America’s Next Top Body Shamer

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Dirty Rotten Scandals unveils the dark underbelly of the long-running TV series through the untold stories of former contestants and shows what happens when a golden opportunity for aspiring models unravels into a harrowing saga of exploitation, shattered dreams, and resilience. Dirty Rotten Scandals, America's Next Top Model, premieres on E! on March 11th at 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT. This is appointment television you don't want to miss. Hey y'all, it's Bridget. Before we start this episode, I want to give you a heads up that this one will be all about ANTM's legacy of body shaming. We'll be playing old clips from ANTM that are hard to hear. We'll also be talking candidly about the experiences of body dysmorphia and disordered eating. So if you have a history or are currently struggling with those kinds of things, just be mindful with this one. All right, let's do it. I was starting to watch Top Model with my mom. Season one, I was turned off myself. And I couldn't even remember that we did this because I've evolved even inside of Top Model over the years. Back in 2020, when new viewers were discovering Top Model while old ones were revisiting, Tyra Banks decided to take a walk down memory lane herself. And she was just as appalled as us. So season one, we had a weights and measures section of the show where the girls' height were measured and weight was measured. It is normal in the modeling industry. That's what is done. So we were trying to be as realistic in the modeling industry, not trying to embarrass anybody. It's just what is done. So we're pulling back the curtain. Back in the day, nobody complained about it. But as we all evolve, 20 years later, people are like, what the hell? including me, including the creator of the show. I looked at it and I was like, it just made me sick. While it is interesting to see Tyra taking accountability for the rampant body shaming that happened on A&TM, she seems to have selective memory. For one, the weigh-ins continued until cycle four. Miss J is here to take our measurements. It's really just trying to do weights and measures. see who is torn and who's considered fat, who thinks she's fat. I gained 10 pounds. 138. Trust me, at the end of this, I'll lose it. She is just a little bit bigger than the rest of us. For the crime of being 5'9 and 138 pounds, Brita was sent home in the first elimination of season four. At deliberation, Nigel Barker said she was carrying too much weight. season after season A&T M picked apart and scrutinized every inch of their contestants bodies and weights she's huge she's not going to be a top model she needs to lose 5 to 10 pounds they're all fat it's one thing what are you eating? her body is just doing its own thing it's all gone pear-shaped is what you're trying to say you gotta work on the thighs watch the diet next to us if the body could just slim down 150 pounds that would be good and she'd be 30 pounds. That would be better. America's top model is not a plus-size model. I'm sorry. And that was just the tip of the iceberg. These days, Tyra Banks likes to declare that she was an early champion of body positivity. But she created and hosted a show that was one of the biggest body-shaming offenders of our generation. Wanna be on top. Wanna be on top. Welcome to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. I'm Bridget Armstrong. In the first seasons of A&TM, they weighed the contestants and shamed them for having the nerve to weigh more than 130 pounds. They cast women with eating disorders and told them they were too hippie, too flabby, and too fat. They cast teenagers and 20-somethings who came to the show with confidence and left with body dysmorphia. ANTM brought on plus-size models under the banner of inclusivity in changing the industry. Then they used those very models to prove that there was no place for them in that fatphobic industry. The show took one of the most toxic parts of the fashion world and amplified it for our entertainment. And as a result, they taught an entire generation of young women how to hate their bodies. So on this episode, we're going to dive into one of A&TM's biggest sins. At its peak, America's Next Top Model was drawing 7 million viewers per episode. And a large portion of that audience was young women between the ages of 18 and 35. And if you're like me, you probably started watching in high school. We were bombarded with body shaming before we even knew what that meant. Before a lot of us even had a chance to develop a healthy self-image. It's hard to really quantify the negative impact A&TM had on us, the viewers. But for the models on the show, it's really clear. And I was a little chubby, so I got a trainer and I lost 50 pounds. I wanted to start modeling and the market that I wanted to be in was high fashion. And I know I couldn't fit into the clothes that the designers would want. if I was the size that I used to be. That's Ioana House, the winner of Cycle 2. Before auditioning for A&TM, Ioana lost 50 pounds. She did it because she wanted to be in an industry that didn't see plus-size models as high fashion. Ioana talked about her weight loss with the judges and other contestants on the first episode. And she told me A&TM producers took that and ran with it. I'd always wanted to model, but my body wasn't in the form to model. I was a little nervous weighing in. I lost some weight before I came. Ioana is very conscious of, like, her image. The issue with her losing all this weight, like, she wasn't secure within her own skin. Here's Ioana today. I shared something about myself, but I didn't know that it would be played all the time. Like, it felt like that was like a tagline or like it was a storyline that had to be constantly reiterated and repeated when it was just mentioned. And I felt like the show wouldn't let it go. Like every other episode, it would come up. ANTM made Ioana's weight loss the focus of her story. They wanted her to be the ugly duckling turned swan who didn't know how beautiful she was. When she had conflict with other girls in the house, ANTM made it seem like she was insecure about her body or jealous of those girls, which Ioana says wasn't true. I think they really tried to portray that maybe I wasn't confident and I was confident. I just got really uncomfortable constantly talking about it. It just seemed like it was like a broken record. That confidence didn't last long on an ANTM set. Ioana, her face is fantastic, but her body could do with a little bit of work. Ioana. Ioana certainly amazes me. She's got rolls of skin that hang over her jeans and in this nude, I don't see it. She looks like she's got a butt, which is a miracle because, quite frankly, I've never seen it before. My biggest problem is her body shape, I think. You know, I wouldn't want to see her in a swimsuit. It's kind of like a narcissistic relationship. They build you up, build you up, and then they gaslight you. They turn it around and make you feel devalued, and then they build you up again. So you're kind of like this yo-yo of self-esteem. You're like, I've finally gotten to where I needed to be. Now they're saying I'm not good enough. I never had an eating disorder. All of those challenges came after the show. Ioana came into A&TM with confidence about her body, and she left with the top model title and an eating disorder to match. A lot of what the judges said about Ioana's body was done during deliberation. So she saw their comments about her on national television, at the same time as millions of viewers. The photo that won Ioana the competition is her helmet shot. You've heard me mention it before. It's a close-up on her face. She's wearing a helmet with all her hair pulled back, and she's looking straight into the camera. The judges always had great things to say about her face, but when it came to her body, they were cruel. Even though she won the whole competition, she didn't feel like she was good enough. After Ioana left the show, she decided to prove that she was more than just a face. I remember watching the show and being so uncomfortable in a tank top, having it zoomed in. I'm like, OK, they're saying I look like a boy. Producers had a habit of zooming in on Ioana's body. They would edit those zoomed in shots while the judges were picking apart her body to really drive on the point. It was humiliating. So that kind of pushed me to also get breast implants. Ioana became obsessed with fixing her body, making sure she was always the quote-unquote perfect weight. After having a meal, she would choose to walk miles instead of taking the subway so she could earn the calories. She started spending more and more time at the gym. Every time she looked in the mirror, she saw a new flaw. She stressed over every morsel of food she ate, all classic signs of disordered eating and body dysmorphia. It just caused me so much self-loathing. It actually created a body dysmorphia. I had a lot of struggle, so I'm going to get emotional. I had a lot of problems within myself and my mind that I created an anxiety disorder with exercise. I don't think I've really gotten over it until recently in the last, I want to say, seven to eight, ten years. It took a really long time. It's the same thing Giselle Sampson from Cycle 1 went through. On episode two of this podcast, we talked about the body shaming she experienced. Giselle was 18 when she went on the show. She was a dancer and she liked her body. But when she watched her season of ANTM Air Live, She heard Tyra say she had a wide ass. I didn't even hear her say that to my face. I saw it on the show. So clearly I'm not good enough. Clearly I can't be a model. So how do I get rid of this wide ass? Oh, maybe I should stop eating. And then when I eat too much in one setting because I get so hungry, I'll devour it in one plate. oh, now I feel guilty. How about I go throw that up now? It took Ioana more than a decade to heal from the body shaming she experienced on A&TM. Giselle still carries the scars. To this day, I obsess over food. Either I'm binging it, and I just eat whatever I want, and then I'm guilt-ridden, or I'm like extreme fad dieting on like juicing or, you know, if I have a photo shoot coming up, I'll go like a whole month being like completely like just juicing and eating an apple and like severely working out to make me feel like I have control over the situation. The women on cycle one got it really bad. Even Tyra admitted that, so you know it was bad. They were the first group who were weighed on camera, despite Tyra bragging about being size inclusive by casting a plus-size model on the first season. What's the point of weighing us if we have people of all shapes and sizes? So, you know, that's like already like, oh my gosh, you know, what's wrong with how much I weigh? What's the need for this? And then you get into your head about that. I think A&TM wanted them to be in their heads about their bodies. I think they wanted to see the contestants stress about their weight. And there's no one who proves that more than cycle forest Kenya Hill. During her time on A&TM, Kenya was rail thin, supermodel skinny. But inexplicably, her storyline on the show became about how she was gaining too much weight. When I'm under a lot of stress, I find a real comfort in eating. Kenya, she feels like she's gaining some weight. But when the next bread tray comes around, she'll be the first one to grab a croissant or two off of it. Kenya said the stress of being in the competition and not having access to the right foods caused her to gain a few pounds. This photo is really beautiful, Kenya, but I hate to say it. They had to do a lot of body work on you and retouching. At home, pretty much I try to, you know, eat right. And we come here, my towels, everything is thrown off. Stop! If you're sporting a gut, then you turn to the side and disguise it. Kenya, in the real world, you're a thin girl. But the fashion industry is so extreme, and I would love to change the rules. But until that happens, I think it's all about choices, Kenya. You can get a burger and take the bread off. Tyra liked to position herself as the empathetic voice on the judging panel. And while her comments about Giselle on Cycle 1 proved she wasn't above the body shaming, Tyra usually wasn't the one directly insulting and shaming the contestants. That was reserved for Janice, Nigel, and sometimes Miss J. But Tyra had her own way of making the contestants feel bad about their weights and bodies. In that clip, she dismisses Kenya's explanation, calls the fashion industry extreme, and then upholds the same extreme standards. Not to mention, she blames Kenya for eating the bread on a burger that was probably served to her on an A&M set. Now, I want to be clear here. While the judges may have said Kenya was getting too big, it didn't translate to the camera. I remember watching this season and feeling like this weight gain storyline was a stretch. So did Kenya. I absolutely felt like it was coming from left field. It honestly was also like a bit of a mind fuck for me because my entire upbringing, I was made fun of for being slim. I was made fun of for being the skinny girl and never had hips, never was like a curvy, like any of that stuff. than to go on the show and have people say, you're not skinny enough, is a huge mindfuck. I just really felt like, well, what do I do now? And how am I now drastically going to drop weight? Not to mention, I was like only 18, 19 years old. I didn know what to do to all of a sudden be this super even skinnier girl That was really confusing for me Kenya wasn the only one confused The judges actually had a disagreement about Kenya weight with two guest judges during the trip to South Africa. She walks in and she looks like a top model. No, she looks pudgy. By African standards, she would be the skinniest girl in life. By African-American standards, she'd be skinny too. Kenya's weight was a constant topic of debate, and it was clear the producers wanted to see her stress out about that. They wanted her to be self-conscious. It wasn't just the judges talking about her weight. The producers created opportunities to reinforce the idea that she was getting fat. There was a photo shoot where the models had to represent the seven deadly sins. They literally put the girls in a coffin in a grave in a cemetery for the shoot. Side note, you might remember one of the contestants had just gotten news of a friend's death right before the shoot. And they put her in a coffin too. Just had to mention that. Anyway, Kenya's deadly sin was gluttony. They filled her coffin with food and put a donut in her hand. It was just like gluttony, like, ah, I'm greedy, I'm hungry. Kenya, it just came off looking a little campy as opposed to fashioning. Don't hold your tummy like you're pregnant. In South Africa, they did a photo shoot where the models were dressed up as animals. Kenya was given the elephant. Everybody else has these sexy little animals. I like it to be the big fat elephant. Why do I keep getting stuck with these fat, like, characters? What is going on? Just for the record, that was A&TM's music choice, not ours. Kenya was eliminated right before the finale runway. When the judges were deciding who to send home, Janice brought up Kenya's weight again. I asked Kenya what it was like when she got home and watched her season finally air. When I see Tyra and the crew people and the behind the scenes, the producers and all these people who are like smiling in your face and like making it seem like they're your friend. And then when I watched the edits back with the with the rest of the world, like when I was in South Africa and we were walking on the beach, they were like zooming in on my belly on the beach. I felt betrayed because it's like, y'all people made it seem like y'all were my friend. Now you're fat shaming me on TV with the entire world to see. Kenya was 19 when she was on ANTM, but the experience of being made fun of and told she was fat had a profound effect on her. She is still self-conscious to this day. for a period of time I felt really uncomfortable eating in public because god forbid anybody in this public setting watched me on tv and they believed what was portrayed on the show and now they're watching me and judging me eat and so that has actually been a struggle even still to this day like I am mindful of is there anybody like watching me eat right now it's really messed up but when you're at such a young age and that happens to you, like, what else do you expect to happen? In the 20 years since the show aired, Kenya says she's had women come up to her and tell her that the body shaming she experienced impacted them too. There are so many women that watched me go through what I went through and develop their own negative relationship with their bodies from watching that. Kenya told me after she left the show, she lost the few pounds she'd gained on the show and then some. But she was told she was still not skinny enough by agencies. So there was some truth in what Tyra was saying about the fashion industry's extreme standards. But on a show that took great liberties with reality when it came to photo shoots, runways, and even awarding the best models, why did they choose body shaming as the true representation to cling to? It was a decision that planted the seeds of dysmorphia and disordered eating in their contestants. But there were contestants who were cast on ANTM who were already battling eating disorders, and ANTM exploited their health for a storyline. We'll get into that after the break. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppie. Lucy Leppie has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must-listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, sir. Are you not eating anything, Cassie? I'm just so good. Are you not eating anything? Cassie just wouldn't eat very much at dinner. On cycle three, a contestant named Cassie Grisham was suspected of having an eating disorder by the other girls. It was a storyline A&TM had explored before with Elise on cycle one. Like Elise, Cassie didn't seem to eat much, and the other contestants started to notice her frequent trips to the bathroom. Except, unlike Elise, Cassie pretty much admitted to having a problem. If I didn't want to be a model, I would eat whatever I wanted to and not worry about it. Later that episode, during a photo shoot, Cassie confided in a fellow contestant named Amanda. She confirmed that she was indeed battling an eating disorder. Don't go in there. I feel very sick in my stomach. Smells like puke. Cassie informed Amanda that she was bulimic. Amanda told somebody, and next to you know, everybody knows, of course. Amanda told another contestant, and the word spread. By mid-episode, all the girls knew Cassie had bulimia. It became a major topic of discussion at the photo shoot. It's a disorder, so it's not fine. It's going to eat her alive. She's like, that's such a huge secret, you know? Like, anybody who does that must have a horrible insight. A bunch of girls got mad at Amanda for spilling Cassie's secret. Amanda is a complete ass for telling Cassie's secret. She plays this role that she's a sweet, nurturing mother. If someone decides to confide in you, why don't you let that be between you and that person? Let me just say, even if Amanda did it to gossip, she did the right thing by telling someone else. Eating disorders are dangerous. They can kill you. By telling the other girls, it put Cassie's eating disorder on the producer's radar. Three episodes later, Tyra made a surprise visit to the house and brought two guests, a plus-size model named Kate Dillon and a nutritionist. All righty, so today I'm going to be talking about the modeling industry in terms of eating, body image, and the pressures to have to fit into a certain mold. I have a friend of mine. Her name is Kate Dillon. Kate and I used to model in Los Angeles and in Paris, and she's one of the top plus-sized models in the industry. Kate Dillon started out as a straight-sized model. She was there that day to talk about eating disorders, something she had experience with. In order to be a skinny model, you have to be skinny. And for me, it was really, really difficult. I actually had an eating disorder. I'd go days without eating or just maybe eating, you know, an apple or something like that. And I couldn't stay in the business as I was. I was unhealthy. I was miserable. And I ended up quitting the business. I gained like 50 pounds and ended up returning, but as a plus size model. This might not be the right career for any of you. If it's not the right career for you, don't try to manipulate yourself at any cost to fit into it. After Kate spoke about her experience, the nutritionist talked to the contestants about healthy eating. For over 15 years, I've been working with models, helping them to manage their weight. It's all about balancing, moderation, and consistency. When the talk was over, Cassie asked to speak with Tyra, Kate, and the nutritionist alone. If I want to be a model, I feel like I should be skinny. Cassie wasn't in the competition as a plus-size model, and she made it clear she wasn't interested in pursuing that. Cassie was already thin, but she was willing to go to extreme lengths to be skinnier. Do you ever feel that it gets out of control and then you do a whole guilt head trip on yourself? I have had several times where I've thrown up in the past, but I never considered myself bulimic because I didn't throw up after every meal and I would just do it at night if I thought I ate too much and I shouldn't go to bed with it in my stomach. I get nervous when I hear that you've thrown up. Did you ever talk to anybody about that? Mm-mm. Maybe we should explore having you talk to somebody only because it could really spiral out of control. Especially in this environment with the pressure and the critique. It sounds to me like it was already out of control. Cassie believed she was beyond help. I don't feel like I can talk to someone and they will know how I feel. You can tell me I shouldn't do that all you want, but if I feel like I'm still going to do it, I'm never going to be helped. After the chat, all the girls were called back in for a healthy lunch. Salad, fruit, and grilled chicken. Cassie skipped lunch to call her boyfriend. CJ. What's up? I think they want me to go to a counselor. Why? For you know what. They know? Mm-hmm. How? I had to tell them. If I'm feeling that I'm happy and I'm doing fine and this is making me happy by doing this, then that's all that matters to me. Cassie saying you-know-what to her boyfriend seemed to confirm that her eating disorder was an open secret in her life. Although Cassie said it was making her happy, everyone, including the contestants and the judges, could tell she was miserable. Cassie didn't seem to have the language for it yet, but she was in crisis, and her telling Amanda and then asking for a one-on-one with Tyra, Kate Dillon, and the nutritionist was a cry for help. ANTM answered that cry with body shaming. Cassie wasn't sent to a trained professional for help. She was sent on some go-sees. On the following episode, the models spent the day going to castings where they met with designers, tried on clothes, and showed off their runway walks. More than one designer said something negative about Cassie's body, but designer Mark Bauer was particularly cruel. I think that your thighs are a little big for this dress. I'm going to have you walk in it with the zipper open. I think the biggest concern with Cassie for me was the size of her hips. I just want to measure your thighs just to see where we're at. Normally we like about no more than 35. I think I'm right at the... We're at 39. Okay. I prefer a smaller hip. This is so hard to listen to, knowing that Cassie was battling an eating disorder. On that episode, Cassie was eliminated. She wasn't sent home because she needed to get help, or at least that's not the reason the judges gave. Cassie was sent home because the judges questioned if she wanted to be in the competition. They said she didn't have any life behind her eyes and her photos. It's probably kind of hard to look alive when you're starving. Cassie admitted to having an eating disorder an entire four weeks before she was eliminated. The moment she told Amanda should have been the signal to producers to take a break from their regular format. It was time for a very special episode. Cassie's struggle was an opportunity for ANTM to send the message that eating disorders, no matter how prevalent they are in the modeling industry, are not okay. They should have sent Cassie home right away to get some real help. For me, Cassie's storyline is even more disturbing knowing that ANTM did extensive psyche vows on all the contestants. ANTM producers more than likely knew about Cassie's bulimia before they cast her. It's possible they brought her onto the show just so they could exploit her for an eating disorder storyline. Cassie's eating disorder wasn't just dangerous for her. It was dangerous for the young women watching at home. Michelle Konstantinovsky is a journalist who's written about body image. I had an eating disorder. I have dealt with it probably more than half my life. That's why so much of my work is informed by that and around that and why I'm so passionate about it. Michelle is actually writing a book about ANTM. She was in college when Cycle 3 aired, and she remembers Cassie's story vividly. The Cassie storyline, that haunts me. And watching it back, it was so sad. The show did her such a disservice. She's basically screaming out for help in the only way she knows how. She's telling them, I throw up, but I don't have an eating disorder. I don't eat much, but I don't have a meeting server. And they're all sitting there listening to her and looking really concerned. And then they bring in the nutritionist. And she's kind of saying, like, we'll just make healthy choices. And then she gives all the models, like, fruit salad. And it's like, well, that's not going to fix the issues that are festering deep within Cassie. She's being met with all these concerned looks. But at the same time, she's being sent on Goseys, where Mark Bauer is measuring her thighs and telling her how unacceptably large they are. Michelle said when she rewatched that scene of Cassie with Mark Bauer years later, she was disturbed to discover that she remembered every line. The second that scene came on I was like oh my God that is etched in my memory Like I knew the next word he was going to say I like I saw that how many years ago And that scene is so horrifying that it lives Red Furry somewhere in my brain Looking back on it, it's hard not to yell at the TV and be like, get her help and put a giant disclaimer on the show that you are only reinforcing the problem by keeping her here. How do you think Cassie felt when she was back at home and watched the episode air alongside the rest of the country? A&T and producers may have thought they were shedding light on an issue that affects a lot of models by keeping Cassie on the show. But they also sent her on a go-see with a designer who insulted her. And producers chose to air that comment before eliminating Cassie. There's so many mixed messages, so many conflicting, contradictory things going on. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to being a woman in a body is horrific. Like, it's just, there's just no winning in it at all. That message that women can't win because there's always something wrong with our bodies, something to nitpick, something to fix, wasn't a message ANTM invented. It was in the larger culture. Tyra came up as a model in the heroin chic era of the 90s. At the time, anything over a size two was seen as too fat for the runway. And Tyra internalized those messages. By the time she created ANTM, that thinking wasn't just in the fashion world. It had spilled over to pop culture. The early 2000s was brutal on women's bodies. Here's Perez Hilton. Just kidding. He was actually a big part of the problem. Even after she took a step back from modeling, Tyra Banks herself was the target of fat shaving. By 2007, she was hosting A&TM and her own talk show. She didn't have to stress about her weight as much and the impossible standards of the modeling industry. Around that time, a paparazzi photo of Tyra at the beach in a brown one-piece swimsuit surfaced. At the time, Tyra was about a size 8 or 10. But that photo made its way to all the tabloids with some really hurtful headlines like Fat Tyra and America's Next Top Waddle. Tyra addressed the body shaming head-on in a segment on her talk show. She wore the same swimsuit she was wearing in the paparazzi photo. I have something to say. To all of you that have something nasty to say about me or other women that are built like me, piss my fat ass! Tyra said she created A&M to celebrate women's bodies, to empower women and let them know that all shapes and sizes are beautiful. She did that because she knew what it was like to be shamed for not being a size two. But that message did not always translate to A&TM. Jess Sims writes about health and body positivity. And she remembers seeing that moment on Tyra's talk show and feeling like it was a little hypocritical. How she and her stat and her judges to meet the girls can all come down to what's right for me is not right for you. Tyra didn't want people to talk negatively about her body, but that didn't stop her and the judges from talking about other people's bodies on ANTM. I want to be treated well. I want people to not comment on my body. I felt like I was a task. I felt, I felt, but not wanting to make any institutional changes. Even after Tyra herself was picked apart in the tabloids, ANTM continued to pick apart their contestants, all while saying they were inclusive. The show always cast a plus-size model. And for many of us, especially during the early seasons, ANTM was our introduction to the very idea of plus-size modeling. But for most of those years, America's Next Top Model also reinforced the message that there was no place in the world of high fashion for plus-size girls. After the break, we'll get into ANTM's treatment of its plus-size contestants and talk about how the show failed to deliver on Tyra's alleged mission. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt the case of Lucy Letby we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was no voicing of any skepticism or doubt it'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong listen to Doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, This episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun. Tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is how Tyra kicked off A&TM Cycle 24, the show's final season. America's Next Top Model has changed the definition of beauty and empowered women when they needed it the most. I've been judged for my shape and size. I felt shameful about my body, but I define myself. I can do anything. We celebrate the beauty in all of us. All shapes, all sizes, and all colors. Top Model is my baby, and the fight continues to show you that you are beautiful. By A&T M's final season, the show had rebranded itself as a champion of body positivity. They'd done away with age requirements. They had short models, and there was more than one plus-size model. Now they were calling them curvy models. Plus-size supermodel Ashley Graham even joined the panel of judges. A&T M adapted to the changing world around it. Body shaming was out, and body positivity was in. Tyra might have changed her tune, but the longtime viewers knew the truth. Body shaming was Tyra's co-star. Cycle 10's Whitney Thompson is the only plus-size model to ever win A&TM. America's next top model is... Whitney! You're the first girl with some booty to win America's Next Top Model. And actually the correct term is full-figured model. This should not be called plus size or full-figured. This should just be called beautiful. I honestly think the girls will look up to me and say, I can do that, you know, I can be that. I don't have to, you know, starve. I don't have to have plastic surgery. I could really be like that. I could be on that billboard. I could be on that magazine cover. Why? Why? Because I'm beautiful, you know, from the inside out. I have breasts and I have hips and I have a butt and I am so proud of those things. I am here. I am me. And I'm not going to change myself. Even after A&TM rebranded itself as a leader in the body positive movement, they never awarded the title to another plus size model. And they never did a plus size season. There was a short model season, a British season, three co-ed seasons, a college season, but never a plus-size season. Sarah Hartshorn competed as a plus-size model on the cycle before Whitney Thompson, cycle nine. For Sarah, being labeled plus-size was complicated because although she didn't talk about it much on ANTM, she'd battled body dysmorphia and eating disorders since she was a preteen. I was given this platform and be like, fight for plus-size girls. And I was like, I hate that I'm plus-size because I bought into the myth that most American girls, especially at the time bought into, which is that we were supposed to look like models, right? And if you don't, that is a moral failing on your part. That's what I believed at the time. Sarah didn't even enter the competition thinking of herself as plus size. She just knew she wasn't as skinny as the other models. I knew I wasn't a size zero or a size two, which is what's called straight size modeling, or like when you think of a model that's a typical model is to size double zero, technically to four. And I knew that I wasn't that, but I didn't know what that meant. Farrah was probably a size eight at the time. She's really tall, 5'10". Most people would consider her to be slim or average sized in the real world. But in the modeling world, she was plus size. Farrah became the face of that conflict on her season. I think looking at me and then calling me plus size made people feel some type of way. I think A&TM cast Sarah so they can make a story out of her in-between body type. And so they were like, OK, let's exploit that. She's too thin to be plus size. And they wanted to have that be the angle because I think it was just painful to admit that someone as thin looking as I was, was in fact easily a plus size model. A plus size model and a plus size person are not the same thing. And I think I made people sort of acknowledge that and it made them very uncomfortable. At the time, plus size models usually started around a size six or eight. and in catalog modeling, the sizes went up to around an 18 or 20. A&TM didn't cast plus-size models who were over a size 12 or 14, but Sarah was still on the smaller end of that spectrum. So the judges started telling Sarah she was too small to be plus-size. They planted the idea that Sarah was losing weight on purpose. You seem to be disappearing slightly in front of us. You seem to have lost quite a bit of weight. People have said that, and I haven't been trying to, But people keep mentioning it. We all think so. You know, you have to actually be the size to be a plus size model. Every interview, every elimination. Are you losing weight? Are you trying to lose weight? Why are you losing weight? And I also knew that I was not, in fact, losing weight. And I felt kind of like a dog with a bone that I just wouldn't let that out of my teeth because they kept trying to get me to admit that I was trying to lose weight and that I was losing weight. But I was like, I know the numbers. I look at them every day. I had lost like three pounds over the course of like almost a month. So I was like, I know how tall I am. I know how much I weigh. And I know that that's not enough to make the difference that they're talking about. When Sarah was eliminated from the competition, Tyra sided her body type. Your place in the industry is kind of confusing right now because models are so, so, so skinny or they're plus size. But according to Sarah, the model who went on to become the first plus-size A&T M winner, Whitney Thompson, was the same height and had the same measurements as Sarah. After she was eliminated, Sarah went to look for agency representation. She was told that her body type was perfect for plus-size modeling. So they made this big deal about how I was like too thin to be plus-size. And then when I went to New York and signed with agencies, they were like, no, you're fine. On ANTM, plus-size models were often relegated to being supporting cast, or they were used to prove a point about modeling industry standards, like Sarah. But there's one contestant who got it the worst. She was sidelined, set up to fail, and then used to illustrate how the fashion world mistreated plus-size models. I'm talking about Takara Jones. Takara was a contestant on my favorite season of A&TM, Cycle 3. I told you how much I loved that season's winner, Eva Marcel or Pickford back then. Allow me a brief detour down memory lane. When she entered the competition, Eva already had a short haircut. But her A&TM makeover took it to the next level. They dyed her hair honey blonde, cut it even shorter and tapered it on the sides. At the time, I thought that was the flyest haircut I'd ever seen. There's a photo of Eva and Tyra after her win. In it, Eva has the front of her hair spiked up, with her tapered sides falling into loose natural curls. I printed that picture in the library at school, took it to my hairstylist and said, I need this haircut. I was 17. She promptly told me, Eva and I didn't have the same hair texture, and that if she took my hair that blonde, it would probably fall out. But she assured me she would do her best. Three hours later, I was walking out of that salon with a decently closed version of my favorite top model's haircut. You couldn't tell me nothing. So to say I was rooting for Eva would be an understatement. But a funny thing happened when I rewatched A&TM as an adult. I couldn't figure out why I ever liked Eva. Don't get me wrong. She was fierce, but she was mean. These days, I find myself rooting for Takara. Hi, I'm here, I'm here. I'm Takara, I'm big, black, beautiful, and loving it. You know when you watch true crime shows and they say the victim lit up any room she walked into? And you're like, who is this walking LED lamp? They're talking about people like Takara. She had presence. She was regal, beautiful, outgoing, charismatic, kind, and funny. Takara was also super confident, and she didn't seem to be fazed by standing in a room full of skinny models. I love my skin and I'm working it. I'm hitting 200 in the butt. What? I want to encourage full-figure women to appreciate their body and to know that they're beautiful. Takara was the first plus-size contestant who entered the competition like she had a real chance at winning. Even Janice Dickinson said she could see Takara winning, which is high praise from a woman who spent most of her time calling everyone too fat. Takara was also a fan favorite, and she always seemed to do well at the photo shoots and runways, but her performance never seemed to translate at the judging panel. She was never called out first. ANTM made her look like an average contestant in the competition, but watching it back now she clearly a star Then came the set up I understand yesterday you learned a lot about posing today challenge is all about posing Not only are we going to put you gals in lingerie but we're going to put you in the window of La Perla in front of the whole of New York City. There was a challenge where the models had to go to a fancy lingerie boutique. The contestants were given sexy lingerie to model in the shop window, like real-life moving mannequins. But when it was Takara's turn to get her lingerie, they didn't have anything in her size. And what size are you? I'm a 38 triple D. Oh. Let's see how that fits. La Perla didn't have my size bra on stock and the robe was a medium. But, you know, you have to deal with what you're given. A&TM had all the model's measurements. This was a planned challenge for a major production. Yet, La Perla didn't have anything in stock that would fit Takara. So while all the other girls got to wear silk and lace bras and panties with interesting colors and textures, Takara had to wear an ill-fitting black satin robe. And she was the only one in a robe. It looked like the robe a model would wear around set to cover the actual clothing she was modeling. When it was her time at the shop window, Takara had to pose alongside two other contestants in their cute lingerie while people on the street walked by and stared. You could tell Takara was struggling to stay positive. When the challenge was over, each model was critiqued on their performance. Here's what the judge told Takara. Takara. Obviously, you have a sense of humor, but I didn't see any of it in the window. Work on bringing some of your natural charm into your modeling. Putting Takara in a matronly, ill-fitting robe was an obvious disadvantage. And it's hard to keep your spirits up and joke around when you're being treated unfairly. But I think that's how ANTM wanted it. Because while Takara saw herself as a winner, the producers saw her as a supporting character. The fat friend. Takara was always a cheerleader for the other models. She was there boosting their confidence. When another contestant, Kelly, started doubting her looks because of the judges' critiques, Takara was the one who gave her a pep talk. Takara was always a shoulder to cry on, but she was rarely the main focus of an episode. It's a character trope we see a lot in scripted TV shows and movies. The fat, bubbly girl with a great personality whose storyline always revolved around her skinnier friend. It also seemed like Takara's other purpose on the show was to be an example of the second-class treatment plus-size models received in the industry. There was a particular photo shoot that seemed to be Takara's breaking point. Today you're going to be doing a photo shoot with a twist. You'll be doing two shots dressed up as two extremely opposite personas. Then we'll put the two images together into one photograph. The photo shoot was for Mustang. The models had to pose with the car as their two alter egos. One was meant to be glamorous and the other super edgy. One model was a rich socialite and a punk rock rebel. Another was a sweet, innocent virgin and a dominatrix. One girl's edgy alter ego was an Amazonian woman. They put her in a headdress. When it was Takara's turn, she was assigned a Hollywood starlet and, no lie, the parking lot attendant. They wanted her to hand the keys to her glamorous alter ego self. While the other girls got body paint, tailored suits, headdresses and face masks, they put Takara in an orange button up shirt and khaki pants. And on top of all that, when it came time for Takara to go to wardrobe, wouldn't you know it? The same thing that happened at La Perla happened again. What size did you tell me you are a 12 or is it really a 14? I mean, I look like I work out at Bowling Alley. No, you don't. I don't know why all the girls were so nice looking, and here I am looking like I work at Home Depot. You have to understand, too, Takara, if you were to do catalogs, you know, for plus-size models and stuff like that. This is high fashion. This is not a catalog. I gotta prove myself to the high fashion. ANTM was allegedly preparing the contestants to be high fashion models, and Takara was supposed to have a fair shake in the competition. Yet the stylist was talking to her about catalog modeling. That's how a lot of plus-size models made a living. Despite Tyra's mission to expand the definition of beauty, ANTM was basically saying, there's no way Takara will ever be a top model, so why even pretend in this competition? The stylist certainly had Takara's measurements before she stepped on set. It was her job to find looks that fit Takara, but instead she was extremely rude to Takara. She body shamed her and then blamed her for not being a size two. Do you think that I'm going to be able to get a rack like this loaded with clothes in your size? You can't find something in my size, so I'm supposed to feel everything as a negative. I don't think that you realize how this whole modeling thing works. Then, when she was helping Takara get dressed, the stylist literally pinched her with a pen. There's like no appreciation. Damn it. Oh, son. All right, you got pinched. Oh, my God. I know. Oh my God. Let me see. The stylists seem to be singling Takara out. Now, if this were a real photo shoot, you better believe the stylists would have the right size clothes for the models. That's literally their job. But ANTM wanted to make a point. Plus size models faced difficult hurdles. They weren't always treated fairly or with respect in the fat phobic industry. And while this might have been true, they used Takara, a real person who thought she had a shot at winning, to make their point. When Takara stepped on set, dressed like a parking lot attendant, after watching all the other girls get to be punk rock rebels in Amazonian Warriors, she was crushed. Takara, who was usually so full of life, couldn't bring it in that photo shoot. She's opening the door for the glamorous one because look at her, she's a parking attendant. I want to feel your pain. I want to feel your longing. I just wanted to read a little more in your eyes because honestly, your weakest point in your photo are your eyes. And even when she changed into her glamorous starlit look, the stylist continued to insult Takara. She implied that Takara's breasts were too big instead of taking accountability for finding clothes that were too small. Maybe some tape. Can you move it? We're going to have to really severely strap them down. I've been disappointed with myself. I allowed other people to take my energy, that they would have made me feel so bad and ashamed. The hardest part about watching that scene is that it's so clear A&TM set Takara up to fail. But in that moment, Takara blamed herself. I don't think I did a very good job. I should have kept a positive attitude. Takara was finally the main focus of an episode. That's because A&TM had broken her spirit. And I think that was by design. She should make me feel like that, you know. Let's put everybody else's hat on. And I know I can prepare myself to everybody else, but damn. Slacks and skirts and dresses. I think it's just hard because I'm steady. Just trying to be so grateful. Just be so grateful, but it hurts. On the following episode, Takara was eliminated. The judges said she'd lost her spark. Tyra Banks likes to think of herself as someone who helped carve out a place in the industry for plus-size models. And in some ways, A&TM did. But the way they treated the plus-size models on the show also crushed the dreams of their viewers. Stephanie Yeboah is a writer and plus-size model. She remembers seeing how A&TM treated Takara when she was a teenager. It was one of the reasons why she thought she couldn't pursue modeling. With me watching it at the time, I would probably say I was like a size 16 to 18. And I remember I would watch some cycles and I would feel this sense of, oh, well, I can't get into plus size modeling and I can't get into modeling full stop because America's Next Top Model is probably representative of modeling. agencies worldwide. And so if we're getting a glimpse into what modeling agencies could be like, then there's no point in me trying to get my foot in the door or maybe feel good about myself. When I was watching the show as a teenager, I didn't think ANTM's messages about bodies and weight had a real effect on me. I didn't want to be a model and I didn't want to be as thin as the girls on the show. It wasn't until I rewatched ANTM for this podcast that I realized it had affected me. Because why wasn't I rooting for Takara? She had everything going for her. Beauty, personality, and talent. I liked Takara, but I didn't see her as a winner. I saw her as a supporting character. Because while skinny models like Eva were set up to win, plus size models were set up to be sidelined. They were there to make a point and then go home. I rooted for Eva and got my hair cut like her because I wanted to identify with the winner, not her fat friend. That realization makes me feel a little sad and ashamed. What makes it even worse is that Takara is so clearly that girl. Now, don't get me wrong. This isn't a pity party for Takara. After she left the show, Takara became a working model. Despite A&TM making it seem as though there wasn't a place for her in the industry, Takara carved out a place. She even had a spread in Vogue Italia. I'd say she's one of the first well-known plus-size black models. Takara is still one of A&T M's most successful alums. And she herself says she's grateful for the platform A&T M gave her. But it's clear, on the show, she was never set up to win. And that makes me wonder about Tyra's so-called mission to showcase diverse beauty and champion body positivity. In recent interviews, when Tyra was asked about ANTM's contradicting messages, this is what she said. I was this like unique beauty crusader. I was also this person trying to get these models work. And I think at times they battled because I wanted them to get work. But even more important to me was being a beauty crusader. And so what ends up happening is that it's a clash, right? I'm saying, oh, I want all these unique beauties, but you need to change that. and you need to change that because I have these agents in the background saying, yeah, you want us to sign these girls, but she needs to change this and she needs to change that. In hindsight, I should have still been that beauty crusader that is my heart and soul and why I started this show. And so that was like my big lesson and I didn't need social media to tell me that. I realized that on my own. I've said this on the podcast a lot, but almost none of A&TM's contestants became top models. Even the very thin models who had all the right measurements. A surprising number of them couldn't even find work because the industry didn't see them as real models. A&TM took a lot of artistic liberties to make the show entertaining. But calling the contestants fat is where A&TM decided to keep it real. Tyra could have just leaned into her so-called unique beauty crusade. At least then she'd be known for that, not for sending the message to millions of young women watching that there was something wrong with their bodies. I asked Jess Sims, one of the writers you heard from earlier, what she thought about ANTM's choice to stick to body shaming. The only conclusion I could come to really is that that was our purpose for good TV, that they had to have somebody that they could criticize this way. They had to have somebody who could serve as a punching bag because they needed that extra level of toxicity in order to have audiences tune in. Remember what Tyra's agent told her when she came up with the idea for A&TM? He said no one would watch the show because models weren't relatable. They weren't sympathetic. But he didn't understand the appeal of a show like America's Next Top Model. A lot of women didn't tune in because they wanted to relate. They tuned in because for an hour every week, they got free reign to scrutinize other women's bodies. It felt good to see women who thought they were beautiful be knocked down a pig, at least while they were watching the show. It's the oldest trick in the book. Being mean to someone else makes you feel better. For a moment. But after the episode ended and those women and girls got ready for bed, I don't think they were left feeling inspired by Tyra's unique beauty crusade. I think they squeezed their own thighs and arms, looked in the mirror, and went to bed feeling a bit worse about themselves. If you or someone you know is struggling with disordered eating, help is available. call NIDA, the National Eating Disorder Association, at 800-931-2237, or text NIDA to 741-741. On the next and final episode, we look at ANTM and Tyra's legacy and try to answer the question, is Tyra Banks a reality TV villain? it's just it's such an unfair industry they're making it all the money still just laughing all the way to the bank and we don't get anything like nothing like it's just gosh throw me a thousand dollars per year you know what i mean give me a thousand i'll take it i mean give me something like it's so insulting thanks for listening to the curse of america's next top model. We're grateful for your support. We'd love for you to really show your support by subscribing to our show on Apple podcast. Don't forget to give us a five-star review. If you love the show, tell your group chat, your friends, your mama to check us out. And if you don't, maybe keep that one to yourself. The Curse of America's Next Top Model is a production of Glass Podcast, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcast. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass. Hosted and senior produced by me, Bridget Armstrong. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Associate producers are Alaysha Key, Kristen Melchiori, and Curry Richmond. Consulting producers on this podcast are Oliver Twixt and Kate Taylor. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing on this episode by Matt DelVecchio, Andrew Calloway, and Tanner Robbins. The Curse of America's Next Top Model theme was composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyMusic. Special thanks to everyone we interviewed, especially the former contestants. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also check out the atglasspodcast Instagram for Curse of America's Next Top Model behind-the-scenes content. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and If You Can Hear Me is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people, some have answers. Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Joe Interstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today, I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change. Dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.