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It's time to turn those what ifs into... With Shopify Today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com. Go to Shopify.com. That's Shopify.com. Hey friends. Welcome to the Raising Boys and Girls podcast. I'm Sissy Goff. And I'm David Thomas. And we're so glad you've joined us for this conversation. Let's dive in. Okay, we're here to talk about the middle school years. I almost feel like I should go... Dun dun dun. Dun dun. We'll soundtrack to this. I always think you need that same thing. Episode. Yes. Middle school parents hang in there. They're doing great. And I think these are some of the most overlooked years for building capability. So it's an important time for us to talk about what these amazing kiddos need. And, you know, we've talked a lot about how capability only grows through practice. And so if there is one stage where kids quietly stop practicing its middle school, and this is such a tricky in-between space, they're not little kids anymore, but they're not yet fully stepping into their adolescence yet. And so because of that, it's really easy for parents to step in too quickly, overlook what's happening socially, or assume this is just a phase. But what we're seeing more than ever is that this stage is actually really foundational. Because what doesn't get built here gets much harder to build later. Yes. So let's talk about some things that we're seeing with kids the first, and you all likely have heard us say this, but we need to talk about it particularly as it pertains to the middle school years is social disconnection. It's one of the biggest shifts we're seeing in kids in the last five years. And what we're seeing specifically in middle schoolers is that they're not spending time together. The way that they used to, the way that we did when we were growing up, they're not reaching out. They're not initiating plans. They're not practicing friendships in real life. And even if they are, it's only with their one really set group. They're not reaching out. They're not expanding. And particularly with girls again, so much of their friendships are happening passively, digitally, or not at all outside of school. And what research is telling us right now in terms of that is studies from organizations like Common Sense Media. We know this, show that pre-teens spend five to six or more hours per day on screens. Wow. Not doing academics. And much of that is replacing in-person interaction, which you all, we know this, but developmentally, screen interaction is not helpful. It is not moving them forward in their growth, in their brain development. Developmental research shows that face-to-face interaction is critical for building empathy, hate resolution, and identity in early adolescence. And here's what's so important. Friendship is a skill. Yes. And if kids aren't practicing initiating, repairing, navigating awkwardness, they don't just pick up on it later. And that's what they're at least willing to do is navigate awkwardness. Absolutely. And y'all, we've got to lean in in those places. So let's talk about where a lot of that awkwardness socially can be birthed when it comes to boys. We're going to talk about screens. With boys, we're seeing something slightly different, but just as concerning. Screens have become the primary place they go, the primary way they connect, and often the primary way they avoid gaming, YouTube, scrolling. I read a stat the other day that 96% of teen boys are on YouTube. There's so much consumption happening in that space. And you've heard me say before, and I would say again, if overwhelming concern about the voices boys are engaging there, we now have a whole conversation around that at some point. And it creates a world where there's constant stimulation, but very little required of them. And dopamine driven platforms are linked to reduce motivation for effort based tasks in adolescence. Games especially are more likely to default to parallel play online instead of actual relational engagement. And we know that capability requires effort, frustration, working through that frustration and problem solving and screens remove almost every one of those things. So let's think about what we have called this season for years are the narcissistic years. We talked about it actually in our book forever ago called Raising Girls. And I will never forget, it was one of my favorite stories ever, David and Melissa and I were doing a parenting seminar and we had just talked about this very idea that they are in this narcissistic phase of life where they're thinking about themselves continually and they actually have to to become their own people. And Melissa walked by this woman on the phone and she waved her big at Melissa. Melissa waved back and she said, I'm talking to my husband about our son. And Melissa said, great. And she said, he's narcissistic and it's normal. Melissa just doubled overlapping. But if that helps you give a sigh of relief, it is true. I think about how many years you've been teaching on girl development. You talk about this season as the narcissistic years and parents often are cheering. They feel so sane in that moment. Yes. And while middle schoolers are developmentally wired to be incredibly self-focused, we were too, truth be told, when we were there. They're asking, how do I look? Where do I fit? What do people think of me? And it's not them being selfish. Okay, sometimes it is, but not largely them being selfish. It's actually part of identity formation, which is what they're supposed to be doing in this window of development. They have to think about themselves to become themselves. And what research would say is that early adolescence is marked by increased self-consciousness and imaginary audience thinking, which was created originally in the 60s by a psychologist named David Elkin. And he coined this phrase, an imaginary audience, and that middle schoolers walk through life feeling like there's this throng of people watching everything that they do and causing even more of the self-consciousness that permeates these years. And you all, I think what's so hard to be a middle schooler in today's day and time is I could say back then, there's not really people watching me. Well, thanks to social media today, they are watching them. And so I think it makes the self-consciousness and the awareness, hyper-awareness of themselves even more pronounced. So we're heading out on a book tour, multiple cities over two weeks, and honestly, we should have asked Quints to sponsor the entire tour because I will absolutely be wearing my Quint short-sleeved cashmere polos at several stops. Yes, short-sleeved cashmere year-round. I didn't know that was possible, but I'm here to share that good news with you. You are here to help folks out. Listen, when you find something that fits perfectly and feels elevated, you lean in. Quints uses premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and European linen but without the markup. And when we're spreading through airports trying to remember what city we're in next, I'm living in my Quint super soft performance t-shirts. I have them in multiple colors because they're that good. Lightweight, breathable, polished enough to layer, comfortable enough for cross-country travel. 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That is exactly where it gets so tricky because if everything in their world reinforces that self focus, social media, comparison, performance, culture, they can get so stuck there and capability doesn't grow inward. It grows when kids begin to move outward. That's so good. All right. Fourth idea. We're going to talk around boys behavior and cultural voices. I prefaced this a few minutes ago. Let's go back to it because we're seeing a rise in disrespect, shutdown, sarcasm and sometimes aggression in boys. Even back to that statement I made a few minutes ago about low motivation. I am fascinated by how often I see the evidence of that showing up in boys reporting the kinds of people that they're following. Even boys reporting the thing they most want to do vocationally is to be a professional YouTuber, which I think speaks to some of this reality. Part of what's influencing all of this is what they're hearing and absorbing culturally. They're louder and louder voices. What some call the manosphere that are telling boys how to act, how to view women, how to define strength. Wait, will you say more about the manosphere? What that means? I don't want to, but I will. It is this concept and idea of redefining masculinity in this current moment for boys because they're all these really loud and I would add to that scary voices who are misrepresenting what I think it means to be a man. The world part of what I wrote about in raising emotionally strong boys is defining what it means to be a man for boys. Studying the person and the character of Christ who live so counter culturally to the way a majority of men live in this world and certainly contradictory to what I think the manosphere is communicating about what it means to be a man in this world. Can I jump in? We're going to come back to this. We talked more about adolescents, high school kids, but I have never had as many girls in my office talking about how horrendously boys are treating them. Boys just socially saying things that are awful, but also boys they're in relationship with. I mean, it is staggering to me and I want to say as we're talking about that, moms that are listening, I feel like I'm in your lane, but moms that are listening, I don't want you to take that kind of language from your voice. I don't want you to allow them to talk to you that way. And I think we worry sometimes that in this age of I can't have boundaries because I don't want to be the bad guy my children will never want to have relationship with me that parents are accepting venom and hatred and yucky language towards them. And I think moms as women, I think we're more inclined to allow it. And so I just want to say it is so important to have boundaries around that. How you allow your boys, your daughters, I think we naturally are a little harder on our daughters, but how you allow the boys in your life to talk to you is so significant in this moment of the culture we're living in, because I think it's going to ripple over to the girls in their lives later. So I talked so much about the difference between being a sounding board and a verbal punching bag. Yes. And you all, I'm going to give you an assignment and heads up. This is not going to be at all pleasant, but I wouldn't offer it to the conversation if I didn't feel like it was incredibly important. This is a really hard watch, but I would argue an important watch as we have this part of our conversation. I want to recommend that you watch a movie called Adolescents. It's a British Netflix drama series that won countless Emmys and Golden Globes. It is incredibly difficult to watch and I think equally important in understanding how vulnerable boys are to outside voices. So please consider that recommendation. And as we're talking about these things and the rise in YouTube and screens for all ages, the profound influence they're having, we have got to be so careful because if we're not intentional, those voices become louder than parents, teachers, coaches, mentors in a stage that is so critical for their development. So we want to really help guide them toward good choices when it comes to who gets a voice in their lives. With Mother's Day coming up, we have both been thinking a lot about our moms. We both lost them in recent years and there are days we miss their voices more than we know how to say. There is something about hearing a laugh, a phrase they used to say, even just seeing the way they moved in a home video. Those details matter and so many of those memories are still sitting in boxes somewhere, old VHS tapes, camcorder tapes, photo albums fading with time. That's where Legacy Box comes in. 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She came to stay with us not long ago, slept in our guest room and I may have run her life. What happened? She slept on our bowling branch sheets and the next morning she said, why does this bed feel like a hotel? And I said, because you're not sleeping on sheets from 2009 anymore. I get it. And here's the thing, most of us keep bedding way longer than we should. The corners start slipping, the fabric gets thin, pillows go flat. You think you need a new mattress but really, you just need better sheets. That's why we upgraded to bowling branch. Their signature organic cotton sheets are breathable, incredibly soft and they actually get softer over time. The first night you climb in, you notice it immediately. I added the waffle blanket too and now the whole bed feels finished like polished, like intentional. Sharon literally texted me from her house a week later and said, I ordered them, I couldn't go back. That's what happens. You start with the sheets and suddenly you're upgrading the whole bed. Upgrade your sleep with bowling branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at Bowlenbranch.com slash raising with code raising. That's Bowlen Branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, branch.com slash raising, code raising to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. So, if we're thinking about, these are the things we're seeing in middle schoolers, let's talk more about what they really need, what we can do to help. I love that. First on the list, to practice. They need reps, not perfection, not performance, practice. Making a plan, ordering food, handling the mistake, initiating the friendship, emailing a teacher or coach. Resilience research like work by Ann Mastin shows that competence develops through ordinary magic, repeated real life experiences, not big interventions. Two, they need to be outdoors and unplugged. Their brains and bodies need space that is slower, less stimulating and more physical. Time outside has been shown to reduce anxiety, improve attention and increase emotional regulation. Three things that are crucial today for kids. And research shows that time in nature lowers cortisol, which is the stress hormone and improves mood and focus in adolescence. You may hear that and just shove your middle schooler right out the door knowing that. But y'all, the reality is we need to be walking the dog together. If you don't have one, get one. We highly recommend them. Sit on the porch swing. If you don't have a porch swing, you can get that too. Shoot hoops. Go get ice cream and sit outside on a picnic table at Dairy Queen. Whatever you can do to get outside with your kids. And as we know with adolescence, some of our very best conversations happen when we're shoulder to shoulder rather than eyeball to eyeball. That provides a beautiful context for us to do just that. Three, moving outward, which is another way of saying giving kids purpose. This is huge. Middle schoolers need opportunities to help serve, contribute because it shifts them from what do people think of me to what can I be for someone else? In fact, moving outward is one of the most important skills we talk about in the capable book. When asking kids, who was a good friend to you today at school? Ask who were you a good friend to or who in your world right now needed a friend today? Fourth, healthy voices. They need other adults in their world. Coaches, mentors, leaders, therapists sometimes. And truth be told, you all, they're going to gravitate towards these voices in these years. At this stage, of course, as a parent, you are still foundational to who they are, but other voices also become formational. And what's hard about it is it can bring up your stuff. When Mrs. Smith is the coolest mom that has ever been on the planet, it's going to bring up your stuff. And my favorite example of this is David and I over the years have worked with a lot of families together, and we had this family that we both adored. Single mom, older son, younger daughter, and you had been working with the son for quite some time. She came in to see me when her daughter was in seventh grade. And she sat down on my couch and started talking about her family. And she said, I need to tell you something. And I said, I'd love to hear it. And she said, I'm so grateful for David Thomas and my son's life. I need him. My ex-husband does not know how to even name one emotion. I need him in my son's life. And she said, and I know that I need you in my daughter's life as she moves through middle and high school. And I need to say out loud that you threaten me. Never heard anyone say this before or since. And I think it's been true a lot. Hopefully not because I'm a threatening person, but here's why. She said, right about the time my daughter's going to stop talking to me as a teenager, I'm bringing her so she will talk to you about the things that are most important to her. And I'm paying you to do it. And I laughed so hard and thought, of course it feels that way. You all, and we have said this before, we'll say it a million times that I hope that we have been an important voice in a lot of kids' lives over the years. And we are temporary. You as their parents are permanent. So when those voices come in, celebrate them, be grateful for them, cheer them on, tell your kids how grateful you are even for them in their lives and hang on because you will be there forever. I love that reminder. All right, let's drill down on some really practical ways to build capability. Let's go back in for that. Okay, I love it. All right. Number one, make them the point person. Doing food, talking to coaches and teachers, checking in at appointments. That's good. Number two, require one reach out per week. I had a girl one time who called her trying to make herself do this operation branch out, which I love. That's great. Text a friend, invite someone over, make the plan. Number three, limit passive screen time, especially for boys. Replace it with building, creating, playing, working. Plus two, for build in regular discomfort, new environments, new people trying something they're not good at. Number five, create outdoor rhythms, family walks, late days, unstructured outdoor time. Six, give them real responsibility, babysitting, helping younger kids, having some household roles, chores. Seven, introduce them to other trusted adults, youth leaders, coaches, family friends. Eight, let them solve. Don't step in too fast. In friendship conflict, in school issues, in social tension, any of those places. Nine, normalize awkwardness. Of course that felt weird. That's how it goes. Ten, help them separate identity from struggle. This is something you're learning, not who you are. We talk in the book so much about failing as a first attempt in learning. Such a good thing for kids to hear. So in closing you all, couple of reminders. Middle schoolers don't need us to rescue them, manage everything for them, or smooth every path. They need us to stay close, to stay calm, and keep giving them opportunities to grow. Yes, because this stage is as messy and awkward as it can be. And it's actually one of the most powerful windows we have to help kids become capable. The goal isn't to make it easy. The goal is to help them discover they can do hard things. David, what a team we have that we get to call friends who help make this podcast possible. Chris Sterrett, our engineer. Our management team at KCH. We are thrilled to be a part of the That Sounds Fun Network. Our music was created by the insanely talented Dave Haywood of Lady A. And if this podcast felt helpful to you, please consider subscribing, liking, sharing, all the things. We are grateful for you and cheering you on always.
