Prayer > ChatGPT: Choosing What Shapes Your Life | Sadie Robertson Huff | Bobby Gruenewald

What is up everybody? Happy Wednesday. I hope you're having a great week, but per usual it is about to get so much better. We are going to have such an incredible episode today and we're actually celebrating something huge. If you have the YouVersion Bible app on your phone, which I hope you do, if you don't, you're about to feel really left out when I tell you that 1 billion people just about have the YouVersion Bible app on their phone. If you're not one of those 1 billion, now is the time to do it. We're celebrating that today with the founder of the YouVersion Bible app. We have Bobby Grunwald on the podcast and I am so excited to get to chat with you about the whole story and just celebrating this awesome moment. Bobby, welcome to the One That's Good podcast. Thank you. Thank you, Sadie, for having me. I'm so glad to be here and congratulations also on your new edition. Thank you. Yes, we got to see you back in April and it was super cool. You were sharing the whole story of how the Bible app started and what you are celebrating and I was like, I've got to get him on the podcast and I was like, I want you to come to the podcast, but I'm about to have a baby. I'm super grateful this worked out. Bobby, you might not be prepared for this question and if you're not, I'm so sorry this is going to come out of left field, but one question that on the One That's Good podcast, I ask every one of our guests to get started is what is the best piece of advice you've ever been given? Now, I know that's loaded, but if you can think of some good advice someone gave you, give it back to us. I don't know if it's the best advice I've been given, but it's the first advice that came to mind when you asked that question. Pastor Craig, it's actually the advice I got from Pastor Craig that he got from somebody else and the advice was that we tend to overestimate what we can do in the short term, but we grossly underestimate what God can do with a lifetime of faithfulness. I think in a lot of times, I need to hear that sometimes because I'm just striving to achieve something and focused on it and I just need to win the long game basically and be consistent and faithful over time. The other thing that came to mind when you ask that question is most of the advice I feel like I've gotten, I've seen it lived and not spoken. It's like it's come through examples like the people in my life and the way that even I just mentioned Pastor Craig, but the way he is a husband and the way I get to watch him be a husband to Amy is like an awesome example and I feel like it's like living advice. I get to just watch it happen. There's a guy named Steve Bailey that was a guy that saw me as an entrepreneur before I saw myself as an entrepreneur and I watched him lead his business with Christian values. He was a car dealer, but he was so good at what he did and such an incredible example. It was not the words he said, it was literally just like how he did it that became advice I live by. Anyway, that's my quick answer. I gave you more than one. No, I love that so much and that is so real. One time my mom was offended because someone asked like what's some of the best piece of advice your mom has given you and I don't know why it was like we went blank, all the kids were like trying to think and she's like, what? Do y'all remember? Like I used to say this and I always say this and it's funny that we couldn't remember that because if I think about the most influential person in my life for good, it is my mom. I mean, she is just a rock star. I respect her so much. I learn from her so much. I've definitely learned the most from her in life, not just because she's my mom, but because of how she has been my mom because of how I've seen her, you know, as a wife, as a mom, as someone who works and runs a business and started something new. Like I've learned so much from her, but it's hard to kind of think about the specific things, you know, that maybe she said here and there. But yeah, just her life is something that I want to model. And I love that you said the long term because I think a lot of times young people, which are podcasts, primarily like 20 year olds to 30 year olds, we don't always think about that. We recently had my great grandma on the podcast and her friends, and they're all in their 80s and 90s. And I was laughing thinking this is such a different podcast than like what most young people's podcasts sound like. It's not clickbaity. It's not, you know, those little pockets that sound good or jump at you. It was actually the most relaxed and peaceful. But I was like, but I want to give people a vision of the long run, you know, like what do you what is success in the long run? What does it look like when you're 94 and you say, this is what I would say to live a good life. And so I love that you said that and get people thinking about that. That's a beautiful piece of advice. Like I said, with with you starting the Bible app, you know, people are probably so curious about that because so many people have this, but they don't know how it got started. And it's such a cool story. I would love for you to just kind of take us back to the beginning of how this idea became what it is today with almost, or maybe you'll already have hit a billion downloads at this point. Yeah, no, I am happy to share it's a total God story. It's not not something any of us can take credit for. My background really quick was in tech. I mean, I was actually degrees, my degrees in finance, but I became an entrepreneur when I was in college and the tech space. And I thought this is what God designed me to do. I was like 23 years old had started and sold a couple of companies. And instead, God led me on to staff at our church. It was our local church and we loved it. And Pastor Craig Groschell started it. And we were it's called Life Church here in Oklahoma City. And so I fell in love with the church. I had an opportunity to come on the team. Felt like it was God's direction, but I didn't really know why. And looking back on it, he'd kind of given me all these unique experiences that let me do today what he created me to do every day. But the U-Vers story started back in 2006. It was in the O'Hare Airport in Chicago. I was in one of those long TSA lines where like wraps around the corner and it was before they had pre-check and things that like let you go through faster. And for whatever reason that day in this really long line, I would normally be crazy frustrated. But for that particular day, I was just asking myself this question. It's like, I wonder if there's a way to use technology to help me read the Bible more consistently. I was on staff at the church. I felt like I was not consistently in the word, like the way that I thought I should be and wanted to be. You can make a lot of excuses as to why. And I know some people that are watching or listening might be like, oh, that's, you know, just got to have discipline to do it. And you got to, you know, make sure you have a rhythm to it. And I knew all that. But for whatever reason, it wasn't something that was connected to my everyday life. I wanted to be. So there in the line, I had this idea for a website, this predated apps and the app store and all that. This is before all that. And the idea for the website was it had kind of this way for you to take any type of media, any YouTube video, any flicker photo, flickers and used to be a photo site and attach it to any part of scripture. So you could say, this is how this scripture relates to my life. I want to show what it looks like. And that was kind of the original idea. I came up with a name at the airport. Some people say where the name come from. It was like just the best name that I came up with, like the 800 feet between the security line and the gate. And I registered the domain name, uversion.com and got on the airplane that day and then started to talk to people about it and just said, here's the idea. Here's what I'm thinking. Now, I have lots of ideas, but that doesn't mean they're all ones that we're going to do and are going to try. I talked to Pastor Craig, talked to the other leaders at the church and just said, here's kind of what I'm thinking. They liked it and thought we should try it. But then we had all kinds of obstacles that we kind of ran into immediately. The first obstacle is one that I just did not understand or see coming, which was that people actually own the Bible text. I kind of thought the Bible is free. Like it's been a bit for thousands of years. Obviously, people put care into translating the Bible and some of these, some companies and even not-for-profits, spend millions of dollars carefully getting all the right scholars and all the right people involved. And so it makes total sense that they would get royalties at that time from selling the Bible and putting it in print Bibles and all that. They'd get royalties that would help them pay for the translation work that they did. And so I just didn't know that. So the first thing I need to do is actually get permission from these publishers. And in a way that only God could kind of do it, we had no relationships with any publishers. We had no connections. I literally knew no one. And if you try calling the front desk of like Harper Collins or somebody, one of these big companies and tell them that you want a free license to their Bible, they don't have a place they like to send you. No one answers and no one wants to talk to you. So anyway, what I did though is I decided I was going to just announce this website on a blog that Pastor Craig and I had. And it was a lot of pastors and church leaders that would follow this blog. And so I put together a blog post and had a picture like we had a designer that just kind of mocked up what the website was going to look like. And we put the picture on the blog post. The team was like, what are you doing right in this blog post is like, yeah, we're going to just tell people we're launching the website. And I go, but we don't have anybody to work on it. We don't have a permission. We don't have, we really don't have anything that you would need to build this website. And I'm telling the team we're going to launch it in September of 2007. It was like three months away from the one I put the blog post out. And I said, well, this is how you do it. You just like tell people it's coming and then you go do it. I remember whenever we started low and I had all the what ifs, what if I fail, what if it isn't where I need to be. And looking back, I can see so clearly that God had his hand in the whole thing. Starting something new is exciting, but it's also very scary. And that's why I'm thankful for Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US from massive brands to tiny startups. Team low starts on Shopify every single day for managing inventory and staying on top of orders. It just works. You can build a beautiful online store with templates that actually match your vibe. And their AI tools are game changers. They help write product descriptions, page headlines, even enhance product photos, plus everything's in one place. So inventory, payments, analytics, and they have a 24 seven customer support. It really feels like you have a built in business partner. I think it's so amazing for anyone starting out a business. This is the place to do it. Like I said, we do it for low. Duck commander does it. It's just honestly very simple and does everything for you. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash woe. Go to Shopify.com slash woe again that Shopify.com slash woe. Idle money lies in your current account picking crumbs out of its belly button wondering, should I eat them? But when you start investing with Monzo, your money's always busy. It turns on regular investments, invests your spare change and tops up your stocks and shares. Ise. It even helps you make sense of risk and return. Monzo, the bank that gets your money moving. You could get back less than you invest. Monzo current account required UK residents 18 plus TCCs apply. We posted the blog post and little did I know God used that blog post. There's a guy in Florida that saw it. I'd never met this guy before, but he wanted to talk to me about it. So I told him about the idea. He then called a friend of his in Oklahoma City. We got a name, Mark Green, and told Mark about this idea. Mark Green is one of the family members of Hobby Lobby, and he also owned a chain of Christian bookstores called Mardell. Mard reached out to me. I knew of Mark Green, but I'd never met Mark Green before, and he wanted to hear about this idea. He said, how can I help? I said, well, the first problem is we don't have permission for anyone to use a Bible text. He's like, I actually buy a lot of Bibles from all these publishers. I can make an introduction. I can't promise you anything, but I'll introduce you. He sat and wrote emails and introduced me to the CEOs of every one of these companies, with all the major Bible translations. Of course, that ultimately led to us having permission from one or two of them to be able to get started. But if you think about it, the perfect person in the entire world to introduce me to all the right people lived in my town. I didn't know him, but God obviously knew that he was there. That blog post was like a step of faith that God met with his faithfulness. We just stepped out and said, we're going to do it, we're committed to do it, and almost instantly, God provided the very first thing we needed to be able to make it happen. Fast forward, we launched the website 2007. Unfortunately, and maybe actually fortunately, the website failed. It actually didn't work. We worked really hard to build it. We obviously overcame all these obstacles and began to realize that it didn't change how I read the Bible. I mean, I was forcing myself to use the website. It wasn't a natural thing. Other people would come to it, but they weren't coming back. In December of that year, I was like, look, we need to shut it down. We're going to learn from failure, but we can't just spend energy on something that's not working. We need to put our energy behind something that can work. But in the process of talking about why it failed, we thought, we really should try putting on a mobile device. At that time, it predated iPhones. The popular smartphone was called a Blackberry. Again, probably a lot of people that are listening to this have no idea what a Blackberry was, but it was a little smartphone. Probably remember your parents. Yeah. I remember my dad had a Blackberry. Yeah. Brickbreaker. Was that what it was called? Like the game? Oh, yeah. Yeah. What was it called? Yeah, you're right. On the Blackberry. I remember my dad did not want to get an iPhone because he had such a high score on Brickbreaker. That was pretty funny. That's funny though. It had a physical keyboard on it. It was very popular. They called them Crackberries because they were really addictive. It was the first time you could answer your email on your phone and messaging and all that. Anyway, we designed it for a Blackberry and we were really surprised, but it really worked. It was natural how you had engaged with Scripture, places you hadn't before. It was so simple that you would think it would not work, but it worked. That was early 2008. Then Steve Jobs announced that he was creating something called an App Store and you're going to be able to build apps for the iPhone. We thought, we should try to build an app for the iPhone. Based on what we see happening on Blackberry, well, none of us knew how to build an app. I'm not an engineer. I don't write code. Most people presume that I'm the person that wrote the Bible app or wrote the code. I'm not that at all. I just have ideas. We found a 19-year-old on our team who loved Apple. Those are the only two things you had to have back then to build an app because no one knew how to build apps. This kid who was awesome, we worked part-time in nights and weekends working to build this app and submitted it to Apple. I think we submitted to them in June of 2008 and then the App Store launched in July of 2008. We were blown away because the very first day the App Store launched, the Bible app was there, the very first day. There was only 200 free apps that were available. Today you go to the App Store, there's like millions of apps. That day, we had the attention of everybody that had an iPhone because they were looking through the App Store and there was a Bible and there weren't that many apps to even look at. We saw 83,000 people installed on the first weekend and just blew our minds. We couldn't believe that God did that. We knew it was a God thing because it didn't make any sense otherwise. This is just like this side project kind of thing. That's how it started. It's so cool. It reminds me of, in some sense, Noah when he started building the ark before it ever rained and just how crazy that must have felt and looked for him to be building a boat. There's no rain coming and yet then obviously when it did rain, so thankful you built the boat whenever God said build the boat. It's like you building that website. It didn't seem to make sense at first because it's like, okay, well that didn't really work and what was this really for? But then like to keep going and you didn't know that there was even going to be an option for it to be on a mobile app the way it was because that wasn't even there yet. Apps weren't even there yet. Then all of a sudden here there's an iPhone and an app store and y'all already have everything you need to launch this Bible app because of the years of work beforehand. It's so God. It's so who God is. It's 100% God. You're absolutely right. I'm glad you drew that out because I think that's something that I think about a lot. It's like everything we needed to be in position for that moment we had because God had kind of taken us on this journey and all the journey because of the failure, the journey didn't make sense. Like you're looking at going, God, why did you tell us to do this and why did you help us overcome these obstacles if it wasn't going to work? It was because he knew obviously something we didn't know and he knew he had to put us in that position to be ready to be able to be a part of that. So that's how it started but I'll be honest, I still even at that moment seeing God do that still did not have the faith to believe that we'd be celebrating what we're celebrating today because it just seemed like, well, this is a really cool moment but everything kind of has a moment and then it stops. But in this particular case, it hasn't stopped. Like it's been this kind of journey we've been on where what we're experiencing today is the absolute biggest growth we've ever seen in the 17 years that we've been doing it and we're celebrating a billion installs of the Bible app, which I don't know, it's a bit mind-blowing but it's a total God story. We know it's not us for sure. He could have chosen a lot smarter people and a lot of other places to do it and if he had chosen some people in Silicon Valley, I think the world would have looked on and said, this makes sense. Those guys in Silicon Valley know how to grow things to a billion people or even the publishers in New York, people would have said that makes sense. They have a lot of money and a lot of resources. It makes a lot of sense but he chose a church in Oklahoma to do it and I think there's only one reason that is that it's impossible for us to take credit. Like it doesn't make any sense except for being him and so anyway, it's been such an amazing journey. That's so good. That's so cool. Why do you think now is like the most growth you've seen just based off what's happened in the world? I've even heard you say, this is one of the most exciting times to be a believer and we got to connect at illumination so we're also seeing the Bible being translated at such a rapid pace to all of these different languages and people groups that haven't been reached yet. It is a really exciting time but I feel like every day person walking around listening to this podcast is like, why is this time so exciting? What is happening? What is God doing that we're missing? Why do you think it is happening so fast right now? I don't know the answer entirely. I just know what we're witnessing and what we're seeing happen. You've probably seen the stats or maybe people have heard the stats but Gen Z is connecting with scripture at numbers that people just have not seen in the previous generation. Print Bible sales are up as well and we love Bible engagement no matter what the format is so most people might presume we want it to happen digitally. It's like, no, I just wanted to read the Bible more consistently and technology was a tool and it is helping people but people are connecting with Print Bible sales as well. It's happening in parts of the world that are considered post-Christian where the church has struggled for maybe decades or maybe even centuries in some cases. I've been on a decline and so there's definitely this revival that's happening globally and you're watching it happen in college campuses and obviously you've been a witness to it here in the United States as well. So there's this momentum, this building. I do think there's some factors that are contributing to it. I mean, I do think AI is a component of what's causing it to happen right now in a way that maybe people might not expect but it's different for this generation and for us today than it was 10 years ago or five years ago in that we actually have to question the veracity or the truth and almost everything that we consume. Things that look real aren't real and that's unusual. That's like not a normal thing that we've had to do. I mean, there's always been untruthful things but never at the level where they look so believable, they look so trustworthy and they're completely false and completely not true. So the kind of a positive consequence of that, if there is a, if you could call it a positive consequence, is I think people are hungry for truth. They're hungry for anything that can, they can count on that is stable, that is not sort of built on that foundation. Yeah. I can attest to that. If that's the case, I think the Bible is really built for this moment. I mean, like God's word is designed, it's like the antidote to the problem that we have. So that's what gets me excited because I feel like everyone rightfully is kind of concerned about those challenges in the moment they're in. But I feel like the Bible is like the answer to it. Like all of a sudden it's going to get people, it is getting people interested in exploring, like what is this thing called the Bible? What is God's word? Like the people call God's word, what does that mean? And is it a source of truth I can trust? And can I find answers because I cannot trust any of the other answers that I get. So, but this thing has existed for thousands of years. It has moved carefully from generation to generation, where the translation work we're just talking about is, I mean, there's such care that's gone into every word and every punctuation mark. It's not something that got generated by a chatbot. It was something that's been carefully translated. So, it can be relied upon. In fact, here in November at the Museum of the Bible, they have the Dead Sea Scrolls on display. And you can go and see that thousands of years ago, this artifact, the words on it are consistent with the words that we actually see in our translations today. Obviously, it's a different language. But when you look at kind of the meaning and the translation of the words, it's the same. And so, there's really nothing else like that, you know, that we can rely on. So, I think that's one of the factors that we see happening. There's also kind of a convergence of stuff happening with technology. If you see like what Elon's doing and Starlink and high-speed internet that's sort of covering the entire globe, you can take a small little dish in a solar panel into the most remote part of the world, and you can be connected with technology quickly. And that's happening. The Bible is being translated like you just mentioned in these languages at a pace that we've not ever seen before, partly because of technology, but mostly just because of cooperation and coordination. So, you kind of see what's God doing? You know, God's getting all these languages finished, Bible translating these new languages. He's creating the pathways for the Bible to actually get to all these places, you know, in the world like you've never seen before. And he's creating a hunger in a generation for truth, which is making people open to the Bible that have never been open to the Bible before. So, it just feels like it's a big setup for something pretty cool. It does. It really does. It's really cool how you explain that because on one hand, AI has caused this problem in a sense of you don't know what's real and you don't know what's true. And then on the other hand, AI has also rapidly helped the situation by giving, you know, the tools to... So, it's interesting how there is so much good and also so much potential for bad. And I think about that with the truth. I mean, we were talking about this and even my mom and grandmother were speaking this into my life because they, you know, have always spoken into our life and helped us so much. But now in this season of motherhood, they've just been saying, man, y'all have it really a lot harder in some sense than we did because we didn't have all of this information coming at us. So, you know, we weren't overthinking every little thing we did. Whereas for us, it's like there's so much information out there. And it's like, you know, and it always changes. Like for them, it was the best to put your baby to sleep on their belly, you know, and now it's like, don't ever let them sleep on their stomach. And it's like, okay, so do I need to warm the bottle? But how are you going to warm the bottle? And is it vaccine or no vaccine? Can you take Tylenol? Can you not take Tylenol? It's like, there's so much stuff. And so like as a mom, you're questioning every single thing because there's so much information out there. And then there's so much false information out there and things that look real that aren't real. And for me, I was just like, okay, I got to like, tune that out. Like that is not what's going to teach me how to pair it. ChatGPT is not what's going to teach me how to pair it. Like the Holy Spirit is my counselor, the Word of God, you know, God knit my baby together in my womb. And He allowed me to be their mother until I have to lean in to the Word of God truly to be like a stable mom who feels confident, just a confident mom. And the choices that I'm making for my kids. And I think for everybody, whatever age you are, whether it's high school, college, motherhood, singleness, moving somewhere, whatever it is, like there's this tendency to want to go to the internet to help you navigate how to go through life based off how everybody else is doing it or what chat says or all the stuff. And not that there's not a place for that. That can be, some of those voices can be good, but that cannot be the driving force of your life or you will be confused and it will leave you anxious and even depressed in some sense. And so for me, like I find myself, if you're not constantly in the Word or constantly staying disciplined, like you said, you just naturally gravitate to the advice of the world or the ways of the world. But the words is don't be transformed, you know, don't, sorry, conform to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. And so I do think to your point, like the Bible is so necessary. It's always been, but the fact that we have something that is true, that has been the same from beginning to end, that he is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. And this word that was written so many years ago, thousands of years ago, still holds true, still stands true. Like you can still read it and it's so applicable to your life today. You can read it and it's still the same hope of heaven. And none of that is changing is like a breath of life in a world that's constantly changing with different advice, different opinions, different voices, all the different things. And so for me, yes, that is like my stability, that is my peace, that is where my confidence is found. And so I think you're absolutely right. I'm interested to hear too, just with you being a tech guy and also appreciating tech for what it is. I love how you said, you know, you can trust us, it's not some chat bot and all this stuff. When using AI with what you are doing, if you do, like what does that look like? How do you, how do you not be afraid of technology? Because I do think sometimes in the church, people are hesitant towards like technology in the sense that like, even when the Bible came out, remember everybody's like, not everybody, but a lot of people are like, you know, are you just reading on your phone or like, do you have the word of God, like the print? It's almost like that's a negative thing. It's not a negative thing, but they paint it like that. Or even with chat GPT, it's like, there's something good in that, but people are like, no, if you're a believer, like you can't use this, like, how do you find that balance of having to sermon and doing things, I guess, using it in the balanced way that's actually helpful and beneficial and not hurtful? Yeah, no, that's a really good question. So, you know, I think first thing I would say is, you know, technology is a tool and tool, it can be used for good and it can be used for evil. It can be used in healthy ways and it can be used in ways that are not healthy. You've just even talked about some, you know, kind of what you're just describing there and the types of negative things that it can, it can cause. And you do need discernment and man, it's really hard, you know, sometimes to kind of navigate what we, what you should do. I've been a big proponent for a long time of saying, we've got to use these tools for good, like we really need to use these tools in a way that can advance the kingdom. And that's why I've pretty much spent my entire life, you know, trying to do. And the Bible app is an example of where I feel like we've successfully done that or seen God use that as a tool. We said, look, let's figure how we can use technology to take advantage of some of the unique attributes about technology that could help you form a positive habit around scripture. The ways that people can be reminded about being in the Word maybe when they forgot to this morning. And your print Bible has a tough time reminding you, you know, sometimes, but we have the ability of technology to be able to do that. So we want to take advantage of all those things. AI is really, really interesting though, because because I think there's a pretty big gap right now between what the promise of AI is and what actually AI does, you know, today. And we hear a lot about the promise of AI, everything that it's going to do. But I don't know that we're always aware of the current limitations, you know, of the technology. And because of that, there's a bit, you know, we have to be a thoughtful, you know, somewhat cautious or used to sermon, as you were saying earlier, to try to say, okay, well, it's not normally do we have technology that is maybe not accurate a significant amount of the time, but seems to be accurate 100% of the time. Because that's sort of the nature of some of the way AI works. It seems like a very believable answer that's completely not true. And but it may be true most of the time, you know, so then you're like, go, how do I know because I'm used to not having something that that is not that type of technology. I think it's probably just people people having the awareness that this is a time that you just need to be thoughtful about how you use it. Not everything just simply because it's new needs to be used and not everything or almost everything needs to have boundaries, you know, on it. And even you just mentioned kind of in the way you were talking, I thought it was like perfect. It's like, there comes a point, it's like, I need to have a time where I don't have the noise of all that in my life. And if you if people listening don't have that time, like don't have a place where the technology isn't controlling, you know, they're every moment of their life, then that's not a good thing. That's not a healthy thing, you know, for them. We're not we as human beings aren't designed, you know, for that. So you want to start a business, you might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but you don't. You just need GoDaddy Aero. I'm Walton Goggins. And as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing. GoDaddy Aero uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. Get started at godaddy.com slash aero. That's godaddy.com slash a i r o. And so we at you version, we've been very thoughtful. We use tech, we use AI in many different ways. And without getting kind of super technical about it, there's already things in our app that AI is kind of helping make better, because we're able to use it kind of in the background. But what we've not done and quite intentionally, we've not had an open-ended chatbot conversation with the Bible. It's not because we couldn't do it. It's not because the technology is not there to go and make it available. We could have done it three years ago when it first came out. But I said no, because I really felt a check that it wasn't the right thing for us to do. Some of it is around safety. We have people that turn to the Bible app every day that are hurting, that are going through deep depression, that are suicidal, and they're looking for answers. And it's just not responsible to hand them over to a chatbot to have those conversations, because it's not equipped to do that effectively. And we're better off pointing them to resources and pointing them to scripture and not doing that through a chat conversation. And then the other side of it is right now, most people don't know this, but chatbots actually don't quote scripture accurately. Most the best chatbots that are out there, the best chat interfaces miss quote scripture at least 15% of the time, and some of them as much as 40% of the time. But it looks like it's real. It looks like it's exactly right. But if you don't have every word of scripture memorized already, you don't have a way to know that it's not, unless you go and check it. Every time. And part of the reason is how the technology works. It's been trained on Reddit. It's been trained on X or on social media. And so if you could just take all the times that people might have misquoted scripture out there and all the times that these words kind of go seem like they go together, that's sort of how it gets its answers and how it derives the response. So it sounds like I'm anti-AI and the truth is I'm not anti-AI at all. I'm just thoughtful about the limitations that it has. And I realize though, it's a challenge because I happen to know quite a bit more about it than some people do. And I would just say it's probably wise with anything that's new to kind of ask like, how could this be used to help advance a gospel? How can this be used in a positive way? I think that'll probably yield the right answers. But we also just have to understand the technology the best that we can. And seek to do that. I think I want to be a lifetime learner. So no matter how old I get, which I'm starting to get old now, Sadie, but no matter how old I get, I used to be the young guy in every room. I was literally like the youngest person. And I had this kind of thing where I got into rooms that I should never have been in because I was like 24, 25 years old. And now I'm becoming the person that's the old guy in the room. But I'm committed also to being a lifetime learner. And I think that sometimes that tension of resistance around new technology kind of comes because we sometimes lack the humility that we need as we get older to just say, I want to be in posture of learning, not being the expert, but we're kind of, as you get older, you kind of think you're the expert and want to become the expert. It's something and so I've tried to always find new things I can learn. I became a pilot five years ago. And I wanted to take on a challenge and learn something new. But I've committed, even with new technologies that come out, it's like not just because I'm involved in technology, but even if I wasn't, I would want to just spend time learning it and spend time understanding it and finding out how I can use it. But I do think that requires humility because it's just so easy to feel like I should be able to know all the right things. I do know all the right things. And you'd think that way. So my son who's 17, he is like an expert at this AI stuff. And I talked to him, in fact, last night, I probably talked to him for an hour and a half or two hours last night. And it's been great because I'm learning from my son. And he's teaching me just like some of the very technical things about it. And I'm able to ask him questions and learn, which is awesome as a father to be able to just have time to be able to do something like that. But it's also something I think we should just model in terms of how we learn. And I think that'll keep us from having that just general resistance to change that happens because we have this posture of saying, how do we do it? But you still always have to be wise because it really can be used in ways that aren't great and aren't healthy. It's true. It's so good. It's such good advice. I just started an Instagram account for my 94 year old great grandmother. But she's like at first it was like me doing it and then she wanted to learn how to do it herself. So it was so cool. I set up the tripod at her house, taught her how to log in, how to respond to people, all this stuff. And I just have been watching her take off with it and have so much fun. And I was telling her, I just think it's so cool that you are willing to learn that. I could have done it for you, but I love that you are doing it for yourself and learn that because not every older person takes the time to understand social media and what the end, they don't have to. They don't want to. But I feel like it keeps her so, you know, it gives her just even more excitement for her days, you know, because she's like, oh, wow, like this is even, this is fun. Like now I have something to look forward to. And it's a way to connect with my granddaughter, my great granddaughter. And it's a way that I can be an inspiration to the world. And I'm like, even at 94, like you're never too old to start something new. And like that is so cool. And you're never too young to start something like you said, you were the young guy for so long. And that was me. And it still is me. I mean, I'm only 28. But what's really funny, I was like preaching at something recently with college students and have always like been in the room with college students, high schoolers, and also in rooms with a lot of people that are a lot older than me and whatnot. But it was funny because I was going in it and I was giving these examples and I got a stage and one of my friends like, hey, a little, little tweak for the next time. All of your examples were about motherhood and you're speaking to college students. And I was like, oh, like, that's so funny because I've been in that setting for so long with college students. I've been the young person. And now I'm a mom. But I'm like, okay, I need to think about that, you know, because sometimes you just don't realize like, oh, I'm in a new stage of life. This is crazy because life just happens and you're not really thinking about it like that. So that was kind of funny to me. But I love everything you just said about the guard, the guard rails and the boundaries. And I think it's so cool to hear someone who does know a lot more about it, not be against it, but also just say, hey, use wisdom. Because for me personally, like, I don't know much about technology. I'm just like your, your average girl who has chat GBT on my phone. So I can speak into it from that perspective of what I've seen is that it has been a helpful tool for me. I love how you say it is a tool. That is what it is. It can be helpful for me whenever I'm studying the Bible, whenever I say, hey, give me places that Peter is mentioned so I can go as I'm studying the life of Peter and read all these different places and parts that I might have missed, you know, that I might not have thought of that reminds me of that or hey, as sometimes I'll say like the scripture on this, give me some context. And again, you have to check it's not always accurate. But that has been really helpful for me where it has gone not healthy for me. I'm not going to say not helpful because it feels helpful but not healthy is whenever I use it for like reassurance or to give me a piece or like a guide in the sense of like health concern or like something with my kids or whatnot. Not that it can't give good advice. It's just that I don't need to use that for like my assurance or my peace or my comforter because that's what the Holy Spirit does. That's what God does. And I think unintentionally and instead of taking that time to pray through things, we go to chat for those things because with chat you get a faster answer. You get a right now this is what you do and this is how you do it. And with prayer sometimes it takes a little longer. You get a spirit check. You need to ask the Holy Spirit. You're going to have to listen and wait. But I was thinking about this this morning. It's funny we're talking about this. Those that wait on the Lord show renew their strength. They show rise up on wings like eagles and sword. They should walk and not faint. They should run and not grow weary. And I was like, okay, there is something to waiting like waiting renews your strength when you wait upon the Lord. That's whenever like you walk and you don't grow weary. You know what I was thinking about with chat? It's like, okay, I get this fast answer and I might feel like assured in the moment, but then I don't actually have peace. It's like a false sense of assurance, a false sense of peace sometimes because it's not necessarily not always necessarily right. And so I'm not going to say it's not helpful, but I don't know that it's always healthy. And I do think it can unintentionally replace prayer in your life and replace the need for the Holy Spirit or God, the, the, you think the need for the Holy Spirit and God, because you're getting these fast answers that make you feel okay in those moments of panic or okay in those moments of questioning or okay in those moments of doubt. And so for me, I'm just navigating it as a normal person. I don't know if that's helpful for the people to hear, but that's something I've had to check in my spirit. Like, okay, this doesn't need to ever replace my prayer time. This cannot, this doesn't need, it cannot replace my prayer time. It cannot replace the Holy Spirit. And if I'm not careful, because it's so easy and accessible, it can become that if I'm not guarding my heart. Absolutely. No, it is, it's technology. It's not God. And it's definitely not the Holy Spirit. And, but you're right. It can be, it can be convincing or even reassuring like you're talking about, which is what's unique about the technology. It's part of what makes it amazing and, and, and kind of cool, but it's also what makes it, you know, something that we have to kind of use a lot of wisdom around. Because we're, you know, we're, we're relational people. And it talks to you so personal. That's the weird thing. Yeah. When you have a technology that's very relational, you can kind of mistake it, you know, for something that's not. So I think sometimes it's just keeping that perspective. There was, somebody sent me something yesterday, there's a law I think in California that they're trying to pass. And one of the provisions of it is that they want the chatbots to tell you that it's AI and not a person, and they want you to, them to remind you of it every three hours of use. Because it's obviously become a concern that people lose sight or lose track of it not being a real person. And they actually then begin to take on those attributes. And of course, the same would be true if you were using it, like you're just mentioning where like, this is the, this is like God speaking to me, or I'm getting wisdom about a decision that I need to make. You're right. The instant answer for it just is pretty attractive, the fact that you can kind of get something quickly. But I love, I love you using the verse there about waiting. I'm the type of person that likes to go fast, like everything in my life has to move faster than it actually moves. And I'm just always a bit impatient. One of the things that I realized when I got to, I don't know when I became an old person, Sadie, but it happened somewhere. It was older than 28, but I'm not yet 50. But somewhere in there is when it happened. And actually, I know when it happened, when it happened was I was doing a Q&A one day with a group and I was on stage. And then someone asked the question, how do you learn from younger people? Like how do you, you know, and they asked that, they want to know like, how do I make sure I'm getting perspectives from young people in my life? And that was the moment that I realized I was the old person because I was, I was not the person that they were asking me about how I do that. And so, but one of the questions I do get is like, what advice would I give my the 20 year old version of myself? That's literally was going to be my next question. I love that. My, my answer, I've thought about that a lot of my answers always the same, which is I would tell the 20 year old version of me, absolutely nothing. Because I know that if I had told the 20 year old version of me, like what was coming, like what I get to do today, that version of me would have wanted to take a shortcut, would have wanted to kind of just go straight for what I'm doing today. But yet God wanted me to actually go on the journey that I was on because he wanted to teach me things that I needed to learn. And I so much wanted to prove that I could do things that others thought I was too young to do. I wanted to like prove that I could be the first to do this or the best at this. And so I needed to actually go through the failures. I needed to go through the parts that were hard. I needed to go through the times where I did what I thought God wanted me to do, but I didn't understand why. And I needed to like have the waiting like you're talking about where it felt like I want an answer now, but I had to wait for an answer or maybe even I'm still waiting for an answer, you know, on it. And those, all of those things are like what God used to shape me and to be able to do what I do today. And I just know that if I gave, it'd be really hard for me to give any advice to the 20 year old version of me and have him not take it and just go the wrong direction with it. And so I guess the summary of all that is my advice is to actually really recognize the sort of step by step, day by day nature of what a relationship with Jesus is like all about. And how that being in tune with the Holy Spirit, just like you mentioned, the not chat GPT version of the Holy Spirit, is actually is such important advice. And it seems so frustrating for some people because it seems so slow and it seems so, it seems so in the moment, which is people, people's minds are often in the future and they're not like in the moment. And, and I think that that's just really, really important. And looking back on it, I just, I wouldn't trade any of it, all the bad parts and the good parts. Yep, that's good. Oh, I love that so much. I feel like the Lord is teaching me that right now because, you know, you look back and like you regret things or like, Oh, why did that happen? Why did that happen? And then you get these moments every now and then to see like, Oh, wow, if that wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't have met that person or I wouldn't have had this idea or this wouldn't have, you know, wouldn't have worked out the way that it did. And, and really sitting here now, I wouldn't change anything because I'm so grateful for where I'm at and what I've learned and who I am and the family that I have. And we actually just had a conversation about that last night as a family. We were looking back at, we had like a prayer night last night as a family was very, very powerful. And we just saw the thread of God's faithfulness so beautifully as we just begin to tell stories. And we were talking about some of the hard things that happened years ago. And we were like, do you realize if that wouldn't have happened though, we would literally not be sitting here right now having this conversation. And those are the moments you just see like, okay, wow, God, you heard me in that space, you know, you were with me in that space. It was hard and it was confusing, but you never left and you had a plan and you got to remind yourself of those things sometimes, especially when you're going through it to realize, okay, one day God, I'll look back and I might get to see the thread of your faithfulness and this and I will because that's who you are. And so I love that. I want to talk about because I know, like we said, we're celebrating one billion downloads and there is a global Bible month thing happening. How can everybody else get involved? How can we be a part of what God's doing on the you version Bible up? Yeah, absolutely. So normally we're terrible about celebrating things. Like that's just kind of not been a good thing for us. When we did half a billion, the milestone for half a billion, I think I had a dinner with 30 people. That was like our big party to celebrate half a billion. I felt like, and I really felt like this is God's prompting on this. I felt like we really needed to use this moment to celebrate the Bible and to help the whole world see that God's word is alive. And our milestone is literally just one data point. I mentioned kind of several others of like these incredible things that he's doing globally. And so we just said, let's make November a global Bible month that we're going to celebrate the milestone on a big arena event that we're doing in the middle of November. And it'll be in broadcasts in the app and on TV. And it'll be a moment to really celebrate the Bible. But let's make the whole month a celebration of the Bible and issue a challenge to everyone to try reading the Bible for 30 days in the month of November. So maybe you read the Bible every day right now, which is awesome. It's great. Then just invite somebody to do it with you in November. Maybe you've never read the Bible before. Maybe you've never ever, don't know a single verse from Scripture. You've tried everything else. Why not try the Bible for 30 days in November? Just see what God does. See if it does something in your life. And there's lots of easy ways to do it. You don't have to use the Bible app, but we're happy to have you use the Bible app. We've got, I think 400 partners that have created 30-day Bible plans for the month of November. So there's just lots of different options to choose from. You can just do a proverb a day. You could read through the entire New Testament in the month of November. Whatever, like if you want to do five minutes, 15 minutes, whatever, there's going to be a lot of options for you to be able to be engaged. We try to make it easy. But if you want to use your print Bible and you're going to do it for 30 days in November, awesome. Do that. Hallow, glorify, other apps are doing 30-day Bible challenges and their apps as well to join us. On November 1st, we're lighting up Times Square celebrating the Bible. And we're going to be at other places as well. Some of them not allowed to even name yet because they've told me, but I can't name them until it's up there, I guess. So we'll see, but it's coming. It's going to be just a really fun time. And we've got influencers and politicians and athletes and all kinds of fun people that the Bible has impacted that are also taking the 30-day challenge and going to read the Bible for 30 days in November. So anyway, we just want this to be a moment to celebrate the Bible. It's not about us. We're just using the milestone as a catalyst to kind of bring a lot of energy around it. I also mentioned Amazon Prime is also celebrating Global Bible Month. Wow. So if you go to Amazon Prime Video, you'll see featured Bible content on the home screen of Amazon Prime. So it's going to, it's a lot of fun. And we hope that this isn't like just a big party, but really the beginning of something for people where they kind of turn and go, man, what is going on with the Bible? Why is everybody talking about it? Why are we seeing so many people mention that they're doing this 30-day challenge? And maybe that's the on-ramp that God uses to get people into scripture. This is awesome. Back to why we're excited about the days we're living in. This is crazy. Like, I hope every listener is catching this. This is going to be a celebration of the Bible really globally. I mean, he said Times Square. They're lighting it up with the celebration of the Bible. All of these people taking the journey of 30 days. Hopefully, that's just the start. Hopefully, that launches them into an everyday thing. This is incredible. So if you are a believer, I hope you're celebrating this alongside of you version Bible app and what's going on there. This is a win for the whole kingdom. And so celebrate it. Tell a friend about it. Do it yourself. Pray for it. This is an incredible thing that we're getting to be a part of. And like I said, even in the prayer before we started this podcast, thank you for what you do on a day-to-day basis to create a space for people to grow in their relationship with the Lord. It's such a blessing. And I so believe that to make the world a better place is for people to know who God is, to know who created them, to know their purpose and why they're here. And so the fact that you're, the work you're doing is introducing so many people to that through the Bible being in their pocket is a huge blessing. And so thank you for being on this podcast. Thank you for what you're doing. I'm grateful to be a part of it myself. Thank you, Sadie. We're so grateful for you. And thank you for living out your faith so boldly for everybody to see. And thank you for helping me tell the story. It's been an honor. Thank you so much.