The Legend of History's Deadliest Whale: Porphyrios the Purple

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Just want to get a quick little explanation of what this is before it causes any more misunderstanding like this has done in the past. This is actually an episode that until now has been exclusive to subscribers either over at our Patreon or on the Apple Gris Club. So if you've heard this before, that'll explain it. You'll notice that we get a little looser on these episodes, a little weirder, just a little more chaos in general. So if you listen to this and decide you like it, you'll find a lot of other episodes in our feed just like it. I'm talking too much. Let's get to the episode. Newt Gingrich. Yeah. Anyway, who cares? Now Hermione would just use her little time watch thing and go back in time and just learn everything that needs to be good. And one more class today, because that's all you can use that for. Hermione, maybe not that smart. Just throwing that out there. All right. Sorry, I'm sick today. If I if I start coughing or fall asleep, that's on me. You're leading this episode. I am leading this episode. So you can't do that. It's going to be pretty troublesome. I'm sure if I just zonk out, but we'll cut it when you like asleep. We'll cut that part out. Let's really put Braxton to the test on this one. Listeners, like I would just assume he fell asleep at least twice, but you probably won't notice. We recorded this over six days. I'm a little sick. Maybe it'll be like that one time that you just fell asleep and you wake up 24 hours later and you have no idea what happened. He blinked. Yeah, it was a blink. It was crazy. I just I know we kind of covered this last time we spoke, but I want to stress that it was really, really like a matrix moment. I felt like a blink and it was the next morning and I felt totally rested. It's the weirdest thing I think that's ever happened to me. That's like when you get a full body when they sedate you, you know, like for a colonoscopy or something. That's what that feels like to me. We're one second, you're conscious and then you're just like awake and it's over. So the reason you said I was wrong when I brought that up, the way I brought it up, I don't know. It feels weird to say it's a blink because you like laid down on the couch, right? Yeah, it was on the couch, right? So you like laid down and then you blinked and then you woke up the next day. I guess you could say over the course of one minute, probably all that took place. The 24 hours was really the one that you got a little bit wrong. Isn't that just kind of sleep in general? Like isn't that bad? Yeah. You know that, never mind. It's totally normal to happen to me. Like dude, it was the craziest thing. I was awake and then I like lost consciousness and eight hours later I woke up. It was wild. You can believe it. Yeah, I'm a weird sick though. It's just kind of like my nose keeps running. Yeah, we played golf last night. But it's not like I have too much. I could hear it. You're sick in the way that like Stephen King is sick. He has a bunch of kids at the end of a book sick and twisted. Gross, dude. That's sick. Or sick in like Tony Hawk doing a 900. There's all kinds of sick. Jeff's all of those. You sound like you got the worst one. He contains multitudes. He's got that all wrapped up. But he's mostly sick like Tony Hawk, in my opinion. I would agree with that. Yeah. Nah. You're mostly sick and twisted. Probably more than Tony Hawk. Tony Hawk can do a lot of stuff. I can't. How much time is Tony Hawk spent on the dark web? That's a good point. Well, should I talk about some stuff I found on the web? Or we have some more stuff to talk about. I felt like there was some business we needed to attend to at the top of this, but maybe not. I don't think so. Thanks for listening, everyone. That's the business I want to attend to. It's great business. Thanks for being here. Yeah. So I wanted to talk a little bit about some animal attacks that happened in antiquity. I don't remember exactly what inspired this, but I know it was something that Jeff either did or said recently. So once again, all credit goes to Jeff. This is my episode. Exactly. I'll prepare another one for next week. That's on me. Yeah, I'm taking credit. So I gathered up five or six, I think six stories. And actually, I've got some pictures that go along with what I'm going to be talking about. This is always fun when I screen share. I do like that. They all happened long enough ago. This is kind of a Hugh Glass situation where they happen long enough ago that all of the events aren't quite verifiable. There's a little bit of mystique to attend to each of them. I like that. Do you? Yeah. I just assume it's all even like less. Fake. No, I assume it's even like a lesser version of what actually happened. I think it's all true, but I think even more happened, no matter what you're going to say. You might be onto something with some of these. But, yeah, so I gathered up six stories about some really interesting things that happened, either centuries or even millennia ago. And I think you're going to find some enjoyment in hearing me talk about these, especially U.S. You're a real nut for animals. You're obsessed with horses, Mike, especially white horses. Do you want me to zoom in on this guy? You're one map. You two. I hate that horse. Ted's shadow fax horse. OK, so the first one, this is kind of like the centerpiece of the episode. Not that the other stories are bad. Keep listening. Please don't turn the podcast off. We beg you. We need those listens. It means everything to us. The metric to see how long people listen to our episodes. That's what really keeps us going. OK, so the first one, it takes place in Constantinople. I'm not going to tell you the title of the article that I pulled this story from because it's going to kind of spoil it, but I will say that it came from Greekreporter.com, at least most of the information I gathered for this episode. That's where it comes from. Written by a guy named Alexander Grail. But this is like a very widely disseminated story that is known mostly in conjunction with inspiring, in part, the events of Moby Dick. And it's not the one you're probably thinking of, Wes. This happened much further longer ago than what is it, the Essex? I forget what the book was. Well, it was Essex. Heart of the Sea. We're going to cover that. There's two Moby Dick stories. Oh, there's probably more. But this one, Herman Melville, actually, he did cite this as kind of a smaller inspiration. He mostly pulled from the Essex story, though. But this is still pretty cool. Do you want to hear me tell it or should we just shut it down? I want to hear it. Okay. So my interest is peak. As you know, at the height of its power, the Byzantine Empire had all kinds of problems to deal with, just like any other, you know, like any other superpower, geopolitical superpower, people are kind of poking and prodding from every angle, seeing if they can make any headway into their defenses. In addition to all the crusaders and the Ottomans and anyone else that was looking to looter raid around the periphery of the city of Constantinople, there was one enemy that served as a particular thorn in the side of Emperor Justinian I. I pulled up this picture of just kind of a stylized picture of what Constantinople looked like back in these days. It looks pretty sick. Now notice, pretty cool river, lots of boats going on. Yeah, it looks like a pretty pleasant place to live. Remind me, again, this is what the current name of Constantinople is Istanbul, Istanbul, great city. Yes, loved it. Right. So this is the Byzantine Empire is also known as the Eastern Roman Empire, kind of one in the same, but also differentiated for historical purposes. But you can think of it just as an extension of the Roman Empire. Yeah, whatever you call the thousand this year, that big mosque up at the top. Oh, really? Yeah. What'd you do in it? I just sat quietly. It was very peaceful. I really liked it. Yeah, that's good. So Emperor Justinian I, he's the set by enemies on all sides, but one particular one he's having a little bit of trouble with. Starting sometime in the sixth century AD, what's that stand for, Jeff? Six. Yeah, right. After. Umeral six is what I was referring to. After Christ's death. More or less. Yeah, Anno Domini on the city streets. There are no Domini Anno Domini. That's what AD stands for. It's after death, I thought. No, that's a common misconception. I thought that for a long time too. But what's the word you just said even means Anno Domini is year of our Lord. So like zero BC is kind of like one AD is Anno Domini year of our Lord one. Otherwise, there's like 33 years, 33 years. When did AD start? I mean, historically, it's the day we thought that Jesus was born, the year of our Lord. Oh, alright. Interesting. Learn something new every day, don't you? Yeah. Alright, you know, I'm fixing to learn you some more stuff here. So shut up, Jeff. You asked me that. On the city streets of Constantinople, there began to be whispers. And then stories. And then abject public fear of something mysterious and terrifying lurking in the waters of the Bosphorus. A straight in the northeastern portion of the Mediterranean, which is a pretty big deal for these people because that's kind of a major way in and out of this city at this point in history. So for the next five decades, sailors had a decision to make. They could either stay on dry ground, safe, or risk their ship being attacked and sunk by porphyrius, a giant beast, the likes of which had never been seen in these waters, at least not quite so violently. So Procopius, he's a historian, sixth century Byzantine historian. He mentioned porphyrius in two of his works, History of the Wars and the Secret History, in which he wrote that porphyrios would attack all manner of sea vessels from small fishing boats to large merchant vessels, and even the occasional warship was just not afraid of anything, whatever this thing was. I'm sure you guys are putting two and two together. I know this story now. I remember it. Because it's one that came in, feeling some gaps. Well, no, I'm not going to, but as a hint, it's one that people started talking about it recently because of recent events. Wait, Wes, so tell us what ends up happening with you. I'm not going to spoil it. So even though porphyrios would disappear for a stretch here and there over the 50 years that he was active, sailors would still do really just whatever they could to avoid taking the waters they knew were inhabited by this beast, whether that means going the opposite way, extending to their trip time, just whatever they could in order to avoid this beast. What's your best guess, Jeff? What do you think we're talking about here? Man, that has to be a giant squid. Well, maybe this next picture will help illuminate a little bit. Or a sperm whale? Yeah, that's a good, yeah, sperm whale. How did you know? Because whales with teeth, I always think sperm whale. There you go. Yeah. See now you're teaching me stuff. Okay, so no one is 100 percent sure actually what species of whale porphyrios was, but Procopius left us some clues. So based on his accounts, it was recorded to have a length of 13.7 meters, 45 feet. Jeff? Yeah, that's two buses back to back. Sure is. And a width of 4.6 meters, 15 feet. It's not really. Jeff, well, buses come in different sizes. Sure, you could figure that out somehow. You could find two buses that do that. Sure, the lowest. So most people, like Jeff, they seem to think he was probably a sperm whale because of his size and the lifespan. 50 years is kind of a long time for whatever else they were thinking. And also it's temperament. But some other historians think it could have been Wes. An orca. Yeah. And that makes sense with how orc this behaves. Yeah, I think it's more likely it was an orca. Right. Because they were, what are they doing? They're like ramming rotors on boats over on the rudders. And the thing, damn boats. Exactly. The thing about sperm whales is they're not, they're not an aggressive species. Like we do have that history of the Whaleship Essex, which was sunk by a sperm whale, but that was a whale that they had antagonized. They'd thrown harpoons in and chased and everything. On the other hand, orcas, we have very recent history of them sinking ships. And that's, again, it's probably not aggression. It's probably more play than anything. But there is context for that. So for a sperm whale, it seems off to me. Can I, if I were betting on this, I would bet it being an orca. Can I tell you why I think it was a sperm whale? Yeah. So if you look at the drawing Mike has up, that that drawing does look like a sperm whale. True. So if they saw it and then drew that. So yeah. But there are some explanations of it being black and white, right, Mike? We'll get to the coloration, actually. It's actually, it's pretty interesting. But also if you're looking at this picture, Jeff, you, you see this whale 45 feet long, nose to tail. That would mean this boat's like 15 feet long. That makes this a pretty small boat compared to the features that it's displaying, like three decks of cannons. And it doesn't. People would all be like little people. Yeah. They all be like three inches tall. Yeah. Yeah. So take it or leave it, this picture, whether it's a accurate, verifiable account of what was actually happening in the waters here. If you guys know much about me, you know that I'm really passionate about seafood, but it might not be in the way that you expect. I really care about sustainability. A long time ago, I learned about overfishing and how much of a problem it is for the world's ocean and food supply. And it really affected me. So I'm very careful about my seafood choices. And I would never recommend a seafood brand to you guys if I didn't think it was a really good one. And that's why I'm so excited to recommend Wild Alaskan Seafood. Wild Alaskan Company is really the best way to get wild caught, perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. And trust me, it is really, really good fish because it's been so long since I've really eaten seafood regularly. 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So for me, again, I would not recommend a seafood company if I did not believe in them and I do believe in Wild Alaskan company. So not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com slash tooth for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com slash tooth for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan company for sponsoring this episode. Okay, like Wes was talking about, some other historians think it could have been just a massive orca and it really would have been if it was actually 45 feet. That's about as big as orcas have ever been measured to get, I think is what I read. And also because it's not very rare to see orcas in this part of the water world. Whereas sperm whales, they really have to navigate some pretty difficult straits and stuff to get up to where, yeah, I'll show you a picture. You guys are going to be like, how would a whale even get there? You're going to be dumbfounded. But with that size thing, like even on the leopard seal episode that we just did, there's historical reports of leopard seals up to 30 feet long. And there's no way they were that big. So people, when they see a really big animal, yeah, when people see a really big animal, they often exaggerate. That's a very common thing. If it's bigger than like 15 feet, especially dudes, it's really easy to say 30, 40 feet. Never, never trust a guy's measurements. No, exactly. Actually, I had an interesting question I wanted to ask you. Maybe this would be the right place for it, Wes. But like, do you think that the average size of whales and orcas and stuff that lived in the water, would it have decreased in the modern day? Not substantially. Not substantially. Not enough to where it would be. If anything, maybe a couple feet or something. Okay, cool. But that, you know, I shouldn't say that with any like confidence, but I would be shocked if whales had substantially decreased something really quick. This is an interesting aside that you bring up that I just want to get into really quick. If humans put a lot of pressure on an animal, especially marine animals, to get smaller, they can do it really quickly. Like a way that we've done that is with salmon nets, because the smaller fish are able to get out of the net. And then reproduce. Yeah, we're selective, selectively, you know, favoring those fish that are smaller. And then those are the ones that are left to reproduce. But we weren't really doing that with whales, pretty much like any sperm whale that was cited was killed. So I don't think there was a lot of pressure on them to get smaller, if that makes sense. It does. But again, I'm not sure. No, it makes sense. So according to historians, Cian Lewis and Lloyd Llewellyn Jones, whales weren't super well understood at this time, as you can imagine. So you can just think about these people living by this water where they haven't really ever seen an animal behave like this before. It's pretty much a nightmare situation for them. It's like a story you tell your kids if they're misbehaving, like you're going to get eaten by that, whatever that thing is out there. If you don't eat your. Well, is this porridge or whatever? Porphyrius. Porphyrius. Porphyrius is going to get you. Go to bed or Porphyrius will eat you. You have to make sure little Byzantine children being like, no, Porphyrius. And also, like I was mentioning before, they don't see, they weren't seeing a lot of these kinds of animals in these waters just because of like how difficult. And I pulled up this map just to illustrate. So you see the Aegean Sea in the bottom left and that kind of feeds up off of the Mediterranean. So we're looking at a pretty small window. And to get to where Istanbul, that's current day Constantinople, you'll see they'll have to navigate through this straight here and then up through an even smaller one where Istanbul is located. So like not super common to see huge animals making that kind of a trip is what I've read at least. So that's not. You don't think? No, I think I think more than anything, like aside from size, you wouldn't expect to see highly migratory animals going in there because they're going to have to come in and out. But there's no like a whale could go in there. Any whale could make it in. But a lot of whales like sperm whales can be really migratory, whereas orcas sometimes will resident orcas, especially will just hang out kind of in the same waters. So that's another point for me that makes me think it could be that's more likely it was an orca. All right, we're getting close to settling that case. Yeah. Well, so whatever the case is, best minds on it, whatever he or I guess I should say he or she, whatever they were, Porfirios is just going hog wild, just sinking all kinds of boats out there. You know, people were people were freaking out. But why the name Porfirios? You're probably asking yourself maybe like deep in your brain. That's a question that's floating around. Maybe not the first question you want to ask, but this is interesting. So I set it up with a segue in which I kind of assumed you were asking a question. Now I'm asking it for sure. Yeah, sounds like a job job. Sounds like a musketeer name to me. It does the fourth or fifth, I guess. So why the name Porfirios? One hypothesis suggests that it might come from the mythological giant Porfirion, a fitting name for the whale's size and power. It tracks. But in the 1990s, a couple of other historians connected a few more dots and think that the name might have referred to the deep wine colored hue of the whale or the orca's skin, since Porfirios is pretty close to their what their word was for purple. And I got I got a picture to show you here. Purple boy. And that here. I'll I'll make that make sense real quick. The theory is since gained support from other historians of notes such as John Papadoulos and Deborah Rocillo and another guy named Don Daniel Oggin. Sorry, I don't know who you guys are. I'm sure you guys are beautiful, intelligent souls. But they believe much. Porfirio simply means purple or purple boy. Specifically, they thought maybe it meant purple boy. That's what we'll call you when you finally dye your hair purple. Oh, dude, it's got a very yes. Yeah. Yeah. OK, so back to the story. Porfirios harassment of ships became such a problem that Emperor Justinian the first was forced to address the issue. But no matter what they came up with, nothing was working. They couldn't capture it, let alone kill it. They just threw their hands up and they're like, well, how long could this animal really live? Honestly. And they got their answer 50 plus years. It sucked for them for that whole time. The authorities ran out of ideas. They couldn't do anything. There's no recourse. But the situation ended up resolving itself in kind of a sad and sort of gross ending. When one day Porfirios, this is actually another point towards maybe it being an orca, but Porfirios was chasing a group of dolphins, which is more orca behavior rather than sperm whale. Definitely. Yes, 100 percent. I'm convinced now. It beached itself at the mouth of the Black Sea. It started wriggling and writhing to free itself, but only succeeded in making things worse, sinking deep into thick mud on the coast. Word quickly spread that the legendary whale was stuck in knowing that there was an imperial decree to kill the beast. A mob ran out with axes and whatever else they had on hand to take care of business. They hauled Porfirios further out of the water, farther, I should say, out of the water with ropes and wagons and then got to work. And for a long time, actually, they were just sitting there hacking it. And it was like barely even breaking through the skin. It was just like such a gargantuan orca, I guess we'll call it now. Well, we because again, sure, you haven't depicted as a sperm whale. So right. I'm sure this was drawn many hundreds of years after the fact. Probably. But eventually they did get through the tough skin. They divided up the chunks of meat and they either ate it right there on the spot, which is kind of weird and gross, but like in a celebratory kind of revelry, they just started eating. The beast right there. Or they stored it for later. I guess there was a method that they had to store that kind of meat for kind of funny that this this particular artist was like, I'm going to have his dong out and it's going to be way out and someone's going to climb in it. Yeah. So using it as a stepping stool. Poor guy, though. Look at Porfirios. Yeah, man, not a great end for our guy. I will say like the other possibility here is that this was a sperm whale that like had some kind of mental illness or something going on that completely changed its behavior. And that is possible, but they don't they don't chase dolphins for what I know. They are a toothed whale, but they're mostly diving down deep to eat squid and other things. They're not chasing like marine mammals on the surface. So it really feels like an orca to me. Well, just another one last twist. Go ahead, Jeff. Possibility. So like orcas and sperm whales both breathe oxygen. They're not fish. Correct. So maybe these people just were trying to keep it from drowning, pulled it out of there. Doing some CPR in the blowhole or something. You need someone with like a huge mouth to give like a blowhole CPR. Maybe this is how humans started. It's these whales getting on land. This whale thing in Constantinople. We could have had the next stage of evolution. Yeah, if they hadn't killed it. Right. Well, Procopius wrote the historian that the whales death orcas death, whatever it was, death was a huge relief to the people of the city. Finally, finally boats could come and go as they pleased without fear of their precious ship and cargo being sunk or could they? After it was slaughtered on the beach, there were some rumors that had not been porphyrios at all, but some other whale that had gotten itself beached and killed. So maybe maybe we got like a hue glass kind of situation going on here. Yeah, maybe it could have been even that's the confusion. Like maybe they saw sperm whale out more in the ocean, but it is like that some orca smart enough to frame this sperm whale. That's true. Oh, you think porphyrios maybe like nudged it up onto the beach to take the fall like a passing? He would just wait to like strike the boats until the sperm whale was up out of the water. And they would be like, oh, that's what just got us. Like that time when you farted in class and blamed it on that other guy. Yeah. That didn't work very well. Porphyrios too loud of a fart. A little better. OK, well that so that's the story of Porphyrios. I thought that was really interesting. I love just super strange little anecdotes of like that from antiquity because you don't don't get stories like that all that often. Yeah. No, it's interesting to think orcas have been sinking boats for a long time now. Yeah, something that I find like kind of weirdly heartwarming about this is that what year was this in again, Mike? Sixth century. Sixth century. Sixth century AD. Yeah. So like that many years ago, they were sinking boats and people felt powerless. And now in like 2024, they're sinking boats and people feel powerless. Like there's very little we can do to stop these animals when they start doing that. I guess today they probably could have killed the orcas that were doing it. Feel more heart-bent. Hopeless because they're like laws nowadays. Right. That's true. But I think it would have been. If it was on our yachts, they would. Fair enough. They probably could have killed the orcas. That's a good point. But I do. I do love it. It's a good point though. I hear what you're saying. Yeah. That they do hold some power over us. Yeah, I don't know. We still have fear of them sinking our boats even today. Yeah. I'm pretty convinced it's an orca. I really am. Feels right to me after hearing what you said and reading over all this stuff. It was. I want that to be the case. If you were an orca, what would your strategy be to take down a destroyer like a U.S. destroyer? I'd wait until they're about to launch a torpedo and then swim up the torpedo tube. Block it. That's pretty good. It'd be like a suicide attack, but it would blow them up too. That's probably the best way. Or just chuck a dolphin in there. Just keep hitting the rudder. Yeah, just hit that rudder. Sure. I think those rudders would. I don't know. I'm not an authority on destroyers or aircraft carriers. It seems like they wouldn't be able to do that. But Mike, and one thing you kept saying like a whale or an orca, you can call them whales. Yeah. Right. I just wanted to clarify that for our audience. Because we kind of confused that once. Whales is a big circle. Yeah. Can you say dolphins are whales? Dolphins are whales. So anything that falls within the cetacean family can be considered whales. So dolphins are whales. Orcas are whales. Pilot whales. And then you have your big baleen whales too. So you have like humpbacks, gray whales, right whales, those kind of whales. They're all whales. But then dolphins is a subgroup of whales. So orcas are dolphins. Dolphins are dolphins. They're all still within that larger group, which is whales. Humans. Did you call that parking ticket I got on my windshield? A cetacean? No. It was a whale of a fine. I'll tell you that much. That's not a good joke. Jeff, you were about to say humans. And there is a good like primates and humans like apes. Are a smaller subset of primates. That's like the dolphins of humans. Yes. Apes would be the dolphins of humans. Well, of primates. Humans would be the dolphins of primates or apes. Sure. Clear. Yeah, I don't know. Or like I was going to say if we're snorkeling, we're pretty much whales. Some of us. We got like our blow holes. We got. Yeah, we do. Don't I don't have a great argument for our blubber. We're mammals. Next story, you guys ready to move on? Are you any final words in reverence for Porphyrios? Porphyrios, good. Yeah, good story. Good run. Good run. All right. This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. You know, it doesn't belong in your epic summer plans, getting burned by your old wireless bill. While you're planning beach trips, barbecues, and three day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. With Mint, you can get the coverage and speed you're used to, but for way less money and for a limited time, Mint Mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for $15 a month. $15 a month. That's like, that's nothing. It's like my daily chocolate budget. So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw dropping monthly bills, and unexpected overages. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talking text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Ditch all that overpriced wireless nonsense you're probably all tangled up in right now and get three months of unlimited service for Mint Mobile for $15 a month. And listen, I did this. This is something I truly believe in. I used this for years. I recently switched to someone else and I'm actually kind of regretting it, so I'm probably gonna hop back on Mint pretty soon. This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just $15 a month at mintmobile.com slash tooth. That's mintmobile.com slash tooth. Upfront payment of $45 required equivalent to $15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Okay, next story. You guys have heard of the band The Tragically Hip, right? Canadian superstars. No. Well, this story is called The Tragically Bald. Look at this guy. I just got a picture. His name is Iscalus. You guys may be familiar with him. Classical Greek playwright. Really made his bones writing tragedies. He really kind of elevated the art form of the tragedy and the poetry and theater world. One of the three greats along with Euripides. And I forget the other one. Sorry, I'm not a Greek. I'm not a classical lit whatever. Bob people are like the last group of people you can still make fun of without too much pushback. I know it's not fair. They didn't choose anything, you know. Yeah, it sucks to go bald. Some of them do choose, but you can just go to Istanbul and get some. He knows. Crazy. Watch out for Orcas. Doc Rivers, because he has a hairline by this bald. Or Chris Paul, where he was like bald, but he has like a bald spot. Under the lighting of the NBA arena, his head, you can see hair on it, but there's also a glint like it's shining off. It's like shinier than a bald head. It's really cool. Good job, Doc. OK, Iscalus. Athens great dramatist, made his bones writing tragedies. Jeff, you'd like this guy. He was all about writing, I don't know if you're familiar with like Agamemnon, Clyde Nestra, like a lot of revenge, a lot of payback, a lot of nice. Yeah, getting getting even, you know. Yeah. So he wrote about 80 plays, we know, and only seven still exist. And thankfully, one of them is the complete trilogy, the arrestees. That's Agamemnon on through the three, which is great, because it really suck if we had like the first two parts, but then we didn't get that finishing trilogy part. It's like not having Return of the King. Yeah. That tragic. He's talk about tragedy, you know. So with all the cockamamie he's got this, his whole stick is writing these crazy weird ways people are dying or being killed. So it almost seems fitting that he himself would die in a fairly tragic way. So this is kind of a tough picture to make out exactly what's going on. But in 455 BC, he was outside, probably just minding his own business. And the story goes that an eagle carrying a turtle spotted his bald head somewhere far below, probably like a glint of sunlight bounced off his shiny head. And the eagle is like, oh, there's something I can break the shell of this turtle on. Because that's the thing eagles do, right? They like drop some turtles and tortoises on rocks. So he mistook East Colossus's head for a rock and dropped a turtle right on top of him. And it killed him. And this picture is great because you can see like in the air, there's one turtle falling. But also you can see there's already a turtle hitting his head. So this eagle is dropping two turtles on this guy. That's amazing. And he just looks sad, like unbothered, but still gonna keep reading. It's like the pictures you see of people like a water balloon has hit their face, but they haven't quite physically registered it yet. So their face is still completely like a slow mo right before. Yeah, right. Anyway, so that thus ends the tragic life of East Colossus. So you give that credit to the eagle turtle. Yeah, who gets that kill? Like is that death by turtle or by eagle? I'd say eagle. Yeah, I mean, to the eagle. The guns don't kill people, Jeff. Here's the thing. I think a few eagles have killed people in history. This might be like our only turtle we can take for like killing someone. I should have saved this story. Yeah, we could have built a whole episode out of this. Yeah, I'm with Mike on that. I think the guns don't kill people as a perfect analogy for this. Well, in that case, it'd be a bullet is the turtle though. So what's the gun his feet? Well, I don't know. Bullets kill people. But like the argument isn't like you don't think bullets kill people. Yeah, but who like who pulls the trigger the person on the trigger dog. The eagle is the gun, but the turtle is the bullet. No, the eagle is the person who's using the eagle weapon because someone needs to be using the eagle. Maybe sometimes guns just go off. That's true. Then in that case, our guns do kill people. But outside of that. All right, we've lingered on East Golis enough. Let's go. Sorry about this. So we can't we can't make that. That's true. We can't we can't disagree. Yeah. So this is St. Connlith of Kildare, Ireland. We're going to Ireland. Connlith was the head of the Kildare School of Metalwork and Penmanship and one of the three chief artisans of Ireland. Upon meeting him, renowned Irish Abbas Bridget invited him to become the governor bishop of her double monastery at Kildare. She was just so impressed with his art. She was like, you got to be a person of influence and of note and help me out here. And he agreed. After about 20 years of serving as the bishop, Connlith set out on a pilgrimage to Rome to buy new vestments and an altar plate to replace the ones that Bridget had just sold for money to help the poor and the needy, which is a worthy, you know, that's a great thing you did, Bridget. But Connlith is like, we also still need this ritual stuff that we use at the church. So I'm going to go get some from Rome. But he was old at this point. He was a little old and Bridget was like, you're not going to make it, dude. You should stay here and let someone else take care of everybody. He's like, no, no, no, I got this. And then she received a premonition from God. It just so happens. Quote, you shall not arrive at Rome and you shall not return. That premonition. God said, very well have been real. That God said that through Bridget is Bridget. How the story goes. I saw both spellings. Bridget and Bridget. We're back to the weapon. Slash user of the weapon, though. Right. So somewhere along the journey from Ireland to Rome, Connlith was attacked and killed by wolves, which at the time lived in the woods in the mountains of Linster. His remains were transferred to a church of Ireland Cathedral and killed Aaron 835 AD in order to protect from the invading Vikings of Denmark. They thought, you know, bringing in some saintly bones, some remains would grant an aura of protection, of how that would protect. It didn't. It worked. It worked quite poorly. The Vikings, they really got up to all kinds of nonsense and they didn't show up and they were like, oh, wait, are those bones? We're out of here. Yeah. So many, many, many attacks from Vikings later. Ireland kind of got run rough shot over for a while there, just like, you know, no shame. And I want to personally apologize. All my ancestors are Danes. So that's my bad, I guess. We had Norwegian ancestors, so we're in on that too. Right. But even those bones weren't very effective. All kinds of people were killed. Like the, I think the monastery itself, where he was buried was like stormed and pillaged by the Vikings. So like these bones were really ineffective. Yeah. But he was still made the patron saint of the Roman Catholic Saint Connlith parish and is still celebrated on the 4th of May with a feast every year. So like you try. It's kind of like, thanks for giving it your best. But and honestly, if anyone from Ireland is listening by any chance, I'd love to hear more if like this is actually a day that's celebrated and upheld to this day kind of. If I got anything wrong, even as Star Wars Day choked it out at this point. That's so true. May the 4th. Oh my God. I feel like Ireland's rebounding a bit though, like just in general, maybe just the bones took a long time to work. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. His bones are finally coming to fruition. Yeah. Good work. Good work Connlith. He's a great artist. I love this. I can't. This picture. Say whatever you want about him. He's good at art. I know. He's very. He looks like he's like very nonplussed. Like you just told a joke that he thinks is stupid. I like it. He's so powerful. Yeah. He looks like so. Okay. So next story. Let's go on to this is Crecipus of Solis. And a fig loving donkey. You can kind of see once I lay out the title of the story, what's going on in this picture. So a Greek philosopher from the third century BC named Crecipus of Solis once spotted a donkey eating his figs. Seeing the perfect setup for a joke, he quipped to anyone nearby enough to hear him that someone ought to give that donkey some wine. He joked that someone should give that donkey some unmixed wine, Wes. I can't. I'm with you. I'm with you. So. This is fitting, actually. Like let the donkey keep eating his figs so he could get that joke off to like as many people as possible. So. The expression on his face is so good. This is this man. This story is about to repeat itself, but a Reddit user actually helped me put together this joke. So credit goes to user if it grates. I think that's how you would say that. Like you told me to the Reddit user. No, I just saw a post from years ago, whatever. So figs and donkeys are symbols of Dionysus, the god of wine fertility in theater. So basically what happened is Crecipus saw two things that reminded him of Dionysus and couldn't pass up on the opportunity to finish the scene by invoking Dionysus himself by giving the donkey some pure wine to wash it down. It's starting to get funny now, right? Well, whatever you guys think, he thought his own joke was so funny that for quote, for that seeing his ass eating his figs, he told his old woman to give the ass some unmixed wine to drink afterwards and then laughed so violently that he died. See, it was funny after all, right? He left so hard. They gave the donkey why he died. Okay, we're going to get this. We'll make it together. Please don't turn it off. We're finishing this. I swear. So stupid. So you're counting that one for the donkey killing him. I'd give it to the figs, I think. Okay, next story. We got to move on. This is holy cow. Okay, this is about Milo of Croton, also killed by wolves, much like Conlith. Two stories ago. So this guy, he was a six time Olympic wrestling victor and loved, he just loved strutting his stuff. He loved showing off how sick he was. Deodorus sickless wrote in his history that Milo commanded the Crotonian army, which defeated the Sibirites in 511 BC, while wearing his Olympic wreaths and dressed like Heracles and a lion's skin and carrying a club, which is pretty sick. You go to war like in lion's clothes, just with a club and then he wins. That's rad. But if there's anything Milo loved, it was showing off how strong he was. And a few of his go to moves for these. He would hold out his arm with fingers outstretched and challenge people to bend his little finger, which is like pretty impressive if he's actually strong enough to like stop someone from doing that. That's it's amazing. Pretty amazing. Okay. The next one, you guys will be impressed by this. He would stand on a greased iron disc and challenge people to push him off of it. All right. Yeah. That's pretty impressive. Yeah. This next one, this one's cool too. He would hold a pomegranate in one hand and challenge others to take it from him. Nobody ever could. And despite him holding the fruit very tightly, it was never damaged. So he'd create like a loose cage with his hand around the pomegranate. Wow. I don't know. I mean, pretty impressive, right? Pomegranates, I feel like are kind of hard to damage though, right? If you're just squeezing them. Yeah. I think if you're like squeezing, I don't know. It's a good it's a good tidbit. I just it makes sense to me. Oh, I got to see if pull up this next one, maybe. Oh, shoot. That's a little too early, but we knew where this was going. So he would train in his off years by carrying a newborn calf on his back every day until the Olympics took place. By the time the events were to take place, he was carrying a four year old cow on his back. He carried the full grown cow the length of the stadium, then proceeded to kill, roast, and eat it. And that's like, that's pretty, that's good intimidation, you know. Yeah. Can you, Matt? Wes, you wrestled in high school. What if you saw some dude just bring a cow in and then like eat it right in front of you? I wouldn't want to wrestle him for sure. Exactly. I would be intimidated. Especially because Wes wrestled at like 95 pounds. So Milo's final test of strength came when he was traveling to the countryside in MetaVillager, trying to split a stump with a hammer and wedges. Milo excitedly asked the man if he could attempt to split the wood with the strength, not using any tools at all. So he'd like put both of his hands in the stump where the split already was. We tried to rid America. Oh, cool. The villager, honored by Milo's offer, he knew who Milo was, of course. He went off to fetch food while Milo worked on the stump. Milo immediately tried to pull the stump apart by inserting his fingers into the crack where the villager had driven the wedges. As he pulled the stump open, the wedges fell out and the stump quickly snapped in on his fingers, trapping him on the spot. There he waited for the villager to return with the food and to help him out. Legend then says that Milo met his end when wolves, or maybe a lion, took advantage of his predicament and descended upon him. This event turned into a favorite subject in art for Italian Renaissance sculpture. And if you look this up on Google images or whatever, you'll see a lot of images of like, it really looks like lions are just eating his butt. They're like many different depictions of the same event and they all kind of look weirdly sexual. Like eating his butt or eating his ass. You know what I meant. But I like this one. I like the wolves because it isn't quite as, I don't know. Yeah. I just like the wolf version for more than the lion for some reason. Yeah. But there you go. He's a tough guy. Look, the stump caught him. That'd be kind of embarrassing to be that tough. Yeah, and then get killed by a stump. Yeah. Well, again, what really killed him? What killed him here? Who do we give the stump? I think the wolves. The wedges? Seems like if he had his hands prior, those wolves were toast. True. It may not always seem like it, but I can get pretty high strung and nothing feels better to me than just being able to chill out a little bit, but in a completely natural way. 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This is like a million years ago, Jeff. This is King Paraksheet. So King Paraksheet toiled alongside his son to consolidate and unify the Kuru states around what is modern-day Delhi, India. For those who you guys probably all put that together. It is said that his Kuru kingdom flowed with milk and honey, and that everyone lived happily, and he became known as the Raja Vishvajnina. I think I'm saying that right. Vishvajnina. That's how it's spelled. The universal king is what that means. One day King Paraksheet set out on a bear hunt, and he spotted one, but before he could take it down, the beast took off at a run. The king chased the animal, but in vain, and due course he got lost in the forest and became very weary and very thirsty. He then came to the hermitage of sage Samika, who was meditating. The king pleaded the sage to quench his thirst, give him something to drink. However, the sage, deep in meditation, he didn't move. He didn't even acknowledge that the king was there. He was just sitting there, and the king was like, I'm the king. What's going on here? This is you should respect me kind of thing, you know? Yeah. So he played a little prank on this sage. He picked up a dead snake that lay nearby and placed it around the sage's neck and left the place. Sage Sringin, the son of the sage Samika, came home to the hermitage, and was shocked to see the desecration and placed a curse upon the man who had so disrespected his father. Quote, That sinful wretch of a monarch who hath placed a dead snake on the shoulders of my lean and old parent, the insulter of the Brahminas and tarnisher of the fame of the Kurus, shall be taken within seven nights hence to the regions of Yama. Death by the snake of Taksaka, the powerful king of serpents, stimulated there too by the strength of my words. The pretty serious. One week from now, the Taksaka, the demon king snake being, he's gonna get, he's gonna get you king. Yeah, that's crazy. He like has the authority to do that curse. Yeah, I don't know anyone personally. That would be cool. They could pull that off. He was like in your inner circle. Yeah. So when Shamika, this he's the sage who had the snake placed around him, when he learned about the curse that his son had given, he was disappointed. He was like, you know, I get why you would be mad, but like, let's forgive and forget. Shamika ordered his disciple, Garmuka, to go to the go to Paraksheet and tell him everything about his incoming death. When Paraksheet heard about the curse, he actually was just accepting of his fate. He's like, you know what, I deserve that. I shouldn't. I was kind of being a snot there. I should die. Wow. But the ministers, they had different ideas. They created a mansion that would stand on a solitary column and remain well guarded. But I was so kind of like a Rapunzel situation or I mean, I guess sleeping beauty, get rid of all the potential dangers. Right. Like at a piss run away from home. I don't want to have sex with my mom is what he was probably saying. So he ran away, ended up doing it. Oh, talk about tragedy. Those Greeks had a lot of ideas. Okay. But the curse of a sage never fails. The great snake, Tuxaka disguised as a worm in a basket full of fruits, laid in wait for the opportune moment. The king reached forth his hand for some of that sweet, sweet fruit and got bitten, died exactly seven days later. The curse came true. Oh, man. It's like the ring. Right. It's too bad because like it seemed otherwise. He's a pretty good dude. He made a pretty sweet kingdom for everyone to live in. But yeah, you know, it's not even like that bad of a prank. Yeah, he's just playing a little prank. It was a dead snake. Wasn't even the live one. Right. Yeah. These stages need to lighten up. It reminds me that time when I pranked the guys in college, like they pranked me and then I just went like so much harder at them. That's kind of like this. There's like they wrote my phone number on like a hundred cars. That sucked. So I got like a ton of like texts and calls and like people being like, you want to go on a date, people being like, why is your car? Why is your number on my car? Are you selling this car? So then I went to a butcher and I bought a pig's head and I stabbed a note in with a knife that was like threatening. Which is a Larson tradition. Cyrus did that first, then me, then you. And then my friends, my friends who like did the prank to me, football players, got in a huge fight with them that night. And they were like already on edge. And then I put this pig head in their apartment and I threw the smoke grenade in there. Like I threw a huge smoke grenade and the next day I like went over there and they had called the cops and they all had like guns and stuff. And I was like, whoa. All right, call it off. I'm just going to go silent for like a week here. Like kids got pulled out of like football. If you need a pig's head, any Latin meat market near you will probably have one. So it works really well. You're like in the you're Kendrick in that beef and those roommates were the Drake's. Yeah, I was like, I'm putting it into this. Yeah. Okay, well that ends. I think that was six stories of animal attacks and antiquity. Hopefully that was illuminating or fun. Yeah, that was great. I like the guy who laughed so hard he died. You too. The most. So, Steve, it was a good joke though. You can't really do so good. It's crazy that like it was a joke that you yourself told. I feel like that's but then when he saw it carried out, he was like, oh, it was funnier than I ever could have imagined. So good. Okay, let's move on. It seems like his wife didn't really get it. Because she just watched him laugh and well to death. All right. Because because she lived. So obviously she didn't get it. She would have died. That's what I'm saying. She like didn't get how funny it was. Okay, let's go to categories. What's your favorite tragic movie? Wes, I'm calling on you. Yeah, I was thinking about this one. I my knee jerk was to go with Atonement, which I brought up not too long ago on the podcast, but I just think it's like a really beautifully made movie. And it's one where just like the tiniest little mistakes end up in huge tragedy for the people. And it's it's one of those movies where you want to like shake someone in the movie and be like, no, don't do this. I also like a runner up for me was American History X. I honestly haven't seen it in so long. I don't know how well it would hold up today. But that was one where getting movie about brothers always hits me a little harder since we're all brothers in the family. And then it I always thought it was poignant because it was like the main character is trying to make up for his terrible choices and his like racist life. And he's trying to do better. But so much momentum has already gone into his little brother that it's too late to kind of stop those chickens from coming home to roost. And I really I don't know that one always kind of hit hard for me. But that was my back. It's crazy when he dunks reverse dunk backwards. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the most athletic things you'll ever see. And it happens in that movie of all movies. The Wild. I'd probably go Manchester by the sea. That one's just like they kind of just wrote a movie to be as sad as they possibly can. And then like Casey Affleck just has really good sad eyes. And he's does perfect in that movie. Yeah. Runner up would be Legends of the Fall because the brothers. Yeah. And Montana. I haven't really ever fully stopped thinking about Grave of the Fireflies ever since I saw it for the first time. Studio Ghibli World War Two fallout kind of just devastating. Another tale of siblings and just an unadulterated view of the horrors of war and the effects that it has long after it's quote unquote ended. And then I'll give a back up to why not just because you guys did. But another movie that's like that for me is Requiem for a Dream. The tough one. Just so sad. And anyone that's had someone that deals with addiction in their life kind of you probably know what that feels like. My number one tragic movie that like shouldn't feel as tragic as it does is The Six Man. The brothers play basketball and then one of them dies. But then his ghost helps his brother play basketball. That one as a wreck. Requiem for a Dream is also tragic because Jared Leto's in it. Let's not forget that. He was good in it though. What happened to him? Well maybe he was already whatever. Yeah I liked Young Leto. They should make a movie out of the East Coast just getting dome shotted by a tortoise. That would be I guess that's more of a comedy. Also in the Greek tradition. Most of these things were pretty funny. Yeah but yeah maybe we could make an anthology. Okay next category. What would you say is one thing that you're cursed with? You have like a specific thing you feel like is particularly just a being your bonnet. A killie's heel of sorts. I'm like really bad about losing stuff. Probably would be my number one. Like the second I set something down it's out of sight out of mind situation. That's a good one too because there's all kinds of stories about little house elves that run around like misplacing your stuff. Maybe it really is just like an actual curse. I've been told I have ghosts where I live so it could be ghosts. That's right and you've pissed them off too. You flipped off those ghosts. I was asking for it. Several times. I picked something that I kind of feel stupid about picking now because it kind of sounds like a good attribute. I guess I didn't really like think about this very well but I know. Sultry baritone voice. A good memory. I feel like I have that is a curse. A good memory. I do have some blind spots. Like don't get me wrong. There's definitely things that I don't remember well but there's certain things that I just remember crystal clear and it really bothers Jesse actually because sometimes I'll remember things so well that it feels like I'm weaponizing it. I probably do that sometimes to be honest. I feel like that's a hard thing when you know you remember something clearly but it's impossible to tell the other person I remember this better than you. Anyway that's something that I... But I'm not saying I feel that way about everything. I definitely have some blind spots where I don't think I have a good memory. That sounds like the kind of curse that'll get better as you get older. Yeah. You'll start forgetting. And it's a curse and a blessing. It's one of those things that I also am really happy I have. But... Cursed with a huge penis is what I'm saying too. I don't have that. That's tough dude. So my curse is I feel like whenever I'm trying to be extra careful to not let something happen that care that I'm going to such great lengths to take is what ends up actually causing me to do the thing that I was trying to avoid in the first place. Like you know just talk about sunglasses. I try never to touch the lenses or like put them in any kind of place where they could get dinged up. So like handle them very carefully and then they'll just slip out of my fingers and hit the gravel on the ground. And it's like well I might as well have just grabbed them and handled them like a normal person. I don't know this is going to sound stupid but this is something that happens to me almost daily where like I try to handle my phone very carefully and I'll just fling it across the room somehow. And it's so stupid. It always happens. It's a curse. Can I tell you what I think your curse is Mike? Yes please. It's that like you're a very likable person that people want to be around and that's like your worst case scenario for what you want in life. That's true that's a good animal. Yeah that's I can change in my answer to that. Well I guess I shouldn't because that's a little self aggrandizing but no. Yeah this would choose a self aggrandizing one for that. It's not what I was trying to do. Wes and I feel stupid. I know. Big penis Larson over here. I didn't say the big penis thing. Is that whale? Also do you want to see that picture? That's like dude that's what you've got. Yeah that's what I'm going to say. Compared to Wes. It does a little drawing of a tiny man crawling up my penis. Okay next this is about Conlith. We all like Conlith I feel like after that little story we told of him. So if there was a yearly feast held in celebration of your life what would be served and what date would you want it to be on? I mean I'll go for it since you guys it's my prerogative you know. I'll set the stage. This is going to be a bad one but I love fruit so I just want a giant buffet of every kind of fruit available and I want it to happen on the day after Halloween. Just one last fruit hurrah of the year because I feel like fruit isn't really incorporated into much afterwards you know. Like Thanksgiving is not really a fruit kind of a thing or Christmas. Cranberries I guess but. Yeah I'll have one huge table of cakes and then one huge table of ice creams. You can only take one. No it starts out as like two desserts but then you grab one from each table and make your own single dessert. Yeah that's great. All right I love it. Wait what do you want it to happen? Yeah. Oh yeah um Christmas. Great yeah just double up. I actually I picked a buffet of fruits as well just because I think. Really? Yeah I just think there's something so nice about just having a ton of different types of fruit to choose from and you can kind of go you can be a glutton and not feel bad about it you know. And the day I picked was summer solstice because I think it's my favorite day of the year. I think it's just a time of like general peace for me. I really like just that's like the longest days you have most of the summer still ahead of you things are really green and beautiful the days are warm I just like the summer solstice so. Do you think you can have dinner that's just obviously you can but like do you think it counts as like a dinner if it's just fruit? I mean you I wouldn't probably count it. You know like a breastfist. There's people out there that would. Sometimes I'll do like a yeah. But I get point taken. Yeah I'm not I'm not saying. You didn't say dinner though right or did you? No. I just said feast. Like a feast. I'm not even trying to say you guys are wrong in your answer I just feel like I don't know are you we having like cream with the fruit is there ain't is it just there should be a bowl of cream I want some cream on mine. You can be different West you can have the fruit yeah and then fruit are we like we're counting like all the stuff that isn't actually fruit but we think of as fruit right like what like tomatoes or like berries avocado. It's berries fruit yeah maybe I'm thinking of vegetables. I'm pretty sure berries are fruit I'm not sure I will say this though in the coquille. Kiwis are keeping skin you're not taking that skin off those kiwis not at my feast you guys are weirdos that do that they're so healthy and good. I like the idea of I think that'd be a good switch up because like every meal so like centered around meat just to have like a fruit feast. It just sounds like kind of fruit medley breezy and nice and on summer solstice it just sounds very like refreshing and warm and good so that's what I want. Yeah great I'm glad I'm happy that we aligned on that that's nice a bit of synchronization there. Okay final category before we get the heck out of here I know you guys are hovering over that stop button right now talking about kiwis and shit you don't want to you're not here for that. Okay so this is yet another charity quiz is what I called this one. Two subscription episodes in a row we talked about kiwis. Oh we did oh man okay so ten dollars goes to charity for every question you don't get right but for every question that you do I'll give 20 dollars so this is gonna go I'm gonna alternate between you both. If I get every question right I want it to go to me and charity doesn't get anything. Deal okay you're not going to be asked all the questions which is a real yeah but if I go 100% okay you'll have to let me know if you do so each of you so we talked about four countries or four empires geographic locations we got Byzantine empire you have Ireland you have Greece what was the other one Istanbul oh yeah India kind of like the India the Vedic Vedic era I guess is what it was calling back then but I'm going to ask you each to tell me in which of those regions the following eight things were invented and you each get 150 50 like who wants to be a million our rules do you each ask each other for help once or you can ask for the clue that I have and can provide for one so you each get three kind of lifelines if you will. So we have the Indian one the Byzantine the Greek and the Irish Ireland yep okay and it's either someone it was invented there or by someone from there okay this is gonna get a little this is gonna be fun trust me uh Wes you're the first one to go uh the fork fork the classic dinner fork breakfast fork on a lunch all of them use fork sometimes I'm gonna say the Irish Byzantine dude the Byzantine empire the fourth century well dollars to charity so you each are gonna get asked four questions so you have three lifelines left to use you can use them on the same question or whatever three lifelines again 50 50 so I'll narrow it down yeah ask each other for help or you can have me read the clue that I've provided okay shoot I forgot Jeff next one used one where was democracy invented and what are the four choices again you got Byzantine empire ancient Greece ancient India Ireland you got it okay so we're up to 30 dollars Wes back to you so far it's going to me yeah so far just just getting all of it he needs you need it where's chest invented yes uh man I'll I'll do my 50 50 okay there's either Byzantine or India I'm gonna go with India on this one oh you got it you got it dude it was originally called Chaturanga that would have helped probably a pose that's a pose yeah the yoga pose okay Jeff back to you chocolate milk yeah where was that invented or someone invented that from this place so it says or where it's I can't remember all of them ancient Greece is Brisbane uh Brisbane yep so you got ancient Greece the Byzantine empire India Ireland um it's cut mine in half okay so it's either Ireland or India I'm gonna go to Ireland oh you got it I stalled a little bit too long on that maybe so apparently this is just an interesting thing this would have been the clue but he went to Jamaica this guy Hans Sloane from Ireland he went to Jamaica and he had this drink where they would just put like a bunch of cocoa in water and he was like this sucks but then he added milk to it and he's like this is this is it this slaps is nice probably yeah right it's slapped it is okay it holds up still it's so good yeah that's right to this day yep uh submarines west where where were those invented do you think hmm I want your hint I want the extra hint it was invented by a man named John Philip Holland John Philip Holland that sounds more Irish to me than anything of all those places so I'm gonna go with Ireland yeah that's it that was kind of a dead giveaway if you really start thinking about it I didn't do a good job on that one okay plastic surgery Jeff where was that invented I'm not gonna say ancient Greece the island brisbee give me your hint invented in 600 BC by the man known as the father of surgery 600 BC yeah think about that brisbane that's not an answer Byzantine right no probably Byzantine wasn't around by then it was India it was crazy the first like vinyl plasty they would do like skin graft and transfers this should have wrote his name down it's like Shutra or something but yeah he was like the largely credited with inventing plastic surgery I know that was really cool oh man this one west the olympic games uh ancient Greece oh the olympic games were so cool I wish we still had it does that make it dudes wrestling yeah it'd be like the hundred meter but they're all naked and it's like full contact and like people die every olympic games yeah yeah okay this is the last one this one goes to you Jeff uh the grenade where it was invented yeah I think you still got two life no one life I'll ask what's okay what's I'm gonna guess I'm gonna guess Jeff and this is to you this isn't the answer I'm gonna guess the Byzantine empire a good blocker in Byzantine oh nice nailed it so ceramic jars full of incendiary liquid they'd use it in naval warfare they used it to rebuff the Arab fleets that were besieging the city that's like a mott off cocktail that's not grenade well they they say that's the military history dictates that they were the ones who invented the grenade well I mean you got it right there's not really a whole lot I'm arguing on we got all taken up with chesty polar yeah so that means eight so six times would you have gotten mine with the the rhino plastic no I would have guessed Byzantine as well so I would have gotten yours but it would have been a guess 140 dollars to charity what I never choose to pick a charity before yeah you guys want to come up with one yeah yeah the the gates foundation let's not do that let's do a wildlife charity let's do let's do wildlife sos since we talked about india and we're going to india they're an indian wildlife rescue organization I've worked with a bit they're great so we'll do wildlife sos you're not on you don't sit on the board there's no conflict of interest on this one I don't sit on the board there and there's no conflict of interest for me drumming up donations for places I sit on the board well great good good work guys you guys are like the anti-stef curries you got you raised some money for charity I'm proud of you I think that just about does it for the episode any final thoughts you do the fork invented in fourth century ad that's like I would have thought that a fork would have come about a little earlier than that but I don't know I'm not I'm not a cutlery guy what's your opinion of forks I'm a fan I love it I'm pro for oh man I think they're too good at what they do huh I think like so interesting things become like too easy so it's almost like too boring now like in Japan you gotta use freaking chopsticks and it's hard so then you're like earning your meal a little bit more it's hard for us they would argue that it's better though right it's a little bit wrong the thing I like about a fork is that you can also cut with the side of it you know it's a really versatile really versatile little instrument I mean I'm a fan maybe kill someone with one I'm sure someone has at some point yeah for sure I think so yeah let's chop a kill for forks there's a few different things you could do with them sure good call we just watched uh something with it like you can use it as a comb all quite on the western front a guy kills himself with the fork yeah there you go so or in pirates of the caribbean that one dumb right zombie pirate yeah gets in the eyeball that would have killed him maybe he was alive yeah that was fun that was a fun scene like that was a really fun episode I enjoyed it yeah good I don't know I don't think I'll ever tell a joke that good those are the best jokes like the ones that like make you laugh like yourself that's like when you know you got a good one it's like when you can't stop laughing at your own joke I like to imagine he like he couldn't even get the joke out he was laughing so hard already so no one could understand him I love that his joke still hits today too like all three of us couldn't stop laughing Mike does that more than listeners realize I think we're like say something that cracks himself up and they just have to like leave the mic for a bit it's so stupid oh that's great I'm never changing though okay well uh thanks for listening thanks for um I'm glad you knew enough about that story that first story that you could kind of shed some light on what may or may not have been happening that's great I've done the most cursory little glance at it because it came up when people are talking about the recent orca incidents that I did some research into it and that was like something I was directed to but I'm really glad you dove into it because it was really fun thanks everyone for listening to you and uh that's it for me you guys want to you guys probably want to say bye and I love you and all that stuff love you see you you