Psychic's Life

Hi there, I'm K-Town, and on this edition of Mysterious Radio. All right, welcome back and thank you for joining me tonight for another edition of Mysterious Radio. I am your host, K-Town, and tonight my special guest is Michael Bodine, and he has been a psychic to celebrities for many years, and he's written a book called A Psychic's Life, What It's Really Like, and this book is available right now on Amazon. on. Michael was going to share some of his stories and experiences growing up as a psychic, and hopefully I can pry out of him, you know, what or which celebrities he's, you know, he's had readings without doubt if he can actually divulge that, but I'm going to ask him anyway. I want you to also check out Michael's website. It's michaelbodine.com. It's spelled B-O-D-I-N-E. All right, let's bring him out here now is my special guest, Michael Bodine. All right. Tonight, my special guest is Michael Bodine, who is a psychic medium and is here to talk about his book called A Psychic's Life. And that is available on Amazon. I know that's one of two. Am I correct about that, Michael? That's correct. Yep. And what's the name of the other one? The first one is called Growing Up Psychic. Right. OK. And it was supposed to be Growing Up Psychic, Skeptic to from Skeptic to Believer. And there's two books. Another book, another guy, another psychic wrote a book like two years after I wrote my first one and named it the same thing. But his isn't nice. Don't you see that coming? Yeah. um can people still find it though they are yeah yeah yeah it's it's like on amazon stuff like that and it's um yeah it's just it's more you know it wasn't i i didn't it's it's a really easy read it's like run jane run see jane run kind of thing and um it's just about i i work with mostly celebrities you know in the entertainment field and it's not because they're great people or anything it's not because it's a cool job. It's because I'm a, I'm a future kind of a guy. I'm a, um, like I'm not a medium. I'm a, I'm a regular, just your typical psychic kind of guy. And, but a future kind of guy, some, some psychics, you know, find dead bodies or they, they talk to you about your past lives or, um, and then there's mediums, which, you know, they talk to your dead relatives and friends. And I don't really care about your dead relatives and friends. So I don't really talk to I see stuff like, you know, opportunities coming up and like work or, you know, love or whatever. And most of the time, people have opportunities coming in their life, but most of them won't do it. Like they, for whatever reason, like they maybe don't think they deserve it or they don't think they should take it or, you know, whatever. They want to play it safe. but actors or directors or writers, they will take the opportunities because, you know, they gotta, otherwise they're going to die. You know, they just, they live for that kind of stuff. So for what I do, it makes more sense to work with people that are more likely to take the opportunities because like eight out of 10 people that call me for readings, I, I can't do them because you know, I, I know that they're not going to take the opportunities that are coming. And it's kind of it's one of those deals where I can't I can't I can't tell somebody all this great stuff is going to happen when I know it's not because they're not going to do it. So then I look really stupid and it's just it's bad. So most of the time I don't do just people that call just because I know they're not going to do it. But, you know, occasionally I'll get some normal people that are actually going to take advantage of some opportunities. But mostly it's just people in an entertainment field. All right. I got it. Very good. OK, so I have I want to come back to something you just said. So I wrote it down to ask you here in a bit. So, OK, so I'm so glad you wrote it down. Yeah, I did. Because if not, I'll never remember it. I can't remember anything. Hey, I'm in the same boat. I'm serious. I see that. And, you know, and you would think being a psychic, it'd be great because you could I can't find my keys half the time. Yeah, me too. I grew up with a family of psychics, so I can always call like one of my sisters or something. and ask them where the keys are because they're better at that stuff than I am. But I can't, I can't do stuff that, you know, a lot of people ask me, so what did I have for breakfast, you know, and I tell them I'm a psychic or something like that. I have no clue about all that jazz. But, you know, if there's a love coming, I can tell you that. Okay, so I do want to ask you about that too. So before we jump into all my questions I have, can you can you tell my listeners, you know, a little bit about your upbringing and when you you had psychic abilities. I'm not a psychic liking kind of guy, you know, it's not something that I wanted to be. In fact, I think it's like the dumbest job you could ever have. And I didn't, I don't think any of my family members aspired to be psychic or any of that stuff. We just had some weird stuff happen when I was a kid. We grew up in this, like, you know, middle class neighborhood, upper middle class neighborhood that my, my, my dad had this, bought this new house. And, and it was like normal city. It's like, you know, everybody's just played outside. Nobody locked their doors. It was just like a normal place. And, and then when I was like seven, I'm the youngest of four siblings. And my older, my older sibling was upstairs. He was, he was playing um the drums he was like a serious he was 14 and he was you know a serious kind of teenager kind of guy you know trying to learn how to play the drums and um and he was down there tinkering away and he really sucked it sounded terrible and we were used to that but then it sounded kind of good for a little while like for a couple minutes it sounded like it was really tight you know like he was playing tight but and we thought or i thought that he'd put on one of those records how to play the drums by kind of thing because it sounded better and um that lasted maybe three or four minutes. And then, then we heard the cymbals knocking down and the drums being knocked over. And he came flying upstairs. And in my family, my dad was a big guy. You know, he was a big guy. He's like 6'6 and 250. And he was just, he was like a no nonsense kind of guy. And he didn't think that males should show fear. It was just not something you did. And so when my brother came flying upstairs, he looked scared. It was a weird thing. It was like the first time I'd ever seen my brother scared and he, he was really scared and he didn't know what to say and he didn't want to talk about it. But everybody was like, what, what the hell was that? You know, what was going down there? And he didn't want to talk at anyone to talk about it. But finally, my mom got him to explain what had happened. And he said he was downstairs playing the drums and this guy comes through the wall, like a ghost comes through the wall and parks himself in front of the of his drums and he got so scared he just put his head down and starts playing you know and the adrenaline's going he's just like going really fast and and he looks up and he sees this guy looking at him he keeps playing he keeps playing finally he he looks up and he says you know please go please go because i think he thought he was going crazy or or something but but whatever this was kind of acknowledged him and then just went to the other side of the room and outside the wall and uh and that's when he flew down the drumsticks and came flying upstairs and i you know at the time uh when he was saying all this stuff i don't think any of us really believed in that because none of us really believed in ghosts or anything like that but um there was a weird feeling in the air i'm seven and i i knew that there was something going on and nobody really knew how to explain it he wasn't prone to lie about stuff like that i mean he would have just said anything else a burglar came or anything but he didn't he wasn't it wasn't like him to do that so okay so a week later, we're all sitting up there eating dinner again, this time with, with him, because he wouldn't go downstairs without like an armed guard. And, um, and we had this lazy Susan and the salt shaker, the salt shaker, we're all sitting there talking and the salt shaker gets up and moves across the table. And we're, we all stop and we see this thing and it moves across the table and it drops between my mother and my father. And it was the weirdest thing because it wasn't like there was organ music playing in the background or anything like that it was just this this weird thing you're looking at this thing what that and i thought my brother had rigged up some sort of pulley system because we had been giving him so much crap about hey maybe you should invite your ghost friend for dinner he housed casper and all that stuff and but i it was just weird and and so when i dropped my dad got mad he's okay well what the hell stop doing that stuff now come on you know blah blah lot. And, and, and he was like, see, see, I told you there's something wrong. There's something wrong. There's ghosts in this house. And, um, but none of us really even believed him then. It was just like, well, that was weird. How'd you do that? Um, but there was that weird feeling in the air again, that weird sense, like something, somebody was watching, you know? Um, okay. So time went on and, and, you know, you'd walk through the kitchen or something and, and you You hear somebody walking behind you and you turn around, nobody was there or lights were going on and off at different times. And it didn't happen all at once. It didn't happen just to one person. It happened to everybody. It happened to, you know, sometimes when there was a bunch of people or sometimes when there's just one person, sometimes during the day, like you go open up a cupboard and the stuff would slide out in your hands and you think, well, that's weird. But you didn't, you know, you didn't. I mean, I don't think any of us really associated with a ghost because we really didn't want to go there. And, um, but my mom was a stay at home mom. And so she was getting, she was exposed to most of it. Um, and it was kind of freaking her out. And, uh, so she, um, at one point she, um, you know, this had been going on for like six months and she thought, God, I gotta do something. Cause something happened. I don't know. she was, um, she, she, she went in the kitchen and the stove light or the stove turned on by itself. And, and so she turned it off, goes back to doing dishes, turns around and it's back on, you know, something weird like that. So she thought, God, I gotta do something. So she, she went to our minister. Um, and this is, he's a nice, you know, he's young, progressive kind of a guy. And, uh, she thought it was, uh, you know, safe to go and talk to him. So she went and talked to him and he suggested that maybe she was having feminine issues you know like maybe she should uh you know go to a gynecologist or maybe some sort of mood thing or something else so so she went to this gynecologist and um they said no no it sounds like a mental issue so you know they gave her a name of a psychiatrist and that psychiatrist gave her a name of somebody else and somebody else and She ended up going to this lady that worked out of her car, this psychologist lady, really nice lady. She ended up being a big part of our family, but her name was Mrs. Rupp. And she suggested that my mother go talk to – I live in Minneapolis. And she suggested that there was this lady in St. Paul named Mrs. Olson that she should go talk to that would understand what was really going on. And she told my mother this lady was a medium. And, uh, and my mom was raised Catholic, so she wasn't like real excited about, you know, joining and jumping in with a psychic. So she was like, you know, thanks, thanks. And she felt better because, you know, this lady didn't give her a pap smear. So she was, she felt a lot better about the whole thing. And, um, she went home and we were all at school and my mother used to collect Bibles. You know, she liked different covers of different Bibles. And so she, I don't know why she just did. And, and when she came home, um, the Bibles were all sitting on the bed. they were all stacked on the bed and it was weird. It was weird. Cause when she came upstairs and she saw him sit on the bed, it kind of freaked her out. And she wanted to think one of us kids did it, but you know, we didn't even know about it. But, um, but she put the Bibles all the way. And cause when I came home from school that day, she was like yelling at me about playing with her Bibles and, you know, don't do that. And that was all the weird stuff in the house. And I was like, I don't, I didn't play with any Bibles, but she just, she didn't want to have any of it. She told, she yelled at all those kids and, and she made dinner and my dad was out of town. I don't know, I don't know where he was, but okay. So she gets done eating dinner and she goes upstairs to grab something and she screamed and we, we all ran upstairs and, and the Bibles were sitting on the bed again, stacked up and it freaked her out. Oh man. It freaked her out to the point where she thought, okay, I got to do something, you know, cause I really don't think she was going to call this Mrs. Olson just because like I said, she didn't want to deal with it. But, um, after that, you know, I think she thought, well, screw it. They're screwing with the Bibles. I better do something. So she called Mrs. Olson. And of course, Mrs. Olson was very understanding, knew everything about everything. And my older sister, my oldest sister, her name is Echo. She said that she wanted her, my mother and Echo to come for a reading. So they did. They went and they got readings. And Mrs. Olson explained to her and to my sister that we are family, that four of us kids or three of the kids, three out of the four, excuse me, were going to develop our psychic awareness so that we were going to write books about it. And, you know, people are going to know of us for being psychics and told us all this stuff. And I think it wasn't exactly what my mom and sister wanted to hear. I know my sister, my sister was like, you know, she wanted to have a bunch of kids and just be like a knit, you know, my sister's very organized. She irons her socks, for God's sake. So she, you know, this kind of thing wasn't something she was really excited about. But but for my mom, this is like in the middle 60s. And back then, women were kind of going through a change where they were becoming a little more empowered, but not still, you know, they were still a lot of them were stay at homes or whatever. And my mom kind of grabbed onto this thing. She really, she thought it was interesting as hell. And something about it just connected with her. And so she started researching it and she started learning as much as she could. And back then, you know, there wasn't a whole lot of psychics. In fact, it was considered like a mental illness back then, which I still think it should be. But back then it was really, you didn't talk about it. And, um, and so she had to kind of do a lot of digging and, uh, and she found this place, uh, in Minneapolis where they, they had like a church. Well, it wasn't really a church. It was in a basement of a church. And it was this, where this lady, her name was Birdie. She ran this place and it was all a bunch. It was a place where a bunch of people that had different experiences would go and they would, they would talk about these things. And, you know, they came from all different walks of life and they were all different kinds of people. And my mom showed up at this place and they all loved her. My mom was great. My mom was just, she was great. And so she started to connect with those people and they connected with her. And then eventually they started coming to our house because our house, you know, had food and it was nice. And so I was raised from seven on up, you know, until I left the house with psychics or people that were trying to learn about psychic stuff in the house all the time. There was a ton of people just started gravitating towards this, our house because we were learning about it. And so my mom really got into it. And that lasted for a while. my mother, my father hated it. My father just hated it. In fact, at one point, like a few years after all this stuff, um, uh, they were sitting there playing chess. My mother, my father, my father loved to play chess And uh one of the chess pieces got up and moved and dropped And and my dad said ah screw it I done And he moved out And when he moved out my mother had people move in And it was just nuts It was just nuts. But the first time I remember any psychic stuff was when all this stuff was happening. But I remember being younger and I was like five. When I look at people when I was a kid, I'd see colors around them. And I just thought everybody could see that. I thought everybody knew that everybody had colors around them. And it turns out that was what they call auras. And I just thought it was normal. And one day I heard an ambulance go by on the highway a distance a ways. And I knew my mother and my sister ran it. I knew it. I was five and I just, I absolutely knew it. And sure enough, my sister had fallen off a horse and they had to take her to the hospital. But that was the earliest I remember anything psychic. But at that time, I didn't think it was psychic. I just thought it was normal. It was normal to think, to know that. It wasn't until all these psychies started hanging out. Because, you know, I'd come home from school and they would want to talk to me. They'd want to give readings. They'd want to practice on me. Or they'd be doing different things, cards or tea leaves or, you know, some of them were doing. And there's all sorts of different disciplines as far as psychic stuff. Some people are channelers where they let spirit come through them. And then they change their face and they distort. That's a weird thing to watch a real channeler. The information isn't all that great, but it's really interesting to watch their faces change. Some of them, like mediums, like I was saying, would just talk to your dead friends and relatives. And some people, they were trying all sorts of different things, but it was a learning thing. And so I didn't know what I was experiencing since I was a kid that it was psychic. I just, like I said, I just thought it was normal. But as more and more psyche started showing up, more and more activity in the house was happening. It was like, you know, not only people were there, but more ghosts were showing up. And, you know, I'd come home from school and my friends would see ghosts sitting in the chair. And, you know, it got to be kind of an embarrassing thing growing up like that. But I couldn't leave. I was. Well, I'm going to ask you this. That is very interesting that all this was going on with you as a child. But when when you're actually you're the first I wanted to say, first of all, you're the first true or only psychic that I've ever interviewed. Everybody else has, you know, had the mediumship along with that. So now are you when you're doing a reading for someone, are you looking at at that person's fate or an event that you know is going to happen no matter what or is that something that can change yeah oh my god things shift all the time like um you know you got that whole free willy thing going and um you can create whatever you want it's just that there's like okay say um say i'm talking to somebody and they'll when i say they so okay Now, this is going to get a little woo-woo, but I'm so used to it. There's a theory that people have like spirit guides around, you know, guardian angels, if you will, or whatever. They're not like your friends or relatives that have passed. They're different. They're more evolved. They're more – they're just cool, man. They're really loving. They're really understanding. They don't want to scare you. They're not going to do things like turn on lights or this or that. These are more advanced. and everybody seems to have those around them. And so I try and tap into those guys and find out, okay, so what's going on? And sometimes they talk and sometimes they don't. You know, sometimes, you know, somebody will come for a reading and they won't say anything to me. You know, they'll just like, nope, not saying it. Which sucks because, you know, you can't relate to anybody unless they say something. But sometimes, you know, a lot of times they will. And they'll tell you, they'll give you some information about the person that you're giving a reading to, for one thing. They'll give you a little bit, a breakdown of who they are and where they've been and what struggles they've been having or what they're working with or what, you know, just general stuff. And so you get a feel for who they are. And then they'll show you, it's kind of like watching a movie. It's like this, you see all this stuff unfold. Like if they're in a relationship, you can see that if that person that they're involved with really likes them or doesn't like them or is struggling with things or if they have somebody else on the side Or, you know, they'll show you all that sort of stuff and how, what their lessons of here, what they're here to learn. Because from my understanding, the real reason for being here is to learn, to learn lessons. And it doesn't matter whatever the lesson is. It could be as simple as learning how to deal with racism or hatred or anger or whatever. or it could be more deeper, like how to deal with your healing abilities or your, the powers that you have. It could be a variety of different things, but we're all here to learn and that nobody is better or worse than the other person. They're just degrees of learning that we're all just, you know, some people, and you can tell that some people have been around longer and they just seem to have an understanding of things. And then there's, you know, there's a difference between Archie Bunker and Martin Luther King. There's just, there's two different thinkings, you know, and two different, um, advancements you might say. And, but everybody's here to learn, even the people that are, um, wonderful, even these, you know, Gandhi, you know, to beat his wife, you know, I mean, we're all here to learn. And, um, so when I do readings for people, when I get stuff in a lot of psychics do that too, is that they'll get what they're here to learn, what they're here to learn short term, what they hear learn long term what lessons are coming into their life to help them with that um you know people talk about being rich or famous or whatever like that being like a really cool thing or having this but money is a real tough one you know because it does change people um fame is really tough because it does change people it's not those are not really fun things to do um just overcoming certain fears and this and that and they'll just they'll just point those things out. But in, uh, to your question, it, um, people can alter where they go by accepting some of the things that they have to learn. Like if you're more open to, um, to some of the things that you're learning, you're going to advance through those things quicker. And then you can go to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. And, um, so it really depends on the person. And some people are stubborn as hell. They just, you know, they're just, they're thick as bricks, they won't get it. You know, they'll get, they'll keep getting hit over the head with the same thing and they still don't get it. You know, they just go, what the hell? Why is my life so sucky? But they don't, they don't change it. You know, they don't make those steps to change it. And fortunately their guides are so sweet and you know, they're not, they're not there to judge them. They're not there to hurt them or anything, but they understand they're very patient, but they do things to try and get our attention so that we will make the changes that we're supposed to make because I guess from what I understand, uh, the whole purpose is to become more, I guess, God-like to be more advanced, to become more understanding, loving, um, you know, all that kind of stuff. And, um, so yeah, you are definitely in control of that pace. Um, and sometimes, like I said, sometimes people just don't want to make the changes that they're supposed to make. And so they stay in that same spot and they say, I don't know, you know, I'm, I'm not a big, um, I believe in reincarnation, I guess, but I don't, I don't, I don't know how to prove it. Um, other than sometimes I'll do readings for people that I know have been here before, because, you know, certain things are places and people are familiar to them from their past lives and stuff. But, um, you mentioned, you mentioned their spirit guides. Uh, if, if their spirit guide doesn't want to communicate with you can you continue to do the reading or or no no i well i'll try and tackle if they don't want to talk um i'll try and tap into my little guides and just to give me some information but you know not everybody is supposed to get a reading and um which sucks because you know being a psychic is not a very lucrative job i'm gonna tell you but um but sometimes when people come they're just no they don't they're not supposed to get a reading. So I can't, and that's happened to me before where I, where people have come and I just, they won't say anything to me or maybe, maybe I'm the wrong psychic. Um, I, I believe in, um, sharing psychics, you know, cause I have a certain way of presenting things. I'm a little more, uh, blunt, a little more gruff, maybe not as nurturing as I probably could be. And there's other psychics that are so nurturing and so loving that, you know, maybe, maybe they were supposed to get the information from them because they're better at it at better explaining things or who knows. But, um, yeah, you know, sometimes that happens. Um, sometimes they just don't want to talk to you because maybe, maybe the person's getting it on their own and they don't need somebody else to tell them because they, they've worked so hard when I say they, I mean, their spirit guides have worked so hard at getting them to trust themselves that they don't want somebody else to come in and tell them because they want them to trust themselves um that happens um in fact my second book of the was a psychic's life it was supposed to be called seven reasons why not to get a reading just because because i really believe that if people trusted themselves they they wouldn't need a psychic but the publisher didn't want to do it it's kind of counterproductive I guess so. But but the point of it is or was that people have access to their own guides. They have access to their own spirit people so they can get the information if they want from themselves from for themselves for themselves. OK, so I hate to interrupt you here, Michael, but are you getting your information from your third eye? Well, that's a good question. You know, the third eye, I would I would imagine. I do a lot of stuff on the phone. It's easier that way. So that way I don't have to see the person. I don't. So sometimes when you do a reading, they get very emotional and you have to stop, you know. But if you're on the phone, you can just keep going. And the only way you can get that information when you're on the phone is just you see. Yeah, I guess it's like a third eye. Yeah, it is literally like you see things. You literally see people and, and doors opening. And yeah, it's like a third eye thing. It's the weirdest thing. Because it's, it's so, it's like, it's a natural thing. It's like, for me, I've never really had to work that hard at it. Some people have had to work harder at it. Like my sisters, they trained a little bit more, they were a little more disciplined with it. I, um, I hated all this psychic stuff. So I purposely try to not do all those. There's exercises that you do, uh, to learn how to develop it. There's different techniques that you learn how to, um, how to trust your, your instincts, how to trust your third eye, how to open up your third eye and all that kind of stuff. And I hated that stuff. I just, I hated it. But, um, the, the process of when i do it it's just like boom it just opens up sometimes it's like talking to somebody sometimes they're they're like showing me these pictures um and it's always on it's just it's always on like you know i go to the store and i bump into somebody like i ran into this kid yesterday at the store i turned the corner he turned the corner we ran into each other all of a sudden i got all this information about this kid about how he was going to do this football scholarship he was going to do really well and then he was going to hurt this left knee and it was going to alter his life because he had all his work all his self-image connected to the whole athletic thing and it was going to change things and it was but he was here to learn and it was like it took like two seconds but um they just downloaded all this stuff to me and i can't say anything to him i can't say hey i gotta tell you some stuff it's just they just randomly sometimes do that with people and um that's what you call um some psychics you know they do it on television is you know they come up to you and they start giving your readings that's called an ambush reading and you're not that's you're not supposed to do that it's um you're not supposed to do that um because it's it's it it sets the person it makes them it freaks people out and it's it makes people uncomfortable and i some people like it but it's you're just not supposed to do that. And, um, but you know, you still get, I still get information about people all the time. It's just, you know, walking down the street. Wow. That's, that's pretty neat though. I mean, do you just have to be near them or looking at them or get eye contact? Yeah. It's just, sometimes they're, um, they're just, they're louder than other times. Like most of the time, I just like to live in denial. You know, I just shut down. I don't like to think too much because I'm not a big fan of reality. And so I just, I just kind of put on my little head, shut everything off and just go about my day. But sometimes it's really loud with some people. I mean, sometimes I just walk and I'll see somebody and they got this, you know, light around them and you just know that person's going to do some really cool stuff. And I want to say something to them, but you know, it's, it's a little awkward, but. So, so what do you mean a lie? I mean, you're talking about their or, right? yeah have you ever saw somebody or just kind of rubbed up against them or not rubbed up against them but um well you just you knew that there was something different about that person there was something really interesting and that you knew that they were going to have a big impact or they could if they wanted to on people um sometimes that's louder than others but um and then sometimes people think of themselves as having that um but they they're actually the opposite they're just you know that's the problem i have sometimes with some of the people i deal with in hollywood is that their image is great but their insides is like you know a cave you can you can drive a truck in there there's nothing in there and when i first started doing um people in the entertainment field it was it was exciting the first um god um i always forget this guy's name i was i was a kid i was working i was doing readings downtown minneapolis um and this uh i was like 21 or 20 and um and i was um some guy i was i was talking to some guy and he had a friend um god all that jazz what's his name um um he's a choreographer um anyway um he wanted me to talk to this guy he was he was in new york so he hands me the phone and i started talking to this guy and the whole energy about him was was bob fossey that's what it was um his whole energy was completely different than anybody i had talked to do. And it was really intoxicating because this guy was just, he had this, you know, he had this, um, power. He lived in this whole kind of different world. And it was really, I loved it. I loved it. And this guy was an interesting guy. We only talked for like five minutes the first time. And then we talked more after that, but, um, I was attracted to that. I love that. I love that energy, that sense of, um, uh, opportunity of possibility of making things happen, even if you didn't think you could. I mean, just, it just, it felt really cool. And a lot of times when I do celebs, they have all that, but then when you get into their character, there's just, it's disappointing. And, and some of the people that I grew up watching on television or movies I've done and, and it's been really disappointing because they're not at all what I thought. And you know occasionally I do some people that are just the opposite They just amazing people and they just happen to work in the industry But overall it can be a little disappointing to do people in the public eye because like I say they here to learn too And I think that they're here to learn how to be a better person because they're really not. And when you're famous like that, sometimes it's more difficult to get in touch with yourselves because you're so enthralled with the whole being famous thing and being idolized and all that kind of stuff well can you tell us about some of the celebrities that you've read for that's a tough thing because the reason why celebrities talk to me is because i don't um i don't tell people who they are um but you can anybody that you've seen i've done pretty much okay it's not it's not because i'm a great psychic believe me it's not it's it's because they all have psychics and there's always a flavor of the month out there. And so they all like to share their different psychics. And, um, sometimes I'll work with them for a little bit. I don't know who from, oh man, I can't. Yeah. It's, it's okay. You don't have to, I don't want to put you on the spot. But anybody you can imagine. Okay. Yeah. Anybody you can imagine. So let's, let me ask you about this. And I think I read it in your book. You do investigate haunted houses, don't you? I'm a ghostbuster. Yeah. Stupid job. So tell us about that. Do you, are you, or is, is someone contacting you and saying, okay, I think I have a spirit in my house. Can you come tell me who it is and remove it? I mean, what, what are you doing for them exactly? Okay. So ghostbusting and I do a lot of exorcism too, which is the same thing as ghostbusting, except the person's got the ghost inside them as opposed to the house. Um, okay. So ghostbusting, I, you know, I got into that because I was scared to death of ghosts. I hate they scared the crap out of me. They just did. I mean, coming home from school and they'd be hanging out over the place or I'd be in my room by myself and, you know, they come through. I hated it. I just hated it. And so Bertie suggested that I needed to learn how to overcome my fear of ghosts, which I thought was ridiculous because I thought it was a healthy thing to have. But they felt or my mother and her felt that I should get over it. So they, I would go to different haunted houses and their thinking was, was that I would just get used to it and then I would overcome my fear. It didn't actually work. It actually had the opposite effect. I got more afraid. but there was a point when I was probably 12 or 13 where if I came home and nobody was home I wouldn't go in the house I just wouldn't because I knew the place was lousy with ghosts so I'd sit outside in this little cul-de-sac and wait for somebody to get home and Minnesota is freaking cold so I'd freeze my butt out sometimes just sitting there waiting for somebody to get home but I would I would be damned if I'd be going into that house without somebody with me finally one night it was like it was like a november it was cold and i was i was waiting for my mom or somebody to get home and i could see all these ghosts you know in the window and and i was like i just didn't want but i was getting mad because i was freezing and i was getting impatient and i just wanted to just i wanted to have a normal life and and anyway i got the i got the gumption up to just maybe just go to the door maybe just go to the door and maybe I could talk myself into doing it after that. So I get myself up and I go, I'm walking in the, getting close to the door and I can see these people because there's a, we have a big kitchen window and I can see these people, things walking by. There's white lights and it's not just all ghosts. Sometimes it's these little sparkly lights. Sometimes it's just little flashing lights. Sometimes it's just shadows. You know, you see these little shadows, but whatever the place had a whole ton of them. And I go to the front door and the door opened up by itself. And I thought, Oh man, you know, I, I got, I got really scared, but I, but I was also so tired of sitting there and freezing all the time that I thought, screw it. I gotta, you know, I gotta, I gotta figure this thing out. So I, I walk in and I didn't even shut the door. They shut the door. And when they, when they slammed the door, I turned on the lights right away and, and I, but I could still see little things. But when they slammed the door, something happened to me. I got really mad. I didn't, I didn't get, uh, I didn't get scared. I got, I thought, I just got really mad. And as I started to get more angry, as opposed to afraid, it became more manageable for me. I just said, screw it. I'm not doing this. And I'm not being afraid of this stuff anymore. Cause really nothing happened to me. It wasn't like they were, you know, turning me inside out or anything like that. It was just that they were intimidating me at the, what they might do to me or what they could do to me. And really, they weren't going to do anything because I wasn't going to allow them to do anything to me. So from that point on, I think when I was 12 or 13, I stopped being afraid of ghosts. And and and I became more effective as sort of a ghostbuster because there was always people asking us about ghosts back then, because there wasn't a whole lot of places to go to for people that had ghosts or issues. And a lot of times people were they wouldn't call us unless they were ready to move or sometimes they actually had moved. they were so freaked out. They didn't, you know, they didn't, they didn't want anybody to know they didn't want their neighbors to know or anything like that. So they would contact us. We were, we kind of started getting a name for ourselves long, long time ago, but just because we were in the process of learning how to deal with ghosts, we would go to all these different places and people would talk and blah, blah, blah. And it, so my mother was known for doing this kind of stuff. And so I started learning how to deal with them. back then. And really, there's just three things to a ghost busting. There's the first part, which is the story. And that's when you come in, and the person or the people that are living there, they have a story, everybody has a story about how they got there, what's been going on, what's been happening, what they're afraid of, all that kind of stuff. The story, for me, is my least favorite part, because it's boring as hell. And you have to act like you know it like you have to act like it's really scary even though you've heard it a thousand times the stuff um and and the people need your sympathy because this is really the first time that they're able to talk to anybody about this stuff that won't think they're crazy and so you got to listen you know you got to have that patience and stuff and i don't i have really little patience but okay so you get the story the second part is where you go through the house and you find out for yourself what's there and you can just i usually do it in the dark it's easier for me to do in the dark because it's easier to see things feel things get a get a sense of where the spirits are where they're the biggest problems are and blah blah blah the third thing which is my favorite part of ghost posting if there is a favorite part is to actually get rid of the ghosts and that's where you it becomes almost like a counseling session where you talk to the spirit you find out why they're there you find out what's keeping them there uh what issues what's going on blah blah and then you get rid of them and you get rid of them in a couple different ways you can either force them out which is one way which is not a very responsible thing or you you help them cross over like they say they're they say that spirits or ghosts or whatever are what they call earthbound people that haven't gone to the other side people that haven't gone to the light for whatever reason. Sometimes they're afraid. Sometimes they don't know they're dead. Sometimes they're just, they're lost and they're just, or they're attracted to something here that they can't let go of. So they become kind of earthbound. And those are the ones that usually are haunting someplace. And you just have to find out what's going on. And in the beginning is when the ghosts or ghosts will show how much strength they have. in the beginning is when they'll turn on the lights or make noise, drop things, throw things, pinch, you know, pull that kind of stuff. That's, that's when they'll usually do it. But as you get into it more, you, you're just confronting them. You're just like, Hey, dude, you know, you can't be here. You're dead. And what's keeping you in. And then sometimes you actually have people from the other side, their relatives or friends, help them cross over. You know, you have them come and get them and take them across. And, and then you, then the spirit crosses, say in a perfect example of the spirit crosses. And, and then you take some sage or what I get, this stuff that's blessed from Native Americans. And, and you, you clean out the house after you've cleaned out the ghost. And it kind of lifts up the, the lifts up the heaviness of the house and gets rid of all that, that kind of sorrow or depression or whatever was left by the ghost of fear. And then, and then you have the person, the people that were living in the house go through the house with you after you're done so you can see and so they can see that there's a difference and that's it um i'm going to ask you something about sage can sage itself uh remove a spirit without the help of a psychic medium no no they'll sneeze i mean you'll get a ghost that'll sneeze from time to time but it's not going to do it no it's just going to irritate the ghost i guess depends on the sage but um Some sage has more power to it, I guess, than others. But even – it's not like an Ajax where it just cleans everything out. It just – it lifts some of the heaviness that the spirit has. It's like if you have a pig pen that has a ghost. It kind of cleans up some of the dust. But you can't get rid of the ghost by just burning sage. A lot of times people just think that they can just do that. But it doesn't – you actually have to confront the ghost, get them to understand that they can't be there. you have to deal with the actual entity and um and then once they're gone then you can then it's then there's a big difference but you can you know people use sage to put protection around themselves which you can but see they they don't understand that that the ghost or whatever is there isn't going to hurt them unless you give them permission unless you say it's okay to to be involved. This is going to sound strange, but I've done a lot of ghostbusters where the people in the house have become physically attached to the spirit for a couple different reasons. Sometimes with women, a spirit will come and it's very nice and nurturing and they're feeling a little lonely and the spirit will kind of be through time, get to know them a little bit more, and then they become more attached, and then they start to fantasize, and it becomes more of a physical thing, and so, and then when there's a problem is, is when that person, when that female starts to be with somebody else, you know, when they start dating somebody with skin, and then the ghost, or whatever it is, gets pissed, and then it's a problem, because that person's connected to that, um but and that's happened with it happens it happens mostly with females but it does happen with males too um they get attached to it yeah it's weird it's weird the first time i ever saw that was um we go to this place this landlord had called us and um because their tenant was being very um odd a lot of noises were coming from the place and and every time the landlord with daughter checkup on the place to see if it was okay. This guy was always acting really weird, really uncomfortable, really uneasy. We didn't want the landlord to come in. And at one point had said something about to the landlord that, you know, you can't come in because you'll upset Lisa. And this little landlord said, hey, you know, I didn't know you didn't have Lisa on the lease. And he said, no, Lisa's a spirit. You can't come in because of Lisa. So this landlord called us, my sister and I, to come in and deal with, to find out what was going on. And this guy was a big guy. He was like six, four, you know, he's a big strap and buck kind of guy. Nice guy. Really, but really quiet, you know, really shy. And, and he didn't want to let us in, but she was like, the landlord was pretty aggressive about, look, if you don't let these guys come in, you know, we're going to blah, blah, blah. She threatened, whatever. So he would neglect it. Reluctantly, I should say, allowed us to come in. So we go in there and um he didn't want to talk about it you know he was really quiet and i'm like you know i didn't have the patience i still don't but i was like dude i you know if you don't want us to be here we don't have to be here if you don't if you don't have a ghost it's no big deal with me uh let's just go um but as as as we were talking i i just i asked him so who is this lisa person and he got really freaked out he said look don't mention her name don't mention if she comes she'll get really mad. And I thought, you know, I thought for a second that maybe this guy just had a mental illness, you know, and that happens. People, people get a little loopy and they, they make up some stuff and, um, but he seemed pretty normal, but, um, okay. So anyway, uh, I, I started kind of going down that road a little bit more about Lisa. Like, well, what would Lisa do if, if Lisa knew, I kept mentioning her name and every time we did, he kept getting more and more uncomfortable. And I didn't really believe, because up to that point, I had never seen a relationship with a male spirit. I'd seen it with females, but I'd never seen it with a male. And he got up and he went into the kitchen and he says, look, we can't talk about her, okay? Because she'll get really upset. And when she gets upset, she gets violent. And I just can't handle it. I can't handle it. The backstory on him was he had moved from a small town into this, this was in Minneapolis, into this bigger town and he on a job and um he didn't know anybody and he was kind of lonely he'd been there for about a year and he really didn't you know he really didn't reach out to a lot of different people so he was he just would come home and and this woman the spirit uh showed up and and they became he didn't really believe in ghosts he just thought it was this kind of his imagination at first but they became really good friends like he said that they would talk about things and he could talk to her about stuff and she was very sweet. And then at one time, um, when he was sleeping, he could feel her next to her, next to him. And it felt really nice. And, and, um, and it started making him think like, ah, maybe, maybe I want to date somebody, you know, maybe, maybe somebody, maybe I think I'd like to do that. And then when he did, uh, she got really mad and, and she, he said that he, uh, she physically abused him. and so when he was telling me that i was thinking come on dude you know first of all you're like hitting him or like hitting him like hitting him right so i had a hard time with that um my sister echo was eating everything up she's like oh wow that's terrible this is just awful my sister will believe anything from anybody but i'm a little more skeptical of them so so i was like come on dude and i go into the kitchen i said come on really what's going on And he goes, she's here and she's really mad. And I didn't see anybody. And that's the thing. I usually see things. It's pretty easy for me to see. And I didn't see anything. And I turn around and I can see he's up against the refrigerator. He's sitting on his tippy toes. And I thought, oh, great. A performance artist. You know, I thought he was just doing this whole acting performance thing. And then he goes like slap, like somebody slapped him like one side to the other. And I thought, oh, come on, dude, seriously. He goes, tell her to stop. Tell her to stop. And I'm like, tell who to stop. I don't see anybody. And then he goes, ow, and he grabs his chest. And I said, dude, what is going on? And I look at him and I can slowly see handprints on his face, like somebody had just slapped him. You can see these fingerprints on his face. and I, I, he moves his hand and there's claw marks on his chest. And I thought, holy, I mean, wow. That's the first time I was, I was aware of a guy being abused like that. Um, so then I took it seriously. Then I was like, okay, we gotta, we gotta deal with this thing. And, um, what it was, was that this Lisa person that had had a relationship with this guy and was very comfortable with it and didn't want to, didn't want to have anything to do with us. And what we had to do was we had to have this guy be a part of getting rid of her He had to break up with her basically I know it sounds ridiculous and it was but it was really interesting at the same time Because this guy you could see the marks on his face It was the strangest thing. But, okay, so we had to spend a lot of time at that place because it was really just about helping them kind of break up. And then once they broke up, then we could get rid of her. and then it was okay. But that was the first time I ever saw anything like that. That's the wildest story. Yeah, it was nuts. And the landlord was just freaked out. I think the landlord just thought this guy was crazy and just wanted him out. But then when she saw this, she was like, holy crap. So he said he was physically feeling her up on him in the bed or whatever. He felt that they were being intimate. And not just once. And he said that he had been having an intimate relationship with her for months. Yeah. And, you know, without getting too graphic, that's what he's claiming. And at the time, I was like having a hard time with it because I couldn't figure out the logistics of it all. But then when I saw his face and I saw his chest, I thought, man, you know, whatever, however you guys were doing it, that you obviously had an effect on this thing. And, you know, we got to stop it. so have you that's weird and and crazy i've heard instances where people you know have had some type of sexual contact you know with the spirit i think it's easier for women just because of the whole logistics thing you know i think sometimes they think that they're dreaming or they're half asleep or whatever i just it was hard for me to get around the whole male thing but um yeah no that And that happens a lot more than you think. Have you come in contact with an evil spirit or what you would consider an evil spirit? Well, you know, people talk about demons all the time. I don't really. There's some really dark spirits out there, but they're there. They're like. OK, again, this is going to sound like there's a there's a dark force and there's a positive force. And I think some of these dark spirits are just, you know, they, they died, they lived dark and they died dark and they are, they're just dark. And because they're dead, it gives it more of a, a spooky kind of eerie heaviness to them. Yeah. And we've done, you know, a lot of places, you know, where they're killing cats and they're, they're throwing stuff and the walls are bleeding, you know, stuff like that, where it's just, it's bad. but it's also, um, in some ways it's like a cry for help, you know, it's like, um, yeah, yeah. What the answer to your question is. Yeah. Yeah. You don't, in fact, most of the things that we deal with are dark and there's just different degrees of dark. Some of them are really, really dark. And, um, and you just, you know, you have to kind of get, you have to clean them out. Is, and so that is something you deal with as well. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, nowadays, I don't, you know, there's, you can, you can't spit without hitting a psychic and you can't spit without hitting some sort of ghostbuster or somebody that's learned how to do that kind of stuff, which is great. And it's also bad. It's, it's, it's great because there's more people available, but it's also bad because it's, there's more incidents of this kind of stuff because people are talking about it more and there's more awareness of it all. um and so there's i don't i don't do jobs anymore where they're just you know kind of bumps in the night or or the the cream cheese is floating or lights are going on enough i only do jobs where people have had trouble and they couldn't get rid of them so they call me and um just to just because i'm i'm used to that kind of stuff now um where the where it's gotten where maybe somebody went in to do a ghost busting and they screwed it up and they only made it worse so i just kind of go in and clean it up a little bit um and so most of the jobs that i do are pretty are based that that dark that heavy stuff yeah um i can't it's not that i don't well i just can't i have no patience for that other stuff it's there's just you know it's boring as hell i gotta tell you well you're telling the truth so that's all we can have for well it is so and plus you know yeah go ahead go ahead well you know you want to be sympathetic to these people because these people have never seen a ghost and so when they come in and say and then the lights turn down and off and you're supposed to act incredulous like what i've never seen that you know and i can't i can't i i just you know i i just want to go in and get the job done and then leave and um and so the places that I go to, the people are so exasperated. They don't care. They just want it out. So that's why it works better for me. But there's a lot of them out there. Yes, there is. Yes. Plenty of them. And some of them suck. Yeah, you're right. You are exactly right. There's a part in your book that I feel like is important that you explain to people if they decide to reach out to a psychic. And And the part of your book that I'm talking about says how to get the most out of it or out of your reading. Can you explain that to us? Yeah. You know, readings are, you know, people come up to you and they go, OK, so you're psychic. So tell me about my life. And that's like walking into a restaurant. OK, just give me what you got. You got to be a little more specific about what you want. Like, OK, so if you're talking about a person's life, that's a whole that's a big thing. you know, what area do you want to talk about your, your health? Do you want to talk about your relationships? You want to talk about your job? You want to talk, what do you want to talk about? What areas do you want to get out of it? And so when you're going to a psychic, try to be a little, I know you want to test the psychic and to see if they really are psychic. And, and I don't blame you for that, but if you want to get stuff out of it, have clear direction in which to go. And you don't have to keep the psychic a lot of information. In fact, the more information you give them, the more difficult it is for a psychic because then they base their own opinions and it gets in the way. But if you have some specific questions about things, that's really helpful. And again, people have their own intuition about things. And sometimes I'm – sometimes I suck. And so if I'm doing a reading for somebody, it has to make sense. And unless it makes sense, like I can't charge somebody if I suck. But that has happened where I've done readings for people and it didn't make sense at all. and it was probably for a bunch of reasons, maybe because I wasn't supposed to do them and I did it anyway, or maybe they were supposed to trust themselves or who knows. But, but if it doesn't feel right when you're getting a reading, don't be afraid to say something to the psychic. I, you know, I've, I would, I've gotten so many readings because of growing up with psychics and some of them were just bad. They just, they didn't know what the hell they're doing. That it's painful to sit and listen to these people talk about something that has nothing to do with you, um, it's helpful when you tell the psychic, well, no, that doesn't sound the right way. Cause then, then they can, they can be better. You know, you want to always be better as a, as a psychic. You know, I, I've been doing, I've been doing it for 45 years and I still get nervous whenever I do a reading for people. Cause you know, I don't want to, I don't want to sound, I don't want to make a fool out of myself. And, um, and it's helpful when you're getting a reading, giving a reading and the person needs specific things and trust you know trust it trust the information if if it doesn't feel right then it's not right don't try to stick around home a square peg you know sometimes people just assume that whatever the psychic is saying is true even though it's a big arc you know it's got to make sense right totally totally agree and psychics are wrong psychics are really wrong We really are. And and again, for a variety of different reasons, but it gets down to trusting yourself. That's that's really important because, man, there's what would you say your accuracy is? What percentage? We will not pass judge. OK, so there's a there's so many rules in this stupid job. One of them is lack of you can't promote yourself like, OK, for instance, you can't go. up to somebody and say, Hey, it looks like something's happening so that they, they will want to know more. So then you can give them, you can't do that. You can't bait somebody into doing something. You can't say, um, how great of a psychic you are because then they'll be curious and they'll want to get information. Um, so that's a tough answer. It's a tough question to answer because I don't, um, let's put it this way. Sometimes I can be really accurate and it can, it can surprise me. And sometimes I can get absolutely, well, no, I've been lucky for a while, but, um, here's my problem with that question. When I was a kid, when I was about 24, I was this hot dog psychic. I mean, I was doing people left and right. I was booked up for like a year. I thought I was just a God and I was on magazine covers. And, you know, back then there wasn't a whole lot of psychics. And, you know, I was just, I thought I was just, I thought I was the bomb and I was doing a radio show and, um, and you know, some guy at the radio show asked me if I would give him a reading. I was like, yeah, of course, sure. Whatever. And cause I just thought, you know, really, I thought I was it. And, um, so he starts asking me questions and he says, Hey, okay. So I want to know about my, my job. What do you think about my job? And I said, boy, it doesn't look good, man. It looks like they're having trouble with what's your performance and that they're going to be talking to you about this and blah, blah, blah. And he says, well, I actually just got employee of the year. In fact, I got a raise. Okay, well, how about my kids? And I says, well, you're okay. I see I'm getting sons here, and they seem to be okay. Well, this one's struggling and blah, blah, blah. Well, he interrupts me. He goes, well, okay, no, I don't have any sons. I do have daughters, and everything I said to this guy on air was completely the opposite. It was wrong. Everything was so wrong. It was wronger than wrong. And the weird thing about it was it was the same voice that I'd always gotten from everything else. It was the same pictures that I'd gotten from everything else. And I looked at him like, come on, you're lying. You're setting me up here. Come on, this isn't right. But he felt really bad. And after like 15 minutes of me saying everything wrong, he hands me a $20 bill and goes, you're going to need this. And he was right. I absolutely, I've never, I've never been that bad in my life. And so I lost it. I didn't have, I didn't have an ounce of psychic ability with me for like a year. And that's the whole point of it was that it was taken from me because I thought it was all about me and not about what it's about the message. It's not about the psychic. And we, a lot of times psychics forget that a lot of times we get a little, there's a lot of diva psychics these days and they forget that it's not about you. It's just, you're the messenger. And some messengers have different ways of presenting things, but it's up to them what information they want to give you. And so ever since that day, I've been scared to death of even answering a question like you just asked me, because I don't, you know, I've been lucky for a while where I've been, I've been accurate for a while, but who knows how long that's going to be. And if I start thinking that it's something that I'm doing, I'll lose it. I just know it. So I'm really, I'm, I'm worried about that, answering that question. Okay. No worries. But it is, but I've been, I've been lucky. And, and I hope I will continue to be. I'm sure you will. But you know what, just the, and I know, and I know, you know, this, I've talked to plenty of psychic mediums and all of them had told me at some point they've gotten it wrong, like really, really bad wrong. So apparently it happens to everybody, you know, it does, but it's also very humbling. And it's also, it's really in a way it's really necessary because it brings you back. Then you study, you work harder at it. You don't take it for granted. You, um, you know, there's, there's these psychics that are out there. They're considered the best psychic of the Phoenix or best psychic of this or that. And that's just like the stupidest thing ever because it's, it's a really personal thing when you go to a psychic and some psychics work better with other people and it's not about being the best psychic i i've gotten readings by the so-called best psychic and so and so and they sucked and i told them you know and it wasn't i wanted them to be really good but they and it wasn't it was just because what they were telling me wasn't working for me but who knows they were probably the best psychic when they talked to the person that was judging those people but it's all really it's really individual um and some psychics Like I'm, I've been doing it for so long. I'm kind of a cynic when it comes to this stuff. And I just, I kind of cut to the chase and I'm kind of a dick. And there's other psychics that are really sweet and understanding. And some newer psychics are better because their information is just raw and it just comes out better. um you know the problem with a guy like me is i just don't care as much and uh but these others you know my sisters for instance they care a lot and it comes off in the reading and um you know so it's just it's a it's kind of a it's kind of a personal thing but i the second book was really because there's so much more ego attached to a psychic you know it's funny one of my chapters is called my third eye is bigger than your third eye and it's because when um when i go to these psychic places, these other psychics, some of them, they all try to out-psyche each other. You know, they all try to, oh yeah, I picked up on so-and-so. Well, I picked up on so-and-so. You know, it's like this competition. It's just, it's stupid because it's, you know, they're all good in different ways. And it's, the very first thing you learn about being a psychic is that ego is like the stupidest thing to have, because it means that you don't understand the basic principle of what a reading is, which is it's not about you. That's right. That's a good point. I actually did an interview with one psychic medium and she says she always reads with her eyes closed because that gets rid of ego. It helps. Yeah. I know a lot of psychics that do it with their eyes closed. It does. It helps. Like if the person's there, it helps if you don't look at the person because then you get the facial stuff and it's just, oh, it's confusing. And you, And yeah, sometimes it does. It does help. It looks creepy if you ask me, but, you know, sometimes it does help. My sister Echo, she does readings with her eyes closed. Very good. I really enjoyed this conversation with you, Michael. And before we go, I'm going to give you an opportunity to tell my listeners where they can find more information about you and anything else you're working on. Well, you know, I got this web thing. I'm trying. Well, yeah, it's called MichaelBody.com. And, you know, it's not that exciting, though. I got to learn how to do more self-promotion stuff. You're not supposed to, at least the old school ways you're not supposed to. But I got to learn how to do that more because there's way more psychics out there. So you got to do something. And, yeah, that's all. Or if you're interested in, you know, contact me. Just contact me at deadguysrus, like toysrus, at gmail.com. and I'll try and respond. Yeah, I'm kind of a no frills, kind of a psychic guy. Very good. Well, Michael, many blessings to you. And I really appreciate your time. Thanks. Thanks for talking to me. I appreciate you. All right. So that's going to do it for this edition. I want to thank my special guest, Michael Bodine, for joining me again. And his book is called A Psychic's Life, What It's Really Like. And you can pick this up right now on Amazon or right off Michael's website, which is MichaelBodine.com. I want to thank my producer tonight, Kim, and the Mysterious Radio team. I am your host, K-Town. I want you to stay well, and I will see you next time on Mysterious Radio. To find out more about our guest and all others, please visit our website at MysteriousRadio.com.