Mailbag! What Schools Could Thrive As An Independent In The Modern Era? | College Football

Welcome back to the Cover 3 Podcast with your hosts Chip Patterson, Tom Fernelli, Danny Cannell, and Bud Elliott. It's your call for the best college football coverage from National Signing Day to the National Championship and everything in between. CBS Sports presents the Cover 3 Podcast. And welcome back to the Cover 3 Podcast here on CBS Sports. That's Tom Frunelli. That's Danny Cannell. I'm Chip Patterson coming to you live at YouTube.com slash Cover 3. And everywhere we get your podcast on demand, thanks for hanging out. Smash that subscribe. Smash that like and come and join us in the chat, a.k.a. the Cover 3 Tailgate, where they are asking. They are demanding more Purdue talk. Yeah, no, we've got actually more productive questions from the tailgate. We asked, you delivered the Cover 3 tailgate rocking and rolling with lots to get into here on an interactive edition of the Cover 3 podcast. That's what Thursdays are for. We've got questions from the big old bag of mail, including the one that you see here in the headline. Kind of a fun opportunity to look back at the past, but think about the present. what schools might be able to thrive as an independent here in the modern era. So I'm sure that there's a, there are, I'm positive. There are a lot of suggestions in the tailgate. We'll get to that one here in just a little bit. But let's start with a little bit of a fun one just to get us rocking and rolling. Garrett jumped in the tailgate and said, which school has an underrated color scheme? Garrett offers a suggestion of Minnesota, but then also if you want to take the other side of color scheme, what is a color scheme that should not be used? So underrated color scheme. I think like, for example, I think that USC probably gets rightly rated. Correct? Like no LSU probably gets rightly rated. Like there are some of those iconic ones. I would not say that those are underrated. Those are ones that everyone sort of discusses. What would be an underrated color scheme? First of all, it should be pointed out for the listeners that Garrett is a Texas A&M fan, so he might be just kind of biased towards maroon. So he sees Minnesota in that maroon and gold, and he's just like, that's a great color scheme because he's maroon and white. I do agree. I think it's a good color scheme. I think one that's kind of criminally underserved, and I'm kind of wearing it now, sort of, but like brown and yellow, like Wyoming. Wyoming. Yeah, I kind of like that. I'm a huge black and orange guy, like Oregon State. Oklahoma State. Oklahoma State. I love that. So that's cool. I think that's underused, though. What about one we're going to see a lot more of? North Dakota State. Green and yellow. Green and yellow? Disgusting combination. Green and gold. That's why I brought it up. it's gonna stir up some emotion one way or another terrible like i would rather die than wear those colors what wait wait wait wait hold on oh packers is that what you're oh okay okay okay sorry bears are moving to indiana and now tom's all cranky about uh about some nfc north rivalries you might be surprised by some of my thoughts about the bears moving to indiana chip patterson oh you like it i don't think it's well do we really want to get into it here sure i don't think it's that terrible i i think if you look at where the super bowl was just played it was in santa clara 40 miles from san francisco home of the san francisco 49ers they hosted a super bowl everybody that came to town the media were they in santa clara or were they in san francisco They were in San Jose, right? Both. Yeah. So if Indiana wants to raise its taxes to build a stadium for the Bears and then the Bears want to host Super Bowls and NCAA tournaments, do you think the people that come to town are going to be staying in Hammond, Indiana, or will they be coming to stay in Chicago? So Illinois will get all the tourist revenue while Indiana pays the taxes. I don't think it's that horrible for the state of Illinois. That's – Hey, listen. That's trouble thinking. Yeah. Let's go. All right, back to color schemes. So LSU often, you know, another one that I think gets discussed. Are we in on purple across the board? Because I think TCU can give you some good stuff. I know that's a lot of purple and black, a lot of purple and silver. I can roll with TCU as maybe an underrated color scheme. You know what I love? I'm wearing it now, the sissy blue. from UCLA. I like it. Ole Miss, when they do their light blue, I like Carolina's colors. Carolina blue when they mix in a light blue. If there was just a color that's nice on the eyes, easy to wear their gear, can match with a lot of different stuff, those light blues I like a lot, although they are soft. What about... Danny, we need more turquoise and orange like the Miami Dolphins. Just really, really soft colors where you show up and you're like, are going to kick this team's ass. They can keep playing in the cold. Sneaky use of baby blue that I am a fan of is Tulane breaking it out. Yeah. Blue and green is not always what you think of, but they are the wave, and those are ocean-friendly. I mean, ocean is different colors all over the world, but in general, your blues and greens, you're not sure that it would work, but to me, to my eye, absolutely. Maybe a little underrated right there. Any other ones? Hot pink and neon green. We need more of that. Seabrook. Who would be the first college football team to adapt those colors? Before we jump into the big old bag of mail, I'll take another one from the tailgate. This one's fun, a little bit more football-related. The comment says, I've long held that Texas would be better off if Quinn Ewers left after 2023. and Arch started the 2024 season. After one year of Arch Manning starting, does this hold up or did Arch Manning need to spend 2023 and 2024 on the bench? I mean, they got to the semifinals with Quinn Ewers. Yep. And they nearly beat Ohio State before losing at the end. We saw Arch last year. Like it was not exactly a smooth ride. Like it was a very slow start. You could argue that if Arch starts 24, maybe Texas doesn't get to the playoffs. I mean, they may, they might lose a game early. They weren't expecting to. And he did play quite a bit, but still it's just, I don't know. I don't think there's any real difference. I think if you look at this year, even if Arch had a year of experience under the belt, he would still have been playing in an offense behind a really bad offensive line. I think also he probably would have left this year. and not be back for 26 to be in Las Vegas in the national championship game against Dante Moore in Oregon. Right. Which is definitely happening and book your tickets happening. I think he, I think he was going to play two full years. So if you would have started him earlier, I think he probably would have left. I think he would have been better in 2025 if he played in 2024. For sure. Definitely. But he, he did play in 20, he started like three games. I think Texas can still make the college football playoff. if Arch Manning had started 2024 and not Quinn Ewers. It is tough for me to get out of my mind. Quinn Ewers throughout his whole career had some big throws in big games. That Michigan game, Alabama, like on the road, those environments, they might not have made the playoffs. Does Arch beat Michigan in Ann Arbor? I don't know. And that was early in the season too. Remember the Arizona State game? Some of those plays he was making coming down. Four down season saving. Big X factor intangibles. So how about this? I do not know if Texas would have been better off. I think Arch would have been better off. I think he would have played better in 2025 if he'd gotten 2024. And so that's where the head coaching decisions matter. Right. I mean, it's, this was, this was Steve Sarkeesian's decision on how he wanted to manage the quarterback position, how they wanted to handle this. and it might not have been the best thing for Arch Manning's 2025 performance, but it might have been the best thing for Texas in general, especially now that we look at the rest of that quarterback room. Arch comes back for 26. Now you've got a bridge until our guy Diabel assumes the throne and wins three national championships for the Longhorns. It has long been established. It's far more important to Chip Patterson that Arch is doing well than Texas. It's too careful about Arch. It's just my analysis here. You're an Arch guy. Your big arch booster. Arch don't need no booster. Kidding. Arch don't need no booster. All right. We discussed it a little bit yesterday. We dropped it in there. So before we open up the big old bag of mail, Mikey, can we head on down to the mail room? All right, let's dive in. First of all, Danny, did you buy a Kurt Signetti headset? I did not. I've been on eBay because I've been picking up some cards. I've been up collectibles. I've been very in on. I got these new tops. I'm looking for the Mickey Mantle rookie, 52 rookie. Haven't pulled it yet. But I do have a Jeremy Pena, if you want one. Anybody wants one of those. No, so I've been on them, but I've been on the collectibles. This one set a new record for a headset. What was it? $112,000, right? Yeah. I think the previous high was like 10,000 and it was like a Superbowl headset. I think was the, what I saw the, uh, there, there's an allegation in the big old bag of mail that you, you've got it. And that one of us are going to get it. Our friend Dominic, I believe is the one who came through with it, but that's not where this question is. Okay. Okay. So we've got the question that I want to answer because we love our listeners. We want to give them the answer. I think there's also a larger discussion as well, which is a little bit more of what we've got here in the headline. But question first. From Apple username LincolnCowardRiley. Okay. We can guess where this guy is a fan of. Notre Dame, question. Notre Dame generally gets blowback for special treatment while the conferences are responsible for the collapse of the sport. My question is, what other schools other than Notre Dame could have gone or stayed independent that would have been better for the sport long-term? Imagine if Texas and USC were independent instead of ruining multiple conferences. Now, USC and Texas... I still can't figure out which school this guy ruined you for. Oh, I know, I know, I know. But USC and Texas, to me, while easy nominations for schools that could thrive as an independent, also don't have the interesting history of a Florida State, a Miami, a Penn State, of some of these schools that were independent for some time in a way that sort of allowed us to see them rise to prominence with the we'll schedule anybody anywhere type attitude. so what schools could be independent now or would the sport be better as the listener suggests if some of these schools had been independent instead of jumping around in the conference consolidation well first of all to the two schools that he mentions and i assume he's an oklahoma state fan you know but like yeah i uh like texas has not been independent since 1914 and USC is like a founding member. Yeah. I've never been independent. So I, I don't know. I would also point out to this person that Oklahoma left the big 12 at the same exact time Texas did. Um, it's a, it's a tough question to answer because you have to remember why these teams joined the conferences to begin with. Like we talked about it a little bit on the show, either yesterday or Monday, the NCAA versus Oklahoma lawsuit in 1983 that led to conferences being able to pull together their television deals and sell them themselves. Well, it's not a coincidence that in 1983, there were still 23 independent programs remaining. And there were some big names among them too. Like, let me see here. Notre Dame obviously was one. Penn State was one. virginia tech miami boston college at the time west virginia pitt lord estate syracuse south carolina louisville these are all teams rutgers these are all teams that were still independent in 1983 and then conferences said we're going to sell tv rights suddenly that's no longer the case a bunch of schools start joining conferences so 1992 comes around which was that the bowl alliance of the bowl coalition which one came first what the whole alliance is before right before bc that is the the last stage before bcs which for our younger people who don't understand what that is that was before the bcs it was we're going to try to put the one versus two together and then also we're going to take conference champions and pit them together in other big bowl games so now if you're not in a conference you're not going to be playing in the sugar bowl you're not going to be playing the Orange Bowl, you're not going to be, you know, suddenly you've got only 15 independents. 1995 comes with the Bowl Coalition which is just an advancement of the Bowl Alliance and there 12 independents Then 1998 comes and the BCS begins and there only eight independents So with the way the rules were going at the time, staying independent, unless you had a very, very, very huge brand and your own television deal, and only one school had that at the time, was not a very good chance for you. But since Notre Dame had all that kind of leverage of being Notre Dame, they were able to, you know, kind of work their way into those TV deals. So like you could say, Penn State maybe could stay independent, but if you are Penn State and you're independent, is your schedule as attractive as it is in the Big Ten? Like, are you able to sell your team to a network? Are they going to pay a whole lot of money for you if you're Florida State? Are they going to pay a whole lot of money for you just on your own? And also, there are only so many networks to go around. Streaming services weren't a thing yet. So NBC's got all their money in Notre Dame, ABC's got the Big Ten and the SEC. Why are they going to pay for a program? Is CBS at the time going to pay for its own program and be like the NBC for Notre Dame? I just don't think that if you look back at the way the landscape was, it made sense for any of these programs to stay independent. And I think that now, 30 years later, you look back and say, I wonder if how it would be. You'd probably be dead, pretty much. You'd be in a G5 league right now. What do you think about Buds? Bud's pitch if Penn State had joined the Big East instead of the Big Ten what would the ripple effects of that had been so what Penn State joined the Big Ten in 93 correct correct so in 1992 the Big East was Virginia Tech Miami Miami Syracuse Rutgers BC West Virginia Pitt Virginia Tech and temple the i think the pitch is does the big east still get rated you know in the way that they did in the early 2000s by the acc do they do they hold on and like and then all of a sudden you've got a penn state and miami which had their own rivalry coming out of the 1980s like penn state and miami are your premier programs beamer's got virginia tech on the rise does the big east still exist today because while this conversation is about independence my mind immediately goes to smaller conferences would be better for the sport. I don't think more independence would necessarily be the best thing for the sport, but if we still had smaller conferences and more regional conferences, then yeah, I, I would be a fan of that. Yeah. But I also, I still think it, maybe it takes a little longer or maybe it looks a little different. We would have still gotten to. I still think we're all coming to the stage. We're coming to it. just it looked different getting there like there's there's simply too much money involved for it not to eventually get here cory uh a pit fan points out in the tailgate people forget penn state tried to join the big east but the basketball schools blocked them because their basketball was horrid here here we are what 40 30 some odd years later buddy i got news for you ain't nothing changed by that basketball program and i'm going to again i will once again read the list of the big East schools in 1992. And you tell me how many of them are still in the big East, Miami, Syracuse, Rutgers, Boston college, West Virginia, Pitt, Virginia tech temple, not a single one. I think if Texas wanted to be independent, Texas could be independent. Yes. They tried to be pretty much, they had their own network, but their network didn't exactly like work out i mean there's a reason they joined the sec they were kind of trying to be independent so i don't know ohio state in a vacuum yeah but you've now you've got to like if you're not in the big 10 does michigan still want to play you every year like that's the other aspect of this are you still able to schedule enough games that are attractive to a television partner to get you the money that you're getting as a Big Ten school. Because I mean, you see the amount of money SEC and Big Ten schools are getting on an annual basis. That's not you can't just go independent and automatically guarantee yourself you're going to get that from somebody. But don't you think Ohio State could command that? I do too. And I think Texas might be able to command me and they had their own TV network, you know, which did you kill the longhorn network, Danny? Blood on your hands. Yes. He took it down from the inside. I do. Florida state is such a new brand. You know, they don't have the long tradition. You know, I think, you know, when all the conference suing was going around, I think that was floated around there. Florida states just go independent. Right. And yeah, it would have been great. The buyout became, you know, very cost prohibitive. That's why they're still in the ACC. I don't know. Do you think they're in the same boat as Ohio State and Texas? I don't either. That's why I don't know if they command it the way they'll – I think it's a very select group. I think the best answer to this question, as fun as it is to contemplate, is the market tells you the answer. There's nothing stopping these schools from going independent if they felt that they could make more money doing so. Alabama? So, wait, hold on. We do have buyout. Hold on. Is it SEC doesn't have a buyout or Big Ten doesn't have a buyout? One of them still has a buyout, I think. But I'm saying they could right now with the conferences, their TV deals will come to an end in 2031. They could come out and say in 2032 we're going independent. But for some reason they don't. Alabama could. I think Alabama could. Yeah, I'm just trying to think. Would Alabama pull in the kind of television ratings if they weren't playing other SEC schools? Because, I mean, if you look at the alumni bases. Probably post Nick Saban. Nick Saban elevated them to where I do think. Pre-Nick Saban, I don't think they could have. But post that dynasty, I think they would command. I think. I feel like SEC schools need each other in a way. that because oh because that's that's the selling point it's not any one of them individually it's they're all of their rivalries against each other i think i mean and i think that's a good thing i'm not saying like don't take that i think it's a very good thing that they need each other you see like the tv ratings for these games they're incredible because every single fan base is passionate about their school so you get two fan bases watching every single game because they care that damn much and it does well for TV. But if Alabama suddenly has to play more games against Memphis or other programs, do they get the same TV ratings? I don't know. Georgia? I'm trying to go down the list of literally the programs who've got the most team subscribers on our app. They're just like, who's signing up? Who's clicking? Using that as sort of a launching point data set. it's Notre Dame it's Alabama um it's USC nah you don't think that west coast brand pulling in a whole region of the country there was they would need to like remember there was the conversation when USC and Michigan were not signing on to that I can't remember whether it's equity or capital and I don't feel like having finance bros call me on it but remember there was like a deal that was presented to the Big Ten they ended up not agreeing to and the reporting suggested that USC and Michigan were in lockstep to not agree to this new deal either an influx of equity or capital or something but there was in that conversation well what if USC and Michigan just go independent together and that's where I think USC could break off with a club of other traditional powers I don't think USC could step out on its own and be like yep Notre Dame's independent, UConn's independent, and we are too, baby. I don't think that they, I don't think that they would have the commands to be able to match what they're getting from the Big Ten and that television deal. Yeah, my answer to whether USC could do it would be, remember, I don't know, was it this year or last year when Penn State was on the road against USC? It was the CBS game, right? Yes. And, you know, big game, USC, Penn State, two huge brands. Two brands were talking about going independent. CBS broadcast was very tight on the field for some reason. We weren't seeing a lot of the seats. And I think that answers the question of whether USC could afford to go independent or not. As long as they're going 12 and 0 every year, USC could afford to go independent. But if they go eight and four, they can't afford it. And also to pull back, Danny, to pull back my data set, the Wisconsin Badgers have more fans that have opted in for, uh, for like alerts and updates and things than, than USC has. So, and no one's out. I mean, I'm not sending a shot at Madison, but nobody's out here making the argument that Wisconsin's at the top of the list to ready to go independent. That's another one that I think is, is hooked in. So if we were to make the list, is it just Ohio state and Texas, Michigan Michigan yeah I think everybody else needs somebody else nothing wrong with needing somebody yeah there's nothing wrong with that because there was another arm of this ESPN's Dan Wetzel on the College Game Day podcast made the comment that it was told to him that the Ohio State Michigan game alone has a 100 million dollar valuation And I sounds right to me, but I would add on to that in the conversation that you can't make the whole plane out of the black box. You can't like if Ohio State and Michigan played each other three times a year, it's not worth three hundred million dollars. Right. The reason why Ohio State, Michigan is worth one hundred million dollars is because it is at the end of this season where they have gone through this whole path to line up at this final meeting point. at the last week of the regular season. That it is the game and carries that valuation because of being in the Big Ten and because of the common opponents and because of their pursuit of a Big Ten championship. That while that is true, and you can look at other teams and programs that have high valuations in a vacuum and on a spreadsheet, to try and think that you're just going to be able to replicate that without the current environment, I think is a little bit off. but I'm not great with numbers. We've discussed this often. I think the, yep. And to finish, to finish the entire conversation in 2026, there will be like 140 schools at the FBS level. Now everybody's jumping into the FBS. Only two of them will be independent. There's a reason for it. Yeah. Notre Dame and Yukon. It's not fun in the wilderness. Joey, what about Duke for basketball? I could see Duke basketball going independent. Just to get away from North Carolina because they're so scared of them. They're so scared. All the violence. The violence from those baby blue boosters. They don't want to get any of their coaches hurt from those violent Tar Heel fans. Old Jussie Shire. Jussie Shire. Coming up on the other side, more of your questions and our answers. Next. Back here on the Cover 3 podcast, let's sort of keep the conversation going from the big old bag of mail. This one, a former independent football program that joined the American Athletic Conference a while back, before their arrivals from Navy did because his Apple username is Navy2026natty. Hey guys, I love the podcast. As a diehard Navy fan, I have witnessed firsthand how culture and continuity can be a massive difference maker. Obviously, they play a G5 schedule and had athletes they don't normally have like Eli Heidenreich, Blake Horvath, and Landon Robinson. But Navy had back-to-back 10 win seasons with players that largely had no other D1 offers coming out of high school. I know it is naive in this era to think you can just keep your players and have continuity, but I think that culture specifically is hugely undervalued nationally. I think picking coaches and specifically recruiting players that boost team culture could be higher up, should be higher up on teams' priority lists. Indiana and Georgia are teams that come to mind that have benefited from elite culture. I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts and thanks for doing what y'all do. Are continuity and culture undervalued in the modern era? No, I think they're overvalued at this point. I think they get thrown about so much that we kind of just, you know, I think in a transfer portal era, like continuity is huge. but I don't think it's that important because Indiana, you could talk about their culture, but was there continuity? All those players came from James Madison. Like it was mostly a new roster and they completely transformed the team around. So I get what he's saying. And I think that culture is important, but I also think culture is often a by-product. Like you never talk about the culture of a two and 10 team. We're always talking about the great culture of the playoff teams or the teams competing for conference titles. It's like, if they're two and 10, there must be something wrong with their culture. It's not that they suck. So I don't know. I would counter it. It certainly probably seems that way a lot more when you're following a service academy because of just the way that those programs are still built and put together compared to the rest of the sport. But I would also counter by saying that Army's culture is a lot better when they have a very good quarterback. So is Navy I think you more quarterback dependent as a service academy than you are anything else I think that you could look at Navy as a Navy fan and believe that player development and continuity gives you a little bit of an edge. I think so. I'll push back on Tom a little bit. And granted, the teams that I picked to go to the national championship game both had a lot of continuity. It just underperformed. But I would also say, like, coaches value it. It's just harder than ever to get it because of the transient notion of the game. But I do think Kirk Cignetti did a good job. And a lot of those players that transferred in from James Madison, it was their second year at the program when they were starting to come together. And then they kind of fit some pieces. And Fernando Mendoza was a huge part of that, as was Pat Coogan from Notre Dame. They added to it, but I do think the culture of that team, like when you talk to guys and was at media days and asked Aiden Fisher about it, and I asked him how many stars he was, he was like zero. I think there's something about that where there weren't a lot of superstars on that team. They were more guys who came together collectively, including Mendoza, who kind of checked their ego at the door and were willing to do whatever it took to win. And I remember I had a conversation with Coach Bowden before he passed away. It was about two months before he died. I was sitting with him, and it was right at the transition of portal and players getting paid. And he was like, I don't know how coaches are going to build a team, build a team when you have so many guys worried about individuals and making money. And I think that's the trick. I mean, and you just have to do it in eight months, some six months with some of the players that are there. So I think it's it's overvalued from the standpoint of it's really hard to get. And just because a team's been together for three or four years doesn't mean they're automatically going to be good. But the coaches that can get that culture and camaraderie quickly, those are the teams that I think are going to be the most successful. I agree with you. I just wonder if we're confusing one word for another. Like we talk about culture. Well, I think culture and continuity are different. I agree. But like Danny mentioned, the continuity of Indiana and having all those returning starters. But all those returning starters went 10-2 the year before and lost every good team they played. And then the new quarterback came in for the first year, won the Heisman, and they won a national title. So that wasn't continuity. That was a brand new player that led you to a national title. i think that more important than continuity is just experience i mean you look at indiana's roster it was a veteran roster you look at miami's roster it was a veteran roster you look at a lot of these teams veteran rosters ohio state had a younger inexperienced quarterback they suffered the prize for it when he didn't you know because he didn't he hadn't really been through a whole lot of hell of a lot of battles because they kind of coasted through most of the regular season So I think more experience is better than continuity. I don't care if you've been here the last three years, but have you been playing for four? I think that's far more valuable. It is as the tailgate has pointed out. The question came in, I think maybe two weeks ago to discuss the words culture in Georgia football in the same sentence. It's a great day for it. Great day for it on the morning where we've got another traffic violation, I believe has come across the desk. I have not, not reached out to the legal sources around Athens to find out the details. Unfortunately, I've become numb to these headlines, but yeah, but that's the retention piece, right? Like that is where Kirby smart believes that if we recruit well out of high school, and if we invest in retaining them, then we will build them up. They will play together. And you know, we will have a team that after spending years in our program, which might be playing with each other, but it also just might be understanding the message from the coaches and what we want to do and how we want to handle business that not having to spend time in the spring retraining, because yeah, I do think culture like a lot of college sports is a year to year proposition because you know who had a great culture with transfers, Texas tech. and Joey McGuire talked about how David Bailey, who just showed up, helped set the standard for that defensive line. And that was just, you've got to find these individuals. You've got to find these fits if you want to be able to do it. I don't, you know, the question was, is culture undervalued? I think culture is more important than ever. It just doesn't necessarily always come in a cookie cutter fashion that when you've got the transient nature of these rosters, you need to have those couple of guys that are experienced or simply have a voice that the whole locker room listens to. I mean, it is ridiculous to assume that Bryce Underwood was the biggest voice in that locker room, right? Highest paid player on the team, but you just showed up. Right. You know, that's where he's got to grow into that role, and I think that that's when we hear coaches talk about the development of the – you talk about the quarterback, the development of the quarterback, like being more vocal, taking on a leadership role. Not everybody leads the same, but I think culture is more important than ever than where we are right now. Getting everybody with alignment, pulling on the rope, all those things I think are huge in a me over we era that is going on throughout all of sports. I mean, Florida State's a great example of a program that has tried to find that culture through the transfer portal. And when they had a Jared Verse and a Braden Fisk and a Jordan Travis, even though Travis was there, but you pull in some of these guys, you get the right culture, it can work. But then they try to go back to it for a couple years. And that's when I think, when you face adversity, that's when you find out what the culture is in the locker room. And unfortunately for Mike Norvell in Florida State, you found out, oh, these guys aren't really going to go out there and fight as soon as they're out of the ACC title hunt or they're out of the mix. Like all of a sudden they start showing up for a paycheck. i think wait go ahead tom would we be better off if we instead of using the word culture we just used identity sure like you're not really building a culture as much as you have an identity for your program and the type of player that fits it so continuity isn't as important as much as it's this is the type of guy we want in here well cult culture i think is also expectations like these So the sets of like a culture is, you're right. Culture is overused and sometimes misused, I would say. But to me, one of the things that comes from culture is like, hey, our culture is that this is the standards and expectations. This is how we handle our business. This is the expectation of the way you're going to behave. If you do not meet that standard or meet those expectations, there's going to be some kind of consequence from it. Like there's going to be some sort of balancing. and where that comes from, that's the decision of a coaching staff and of a locker room. Right? I guess there can be good cultures that work both ways. But I think that Clemson has a great culture. It does. Right. How's that working? Develop and find your own. You got to find the perfect mix. You got to find the perfect blend of talent and buy-in. All of it. I mean, there's a bunch of terms you could use for it and everybody's searching for it which shows you how hard it is to acquire. And also the number of times that the narrative can not connect to the reality within a lot. I mean, it's just, you can think everything's all great and that this is like the most heart warming team ever. You get a little bit closer and a little bit closer. Things are not always what they, what they may seem. Um, one last piece here, since the question did come from a diehard self-proclaimed diehard Navy fan. I do think that where the American athletic conference sits in the food chain of the talent pecking order, Navy might have an advantage against their conference. You mentioned the quarterback. I think that's fair, but I think that Navy's continuity, culture, consistency, whatever you want to call it compared to the rest of that conference, which for the most part just gets rated, you know, but the very best players, that probably allows Navy to be closing the gap a little bit with, you know, other schools where their players might not have had the same recruiting profile as a Navy player, but that's allowed them to close the talent gap there. An excellent observation, excellent theory, but I think we'll have to wait until next year when that quarterback and that Eli, Eli Heidenreich and all those guys, the experienced guys that they had are no longer there. And it's a whole lot of new faces and new places. We'll see if they can, that culture wins out again. I trust our troops. No, you don't. You bet against them constantly. I don't. Comrade Danny over here. I looked at Caden Curry last year as like a little nugget to file away in terms of, you know, we talk about Ohio State all the time. Oh, you just roll out another five-star, roll out another five-star. That's continuity. That's player development. You know, that's experience. somebody that sticks around for a couple years. So in all the plus minuses, the way we look at these teams all the time, I was, okay, Ohio State, not only are they recruiting at the very top of the game, competing for championships, you're right, an inexperienced quarterback probably hurt them in the Big Ten championship and in the college football playoff. But the overall health of the program still has guys that want to stick around, work hard, get better, and then when the light is green, they're ready to go. So it's a good point from Ozzie too. We see a lot of times the staff gets pilfered because you win a championship. That's one of the reasons I think it was huge in Indiana is bringing back their coordinators, you know, and those guys have been with him for a long time. I mean, they go back all the way to Elon, you know, and James Madison. I mean, they've, they've been together for a long time. So again, that kind of goes to whatever term you want to use, continuity, culture, mindset, scheme, all of it being on the same page. I think that helps a ton in the coaching staff too. It's a good point by Ozzie. Congratulations to Bryant Haynes, Broyles award winner for the top assistant in all of college football. Yeah. Mario holds on to Shannon Dawson and Corey Heatherman as well. So both of our national championship competitors, you know, we'll be, we'll be bringing it back. I have a mailbag question from a canal card breakers 13 in the chat. um so did you guys see the report i'm sure you probably did fernando mendoza oh yeah this close to going to georgia he said he actually tried to call kirby smart to commit couldn't get through slept on it at night said god protected me opened up the door to indiana the question does Georgia are they holding up a national championship trophy if Fernando Mendoza was the quarterback and not Gunnar Stockton yes yeah probably I don't I'll say for sure Indiana ain't yeah I mean I just I think that and that is not a knock to Gunnar Stockton or even that whether Gunnar Gunnar Stockton could win a national championship at Georgia I still think Gunnar Stockton could win a national championship at Georgia, but the, I don't, I didn't think Gunner Stockton was at all part of the problem. He played great in some of their big games, even in their loss against Bama. He played pretty well. They had the big drop pass in the second half. Um, I, the defense was the issue. So I don't know if it does change anything. I, I don't think Gunner was ever a problem for Georgia. I don't think he was enough of a difference maker for Georgia. And I think Mendoza could have been a difference maker. So when your defense wasn't playing up to the standard that we've expected from Georgia in recent years, I think Mendoza could have lifted you above that offensively. And I do think Stockton, he is limited as a passer in what he can do. I think the quarterback who had more touchdowns than incompletions in those first rounds of college football playoff competition. Like, I just, I think he's special. I mean, that's the reason why he's going to be the first overall pick in the NFL draft. It's probably going to be starting week one of the NFL season. He got a lot better. Would he have had the same? I don't know. Like, would, would if he, he had the same drive, you know, I mean, like all the stuff we're talking about, how does he fit in that locker room? You know, how does he develop as a passer? I mean, Mike Bobo is taking a lot of heat. How does he work in that system? First thing Fernando does is get a carpool going. Says, boys, we're all going to drive together. We're going to get buddy system going. Four of us in a car. Going to come to practice every day. We're going to drive the speed limit. And I was thinking about it, and I was doing an analysis, and it's all about eliminating the variables. And if too many of our players are getting suspended because of carpools, what I did was I got a 16 passenger van. I got my CDL license and I decided we're driving the offense to school. Okay. I'm going to drive us around everywhere and we're not going to get suspended. Yeah. That's how they win the national championship. You know what Kirby needs to do? He needs to buy all his players, Tesla's because I have a daughter who has a heavy foot. She's already gotten a ticket. We've already had to take it to court. She drives my old Tesla, but you know what I have on it? It has a top speed that you can drive. So you can actually limit how fast she can go Just to get a ball Danny Just send it back He needs to buy them all Tesla and limit the speed I just have governors on them. Just want to say Shannon Terry, if you're out there listening and I know you are, you're a huge fan of the show. Obviously. If you want the college football personality who leads the world in impressions, it's Chip Patterson. All right. Get your facts straight. I don't care about impressions on Twitter. I care about it. Right. that's right number one with a bullet yeah yeah the cdl great comment cdl would be a great thing to add to his linkedin profile so obviously it's something i'm honestly surprised he hasn't gone to get it already uh tom do you have a mailbag question as well no mine was just the uh the identity and culture okay question all right coming up on the other side more questions this time from the cover three tailgate and more Back here on the Cover 3 podcast, a little team specific with this one. Yeah, we like to use these mailbags as an opportunity to bounce around the country, answer some of your questions about your favorite teams. 9 a.m. Eastern time, Jay Mango jumped into the tailgate. We appreciate you getting the conversation started early. said Auburn returns just one offensive starter with Byron Brown's Heisman hype. Is it realistic to expect a portal O-line to hold up in the SEC, or is year one of Alex Golish going to be rough? Is there a lot of Byron Brown Heisman hype outside of Auburn? because this is the first I've heard of it. He's a really good player. He is. I'll say this. He's going to take a pounding. His body is built for it. Like he is a thicker, bigger quarterback, but he's also had injuries that he's had to deal with. Like I am very curious to see how his big body does hold up because he does like to run the football. You know, they do like to run him. I think he could help elevate Auburn, but I'm with you guys as far as the Heisman hype. I would pump the brakes a little bit, but I think that's a massive question. I think Auburn fans think it's a legit question to ask. How does their offensive line stack up? I think that's every coach's concern, especially in the SEC. I think you're definitely worried about that position specifically. Yeah, I would very much prefer to have more continuity on my offensive line, but I will point out the idea of Auburn only having one offensive starter returning might not be the worst thing because the offense sucked last year. Like they had good receivers, but everybody else was pretty meh. So I don't know. I think it's a legit concern. I do think that in the offense that they run, offensive line isn't, you know, they spread you out, they take deep shots, and then the quarterback's mobile and scrambles around. Like you don't have to have an all-SEC first team offensive line for that offense to be successful. Now, it certainly helps, especially in the run game, to be an elite offense with one. I just think that this is still a team that should be improved, but I don't think Auburn is going to be competing at the top of the league unless that offensive line really, really does kind of just hit. And it might. It's just that you never really know when you have like a transfer line like this. Yeah, this is where, fun tack on the end of our experience conversation, Oliver in the tailgate points out that the offensive line projected to be three redshirt seniors and one redshirt junior among those transfers, but yet I've also read a lot of literature and heard a lot of commentary that if your offensive line is built through the transfer portal, it normally does not yield the best results. I don't know. I want to say I can't find it. I was trying to find it. I felt like Alec Golis had a great quote on his offensive. Like he said, it was keeping him up at night. There was some line of money. He was praying for him. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, there was something out there where he's like, he's aware of the issues on the offensive line and hoping it comes together. Yeah, I think that year one could be rough enough that Byron Brown Heisman hype is misplaced. that if we're going to actually talk about Heisman hype, you probably need to be on what that's no fun. Let's say he's the next Cam Newton. Like he's going to carry that team. I mean, he will carry that team. But what, I mean, what are we talking about here? Ultimately, let's see. We're talking about a quarterback. He was 28 and seven last year. hurt 24 26 and 11 back in 2023 he can make plays yeah not not so sure how many do you think that Auburn is if you're to tier them out in the SEC who are their peers in their tier does that make sense like i like uh tom's article we actually discussed it on the radio show about bowl you know teams that can make a bowl you have them in a good category right like yeah like it's coin flippy and you know it's like necessary but it'd be nice or something like that yeah like you want to get off to the good start but it's not necessarily a minimum i don't think because you've got the new coach the pressure's not on but yeah like if they finished five and seven last year so it's not like they were very far away from being a bowl team and my theory was just schedule still difficult because you're still playing in the sec and you are on the road against tennessee georgia ole miss and pama you get home games against florida mandy and lsu but your defense was very good last year it's just your offense stunk so if you can still have a good defense and improve your offense which you should at least points wise it's not hard to think this team can get to seven and five so i would put them in that like you know not competing for an sec title not competing for a playoff spot next year but firmly in that middle tier of the league are they um same as florida is that a peer uh-uh no i think florida's in a little bit better spot i think so too their roster is better i think missouri's roster is better i think florida's roster is better i think that so what tier are they in who's in their tier kentucky i don't know i don't know if their roster is that much worse than missouri's okay i mean if you look at the draft this year there's going to be plenty of Auburn players who go and I think they've been talented the last few years I just don't think they've been well coached and I think they've made some serious tactical decisions at the quarterback position so no I don't think they're that different and then that's not a knock on Mizzou it's mostly that Auburn is talented it's just they haven't been well coached the last few years so you would put them ahead of Kentucky yes would you put them ahead of South Carolina yes I think they're more talented than South Carolina I think South Carolina has the much better quarterback would you put Tennessee ahead of them yeah I think historically you have to look at the last few seasons with Josh Heupel they've been consistently a lot better but if Joey Jaguar doesn't get that extra year that reassesses things will be very interesting because you're to your point Tom they were five and seven a year ago the issue was and the reason why a lot of college football fans brains think of it as being horrible it's because they were 1-7 against SEC competition and 0-6 against ranked opponents. It was just like a team that finished with five wins, but any time that the money was on the table, they were not able to get it done. All right, let's see what else we got here from the tailgate. Ooh, do you all remember this one? Simple question here. This was 10.45 a.m. before we got started. Simple question here. How did the Cover 3 podcast get its name? barton right three dudes cover three what was the specifics of it was there a deeper meeting behind it with barton dudes at the time oh it was two so how did it become cover three the yeah it was barton's number and we liked doing a and he was a safety and so we liked doing a coverage you know like have if if you're looking at all the different you know football ways to use a name. I think there already was a cover two also. Maybe Athlon had it. But cover three was presented in a meeting and I remember that it had a nice ring to it. Danny, were you on the show at the time of the rebrand? Were you coming in to join us every now and then? Tom would. No, I think Danny. I think we, I was full-time before Danny came on. So we were fully covered three at that point. Like when, when you guys first made the transition from it was what I on college football podcast. No, there's a 24, seven sports college football podcast that started 2017. It was you and Barton were the, the permanent hosts. And I was coming on to do locks pods. And then that transition to be doing it full-time. And then Danny came on and then Barton left. because you said, I just can't work with me any longer. He was like most of the listeners that were when I was at it. That was a rough welcome. The cover three faithful. Turns out people don't like change. I mean, there was some conversations like, is this going to work? Maybe we should pull them off. There's a mutiny on our hands. People do not like change. One-star reviews were coming in fast and furious. right in the chat says bud did cover one by himself and he was just talking about byu the entire time that is that is bud to a t that is exactly what bud would do 100 yeah we uh it yes to the answer the question i remember barton latched on to it he liked as a former defensive back that it was a coverage and he likes the number three because it was his number and we'd been sifting through names for a while someone presented some artwork that we liked and we said sure can we please stop these google meets now i mean ultimately whether a name sticks or not depends on how good the show is that was my mentality the whole time name it whatever you want but if the show sucks i mean i guess you could argue that at the fringes but the key to making cover three something that was going to stick was going to be making a good show so how How many of the most consequential decisions in human history have been made just because people were tired of talking about it? A lot. A lot. All right. One last one from the tailgate. One winter Olympic sport that you would want to compete in. Oh. Schemo. You guys seen the new one? It just was out this morning. It looks awesome. So it's like a sprint. you start off and you have to wear you wear a backpack you start off cross country uphill then you go like in and out this little octagon thing where you have to like go through this obstacle course then you take off your skis attach them to your backpack you run up these stairs like stadium steps and then you get off and you put on different skis like you fix your skis so they're downhill skis and then you ski down like the slalom it's awesome and it's like three minutes total. Like, so dude that was going sub six minute miles up the hill. Like I could not do that. Three minutes. I think I could give you something. That thing looks awesome. I think I might do it. I might, I might have to make a run in 2030 and that one schema, schema out nearing is what they call it. It looks awesome. Tom, I would like to do biathlon. So that way I could get really good at shooting. And then after my Olympic career was done, I could just become an assassin for hire make a lot of money and not have to find people you do look born to curl curling sucks like i i don't i understand like when it first came on it was kind of fun and it was a thing but like curling is the most boring sport on earth it gets i tried watching it and i'm just sitting there i'm like well why is why are people watching this it i think that all of america's real problems in the last decade started when we all decided curling was fun i think if we would all just get together have a heart to heart and say you know what guys hurling sucks we need to stop paying so much attention to this i think a lot of i think that would heal our nation i've got the answer it's tom and i doing doubles luge that's exactly how they think who's on top 69 position it's like a skeleton luge like hybrid what i would love to do the luge honestly it would be terrifying but i would love to try it snl had a funny bit a couple weeks ago about a an olympic athlete who hated the sport but her body was perfect for the luge like physically the only thing that matters is your bone density and your weight and the way that it's dispersed and she's like i'm terrified for my life every day she's like every day is a hell for her yes he has to go do something she cannot stand but it's the only thing she can do all right we will be back on monday next week among the topics that we will be getting into include starting to turn our attention to the quarterback position in 2026 on wednesday we will be ranking the top returning quarterbacks. Also at the end of the week, an NFL combine preview to get you set as we say goodbye to some of our favorite stars at the college game. And they begin the process to prepare for the NFL draft. So quarterbacks, NFL combine, and so much more on the agenda for next week. Make sure you're hanging out with us live. We'll be back Monday, 11 a.m. Eastern time. And you can follow him on Twitter at Tom Frunelli. You can follow him at Danny can now you can follow me at chip underscore Patterson gentlemen. Thank you very much. Thank you. See ya.