Major Conference Semifinal Controversy + Previewing Two Massive Game 6’s

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Howdy partners I was going to say I think big chicken is a great description for our Bundteps approaches to job. I don't think it lands. Alright so we had an interesting NBA game on Wednesday night and literally about five minutes before we started recording this the NBA put out its last two minute report. It won't be fresh news by the time this podcast comes out but it's fresh news to us in this moment. I would say and I don't know how you feel about this Bundteps but I don't want a 2-2 game five when the series is 2-2 to be decided by a loose ball foul 70 feet from the team's basket. Having said that a foul is a foul and if I was a Detroit Pistons fan I would be breathing fire about the way that the Pistons Cavs game five ended on Wednesday night with a non-call. The last two minute report that just came out not only said that that was the correct non-call but that every call made by the officials in the last two minutes and overtime were correct calls. So I don't know what to say but it was a high stakes basketball game that saw a lot of drama and the Cavs had their first road win of the postseason and if I was a Pistons fan I would not be satisfied. Yeah I mean there's two different conversations about this game right. One is that the Pistons absolutely choked it away and had a horrible final three minutes old regulation and were not much better in overtime and Cavs managed to come back and win the game. The other conversation to have is this was a very obviously a foul. I'm at the combine there were a hundred people at the bar I was sitting with Bobby Marks watching the game at every person the bar said oh my god how did they not call a foul. It was very obvious like and look I covered an NCAA tournament game 15 years ago between Pitt and Butler. Pitt was the number one team I think in the tournament and they're playing Butler second year in a row Butler would go on to play in the national title game in D.C. and Matt Howard got fouled 93 feet from the basket after grabbing a free throw miss and he flung the ball down court and they call a foul because he got grabbed by the guy in Pitt and it was a foul and it was not great that the game was ended on a free throw and basically at the buzzer rather than going to overtime but a foul was committed and look the NBA can do whatever they want with the last minute report and they can do whatever they want with a judgment call and say the Tony brothers didn't eat his whistle and obviously not call a foul that the whole world could see and yeah like it would have in a different way it would have been unsatisfying but we talk a lot about the refs and ironically we talk about J.B. Bickerstaff likes to complain about the refs more than he needs to most of the time as we have talked about in the past. This is one time where you can pretty definitively say Tony brothers cost Detroit the game because that foul would have been called with less than a second ago if maybe our Sartons misses both free throws at least we would have had a chance to do it and by not calling that you eliminate the chance for Detroit to win the game right there and when that game went to overtime I was pretty confident we were just going to go on and win the game did and again you can say well the piss it should have blown that leaf. Totally true. This is where terribly late. Kate Cunningham had bad turnovers again. They had bad process. They missed open shots. All that is true. The end of the day though that foul is called. It's 3-2 Detroit going to game six and I don't think anybody is sitting here saying oh man you know they should have called that foul. They would have said yeah Jared Allen ran them over and tripped them and the way the game ended and it would have just everyone would have moved on but you know that's the way it goes sometimes and we'll see if the business can respond in game six. I mean this is a case of like who are you going to believe the last two minute reporter or you're lying eyes. You know like they included a video link like they always do with every play in the last two minute reporter. I haven't clicked on it. I don't know if they like doctored the footage but it clearly it was a foul now and I'll be honest with you I tuned in to JB Bickerstaff's post game press conference expecting just belligerent you know I expect because he can breathe fire. He was very matter of fact about it you know he said I mean it was a foul like it wasn't called that's tough. He didn't rant and rave. I thought he was going to and having said all that the pistons didn't deserve to be bailed out on a call like it wouldn't have been. It would have been a fair ending because it was a foul. It would not have been a just ending. That was a game the pistons deserve to lose because of the way they completely melted down in the fourth quarter. The offense went just absolutely kaput. Jaylin Durin was reduced to being a cheerleader. Honestly the most impressive thing that Jaylin Durin did last night was face the media post game. I mean we've seen a lot of players a lot of young players in that kind of situation find a way to avoid the media. I'll give him credit for standing up. Kamin Yama was nothing preventing him from facing the media after he got ejected except for he just didn't do it. Right and I'm being dead serious. I'll give Jaylin Durin credit for standing up and being accountable when it's been a really rough go and he got the plug pulled on him for all of the fourth quarter and overtime. But the fact that the guy was supposed to be Kade Cunningham's co-star is a complete non factor in this series is a massive concern now and a real complication this summer. So again the pistons absolutely earned a loss but if the things called the way it should be called they should have been bailed out by a bonehead foul on Jared Allen. The only other thing I'll say too is the two points to Cleveland's court before that were on a foul on Tobias Harris that Tony Brothers called on an Evan Mowbly drive where there was about as much contact as there was on this Sarthopson play with Jared Allen and an Evan Mowbly didn't even lose the ball in the play. So again fear of Detroit Pistons fan you're watching the last minute of the game same end of the court you would say okay you kind of hit Evan Mowbly and you call a foul there you knock over another guy you don't call a foul there. I again do not think Detroit should have been bailed out. Well at least Evan Mowbly is driving to the basket like you know in a scoring play you know. I don't think it's quite apples to apples but look the Cavs were you know ESPN analytics said it was 97% the pistons to win. I don't know about that let's just say it's 1 in 20 you know something like that. That would be 95% so sure. It was a rare to be down 9 on the road with less than 3 minutes to go. It's hard to win that game and it's hard to lose that game. Right and by the way to be down 9 and actually have a shot to win that's really hard because you're down you know you're down three possessions and you know you would make that up and have a chance to win. That was the crazy set of circumstances and whenever that happens you need you know the comeback team needs to play very well which the Cavs did. Evan Mowbly arguably made the biggest shot of his career he made a three-pointer from the top of the key without hesitation in a vital moment. That was a big thing for him. Right after a big time driving dunk by him. Yes and he also had a defensive play where he got a block I think in that sequence. So you have that and then you have you know Donovan Mitchell he made a driving basket he had been I think 0 for 8 in the second half and he made a driving basket. Jared Allen had a putback. James Harden I think got to the foul line but the point is everybody in the Cavs side had a pathway or had a piece of it. On the Detroit side there were mistakes you know Tobias Harris missed a wide open shot Danis Jenkins missed a wide open shot. Karris Lavert had the last possession for the Pistons went in look like he tried to get fouled ended up falling on his back and throwing up an air ball. It takes all of those things plus the call or non-call to come back from nine points down with two and a half minutes left and so it's a conglomination of all of them. Let's talk about what's now going to happen in this series because this will be coming out Friday night is game six. Okay the home team the Cavs have been undefeated at home in this postseason and let's just be clear the Pistons are six and six in the playoffs the Cavs are seven and five. Neither of these teams is. Jared Allen Been about as uninspiring a run to the conference finals for either team as you could possibly have. James Harden Well for two teams that are top four seats you know so. Jared Allen That's why I say it's uninspiring neither team has impressed in either round. James Harden Right so let's just be clear that both these teams are flawed and I think this series could still go any which way. Okay but the Pistons have clearly lost three games in a row. So JB Bickerstaff guys has a couple of potential choices in front of him. Jaylen Durin is giving him very little and he played 25 minutes in game five in those 25 minutes he was minus 16 in a game that went to overtime and he didn't play in overtime. Jared Allen He didn't play in the fourth quarter. He got younger eight. James Harden He did. Jared Allen I think he actually came in for a rebound on a free throw. James Harden He did not play one second in the fourth quarter. He was going to come in and then he didn't come in. Jared Allen He came in and stood at the free throw line and they made the free throw on the call time. That was the one time he was on the call. James Harden So anyway here are his numbers in the series. He is averaging nine points. He averaged over 20 during the regular season 20 and 10 guy. He is shooting under 50 percent 46 percent. He shot over 65 percent of the regular season averaging just six rebounds half of what he averaged. But more than any of his statistics which are down obviously because his minutes are down he is getting beat back door. He is taking the wrong angles. He is getting beat for rebounds. And the other thing is that when Jamie Bickerstaff has played Paul Reed, B-Ball Paul, he has been terrific. Paul Reed in 41 minutes in three games. He is 15 of 20 from the field and has had huge impact on energy plays. And to the point where Jamie Bickerstaff was asked like how come you don't play Paul Reed? How come you haven't been playing Paul Reed more? And he said that he thought that Paul plays better when he comes in and the pistons are down because his energy like changes the game. It's a fascinating concept but like in an elimination game you can't take a guy who's been your best big man and say we're going to wait till we're down. And even Isaiah Stewart he has not has as much minutes because he's had to get Paul Reed minutes. And so the question is this what are you going to do with Jaylin Durant? I don't believe in benching foundation players. Agree? I don't believe in that. And this is a sink or swim moment for Jaylin Durant for a ton of reasons. Obviously we've talked a lot about his negotiations coming up this summer. There was a sink or swim moment for him in game seven the first round. Let's be honest. He had a bad first round and in game seven he came through for him. He had 15 and 15. He was the player that we saw all season long. I challenge him. I say hey I'm sticking with you. We need you at your best. We can't have you getting beat up and outplayed by two. The pads got two good bigs but they're not guys who are known as enforcers. We need you to be an enforcer. So I'm challenging him and I'm sticking with him. And I'm going to go down. There's an old saying, a Texas high school football coach saying dance with a one who brung you. Yeah, no one outside Texas ever said that. Yeah, I was going to say. I guarantee you he was made up by a Texas high school football coach. At least that's where I first heard it. Dance with a one who brung you. Sure. Alright, never mind. I'm just going to let that go. We will let that go. Yeah, I mean look, the Pistons need to really ramp up the play better adjustment. Cade Cunningham was much better in game five than he was in the two games in Cleveland where he was very bad. I mean, I would still say that the two, you know, if Detroit loses this game or a series, you're going to obviously look at the end of game five and you're going to look at the end of game three. And Cade Cunningham, a first team NBA player and then top five MVP finisher this year had three of the worst turnovers you're ever going to see in a critical 45 second stretch of the game and frankly just cost the team the game. Like he doesn't make those turnovers. Detroit, I think wins the game. They had all the momentum at that point and instead the game flipped back around the other way. They lose a chance to go up 3-0 and the series private been a sweep that like they win that game. They could have just hammerlocked the calves. Instead, they let the calves off the mat. It's a game thinking back on it. It's a game that reminds me a lot of Bucks Raptors game three in 2019 in Toronto. That game went to overtime. Toronto ends up winning the game after Kyle Lowry fouled out down the stretch of the game and Milwaukee had a chance to go up 3-0. They let that game get away. The Raptors got back off the mat. They went four in a row. They closed the series out in six games. That's I think what's going to happen here. The Pistons are going to spend all summer kicking themselves over the end of game five and the end of game three when they very easily could have had this series closed out in five and instead now they're positioned where they can lose it in six. Let's talk about Cade. He did have 39 points and he was on his way because he had made a couple of big shots earlier in the fourth quarter when the Pistons built that nine point lead. The game was the calves had the lead and the Pistons jump up by nine and Cade led that. But he had six turnovers in game five. He's had 11 straight games with at least four turnovers. So basically the whole playoffs they played 12 with at least four. And when your offense doesn't have a massive margin for error that's extremely painful. And then the other thing is is that Kenny Atkinson and the Cavs defense have super duper ramped up their double teams of Cade cutting in. That was basically how they got back in the game. They double teamed him on the perimeter and then played zone. Not maybe not every possession but I certainly saw multiple sessions they played zone behind them and it's basically just daring. I mean basically it's a triangle in two essentially with a two on him. Right exactly like a triangle in two with a box in one mindset. And you know the Pistons generated open shots out of it. It wasn't like he tried to be the one time he did try to beat it and he got off a half way decent shot. He missed it. But he generated open shots out of it. But here's the stats. Games one through three the Cavs double teamed Cade 12 times in the three games four times a game. He was four of 10 shooting on those possessions shot. I'm sorry their team was four of 10 on those 12 possessions. Not great. The Cavs would probably take that and that's probably why in the last two games they've double teamed him 33 times. And then on those possessions they have generated 27 shots seven of 27. Barth. And I believe they were 0 of 8 on the last nine double teams in the fourth quarter. Well and some of it was just not like there were times they just miss clean looks out of it. Correct. There was also a lot of hesitation. All I like hey somebody's going to have to shoot the ball type of possessions. Cade's last points in regulation. I had to look at overtime his last points in regulation though it was 641 remaining. And they'd never figured out how to score without he missed a few shots down the stretch. You know part of this is like Cade's got to find a way to come through as a closer whether that's you know creating a shot for somebody else or you know finding a way to get the ball back and be able to get a look for himself. You know Duncan Robinson was really missed down that stretch just because like they have such a little shooting on that roster. He missed the game with a lower back intrusion. Dennis Jenkins played well but you know would have been nice to have Duncan Robinson spacing on the floor down the stretch. Now you could say well it would have given the Cavs the bulls out to go after but it's going to be a painful film session to watch those last six and a half minutes of the fourth quarter for the Pistons. Also the last three games the three games the Cavs have won and this is something that I thought JB in retrospect I thought that JB maybe could have gone after the there have been times where I thought JB has gone after the referees this year where I was like I don't know what that's accomplishing. Yeah. But on this one he and I'm not even talking about the call at the end of regulation. The Cavs have a hundred free throws in the last three games. The Pistons have 54. It's a 46 differential and that's a tough situation with three game spread. Now the Cavs are probably going to have more free throws than the Pistons on an average game because they have more free throw hunters and the Pistons play physical. But 46 is not going to get it done. And the other thing I'll point out in addition to Duncan Robinson being a three point dominant player for the first three games and then not being ineffective in game four and missing game five. Tobias Harris who has been an absolute rock offensively for them last two games one of 13 in the second half shooting. So the Pistons are going the wrong direction here and the question is going to be what is JB going to do to get them out of it. And it may just be as simply as challenging them. But you know when you've lost three games in a row and you're the number one seed and you're facing elimination you consider doing some stuff. Then again they were down three won the last series and won three games. There's also just not a lot of buttons to push partly by design. Tragedy and Langgood didn't make any moves to make the team better at the trade deadline. And you know I mean at the time I did not love that because I do think there's a good chance this is Detroit's best chance to get through. And I think I'm not saying they should have traded all their picks and blown everything up. But if you think sometimes there's sort of an assumption that you have infinite time. I know you like to say it. There's always time Brian but there's not actually. Well this actually is always time you're down by nine with two and a half minutes. What I mean in the life cycle of a team on the Detroit side like sometimes you think you're going to have six chances to break through and you don't. That's true. This might be the best chance to try it has as a number one seed when they were relatively healthy all year to break through and get all the way through even though they hadn't done it before. And you know like Kobe White didn't get traded for very much. I think Kobe White would be helping the Pistons right now. Like it'd be a pretty welcome addition to their team. So you know look we'll see what happens the rest of the series. But the star Thompson we had barely talked about him. He obviously is a terrific defensive player. The offensive problems are a real problem. Kaz are just not guarding him. It's messing up a lot of what Detroit is doing. You mentioned the end of the game. It's just much not having Duncan Robinson out there as it is having a star Thompson out there where there's they could just go out of star Thompson or go at him offensively and just say we're not going to cover you. We're going to play four and five and everybody else. So it's it's a tough challenge. But at the end of the day Detroit is going to need a fantastic Kade Cunningham game. He's got to be the best player on the court. And like you said earlier big man JB has to go with Jalen Dern and say you weren't all in B.A. Player this year. You've frankly been the biggest disappointment in the whole playoffs by a country mile. And you've got to be a lot better if we want our series season to continue because if you're not they're not coming back from Cleveland. Like that's the only way they're going to get a game seven is he looks like Jalen Dern. Yeah I don't know that JB needs to tell Jalen Dern how much of a disappointment he's been. Well I think Jalen Dern is probably well aware of that. Relax. Well I'm relaxed with the wording. The point is the point is he's got to go at him and say we need you to be the guy you've been all season like where we need you to play like that. I think he's got to I think he's got to hype him up. But yes I agree that I agree that he's got to stick with him and he's got to figure out whatever it is. He's got to figure out a way to get the Jalen Dern that we saw from October through mid April and not the guy that we've seen for the last almost month now. You know the one thing I'm going to disagree with you just on pilot on them for not making moves before the deadline and your point about your point about Cody White or Cody White. OK that's fair but in terms of this being their one real swing I can't agree with that when the face of their franchise is 24 years old. Yeah I'm not saying it is definitely but I'm not and again I'm not saying they had to trade four first round picks for people but like there's a I would assume we got traded to Minnesota for second round picks and Kobe White got traded to Charlotte for second round picks and they were involved by the way in the out as who trade. That's how that they were part of the trade like they could have gotten one of those guys and not given up even a first and wouldn't have impacted any of their long term stuff and they would have had a guy who would fit with their team. They could have signed this summer and by the way would potentially be helping to maybe make the NBA finals this year. That's that's all I'm saying like there are ways to middle it where they could have been more aggressive to make the team better without sacrificing their future and by being the most patient possible and essentially just doing a rebuilding team kind of move to move up in the first round to take on money which is what they did in that trade. Like if they were going to lose in the first and second round playoffs especially you're going to look back on that and say that was a missed opportunity to make the team better and maybe they'll have a great run here where they go to the finals a bunch of times but they now have to decide what to do with Jalen Dern pay him this summer and this has been a very concerning month on that front and you have to do the same thing with the Sar Thompson and it's been frankly a very concerning month on that front too because those two guys have shown that while they are talented players if those are your three core players going forward like that's going to be a challenge to get where you hope to go with Kate Cunningham. I don't think anything you said is unfair but I've been comparing the Piston situation all you know for several months now to the Thunder situation a couple of years ago and look Sam Presti was criticized by some people some people are company even for not making a move to help the Thunder that season that's when they made the Gordon Hayward trade which they thought they get something from him he gave them nothing and but they cleared some some money that's also when they facilitated the Mavericks acquisition for Daniel Gafford the Mavericks went out and got PJ Washington really help I'm basically was critical in beating the Thunder got Daniel Gafford with the Thunder's pick and you know Presti was criticized some and obviously what he did was he evaluated the roster saw the holes acted very aggressively that summer and you know the rest is history that's being written right now I'm not saying that the Pistons are the next dynasty I'm saying I'm new delay judgment on their front offices approach although what you're saying about being able to get guys who could help for not a major price that's fair by the way the Cavs have have not made it to the Eastern Conference finals without LeBron since 1992 so that would be a major accomplishment obviously would be Donovan Mitchell's first ever visit and you know Kenny Atkinson understanding the moment immediately came out after the game and said that Game 6 was a must win for them and I get why you said that. Who is your favorite player on the 92 Cavs? Danny Ferry. They had some of my favorite Cavs ever Mark Price Larry Nance Brad Doherty. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right other Game 6 can happen on Friday night Minnesota looks to try to keep their series alive against San Antonio. I got to say you guys know how impressed I had been with the Spurs. You know I'm not going to make a prediction. Assuming they get one more win I don't know man I'm so impressed with them I'm not taking anything off the table and I remember at midseason I was talking about whether the Spurs were good enough if they didn't make a move this year and I remember when they didn't make a move I remember saying I guess they think that this isn't their year and you corrected me McMahon instantaneously you said that's not how they're looking at it. Right. I remember this you said you said they think they can win it and I was you know I was I was skeptical. Yeah I mean them not making a move was doubling down of hey we've got the guys right now who can win it. We don't. I am watching this roster. Can I can I gently push back a little bit. But they played Portland in the first round and were down double digits in multiple games and they did come back in one. Just hold on and they're playing a beating up Minnesota team. Now listen they Victor was amazing in game five and played great coming off the suspension and they're up 3-2 and I think they're going to win game six and close the series out. I'm only saying that to say that they are about to play a team that is 8-0 in the playoffs and is steamrolling anybody and are the defending champ. And they will be the and they will be appropriately favorite. What I'm saying is I'm stutter stepping because I'm watching the production. Of course you're stutter stepping. Of course you're stutter stepping. This USWB interruption brought to you by well I just I was just I just couldn't help but laugh and I'm you know I'm not going to make a prediction. Yes we know you're not going to make a prediction you're going to say everybody can win. So I just couldn't help but laugh. All right let me give you the numbers of how everybody on the Spurs team is performing in this and by the way I agree Minnesota is banged up they're also damn good. Yeah Minnesota is great. They are really experts at at playoff series and playoff games and they are a hard team to kill. Yeah the Spurs said everything you would want them to do in game five. We talked about the other day they did everything you'd want them to do in that game five. That was an incredibly impressive performance to reestablish control of the series. Victor's stats are a little bit down because you obviously only played a few minutes in game three. This is just for series and hopefully else. This is just for this series. Okay because I was told that Portland's no good. Just teasing Bon Temps just relax. Wemba Nyama is averaging 20 points, 13 rebounds, four blocks shooting 51%. Stefan Castle 18 points, six assists, five rebounds shooting 51%. De'Aaron Fox 17 points, four rebounds not shooting that great especially from three but still 17 a game. Dylan Harper rookie 15 points, six rebounds. God does he rebound for a guard. God does he go to the basket and look to rebound shooting 54%. Again not so good from three point range. We talked about the first three point range. I'm still going. Devin Vasell 13 points, four rebounds, three assists, 44%. Yes they have good players that are scoring points. Yes. Kelton Johnson 11.2 points off the bench, four rebounds, 50% from the field. Are you hearing these numbers? Julian Champani 11 points, six rebounds shooting 43%, 34% from three. Oh my God they keep coming. I haven't even talked about Harrison Bards and Luke Cornetti who aren't even scoring that well but play important roles. I mean what a team. What a team. They're a great team. Yes they are. They're a very good team. The only thing I was trying to do before was like I think all season long, I'm not saying we have really been doing this, but I think all season long people have been trying to find ways to say the thunder aren't actually all that good. That's not what I'm doing. I'm not talking about the thunder at all. Well you kind of are. I would say you are slightly. They should be the prohibitive favorites to win the series. Okay but you cannot look. Which isn't a knock on the Spurs either. You can't get on a step ladder and look Victor Wim and Yam in the eye and tell him that the thunder should be prohibitive favorites. Now you could be right Victor is a different thing. What I'm telling you is this. The Spurs are an extremely talented team that will walk into the Paycom Center with absolutely zero fear of their opponent and they shouldn't have any fear. Now they've got to finish Minnesota off and I agree with Wendy. Anthony Edwards is one of the most ruthless competitors in the league. Hopefully the extra day helps both of his knees because he didn't have a good knee right now and hopefully we get a hell of a game six. I think the Spurs are winning this game on Friday. So that's where I'm at on the Spurs too. I think the Spurs are great. I mean it's a three two series and their two wins have both been blowouts or the better team and they will walk into Bricktown believing that they are the better team. So I think it's going to be a heck of a series. I think it's going to be a great series. I just think. Well it's not oh by the way I'm not counting the wolves out yet. I'm just. The wolves. That's some wiggle room. Yes but look I think the Spurs are great. They've had a phenomenal season. They've been better than I think anybody even including with the Spurs could have possibly imagined the way the season's gone. They've been unbelievable and I think it's going to be an awesome series. I just also think that the way the Thunder have played and the way they've been set up coming into this series like to me I don't think it's a coin flip series. It doesn't mean the Spurs can't win. The Spurs can win. They showed they could this season. They've got a singular force the likes of which we really haven't ever seen before but I'm going to go into it personally thinking that the defending champions are clear favorites and should win and it's going to be incredible to watch and I can't wait to see it and if the Spurs do win it which they certainly can I agree with both of you on that then if they're healthy we could be set up for the next decade where they rip off more than five. Like that's the kind of thing we're looking at. Mike Wright, Michael C for Country Right, our San Antonio correspondent and I think you guys are friends with him. I'm certainly not but he is refusing to barbecue during the finals. He promotes himself as like you know a pit master but he is refusing to host a barbecue during the finals. I offered to have Bontem's pay for it since Bontem's owes me dinner because of a Spurs bet but Mike is being an ungracious host. I just wanted to get that out there. Well first off during the finals like how do you that's an assumption that San Antonio is going to be in the finals? I said if it gets to that point I see but he is preemptively refusing because he doesn't want our company or what's the story there? Probably he's gonna do it and just not epic fan around that's what I would guess. I'm hosting in Oklahoma City at the Goat and the Tips of Tiki. You're not hosting anything. Yes I am. I've got stuff set up. I've already got a couple of thoughts. Who's hosting in Minneapolis? I just want to give a fair time. That's supper Midwest. I think that's my territory. I'll volunteer to host in Minneapolis. All right. Obviously the Spurs still need to get one more victory and to set that match up up. The rule of five apply to barbecues or is there a barbecue exception? No there's a barbecue exception because you're at someone's house typically and you're all a sort of you're not sitting with 15 people probably. You're probably sitting at a group of five table or something like that. There's a rule of five within the barbecue? I think it sort of implies. I think it sort of just sort of sets itself up there. But I mean when you're a guest at someone's house you don't set the rules. Right? I mean if he sets the table for 15 then that's what you'll do. You accept the invitation, you accept those situations. All right. Bon Temps, you are at the draft combine. Oh, so there's a big fan. They're aggressive on the loudspeaker over there. What's going on there, Bon Temps? It's random people walking by yelling. They're in an arena. Do you have any reporting on the rooms, the interview rooms, Bon Temps? Yeah, buddy of mine told me Toronto's room was the best. Oh, do you have any deets? Listen to the pod. I know. He just said to tell you that Toronto's room was the best. I said, okay. So that was the test. Does he work for Toronto? No, he works for the NBA. He works for the NBA. He saw all the rooms. He said, Toronto's room was the best room. I didn't do any reporting on it. Okay, listen. That's more than we had before. Now we know. We can follow up. I just want to know what you're seeing and hearing there at the draft combine. I mean the main stuff that's been going on, obviously there's workouts the last few days or just a couple of scrimmages. But the main thing we talked about is the draft lottery reform for like a wider league perspective. And the expectation is the 321 proposal that Choms wrote about a couple of weeks ago is going to pass in a couple of weeks when the league votes on it. So there's some smaller details of it that need to get ironed out. How many teams get ping pong balls in the plan? What is the percentage everybody has? Some of the rules over traded picks will be interesting to see where they land. Like what happens if there's a team three years in a row that's in the top five and then the third year, the other team has their pick, where does the pick land, etc. But ultimately that's going to pass because Adam Silver wants it to pass and there's going to be changes as he has said. But there's going to be changes. So that's been the main thing going on that way. And then otherwise, you know, I don't think it's a slam dunk that AJ Debans is the number one pick. Our guy Jeremy Wu has been saying all week that it's an open thing with him and Darren Peterson, which I think it has been for the most part all season. Will Dawkins and Michael Winger have the next 40-ish days to figure out who they're going to pick. So we'll see where they land on that. And then otherwise, you know, biggest news of the week obviously is the Sixers moving on from Darryl Maury and what's going to happen there. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. So on Thursday, Bob Myers, our former colleague at ESPN, spent a lot of time with Bob last season. And Josh Harris, the governor of the Philly 76ers, had a news conference, press conference. I want to call it to discuss changing out their lead executive. And I just read some of the bond terms. I'm not sure if you actually saw it. I didn't watch it, but I read through the transker. Your key takeaways as being our central Philly correspondent there? It didn't really have any huge takeaways for me. I mean, Bob Myers is great at giving a presser and being very friendly to everybody and sort of keeping everything close to the vest, which is what I'd say he did. I mean, he said everything you would expect him to say in this presser, you know, wants to hire somebody who's going to be a collaborative and communicative and be a good guy to work with and, you know, yeah, exactly. They got asked about, you know, Josh Harris got asked about paying the tax. He said, of course we'll pay the tax. Bob said, of course we'll pay the tax. Yeah, that's interesting to point out because, you know, the Jared McCain trade has been a big topic of conversation for the last couple of months. You know, when the trade happened, Jared McCain trade is why Daryl got fired ultimately, I think. I think it was the straw that broke the camel's back in Philly. Like, yes, they lost on the second round, but the trade combined with Daryl's press conference, when he said he sold high and that became a soundbite that's been talked about for three months, I think played a part in him not having a job. As you pointed out, that trade also got these Sixers out of the tax. And it was the fourth consecutive year that the Sixers made moves, not necessarily at the deadline, but made moves to get out of the tax. And to the point where, when the Sixers were approaching the trade deadline before the McCain trade, Joe Ellen B went on the record and openly said, well, the last few years we've been dodging the tax. And then they did it again. And so Josh Harris saying that the team has the clearance to go into the tax is interesting considering that they very clearly have been operating like a team that doesn't have clearance to go into the tax. And the reason that is interesting is because to me, the interesting thing that Bob Myers said, and Bob Myers is the president of the sport, the, what's the name of the Harris Blitzer? Harris Blitzer Sports and Entertainment, I believe this one's called, HBS. That is Washington commanders, Philadelphia 76ers, New Jersey devils, some soccer clubs, Crystal Palace, Delaware Bluehands, Delaware Bluehands. Okay. Not the Delaware Bluehands is the college. That's the Wilmington Bluecoats, I believe is what the G.D.D. is. No, it's the, that's not it. Whatever they're doing. Right. What are they? The Bluecoats. That's what I just said. Oh, yeah. All right. Anyway, sorry. I was trying to make a joke tonight. Anyway, he is overseeing that. He will not be overseeing the 76ers, although he technically is the boy. I don't buy that. I do. Bob Myers is not going to be running the 76ers. Not on a day to day basis, but it sounds like he's not going to be living in Philadelphia. Yeah. So be involved. I know. It sounds like she's going to be running the team on a remote basis. Well, he's not going to be doing any of the day to day stuff, but he's going to be the primary basketball decision maker. I don't know if I would take that away from what he said personally. I don't think he's going to be the primary basketball decision maker. Do you think the Perkney Hires is going to have a lot of autonomy? Yes. I do too. Well, and I mean, I guess it depends on who he hires. I mean, if he hires someone that is very young or inexperienced in the job, I would guess he'll be more involved than if he hired someone like Daryl Mori who's done the job for a long time. I don't know who they're going to hire, but I think Bob is what I can, what I feel pretty confident in saying is Bob Myers has no interest in being the GM of an NBA team. And Bob Myers took this job because it's not being the GM of an NBA team and he is involved with commanders and he is involved with all this other stuff. And while he certainly will be involved with the basketball team, and by the way, has been around the basketball team at different points all season this year in the background, I don't think he's going to be coming in and saying, I'm the one deciding things. I think he's going to hire somebody and they're going to have the ability to do the job. Well, I would just say that his first acts working with Harris Blitzer was when he consulted on the hiring of the commander's general manager and head coach, which the team ended up turning things around and making the playoffs the first year after that. And that was when he then got the big giant job for an enormous compensation package to run all of them. So he has, you know... I believe he just hired the Devil's GM too. It was involved in that. Okay, there you go. I just learned the Devil's needed a new GM. Can I ask a compound related question? Hold on, I'm not done with Myers yet. One of the things that he said today is that depth in the NBA, and I agree with this totally, the depth may be more important than ever. And I just raffled off the spurs depth and how important it is. Well, he got asked, can you still win with three Max players? And he said, it's unclear, basically. Well, okay, he is on Max players and depth. So, yes, sure. Yes, if you have, if you have, if you're okay, if you're Oklahoma City, you can have three Max players. Most other teams can't. Well, here's the thing. They're not trading Tyrese Maxi. Okay. And there are other two Max players. I don't see how they're trading. I mean, they could trade Joel and be literally for nothing. They probably have to attach picks to both of those, to either one of those guys. Listen, this was the most interesting, I got to find it now, of course, but the most interesting thing that was said today was in relation to this topic. When Bob got asked about, like, how do you basically go from having, having, you know, these really good play, you have these two young guards, you have these two old expensive players who are injured. How do you sort of figure out the way to kind of divide or to bridge that gap? He said, that is the question. If I had the answer to that question, I'd actually just do it. If I, and I would, I look forward to partnering with leadership to get that answer, but you're asking the right question. But it's a question I think everybody is asking. And it is obvious, but like, that is the whole existential problem in Philly. They have these two young guards that are incredibly exciting and they've got $110 million this year and $110 plus million next year and two guys in their mid-30s who are hurt all the time. Like, and it's very hard to square those two things and build a team that's really good enough to actually break through, which is why it is a very interesting job, because you have this talent, but you're in a market where there's super high expectations. Ownership has not exactly proven it's willing to spend as much money as they say they are. And there's not a clear path to having this thing look a lot different for at least another year until Paul George is an expiring deal. Right. And probably another two. So, you know, it's, it's, it's going to be really interesting to see how this service goes and move Bob Byers. Well, and you're coming off a game four when, you know, the place was invaded by the ton of Nick Stans when they got swept. Having said that, as I've talked to people in the last two or three days since Darryl was moved on, people talk about how dynamic that backcourt is. And they're like, man, I would love to have to be able to build a team around those two guys. It's really exciting. I'd love to have that job. And I'm like, okay, but how are you going to build it? Right. Because if you get an idea, call Bob, because Bob would like to hear it. If you could start out with those two guys in a blank slate. Yeah, that'd be incredible. Like to start from there, but it's, it's far from a blank slate. And it's, you know, it's, it's a very complicated, I mean, it's a fascinating job. It's a very complicated job, but it's not an easy job. What did you have about the Combine McMahon? I just want to So, Ohm had a great story behind the scenes story with all the wizards folks, you know, from the, I don't know, what 24 or 48 hours of them winning the lottery. And, you know, Will Dawkins, Michael Winger, and that story and in the press conferences they've done, they've been, they've at least been publicly open to considering trading that pick. And, you know, I, you know, you've been on the ground in Chicago, I just wonder, is there a lot of chatter about that? Is that something that people are taking seriously? Or is that being, being kind of perceived as lip service? You know the Utah Jazz, Tim. Yeah, I do. I know the Utah Jazz. I have a pretty good sense of where the Utah Jazz are at. Where do you think the Utah Jazz are on that, on that in terms of wanting to trade up? Well, I mean, that's what the, that's been the, the, the, if you're talking about like, what is the Scuttlebut about, what will happen in the draft? I mean, you're talking around it, but the Scuttlebut around the draft is, would Ryan Smith, who's a prominent BYU guy, want to make sure he gets AJ DeBantzah on his team? That's what you're asking. So the question is, would the, would the Utah Jazz be willing to pay a premium to move up to number one to make sure they can get AJ DeBantzah? Because that's really all you're talking about. Yeah, would Danny Ainge be willing to be on the wrong side of a value proposition? And the answer to that, I feel very confidently in saying is no. And I would refer back to the last time that our board pick was traded, which is Danny Ainge going from one to three and drafted Jayce Tatum and getting another pick in return to allow the Sixers to move up from three to one to draft Mark Elfons. So I don't, I don't think that Danny Ainge and Austin Ainge's son and the rest of the Jazz front office will be doing anything remotely like that this year. I think if AJ DeBantzah goes first to Washington, I think they'll take the next guy on the board, where they like. And if he doesn't go first to Washington and they take Darren Peterson, I think the Jazz will take AJ DeBantzah with the second pick and they'll be very happy either way. That's what I would say. The vast majority of the people I've talked to think there's a tier of two at the top. Are you hearing a lot of varying opinions on that? Well, I come, McBance has taken over your podcast, Brian. I'm just asking. I'm not a draft guy, man. I'm learning myself. I would say generally there's a tier of four at the top with AJ DeBantzah, Darren Peterson, Cameron Boozer, and Caleb Wilson. I would say generally it's two and two. I think there are some people who have Wilson and Boozer maybe higher. Obviously, Peterson had an interesting year from a health standpoint. So there's some questions about him from that standpoint. And there's different questions about all four of those guys, but they're all really good. And then there's a cutoff at four. And then from about five to 10, there's a bunch of freshmen who are in another tier, which are the five guards. The Kell Brown from Louisville, Darius A. Cuff from Arkansas, Keith Logger from Illinois, Bradenbury from Arizona, Kingston Fleming from Houston, and then Nate Amet, who's a big, rangey wing from Tennessee. That's probably the top 10 in the draft. So, you know, that's where we, like we talked about the other day with the Clippers. Like, will the Clippers take another guard at five when they've got Darius Garland? Would they sort of move into Darius Garland? Like, what would they do? The Nets obviously drafted a bunch of ballhandlers. Last year, are they going to take another guard at six? Would they do something else? So there's a bunch of stuff in there that's interesting. But yeah, like those top 14s that moved up, seems very likely to take their four guys. And I have no actual reporting knowledge of this, but I feel pretty confident that if Cameron Boosers on the board at number three, he will not be going past that climb and the Memphis Grizzlies who have typically drafted off the model. And Cameron Boosers basically broke all the models this year and would be a perfect fit with Zach Eade. Climen likes Duke guys. He is a dukey. He is a dukey. But he also would be a great fit with Zach Eade. I mean, it would make a lot of sense on a lot of levels. So, but yeah, I mean, it's going to be an interesting draft and there's a lot of moving parts and there's going to be a lot of stuff floating around for the next 40 days or so. You know, the sentiment that I have heard is that Washington is sending out the message that they're willing to deal, but that if they do a deal, people think it will most likely not be with Utah. But of course, there's a long time between now and then. I feel pretty confident the Wizards are going to pick somebody at number one and that's one scott. There were some, oh, how do I want to say this? Feathers ruffled in Salt Lake City about perceived shenanigans with Ace Bailey in the pre-draft process last year that they thought maybe there were some shenanigans with the Wizards who signed a two-way player named Sharif Cooper, who's Omar Cooper's son. Anyways, so I don't know if those guys are going out to lunch or anything. By the way, in terms of the history of the number one pick being traded, if you remove Andrew Wiggins, who was traded in August as part of the Kevin Love thing, it wasn't traded on, you know, in or around the draft. Well, I'm just, it was traded, you know, I just want to remove that. I don't know what you mean. Yeah. Since 1980, it's happened four times. Okay. Weber? Yes, 1993. Weber for Penny Hardaway. Okay. You mentioned Tatum. What were the other ones? Well, Markel Fultz for Tatum, as you said. And then the other one, 1980, Joe Barry Carroll was traded from the Pistons of the Warriors. And in 1986, the 76ers traded Brad Doherty to the Cavs. In a cost-cutting move, if I, somebody brought that up recently. They did multiple crazy cost-cutting moves that year at the draft. That was one of them. So anyway, you know, every year there's some level discussion about the number one pick being traded. It is quite rare for it to happen. And after Washington spent years trying to be in a position to have the number one pick in this kind of draft, I feel pretty confident they're going to take somebody at number one. And I don't think it's, like I said, I don't think it's a slam dunk that it's the Bansa. My guess is that it will be him. But I could see it going either way. And it'll be interesting to see how the process shakes out. Absolutely. All right. We're going to call it really tonight because it's very rare for this situation. Thank you very much to our producers, Miles Tucker, Mark and Jackson. Thank you so much. I know. I'm a low. We do it at a reasonable hour. We get some people on the feet. Thank you very much to McMan and Bon Temps. Thank you very much for watching, listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week. Adios amigos.