‘Wild Things’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mallory Rubin

the rewatchables is brought to you by the ringer podcast network where you can find higher learning yeah with van lathan yeah midnight voice and ringer tailgate yeah the best new show of 2025 very special yeah somebody sent me a listener email saying that joel anderson was like a fourth round. What did he say? Fourth round? He said a fourth round defensive end that has 15 sacks in their rookie year. Just comes out of nowhere. That was the description of Joe Anderson. I said insult and a compliment. Frankly, how dare that person? Joel, number one draft pick. But also gave him 15 sacks, which was a compliment. So really win the game. Five-star recruit, number one draft pick, 15 sacks, rookie of the year, Hall of Fame. And you put a trick on him. You did the dress-up trick. Oh my God. That was just a genuinely incredible moment. Man, the show started, the show is rolling, and then two things happened to the show that we could not have predicted. Number one, Joel is just, I can't explain it. And then when Billy came in, Billy knew how to harness it. Tells all of them to dress up in suits. When you say how to harness it, you mean make fun of Joel every 15 minutes. Yeah, man. Yeah. What a show. What a show. Best of the show of 2025. No awards yet, but I just gave one. Natalie Ribbon. Hello. You're steering House of R. That's right. I don't like to pigeonhole you as we only bring you into the rewatchables for certain type of genres and things. Yeah. But you are being pigeonholed lately, so we're going to have to zag at some point. I would say that there's an erotic thriller. Harrison Ford. Stuff. Harrison Ford sports movie. Maybe we just do a generic rom-com in 2025 with none of those things. That would be great. I'm still waiting to be invited for my actual area of expertise, which is a science fiction or fantasy film. Waiting for the Blade Runner call. As soon as we run out of movies, what happens? Blade Runner. Blade Runner would be fantastic. Have you seen Blade Runner? Yes. It's not in the theater. Oh. Long. Age 12, long. Long movie. This is not a long movie. No. It's an amazing movie. It's Wild Things, and it's next. Wild Things, 1998. They don't make them like this anymore. They're not allowed to make them like this anymore. You can't do it. They try to make this. They do either crazier versions of this or tamer versions of this. They never hit the sweet spot. Erotic thriller, black comedy, campy thriller, Sweaty Masterpiece Most expensive lifetime movie ever made Yeah Those are the five genres, what am I missing? Softcore porn Erotic thriller Or the MTV generation Absolutely So after a whole decade of erotic thrillers Really, I guess you could make You could make arguments for other decades But for me, the 90s is the sweet spot The classic era Starts a fatal attraction Okay, done comes through for the next 10 years. Disclosure, indecent proposal. Anerotic cradle. Sliver, body of evidence. Based against things. By the time you get to the end of the decade, some of the younger people who have grown up on those movies are old enough to go to the theaters to have their own version of it. So you bring in two young stars like Denise Richards, who's brand new, and then Ned Campbell from Party of Five. You make the movie, you make it some scandal, and then boom, you get people in the theaters. I just want to say, brave of you to open with Sweaty Masterpiece, which had really high likelihood of turning into an incredible Freudian slip. Just amazing work from you there. Sweaty Masterpiece. I didn't know where it was going to go. Thank you. I didn't know where it was going to go. This movie came out in 98, so I was in middle school. And let me say that this was one of three staples in Reisterstown, Maryland, for young people of a certain age at the sleepover or party. parents have gone upstairs what are we putting on it was wild things cruel intentions or american pie wow late middle school into early high school just uh frankly to the point where it's a great era i think we were just watching the motel threesome in the pool scene and i until i revisited this as an adult i don't think i actually recall what the movie was about or what happened in it yeah just thought it was about fucking which is the way it is and that's funny because being a guy 18, 17, 18 at that time, that saw Denise Richards. Automatic entry into the White Girl Hall of Fame. Auto entry, right? I would say it's like the Dante Culpepper Viking season. Whatever that year was when he had like 48 TDs and 5,000 yards. Then you look at Pro Football Reference later like, whoa, those stats were crazy. That was nuts. You go to the movie and if you were just a little bit older, the movie at that point when I first saw it didn't have enough nudity and sex for me. I expected more. I expected more. I remember being like an hour into the movie, it was like, yo, is this a courtroom thriller? Like, what the fuck is going on? Cruel Intentions was like that too. It's a really horny movie that's not as sexual as it seems like it should have or could have been. Yeah, I do think you're right though that the second half of the movie really has like a grip on the collective consciousness and when you revisit it you're like am I watching like presumed innocent? What is this exactly? And then it radically shifts at the moment of the first twist being revealed and of course there are as many twists to come as there are endings of Return of the King. Continuing my streak of mentioning Lord of the Rings here in front of Bill until he watches one of those movies. I don't even know what that is. You're really missing out man. Even Craig. Oh the Amazon show I would also recommend. Rings of Power. Can we go back to the late 90s? Sure. It's just a real sexual energy brewing in the late 90s. We have magic the HIV announcements November 91. Hold on. I'm going to land the plane. Settle down. Hold on. Hold on. I just put the wheels down. I put the wheels down. I'm going to land. All right. I was in college during this time. There's a real kind of fear of HIV. There's a real fear right now in this room as you say these things. Go ahead. By the time we hit the late 90s, people are like, fuck it. Let's get our frees on again. I'm not scared anymore. Let's go. And you can feel it trickle into the TV shows and the movies and the music. We have Maxim magazines kicking it up. MTV Spring Break. Text tapes are just popping out left and right with celebrities. WWE Attitude Era and the Divas. Britney Spears is about to come into the scene as like whatever she was trying to do. She and Elizabeth at American Pie. Anna Kornikova. Woodstock 99. Everyone's topless. Jerry Springer. Girls Gone Wild. We just kind of fucking lose our mind in the late 90s and this movie fits in. See, I landed the plane. You did? I actually think that something... You did? I think that something... He adjusted the winch. You got to sail right where it needed to be. I was like, what? You don't drive a boat, you sail it. Yeah. You know? Never worried. All kinds of stuff. Like, you miss other things that were just, like, well, not the ease wild on, where they would go and show people in bikinis gyrating in Ibiza and all of that stuff. Howard Stern would be on there. You turn on Stern. Howard Stern's another one. And it would be like, oh, the lesbian contest of Long Island or whatever. You'd see porn stars on there. We had Skinamax. Skinamax. Skinamax Showtime. Absolutely. But Jenna Jameson becomes a mainstream star. She becomes somebody that people just know. America had its horns on. It did. And then what happened was, in my opinion, the reason why things are actually opposite now is because the rise of the internet and pornography took all of that sexuality out of the mainstream. It put it back in your pocket. so it was something that you could do while you're in, you could go enjoy your serious movies and your serious stuff like on the screen it didn't have to be sexy because you could watch the wildest shit just on your phone or on your computer. Here's my question, why not both? Why do we have to make a choice like that? Why not have erotic thrillers and lots of sex in our movies and be able to program your particular algorithm and filters for whatever suits your needs? We have too much of it now Too much of what? You can find anything you want now. 1998, this is still the local video store that had the swinging cowboy doors that you went behind, and there were all the porn titles. And this was Wild Things Comes Out, and everybody's like, holy shit, I heard there's a threesome. And then there's just something else. like there was a certain there was a certain type of star particularly a lady star that burst onto the scene with their sexuality and then mainstreamed it out with like a serious role. We gotta talk about that. But the TV stars the teen stars moving into this world of course. Sure. But there is something different now like after the Fappening and you actually saw happening. It's true. After the happening and you actually saw... You're worried about me flying the plane. I'm just in the presence of two of the greats. It's an honor to be here. It's an honor to be here. After you saw, and this is, you know, after you saw all of those ladies naked for real, they just didn't have to be erotic on screen anymore. It's just totally different the way people come to an actor or actress's sexuality anymore. Well, also, we were talk about Thrones before we started taping because I've been re-watching it. Think of how many shows pushed the envelope from 1998 on. Yeah. And like even Industry, which you have in this week's episode. I'm one behind. Just a violating sexual scene moment. You can count on some explicit content in every episode of Industry without question. You should be going back to the early 2000s all the way through and even Oz was doing this in the late 90s. Oh yeah, of course. But then Thrones pushing the envelope and all these other shows and how far can we go? How far can we go? Wild Things, like, this seems really tame now. It does. Oh, we have a truth. And it's like, this would be like, this would get rejected in the dragon meeting. What's the show called? House of the Dragon? Yes. House of the Dragon is one of the spinoffs. Have you watched The Night of the Seven Kingdoms yet? Haven't watched that yet. There is a gigantic, gigantic cock at the beginning of the episode, too. Everyone's talking about this giant penis. Whole fight. Yeah. Very, very, very memorable. We did a special ringer.com piece about the biggest penises in HBO history. It was some required journalism. Oh, except for Inconceivable in 1998, because this movie has a penis for a split second from Kevin Bacon. That's right. And it became like a cultural phenomenon that year that he flashed. Yeah. Nobody could believe it. He flashed. There was a couple of notable penises that, like, because Bruce Willis' penis. Uh-huh. Sure. Yeah, Color of Night. Color of Night. So his penis and then, but the Bacon penis flash became, he was going around doing press and being asked about it every time he did press. Yes. I like the quotes that he's had over the years about how this was like an obsession in the American media. But in Europe, nobody even, not only did they not care, they didn't even comment on it because, you know, in Europe, they're much freer with their bodies, right? And nudity is more common. But it was something that people talked about here in the States for so long that, like, what was it, 10 years ago, 2015, he put out the Free the Bacon PSA, you know? Great, great fit. It lives on to this day. And Wahlberg was dealing with it, too, at Boogie Nights when it was like, is that real or fake? but there was a penis there Craig as you hear us talk about this do we sound like we're 100 years old um no because even when I came up I don't know I do feel like there's a bit of a bounce back right now with nudity on screen I think there was a period where it was completely gone and there is now a bit of people kind of taking control of it again and feeling confident about doing nudity on screen people like obviously like Sidney Sweeney Jennifer Lawrence has done nudity in multiple movies like in the last five years. Yeah. In the late 2010s, that had kind of gone away. Yeah, you're right. And now it's starting to come back again. Yeah. Well, when we did just one of the guys, sadly, you were not. I know you were devastated. That's only three seats. I get it. But, you know. But Joyce Heiser didn't know if she wanted to get naked or not. And Roseanne Arquette was basically, they were debating it. And one of the things they mentioned was like, when you get older, you're going to be glad you did it. She looked great. would be like 60, 70, it'd be like, look how great I looked and whatever. And I wonder maybe if that's flipped too. Well, it feels like it was in the hands of the producers and now it's in the hands of the stars. True. 100%. Well, there's something else that exists now that didn't exist then. There was, obviously there's subtext to all of these conversations about how these scenes actually played out on set. Yeah. Now there are intimacy coordinators that exist on set to make sure that the actors and actresses aren't doing anything that they really want to do. So you can expect now if you see nudity on screen Hopefully that everybody involved was comfortable with this and wanted to do it. Exactly. Now, because HBO is not going to hang their ass out in the air by not having the intimacy coordinator on set in case somebody comes back and says, you want an intimacy coordinator? You got a frame in right now. It's Sean Fenton. Silent Judge. The Investor Coordinator. Silent Judge. Yeah. Just kind of staring us down. Unfortunately, he's not prepared to comment because he curled up into the fetal position so that he didn't have to hear anything we said about this movie. True. Well, no. Is Neve Campbell kind of a redhead in this? Not totally. No. I mean, some dyed hair. But it's interesting that there are, like, different versions of the nudity in this movie. You obviously have the very memorable Denise Richards, Kelly nudity. Very memorable. Impacted a lot of lives. Kelly Van Ryan. Yeah. Important stuff. Then you have Neve Campbell and the fact that Party of Five was still going. The contract didn't allow for nudity in other projects. So you have these scenes. I don't know if I believe that. Who knows? Within the internet research. Yeah, exactly. Both the threesome scene and I'm sure we'll talk about the unrated cut and the extended pool scene. But both of those are like you get the back. The shirt is removed or the top is removed. You get the back, but we're not seeing the front. And then the Kevin Bacon story is like, I didn't, it was actually my contract that I would not do nudity. And I did not think I was going to be naked in this movie. And then that cut. That uncut. Butt to penis. He just gives butt and he turns around to penis. They're like, can we use this dick? And he says, you know, how do I look? Sure, go for it. I don't believe that one either. You think he wanted the dick in there the whole time? I think it was 100%. It was like, oh, I didn't realize. Do you know that like the. I like that theory. The scene of the dick from Kevin Bacon was for me, Kevin Bacon had been with me for a while at that point. The big picture of like just all of the footloose and then you're 18 and you're like yo, you're in the theaters and better was like yo, was that his dick? He put the dick and then for a second you're a little mad like why he put the dick in my face like that and then you're like oh okay well I know this guy. That's the difference in movie theater experience versus like watching this at home. So that's the chair size? On a 50-foot movie screen? Yeah. That dick's coming at you. Yeah. Like, call her name. I got freezing. Put that thing away. Just trying to sit here. It's popcorn. But really, but when I think about it, Oz, Oz is probably. Oz broke out of the dick. Scene for scene? Yeah. That is the most, that's the pioneering dick show, at least in my life. Well, they said Euphoria is Apex Mountain for Dicks. They had a special dick episode The math is skewed because of the locker room Sequence where you get dozens and dozens And dozens of dicks in one sequence There you go Neve Campbell Fell in love with her America, Party of Five Tortured Salinger family Lost their kids in a car accident Had to keep the restaurant Just one terrible thing after another would happen to those crazy kids Party of Five I love that shit I never fucked with you. I'm not owning on Roku. Voodoo, one of those. When you think about it... DVD box set? Matthew Fox. Jennifer Love Hewitt. Neff Campbell. Scott Wolfe. Scott Wolfe. One of the Londons. Not Dazed and Confused. The other London. Not Randy Pink Floyd, but his brother. The show went on to put a bunch of people in our lives that stayed there for a while. It's like a sneaky, good, like, incubator for future Hollywood stalwarts. Neve Campbell, Jennifer Love, Hugh, and Matthew Fox, at least, they're all still around. Very important 90s show for talking to women. Oh. Being able to be versed in some of the shows that were coming on. Oh, because they gave you something to talk about with them, not because it taught you how to talk to women? No, not because it taught me. It was just a nice little, oh, Party 5? Yeah, what the fuck's going on with Bailey? He's drinking again? You watch Party 5? I'm ready to go 5 minutes right now. Which show or movie taught you how to talk to women? Wild Things? Which show or movie taught me? You have to go to the 80s for that. I'm interested in this. What's the conversation? I would say it's more what taught you not to. Okay. More like Tales of Caution. What to avoid. Don't do that one. Who you don't want to be. The character you don't want to be in the movie. Who are those guys? It's more like the When Harry Met Sally type of people. Yeah, the people that were mean and then came around. Johnny Lawrence? Don't want to be him. Don't want to be the villains. Yeah. Neve Campbell, Party of Five. This is the era of they take the person out of the TV show that everybody's watching. Party of Five almost got canceled every year. It was always after like 90210 or whatever Fox show. It was very beloved. People would try to save it. The audience was always just good enough to keep. but it became this movie engine with her and Jennifer Love Hewitt so she's in The Craft she's the lead in Scream which was a big deal she's in Scream 2 and she's in Wild Things and during this whole thing she has to turn down Armageddon because of conflicts with Party of Five and then it kind of tails off after that but I think her problem the peak of her run makes sense because she was really kind of a one move actress it was kind of Perfect 90s actress She's like a little bit like squinty But you still liked her anyway But maybe there was a little more under there And I don't know where there were a lot of places for her to go Like she had a vulnerability That made sense in that decade Yeah you felt like you were rooting for her Right right Which she hits in this movie She hits it in the craft as well Almost like the same character Between this and this is very very similar And then like you wanted to see a different pitch from her in the 2000s. Well, remember she was in 54. She plays this big demonstrative actress in the cocaine era. And it was just like, I have too much history with you as this really thoughtful, sensitive... Too much history? Sounds like more of a you problem than a Neve Tambo problem. Might have been a you problem. I was like that. I was thought on Party 5, I thought she was good on that show. It was one of my favorite dumb dramas. What's your Neve Tambo experiences, Mel? You know, I think the missing slice of the Neve Campbell pie for me is just the Scream movies, because I don't, as you guys know, I don't do horror movies. So, but even just the heft, like the grip that they had on the culture at that stretch of time in the 90s, it was inescapable. And so I had a sense of her prominence in those films and the way that those movies and that inspiring, scary movie, etc. Right. Like, even though I wasn't watching them, I still had a good feel for them. But yeah, Party of Five was a big deal for kids my age. And then this movie was like, you know, obviously the movie in general. The naughty movie. Yeah, what we're getting from Nev Campbell in the movie, what we're getting from the Susie character. The kind of like salacious, caudry aspect of the story, which like, you know, I think the deployment of Susie and Kelly and Sam and Ray and really everything in the film. I mean, the mother, Sandra, maybe in some ways, most of all, actually, I can't wait to talk more about Sandra. You were her too. You know, you think about the movie and you're like, is this a good movie? Does it matter? It doesn't matter. It's so watchable. It is so inherently watchable and entertaining, and the Neve Campbell Suzy performance is just a huge part of that. It's also important that it was surprising that she was in this. That was surprising that Neve Campbell was in it. Yeah, there's this thing that as the years pass, you don't realize the impact of like, whoa, she's going to be in a movie like that? Well, let's forget her Salinger character. What was her name? I can't remember. Party 5, I can't remember either. But the Salinger kid? It was important for her to do the movie because of that fact yeah yeah interesting in this film is that you're getting to know denise richards in this type of erotic thriller just like the first time you're seeing her yeah and it's nev campbell's change of pace here and even the kid even the character because like you see that all the time right like you see somebody that's known for being on dearful of hewitt has a version of that Sarah Michelle Gellar was a really good one for cool intentions where did this come from and then you see someone I don't want to be typecast I want to break out of the beloved lovable Julia Salinger Anne Hathaway does that she does that she went in early though because she was in Havoc she was like don't pigeonhole me I'm not Princess Diaries I gotta get out of this as soon as possible if my career tails off at least even for a year, two years, because I shocked my old fan base, it's worth it. So Neve Campbell's in that space. And then Denise Richards, this is how we know her. So she's going to have to find in her career at some point a way out of being the siren sex bot, which she couldn't really do it. And Neve Campbell was trying to find her way out of being, you know, beloved by America. It's then like in a kind of meta way, really effective inside of the movie because Susie is the character we have to be most surprised by. exactly right so that like actually benefits movie and i think it's interesting because a lot like younger women and female performers are probably the characters we would point to the most who feel compelled to do that that's still happening it's happening with everybody all the time like i mean daniel radcliffe was like the thing i need to do after harry potter or at the end of harry potter is star an equus and show my dick on stage right no this is this is always going to be a thing to show like you can especially if you're associated deeply with an iconic character that has a grip on younger people and something about a coming-of-age tale in particular, there's a compulsion to try to break out of that. It's really hard with the TV. The 80s and 90s people very rarely were able to escape how big the show was. I'll tell you why. Even our guy Noah Wiley. How long did it take him to just not be E.R.'s Noah Wiley? Thriving on the pit. 20 years. Thriving on the pit, Dr. Robbie. 25 years. Emmy winner. There's still a movie. there was a TBS made for cable movie where he plays Steve Jobs like Pirates of the Silicon Valley yeah I remember watching that it was like late 90s you can't find the movie anywhere now yeah it's called Pirates of the Silicon Valley he is Steve Jobs and is Anthony Michael Hall Bill Gates in the movie like I think Anthony Michael Hall is Bill Gates in the movie it's a good little movie that's when I first realized Steve Jobs was the way he was so it took him a while to get out but I remember saying oh he can do other stuff right there but those 80 stars one thing about them and why they couldn't break out is because that was almost the last generation maybe you get to Fresh Prince of those primetime shows being actually about the kids yeah so the kids were the leads like so in different strokes it was about the Arnold and his but like the kids, Punky Brewster was about Punky Brewster. The whole show Blossom was about Blossom. The whole show was about those kids. Then they kind of stopped doing that. Like they, those shows didn't exist anymore. So people were like, Boy Meets World was the last kind of era. It's also just like volume, right? You know, TV shows now in the streaming era, it's six, eight, 10 episodes. Euphoria. Euphoria is on every three to five years. And those people are incredibly, incredibly famous and are doing like Dev Campbell could have been in Armageddon if Party 5 was doing 22 episodes right exactly it's 22 24 weeks of your year that those people are in your lives as that character like Zendaya there are a lot of people who are going to say Rue is my first association with Zendaya and then there are going to be way more people who would be baffled by that right but Rue for Zendaya is six hours with Rue every five years but that's Zendaya's version of being taken seriously as an actress, of giving you something a little darker. Because before then, Zendaya is on Disney, and then Zendaya does Dancing with the Stars when she's like 17, trying to get herself out there. I totally forgot that. She was like 17, she's on Dancing with the Stars, trying to get herself out there. Then she does music for a while, and she's still existing in youth culture. Like, she's young, pretty, Disney, Zendaya, then Spider-Man, then she goes, let me show that I'm a grown up and she does the root character. Jason Priestley and Luke Perry. They just weren't stuck doing 32 episodes a year on 90210. God only knows how many movies there were done. How could you say that about your most sacred text? Luke Perry tried. Luke Perry did try. But Euphoria, all those people became stars that were good on the show because they didn't have to do the show that much. Luke Perry ended up finding himself creatively later on in life because that's like actually A number one. He's good. these guys had their chances. Remember the terrible Calendar Girls movie with Jason Priestley in it? They didn't have it. No, you're probably right. They had their chances. They're like great college quarterbacks that just couldn't play in the NFL. Yeah, like Zendaya is one of our most talented and capable performers, but that's not actually a comp for any of the women. Lindsay Lohan was another one that started she came out of that Disney universe and actually. Parent Trap, one of the best movies ever made. She actually was able to part of that. But a lot of those, like all the shows my kids watched none of those kids really ended up kids that I thought were good actors when I watched the show, like Jesse and some of the other shows you wouldn't know. Miley, I guess, Lizzie McGuire. Some of these people got good stuff going on. Miley can be as an artist, yeah. But I'm talking like people that started out on those things and then became actual actors. Denise Richards, Seinfeld, memorable Seinfeld appearance, the daughter of an NBC executive. And she's bending over and George looks at her cleavage and it almost sabotages the pilot. She was in Melrose Place for a couple episodes as Lonnie Anderson's daughter trying to do a scheme on Dr. Michael Mancini. That happened. She was in Starship Troopers. That's right. Of course. A beloved movie. Absolutely. She was in Drop Dead Gorgeous and then Wild Things was when this really kicked off. And then everything culminated. She's in The World Is Not Enough in a Bond movie and she plays like a nuclear physicist or something. Nuclear physicist. And somehow isn't named after the category we have because we named after Elizabeth Shue. Dr. Christmas Jones. That would have been another good one. Denise Richards. And then she got Charlie Sheen. She met Charlie Sheen, and her career was never the same. Do you watch Million Dollar Listing LA? Or did you watch it when it was on? No. Oh, Great Real Estate Show. I'm surprised you didn't watch it. Denise Richards was on it last season as a friend of one of the brokers, Josh Flagg, just appeared in an episode. Really? Yes. I was like, oh, my God. It's Denise Richards. I saw her. It's wild. The Charlie Sheen documentary, which I did not like, but she was in that. But, yeah, this was it. This was a really hot. She flew very close to the sun in one movie, and that's kind of where it ended. I was going to save this for Apex Mountain, but let's do it now. It is. It is now. Emerging from a swimming pool in a bathing suit, sopping wet. is it this or Phoebe Cates no it's probably this it's probably this I'll tell you what I would say it's Phoebe Cates interesting Phoebe Cates from a cultural unpacked but this is like for that scene for that type of scene it's emerging from the swimming pool is probably that might be a tie I thought you meant whether or not this was the apex mountain of Phoebe Cates or the apex mountain of Denise Rich no specifically for emerging from a pool and your suit is clinging to you. We need more people emerging from pools. It's probably PBKs. Don't hate on Jessica Biel and Summer Catch. Oh, yeah. I mean, talk about a great movie. Talk about a seminal movie in my youth. Then we have Matt Dillon, who was a big up-and-comer in the 80s for a while and led a bunch of movies and was right at the forefront of that. Timothy Hunt and Cruise, all those guys. He was probably the most successful guy for a while. Outsiders had a big role just like from felt like he was going to be the most famous died down a little, came back in the mid-90s to die for, beautiful girls, in and out 98, wild things and there's something about Mary in the same years, just astonishing great job by him one of the leading tweeners oh yeah what happened to a lot of these guys and Kevin Bacon is in that crew too is the ceiling got set so fucking high by Hanks and Cruz and Brad Pitt and then the guys right under that ceiling if you're talking about like Bruce it was just an enormously high ceiling that there was a group of tweeners that you could really rely on to give you good performances and good movies Rob Lowe to a degree. Judd Nelson for two years Judd fucked it up but like a lot of for a while Emilio Estevez was in there for a while he's still there for me but like but to me all of those guys in there like who was the best of those guys that would lead those types of movies leading movies but not like a plus list movie stars he was way up there this is like the perfect use of him and really this is the perfect year for him because he gets to be so yeah funny and there's something about mary but in this movie it's like he is handsome enough and enough of a leading man to be convincing not only in the like you know you think of the opening stretch of the film where you kind of the camera's initially like his eyes and then we move to the back of his head and every one of the students is looking at him and they all want to fuck him and you're like oh he can have this effect on people but he's also a little off enough like just a little creepy enough that you buy every subsequent situation and reveal across the film yeah then you believe it when you get the line from ray like in the jimmy scene you know he didn't have to work his way through college on a boat. Like he was there on an athletic scholarship at Miami. You believe that. So you kind of think that he's enough of a creep to be fucking his students and become embroiled in this plot. But he's also kind of funny in a, in like a very under the radar way. It's a charming, kind of funny. It was a great villain in my bodyguard. Oh yeah. Which is an awesome movie that is probably too old now to do. You know, you know what that movie is? No. He's the villain. He's like a high school bully. And this kid who's getting bullied by him hires this kind of big, scary kid to be his bodyguard. And it's just really good. And Matt Dillon is like a great villain in it. I would think about guys like Matt Dillon. Because you know for a long time I felt like Nicolas Cage was kind of in that purgatory And then Leaving Las Vegas comes out and you go well no There more coming out of him Yeah there more to him But this role is perfect for him because the character can't really be anything. He's never what we think that he is. He's actually this version of the erotic thriller guy from earlier in the decade. Earlier in the decade, the erotic thriller was take beautiful, crazy beautiful lady, put them with the most straight-laced male, and then watch this lady's sexuality sort of corrupt this guy. Yeah, it's like playing on our expectations that he could actually be the leading man. Right. But isn't. But he isn't. At the end, he's basically the pansy, not the, what's the word I'm looking for? Patsy? Patsy. Patsy. Patsy. I couldn't find it. The patsy of the entire film. He's just handsome enough to have everybody want to fuck him. but he's also dumb enough to be played. To be outmaneuvered by a high school student. Kind of looks like Craig a little bit. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's great. I don't know where I'm going either. I could turn bad. You don't know. How do you feel about sailing? I like sailing. Yeah? You gotta work a winch. Guess what? No, I'm waiting for it. For my turn? I'm waiting for your dog's time to be revealed. I know it's in the air. Sailing class. I know it's in the air. I'm like, hey, Craig. Yeah. I don't buy it. your whole act your whole thing don't get nervous I want to let you know right now I've been on to you since start I don't buy it Craig ever since American Gangster when I was like you should have shot him in the head oh no shot him in the heart so you can see him I know what's happening the real reveal on the fantasy show that you've been an extra on a bunch of movies but can't remember what they were I don't remember which fast movie it was serial killer Matt Dillon I think the issue with his career and it was a great career he was nominated for an Oscar talk about his prime Crash that's part of the problem that was one of our only rewatchable roasts that we've done here's the thing he was the original choice for Butch in Pulp Fiction and couldn't do it or turned it down and ended up going to Bruce Willis. Man. And I think he might have had another thing. It might have been I can't do it or I'm already committed to this other piece. I think that really would have been good for him. And then Kevin Bacon's the last one we got to talk about. Yeah. You know, at this point, I think Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon existed. In 98? Because he had been in so many movies. Yeah. In the late 90s, it kind of started. Yeah. Everybody liked him. He kept having resurgences And he's another tweener Like what Van was just talking about He had his moment with Footloose He was always at his best as the second, third Scotty Pippen type guy And this was perfect for him And then we're going to talk about him more later When was River Wild? 94? The random one was Bill Murray being in this It's astonishing Did you know he was in this, Craig? No, no idea He was delightful, I thought he was so good in it I really enjoyed him. Really strange. He changed the tone of the movie in a nice way. It radically changes the tone of the movie. It's one of the more emblematic things of, like, I don't quite know how the movie gets away with something that jarring as a show. Mike has been doing for a little bit. It's delightful. But, yeah, I really, I loved him. It's difficult if you weren't around then. Like, Bill Murray is now, of course, but even more so then, was just a massive massive huge gigantic star and a comedy staple this is post Groundhog's day this is the motherfucker from Ghostbusters the second one in the early 90s so yeah he's back to see him in the movie it almost in some way gave the movie an odd credibility like this who would be the person right now in this movie that would have the Bill Murray bump that would like bump Will Ferrell was the detective. You'd be like, whoa, Will Ferrell. What's he doing in there? Maybe even a little more famous than Will Ferrell. Will Ferrell maybe in 2011 or 2012. I wish more stars did this. Because apparently he was just buddies with the director of this movie. And he was like, can I be in it? And they're like, sure. And 10 minutes of a star just being like, you know what? I don't need to get $10 million to do this. I'll just go in and have fun. It makes the movie so much better. I've always said this is what I wish people like Cruise and a couple others had just been like, yeah, I'll show up for a week and film five scenes and get out. He's doing 20 minutes in the movie, right? And it actually, like, it's funny to look back and see that Kevin Bacon has lead billing on the movie, which, like, I guess in terms of his celebrity and his stature makes sense, but in terms of the role of Ray Duquette in the film really doesn't make sense at all, actually. But Bill Murray, you do kind of forget he's in the film until you go watch it. There's so many delightful little things that kind of prep you subtly, even though the tone is really out of sync with the rest of the movie for, like, what we're watching. You know, the fact that he's wearing the fake neck brace, he's like, oh, I don't have to wear it all the time. The insurance guy was here earlier. And then you go back to his office and you pan the wall and it's like all of his clients thanking him in their fake crutches and their fake braces because he's like, I'm running cons. So even though the fifth stinger, you know, the reveal that he was in on it with Susie the whole time was apparently like added late. Yeah. One of the more shocking nuggets about this movie. you're actually maybe most prepared the entire time for him to be revealed as a part of the plot because he's like a scumbag he's a con man and also it's bill murray yeah so the whole time that you're looking at the movie at least for me you're like i'm waiting for the reason why is bill murray here why he's in the movie that's what's weird about it is like that wasn't apparently wasn't why he was there he wasn't brought in to like be the big reveal at the end handing over a briefcase the cast. They're like, you're here. Maybe we should do it. It's like asking somebody to join the rewatchables. They're like, yeah, sure. I'm free Friday. I'm available. He literally, the director was John McNaughton, who they did Mad Dog and Glory with Robert De Niro, which is a weird movie. But that guy did Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer, which was one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in the theater, especially because I was in the theater with legitimately unsettling. It's a pass for me. Like a legitimately, I went through this thing when I was a kid, when I wanted to see every movie that was rated NC-17. When I first found out about NC-17, if I saw NC-17, I just grabbed it. Legitimately unsettling movie. That's why Michael Rooker, for a long time, couldn't deal with it. Interesting. Yeah, because like he, the legitimately unsettling movie. Yeah, I've said this before, but I saw it in Boston, the Kenmore Theater by myself, and there was like six, seven other people by themselves. and like halfway through the theater you start kind of doing this like is this how I'm going to die? Is somebody here like getting ideas? I'm going to watch half of this movie then kill somebody. So he's and is having fun stage here because he's in Kingpin, Wild Things, Rushmore, Bill Murray's just doing he's like yeah sure I'll do this. We'll take a break and then there's a couple other things we have to talk about before we get to the categories. Kevin Bacon said in an interview that there were so many lies and twists in the script, they had to actually figure out a way to keep track of what the motivations were as they're filming it based on what they should know and shouldn't know. Yep. This movie has so many twists. I think it's the only time I've ever seen a closing credits where then they kind of explain the movie. Yeah. The version of the movie you're watching, they want you to experience it a certain way and then it's over and you're like, oh, I know. Now I know it was Neve Campbell. Right. And then they're like, no, actually, we're going to go backwards. Here's some other stuff that now we're going to, and I've never seen that work. I can't believe it worked because I love it. I love the closing credits. I would say that like a key performer in a film coming out in interviews and saying basically every time we went to act out a scene, we had to be reminded of what our characters' motivations were and what was happening when because the plot was so deranged and convoluted and full of twists and turns that we couldn't remember who we were supposed to be, why we were supposed to be doing what we were doing is maybe beyond borderline disqualifying for the plot and script of the film. Just part of the lore here. It just makes us love it more. It's like the absurdity and the fact that like simultaneously nothing about the story holds up to scrutiny but also the fact that it doesn't hold up to scrutiny is part of its charm. Like, they're just feeling a myth. There's like a hundred nitpicks in this. I only have one nitpick. One real. We'll get to it. It's more about us. A question for us. Um, there's only one other movie that when I was thinking about this, that I thought about that towards the end of the film, the twist, then you go back through the film with the character and it changes Angel Heart. Oh, Lucifer, Lucifer. And then you realize that he's actually killed all of these people. And then he's on the elevator to hell and he's realizing it. And you're spoiling New Orleans month. Oh, my bad. Yeah. New Orleans month. but in a real way the movie is effective in doing the same thing for every character making a hero then making a villain then making a hero and then making a villain by the end of this film the biggest victim in the entire movie is Kelly Kelly Van Ryan Kelly Van Ryan because she is doing everything that she's doing just because she's in love with the older guidance counselor at her school who has manipulated her. I can't tell in the movie whether or not Neve Campbell's character is the hero or the villain. Because she's, she gets treated like a piece of shit because she's from the wrong side of the tracks, so she's taking it out on all of these upper crust people, but at the same time, she really fucks over a lot of people and kills them all. McDonough liked that though. He was like, who wins in the end? The girl in the trailer park. I think the movie's point of view is that she's the hero. Right. And that, like, she managed to take out all of these people who in some way contributed to, like, her plight. Right. Yeah, he said, some of us had parents who insisted their children have an education, go to college, escape all that. Other ones, parents didn't care if their kid dropped out of school. That's where my heart always is. There you go. There with the trailer parks. Kevin Bacon said the script was the trashiest thing you ever read. Couldn't wait to do it. Craig Century Club this movie is 108 minutes it's a plus I guess it's a minus 8 for you wonderful score no no it's perfect 108 you wouldn't cut 8 no I have problems with I think there should have been an extra 60 seconds in this movie that I was promised that was not there well did you watch the unrated extended cut well that I thought can we just do it now the pool scene is the famous scene from this movie I have never seen this movie, but I know that scene. Yeah. It's not in the movie on Netflix. Was it not in theaters, that scene? The pool scene's on Netflix, but it's a shorter version. They don't really do anything. The scene that is the famous scene is she takes her top off in the pool, which is not in the Netflix. Oh, no, not in the original cut. No, that wasn't it. That was not in the original movie. You didn't see that. Oh, wow. It goes from her, she gets out of the pool, he's on the phone, they fight, and then you're out. could make kiss for like a second and then it kind of transitions into the police department. Yeah, you get the finger in the mouth. Oh, you are scared. You do get Kevin Bacon with the camera. He's in there. Genuinely might be my single favorite moment in the film. Dressed down. He's dressed down. He's nice. He's squeezy now. Yeah, you're prepared for anything with that. And then the talk to him watching it on the monitor. When did the famous scene then become famous? I think the Motel 3 film is also a very famous film. And I didn't know about that. The thing was much more famous to me. But in the 2000s, we got into the unrated era. Director's Cut, unrated era, with a new extra 15 minutes. And so they would get you to go buy the DVD by doing that. So by the time the shit probably got to the internet. Complimentary vial of hand cream. 15 extra minutes. Watch Party, best setting for a watch or rewatch. Solo is an option here. 5 o'clocker or you could do like what Mallory had our parents are now asleep let's go grab wild things so like for that when you're young in those formative years you know and the next thing that happens at those parties is spin the bottle or seven minutes in heaven or something like that boy rest in peace dad this was one of dad's all time great goddamns my dad had great goddamns we didn't know he walking out, he got his saddle boy, I wish my sister would see, he got his saddle over his me and Ryan, we looking at the movie my dad go, what they doing? then he see, and his Richard stays on top off, he goes, god damn I'll be careful now why there's too much of this? and then he went outside and sat on the horse up the road great god damn that would be a good category, the god damn category some good god damns on him when he saw stuff and heard stuff $20 million budget made 67.2 million, followed by three directed DVD sequels, which is another sign we're in the right hands. Crazy. Wild Things 2, Wild Things Diamonds in the Rough, and Wild Things Foursome. One of the best titles ever. I have no idea what happens in those movies or who's in them, but I'm sure they're on Tubi. I think the titles tell you everything you need to know. One of them I watched because it had one of the great beauties. You guys remember Layla Arciera? Remember her? No. Oh, man. She was in the Q-Tip video. I think it was Vibrant Thing. And then she was on a show called Son of the Beach. Remember Son of the Beach? That was produced by Howard Stern. Okay, she was on that show. And then she did the Wild Things movie. And we thought that maybe she was going to have her Denise Richards moment. She's always beautiful. So I went to see it, but she didn't. You know, it's funny. The Denise Richards moment, there's probably a lot, dozens of actresses who were probably waiting for a moment like that and it just never happened. Never happened, yeah. Yeah, it really, like, it's time, movie, scene. Yeah. It has to hit the zeitgeist in some way, and it happened. It hit it for Roger Ebert. Sure did. This is an all-time Roger Ebert. Three stars for Raj. Are you surprised? Yeah. Incredible. Lurid trash with a plot so twisted they're still explaining it during the closing titles. It's like a three-way collision between a softcore sex film, a soap opera, and a B-grade noir. I loved it. We're still back. Some did it perfectly, honestly. Captured it. Actually, you said I liked it, not I loved it. Yo, look. He's right. There used to be a place in our movie-making culture for well-made trash. Yeah, absolutely. But here's the thing. A movie that was just entertaining. But they're trying to make this movie all the time. They just fuck it up all the time. You could go anywhere. Pick a streamer. No. There's 50 versions of this movie, and they fucked them up. They had the wrong star. the plot's bad. They're taking it too seriously. What's good about this is they know what they're making the whole time and they're having a good time as they do. It also gets back to what you guys were saying at the beginning, the illicit nature of, oh, if you go see this, you'll see boobs or you'll see a dick. Actually, on the Phoebe Cades Fast Times front, in Stranger Things, when they work at the family video store, one of the things Steve Harrington said is, you know who pauses Fast Times at 58 minutes or whatever, people who like boobies, right? Like, the narrative springs up around the film. You don't, to your point from earlier, you don't need to do that today. No. So there's not the same, like, word of mouth. There's not the same kind of cult following around the movie because it's not, like, there's nothing illicit about it anymore. That stuff's everywhere. You know what? Could you make an argument that maybe the housemaid is sort of... But that's not because people are like, I need to go see the housemaid to see Spinelli. a queenie in a certain way. You can get that. You can go buy her bathwater. I like your point, though. You know? Housemaid, which I thought was really egregiously terrible. Terrible, yeah. I watched the whole thing, and I do think it was trying to do some of the Wild Things stuff. It didn't have the sense of humor that Wild Things has, I think. Right. And it obviously didn't have anyone like Bill Murray just popping in for time. Wild Things is very self-aware in a way that obviously, like, some people don't appreciate and some people are still cherishing decades later, like us. but it's also, it's kind of beautiful. Like, everyone looks good. It's sleazy. South Florida is a character. We should have talked about South Florida. It's just a great movie location. It really is. Because you can go to the rich part. You can go to the grimier part where they're like fucking wrestling alligators and like these dive bars that look really cool. They're swamps. They're trying to tap into that spirit in like Outer Banks. You know, very like pogues and kooks, right? two sides of this community, this resort town. Well, a movie that did it really well that's been on the rewatchables list for two years that I know Van has revisited many times, out of time, Denzel Walsh. Oh, hell yeah. Another fucking awesome movie, which has now been ripped off by the His and Her show on Netflix. It's the same premise of this cop. He was involved with the lady that just got murdered, but doesn't want to find out yet. It kind of invented that. I don't remember seeing that before. Out of time is moving fast. It's moving fast and it's very sweaty. And it's just Denzel being all the Denzel pieces I like. He's up to stuff. He's sweaty. He's horny. Do you know Heaven's Prisoners with Alec Baldwin? No. That's New Orleans month. Sweaty, southern movie. I'm interested. I've told this story before, but Jack and I went to see that and I spilled the popcorn right before the nude scene and he went down to pick it up and missed the nude scene. I'm still upset about it. I know. That still brings it up every less in a while But yeah So like South Florida works and then all the subtext Between the classes and stuff Yeah The movie gives you a lot to look at Heaven's Prisoners, Angel's Heart Angel Heart New Orleans Month Sounds like a little kid movie Heaven's Prisoners, Angel Heart, Tightrope with Clint Eastwood Okay, that's a good one Might be a one for us month Yeah It's when we're off Netflix and we're on like stars. Mostly watchable scenes. I really enjoy the boating, the one-person boating class. Always aggressive when you have one person in the class. I always like when they have movies like that. There are technically other students who very quickly leave their other boats, but he's mostly giving attention. All he cares about is... Anyway, we go from that to the Jeep ride to the Van Ryans, which has a big VR on the gates. During this little stretch. We have Kelly Van Ryan acting all flirty with Matt Dillon. We have Kelly Van Ryan and Susie seeing each other and being bitchy and she does that weird tongue thing. We have Sandra the mom coming out with the bikini on. And then we have Kid Cudi Presented Happiness Award winner because we have Third Eye Blind right into Why Can't We Be Friends. Who's fucking cranking it? I don't know what happened with the soundtrack. It's like they ran out of money 40 minutes in. We're on this amazing pace of late 90s music and it just ends. such a good call. I thought the same thing. I was like, oh my god, we're cooking with jazz music. Yeah, where's Everclear? It sounds like Everclear's lawyer stops and then all of a sudden we ran out of money. Actually, I think maybe it was thematic because the early parts of his movies, we're in high school. Maybe when things turn, all you get is like the jazz score. Yeah, because some of it's diegetic. Like, they're actually listening to those songs driving in the Jeep. Can we talk about Sandra, the mom? I would love to. Teresa Randolph. I don't know anyone who can handle my boat the way you can. Incredible stuff. Every line she says sounds like it came right out of a porn. Emasculates homeboy from behind. Frankie. That was tough. He seemed like he was doing a good job. I thought he was handling her boat perfectly. Some incredible physics in that scene because they're obviously nude and fucking, but she's wearing high heels and he's holding the heels. Yeah. For leverage. Really memorable. He's trying to live up to what Sam Lombardo. He's trying to get every bit of. He's trying to do a Sam Lombardo. you can't do it. Teresa Russo is the actress. She had a cup of coffee in the 80s. Oh, yeah. Black Widow. Deborah Winger. Whore. One of my all-time fans. She basically, like, discount Kathleen Turner. If Kathleen Turner turned it down, she was there. They look a lot like borderline doppelganger. Not a very good actress, unfortunately. She sucks in this movie. She sucks for all the right reasons, though. I know. It works, but every line is delivered. Really bad. But like, Whore was one of the films that I would watch. Ken Russell's Whore. Ken Russell's Whore. I was telling myself, it was like, just an amazing 4K transfer of Whore. Arrow video. Hey, I'm going to watch Whore. I watched the 4K of this. The Arrow transfer and it was great. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I have a whole bunch of deleted scenes, all kinds of things. The car wash scene. In my notes, I wrote down. Where's your hose, Mr. Simmons? Mel, come on. In my notes. Come on. I was going to open the pod with that but there wasn't an opportunity that's going to get cut out no not cut out of the pod cut out of social media right in front of the Jeep in this car wash scene I wrote that in my notes two words just gratuitous exclamation point there's fucking going for it in this thing the I want what I want needle drop here is I think iconic it's unbelievable this is Dan didn't even see the rest of the movie immediate wave the five year waiting period for the white girl he's like done I don't need to see the rest of the movie there are a couple of people that when they burst onto the scene they burst onto that motherfucker and this is one of them you see her she is perfectly beautiful Oh my God. He's doing this to the 86 Celtics? Yeah, for sure. Like there's a couple of times, maybe you could argue live. Tyler had a moment like that. Maybe. It would be funny if we blew out the White Girl Hall of Fame and made it like an actual show like the ESPYs with like presenters. I'm into it. Me, RG3. You know what I mean? People are the people we do it. People get mad, but like we have this moment. Please welcome Vivica Fox and Emmanuel Acho. next scene I had to write this is not one of the most rewatchable scenes but it is for me Kelly tells her mom what happens what happened it's probably the worst two minutes of acting in rewatchable history you're not compelled by the I'm reaching to gently pet my daughter's head and calm her but I don't know how to make an emotional connection I feel like Teresa Russell is reading cue cards behind her Richard's head. She's so bad. What? Something happened to you? What's wrong, my dear? It's just, you can't, and then it cuts to the police station and her saying the line, my daughter does not get raped in Blue Bay. That was her big Oscars moment. That's one of the most absurd lines in movie history. It's a crazy line. It's a shocking line. But it is actually weirdly, like, again, it's a microcosm for the movie. It's weirdly effective. It's like she's making this about her and herself. Sam Lombardo's not going to do that to me. Yeah, when people are like, why didn't Denise Richards have a bigger career? Like, just the two minutes is probably just not a great actor. Sandra also. Teresa Russell, neither. The moment when she's like, they're talking about the dad, right? Establishing some key, like, original wound origin story trauma there for Kelly. Yeah. And then Sandra Van Ryn is just like, he didn't have to kill himself. Yeah. He didn't have to do it. Just another shocking and crazy line in this movie. This is one of my probably unanswerable questions. We'll get to it later. Yeah, I have it as well. Would you have given her the Jed Nelson award for somebody who's just in a completely different movie? Or do you feel like she's in this movie? There's another movie going on where she's like banging the pool boy. But that is this movie. That's literally this movie. This movie is all the movies. That's what makes it memorable. Susie tells the police what happened. It's been good to have Campbell. The second day courtroom scene with Bill Murray. Yeah, the trial is just unbelievable. The trial is great stuff. The tabloid frenzy news reporters outside kind of giving you a sense of the town and how they're all interested in the drama and the voyeuristic gawking. The Blue Bay Tribune. Don't we just love the sleazy genius lawyer? The lawyer that's not in, not the, what's the guy's name, Tom Baxter or whatever it is. Not that guy, but the guy that's just like the sleazy genius, like my cousin Vinny or whomever, the bruiser from the Rain Man or whatever. to God that's just fucking awesome at being a lawyer, but he's... He'll break every rule. Yeah. The threesome. Have some research on this scene. Fantastic. Now he's probably read all of it. Did you do it all on your work computer? Yes. Richard's inner lawyer had a detailed contract about how much nudity would be filmed, including whether they would have to use a body double. She did not. Film the scene after drinking a pitcher of margaritas with Neve Campbell who's nervous. Campbell's contract strict no nudity clause, she claims. She says she enjoyed kissing Richards. It was fun. We just sort of went and did it. Go daddy. Brought a bottle of wine in my trailer. Got drunk first. I'm going to make out with a girl for the first time in my life. It's so interesting that a lot of times you learn things about yourself and have new experiences when shooting a scene. There's things you wouldn't normally do in your life. Yeah. That's how I feel about making the rewatchables. to learn so much about myself every time we talk about a movie together. Richard said, at one point it's four in the morning. I guess this is a different scene, but it's four in the morning. I'm half naked in a swimming pool. I'm making out with Nev Campbell. What am I doing here? Having a great time. The motel scene is unbelievable. So, there just weren't a lot of threesomes in movies in the 80s and 90s. I could think of only a couple. There was the movie called Threesome with Josh Charles. The movie, yeah. I don't remember Three of Hearts, whether they all went at it together. They didn't do it. Basic Instinct hinted at it, but I don't know if it ever happened. Almost, but nah, didn't really get there. This was kind of taboo. I think that's why this scene was a big deal, because it just didn't happen. There was an exploration of sex, but they would stop before it made their characters look a little too deviant, which is why movies like Showgirls and Basic Instinct were important because they kind of leaned into that. And then those movies allow movies like this to kind of go a little bit further. There's a great moment in the threesome that definitely wasn't in the script because there's not much dialogue in the threesome once it actually gets started. In the middle of it, Matt Dillon just goes, yeah. Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on. That's what only did Matt Dillon. Hold on, is that your flex category? No, this is my great shot, Gordo. Oh, you brought us, you brought us from. This is my great shot, Gordo. Oh. I peeped that when I was in the theater Matt Dillon as evil Superman look he just goes yeah with the evil Superman Elvis I will always remember that I'm glad you peed that because you're just like me look at him he's into it baby Oh, my God. That's my great shot. You spent like $3 of ink to bring that up. That's a real, like, we need the knee to be angled exactly here so we can't see the throbbing erection. This is a very memorable and meaningful scene. But I honestly think he was totally in the moment. Oh, no question. Yeah. The sex scene part of that is iconic and great. Changed a lot of lives. That's, I mean, the movie is full of twists. this is like a genuinely great twist that's where the whole movie becomes the movie that it is he sees the walks in he sees the footprints you flash to Kelly you're like what's about to happen and you realize they're in cahoots then Suzy emerges and you realize they're all in cahoots and so it's just an actual like thrilling plot moment coupled with the sex the champagne bottle under the towel prepping you later for like the harpoon gun you know all of it what she's talking about is rarer than you think it is like a genuine oh my god into a sex scene that's pivotal in the movie that's pivotal in the movie that has a real thematic purpose now if you take a movie like Basic Instinct the sex scene is used to illustrate the tone of the movie like the desperation of the movie, him going over the deep end, all of that stuff like that but I would connect this more to her showing her regime in that film, which is actually an important thing to Bill actually an important thing I don't know if that's like a Louisiana actually an important thing for that character to do demonstrating her power demonstrating her power of everyone but this is not just a sort of like let's throw it into the film to get oohs and ahs this is an important scene in the movie this is like you know we have our era Thrones especially with like sex position but this is not It is that in some way in that, like, you can't understand the movie without it. But this isn't, like, Littlefinger just talking about other characters and then saying to Roz, like, play with her ass. You know? Yeah. This is action. Just watch that in the sauna. Again, also left an impression. Yeah, I bet you did. I bet you did. I was like, well, the sauna's getting hot. Steamy masterpiece indeed. Jesus. It's great. That's the most rewatchable scene in the movie. The all-female pool scene, which is more funny for the Kevin Bacon reaction. he's just hilarious in this unbelievable the cut to him and the wide eyes that's another Tommy how's the peeping moment oh yeah Tommy how's the peeping then to the Dylan Bacon reveal in the shower sure it's like oh these guys are working together bruh when I was in the movie theater I thought they were going to hook up I halfway expected them to fuck they were supposed to when I was in the movie theater I was like oh shit they're in a relationship and there's the whole thing. The vibe is palpable. The ending and then the closing credits ending would be the other two. What do you got for most rewatchable now? I think the pool scene is a runner-up, I think, but it has to be the most helpful. This is one of the most rewatchable scenes in a decade. Yeah, because it's got the reveal. I would recommend the unrated extended cut of the pool scene, though, for anyone who hasn't checked it out. Give it a go. People have checked it out. Yeah! Evil Superman. two chicks on them. Look at this son of a bitch. Look at the yeah down there. It's incredible. I like that there's a period. You needed punctuation there. What's the most 1998 thing about this movie? A couple contenders. What do you have? I only had two contenders. I had two. I think we already talked about the soundtrack. But like Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, Third Eye Blind is just very of its time. I would say the other is teachers fucking their students. Also in 1998 when Pacey comes into our lives in Dawson's Creek. This is a big moment for this. 99 is like the Cordelia Wesley, not a teacher but still an adult in the school plot and Buffy, etc. So just very of its moment. To Die For. We were going back over. What was the one with I mean, it's basically Lolita remade. The one where Alicia Silverstone and Carrie Elway's in it. What's that joint? Oh, The Crush. We were doing one of these movies like a year It a normal part of a plot I could tell you guys why because it that type of thing just honestly wasn as frowned upon as far as huge age gaps I'm not going to get to the 90s. The 90s were completely different. It was a completely different time with that. But they were doing this stuff all the time in movies and TV and stuff. You could probably just say the cast. I mean, if I told you, if I said, guess the year this movie came out, and I said, Neve Campbell, Matt Dillon, Denise Richards, and Kevin Bacon, what year? I mean, you're probably guessing late night. Yeah, you would go late night. That must be a fun trivia game. Yeah, for sure. You know? I had two. I have no ballistics for the Kelly Van Ryan murder. Yeah. They're just solving that now in five minutes. Yeah. I had that in another category, but it's, yeah. And then the obvious winner is Bacon's video camera. That big half camera. Yeah, of course. That thing was gone five years later. Those things were half the size. But 10 years earlier, he would have had, like, it would have been, like, taking up his whole shoulder. Right. Now he's just using his iPhone. What stage is the best? What do you have now? I think Stingers. You know, this is the era of the Stinger with the MCU, and especially the mid-credits Stinger. You know, you're not getting five Stingers in the Guardians of the Galaxy credits. It's true. If not for this, thruffles. This is really a big moment for thruffles. Thruffles. Yeah. You know, I'm sure we get the lesson, like, threesomes really work out. I mean, it's hard enough for one person to keep a secret, let alone three. But I don't know that that was the takeaway for most of the impressionable youths watching it. They were like, should I hook up with more than one person at once? I think the class warfare elements of the story certainly, like, are effective. And you get little, it is the actually most, like, subtle. We're actually trying to say something, I guess, along with, like, maybe, like, the Greek mythology, you know, Helios incorporations into the story. But, like, you know, the fact that Death on the Installment Plan is, like, the book in Susie's hand at the trailer park. And she's like, you think, oh, you think I'm, like, just trash, like my mom, et cetera, all of that. I think it makes the movie have a little more heft when you revisit it. Short Shorts. Ah. Great movie for Short Shorts. And Short Shorts are back. Kind of right as it was kind of trying to come back after the Fab Five. Yeah. It was a late 90s reversion back to the Short Shorts. And then we went longer. Yeah. The Sailing Shorts. Yeah. on Sam. Very memorable. What do you have? Number one. Just Goth. Oh, yeah, sure. Goth is still around. Yeah. Goth still putting Yeah, her look is still a look. Yeah, absolutely. Goth is still around. They're still doing their thing. Like, one of my little nieces, Goth, she's doing their thing. It's like, damn, there was Goth when I was in school and there's still Goth. Now, Goth putting up numbers. Shout out to Goth. But Not just that, but I don't want to make the pod uncomfortable, but South Florida sex scandals. Uh-huh. They're like. Have aged the best. I feel comfortable. The best. Age the best. South Florida sex scandals with everything that's in the news now. How about this? We all know this is Florida's fucking. Yeah. Like Tiger Woods. Yeah. All of that. Oh, yeah. All of that. South Florida. Florida man. All of that stuff. Those things are around and come all the time. The owner of the Patriots, don't leave him out. The owner of the Patriots going down there. You know I was going there. Don't leave him out. That was South Florida. Don't wait for us. South Florida sex scandals the whole nine. Yeah. Well, if you just read the plot of this movie as an actual news story, and you're like, what state do you think this happened in? Oh, of course it's Florida. No question. And then USA was Robert Kraft there. I would also. Yeah. I would also have Woods Age is the best just South Florida as a location for movies I have to pivot on this I have to go I've got to swerve on this this is my candidate for weakest link of the film because I think they don't maybe it's my hottest take and I didn't even realize it's the hottest take I don't I think that South Florida is used very well the Blue Bay and the Everglades as atmosphere and setting but not really underutilized for plot I like the atmosphere in the setting. And I would argue the plot with some of those weird dive bars that they have, which one of them is called Smiling Jack's Fish Cam. But I just like New Orleans and this area of Florida for movies. I haven't been picking Knit, but I just find it unacceptable and difficult to believe that one of these alligators doesn't actually eat anybody at any point. Why does that not happen? That should happen. Then I'd have South Florida as the winner. That's the thing. So to me, the backdrop kind of makes it the sexiness of it, the neo-noir of, you know, the same reason. The humidity and the stickiness. The same reason why A Time to Kill feels like such a desperate movie because it's like not only is there racism, but it's just fucking hot, man. Can we get some air conditioning in here? That's why is everybody so upset. And so that works. But to your point, if maybe somebody being found in the Everglades or something like that, then maybe that would make a little more sense. Okay. Shower side dick. I mean, we don't get Affleck's side dick in Gone Girl without what Kevin Bacon does here. We owe it to him. He does pave the way. We owe it to him. He does pave the way. The poster I have for What's Saged the Best. It's just a great poster. It is a fantastic poster. Really good. Kind of tells you what the movie is. Yeah. The two women together look great. Yeah. I really like the actress who played the other police officer. Her name is Gaffney and Ruben Vega. You know? Never really in anything after this. Very strange IMDb. I think she was in the Heights. That was where it eventually landed for her. And then, as I mentioned earlier, any movie with a MILF saying things like, I don't know anyone who can handle my boat the way you can. Incredible stuff. So empowered. We're going to take one more break and then hit the rest of the categories. Great shot, Gordo. Van already submitted his nominee, which I thought was great. I would also throw in a wet post-car crash. Denise Richards staring at Dylan with the... That's a very good one. Stop and wet in the foyer. Her friend leaves. He's trying to find the thing. He comes back in and she's just... We go up from the bottom. He goes in for the coupon. That's really good. I would pick Kelly emerging from the community pool when Ray's in the sheer blue bathing suit. Tennessee's Benihana war for scene stealing location. The Van Ryan home, right? I mean, this is incredible. I know if that home is in South Florida, but I thought the house was cool. Great use of the balcony, the guest house, the gun cabinet, the boat dock, all of it. I like the Tropic Motel. The motel is also fantastic. I'm going to go back here later, but I like the Tropic Motel. Dan, you have a flex category. My flex category is how would Van Lathan get out of this one? Okay. I'm not going for a list. So my girl sees me leaving the Tropic Motel with two young white women. Yeah. um listen here's the deal uh i was at the traffic motel okay i was with these two young white women but i did it for us okay this is also to be clear after the rest of the plot has is intact this is after the trial just you have no this is just me in this situation you in the motel yeah okay i did it for us and let me tell you why like i'm a podcaster and a lot of times people say van's obsessed with race. He puts race in every single conversation. It's black, black, black, black, black. I wanted to reach out to the white community. I wanted to reach out. What better way than to get two younger white ladies and talk to them? So I'm like, let's have a conversation. We're going to go to the Tropic Motel because I don't want to be seen out in public. You get shot by TMZ. You know they would like to get me. So I want to be seen. Well done teacher in the community. I want to go out there and talk today. This is what happens. First of all, those girls do not go to Blue Bay High School. I know you heard that, but that's not where they go. They're both 25. Those girls go to Miami. So we get inside the room, and what do they tell me? They're gigantic fans of me, Joel, Tate, and the Duke. So we're in there, we're raising the roof, chapel rowing us all, we're having a whole conversation. He just wanted to talk about Carson Beck. I'll reach out to them. And then guess what happens? Haley brings up the fourth and five that Mendoza converted to really destroy Miami and then Hannah starts crying because that really hurt them as Miami fans sure one of them brings out some champagne to calm the thing down and then the champagne gets popped that's probably what you smelling a little bit got on me I screamed out yeah but it was just because I had champagne a while because it was like, wow, yeah, I was excited about it. I ended up talking to them for a long time and really telling them that I think Miami has the opportunity to cook the ball. But then I had to shower because I had champagne on me. Yeah, then I had to pay my clothes off. I had to shower, I had to champagne on me. I think Miami will be back. We end up talking. We really get to a place where I feel like everybody was satisfied. Why was Isabella Danger there, though? She was outside just making sure that everybody knew how to get there. I lost my phone. Two things. Number one, first of all, tell your friends not to be watching what I'm doing when I'm leaving the Tropic Motel. If they had a man, maybe they wouldn't be worried about what I'm doing. Secondly, if you think that we are going to be able to ignore Listen, you've never been in this situation. You've got to go into detail. If you think that we're going to be able to ignore this part of the population and still win in 2028, you're crazy. I think I convinced them to vote Democrat. So I did this for us. We can trigger the state. Yeah, we could still, we have to win Florida. I did this for us. Haley and Hannah are friends of the family now. They're coming over. I'm going to introduce them to Jomie, the whole nine. I think we're good. It's amazing stuff. Thank you. It's amazing. Just one of the best. Butch's Girlfriend Award, week link of the film. Now we can talk about how the original screenplay and conflicting information of how close they came to filming it but these guys were supposed to be gay at the end of the movie. Is that next? Yeah. There's supposed to be a shower sex scene with Kevin Bacon and Matt Dillon. I don't think they would have gone that far because this movie is pretty tame for the sex scenes even though... There seems to be conflicting reports on who was the one who said they didn't want it to be. I think it's pretty clear if you listen to their interview where Matt Dillon's just like, I'm really glad we didn't do it. He's like, Kevin really wanted to, though. I think the conflicting part is did he shut it down day of? Right. But it was supposed to be in there, and gosh, it just makes more sense if that's what happens. I always kind of, it's funny, because I never researched this movie, but I've obviously seen it over the years, and I always thought they were just insinuating stuff, because it was the 90s, and they didn't want to cross the line. Right. But now it makes more sense. Why is he showering? who opens the door and the guy's like howdy partner you go over to your buddy's house take a shower here's my dick here's a coarse light and my dick exactly it makes much more sense for him to go in and strike up this type of bomb with him if they are fucking because if not you don't just the first thing y'all do as new friends is not a scheme to kill a bunch of people That's the implication not only in the shower scene and the hotel scene, but also then when we get the pickup at the bar. Like, he's there to pick him up. Yeah, he's like, you've got to kind of come on to him, and that's the thing that's going to. I have cutting this out or not filming it ultimately as a what's aged the worst. I think the movie makes me a lot more sense if this is actually there rather than just implied. It makes it a better movie. Well, that leads us to the Mallory Rubin Award for did this movie need a better sex scene? It needed that. I think, again, just reminding everyone that the pool scene is like, So here's what we get. We get Sandra and Frankie fucking holding the high heels in the bed, rocking in the bed. Okay. We get the famous motel threesome, wonderful stuff, pouring the champagne, amazing. Underrated perfect detail in the threesome, which we didn't talk about yet. Sam pocketing the panties. Oh, yeah. I'm confident. Tell you everything you need to know about that character right there. I'm just saving these for later. Incredible touch. Then we get the Kelly-Susie pool hookup with Ray filming and watching. that is a minute-ish longer in the unrated extended cut. You're getting to see some boobs again. They're kissing for a lot longer. They're taking off each other's tops in the pool. So that is there, and it should be in the whole movie. We need the Sam Ray scene at the end. No question. I think we need that sex scene. But I would also say we need one other thing, and it is somebody masturbating at some point. My specific nomination would be Sam knows that Detective Floria Perez is watching him through the window because he comes out and he's like, you're watching me, right? And then he brings her in and tries. Exactly. He should have started jerking off. He's already shirtless. Just start cranking it. You know she's watching. Crank daddy. A little CR crank daddy, Captain Crank. Why does that not happen? I don't understand. It was the unrealized potential of when the other police officer comes in and it seems like she's going to go with Matt Dylan. They're leaning into each other on the bed so we also just could have had them hooking up. but I think her seeing him jerk off very titillating draws her to him even more fully before the very flimsy like let me give you this file that will lead you to believe that Kelly definitely wanted to kill Susie so I thought you were going to go Sam goes to Mama Van Ryan to talk to her after everything's settled and they make up the old fashioned way I thought they also could have stuck in there I have a tweak with the Sandra Van Ryan plot coming in another category. What's age the worst? We mentioned no soundtrack album, even though we had some of the people that Mal mentioned, Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, Third Eye Blind. Not enough songs for the soundtrack, and this was the soundtrack era. I don't know how they fucked this up. Maybe they didn't think it was going to be that big of a movie, but I don't know where the Wallflowers were. Wallflower was great. Everclear was sitting right there. Goo Goo Dolls? Cracker was like, what are we doing? Why didn't you call us? We just had so many of them. We should do a special Ringer movies breakout about the death of the soundtrack. Like when the soundtrack stopped. It was like Overlords. They murdered it. It became the playlist. Make your own fucking playlist for any movie. It's so difficult. I remember when Bad Boys 2 dropped. The Bad Boys 2 soundtrack was as big a deal as the movie was itself and it's just not a thing no more in no way shape or form. Sean and Amanda were just talking about this on Big Pick on the Oscars mailbag episode I think and one of their suggestions for a new category was a needle drop category to kind of like reward something like what is PTA doing with the way he incorporates music into his movies you know the Scorsese impact on filmmakers through the era that would be a way to give people like a incentivize them to invest a little bit more. What's the worst? A teacher accused of sleeping with multiple students? I don't even think he has the chance to clean out his office. Every single aspect of the class. You're not allowed back at the school. Somebody else is putting your shit in the boxes. No, you're fucking done. Yeah, you're done. At this particular point now, you're guilty until proven innocent. They rolled this out there. They haven't arrested Mr. Lombardo yet. They haven't fired him. That's wild. They're like, we're going to talk to everybody. They're like, yeah, we couldn't find anything out of doing all kinds of crazy shit. Ultimately, every nitpick, like you guys said earlier, that was lampshaded by the fact that they're like, oh, yeah, well, Ray was in on it. You have an explanation eventually for all of the things that completely defy belief. And then here's the story in the unrated version. This is the biggest, what's aged the worst, I think. Yeah, McDonough. Basically, the production company, they went rogue. They filmed all this extra stuff for the movie that he cut out to make it the right version of the movie. and he said, I hated it. We've gone way past telling the story. We showed as much as we needed to do in the movie. It's exploitative. It's sleazy. I know that sounds strange talking about this movie, but it destroys the forward motion of storytelling. I don't know. He couldn't believe they did it. Interesting. I thought you were going to say something else. That's weird. I don't know what you guys are talking about. You're talking about the end credit scene? No, the director's cut with the extra footage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, what the fuck? I mean, I guess. the director should be able to green light that at least I yeah I mean we're pouring champagne on tits in a dirty motel room elsewhere in the movie it's like seeing boobs once more in a pool it's like at that point remember the reason why we talked about it before they're selling DVDs they're trying to make you go buy the DVDs so for him he's it's a little rich for him to kind of get involved in the movie wasn't like a gigantic box office hit so they're going to do whatever they had to do to make up for making up in the DVD films. Years later. They have a deleted where they zoom in on Bacon's cock. Is that true? No. That's just the super special director's cut we're working on right now. That's the sauna cut. I thought you were going to talk about one of the other things in the extended cut. This is a what's aged the worst, which is if you watch the extended cuts should be like, oh, there's an extra minute in a scene you saw or a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a scene that you understand why it was cut, timing, pacing, plot, whatever. There is a scene in the extended cut that radically changes the movie, which is learning that Susie is Sandra Van Ryan's half-sister and Kelly's aunt. So first of all, that's an incest element that's introduced, but it's also like the personal motivation of that might be fortune. I didn't even know if I believed that. I think I watched it today. It's on the DVD. It's real. So the fact that you can have a if you watch one version of it your understanding of who the character is and why they're doing what they're doing is actually different from the people who watch a different version of the movie. That's bad. That's not what extended cuts should do. What's Asian Wars for me is just the erotic thriller. Like after Unfaithful which was Great movie. Fucking fantastic. Okay. Might be, Unfaithful might have been like, was that 2001, 2003? Like 2002? We did it like five years ago. Unfaithful might be the, along with Fatal Attraction, the prestigious, like best version, perfection. Killer. And then what is she going to do? She can't do anything. She can't. She can't say anything. You got to live with it. She made that bed. She made that bed. Poor Olivier Martinez. After that, the Hollywood guy had some books. Yeah. I love that. Not to get into another movie, but hey, yeah, I'm fucking your wife. Have some water. Come in. Let's talk about it. You've been cupped. Like completely. And then he ends up getting hit with the snow. I can be deserved to die. Who, Olivia Martinez? Yeah. He's getting victory laughing a little bit. Come in. I'm fucking your wife. Can I eat some water? He was having a panic attack, right? Yeah. But anyway, so, but like after that, they kind of stay away from it a little bit. I mean, there have been some. I think internet porn ruined it. Ruined it too hard. Ruined it too hard. I just think. What else has internet porn ruined for you? It's too easy to get nudity and sex. It's very important for me. Nudity and sex is too easy to get. And the erotic thriller faded away at an appropriate time. But sex is such a delicious plot device. You know the other thing that I think might have happened? we kind of did every version of these where how many plots can you have it's like how they talk about music like there's only so many rock and roll chords you can play how many different ways can you have somebody's wife set somebody up but are you going to the erotic thriller for the plot you're going for the sensibility you're going for the essence listen I'm with you guys I wish there were more erotic thrillers I think we're just bad at them though there were too many of them That was 1981. Does Baby Girl count as an erotic thriller? No. What about Euphoria? Could be. I don't think I have an erotic thriller. Baby Girl has some elements. It's a TV show. Yeah, but you just get eight episodes. Right, Thriller is like what they kind of tried to do with The Housemaid. Right? Kind of tried to make it with The Housemaid, I guess. But I don't think people are smart enough now when they do these to understand the black comedy fun part. You're basically serving two masters at the same time. you have to figure out how do I do both? How do I make the erratic thriller? But it also has to be fun. A creative threesome, would you say? A throuple of a different story. I need to be able to make fun of what I'm watching in some scenes. You've got to push the envelope. I think it's hard. Craig, doesn't your generation also have an odd relationship to sex? To be honest, I think that's a generation below me. Oh, you think it's below you? I think that's people who are like 20 years old right now. The Gooners. The Gooners. The Gooners. The Gooners. Dick Harper's Magazine. Atlanta is one of those. Because when they were like eight years old, they had an iPhone and could look up anything they wanted. Yeah. I didn't really have that until like high school. And even then it was like slow goings. It was a big deal when somebody had like an iPod Touch that had the internet in high school and somebody could like look up whoever, a photo of an actress topless or something. That was still pretty innocent compared to what like a nine-year-old can do right now. When I say weird relationship with sex, I'm more so describing that, like, the sex scene itself, we litigated. He was asking less about your personal search history. A lot of times like, I'm on trial, Craig. Yeah, it's like stuff. When I'm talking to like, you know, because I'm around a lot of younger people at The Ringer, we will talk about whether or not sex scenes should be in movies. Like, I'll have these conversations with the Midnight Boys, and they'll be like, Why would there be a sex scene in a movie? I'd be like, what are you guys talking about? We watch a movie where a guy jumps into the sun. Why don't they think sex scenes should be in movies? I don't agree with that. There's a lot of people that think... That is a generational thing, for sure. There's a lot of people... That it's gratuitous or unnecessary? That it's gratuitous or unnecessary. Some people say they don't want to be in a movie theater. Watching people have sex on camera as a communal experience, they feel weird about that. They feel bashful or whatever. Great. I invite you to watch it at home under a fleece blanket, doing whatever you want with your hands. So I just think that kind of attitude a little bit kills because the erotic thriller, the sex is one of the driving forces of the plot. I have a hard time understanding it because I'm from the scrambled cable channel generation. It's like, I think I just saw a nipple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Random boobs in trading places. The ruffle-handed ribbon-neck partridge overacting where it clearly goes to Kevin Bacon flipping out in the PlayStation and going, yeah, you want to say that to my face? That's a good moment. Yeah, the security guard is like. What's happening? That's where I had Teresa Randall. I had Teresa Randall, yeah. Yeah. Well, she's just a badass. I had, like, my daughter's not here. Now it falls to the nearest wall. Now it falls to the nearest wall. Flex category for Mal? Hmm. So I was going to do the most gifable moment, which is the cut to Ray's face as he's hiding and filming. Kelly and Susie kissing the wide eyes and then the glance down. But we've already talked about that so much, I'll go with an alt. I'll do the Sarah Connor Award for when modern technology ruined this movie. You already mentioned the ballistics. There is, like, a mention of, you know, the blood evidence and the blood match and the DNA, and it'll take a couple weeks. It's accounted for, but obviously the CSI tech of the day radically changes what the plot could be. But I'm talking more like text messages. It would have been true. DMs. Cell phone tower ping. The nudes in the discovery process Internet search history The plot falls apart in two Seconds It doesn't work at all They would have had to speak strictly to Snapchat I don't know if they could have done it Oh weird, their cell phones all pinged at the motel In the same room at the same moment Like it's done Trying to erase their text I love my interrogation videos Where they're sitting down talking to someone And they go, I wasn't there And then the cops go, dude you had your cell phone with you so we got you legitimately five feet away from it I was never there and then they go here's how cell phone towers work we send the signal back and then just like the life drains from the suspect's face modern technology turns this movie into the end of episode one of adolescence basically oh excuse me we have in your recent Google history how to pull out my own tooth Yeah. It's destroyed all these cases except for the Karen Reed case which somehow took two years to try to figure out and it's not going to another trial. It always worked. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. Do you have one, Van? I do not. The movie was so right in front of your face. I had trouble coming up with a hot take. I know Mallory didn't. They should have killed Sandra Van Ryan. That's just the better scheme. Just kill her and get the money that way. It is stated multiple times that you unlock the trust after she dies. Just kill her. Why do we need this convoluted, there are all of these secret duos inside of the trio, inside of the quartet? Kill her, take the money, and turn on each other then. Why take $8 million? I bet she's worth like $50 million. Exactly. I bet it's like $60 million. Real estate heiress. Should have just killed her. Knock her off the balcony. My take might be too hot. Let's have it. I mean, mere weeks ago, Chris Ryan shat in this chair and said, you should have just used the cello strings for murder. So I think you're safe. By the way, it doesn't get hotter than Smells Like Teen Spirit isn't a good record. So just go for it. What the fuck you got going on? Wild. Hey, Nev Campbell, take your no nudity clause and find another movie. You actually asked. Okay. Find another movie. Catch what? You're invited to the barbecue. kids. We're serving ribs and meat. If you're a vegetarian, go find another party. I'm with it. Fuck it. Know what you signed up for. I told you it was hot. I'm not with it. Triple War got busy. We talk about busy instinct. Sharon Stone is in here. Are we going to play basketball? We just play pickup. Again, that was the hottest take. Sure was. I have a backup hottest take. We have to tweet that one out. No, I like that. I don't think you survived it. I don't know. I'll probably do. Thank you. The Van Lathan Award for did this movie need more black people? Hell no. Perfect amount. This is one of the perfect amounts. There's a couple black people in this movie. A couple black people in there. The cop, the guy at the school. staying out of all of these motherfuckers business. People like the principal in school. Damn Sam. Peace bro. We really fucked with you. Take your teacher of the year trophy. Get the fuck out of here man. Perfect amount. Casting what ifs. There's some good ones for this movie. The Titanic one I was shocked by. Downey? I didn't know the Downey one. Robert Downey Jr. was supposed to be Sam and could not get insured. And he was having drug issues, and they just couldn't pull it off. Is he great as Sam Lombardo? I don't think he can pull off seeming like a clean teacher at the beginning. I think he would know he's dirty immediately. I think his reputation would have preceded him in that regard. And I also think that while Downey, I think Sam Lombardo has to be a little bit more dashing than what Robert Downey is. He's handsome. He is handsome. and especially the young version of him at that point. I almost thought he would have made more sense in the bacon part. Oh, that's... Because he almost played that guy in U.S. Marshals. Yeah. Yeah. And then like revealed to be embroiled in the scheme. I really like Matt Dillon in this movie. I think Downey's so great that he, I kind of feel like he could do anything well. So I certainly think he could have done this well. He has the like easy charm that Sam Lombardo needs to suck you in. And then you realize what's really a foot? No. He would have been great. But he's also just, for the film, he's such an insanely incredible actor. It's too much firepower. You might have to worry about him laughing some people. That's true. And that's not on Kevin Bacon, because Kevin Bacon's a fucking great actor. Isn't that how you're in a movie like this? Downey? What was the indie that he did? Two Girls and a Guy? Remember that one? That was him, Heather Graham, and I I cannot remember who else was in that joint. We also have the Natasha Lyonne auditioning for Susie and not getting it. And then Tara Reid auditioning for Kelly Van Ryan and not getting it. Tara Reid would have been honestly a great Kelly, I think. Trying to think. But senior American Pie? One year before. American Pie is 99, right? I think. I don't know. I think Denise Richards is perfect. Well, I mean, yeah, of course. For this. Because Tara Reid was almost too young. part of the problem with this is if you have you almost needed the older actors playing high school students because it's basically soft core porn yeah you probably I think that Denise Richards had that little twinkle in her eye you know what I'm saying best that guy word I'm going to obey Craig's rule that we're going too stealth with the that guys oh interesting so we'll just do Robert Wagner even though he's Robert Wagner well for Craig's generation he's number two from Austin Powers. What about Jeff Perry? Jeff Perry, the guy. Yeah, the VA, right? Bryce Hunter. I tried, Craig. I tried to serve the under 30s. Nash Bridges scandal. Oh, that guy. Or the fucking wrong. Corey Pentergast, Jimmy. The guy who is Nev Campbell's like surrogate uncle or whatever that gets the. Walter? Walter at the end of it. Isn't that guy and everything? Robert Wagner, though. The mom of Nev Campbell in this movie is like a that I don't even know what her name is but she's again as the extended cut tells us not actually her mom not her grandma not related to her at all there's a second charlie sheen connection to this movie jennifer taylor who plays the the first girlfriend of matt dylan has a long run in two and a half men as charlie sheen's girlfriend interesting oh dm waiters the word just goes to bill murray we don't need no question after him we should keep track of is that the best dm waiters we're gonna have in 26 had some pretty good ones so we're casting Couch Director City I have a really good one for this but did you have one? are you going with director? no there's an actor who missed who would have been perfect for this movie but was not old enough yet to be in the movie for which role? Sam? for the Sam role? Neve Campbell's role not old enough to be in the movie this person five years later is perfect. Give me a hit. Kind of played this part in a different movie in the 0203 range. A version of it. Kind of played this part. Scarlett Johansson. In Neve Campbell's role? Yes. She is way too attractive, Bill. Did you ever see the perfect score with Darius Miles? I've seen the perfect score with Darius Miles. She basically plays this character in the perfect score She strips down She a little gothy and I think she could have done it And I think she would have even maybe improvised some stuff The problem is then it going to become a tit-off. Why is that a problem? It's not a problem, but it's like now you're putting two of the titanics against each other. It's like, no nudity class? Fuck that. You'll just whip that over her shoulder. Interesting. But I thought I think that would have been that kind of energy maybe if you're trying to really jazz this movie up with the Susie character. You're moving that range. Craig, you have a flex category. Devil Wears Prada Award. Is this movie actually perfect for what it tried to do? I would argue 100% yes. You know the meme, sometimes I forget, this is the whole point. It's kind of going around. When you watch this movie you're like, you know what? Sometimes I forget that this is all it's supposed to be. Great one. great one that's great try to run the ball twice use a little play action and keep moving the chain don't overthink it try to get into third and fourth third and three half-bats are any research there's apparently a dead body that halted filming that sounded really fun they had to halt production for a second to get the dead body out of the swamp incredible so Kevin Bacon he also we talked about his no nudity clause. How common are these no nudity clauses? Are they just standard when you're an actor? Why would you need one though? If you're Kevin Bacon's interesting question, if you're Kevin Bacon's I'm not getting naked. Does it protect the actor from being fired? I didn't realize that he was getting flashed. Yeah, something developing on set. Right. You're feeling like you need to make a decision in real time. I feel like I read a 5,000 word feature on the history of no nudity clauses why they had to come up with this. Yeah. Well, I think for some people it's like boilerplate part of their like contract language, their base agreement. And then maybe for some people it's like script specific. Oh, I'm doing an erotic thriller. I'm putting a note. So, you know, Sharon Stone and the specialist. I remember the sex scene had to be like storyboarded out for what she would do and wouldn't do after Basic Instinct. So I get it. But just interesting that he would have one. I don't really understand it. McNaughton's editor with the dick shot, who is a female, said, it's not fair. You guys have seen after seen of Topless Babes. This one's for us. Then they had to go ask Bacon and who claimed he was fine with that. I have some thoughts. I'm saving it for another category. The best part of that is that he was like, how did I look? Apparently. The film was retitled in France, Italy, and Belgium. Sex crimes. Sex crimes. Not great. Because the original title didn't work. Film's final scene, Mallory mentioned this earlier, when Bill Murray shows up, it's because Peter Guber, legendary producer, the test screening, everybody loved Neve Campbell and Bill Murray. Ken Belvin. He was like, we should work them into the ending because they felt like the ending was missing one thing. So they worked it into the ending. That was that. It was missing one thing because they didn't let Ray and Sam fuck like they should have. Yes. Because if that makes the movie, I feel like if they do that, the movie is like an actual kind of thing. By the way, all you have to do is get in the shower and we're good. It's not like we need like getting in the shower. You don't want to see it. No, I'm just saying we didn't need the three minutes of the shower. You're just getting the shower, and we're like, okay. Now I know what's going on. Get in the shower, and then show them just like dropping the towel, and then you cut away. That's what I would have said to Matt Dillon. A hand going into the steamy glass. If Matt Dillon's like, I'm not doing this, he'll be like, how about plan B? You get in the shower. My cheek would be great. Yeah. Where are you guys on shower sex? I can actually... Or pool sex. Water sex of any sort. Yeah. I enjoy, I think for the first, because I'm going to ask you guys a sex question later, too. I enjoy Let's bring it HR. Bill, relax. You asked both of us to be on the same podcast, so this is your fault. I think I enjoy for about the first nine minutes, and then you move out of the area of immersion. For the first nine minutes, just an incredible flex from him right there. Notice how he didn't say 10. I thought like 10 was too aggressive. For the first nine minutes, I enjoy. Then you have to switch locations. But it's only the first nine minutes. There are four minutes. Sting over here, baby. you guys have heard the lore we haven't even had Apex Mountain yet Apex Mountain, Denise Richards 100% yes Neve Campbell probably yes too Party of Five still on, coming off Scream Scream or Scream Scream, she's still doing that role today that's true so you would say 96 Scream because I would argue this actually combined with Scream but it didn't really lead to an awesome thing so maybe not threesome scenes in a movie. I don't know if this was the best ever, but it was certainly the most ballyhoo. It was the Dr. J and the dunk contest. It's like, whoa, he dunked from the foul end. What the hell just happened? I didn't know you could do that. Did I just see that correctly? Kevin Bacon, no. Matt Dillon, yes, because there's something about Mary. I think this is... He's got it all going. Blue Bay, Florida? I'm going to say yes because this isn't a real place. Great name for a town. Bill Murray, no way. No. High school sailing teams? Maybe. Maybe. The movie. Can't remember that in another movie. Interesting. Champagne being used where it seems like a gun, but then it turns out to be champagne to kick off a threesome? Sure. Just a wonderful creative choice. Cruiser Hanks. Cruise and Hanks. Yeah. That was my answer, too. Cruz is Sam and Vince is Ray Cruz is Sam Lombardo who is Matt Dillon Matt Dillon is Tom Cruise Tom Hanks has no place in this movie except opposite Tom Hanks opposite Tom Cruise hold up the photo again trying to picture Cruz here yeah Cruz could be a great Sam Lombardo I think this is a year before Eyes Wide Shut I'm trying to think where he'd run, though, in this movie. Probably have to add that. Maybe he's jogging? To or from a dock to get on a boat? Maybe he's getting a car scene when the car pushes Matt Dillon's car off. Maybe he's jogging and the car pushes him off the road as a jogger. That's crazy. He starts sprinting. I love that. Sam didn't factor that into the equation. That's one of the places. I had this as a picking nit. It's a really unreasonable part of their plot. Like, wait, someone could kill me, actually, because of this. Also, that's where an alligator could have eaten someone, could have eaten Frankie. Miss opportunity Scorsese or Spielberg this is Scorsese Best hang, worst hang, Bill Murray Best hang, worst hang, alligator guy The guy putting Teeth that he found in his mouth Yes Oh Walterie yeah Picking nets I got a few I got one big one Do y'all stop fucking to answer the phone With Stanger Van Ryan I see this in every movie to where the phone is ringing and then somebody goes stop and scrub with your hands I gotta get that, what the fuck are you talking about? So in your first nine minutes you're not answering the phone I'm not answering the phone period Nine minute bands, no way In the second, I'm not answering the phone period Do y'all stop having sex audience, think about this You answer the phone, do you stop having sex? So if it's three in the morning you might think something terrible happened but it wasn't three in the morning If you have children in high school, it could be. She's mother of the year. Well, I'm super worried about her kid and engage with her kid's life. The only thing that I could think. Yeah, it's stupid. This is an era where the, this person called you doesn't exist. The missed call. I mean, they're answering machines, but like, Oh, you wouldn't even know what the call was. You wouldn't even know what the call was. But it's also the beeper era. It's also the beeper era. You need to let the call go because if it was important, someone would beep you. Okay. Offshoot question, real quick. Yeah. Who would have to be calling you? For you to answer? For you to answer. But how would you go? Bill is Daniel X. Oh, you could hear it on your answering machine. This is the answering machine, Aaron. Hold on. Hold on. It's X. You let it go to the answering machine and it's like, Bill, it's Daniel. So you hear it in the room. Then you have to stop and pick up. Right? We're announcing earnings tomorrow. Right now, you wouldn't know. Unless you stop to look at your phone. It's going right to voicemail. You're not going to hear it. I do have one personal story where this did happen. Gotta hear it. What? I'm debating whether to share it. This is a true story. This is true. This is true. A certain young man who will remain nameless, I'll protect his identity. We were losing our virginity to each other. Holy hell. And the phone rang. And we were at his house. And we knew that his parents were coming home. So the phone rang. And it was like, better answer it. In case they're like, I'm downstairs with the groceries. But it was a real mood killer. Real mood killer. You got to pick that call up. You had to pick the call up. You had to. It was like, parents are out. We got to, you know. So when we do the movie First nine minutes First nine minutes Make it count Then it's over The Freddie Mercury Queen movie Like the biopic When it's about Mal That's like in the first ten minutes First ten minutes The losing the virginity gone wrong scene That's the first scene of the movie Yeah Maybe he'll listen to the spot And he'll reach out Maybe his dad will listen to the spot And reach out He reaches out from Unfinishedbusiness at gmail.com Nitpicks Does Kelly like her mom Not like her mom No Not like her mom What's going on here? What are you talking about? She's confiding in her. No, she's using her. She's not confiding in her. She's lying in her. She's using her to an aspect of the girl. Game. The middle part of the film is her impact in her earlier mouth point. Just kill her. Exactly. Just kill her and take the money. Clearly, she blames her for the father's death. That seems apparent, right? I think that there's a version. We'll talk about it later. But, yeah, she hates the mom for sure. Yeah. All right. And she's jealous. And she's jealous. Because of the relationship between Sandra and Sandra. The easy murder. Yeah. Yeah. There's just not enough time for the fake Susie death scene when we see the closing credits after. Yeah. Where Denise Richards goes to get something from the car. In that time. Yeah. They have to pull out two of her teeth. Right. And he has to like not be able to do it effectively. They kill her. Yeah. The fake bludgeoning. Which leads to my biggest nitpick. she lost two teeth then at the end of the movie full set of teeth well they've got eight and a half million dollars so you can probably afford some dental work they don't have the money yet well and where is she getting dental work she's supposed to be dead hold on can I have your insurance no you can't where were they weren't they in an island though they're in the Caribbean they're in the Caribbean already this is huge could she have been missing two teeth I know what this is what you don't think that Caribbean nations have the expertise in dentistry to be able to fix her like that. This is internalized. But how many weeks? I'm back already. I'm back already. I'm doing my job for the community. And Guilla Barbados, all of these places, they got dentists too, Bill. It's two weeks. It's just a privilege. It's two weeks. She's in hiding. Do you think she's like, you know, I know I'm in hiding, but these two missing teeth are driving me crazy. I got to risk it all. She did it right after or right before getting the wig. You're not fixing your teeth until like a year later. I'm sorry. So you're waiting around with like one tooth missing out your shit. It's her life of luxury. It is yacht life. She doesn't get the money yet. She doesn't get the money and put the iron. Wait, hold on. On the money front, this is one of my pickiness, so it's related to your point. We got to dive into the money thing. The detectives look at the SunTrust bank account and we see, and this is alluded to in the dialogue elsewhere, $327,000 to Playa properties, $160,000 to the yacht brokers to get the ship. So Sam is maybe okay, like if that's all traceable, they would be able to find them is the point. Now Sam elsewhere, he's like when he's still at the motel I'm living life like a rich guy, I'm doing what rich guys are supposed to do. Maybe he doesn't care if he's found, but Ray goes and meets him there. Susie is there and hiding with him when she's supposed to be dead. And is now on the boat that could be traced to him. She got on the boat. She got on the boat, yeah. That's a big issue. And where is she staying this whole time? He did have the money and he was spending it. Ray had no money. He had no money. Ray tells people, though. Ray tells. He has all the money. He said, I'm doing what rich guys do. I'm going around for money. I think the money that she gets in the end of the movie is the way they were able to take the money that was for Ray. And transfer it to her. And transfer it to her. I think he's already dead. So how did she get down there? where did she stay he gave her the money so I want you to remember she's running him so it's very likely that the offshore account that that she is their shared slug until she thinks it all and where do you think they went like Barbados or somewhere somewhere in the Caribbean not easy to get to get where you need to get there well guess what they're all expert sailors expert sailors they actually probably, they could have sailed there. They're in Florida. I don't think she's getting her teeth fixed until a year passed. I think she comes out, she looks like playoff hockey. Now, I tell you what, though, she looks like, I don't even know, like Mark Messier. If they had done that, that would have been a scary scene. The better version of the movie shows her, and when she smiles, she's got two teeth missing, and it's very frightening. The other one is, Ray wasn't supposed to kill Kelly. That's what Matt Dillon said. Yeah, just supposed to frame her. They did, and then Sam said he screwed up the plan. Well, what was the plan? They weren't going to kill Kelly Van Ryan. They all have different plans. But if they weren't supposed to kill Kelly Van Ryan, were they pinning the murders on her? Because he would have whistled them. That's my biggest one as well. Yeah, because I think you have to assume, even though Sam tells Ray you were just supposed to frame her, Susie would have killed her. Because the thing we learn is no loose ends, right? No loose ends. So they're not allowing Kelly to just go to jail for Susie's murder and rat them out at any point. No way. Kelly's testimony when she is brought in alive by Ray is going to be so damning. I've been having sex with him for this amount of time. Yeah. I've been wrapped in the 10th grade. Like, yeah, to leave her alive makes absolutely zero sense. There's no way it all falls apart. So he's probably lying. Yeah. Any other nitpicks? Shouldn't he get picked, Kelly? Well, I think that gets back to the, like, this is actually, if you're trying to do, like, Lit 101 kind of a story about class. So it, like, makes sense that the two people who always felt like they were, like, your trash from other members of Blue Bay would actually be aligned with each other, and then she turns on Sam. That's fair. But the whole thing was that Sam wanted money, and he was always trying to associate with it. Yeah, but he could have gotten even more. But that is another unanswerable question. It's, again, just in the, or, like, part of the why not kill Sandra? It was just kill her, take her money, and then marry Kelly. He could have married Kelly. But the thing is that none of this is Sam's idea. Right. Sam is being activated by Susie. So Sam is a patsy in the whole deal. So Sam actually has no motivation. His number one motivation in all of this from the post-credit scene is self-preservation. Yes. Because she has pictures of him. Fucking Kelly and doing coke with Kelly. And that would have ended his career and his reputation around Blue Bay. Not that it was Sterling. She even convinces them she has a no nudity clause for the movie. In complete control. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TVL, Black Caster, Untouchable. So in 2006, apparently, they came up with a movie called Backstabbers. That would have continued Susie's story. And Nev Campbell said it was a pretty cool script. She was growing up, had a kid with somebody, Bill Murray's character, blah, blah, blah. Wild Things a Generation Later. couldn't do it. Never happened. And then McNaughton was like, well, it could have been a streaming series. I actually think that would have been an interesting streaming series. I think this would be a really good Prestige TV, like six to eight episode season. I would be fired up. I would watch it. If like Hulu was like. Yeah, this is a good Hulu show. It's a good Apple show. Don't take this out of the pod, but let me say that part again. I'd be fired up if Netflix. No, it's in there for a streamer. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Florist, or the 19 other people who was mentioned for this category? We could also skip it. Wayne Jenkins as a dirty cop would be perfect here. Oh, Davey? You want to talk about Davey? Fantastic. Wayne Jenkins as Kevin Bacon? He could either be the Ray Duquette character or he could be another dirty cop who's looking into Ray. We could add yet another wrinkle. Because at the end, Gloria starts looking into Ray, right? She goes to see Walter and Ruby, and she's like, what's up with this guy? Have we talked about how the other cop with Bacon and the woman has just like a hardcore Chicago accent? He sounds like he's in the bear. Who's the most famous sailor? Ever? In the history of the world? Ted Turner? Who's most known for sailing? Who's most known for sailing? Ted Turner? Let's say Ted Turner. That would have been Wayne Jenkins in this. Oh man We got our own Ted Turner over here Look at him Big sailor Sorry CR Just one Oscar who gets it The score It's like an erotic thriller Crossed with like kind of fun What about Bill Murray Best supporting Real quick I have two unanswerable questions But I'll let you go There are like 100 but we've hit so many already. Okay, so I have a couple. What sport did Sam Lombardo play at Miami? I think it's baseball. Yeah, baseball. You think it's baseball? Yeah. There's no way it's football. There's no way it's basketball. He's carrying himself like a baseball player. Probably left the other, pitched a little bit. I think he was like a relief pitcher. You don't think that he could have been, I don't know, like a free safety? No. You don't think so? Miami. I would have gone kicker and that's it for Miami. or QB. He would have been known. Other one. Did Teresa Van Ryan, is that her name? Sandra Van Ryan. Did she actually kill the father? I think that's the same. Yeah, I think so. Or something. It's like, oh, he killed himself. His death is a big unanswerable question. So something. Or was it her or was it one of her lovers? Was it Sam Lombardo? Yeah. Was it one of her lovers? Or could she convince the lover to kill him? Yeah. Something like that for sure. What'd you have now? Who took the photos of Sam and Kelly fucking in Sort and Coke that Susie chose to Sam? Always a great question for these movies. Who took those pictures? Was it Susie herself? Was it Bill Murray? Was it Ken Bowden in from the jump? Oh, that's probably who it was. Probably Bill Murray. Did she have another secret accomplice? like does someone out there still know it on the Bill Murray front on the Ken Bowden front we get kind of the Bruce and Alfred at the end of Dark Knight Rises at the end I love that one I like that movie great great film episode of hers that he takes a sip of when she walks away also poisoned no loose ends did suzy also kill ken i feel like they have i think they have a bond of people that got shit on in blue bay i think the reason why they're connected is because they're blue bay trash i i think that the like less my usual feline points to a depth of history there and shared experience but the boy i hope i never make you mad i have a good one that craig's really gonna like so these movies when somebody escapes right trading places, Shawshank, this movie whatever it is, they always end up in some resort on a beach and it's always like I'm going to get my money, I'm going to end up in some weird place, nobody will know who I am I'm on a beach, I'm going to have like a cocktail right, White Lotus there's never a ski mountain they never mix up the locations, nobody's like I'm going to go to Whistler, nobody's going to find me it's always, like if somebody escapes All you have to do is go to like Barbados St. Barts Cabo, Hawaii Just go fucking look for them in like 10 luxury hotels You'll be here to find them quickly If they go to Hawaii then they're a fucking moron Because that's in the United States of America Good point Cross Hawaii up But this is literally the Greg Gary from White Lotus It's just I'm in a nice like tropical locale Nobody ever just goes I'm going to go cold Everyone will think I'm going warm I'm going the other way I'm going to go outside Vancouver and I'm going to get an awesome ski cabin someplace in Switzerland. And I'm going to be dressed in warm clothes the whole time. I'm half on nobody. I'll grow a beard. A mug of hot cocoa? Yeah. Hanging out. I love that. This is the most important thing I've done in a podcast with the two of you. I need to really put my foot down on fluffing your own cock before a nude scene when you're a man. And this is why I think Kevin Bacon the No Nudity Club doesn't believe it. Interesting. that thing's coming out it's like at a 45 degree angle but he's moving yeah it seems like it's moving with the movement of him turning for the house there's some life in it he he pumped it up he knew it was going to be on camera it wasn't like hanging like a dick it was this is the salt burn guy same thing fucking salt burn guy was in the in the trailer like half fluffing himself for 10 minutes to get ready to run around the salt burn mansion yeah wouldn't you i'm not against it I'm just saying this is the case for it. I actually think it is the answer but I think Kevin Bacon knew his dick was going to be in the movie because he fluffed himself. Okay. Counterpoint. Yeah. Even if he doesn't know that it's going to be in the movie there are a bunch of people on set who are going to see his dick. So you still want to, yeah. You still, a lot of people, they're going to see the cop. If you're not going to see the movie and if his dick's not going to be in it That's a white word. Like, is is I can't Dick, even if everybody sees it, so you want it to look... Okay. Okay. The director, the assistant director, the cinematographer, the other performance coordinator, the gaffers, the writers. Kevin Bacon has a no nudity clause. Why can't he just be in like a little bikini? That's a better question. I'm not going to see his dick. Why do I have to see his dick? Or you can just shoot him. You don't need the full body shot. I have no nudity clause. Put my fucking Speedo on. You guys might have been familiar with this term. I just learned it from the really excellent, still ongoing, heated rivalry press tour that Hudson Williams and Connor Story are doing, and Hudson Williams was asked about filming these scenes and said, you have a cock stock. Molliesy pouch, yeah. Sure, but that's a very polite way of saying it. A cock stock gets right to the point. Could have worn a cock stock. Could have done that. All kinds of things. He obviously wanted, he knew what was happening. Yeah, he knew. So, I don't think I've ever had bacon on the podcast. But if he came in and he's sitting right there in Mal's chair, it's like, we're talking about, he thinks we're talking about Newport. I got to start here, Kevin Bacon. This whole thing in Wild Things, where you claim you weren't going to see. You wanted us to see it, Kevin. You're talking in a minute right now. I have another piece of evidence to add to this. He went back to the well. Hollow Man. That's right. Showed it again. Showed it again in Hollow Man. Proud of his car. Hollow Man. It came out of nowhere. He was owning Kevin Bacon. He was kind of like in the, like, the heat vision. Yeah, then Fred. I have another question off this. Neve Campbell, no nudity clause because Party of Five didn't want her to be in a thing like this. Why not? The show had shitty ratings. This would have been the greatest thing that ever could have happened to Party of Five that she was in a movie like this. All it did was make more people want to watch Party of Five. You know what? I think about that too. Remember when we go back to Angel Heart, remember they kicked Lisa Bonet off? That was different. You know That was America's family Yeah they were like get the fuck out of here Huskabos were the most important family in America You couldn't have her riding Mickey Rourke Covered in blood Covered in chicken blood I actually wasn't familiar To me it felt like Party of Five was some kind of cultural phenomenon Everybody was talking about Party of Five Let everyone do what they want Watch Party of Five if you want to Keep your shirt on if you want to Release the cut Like release the truth Kevin Bacon I mean Was Party of Five how do we talk to an angel How do I talk to an angel song What show was that What was the Party of Five No there was a guy that had a song And the song was like He played a part in the show And then the song from the show That was Jamie Walters How do you talk to an angel Yeah What was the Party of Five song Now that's going to drive me crazy I haven't watched that. Oh, whatever. We've got to wrap this up. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? Two candidates. Champagne bottle? Champagne bottle. Three candidates. I would want Sam's Educator of the Year trophy. I just think that's so funny. Sam Lombardo. I saw that. It's got the big bowl with the Sam Lombardo on it. Yeah, I know that it matters, but Educator of the Year is just hysterical. Why was his last name Lombardo? He's not Italian. Where'd that come from? you thought he was an italian i don't know lombardo's an italian name he could that not be cuban maybe maybe it's cuban what would you have now uh susie's two teeth the two teeth and the little right behind you on the yeah but this one do you have one uh susie's wig oh yeah and the obvious one is terrible coach finstock mr mayagia word best or worst life lesson, people aren't always what they appear to be. Don't forget that. Also, to large accounts and no loose ends. Best of future choice? I think Cruel Intentions. They're just so of the moment to me. I went Sliver. I actually went back and watched Sliver after I watched it. Terrible, terrible movie. Ridiculously bad. Can I tell you something? Aged terribly as well. Most of these movies are not as bad when you watch them now. Sliver is nearly unwatchable. I'll see how it happens. was caught in the theater with Joe House. Incredible. She had visited me in Boston for a few days and we were like, what a beautiful friendship. What a beautiful friendship you two have had over the years. The things we've shared. My double feature choice is Masquerade with Rob Lowe. Oh! I've never seen that. Which is the most underrated erotic thriller of the 80s and 90s. Borderline rewatchables, but it's too obscure. Interesting. Rob Lowe, Kim Cattrall, Meg Tilly, I don't fuck. What year was this? Oh, man. Watch it this weekend. How did I miss this? It's sailing and it's like Nantucket, Newport maybe. You know this movie? Oh, Newport's really having a moment right now thanks to the Gizadine. This is a thumbs up erotic thriller. And wedding people. What year is this? I'm going to say late 80s. 88. How the fuck did... I never even heard of it. I don't know how I missed this. Honestly, Tubi classic. Sounds like a future rewatchable. Yeah. Who won the movie? it's either down to Denise Richards or Kevin Bacon's dick. Oh. I got Denise Richards. I have Denise Richards as well. Iconic. Iconic. Dana Delaney as well. Dana Delaney. I like her. Fans watching this tonight. Craig, what do you got? Just about everything you want in a movie. Has it all. Checks every box. Every twist kind of, to be honest, genuinely caught me by surprise. I was like oh that's the last twist and then there was another one and I was like that's the last twist and then there was another one just like raw entertainment at its core great Jeep I don't think we talked about the Jeep also an unbelievable era for Jeeps I love a vacation Jeep anytime you rent a car I love a Jeep not very non-practical car like here but when you're in the islands it's perfectly practical I love famous talented people doing B movies I just think that's the best. You have the most fun. Everyone's not taking it seriously, but they're so talented. I love it. It's the kind of movie like, Affleck tried to do this with that movie with Ananda Armas. Oh, yeah. But it's not a fun movie. It's just kind of this dark, weird sex comedy. It's not sex comedy. Sex drama. Yeah. You know what movie I'm talking about? This movie is deep water. Not trying to take itself too seriously. Deep water. Like, every time they do this, they go too dark, and they try to make it like an exploration or blah, blah, blah, and they forget the fun part. The guy who did Fatal Attraction, Adrian Lyne. Yeah. So, like, when you do a film like this, you kind of have to be really okay with the identity of the movie. It can only be so smart. Right. Because sex is dumb. It's a primal instinct that we have, that there are all types of societal complications around. Up to nine minutes. Just the first nine minutes. First nine minutes. First time. First time in a dance. All time in a dance. Y'all telling on y'all, though. you went out of your way to say first nine minutes and not 10 so it's like it if you it's very complicated societally it is and there's a lot around safety and around appropriate but like when you're doing this movie and these characters are like motivated by this thing that you can't really stop the movie can only be so smart it can only be so deep. It has to be surface level to a degree and we're kind of afraid to talk about sex in that way. Also, some of the beauty of these movies is that I don't know if you want to call it camp, but oftentimes camp is authentic. They don't know they're making a campy movie when they're making it and then it ages into that genre. Yeah, definitely. So it's tough now because I think everyone is so aware. The internet, you get an immediate review. It just feels like it's harder to make something like this genuinely as opposed trying to make it campy. Well, that was like the Starship Trooper story. I don't know if this is apocryphal or not. Casper Van Diem was the only person who didn't know it was a campy movie. And they made him take it completely seriously and he had no idea what was actually happening. I don't know if that was true, but I always thought like kind of, people have to buy in. It's like an airplane and naked gun in those movies when they hire real actors to be in some of the parts. Sure. Anyway, being Lathan. First Nine Minutes Van Thank you Great nickname Valerie Incredible performance by you Great job Craig A pleasure as always Watch out you get some mail I was with him Let me tell you some bullshit In the hot tub You think you're going to get fact checked First Nine Minutes Van Email us please thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well don't forget if you like the rewatchables on Netflix you can just click us on my list every time we do an episode it'll come up but also watch us on Spotify as well thanks guys good to see you