that was happening. I've never heard of the surrogacy thing ever happening. I've heard of it one single time and the woman did not know she was being a surrogate. The baby was stolen from her after the baby was born and it was given to another wife who was then immediately moved into another state so that that mother could never get the baby back. Jesus. Oh my God. Yeah. This is a really dark culture. It very there's a lot of abuse and a lot and the Browns did no service to humanity by by making it look otherwise. So I want to over the course of 20, 20 seasons. People are seeing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it might not be what they thought it was at the beginning. The other thing that I wanted to bring up that I put down here is Cody's line because one of the wives brought it up. Well, Cody's line that he's going to take care of a life if she leaves and and do that. That is a pickup line for new wives. That is nothing that he is ever going to perform on later on down in life. OK, OK. He's in dating mode when he's saying that when he's telling these wives that if you ever want to leave, I will buy you the house. I want the kids around. That's a pickup line. That's a dating line. Interesting. They all use. Oh, interesting. Never fulfill. Yeah. In the end to get the women to come in and Cody's not dating anymore. So he's not using that line anymore. So interesting. So I wanted to just close with your final thoughts on something. One of the theories that Amanda and I have talked about a lot is we think that number one, there was too large of a time gap between wives when he brought Robin in. So that kind of set it all up for failure. But another thing is if you watch their relationship, we believe that he that their dynamic operates more like he brings in a mistress rather than another wife because there's so much secrecy. You know, I picked the dress kissing her outside, trying to get outside the cameras. Like there's just so much secrecy. Is this something that happens a lot? Like, do you guys see that difference in how he's bringing in Robin and interacting with her as opposed to how this usually goes? Or is that how it usually goes? No, I think that is Robin based. I think that is woman based because Robin's the one who told him to keep that a secret. And he wasn't used to doing that. He was used to being able to, Hey, this is a democracy. We're all talking about things. We're all making decisions. Yes. He kept confidences in each relationship. That you have to do that. But that was a Robin based thing. That's how Robin gains control over the family is she has secrets with Cody that none of the other wives have. And so she created that as a, that's a very good God. This woman is the epitome of girl games. Let me create something that he can't share with everyone else. And it's just between us. And then there's this secret that we have and he's not used to that. So what does he do? We blabbered it out on national television and devastates the other wives because of that. And she was like, why told him not to tell you that? And so now she's going to slap his ass back into shape real quick behind cameras. Yeah. This is, this has to be a confidence between you and I, and this is how she manipulates and controls him into doing things. There was a big huge time gap. Yes, we've seen that in other relationships. And that is hard to do, especially when you bring in a wife of childbearing age. Yeah. And the other wives are not because in the religion, we are taught that you are not supposed to have intimacy with a wife unless you're getting. Now, not everybody follows that. And that's fine if they don't use the teaching, it's just a teaching that you're not, that you're not the only time you have sex is to have a baby. Right. The only time you have sex is after a full body massage as well. I joke about that all the time on our channel. I'm like, Robin wants to know why Christine stopped being Cody's fluffer. Oh, yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So you might have to edit that out. But yeah, so that that is really hard when there are childbearing wives that are coming in now. It's not as difficult if it's just, Hey, I need a husband to be sealed to because I'm a woman. I can't get myself into heaven on my own. Let me go get sealed to this man. That's a whole different story, but childbearing age. That's and then Robin needed something that belonged to her and her only with Cody. Let's create secrets. Makes total sense. Makes total sense. Well, guys, go ahead. The original three wives had agreed with him. They were trying to live in one house under one roof. Right. In this utopia that the AUB tries to promote, promote forward and she came in and was living in a separation, separation, separation. She did. Yeah. Saying she wants to be a part of it and have this thing. But the way things set up now, they separate go to Vegas. They separate into houses. All of a sudden, the other wives are like, we like this. We don't like living under the same roof with each other. And so all of a sudden they're given freedoms that they have not been given for the first portion of their marriage. Yeah. And so they're enjoying those. And so then that's why when Cody's like, we got to get that one house back together. Most of them are like, yeah, that ain't happening. And I suspect Robin did not want that either, but she knew Christine would say no, so she just said, yeah, she didn't have to be the bad guy. Mm hmm. Yep. She was supporting Cody. It was never going to happen. Yep. It's really easy to say yes to something that you don't want when you know it will never happen. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. To be the supportive life, to be that. I'm the good life. I know this will never happen. I'm so proud of you for making these decisions. Too bad Christine doesn't agree with you. There you go. That bitch. Yeah. All right. Well, we have said it all. We certainly have. Thank you guys so much. Yeah, this has been so much fun. I hope that, you know, I would love to have you guys back and for us to just be able to pepper you a question. Absolutely. Anytime. I just, you have such interesting perspectives and, you know, I just love, I love your channel. I love what you're doing. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing your stories and your experience with us. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for coming. Thank you. All right. Will you tell everybody where to find you in case they don't know? Yeah, absolutely. We are notes to self 444 across all the platforms run. We do a little bit more daily updates on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube. YouTube is where we do our primary content on notes to self 444. All right. And that's where people can find you guys doing the recaps of older episodes. Is it on YouTube? Okay. Yeah. So on YouTube, we do a lot of, yeah, we, it's funny. We get some complaints because people will say, I, I can't watch a 30 minute video on a 15 minute episode, but that we just have so much to say about explaining what our, again, we always say this, this is our interpretation of what, of what we experienced. And we did grow up to totally different ways, compound kids, city kid, but our experiences are very similar. So yeah. Yeah. Well, we appreciate you. Yeah. Thank you. Amanda, thank you for taking notes. Amy, thank you. And we'll see you guys later. Take it.