Ep 1325 | The Robertson Kids Were Protected from These Gut-Wrenching Stories About the Family’s Past

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashamed. We have once again improved our set by bringing in the ladies, Zach, which is always nice. It's Upgrade. We got a little Upgrade. Yeah. And we have Zach, which we never knew he was going to be here and he's at an undisclosed location. I know. You're kind of like a little hot out there, Zach. Yeah. I'm in an Airbnb and undisclosed location. I said, I don't want to say where because I did not get a release to film in here. So we won't say where. Are you breaking the law? Every executive producer is at. So we've got, if you're listening, we have my lovely wife, Lisa on the set. Welcome, babe. Thanks. And then we have my lovely daughter, my youngest daughter, Alex is here as well. Hello, everybody. So look, Alex is works for TreadLively, which is Zach's enterprise that keeps this podcast and the others. Zach is my benign overlord. Yes. Benign or benevolent. I don't even know what that means. We call it. Sometimes neither. So yeah, Alex works for Zach. Alex, let me just say, Zach can be difficult to work with at times. Oh, I'm familiar. Oh, okay. You know, cakewalk yourself sometimes, Jase. Let's be honest. So Alex listens to Jase. I don't know if you knew this, but she listens to every Unashamed podcast so she can write copy for it. That's what she does for TreadLively, you know, stuff for social media and all that and ads, but she listens to it on, is it time and a half? Two times. Two times the speed. So when I come by, you know, or she's at the house or I go over to her house and I listen to it, it sounds like we're the, what's the little chipmunks? Chipmunks. Well, I was going to say there's, there's that Pink Floyd zone that I reference a lot. There's someone in my head and it's not me, but you have chipmunks in your head. Well, actually. But she thinks now when we speak now, it's not normal, right? Now when I talk to you in real life, you sound like Mountain Man. Well, I don't play with that. Oh, I tell you what. Oh, Jase. Oh, Mountain Down. I already went to Johnson City, Johnson City, Tennessee, so he must be a wagon. He moved? Yeah, he's been gone for a minute. Yeah, that's up there. That's up where I live. That's where he's from. He's from there. I will say I've done a couple of events with Mountain Man. I've done one with him. And the people and I tell you a lot of fun. We did listen to this setup days a few years ago. You were there, babe. We went to Minnesota and the setup, the church did was they had Mountain Man MC the event. Oh, wow. And Si and I were doing the event. Like we were the speakers. Did they have to double the time allotment that they gave you? I will say you're right. It was a packed house in Minnesota and they loved it. Because you can imagine that far away and such a different. I mean, but he, but Mountain Man, you know, he, when the spotlight came on, he knows how to shout. He knows how to entertain. He was a radio DJ here. Yeah, he had his own radio show. He had actually the first versions that you may not know this. It was a radio show, but it was really the first real version of a podcast of everybody on Duck Dynasty. He had the first, he even predated Willie. He was down there at the country station and going out across the internet. So he had been doing it for you. Did you ever guess on his little show? He asked me and I said, I think I have something going on. We did it. We did it. We did it. He's still doing it. I don't think he is anymore. One of his buddies kind of, he called him his manager was a local DJ here on the country station. And so they had been friends for you, but Mountain Man had been in with this guy on radio even before. Yeah, he'd been on the radio. That is real boy. That's his real boy. That's his real. I've never heard anything different. Have you? No, but I mean, he plays a little bit, but that was when we first met him and how this all got started. He was had a little side gig because he's a jack of all trades dealing with electrical and air conditioning stuff like that. So how he is, his, how he, what, what is the slogan when you kind of get your break for Hollywood? How the break happened was Willie was arguing with the producers of a little show called Duck Dynasty. And he was like, you're trick because they were, they had a tendency to try to create us into something that we were not. And we're like, we just want to be ourselves. They wanted to recreate us in their image. And Mountain Man was at his house and Willie was like, you want to, you want to show, you need to get your cameras on that guy right there. This guy is hilarious. Next thing you know, they're out there talking to him and they're, they're like, oh, we have to get him on TV. Is he like that? He asked all the questions we're discussing now. Is he really like this? And it's like, that's him. But behind the scenes and we've told the story on the podcast probably more than once, but he really is a quality person. He did come to Christ. He just sitting around with y'all. That's what happened. He, he asked me for a Bible study and I said, Mountain Man, we'll be here. And it was one room down from where I'm sitting right now. It was just what the set that you saw on the duck show. We're all sitting our places. I said, I'll be here for eight hours a day building these duck calls. And so he kind of became kind of like the Seinfeld deal where he just showed up. He was our Kramer. And he said, where'd you meet him at? He came here to work on the AC at Duckamander. Here's how he first met the guy. Well, he was and he said, I've been wondering, you know, about the Bible and the Lord. And I was like, I'll be here. He was here working on something. He was working on this back. And look, that invitation turned into about three years of him sitting there. Now it was during Duck Dynasty about a year into it. Cause they're like, does he work here? I mean, I think they did a little bit about it. He just shows up and he sat down and asked every conceivable Bible question. And after a year, one day at that point, I'd given him my phone number, which turned, you know, was a mistake, but it worked out. Cause he called me all the time, but I left. Cause it was like eight to five job here. I left and he called me and he just, he just like burst into tears. And he's like, I need you to baptize me. Well, I just seen him five minutes before I was like, well, why didn't you bring this up? And he's like, well, it just got on me and it was resonating and percolating. And so I was like, well, we'll set it up. And he's like, I need to do that right now, brother. And so he, he followed me and came to my house. And I baptized him in my swimming pool. And I mean, he's a big old beast of a man and he was just tears of joy. So it was, it was a fantastic story. Yeah. And I think is I'd mentioned before, at least I were doing a book signing up in New Jersey and I found his book. I didn't know he had a book and I think it's called Living a Slow Profile. Is that what it is? Something like that. And I don't know if it's still out there in print, but it's worth a read. It's like a small book, but it's a, it's a little bit of highlights of his life. But I laughed so hard, I bought it and read it coming home on the play. I'll tell you something fascinating about him though, because then he kept coming to work and he just sit there. And then, you know, Jay was getting involved that time and he kept getting on Mount Man that he wouldn't do anything. I was like, he doesn't work here. That could be a whole segment of a show in this building. Do you work here? Yeah, that's right. The people who are here, but not necessarily. Not necessarily here. But I'll tell you what he started doing post, you know, him coming to Christ, then he would bring a person to like, and it reminded me of, you know, our childhood with my dad and all. And you, you would see that pattern. People would come down. My dad was study with them. They would come to Christ. Then they would start bringing people. And I think that's kind of the way this thing works. We spent a lot of time with him just kind of advising him on ways to go because this whole thing kind of shook out in different ways for us to continue on what we like to do beyond the show. Do you remember whenever you introduced him at church? Yeah, and didn't know his name. And Al didn't know his name. Tim. Yeah, but I didn't know that. He only knew Mountain Man. So when I said, Mountain Man hit me in the moment, I was introducing him at our church that he had just been baptized and, and like welcome. And then I thought, I don't even know the man's name. Yeah. I think that's why a lot of people didn't make the connection with his radio show because it was under his real name. Tim Gerardi. Yeah. Oh, I've had that happen some meantime. And they were like, yeah, you know, and they'll say his name. Tim Gerardi. I was like, never heard of him. And I, oh, I think y'all, y'all call him Mountain Man. It was like the Martin was, Martin was a very similar story. Martin showed up. He didn't really work here, but he just kind of hung around. It's like a sign photo. It was like Kramer, you know, he did. Same thing. Yeah. It's like, same thing. He came to a card game. Willie's like, he's like, will you get, I mean, he asked Willie for a job. And Willie's like, well, come, just come to the, the shop and we'll talk about it. I used to waste so much time trying to figure out where my money was, what I was actually doing, where my budget was with five. Kids in a busy household. 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So like 10 minutes later, he says Justin Martin. I said, oh, you mean Martin? Yeah, you were, you were five years ahead of me. I was five years into that relationship when I realized that that wasn't. His name is not Martin. Yeah, I thought, oh, even now when Brittany, when I was running to Brittany, and when she calls him Justin, it takes me a second, you know, to like make the link who she's talking about. Yeah, that was a funny moment because I remember asking him, why didn't you ever tell us? And he's like, it just, it got so far into it that I was like, I got into it that I was embarrassed. And I just couldn't tell you that, you know, my name is actually not Martin. That's the point of no return. Yeah. And some people by nature get called by their last name. And that way that's the way dad was. Dad, if he remembered you, he remembered you by last name, Stevenson. But, but if he didn't remember you at all, or some awful nickname, it was a terrible name. Yeah. Or where you're from or where you look like. Yeah. Or the infamous no name. Which was the first producer of our podcast. Yeah. No, no. At least Maddie, you were blindy or whatever you were. So before we get into why I had the ladies on today, I did want to mention we had brought up a Seinfeld episode before we came on today, which dating back to another conversation I won't get back into about an ad we had. But, and we already mentioned it today, but I actually live Zac a Seinfeld episode recently because there's one on there, Jason, if you remember this one, the, I don't know what the setup was, but he had to go to another hair guy that cuts his hair. And so, but it was almost like that he was having an affair because he didn't want the guy who really cut his hair to know, because he was very possessive. Yeah. And so he would have him over to his apartment and the guy shows up and he sees hair on the floor and, you know, he has all these things. And the whole setup was it's like he was cheating on his hairdresser. And I had a similar episode because the girl lady, she's older than me, but has been cutting my hair has been cutting my hair for 35 years. So I mean, this is like almost the longest relationship other than my wife that I've had with this woman. And she used to meet with us at our church and she's a great lady. And so, but her son died suddenly and it was terrible. And so, you know, like after, I wasn't sure when she was going to get ready to go back and I need to just ask her, I still haven't done it. And I just kind of given her some space. I figure she'd let me know when she's ready to go. We got 10 days before this airs. Yeah. To make it right. I hope so. I hope it happens. And so, so, so Lisa, but I needed my haircut. It was bad. It was just, it was just out of control. And so I had to, I was preaching on Easter Sunday. And so I had to go to Lisa lines meal with one of the ladies at her place, which is this is a bougie. Like, I don't know. I walked in there. You need to just let it go. I should. I should be like you notices. I know. I don't care. And they don't notice. No, I made the appointment. Oh, yeah. Lisa was like, you gotta go. So I'd go in there. But Jase, it was just like that episode. Like when I got, I came in there, I felt like I was doing something wrong. Like I just had a bad feeling about, I was sitting there and I was looking around and I was looking at my, and I had podcast after and so I texted Lisa said, I don't think I can stay. I think I'm gonna have to just. I can't do this. But for clarity, I'll never watch Seinfeld. I only watched it through my what my missy. Yeah. She loves it. She was quoting a Seinfeld episode. She would know the episode. We had a two hour Bible study last night. I won't get into that, but I will in a future date. And, but she kept making this quote and laughing. Yeah. And then she said again, and I finally just said, I don't know what you're talking about. She was like, Seinfeld episode. She like knew the number. And I said, babe, I watched it through you, which was, she was watching. I mean, I found it funny. What was the quote? You remember? I don't know. I could get it. She said it like five times. So this, I'll tell you this, I'll ask her and when she says it, y'all can. And I'll know it because I've watched them several times. But so I let it, she finally about when I was ready to bolt, they call me back. And so she was a very nice lady and she did a good job of my hair. And she's a barber. Yeah. And so she, she's gave me this advice, blah, blah, blah, do this, do that. And she said, can we do another appointment? Well, now we're at the point of no return because I'm like, oh man, what are I, She said, can I see you again? Exactly. Can we meet again? And I'm like, I said, well, you know, I got a lady, I got this lady and she's like in grieving, but I plan on going back and she said, well, we'll just make it. And if you need to cancel, I'm like, oh, she just sucking me into this situation. So I did make the appointment. It's hanging out there like a big muscle ball just waiting on me, but I'm waiting to hear. So hopefully by the time this airs, we'll be all set. So did you ever get here by she's typing? So her has the little three dots. So is she in town? She is in town. Cause her birthday is tomorrow. Yeah. I haven't forgotten. Do you know that? Just make it. We're just reminding you. Her and Willie and my granddaughter, her anniversary is on the same day. And so she's, she and Joey are spending their second anniversary down at the Southern Lair, which is fun for them. So that's been a good thing too. Yeah. No, I'm taking her out to eat tomorrow. Good company. Oh yeah. So while Jason is looking that up, Alex, so I wanted to have Alex and Lisa on because our movie is coming out in just a couple of weeks from when this airs and things are kind of starting to drop now. So we wanted to mention it and talk a little bit about it. Alex works for tread lively with forks for Zach and Zach's company and Corey co produced the movie and it's going to be on lifetime. It's on May the 16th, Saturday is when it's going to premiere. So if you, I've never seen a lifetime movie. This will be my first to both be a part of and see. You're setting the bar pretty high here. Well, yeah. Exactly. The first one you ever watch is the one about you. All right. I have it. Lane, so I'll give you the context. He was trying to make up for being bald by George by wearing a toupee. And so. Oh yeah. I remember the toupee. Yeah. And then she was there having a conversation. Here was the line. She kept saying, you're bald. George. No. I used to be bald, but she was doing it with such passion. And then she reaches over and snatches it. You're bald. And then there's another episode or it may be linked to that one where George is dating a woman who's bald. But it kind of fits. She's. Oh. I knew it fit the context of what you were saying was something about hair. And I thought, what was that she kept saying to pay. So that's pretty funny. Yeah. Classic episode. Those those sign felons out there. I appreciate it. So, uh, so I was going to ask you. So Alex works, uh, worked on the project for tread lively. It's kind of our liaison. And I don't know what, what all did you do with the people in the script? Writer too. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, whenever you're telling stories that could potentially involve crimes or certainly real people, I'm going to miss to me. Certainly when it involves people who actually exist. This is our live story people. So you know, it's a lot of them. There's some crimes in there. Um, but whenever you tell stories about real people, certainly if they're still living, uh, you kind of have to cite your sources. And, um, so that's what I helped out with and conducting interviews with you guys and, uh, pulling excerpts from your book and just kind of citing all the sources of this is where this was talked about, you know, and certain names were changed to protect people's, you know, not to protect the innocent, to protect their privacy. Most people do. Uh, so it's, it's, it's interesting because you were on the first call that we had with the writer, which is kind of about an hour and a half discussion of, you know, she's started into our story. She's read our book, but now we're making it for TV. And you got to remember when you watch this, when it comes out, you have to kind of compress your life. It's like the blind, but the same thing, Zach, with that. So you can't like, you have to tell the story in, you know, 90 minutes or, you know, whatever. So it took us, it took us 90 minutes to get through the overview. So then it was like, all right, this is definitely going to have to be cut down a little bit. But I just want to know your takes. I don't know that I've asked you this. Have you all seen it? No. Oh, no, we're just like everybody. They've got a rough cut they offered for us to see, but I want to wait till it gets a little cleaner before I see it. TV movies are quick. They're like the episodes of the show. It won't be long. For me, right along in my early 40s, I just kind of hit this plateau of I just couldn't lose weight like I once could. And I just felt like I was beginning to put on pounds that weren't going anywhere. So one of the things we realize is that our bodies, when we feel stress, it can actually slow your metabolism and it can hold on to fat and it makes it harder to lose weight, even if you're eating less and doing more. That's why a lot of quick fixes don't last. And I found that out the hard way because I tried every diet you could take. And HD weight loss, they focus on restoring your metabolism so that your body works with you, not against you. And that's where the real change happens. And I'm telling you, I'm living proof of this. Here's a picture of me at the beginning of the journey, a bit portly as you see. Here I am now feeling way better, 80 pounds less. I'm off of all my meds that I was taking before. I don't have a CPAP machine anymore, have much more energy right now. And when you call, and you mention Al Robertson, yours truly, you'll get two, three weeks and they'll pay for the cost of your food. That's $1,500 value right off the bat. Call 864-644-1900 now. That's 864-644-1900. Or you can go to myphdweightloss.com because the goal isn't to lose weight once. It's never to have to start over again. That's 864-644-1900. Go to myphdweightloss.com. It'll be soon. We'll get to see it four days. But I was going to ask you this. So the first time we were on that call, I mean, we're getting into conversations. We're greedy, greedy. Exactly about some really hard times in our life, which included, you know, infidelity and some other things. So I was curious as to what your take was as being our daughter to so I know you've heard the story. In fact, I want you to tell that story about South Africa to the first time you kind of heard your mom's testimony. But what was that like to hear it from even knowing our story and kind of where we've been 26 years later? But I mean, you're our daughter. It felt a little weird to me. You've been there. So I just was curious what you thought. It was awkward at times. And of course, yeah, I knew I knew the overarching story, but getting really into those details, things I'd never even thought to ask before. Like, did you know where this person lived? Did you know this person from high school? Like, just things that I'd never thought about. And I actually kind of felt really bad for you guys, like having to go back into all those memories and dredge it all up. Because that's something, even though you've overcome it, you don't want to spend a lot of brain space going back to that time and those memories. So diving into it, I could tell was a little bit, you know, painful for you guys, even though you told the story a thousand times, that amount of detail was... We don't go into that level that you have to do to have a movie. It was a whole other level. But yeah, you know, it was good. It was work for me. So it's kind of like trying to switch it off a little bit. Like, all right, now we're working. Try to hold your shocked face until the camera is off. So you lived through it as a preteen. You were probably about 10 or so when all that was going on. I'm guessing 10 to 12. Yeah, like 11, I think 11 or 12. So later, we were doing a mission trip in South Africa when you were in high school and you went with us. And by this time, we've had enough healing to now, or at least an hour, 10, a little bit about what we had been through. In first time, we've been talking about the testimony of the Spirit. It's in the idea about who God is and who Christ is. And it sort of relays over. It's not the exact same thing as that. But it is, you know, from Revelation 12 tells us that when we see God working in us, we then can use that to help other people find the pathway to Christ. Right. And we call it testimony. It's not the same eyewitness as what they had, but it is a picture. So I want to know you heard that the first time and had a huge impact on you because you'd really never heard your mom articulate it. Right. Tell about that. Well, and that was the first time that I had heard her story about, you know, the sexual assaults that had happened to her whenever she was young. I didn't know that. And at that point, I was only a couple of years past my own sexual assault that had happened to me. So it hit me right in the chest. It was like, whoa, you know, I'm not the only one this has happened to, you know, that on academic level, but then to see, like, hear it from your own mom. It's like, wow, OK, now I see more about you. I know more about you. I understand a little bit more about, you know, why you are the way you are or where the way you were. And it also opened a doorway for you to talk to us about that. Because I mean, that had been a while since we've been out. Yeah, I don't think I'd ever. I don't think you had. I've never told anyone about that before. And then I heard that story and it was like, OK, now I have to let this out a little bit instead of just keeping it all inside. And it's not a story that I'm ready to totally share with the world yet. I mean, maybe someday, but it was certainly eyeopening for me to know that someone that I loved and respected had also had something like that. Which is exactly why we have done what we've done through the years. And that's that's the idea when it points back to Christ, because we talk about this a lot in the guard. We have a lot of garden conversations. But if you think about it, Satan's best tool, because Adam and Eve were innocent at the beginning. I mean, there has been no sin. There's this relationship with God. And his thing is always about taking away innocence. That's what he loves to do. He loved that. That first time somebody enters into a sin or a situation is like that's when he revels the most. And then you have to deal with the consequences and the consequences. Well, it opens up so many other doorways. The first time that happens, then it's like, whoa, this is a whole new world of hurt over this or engaging in this behavior over and over. Or, you know, a hundred different ways that it could really wreck your life whenever something bad happens to you that you didn't deserve. It really it changes your psyche for sure. And you have to go back and undo that with a lot of work mentally. And it and it shapes the way you live your life. Oh, yeah, for sure. The roads that you go down and the the thoughts that you have about yourself, one, the thoughts you have about other people, especially when it's an assault on a on a child. Then it the way you think about men is totally different, you know, and you have to have that thought process redone by God. I mean, really, that's about the only way I know how to say it. He has to totally recreate that thought process in you in order for you to understand that it's not about men and it's not about you and men. It's about sin, right? Well, and I didn't realize until probably it was about 12 years later, the first time I actually went to therapy for what I've been through. And whenever he pointed out to me like, OK, this happened to you. Therefore, you've been acting out in this way. You've been rationalizing these types of decisions and you and going back and looking at that, it was like, wow, this shaped my entire life up until this point. And so then you've really got to now whenever I make a decision, it's like, am I doing this for this reason? Or am I doing it for what I really think I'm doing it for? You kind of have to go through a process of retraining your brain to think about things in a different way. Are you going to say something, Sam? Yeah, one of my therapist friends, I think I mentioned on the podcast before, he said all behavior is explainable in its context. And when I think about like all the years of ministry that we've all been a part of, I mean, the sexual abuse thing is like the dominant thing that just emerges in every, almost every single case of like traumatic experiences and people that we've dealt with in like hard places. It's like, there's this thing that happened in their past that they can't shake. And it's so, I think one of the reasons why it's so difficult is because sometimes the assault isn't, it isn't as violent as you would like think of an assault. It's more, a lot of times it's more grooming. It's more of periods of time where like manipulations involved and there's all kind of like coercion and gaslighting. Very seditious. Yes. And I remember like there was a kid one time when we were doing the college ministry at West Freerow and we were at my house one night and we just had a bottle study. Everybody had left except for two students. And I didn't know this particular student very well yet, but I knew his friend. And so we're talking about his life and he's kind of telling me this whole like family of origin story and just how he grew up. And it was, it was really rough. And then all of a sudden he said, he said, I got to tell you something. I don't know why I'm going to tell you this, but I've never told anybody. And I knew, I know exactly what he was about to say. I just knew it because we'd been around these conversations enough that I knew it was coming next. And this guy had a big old beard and long hair and he just started to weep. And he was crying so hard that he could not even speak. And this collapsed in my living room and Jill's like nodding me to go over there and console him. And so I just went kind of next to him, put my arm around him. I was like, man, it's okay. You know, whatever you got to tell us, like it's okay. And then he basically said that he had been sexually abused as a early teen by an older man. And so I said, so he told us the whole story and so I said, what are you doing tomorrow? And he said, nothing. I said, won't you come out here and help me work? I got to do a bunch of work over here at the house. We were building a house next door. And so he came back the next day and he was dating this girl who also turned out had been severely sexually abused as well. They were living immoral together. And I don't know, I was at the doggit and I felt like the Holy Spirit told me to say this to him. I said, are you sleep with your girlfriend and try to prove that you're not gay? And he was like, he just started crying. So yeah. And I said, I said, why? Because he had obviously a physical reaction to the abuse and he's thinking, well, I must be gay. And so that like seeped in his psyche at a young age. And so he carried this lie with him. And so I took him out to my car and I pushed my cigarette lighter in. And you know, they used to have their cigarette lighters. You push in and you pull it out and it's red hot. And I pulled that thing out and I said, I want you to take your hand to your finger and put it on here and hold it for 60 seconds. I want to show you something. And he started to do it and I pulled it back and said, no, you're not supposed to do it. But as he mentioned, my boy, I said, why were you reluctant to do that? And he said, because it would burn and hurt. And I said, why would that hurt? He goes, because it's, it's, it's fire. I said, yeah. I said, but why does it hurt? He's, what do you mean? Why does it hurt? Why would that hurt? Why would that manifest in pain? He goes, my body's made that way. I don't know what he talking about. I said, exactly. And I said, in your body responded to what your experience you had as well as it was supposed to respond. But that doesn't mean anything about your sexuality. And I'm telling you all, it was like a moment where the Holy Spirit just like took the veil and just pulled it off this guy's eyes. And he was like, you know, it's like a moment like of, of just clarity. Now I'm not saying that that was a one done for him, but like it was, like, that's the process of the evil one. He steeped those lies in us. And, and I think they're the sexual abuse thing is so prominent that we, but we don't talk about it in the church because it's hard to talk about even here. It's like uncomfortable, right? We don't talk about it, but if you look at the stats, one out of four boys have been sexually abused and one out of three women. Yeah. One out of three women. I mean, like this is like a, like this is, this is a real thing that a good chunk of the population is dealt with. And we don't even have a context to talk about it in the church. And I think that's a shame. One of the difficult things right now, if you're trying to buy health insurance is it is ridiculously expensive. I mean, I don't know if the last time you guys would check, but it is outrageously priced. And it's one of the reasons why a lot of believers are turning to Christian healthcare ministries. Let's be honest, healthcare, it's an absolute mess. Around 110 million Americans don't have any health insurance and another hundred million are stuck carrying medical debt. Christian healthcare ministries, believers are saving about $464 a month on average. And you're getting financial support and spiritual support from other Christians. CHM is doing all of this since 1981. They've been around a while. It's the original health cost sharing ministry. I'm a big fan of this. I'm a member and over the years they've helped share more than 13 billion in medical bills. What stuck out to me about CHM when I first heard about it was one that this is about believers coming together and sharing burdens together. Sounds a whole lot like the first century church. So see why so many believers across the nation are better with CHM. It started today by visiting chministries.org slash unashamed at chministries.org slash unashamed. Well, it's so good that you brought that up because it's the cleansing nature of it. And for Lisa, you know, it's 33 years old before it finally all came to the point of being able to lay that at Jesus' feet, which then changed everything for us, which is why now 26 years later you can do a movie about it. And you say, well, why would you want to do that? Well, dad asked me the same question about the blind. He's like, why would I want to do it? Why would I want to put the worst part of my life on a movie screen? I was like, dad, I get it. He said, would you want to do that? I said, no. And here I am. And he said, would you want to do that? I said, no, I would not. I said, but dad, you've been talking about you did it in four or five short fill clips to see. I said, I've been talking about you did it in four or five short fill clips to say it about your life. And I know you haven't gone into a ton of detail. And I know it's hard to like see that again, but you got to realize this medium that we now have of movies and television and video and the podcast, what we're doing now, it's powerful. And there's a ton of people out there that are either right where you were or they're right where you are. And so I said, it will make an impact. I said, I'm sure we will. And that so that was the exact same motivation for us. Well, and he was quite graphic because I had the same experience as you, Alex, when my parents were so open just in conversations about what that does. I was like, I can't believe you saying this out loud, you know, because he would do that in front of other people because he was sharing Jesus with other people. And these same things would come up. Like you said, the stats don't lie. And I've had so many studies with men and women who had these similar experiences. But since I had, I was raised in such a graphic setting, I'm thankful for it now. Yeah. Because this is, this is real. Let's talk about it. And the common theme is people find a way to start over when they discover Jesus. They're like, oh, this is, this is my chance. Yeah. And to reset. Yeah. And they're like, wow, there's a way I can be new. I can, I mean, we, we read that Hebrews 10 about what Jesus does, you know, with our, which what we focus on is he cleanses our conscience. But that, that verse that says, and he also washes our body with pure water. I mean, why put something like that in there? Because it's giving you a visual of even if something you did or something that was done to you. Yeah. He uses that illustration of like having a bath being made clean. It's a reset for you. And it's such a visual, personal way to look at that. And there's a reason he says, confess your sins so you'll be healed. Because we tend to do the opposite. Everybody says, oh, all have sinned and all have been sinned against at some point. That's right. And but you, you, when you say, well, let's hear about it, people are like, oh, no, I don't want to actually say it out loud. But it's okay because the person across the street from you has had the same experience. And once you kind of get down that past that awkwardness, you realize this is so helpful to just get it out there. And God deals with it and we move on. It's so important to a couple of things I want to say. One is, is that Jason and I, and we've talked about it a lot on the podcast, but we were at the same age, 14, when we faced our decision of doubt based on everything we had been raised up to that point. And so I made a decision to follow in the same footsteps as what dad had done for about four years. I went down that trail. You went a completely different way. At first you had just complete doubt in any of it, but you were at your reaction point and then you decided it was real and you didn't want to go down that path. And I found that all the primaritalities I've done through the years that people that come out of a divorced home or some situation like we're describing a rough upbringing, that's the two doors they face. I'm either going to never go down the road that I saw because I never want to do that. I know that's a bad road, but you'll still have issues. Oh yeah. They're just different. They're just different issues. Or you'll go down the road and doing the same thing, expect different results, which is insanity. So we see the same thing, but Zach, I want to mention that story you told was so beautiful about the person you were working with. But even last night, it just so happened that we were talking to a 76 year old man who had had a similar experience when he was young. So we're done at 70 years. And I knew about it because we're friends. And so he had confided in me many years ago and we prayed and, you know, he's gotten to a good place in terms of how he is, but he still was holding onto some stuff. And just within the last year or a few months actually went to one of our men's retreats and finally released the last of the burden. And, you know, it was tearfully when he was telling us about it last night. And you just think about that. That was 70 years of caring a burden of being abused and not really being able to talk about it outside of a few select friends like me. And finally unburdening that with some other guys that then he said, what was this statement? I feel 500 pounds lighter. And so just that idea of offloading that which the evil one has planted because that's what he does. It's just he weighs you and weighs you. And that's why Jesus says my burden is light because the idea is I can take that, but you have to give it. But sometimes it's so hard to get. Yeah, come to me. All you who are weary and heavy laden, and I'll give you rest. That's such a true statement. We were I was at a retreat. It's funny. He said that 70 year old. I was at a retreat last year and I've been asked to go on these for a long time and I've never I've never gone on one. I hate to burst the bubble. This is something they do in the retreat. I'm going to say it. Maybe I shouldn't say that. Well, there's an exercise. Yeah, there's an exercise that you do where essentially it reveals in the room who else has had similar experiences. And it's shocking when you're like, oh, wow. And one of the things that gets revealed is, you know, who and who and here or how many people in this room have been sexually abused. And so there we did the exercise next day. A 70 year old man stands up. This guy was an elder in the church in the local church, 70 years old. And he stood up and he said, when we did that exercise yesterday in my mind, I thought I didn't even like affirm that I had been sexually abused because in my mind I hadn't been. He said, but I'm going to tell you something I haven't told anybody in 63 years when I was seven or eight years old. He said, I was abused and I've not. He said, I've carried this with me. I'm an elder in the church. Even when I can, we did that exercise in my mind buried that so deep. He said, but there's been this cloud of shame over my life for 70 years. So this isn't just like this isn't just the, you know, the people who haven't come to Christ. This man was a, when it was an elder in the church and could not express and couldn't even let that bubble to the surface. And I'm telling you, there's no doubt in my mind that there are people, like a lot of you listen to this podcast right now, that's in there. And the antidote to shame, because that's what the devil does. He wants to shame you and he wants you to, he wants to say, you're disgusting and you should go cover up with something. Go find a thick leaf and go hide from God because you were disgusting. But that is, but what the gospel shows us very clearly, even in Genesis is that God goes after he is relentless and seeking Adam and Eve out. He goes after them and then God uncovers their nakedness and says, yeah, I'm going to provide you with a suitable covering, which is a foreshadow of Christ. But that is a, that, that shame, the antidote for shame is to come out of hiding. Yeah. And why you speak that out in the context of a, of a, of a, and then I'll just throw your stuff out there to anybody. You need to, you need to share that in a very safe place that you need to find those people that are spirit-filled believers that you could say, this is what happened to me. And when you speak that out, what happens is that it robs the devil from the ability to accuse you. And if you're surrounded by the people of God, then they're going to testify to you that that's a lie. And then that collective community around you is going to expose through the Holy Spirit the truth about who you really are and who you really are. Is, is, is you're someone that God values and you're someone that God loves or someone that God, God, God, someone that loves, you're someone that God loves and someone that he died for. And, and I just encourage you like, like, get, get it out. Get whatever that is, just get that out. And that's kind of what this movie really is for you guys to. So Zach, Mother's Day is coming up and it's a reminder to me of how important the whole pro-life movement is. Because it's not just about saving babies, right? It's about taking care of mothers as well who can always have a pathway to take care of their own child. Well, I think about the woman that gave birth to Ruth. I'm like, I'm so thankful that she chose life. I know that was a difficult decision for her and I'm super, super thankful. When a woman is facing an unplanned pregnancy, Mother's Day can feel heavy, uncertain, isolated. But pre-born network clinics offer them compassion, a free ultrasound where they can see their baby and hear that tiny little heartbeat. This Mother's Day, you can be part of that moment. And we love that. That's why we're so in love with the pro-life movement. Just $28 provides one ultrasound that's less than a dollar a day and it could save a life. $140 reaches five mothers. If you're a business owner, you might consider a larger donation to claim a write-off. A donation of $1,000, $2,000, $10,000 or $15,000 will sponsor an ultrasound machine for a needy clinic helping to save countless babies' lives for years to come. All gifts are tax-deductible and will reach eternity. So we're asking you to get involved today. To be involved, simply dial Pound 250 and say the keyword, baby. That's Pound 250, baby. Or you can visit preborn.com slash unashamed. That's preborn.com slash unashamed. Zach, I appreciate you again for the second time being a part of shepherding our stories out in this way. It was an interesting process for us. Alex and Anna as well, our oldest daughter, went with us to visit the set. So we got to see a scene being filmed, which I've mentioned before, me and Dad on the front porch. And it was really special to me. So it's called Faith and Forgiveness, a Duck Dynasty love story. It was the title they settled on. Maddie's got a picture. So if you're watching this, she's going to show you some of the early artwork for the film. But today, when this drops, it's also the first day of the trailer for the movie is dropping. So be sure to look for that. Give a little look at it. So I also want to talk about the final scene. Normally, you don't tell how movie ends, but since we're here, you kind of know it ends well in terms of the result of it. But it's like the Titanic. Yes, I had the Titanic. You knew I was going to happen, but you were still in tree. But the opposite of the. Yeah, yeah. And you got to tell some of this stuff in between, right? So the final scene, if everything stays like I hope it does. You know, one time I did a cameo in a movie and I got shot and killed in the movie. It was the coolest thing I've ever done to they call it getting squibbed where they shoot you in like the packets burst. Yeah, they got the packet. So it looks like you got shot in the chest. And so we aired it at the church and I told everybody and I'd seen it in the trailer. So I knew it was in the movie. I thought they'll tell everybody our church and 400 people are watching. And so we watched the movie and it never happened. So I kept thinking, well, I guess they're going to put it in the like closing like credits or something. Well, it never happens. I get up and I'm just like the walk of shame. It's called the cutting room floor. So then I, so I text the director. I was like, dude, what happened to my to the kill scene and the final thing. And he said, man, he said, it was my, it was my, he said, here's the way he put it. He said, it was my Oliver Stone moment. I was so proud of it. And it was in it up until the last week, but they tested it in audiences and people were like, they couldn't understand why I got shot because it wasn't really pivotal to the story. So they cut it. The last cut was me. You learned your lesson there. Didn't show. I did. So I'm a little hesitant about telling this because it may not make it. Well, you're in the movie. I can tell you that. Okay. So the, so the last scene, if it happens the way we think it's going to happen, it morphs from the young version of us, which is going to take place from when we were teenagers until we were in our late 20s and kind of had this whole come to Jesus. For a compact story, it's a, it's a long range of time. It is in the same actors place though time, but the last scene is, is the real is us like it morphs into us. So what was that like for you? I mean, your kids were super excited. Pearl has kind of the little glam role in the last scene. Yeah. Yeah. She was strutting around after that. I can tell you. Yeah. Um, it was fun. I mean, filming, filming something like that is always a little bit nerve wracking because they're like, all right, and again, and do it again. You remember that move to the left a little and do it again. And so by the end of it, the kids were like, we thought this would be fun. Um, so it's not fun. Yeah. I was like, you're welcome to show business guys. It sounds fun to start doing it. Um, well, sausage tastes good, but making it's pretty disgusting. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I've done that too in my career as a chef. Yeah. Get your hands dirty. But, um, yeah, it was cool. It, um, I think it's going to wrap everything up nicely. Well, it was fun for us because, you know, when we, when we go out and speak the last slide, we always use in our presentation, even if it's pro life or marriage is a picture of us and our kids and our grandkids. Every year we take a new picture. And so we keep that upgraded as we go along and you get to, you know, for us, we get to speak and we get to watch our family literally grow in front of an audience. And of course we also show a picture of Jason. It's mom and dad. Dad has no beard and no shirt on. And, uh, it's me and you. And I'd say we're probably in the picture. We're probably about six and two. You're about two. And then she's pregnant with Willie in the picture. And so I like to show that 72 version of us. And then I love showing the picture like the last time we filmed together on the show. Cause, you know, people can't imagine Zach, you talked about having a simple situation, something that's harmed you. It's hard sometimes for people to see past what the evil one blinds them with to see the potential of what could be there. If we could trust in him and have it happen. And so in our case with our immediate with my, my and Jason's family, I love showing that picture. And I love doing the same thing with us. Cause at least in our teenagers, we never imagined having, you know, two daughters, two son-in-laws, six grandchildren, seven now with Joey and what God has blessed us with. And so it's always just like that. When you think you're going to give in and walk away from your family or walk away from God, don't do it. You know, I mean, I've said this before on the podcast that the main difference between Judas and Peter. Cause they both betrayed Jesus in a different way on the night. The biggest difference was one could wait three days and the other one couldn't. I mean, Judas took his life before Jesus resurrected. Maybe that would have changed him. Maybe that would have changed him too. But he didn't wait. He just selfishly took his life because of bitterness and Peter waited and look what happened with him. He wasn't being the, you know, leader of the early church. Well, I wanted to bring this up in, and we're going to get to this in 1st John's. I won't get into the nuts and bolts of it, but there's an interesting passage in 1st John 5. Cause when, I think when you talk about, it's one thing for us to have our own sins and deal with the consequences. It's another thing when you're sinned against and that affects you because always in the back of your mind, your safety and your security has been damaged. And, and it really, you know, my heart goes, goes out to them and nothing makes me more angry than, you know, for a kid to be abused. Or I mean, it just, I love that Matthew 18 when Jesus, I mean, he takes the gloves off and he's like, whoa, to that person that causes a little child to stumble. It'd be better for him to be cast in a lake with a millstone tied around his neck. So you feel that vibe of protection and safety, but there's an interesting verse without getting into the technicals cause we will on the next podcast. Cause it starts talking about a sin that leads to death and the whole context is just struggling with living a life in Christ and you're still making mistakes. That's why he said early, you know, confess your sins. But I wanted to bring this up because I think it's helpful when you think about abuse and things like that. And this is a first John 5 18. It says, we know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin, which at face value is confusing cause you're like, but I am. But, and that's kind of his point. You're now in Christ. But then he has this one little phrase on what he's talking about. And it says the one who was born of God. And that one is capitalized cause he's talking about Jesus. He keeps him safe and the evil one cannot harm him. And I think it's a, there's something psychological about that. No matter what's happened to you when you discover why Jesus came and who he is, you're like, when in the sin context and our struggle, whether you were sinned against. And that's the biggest problem that calls sin in your life. Or you just live like an idiot, you know, there's a, there's a place you can go who happens to be a person that can give you that sense of safety and protection from the evil one. And I really think that that verse was written for these kinds of discussions. And we found that safety for sure. So check it out. Faith and forgiveness. A Duck Dynasty love story is going to be on a lifetime made the 16th today. The trailer drops. You can check it out. See what's what it's like. We will as well. Cause we as a this airing, we haven't seen the film yet ourselves. So we're super excited about it. Zach, thanks for making it happen. You and Corey and others and Alex and Lisa. Thank you for being on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.