Pod Meets Twirl'd: Survivor 5006 with Rob Cesternino

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Welcome to Podmeets Twirl, the podcast that once chronicled two guys who had never seen Dancing with the Stars, but watched a season and somehow walked away experts. From there, we ventured into traders to show that I'm pretty sure that I could win if I got on it, but Ryder had never seen before. And now we turn to Survivor season 50, the big one. This time the roles are reversed, where I have seen exactly one season, the very first one with the naked guy, and Ryder Strong has watched for years. We are Will Friedle, who prefers his wilderness with room service, and Ryder Strong, who will hike any mountain but hates the beach. Two best friends, one devoted to the comforts of civilization, one who would never leave the woods if he could, both reality competition scholars. Join us as we dive into alliances, blindsides, fire making, sand related misery, and 25 years of television history, culminating in a single massive season. This is Podmeets Twirl, seeking immunity. And oh, our dear listeners, for half of you out there, you won't care. For the other half, you're like, oh god, please tell me Will's not running the show this week. Oh yes, he is. Ryder Strong is taking a much needed vacation. He was starting to speak in tongues and say strange things, so we sent him to a beach. And now I am here talking about Survivor. Yes, I don't necessarily get it, and a lot of people are having trouble with that, but hey, here we are. So we're gonna get into it, but you know, before we do a couple things. First of all, I've been reading a lot of your comments, which I think are absolutely wonderful, because of all the things that I love more in the world, there is nothing more than fandom. I love it. I love fandom. I love nerddom. I'm a big nerd, so I totally get it. And for the people out there who are like, well, you're never gonna get this. You are ruining Survivor for me. That's true. I'm working on getting it, and I'm hoping that the person that Ryder is insisting that I do this episode with, because he's like, you're not flying solo, bro. It's not gonna happen. I promise you that I am not leaving the most important season of Survivor in your hands. You need a guide. You need a guru. You need a Yoda or even a Grogu to help you determine what Survivor 50 is all about, and just Survivor in general, because clearly I am not getting it, and I need some help. So this week, I'm being joined by somebody who we are not only gonna talk about Survivor from beginning to end and Survivor Season 50, and of course, do a nice recap of last night's episode. Well, it's actually a couple nights ago with the way that we're actually releasing these. But last night, for when we saw it, but also somebody who can talk to me a little bit about the show that I know I could win if I got on it. Traders, so please help me welcome my partner in crime for this week, Rob Cisternino. I will. Hey, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm good. I apologize that you're stuck with me and only me this week. Yeah, well, that's okay. That's not... It's not. ...so jealous. So jealous. Yeah. He's also the big, huge Survivor fan, and I am learning. I get that. I get that. But I'm here to be a bridge for you to get to Survivor. OK. I'm trying. I swear. I get it. I am trying. Yeah. Left and right. Well, we could talk about this on the show, but I feel like I talk to a lot. I mean, I don't know if you know my background at all, but I was on Survivor in the very early days. I was on Survivor back in 2003 was when I played Survivor. Oh, so that's what season three, season four or something like that? We're season six. Six already. Sometime later, probably not unlike you and Ryder. I got into podcasting and podcasting about the show. But I did this. I started in 2010. So I've spent the last 16 years podcasting about Survivor. So I do kind of like the unofficial official survivor podcast. OK, we talk about. And what I do, it's like the ESPN of reality TV. So we're like interviewing the players and like really in the weeds on all of the reality shows, including the traders, which. Oh, OK. So we're going to start with traders. I guess I know that's your I've been listening to and trying to get caught. I know that traders is more your jam than Ryder. Well, it's just because so traders is my jam, survivors, riders. Traders is my jam because I know I can win. Yeah, 100 percent sure. As as every person who watches television, who watches anything goes, oh, I can easily win that. I sit there going, sure, knowing full well that I couldn't. But it's a lot of fun to imagine that I could. So let's let's start there. How did you first get the call about being on Trader? So I got a call from a person who casts the show like one of the executives at Peacock and was asking me about my interest in the show. And it had been sometimes since I competed on a reality TV show. And then they went pretty well. And yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, I went through the regular casting conversations and it's a lot different than when you first get cast on survivor. Because when you do survivor, you're one of hundreds of people they're talking to and thousands of people apply. And it's very much like they are like sifting through. OK, we're going to find these people. I think with traders, they know what they want. They know who they want and they reach out to you and they say, hey, do you want to do this? And then you say yes. And then, you know, you're kind of just like they're making sure you don't have anything crazy in your background or anything like that. And then you're on the show. Well, it's because it was amazing. The first of all, again, not being a survivor of fishnado, I did not know who you were at the time. And the second you walked on to screen, everybody else in the cast is like, oh, God, it's Rob. It's Rob. He's a gamer. He's going to know exactly how to play this game. And then from that moment on, you were kind of a marked man where everybody was like, if we don't get him out right now, he's going to win. So what was that like? My threat level comes from that I talk about these shows more so of like what my accomplishments actually have been on survivor. I've never won survivor. I haven't even played survivor in 20 years. And so there were some people who were in the castle who were talking about my background and a lot to the other folks. And I think it sort of started to snowball a little bit. But I do know the show particularly well. I'm not great at playing it myself, but I do know a lot about it. Well, I mean, you say you're not great at playing it, but you were walking around. My wife and I are watching and you're walking around going like, oh, I think it's a murder in plain sight. I think like you were calling these things as they were happening. So you obviously have to have some sort of an instinct for these. I mean, I mean, what would you even describe shows like this to be survivor? Are they they're not backstabbing shows? That's not the right way to put it. But it's why would you describe it? Yeah, we call it social strategy games. OK, perfect. Reality television, where, you know, there's strategy, but it's also about your relationships. And I feel like I wasn't necessarily great at knowing who the traders were. I didn't really I'm not a vibes person. And some people are like, OK, I can tell the vibes are off with that person. But I feel like if you put me in a situation, I'm going to tell you that doesn't make sense. And so like I think I'll like logic it out eventually. But I'm not somebody who can just like read people like incredibly well and know who's lying. OK. That and I guess that's kind of an important thing on traders, I would imagine. You need both. Yeah. I guess you do need both. Whereas Ryder, again, trying to explain to me certain things where he's like, no, that's the joy of something like Survivor is there's more so in Survivor than traders, there's very physical challenges. There are some in traders, but Survivor really fit. So it's like you might want to vote off the big, huge Jonathan, the giant, right off the bat, but you know for a fact that he's going to help your tribe lifting heavy objects, essentially. So it's that balance he's telling me of all this, you know, kind of you've got to have the social structure, but you've also sometimes has to have the physicality until you get to the individual challenges and then it's kind of every person for themselves. And so I'm trying to wrap my head around all that stuff. But I see beautiful castle and what lovely food in the morning. And I think traders is more for me. Well, it's interesting, I've been following along a little bit with your journeys with these shows. And I think it's interesting that you have really connected more with the actual survival elements. And it's, you know, it's hard because I think that with Survivor in its 50th season, that so many of the people who have watched the show over the years, they sort of like, OK, they take that stuff for granted. And they aren't really as focused on that. And they are more interested in the game and obviously these returning players in the season. But I also talk to a lot of people who are sort of a little bit more of and I hope this doesn't come across as offensive. No, I think they call them a casual viewer. They're like, hey, I look at Survivor, but it's not the most important thing to me. I'm on my phone, maybe I might not watch a season. And I'm sort of like in and out with Survivor. And I do feel like that for the people who are more of the casual viewers of Survivor, that is a really important part of the show. And so that they get a lot of feedback from the show, from the people on the Internet who are very active and have opinions about everything. And they're like, we need less of that stuff. But for the person who is probably the bigger percentage of the audience, where this is a show where we just had like this big fan vote and the fan vote has been probably a little bit more siding with that casual audience, because it's so massive. But the people who are writing the most commentary about the show is probably a more vocal minority. And so for Survivor, I think they get overwhelmed with what do we do? We want to keep the most our most vocal fans happy. But also we sometimes are losing the fans who are a little bit more not as like living and dying with Survivor. Right. Well, this is clear. It's one of the things, Ryder and I keep going back and forth on. And again, it's just unfortunate for me more than anything else in that this is probably not the best first season to come in on because it's by the fans for the fans. There's all these kind of it seems, you know, in what what in because I like comedy in my head, it's like one inside joke after another, where if I didn't see Survivor, I don't understand what's happening. And so I get that this is probably just for me exactly the wrong season to come in on. But at the same time, so you were one of the OGs then, do you as and I imagine you're still a survivor fan, do you miss showing the survival aspect of the show? Do you think they should show more of it? Or are you kind of past that and you're more into the gameplay? I'm much more into the game in terms of for my viewing experience, because I think that we've, you know, we've seen people fish. We've seen like we've seen people have to start the fire. Now, you do get some novel things like in this season when we saw Christian use two pairs of glasses to start a fire. And that's a bit of a throwback. We haven't seen people do that. And I think in a character like Ozzy this season, where we saw in the most recent episode, where he's really in the water. And that's really, but it's part of his character, right? More of like, this is who he is, where he tells us like getting back to nature is heaven for him. And that's always been part of Ozzy's story, where he's a little bit like they used to describe him as like Mowgli from the Jungle Book that he was just like, I can totally see that. The guy who came out there and then had just took to the elements so much. And so there is a really deep, rich character backstory for all of this. I've been thinking about what you've been saying with that it's a hard first season to watch. And I do wonder if maybe because all of the shows are on streaming and available to for anybody to jump in. Whereas when in the era of like over the air broadcasting that there were people who were, OK, I'm going to watch Survivor this season. And they had no way to go back and watch the old stuff where I wonder if by design it's like, hey, all right, well, if you want to like get started with Survivor, all that stuff's on Paramount Plus. This is for the people who are coming in who want to explore where the game is at now. Yeah, I do. I feel like I'm starting with Return of the Jedi. And so you're starting with episode nine. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, you're right. It's like I'm supposed to know what the force is. I'm supposed to know all this stuff. So yes, you're right. I should go back and do a little bit more of my due diligence. But you make a fair point to you. Why like why should you have to? You should be able to also enjoy it. Like it's hard for it's hard for the show to have both things. It is. And I understand that. And then there's things, you know, like in the episode we just saw, which we'll get into, you know, they're eating and it's something that's sponsored by Applebee's, which is a cool way to get in a sponsorship. But all the things going through my head are like, how long has it been since you've eaten is going from no food or just coconuts to double cheeseburgers a bad idea because it's like, how is your stomach dealing with all the stuff that's kind of happening? And I guess I don't because this is what writer keeps saying to me. He's like, you just have to understand that they're suffering. And it's like, OK, I want to see a little bit of the suffering. So I understand that they're suffering. Yeah. And so again, because to me, holding you, looking you go, oh, I could hold on to those things. Well, it's a lot different if you're trying to balance yourself on something and you haven't eaten in nine days and you're sleep deprived and not. And I'm watching, you know, again, we'll talk about it. Exile Island. So he says they, you know, Ozzie ends up going to Exile and he brings Rizzo with him. And I'm like, OK, so they're going to keep cutting to that. And that's going to be a whole storyline. And I'm like, oh, oh, they just kind of did they'll cut to him for 30 seconds. But they they're just kind of off this episode. So I'm not used to what's kind of going on. So basic questions to get them out of my head. How often do you eat? So in the new era, and I think that this is I'm happy to, you know, explain as much of the survivor lore. Talk to me as if I'm a three year old when it comes to survivor. Yes, yes, because this means a lot to the survivor fans that you and Ryder are talking about the shot. I don't want you to give up on. I'm not. I will never. You're here. I'm the completest. I will never give up on the show. Yeah. I am in 100 percent, but I will criticize. So I can give just a little bit more of like the the history of the show because this is a, you know, a 25 year journey for survivor. So after covid, survivor came back with a new format that they call the new era. Survivor used to be 39 days, really, since it started. And so the seasons were 39 days and it was very structured all a certain way. After covid, they had like a bubble that they had everybody come in. So you'd come to Fiji and then you had to quarantine for two weeks. And so because of that, they cut the production cycle down from 39 days to 26 days. And for that, they said, hey, we kind of like this idea. It's going to be fast paced. We're not going to give them any supplies. It's they have to earn everything. So I think on its surface, you probably would say like, oh, I think maybe that's more interesting that they don't get anything. I really want to see that. But the game has moved so fast that the players and you saw Rizzo talk about this a little bit with Colby, like I didn't come out here to camp. We don't do that anymore. So I think that there's a mentality of the players now of like, hey, that we're only here for 26 days. Like let's just sleep on the ground. Let's not worry about building a shelter. Let's not worry about. Let's just starve. And I think survivor wants them to go out and fish and go out and look for food. But historically, they used to give them rice and so survivors would have rice. But survivors then would then eat all the rice and then go to Jeff. Do we have no more rice? And then he would say, well, you have to give me something. You have to give me give me your tray. But they would just eat meat meat. And then, you know, later on, they'd worry about like, Jeff, we have nothing. Can you do something and beg for more? So the show took the rice away, said you have to earn everything. That's why they take away their flint now, because they try to make it more and more that you have. They don't give you anything. So I know that Ryder talked with Sophie Blair and she said that she had eaten for 11 days. It seems like a lot of these players that come out there specifically, I think there's an age divide also where the younger people who come in. That's always been a theme on survivor going back to the infancy of the show how the older folks and the younger folks are getting along. But it seems like that the Gen Z players who come in, they'd rather just like starve and do nothing than put the energy into, hey, I'm going to provide and look for crabs and look for fish. And then this season, you have a player like Ozzie, who historically has been one of the greatest fishermen in the history of the show. He's here and he's able to provide for his tribe, even when they were a disaster and weren't getting anything to eat. That's amazing. So just curiously, as not only a fan, but one of the O.G.'s, do you prefer old school or new school? Yes. Yeah. And I think you would too. I think that for the most part, it was talked about in the show, the difference between old school players and new school players. And the show is so meta now. It really is often the snake eating its own tail, where in Survivor, in the very beginning, it was really a show about we're going to take 16 Americans from all walks of life and what are people willing to do to win this million dollar prize? And it was really the idea was a little bit more of this is a social experiment. And what's going to happen when we put these people out there? Now, Survivor is so meta where everybody who's on the show is a gigantic fan of the show. So everybody's mind is going a million miles an hour. It would be absurd in the in this new era for somebody to be cast on the show that hasn't watched at least 35 seasons of the show. So everybody who comes in is playing because they do. They don't want the players to have to be learning the rules as they go, because they feel like that really stagnates the gameplay. So they want everybody going fast, fast, fast on day one. It's like, hey, it's it's you know, it's dangerous, fun. Go, go, go. The game starts as soon as you land on the beach. So if there are players who are sort of like, wait, how do I play the idol? How do I how does this work? That they feel like it would be too slow. And you also get so much of the show loves to talk about the show. The show loves, oh, my God, Jeff, I've been watching since I was two years old. Right. It's a little bit sort of like that they have cultivated this environment like on the prices right when people come down as like they're wearing this shirt. My grandmother watched this show. Right. You know, I like pick me to play Plinko. That's like the the the atmosphere that they've really cultivated on Survivor, where Survivor in the old days, it was people who really for I don't know how they necessarily got the people, but a lot of them like had never even seen Survivor. They don't even know what it is. And now they're sort of like having to forge this society together. And also that there were stronger bonds that were harder to be broken, where everybody is, you know, the the new era is a little bit more like they play like a board game where it's not so much these deep betrayals and bonds that get made. It's a little bit like, OK, well, I'm playing this card on you because I know you have this. And it's like, oh, you got me. And it's it's not necessarily like the life and death. Right. Emotional bonds that really were part of the older school. And I think that's something else about the old school versus the new school. I think that the characters were much bigger and broader in the old Survivor, as opposed to the game players are much faster and more savvy in the in the new era. So you do have a much faster and more accelerated gameplay in the new era. But people are just making moves for the sake of that. OK, well, this person is a threat, so I have to take them out. Or this person has an advantage as opposed to really getting very invested in more of the characters across the thirty nine day just battle of wills, which was the old school Survivor. Well, it is. It was interesting to hear the kind of the definition between the two. I forget who said it in this episode. Yeah, right. Where she's like, you know, old school, whoever you were friends with, that was you kind of wanted to stick with them forever. That was kind of what it was as you formed a group and there was kind of an honor among that group and you stuck there and she's like in the new school players. They just don't work like you work with this person one week. You work with this person the next week. You work with your enemy here. You do which, again, you're right. It seems to be a more fluid way of kind of playing what essentially is a much faster paced game than it was back in the day. But I guess the question I would ask you is so they come to you and then say, you can do another season of traders or you can do another season of survivor. Which one do you take? That's that would be a hard question to answer. And for me, Survivor would be going home. And it would be like a sort of when I played Survivor when I was twenty four years old. And so that now like half of my life has gone by since I played Survivor. I don't know what would be different if I played traders again, where people would, you know, go like I'd have to get very, very fortunate with a lot of things on the traders where I think that Survivor is less luck based. And I feel like that maybe I could maybe forge a path in Survivor. And I think that there would be like my my heart would say to do Survivor. But I really loved getting to play the traders. So like I was such a fun, fun experience. And, you know, I would be very excited to get the chance to do either of those opportunities. Now, did you when you were watching your season of the traders, were you watching Rob? Just like he's a sociopath. He's perfect for this. I mean, it was like amazing watching what he was doing on that show. Oh, he was absolutely incredible watching the show back. When I was there, I did not get that from him. He was so great about him was that when I was there, he seemed like totally not interested at all. He seemed like almost like he didn't want to be there. He was eating cookies in the kitchen and like the asking for drinks. And he was just not putting out the vibe at all that he was playing a game or at all being strategic. Now, I was there in the very beginning and I think that he was very smart to let Candice really do a lot of the work early on and let her be out in front. I think that one of the things that I say about the traders is you never really want to be like the alpha trader, right? I don't want to be the second most important trader. And so you sort of like let somebody be out in front like doing all the things. And then you sort of want to like lay back. And then when that person inevitably gets caught, be the trader who also is like, it was you the whole time, Will, we know it. So smart. Yeah, I think that's really the way you want to be approaching the traders of you never want to be like the top dog trader. Yeah, no, that makes sense. OK, I'm just filing all this away for the future when I'm someday in the castle. I won't be invited. I'll just be like, oh, God, I would jump. Oh, I do it in a second. Yeah. Would you be a faithful trader? You know, I think I'd like to play as a faithful, to be honest with you. That's right. Yeah, I think there would be something fun about the who done it, about trying to figure out who it was. There's also I think it's harder to play as a trader. I thought it would be harder to or excuse me, harder to play as a faithful. I thought it was going to be harder to play as a trader. But the more I was watching, it's like, no, I think it's much harder to play as as a faithful. So, yeah, there's something kind of interesting about that. But I would. It flips. I think it's in the beginning. It's harder to play as a faithful because you are really just working off of nothing. You're going off of vibes. You know, the game is designed that the faithful are probably going to be wrong. At least six or seven times over the course of the season. It's easy in the beginning to be the trader just sitting back, go up in the turret, pick out a person. But by at some point, it flips where it's insanely hard to be a trader at the end of the game when you get down to like five people. And now it's like everybody's looking at everybody. You really have to work so hard. And it's also a war of attrition where that if you're a trader, you're on a schedule that's so much harder than everybody else because it's late nights at the castle. And then you spend like an extra couple of hours going up to the turret and filming whatever other trader business you have to do. And then you have to show up the next day and not act like you're more tired than everybody else. God, I didn't even think about that logistically. Just the shooting schedule of being a trader, of course, is going to be a lot harder than being a faithful. And I think it's doubly hard for and probably like maybe triply hard for the women for like, say, like Candice and Lisa. And I like to cite Candice because she her makeup was on point. Yeah, the outfits are over. Great. If Candice showed up at the castle one day looking like hell, that you would say like, oh, Candice, what the hell? What happened to you? Where, you know, Rob, I do think had an advantage where he probably just like splashed the mortar on his face, showed up, didn't have to do all that. But Candice was probably waking up, you know, an hour or two early to do hair and makeup before she showed up at the castle after a night of being a trader. And so you're on less sleep than everybody else. And so I think that after a shooting schedule of a couple of weeks, I think that really does start to pile up. God, I didn't even think about that. That's so absolutely true. OK, so we've got to hop into our episode of survivor recap. But before we do, because you are, as you said, you're essentially that we have to put quotes around it, but we don't. You're you're the the official podcast of survivor. I'm just calling it wasn't official podcast of survivor. But they stopped doing it. They did. You're the you're the official podcast of survivor. So I imagine you've spoken to most of the contestants. You've watched the shows. You've seen everything that's happened. Who's your favorite survivor of all time? That's really, really tough. You know, I would say my favorite survivor that I've gotten to watch was Tony. And Tony is a player. I don't know if I want to spoil too many of the seasons. OK, he was just a character that I've described as a unicorn. We're usually in survivor. You have players who are great characters or great players. And a lot of times the best players aren't always the most interesting characters. They want things very orderly and they keep the game from getting too chaotic. Tony. And I think that his first season, survivor Kageon, which had a theme. I really think that survivor needs more themes where I think it's a great hook to get people in that theme was brains versus beauty versus brawn. So there was one tribe that was brains, one tribe that was brawn and one tribe that was beauty. And it was a really interesting season. Great cast, lots of blindsides and chaotic gameplay. And Tony was the king of playing this really super chaotic game that was also very interesting strategically. And I didn't agree with a lot of the moves that he made, but it was one of the most action packed seasons that you could have hoped for. Which which tribe was he on? Was he brawn or beauty? He was brawn. OK, so he's actually a New York, New Jersey police officer. Oh, OK. It looks kind of like a Vin Diesel is a little bit like a mini Vin Diesel. OK, so I'm going to have to go back and start watching all these because it's pretty important, I think, for me. I think it would be interesting to check out one of the older seasons that you to see if you might have like a little bit more of a connection with jumping in and not having to have known the backstory on people. That makes sense. All right, well, let's get into our episode. So this was day 12 on the on the island, day 12 of 24. Is that what we're told? So we're halfway 26. 26. So we're essentially by the end of this episode, we're halfway through our time on the island. And we are at the Seal of Tribe the morning after they voted Charlie out. Jonathan was blindsided, but kind of handled it pretty well. I thought, frankly, this was not Ozzy last week, who was like, wow, you really screwed me over. This was he kind of took it on the chin a little bit. What did you think about that? Yeah, you can't really in survival when you come back from a blindside tribal council that act like, hey, I'm mad at you. I'm mad at you because now you're on the bottom. Now you have to go instantly from playing from a position of strength, which Jonathan thought he was into now having to kiss ass being on the bottom of things. And so you saw a D connecting with him. And so he felt like, OK, well, let me just see if I can like piece things back together and they're not just going to pick me off next. That's really it's the constant. I don't know how you sleep with stuff like that, just wondering who's coming for you. But then we see boats showing up for every single tribe. And we hear apparently again, I apologize for being such a neophyte, but this is a big day on Survivor. This is Merge Day. Merge Day. Yes. Not Swap Day, which was a couple of weeks ago. Right. And this is this is the merge where now all the survivor tribes come together and the game becomes individual. OK, so the thing that I'm still trying to piece together. So it was Merge Day, but they're still kind of battling as individual tribes. And then you're not on the jury. I know it's it's the not being on the jury is like that's still that's been a part of it because the jury is only so many people and they've merged with more people than there are on the jury. So that's not that, you know, unusual in terms of survivor. But what is unusual and they've done this a lot in the new era, it's like, hey, you're merged and now you're going to vote separately. Well, no, the idea was you said we're merged. You said we were we're we're back all as one. And for whatever reason, they love to in that they had. I'll give you some more back. So in the new era that sees it. So after they came back from covid, they sort of tried to do like a little bit of a reboot of the show. A lot of people discovered survivor during covid. And so there was a lot of hype for survivor to come back. It had taken a year off and they ended up developing this game, which was based off of the idea. Jeff had this whole other idea for the game, which was around this idea of fire tokens of like almost like it was going to be kind of like a board game. And Mike White of this season of the White Lotus, that Jeff would bounce a lot of ideas off of him. And Jeff went through his whole whiteboard pitch to Mike White. And Mike White said. But is that fun? And Jeff's like, you're right. And he threw out the whole thing. And so they came up with the idea. It's dangerous fun. And part of the idea of dangerous fun was, hey, small tribes, nowhere to hide. Everything has got to be in a small group where in old school survivor, often there would be tribes of 10. And so as long as you weren't like really causing a scene, you could sort of be under the radar. Right. Skate through and skate through. And they really wanted to throw that out. We don't want people skating by. So they were never going to let you have a vote with 17 people. So they came up with this idea to now, oh, what if we put them into groups of five? And so we'll have now in these small groups, you know, there's really going to be nowhere to hide and really tense votes that happen. And so we got this big twist for this episode, which I'm sure we'll talk about. And is that now is this par for the course? So are they going to every week going to vote as three separate groups of five? Or now I'd be surprised next week if they do a vote of 14. I think that that seems like a big vote for survivor. I don't know if we'll put them into two groups of seven, potentially. But I think that the survivor fans, especially the hardcore survivor fans, like we'll let's say, hey, can we just let them play survivor at some point and not stop putting them? Because when you do these random groupings that there are going to be people, there's so much variance there, you're going to see people who are playing pretty good games get picked off just because they got unlucky with this tribe grouping that they got put in. OK, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, is there a possibility that this exile thing becomes you know, something they do every week to exile two people next week? And then there's two teams of six. I mean, is that a possibility or it's it's look, I wouldn't take it off the table. And I do like that they've had exile in the season, but it is a rare thing for them to have exile Island at this point. It used to be a part of the show in the earlier days where they would send one person to exile Island and they would really they would really spend more time doing the type of thing that I think you'd be interested in of like, OK, I'm here by myself on this island. Right. And I'm sort of like having to survive there. And they used to hide the idol at exile Island also. You go to exile Island, get a clue and be looking for the idol there also. But now they've just sort of like used it as a way to sort of isolate people to get them out of the the main action. But I like that they're doing it with a buddy. Yeah, that was interesting to see, especially if it's you have to pick that you have to pick somebody and they can't say no. That was interesting. OK, so they're all headed to Vatu to become a collective tribe. It's the largest merge in history. We talked about with 17. They usually merge with about 10 or 13 people. But some of them are the thing that amazes me is they're introducing each other. Like they're introducing themselves like we've been on the same show for weeks. We all came in together, but it's like, hey, coach, it's nice to meet you. And oh, my God. So it's like so. So Christian goes to coach like, hey, I'll coach nice to meet you. He's joking. Obviously, he knows he may not have ever met coach in person. But I think he's a little bit pretending like, oh, I know what was your name again? Like so. Right. So they know at least of each other, obviously, because they're fans. Other and and maybe some of them like have seen each other in the pregame. And they obviously they flew to Fiji together, but they didn't have the chance to really talk. Right. They've never been on the same beaches together. But yeah, these survivors are very familiar with each other. OK, well, the merge is certainly not getting in the way of Genevieve and Aubrey's feud, which is this a few. This is where it's like, is this is from a former season, obviously. Right. No, this is from now. They just don't like each other. OK, I thought there was like some backstory to that. No, no, no. Just don't like each other. Fair enough. Yeah, I think that for whatever reason, Aubrey, I think was more of what I was talking about with traders. I think Aubrey's a really big vibes person. And for whatever reason, she felt like that the vibes with Genevieve just were not there. And then she was a little bit aloof with dealing with Genevieve. And I think that Genevieve was a very shrewd player. Yeah. Said, hey, I'm not liking how this is going. And then she then progressed to go all in of like, OK, well, Aubrey is obviously going to be the person who's out. And then, you know, it just like kept, you know, feeding each other from both sides. It was pretty amazing because not to jump ahead, but at Tribal Council, it was she Genevieve essentially says like, and then you've got people on the opposite polar ends of the spectrum, meaning like we could never work together. And it's like, wow, that was a big shot in the dark. That's why I assume this was a feud that had gone back seasons. So I think they never met each other and they hate each other this much. It's kind of great. So the next morning, the Merge tribe, they receive a note. There is no Merge Fest or note, excuse me, no Merge Feast. Yes, or or a Fest or a Fest, either one. Well, Fest, Feast, Music Festival, that last episode I saw what two episodes ago. Yeah, they had a concert. Explain this to me that Jeff said that this Stiga, well, I'm sure we'll talk about Applebee's, but Jeff said it was the best reward of the season. It's like, I thought Zach Brown was the best reward of all time. Make it make sense. Is it? Well, I also can't make sense that nobody with the Billy Eidershile is calling it the Billy Idol. Like it's still like I still don't get why nobody's put that together. I don't think they're allowed to. I think that for whatever I know, actual reason, I think that they have to say the Billy Eidershile. I wish I was Pomerangal. Yeah, I think so, too. They have to say trademark. OK, so they learn that there is a twist. Hidden in the jungle. And so people scatter and they're running through everything they even go through Christian, who's talking about how he's got a, you know, landmark tree. No, landmark tree. No, that's yeah, you got to somehow try to map the island out, which is crazy. And after Rizzo walks right by it. Yeah, finally, Ozzy finds it. It was funny. So I just got back from Atlanta where I went to there was another survivor player, Ron Clark, who he is actually very famous outside of Survivor for his teaching academy that he has in Atlanta. And he had a big event there inviting about 70 different survivor players. So teaching survivor. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He teaches he has an academy that where teach educators come and learn and that. But he was on Survivor on season 38. So he is a big survivor fan. So he had this like big event and there was a bunch of the survivor current and past players there. And Rizzo was there in the audience watching the episode and got to see for the first time that because you don't you don't know. He obviously nobody told him that he. Oh, yeah, you walked right past the idol. And that's a tough moment. Does it like I was right there. Well, that's I mean, that's one of the things that Ryder and I talk about or have spoken about is the fact that that's got to be a tough thing because you're thinking the show is going one way or you're having conversations with people. And then when you watch it back, it's people talking about you in a way that it's like, oh, wow, they either just lied right to me or they obviously don't like me and they're lying. That's got to be pretty tough to sit there and listen to what people really think about you. Sure. I mean, that's reality TV, though. So much of it. Brutal. I know you don't like that part of it, but that's that's that's big thing. And, you know, I certainly experience that with the traders. Right. Yeah, sure. And, you know, in my traders experience, I got murdered in plain sight. And I I felt like, OK, I knew a murder in plain sight was happening. And then I went to bed that night and I woke up the next morning. They said, you're dead. You got murdered in plain sight. I'm like, how I didn't do anything. And I said, OK, what happened? And they said, oh, we can't tell you. Why not? They said, well, you'll see when it happened. Like, so I was like, I don't know what but what I do. They said, oh, well, you'll see one day. Do they really do the producers just come up to you and just go, by the way, you were murdered? It's just like that. No, you well, you think you're going to breakfast and then they bring you to a different room. Oh, God, where are they? I'll sit there down in the chair. No salmon and a murder. That is a bad morning on traders. Oh, that's like, well, and you know where the room is for breakfast. It's like, why are you taking me here? It's a little bit like, you know, you're getting, you know, you're going to the vet. We're going to the dog park and then it's like, this is the dog park. Street. Oh, no, that sucks. So Ozzie chooses for Rizzo to go with him from a game standpoint, game playing standpoint. Did you think this was a good call to pull him out of the game with him? It was interesting because it seemed like that Seri had her two allies. She called it her polyamorous relationship that she was cultivating. And so I think ultimately it was good because it seemed like that he's shoring up another different group that he could work with. So I think it actually worked out good for Ozzie. And I actually enjoy watching Rizzo, who we just saw play last season with to see him from the new guard. Anytime he's with some of like the older legends of the show, I do think that it's like a fun buddy cop sort of massive can see the rookie and the veteran. It did. It reminded me of Seri kind of wanting to work with both of them. But it's like getting two cats that don't like each other. So you have to cover them in tuna fish and just put them in a room and let them let them lick each other clean so they get to be friends. I'm not a cat person. Is that what you do? Well, apparently this is what I've heard. You cover them in tuna juice and you put them in a room and then they just lick each other clean and then they're friends. That's kind of what it seemed like. We're exiling you to become a team Seri, which is what it seems like. And then we get to see something really interesting for me anyway, because I'm not used to this. I'm sure everyone in Survivor is, but we're starting to see our first ever individual immunity challenge, which so this is my first one. And apparently 63 percent of the fans voted for new twists this season. And today's twist is described as a survivor. Blood Moon and three players are going to be sent home. Has that ever been done? We're three at one time. I've been burned for it. We've had double tribal councils before. We've never had the triple tribal council. What do you think about, you know, Jeff set this all up. Were you following the logic of the Blood Moon war and why then? And then three people are getting voted out tonight. I didn't. And I guess it came back later at tribal council, where I guess they talk about video games. So maybe it's a big thing in video. I'm a huge. I don't know. You can see behind me a huge fantasy fan. These are all my fantasy novels. There's not a lot of Blood Moon stuff. Maybe it's a vampire thing or a like and thing. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I think it sounded ominous and that's why they went with it. But yeah, we had our first ever three person elimination episode, which is a lot. I mean, you're getting three people out as you know, that to me, it seems like now everybody's going to start to scramble for positioning, especially now you've got immunity up. And so OK, so today's challenge. Better for you or worse that they did three tribal councils. I don't think it mattered to me either way, if I'm totally honest with you. I think it's going to be I was I was confused at this point of Mergeday. And then it was still three separate tribes. So that confused me. To me, it just meant Mergeday was like, oh, you're taking the three tribes and you're just putting them on a beach together where you're not actually a tribe together. And then they were starting to talk about the jury and how the people kicked out today weren't going to be part of the jury. So then if you're kicked out from now on, you're part of the juries. Am I getting that right? OK, so so that makes sense. So that and they'll vote for the winner at the end. OK, so that OK, I get that. But I guess this was a classic immunity challenge, one that's been around for a while, where they're balancing on the narrow footholds and you're. This is the other thing I would have liked. I would have liked some sort of a time clock. I would like to have known how long they were on there, how long they had to go before they had to get to the next one, which would have been better for me. But hey, so they're balancing on the narrow footholds. Whoever. So they're still in their three tribes. Yes. Whoever lasts longest amongst the tribe gets immunity from that tribe. And then whoever lasts the longest amongst all of them not only gets immunity for themselves, but they also win the big prize for their whole tribe. Applebee's, which is Applebee's. Jeff walks through the Applebee's menu like I'm sitting there and he's a waiter describing to me everything at the Applebee's menu. It's a beautiful product placement. Yeah. So product placement has historically always been a part of Survivor, going back to the very beginning of the show where Mark Burnett sold the show to CBS and basically that they wouldn't give him that much money. So Mark Burnett went to sponsors. And so you had like Target and Bud Light and there were almost every single reward challenge would be and then you'd see the survivors go berserker for Doritos. Oh, my God. Smart. I mean, smart. It was a really big part of the show in the very early days. So we don't have too many product placement challenges, but Jeff really will sell your thing. And how would I mean, my God, you watch him do something like that as somebody. If I was somebody who owned a business like that, I'd be like, get me on Survivor. I want this guy to sell my product. I don't know why, though, that Jeff and he does. He puts everything into it. But he turns into like a 90 year old grandma talking about this. He's like, you're going to have the Bourbon Street burger. I'm going to give you. You're going to have bacon. You're going to have a man would smoke bacon. You're going to love the applewood smoke bacon. Oh, God, it was really great, though. He can't why are you talking like this? Say what you want, though. The man commits to every bit in the show. He really does, which is pretty incredible. He puts he puts it all out there. I do want to add one thing about the challenges and maybe why they don't give you as much of the elapsed time as they used to. And so one of the things with Survivor where I think that this is like we see this across many things like like, hey, used to go to a restaurant and it was like one way forever and now you go there. Like, it's not that good anymore. I feel like they really like put. And so with Survivor, I think that they're under such pressure to like, OK, 26 days, we got to keep things going. We got three tribal councils to get to here tonight. I think that the footholds used to be bigger or or they would spend more time on the footholds. So these endurance challenges in the old days would go for five hours. Now, I think that they really designed them to go about 15, 20 minutes. Like, I don't know if they give you the elapsed time because I think if you heard it, it might be unimpressive. And I think there's any of the survivors that are listening like, hey, Stephanie Legro says like, hey, Rob, hey, listen, idiot, I was up there for nine hours. Right. Exactly. That they they've made a lot of the challenges like the classic survivor challenges, they've made them similar, but actually a lot more difficult to do so they go faster so that they can get on with the rest of the day. That makes sense, especially if they're truncating the show by two weeks. I mean, that that makes sense. I would just slowly have the footholds start to heat up or or spikes, something like that. So this is where I would go with it. I know a little running spikes that you would really love. Australian Survivor, they use some endurance challenges that are really torturous. What is it with Australia? The whole country wants you dead. Even the game shows want you dead. I don't. It's really amazing. Ben there, by the way, beautiful place, incredible people. But man, it's like you wake up in the hotel room next to a spider and a crab. That's three times the size of your bed. It's really strange. So D ends up winning immunity. And immunity is a very small, tasteful necklace. Is what I've known. Very small and tasteful. That's what the fans voted for. Very small, tasteful, really unassuming necklace. No, they were a giant eagle head kind of. Almost Egyptian goddess looking kind of necklace, which wins immunity. And she so D wins immunity. Christian wins immunity. And then Stephanie wins immunity. And she also lasts the longest. So she wins apple bees for her group, which is great. And this is when I was like, wow, they're really totally forgetting about Ozzy and Rizzle. They're apparently that's just I'm never going to see them again. You're not going to see them again. I think that that was they were they were off on their own. Can I give you some apple bees lore, please? Yes. OK. So one of the most fun survivor moments in years happened in survivor 46. When there was this woman named Liz, who she had a lot of food allergies and she could not eat a lot of the food that was on the island that was there. So there was Q who was all from earlier this season. He he won a reward and it was apple bees. And he got to take three people with him to apple bees. And Liz, in addition to having these food allergies, it turns out that she goes to apple bees every week with her daughter and she watches survivor. That's part of their ritual. And she goes and eats this the cheeseburger that they had, which happens to be what she could eat, and it was a totally emotional thing for her. And they said, Q picked three people and he picked three different people that were not Liz and people said, hey, I'll switch. I'll switch. So let's get he said, no, you cannot you cannot give your spot to Liz. And she had a all time historic survivor crash. Where'd you? At peace. She you blew up my whole game. Oh, no. Screamed at Q. Did he do it on purpose to make her kind of unbalanced in the moment? Or I don't think so. But he would not budge. He was not. She was not going to convince him that she should go to the apple bees. Oh, my God. Oh, OK, I have to see that. And what a great commercial for apple bees. That was that a grown woman just had like a total break down over not getting to go to apple. How do you not make that a commercial for apple bees? I mean, that would be the best commercial. But again, my head went to you have not eaten in days. Yeah. And now you're powering down blue, Romulan ale drinks. Romulan ale. And you and your giant cheeseburgers. All please. Yes. It doesn't I have to imagine this. You've spoken all the survivors. Doesn't this mess with your digestion in any way, shape, or form? Certainly can. And so I think what happens is that so without getting into, you know, I don't get graphic, but a lot of times the survivors are very backed up. That your body, when you are going to shock now, your body is going to like start like, OK, I'm holding everything in. And so the survivors haven't gone to the bathroom. Many of them for two weeks now. Oh, God, that can't be healthy. And so it's not ideal. And so then and, you know, to give the survivor producers the benefit of the doubt, perhaps, you know, one of the reasons why they say, OK, 26 days, it's also maybe better for you than 39. But yeah, that makes sense. And so now, you know, you ingest and you and your sort of, you know, you're trying not to overdo it because then if you overdo it, it can come back up. I was going to say, you're going to throw it all up. Yeah. Yes. But then also a lot of times then you see the survivors getting like incredible stomach pains and then ultimately now that they had not gone in a very long time. And now all of a sudden they have there's an urgency. They can't stop going. Well, Christian went in his pants in like the second episode. Yeah. Yeah. That was I'm not sure exactly what the call that to me seemed like a overdoing it with coconut. Right. Well, it's a natural laxative. Coconut, natural, natural, active. And so for the survivors here, it's like a, you know, a push pull of like, how do I, you know, put like, how do I put 4,000 calories, 5,000 calories into my system to last me through the next couple of days without now overdoing it to the point where I'm in the fetal position for a day or two? That's say, that's what I thought is like you would just. Oh, God, gastrointestinal anyway. Sorry. So the winning team arrives at the sanctuary for their Applebee's feast that's really great. This is of course, after we get a little bit of Ozzy and Rizzo on the island, licking the tuna fish off of each other just for the visual. There you go. So they both at least at this point claim because this is the way this show works. I'm starting to realize they're all just claims until you back them up. Claim that they're in together with the Alliance with Ciri. So as far as we know, at least now they're their team Ciri is what I would say at this point. So one of the losing groups is strategizing back a camp. And that's when Aubrey and Genevieve were paired in the same group and then going head to head. Genevieve is this is where now it's just kind of talking about now this is where I have a problem with the show where survivor fans love the show where the next hour is now just cutting to people talking about who they're going to vote for. Yeah. And it's that's that's kind of the show is it's just I'm going to vote for this person. Well, let me go down and talk to this person. I'm going to vote for and I get this is the gameplay. This is what the survivor fans want. And this is where me as a new fan coming in, I'm kind of going, OK, it's just talking heads kind of in high school talking about who they're going to vote for and who they're not going to vote for. And this is why I'm trying to wrap my head around it a little more and trying to get better with this. You know, it's again, it's hard for the producers because it's like, hey, we want big explosive moments in the show. And so we want there to be a lot of, you know, tribal councils and blindsides. And so, you know, they end up creating moments like this. As far as there not being anything having to do with like the survival elements, it's really now it's like, hey, they're trying to get through this day. They're going back to that idea of, you know, the dangerous, fun, small groups of having to fight for your life constantly. Sure. In the game. But it really ends up being kind of a foregone conclusion in most of these groups, ultimately, just based off of who had relationships with whom coming in. So there's not as much intrigue in these three votes as maybe you would have hoped where there's a little bit more of a scramble. Sure. Did you were you able to kind of call who was going to go home before you even got there? It felt like it. Yeah. I mean, it seemed like that Genevieve was sort of dead to rights. And with Genevieve that she was with Aubrey, who was somebody who she had not been working with, but also she was with the guys who sent Aubrey the idol from the other group. So out of anybody else in the game, it was really like the worst possible draw that Genevieve could have gotten in this group. Yeah, that's really. Yeah, that's very interesting. So one of the things that I have been seeing more and more of on social media and I kind of take anything from social media, the Internet with a grain of salt. But you keep seeing, obviously, reality TV, you put quotes around reality producers, editors, directors, they all want to push in there, not pushes the wrong word. They can they can help to construct a narrative and some characters, the real people, but characters on the show tend to get more screen time than others. Yes. And some of the former contestants are coming out kind of saying it might be a little bit of a sexist kind of kind of vibe, a little misogynistic. It seems like it's more based on the men than on the women. And some of the people on the show are really not getting enough screen time. Do you agree with this? Can you see this as as a kind of a legitimate complaint by some of the contestants or is it more like, hey, they're going to they're going to take the best stories they have of that week and try to push that narrative? Yeah. So a couple of the contestants, Angelina really was the first person last week who said it about the edit, but then a bunch of the other women who have been underedited in the season have talked about this. And it's something that the survivor players, you come out there and this was discussed a little bit in the Charlie tribal council, like, hey, everybody's the hero of their own story. And then you see the episodes. It's like, wait, hold on. I was the main character. Where's all my stories? And so historically, while there have been some women who have gotten a lot of airtime, there's some there's many women who are legends of the show. It does feel as though survivor will consistently give almost all of the men a fair share of there's certainly some exceptions. But sure, you know, almost that it seems like that they do a better job of telling the stories of the male characters than some of the women who get left by. I think that if you go throughout the history of the show, I think it's specifically a lot of the younger women, I feel like that they struggle with having to tell their story. And so in this season, you have one there. There's a lot of factors that go into it. But in this season, you have one tribe that has been to tribal council so much. And really, you see more people see more of people when they go to tribal councils. And some of the women, they haven't been to tribal councils at all. And so they've had less screen time in the show. There are people that they count the confession. So the confessionals are sort of like the talking head segments that they do. And so there are lots of people who for a variety of reasons, including trying to predict who's going to win the season, they count the confessionals that players get. And so this is sort of like the box score of who's getting the most screen time in the show. And if you look at it, a lot of the women have gotten less screen time and talking heads than the male players who they've done a better job of telling their story. So you've seen some of the women speaking out. You've seen some of the fans getting upset about, hey, why is survivor like this? It's supposed to be that we're showing everybody equally. I think the show is struggled with 24 players. And then also you have some of these players who are really legendary talkers, like somebody I know coach is one of your favorites and he's come back. And so he's a character is what he is. Yeah, he's going to talk and chew up a lot of screen time. So it is hard. And the only thing that I can say is that, you know, not everybody's story has been told yet. In the case of Angelina and Camilla, I do think it's a disappointment to not have seen more of what they had going on. And for everybody else, you know, you have to see that maybe we do get more of their story going forward. They do seem to develop the men's stories more than the women's stories. I mean, again, as somebody who doesn't know the show at all, doesn't know the history at all, I know a lot more of the men's names than I do the women. Where it's like when I see, of course, when I see D or some of the kind of the series, some of the ones that are kind of the louder speakers, or for instance, this last episode we're talking about, they did kind of focus more on the Arbery, Genevieve thing going on. Right. But it's like, oh, the women are fighting. Right. Then it's almost there's. Yeah, there's almost a there's almost a version of that kind of going on. So, yeah, it's interesting to see. And again, we all know that it's reality TV. There's nothing's real, a quote unquote. I mean, they are they are still trying to push a narrative of the show that they want to put out there. So but it was it was interesting to see as I think somebody said, and it might have been. I apologize for the name that you said who was who came the first one to come out and really talk about it last week. Angelina Angelina, you know, survivor has struggled with this type of issue. Also, all throughout the history of the show, and I will say to the producer's credit, they do they have tried to improve things along and it certainly is is not perfect. That's survivor had its own reckoning with race. And really after 2020, where after everything with George Floyd, a lot of the black players and other minorities talked about, hey, you know, I was on a tribe and it was really this was really unfair. I felt like that my story wasn't really being told. And so survivor really did do a lot once it came back after covid to try to address that. And so survivor is not perfect. They have a lot of things that they can improve on. I do feel like that they do care deeply about trying to get it right. And I have no doubt that they will be looking to improve this in the future. But for the people who are out there right now and feeling like their story is not being told, like it does kind of suck for those players. Yeah, no, I get that. There is you can. And again, being completely newbie to this world, you do see that it seems at least like they're listening to the fans and they're listening. CBS and the parent company are listening to what everybody wants to see. And the problems that are happening because the other one I saw was that they thought that the was a Zach Zach Brown. Is his name? Yeah. Yeah, that he had so many. He was on the island so long. He did a full concert that apparently, at least from the couple of the articles I read today, that they're planning on going back for some future episodes and actually editing down. I don't know. I don't believe that. I think you don't think that's true. I think that that might have been fake news. I don't think that. Oh, you think with the whole Mr. Beast thing? That's the one I write. I don't think so. I think that the shows are largely edited. I don't think that they're changing too much afterwards. You know, there's so much fan reaction to everything. I think that for the most part, I think that unless something is like a big scandal, I don't think that survivor is changing too much based off of how the fans are receiving it. Because again, there's probably a big majority of fans who are silent, who maybe had no issue with the the Zach Brown of it all. Like he's probably Zach Brown probably has a lot of fans that were excited to see him. Yeah. So, you know, that the problem is that a lot of the online survivor fans you complain about everything. So it's very hard to really for survivors to discern, OK, what are the things we really need to look at? Because that there's so many things that people are furious about that they had three tribal councils in this episode and their favorites went home. Yeah, it is. It's one of the things I've always said, just don't live your life based on the comments and social media or run your business based on the social media. It's just the way it is. It's very hard to get any sort of like actionable information from the one star reviews when it's everything like this sucks worst episode ever. And the fans vote and like they went on IMDB and said the Zach Brown episode of survivor was the worst rated episode of survivor. I read that everywhere. And was that true or no? It was not the worst episode of survivor of all time. Was it the worst rated episode? Because I read that it is the worst rated episode of all time. But interesting. I mean, there have been like like many problematic episodes in the history of survivor over 25 years and many boring episodes. Also, it's 50 seasons. You can't do that and not have problematic episodes in anything that you do. So all right. So anyway, yes, we're seeing Aubrey and Genevieve. They're paired in the same group. They're going ahead ahead. Genevieve is not going to vote for Aubrey tonight because she could play her idol and it would all backfire. Instead, she's going to go after Devons and tries to convince Christian to vote for him too. So this is just going back and forth. Another one of the tribes is on a different island. They're also prepping for the tribal tonight. Colby is a sitting duck at this point. And I love Colby. I love I do. He's injured, though. And he has no vote. It's like, you know, even I know, I was like, oh, this is not going well. He looks like the goat that's just tethered to the thing in Jurassic Park for the T-Rex to come and eat. He didn't really have much of a play there. And, you know, for Colby, I mean, he had such a legacy where he was, you know, the biggest star in Survivor in 2001. He was so famous. I remember him. Yes. Survivor the Australian Outback. People named their babies Colby. Like he was in, you know, like put it in. They put him in movies. He used to do commercial. He hosted Top Shot, which was which was a great show. Top Shot. He's on Curb Your Enthusiasm. I mean, he was just like, like the biggest Survivor star. And then, you know, here he is and he's come back and he hurt his toe and he can't. It's just it was really sad. Walking wounded. Yes, it was really sad to watch. And you just you felt back. He was trying to trying to play whatever he had, but he didn't. He really didn't have anything to play. So it was more or less just kind of like, I'm Colby. You don't want you don't want to vote for me. I'm Colby. Yeah. But that was pretty much all you can do. Then coach kind of makes a fool of himself as per use and tells D that Emily is targeting her, which is a lie. A lie. Also a very unbelievable lie because D and Emily are from the same original season. They're both from Survivor 45 and are actually friends in real life. So that would be quite a betrayal if Emily was trying to get devoted out for no reason. Yeah, it's like why I guess if you're going to lie, make it plausible. I don't think he thought it through. I think he's just like, yeah, he's throwing it out and seeing what sticks. The winning team obviously gets back to their camp before tribal and it seems kind of like an easy vote for them too. But you don't know if it's going to be. You've got Camilla, Tiff and Jonathan. If they stick together and vote out Chrissy. Easy. But of course this I'm learning being survivor is not the way that it works. So Chrissy puts on the ultimate ruse for Camilla and Tiff complete with tears. And in reality, she's just trying to get stuck in the middle of the game. And in reality, she's just trying to get Stephanie and Jonathan together to vote out Camilla. Yeah, I think that this was by far the most interesting vote of the three of what was Jonathan going to do because you had the Stephanie and Chrissy who were more affiliated with the old school players. And then you had Tiffany and Camilla who were from the more recent player seasons that were. OK, hey, like stick with us from the last couple of seasons. And Jonathan was really playing both sides. But Chrissy does a really convincing job of making sure that Jonathan is going to go with the old school players who sort of have a little bit more of this like, hey, as Saris said, like honor loyalty, right? When we are word is good, come work with us. And that's a little bit more of what Jonathan is about. Well, you can probably tell that's why I'm team Jonathan. And yes, the pants. Yes, I've got I've got my my pants as I always wear when I'm doing. My survivor made those when I heard that you bought the Jonathan pants. I was surprised. But you know, Chrissy kept saying like, hey, Jonathan, we're cut from the same cloth. I'm like, yeah, that's how he gets his clothes. The cloth from the pants. No, this is I think it was a shout out to Mrs. Jeremy Jermy Pinter or Mrs. Eric Matthews or two fans of ours from Podmeets World and from Podmeets Twirled here that ended up finding the pants and getting the link to Ryder. So well, next, you need like the shirt that has like just shows my nipple. Nipple, my one nipple shirt. Well, I mean, a lot of people in wardrobe malfunction. Yes. Yes. Well, a lot of people look at Jonathan's body and my body and they're like, oh, God, so similar. So it could definitely happen that I'm going to get nipple. That's I thought I was talking to Jonathan. Exactly. Right. I'll zoom. Very similar, very similar. So now we're at the Red Moon, Blood Moon Tribal Council. Blood Moon. We get into the first group. I feel like they turn the music down a little bit this week, which is good because it it does get annoying. It comes out of it. It does. It just I feel like I'm on a Disneyland ride. I do. Every time I hear it, they're sitting there around the ruins and you just hear that that same music. I'm like, I'm on a Disneyland ride. Well, it's jarring when you're actually there because there is no music. So yeah, just dead silence, right? It's like you go from like at home, you have this one experience and then you're there and you could hear it pin drop. So that's the part that's really weird and you're to go and play survivor. Now, is it true because I read that all them grabbing the torches and walking on the beaches, that's all they shoot that. And then they like put them into trucks and take them to the actual vote in trucks. Probably boats in set up in Fiji. But yeah, like you would never. They used to stay in like the very beginning, like we hiked three miles to Tribal Council, like they would get lost. So like how you like and Jeff would be standing there all night. Like, when are they getting here? Right. Yeah, they were supposed to be here hours ago. What happened will bring them rain and everything. So yeah, they sort of like they pick them up in a boat. They take them to Tribal Council and they get out and they they walk up. I'm curious how far how far away is the crew? Like if there's got to be a crew area where Jeff hangs out, all that stuff. Is that a small boat? I never played in Fiji, so I don't know necessarily what that layout is. But there tends to be on the survivors have like a certain area and there's like a signpost, no crew, no players past this area. And then production will have like a base there. That may have their own base camp. They have a really nice set up in Fiji where the crew has really nice accommodations. Jeff has good accommodations. So the show is really comfortable in being in Fiji. It used to move all around the world where I remember that lots, lots of different locations. And then starting with season 33, they landed in Fiji and they've been there since that point. It does make more sense to just kind of have a controlled area, especially if and I hate to keep saying this, but especially if kind of the survivor aspect of survivor is gone and it's more about the gameplay, then you can control it more in one area, much like the Hunger Games. Yeah, it just makes sense. It does. No, it does. They don't have to like rebuild all all of the challenges and props and they are able to save a lot of money. They filmed two seasons back to back also. A lot of the changes to Survivor have come because they're trying to save money and make it more economical, where there was a point where it was such a phenomenon, it would be friends, you know, four million people a week would watch Survivor at a certain point. Survivor will win its time slot, but it's not like the juggernaut that it used to be. So they've done all sorts of different things between cutting back the days, staying in Fiji. They filmed two seasons back to back. So they've done a lot of things to sort of like cut the amount of money that they spend the over head as much as you can. Well, that's smart. So, well, I mean, everybody's kind of going back and forth. Is it going to be Chrissy? Is it going to be Camilla? Who's going? And then I wasn't shocked if I'm on it. It was the biggest shock of the three, but still wasn't like, oh, my God, I kind of figured that maybe Jonathan was going to going to vote Camilla. How about you? No, I was not surprised. So I actually was a little surprised that the vote was Camilla and not Tiffany because I thought that at least Jonathan and Camilla had more of a relationship than we've seen Jonathan with Tiffany. And I think that maybe the Chrissy and Tiffany, they were together on the last tribe, maybe that there was a relationship there. But I was not surprised that Jonathan went with Stephanie and went with Chrissy because it really does seem like that he's very much aligned with. He was working with coach earlier in the season that he would want to stick with the people who were also with that honor, loyalty. I was going to say team honor. Yeah, that kind of thing, John and all that kind of stuff. That if memory serves, Tiffany's name wasn't even floated, at least that we ever saw. No. So yeah, amazing. Amazing. All right. So now we go to our second tribal council, different music, same game. Geneva ends up playing her shot in the dark. I never can please very briefly walk me through this shot in the dark because I didn't really understand everything. On the dark, everybody gets one. The idea is that everybody gets one of these. Everybody has one to start. Yeah. Oh, OK. And so you could have one time when you get to play it, where it's basically it's like you're sort of your Hail Mary where, hey, I think I'm getting, which is why Colby couldn't do it. You need a vote to do it. So it's like, hey, I think I'm getting voted out tonight. So instead of actually putting my one vote in, I'm playing the shot in the dark, which it makes no sense because it's a one in six shot. It literally is a die. Right. It literally is. I think so. It's like, oh, so you roll it? No, you put it into a tube and then you pull a scroll out of the back. OK, just like Vegas. Gotcha. OK. Yeah. So I did not know that everybody got one. I thought you had to win one of these or some. Everybody gets a shot in the dark. OK. You start the game with one and it's basically your, hey, I'm going to I'm going to lose. And so it's a Hail Mary. Throw my Hail Mary. And then if Jeff, if you pull out the one scroll that says safe, everybody goes crazy. It's like, I did it. Like and so it's happened. People have got it. It has happened before. OK. OK. All right, interesting. So but not this time. She is not safe. So any of the votes against her will count. And well, she's actually unanimously voted out. But before she leaves, she gives her coat to her nemesis. Aubrey. So many coats. I was going to say, there seem to be this whole coat thing seems to be. It's like a rite of passage. It's like toys for tots at Christmas time. Like donate your coats to cold survivors. Donate your coats. I still don't know because half the time they're cold, half the time they're hot and half the time they're standing. One person's in shorts and t-shirt sweating next to a person who's in a sweater. So I don't know if they're hot or cold. It's very interesting. And then we get to the third tribal council. Coach is all dressed up for the red wedding. And Colby gives a very sentimental speech that leaves some of the people in tears. I think he knows he doesn't literally and figuratively have a leg to stand on because he's injured and he's just doesn't have a vote. He's just he's. Yeah, he's piggy on the island without the conch. So this was a nice send off for survivor for Colby. You know, you sort of like that the idea of season 50 at being this celebration was supposed to be where you were going to have these like great iconic players coming back for one last like Daffa the Cap curtain call. And if Colby was going to get blindsided, you wouldn't get that. So in a way where it was such an obvious vote for Colby, he really was able to get his flowers and have an emotional send off after, you know, as a survivor viewer, if you started, you spent 25 years watching Colby come and play the show. This is his fourth time coming back. Colby was the one in his very first season where he easily could have won and gave it to the woman, right? Took Tina to the Tina Tina. That's who it was. But at that point in time, survivor was such a phenomenon. And Colby was the good guy, America's hero, cowboy hat. I think he thought that he had a big career coming in movies. And I think that he felt like I did. I mean, he did. I mean, he did have a career, certainly. But I think he felt like, hey, maybe I'll win. Maybe I won't. But I think I'd rather do that and be beloved than screw Tina, who he cared for. And they're friends to this day. Remember, a million dollars and then at what cost, you know, where I'll be, I'll be hated, but I want a million dollars. I think that he really was thinking about his image, too, along the way. Well, it worked because, you know, he was beloved even though, yes, he was voted off the island. He's still considered one of the most beloved survivors of all time. And I think he'll be, you know, he actually was before this season, just to give the the the bow on Colby. Yeah, he had this great run. And then he came, he played two more times and it was kind of underwhelming. The last time he played that he was really, he seemed like he really wasn't that into it. He was kind of like miserable the whole time. He was called Superman in a fat suit by one of the other contestants, where he was like this like young buck who was winning everything in his first time out. And then he was kind of seemingly like over it and was like a sad Mopi version of Colby. Oh, no. So to see him come back and have this run and, hey, make sure you find the joy, everybody. That's that's the lesson. Find the joy. And so he I mean, the era of reflection. And he came back with a different spirit and seemed like he got a lot out of it. Like it was a nice bookend to his story. Yeah, which is really great. And that's that was our episode for for the night. I mean, we we don't usually get into what happens next because that's the fun part of finding out what happens next. But I would like to know you're in Vegas. They hand you chips. You've got to put your thousand dollar chip on the person you think is going to win this season. Oh, who do you think is going to win Survivor 50? I know you're not the biggest fan, but could it be coach? I don't know. Do you think do you think it's going to be coach? OK, I'll say I feel like somebody from the old school, I think is headed on the right. I think that the new school is really on the back foot now. I think he has a chance also with this Aussie and Riz God set up. Does Aussie have a shot for once? I don't think so. No, like I it'll be interesting for Aussie. He he got he's been very close. He got to the finals his very first season lost five to four. He also was one vote away from winning in a season that he got voted out three times. That's a story for another day about how Aussie got voted out three times in a season. He almost won. And then it would be. I think that there's a I think he's well liked, but I don't know. OK, that if he if he goes to the end with Suri, he will lose to Suri. Suri's beloved. So if Suri is an icon and everybody, this is when the jury, who's going to start being picked next week, none of these three people are on the jury. So going to be picked next week, they decide they decide. Well, the final three will sit there. They will make their case of who will win. The jury will ask questions and then they will all vote for a winner of Survivor 50. OK, well, man, thank you so much. Yes, for joining us while we're here. Now, you are unfortunately going to be stuck for one more thing, because I do every week on our show, I do a little something called Will's History of Famous Survivors and stuff. I'm still working on the song. Please don't hold it against me. But we're going to do a very quick one this week, because it's a long episode, because I wanted to talk to you about why I'm wrong about not liking Survivor. And I'm getting there. I swear to God, I'm getting there. But this week, we've got Roy Sullivan, who is a man who was struck by lightning seven times. Yes, the US Park Ranger survived an astonishing seven lightning strikes between 1942 and 1977, a feat that made him a legend among survival stories. His endurance and luck earned him a place in the Guinness Book of World Records. I think I'd rather be there for hot dog eating, as opposed to most times struck by lightning. But his story is really fascinating. Go check it out. Just be careful. Don't read it under a big tree, because apparently even his story attracts lightning. Yeah, I think if you get struck by lightning seven times, you like it. Yeah, you're asking for it at this point. I'm going to believe lightning strike victims normally, but like something something's off here. Yeah, seven times. Although apparently it's this somebody fact check me on this because I could totally be wrong. But apparently if you're struck by lightning once, you have a better chance of being struck by lightning again. Then if you've never been struck by lightning again, I could be making that up like a blood moon. But I don't think I am. I think that's absolutely true. Blood moon, you get three times. That's exactly the danger of. Of a blood moon. Exactly. So can you tell us a name of your podcast, which everybody knows anyway, but I want to shout it out anyway and where everybody can listen to you. It's called Rob has a podcast. You can search for it. R-H-A-P and talking about survivor and all of these reality competition games, the Traders, Big Brother. And so if there's a show with strategy, we typically have a podcast about it. I actually how's this for some fan stagia for you? OK, I have recently wrote a book that is coming out next month. It's called The Tribe and I have spoken. It's about the 25 year Lauren legacy of survivor. And you can check out as a book.com. Maybe that. Listen, maybe for you one day, maybe maybe I'll send one for Ryder for now. Oh, that's that's so harsh. You know, we have a book coming out, too. So if you don't want to copy of ours, then that's fine. We could trade, but apparently Ryder is going to get one. Yes, book means we're all this coming out. Listen, I can't be like sitting here on my high horse. That I do not have all of Boy Meets World's history at the ready. There you go. Thank you very much. So no, this is this has been really cool. I again, I am trying. Yeah, I appreciate what you all are doing that it really like as as somebody who talks about survivor all time, I love that you're bringing more of an audience to the show. And I think that that's great. And I think it's also hard to jump into something with an existing fandom. I think it's very brave to come in because that you really open yourself up to like, oh, you you think you could just come in here and talk about this show? Don't you know? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I kind of love that, though, because I'm a mega nerd. So fandoms at nerddoms are two of my favorite things in the world. And when a fandom gets mad at me, it's joyous. And I never, ever, ever do it as like rage bait in any way, shape or form. But it just shows a passion for something that people love. I mean, I'm like that with fantasy novels, with Dungeons and Dragons. I'm like that with stuff in my life, too. So I completely and totally get it. There's never any hard feelings. It's somebody, quote unquote, bashing something that brings you joy. So I completely understand where the fans are coming from. And all I can say is I'm working on it. I'm getting there. I'm learning the characters, which is an important thing. I mean, again, as a fantasy lover, it's it's about world building. So I'm trying to understand the building of the world. And I'm sure that you know this from everything that you've done with the pod. It's also like this this world building. It's also community building where people come in and it's like, oh, yeah, that we have our own language. And there's certain things that only they only we know about. But it's the stuff that makes us feel close and connected with the things that we actually care about. So in some ways, it is a little bit of a moat that anybody just can't jump in and be a part of our thing that's really sacred and precious to us. So I know people who, you know, fight through that to sort of like get it. And then it's like, oh, I'm part of this now. So it's, you know, it happens with all sorts of these online fandoms. And so it's natural. OK. I'm getting there. They've been usually very nice to me. They just are kind of like, you don't get it. And they're right. I don't get it, but I'm working on it. And you've been a great teacher. So thank you so much for joining. And you're going to have to come back when riders here because he's not going to be happy that he didn't get a chance to talk to you. So please join us again to help explain more stuff. Yeah, I would love to. OK, good. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you so much. Well, bye. Bye. Man, that was cool. Yeah, I mean, talking to somebody who's knowledgeable about a world that I am still learning is just so helpful. And it's something that, again, is a nerd I love to do. So unfortunately for all of us, Ryder did not send me the thing that he normally says to get rid of the episode. You know, the outro, he sent me the intro, but he never sent me the outro. So I'm going to have to make one up and mine's not going to be nearly as poetic or awesome as Ryder. So I'm just going to say thank you, everybody, for joining us. We've survived yet another tribal council. Our smoke hasn't been trapped. Is that what is that what Indy always says? But we will be here next time with loud beating drums behind us as we write down somebody's name and find out if everybody decided to write down the same name or they screwed us at the last second. Thanks, everybody. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.