SoCon Edition: CLEAN Slate, New STAKES with Ben Vander Wal

This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human. The conference slate of games is set to begin. Is your team ready for the chaos? So con fast break starts now. All right, happy holidays to everybody as we get ready for the excitement of conference play in the Southern Conference, a little bit different setup here as we are doing some remote connection. Mr. Darren Angel as always joining us, but out and about enjoying some family time are and are trying to get some relaxation. And again, sometimes Darren, I know this time of year you might not be able to relax. No, I'm trying, but we've got both both our daughters birthdays in December. You know, we're traveling here from where I'm joining you guys from sunny, but very frigid St. Louis has dropped 70 degrees in a span of 12 hours, but can't get away from hoops without watching some good mid major basketball in the A10 with the St. Louis University the other day. So can't get away from the ball, but trying to try to relax as best I can. Yes, no, I love it. And obviously the excitement of Southern Conference, conference games getting ready to start and actually starting tonight, ETSU at the Citadel, tipping off the 106 season in the Socon as far as basketball and that tip off is at 6pm. So I know there's a lot of excitement and now this will be an opportunity for one team, at least whoever gets the win tonight, they'll hold that lead for 24 hours at least there atop of the standings in the conference games. And so I know a lot of people are excited about that. And so one of the things though that I think we're really excited about is also seeing how these teams are going to measure up against each other relative to the team in the conference because it's one thing when you're looking at the non-conference schedule there and trying to determine where this team is going to be, how this player is going to perform. But it really comes down to conference play where you can get a true measurement and true evaluation of these teams. No, you're absolutely right because we talk about Western Carolina, for example. According to the net, they've played the 23rd toughest schedule in the country and they're sitting at 4 and 7. When you pair them up with an opponent in the Southern Conference, that hopefully prepares them to put themselves in a different situation and be as well prepared as they can. But like you said, it's really hard to fully evaluate them as compared to somebody else in the league that maybe hasn't played as good of a schedule or frankly that has. Now is really the time like you mentioned where we get to see kind of how things are going to shake out and just kind of how good each team is and how they match up with Southern Conference opponents because another thing that is probably worth discussing is the Southern Conference has a pretty interesting style of play or a style of play that's different than what some of these teams have faced out of conference and much more guard-oriented league, a lot of shooting, etc. So yeah, it's really exciting to kind of see now, hey, how does everybody match up? Let's go. Of course, let's do this. Yeah, no, I agree a thousand percent and a lot of teams, they're going to either showcase that they're contenders or we're going to find out that they're pretenders and there's going to be certain teams that have more to prove when you look at like a UNCG, are they going to be a team that can get things going in conference play and silence some of the doubters in terms of Mike Jones, he's not having as team that's playing connected on the defensive side, the defensive unit is not really playing that well, Furman with a five game winning streak, can they continue that stellar play heading into conference action and that's a big game tomorrow against Mercer at noon. So we'll talk about that and very excited because we're going to be talking with Mr. Ben Vander Waal, senior forward there for the Furman Paladins. He will be able to join us. So make sure you stay tuned right here and also just go ahead and hit the subscribe and follow button. It's so easy right there on YouTube and then you're not going to miss any of the action. So there on Apple podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, make sure you subscribe because it doesn't cost you anything. It's all free. It just helps us out. So make sure you hit that subscribe button, but we're excited to be able to talk to Mr. Ben Vander Waal coming up. All right. Also, Darren, one of the things that we do need to maybe step back in a little bit of history and let's go back to the beginning of the season and revisit the preseason poll because now everybody's clean slate. Zero zero. But when we looked at the preseason poll, Chattanooga, number one, Furman, number two, Samford, followed by ETSU, UNCG sitting there in that fifth spot preseason, VMI at number six. And obviously a lot of excitement for VMI heading into the season, how they finished the season there in Asheville and Ricky Bradley, Jr. at the preseason player of the year, but he's MIA. Now the reports are according to Andrew Wilson that he's expected to be back for a conference play and that they open there at home against Samford. So we'll see how that plays out. But you've also got Western Carolina at seven, Mercer at eight, Wofford at number nine. And we've already talked about it, Darren. That might be the biggest surprise in the Southern Conference right now, what Kevin Giltner has been able to do, the head coach there for Wofford. And then the Citadel at number 10. And knowing that we're seeing some things that Citadel is struggling right now, you know, can they pull some pieces together? And again, tonight ETSU rolls into town and Brooks Savage team has been on a tear in the non-conference playing very efficiently on the offense and defensive side. And so we'll talk about that matchup. But that's how the preseason poll looks right now. But when you look at the standings, it's Furman, ETSU, Mercer and Wofford at top of the standings. Again, it's non-conference, but it is giving you an indication of what teams are putting things together as we head into conference play. No, certainly it is because the reality is, is you can say all you want about different opponents, strength of schedule, this and that. It's not often that you see a team that comes into conference sitting at, you know, four and eight or four and nine or three and 10. And all of a sudden the flip, the switch flips and they end up winning the league or competing for the league. So to your point, you know, the teams that have had success so far, unless something crazy happens, those are likely the teams that are going to kind of continue down that path. And so there's certainly something to be said about where these, where these teams stand. And, you know, I know we'll talk about it probably a little bit more in the episode, but you know, you talk about Mercer and Wofford sitting there tied at eight and five, you know, arguably, you know, there's three teams there at eight and five. So you can make the argument, you know, they're sitting there in second, obviously. Those two teams in particular, what a surprise. It great for the league, right? Because I think you've got some really, really good basketball played on the upper end of this league, which is usually the case. But I think they're, you know, they're four teams here that, I mean, they're playing good basketball right now. Make no mistake about it. Yeah. When you look at those four teams as we're talking about ETSU, Furman, Wofford and Mercer. And Brian, I want you to put up this graphic because this is very interesting as I'm a stats guy. So I love diving into the stats and looking at various reasons why certain teams are playing a certain way. And you can't go off of just stats, but it does give you some context and starts helping develop the story. So we're analyzing the relationship between points in the paint and fast break points. And you look at that top right quadrant, the penthouse quadrant, so to speak, right there. These are teams that are leading efficiently because they can score in the paint and they can also score in transition. And that is oh, so important. And the teams that can do that best, they typically are going to have more success, Darren, because this is a way that you can be efficient. Obviously fast break points. We know how critical those are because you need to be able to score without an organized defense out there. And fast break is how you do that transition. Then if you can have that opportunity of scoring inside the paint, then that makes the defense shrink the rotating. It's going to create open lanes for drives to the basket or it's going to even open up opportunities out there on the perimeter. And if you can have some of those gravity type of guys, those gravity players that they bring in the defense there and get them off of their assignments out on the perimeter, that's what's going to open things up. We can see these four teams, Mercer, Wofford and Furman and ETSU, they've been able to showcase they can do both scoring in the paint and getting out in transition. Absolutely. And one of the things that you mentioned there about guys that have forced to be able to get downhill and get to the rim and you look at ETSU in particular, kind of leading the pack there in the points in the paint, points in transitions. When you have guys that can force the gravity downwards and be great straight line drivers and be able to put pressure on the rim, obviously, if they're able to score, you're going to shoot a higher percentage at the rim. But also, as you mentioned, you start getting teams and rotations at that point. And if you can drive and spray it out, now you start getting teams and rotation where you get, if you have some shooting, which the top teams in this league have illustrated already that they can shoot it from deep, but you get your guys that can really shoot it easier to two feet ready to go, set shots, or you create another driving opportunity. Right. And so when you start to get these teams and rotate, defenses and rotations, it starts to make offense that much easier. And as you mentioned, I don't think it's a mistake that those four teams at the top that you mentioned are the four teams that are doing it best. Because again, as you said, right, if you're scoring it in transition and you're scoring it and it's scoring it at a high level in the paint, guess what? You're going to be shooting a pretty effective and efficient shooting field goal percentage. And and so, you know, I think that's that's not really any secret recipe or secret sauce. But, you know, I think those four teams in particular have really done a good job offensively. And, you know, what's been interesting to me, too, is is the amount of points in transition that ETSU has gotten. And I think a lot what a lot of that says is they're generating turnovers and they're they're guarding, right? And a lot of that stuff is generated off turnovers, not necessarily off misses and trying to get out and go as fast as you can. I think a lot of that is is off a generated off turnovers, which is, you know, if if if Brooks Savage's teams are doing that, that's that's scary with with some of the offensive firepower that they seem to have on that roster this year. No question. And part of that is the roster that he's been able to build there at ETSU. And you talk about it from a defensive standpoint. Yeah, they lead the league in blocks and steals. So that's a pretty easy occasion to they are creating some of those turnovers and getting out in transition. And then you look at Furman, when you've got a Cooper Bowser and you've got a Charles Johnston on the front court and, you know, Charles Johnson can step out and he can hit a three in transition. But Ace of Thomas has been the guy that all of a sudden has opened things up significantly for Furman, how hot he's been shooting from the outside. But you also got Alex Wilkins that you can't sleep on him because he can take you to the rim and he can also come out in transition and knock down the three point shot. Absolutely. And I think, look, that that is the best front court duo with Johnston and Bowser, I think, in the league. And, you know, Johnston gives you a lot of different options because he he can score it inside. But as you mentioned, he can step out and knock down that three at a high clip. And so he presents a really interesting match up. And then Cooper Bowser, they've done a great job getting him in in ball screen action and actions where he can roll hard to the rim for easy lobs or to minimum easy touches. You know, and so he's leading the country. I think you mentioned this last episode, he's leading the country in field goal percentage. And then you throw in Ace of Thomas with his ability to stretch the floor. You know, that that that is a formidable, formidable group. And then the last piece there, you mentioned Alex Wilkins. Man, we've talked about it before. This guy, like he gets downhill and he just makes it look easy. He can finish in traffic. His deceleration ability is very, very high level in terms of him still maintaining body control, getting it to get into the rim. And so, yeah, I mean, I can't say enough about how well Furman has done over this five game winning streak of being able to score efficiently at the rim and transition. And we're going to ask Ben Vander Waal about Alex Wilkins. I want to get some of his insights when he first realized how good Alex Wilkins could be or is. And so definitely looking forward to talking with Ben. And now also you look at Mercer and Baraka Kojai and Armani Mighty. And then you've got Quentin Perkins, the second perimeter, and Zaire Williams. So you've got some guys. And again, you're talking about the pick and roll and the ball screen action. Kojai and Mighty, they are doing it at a high clip. And that's why this game tomorrow, Mercer and Furman. Man, that is top notch to have an opening game for both of those teams against each other right now. I agree. And it's funny when we're looking at the preseason schedule, would we have would we have considered circling this game as maybe being one of the best conference games of the of the season? Probably not. But we are now. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I mean, there's there's certainly other arguments to be made. But as of December 30th, 2025, like the two best teams in the league may be playing against each other tomorrow. Opening up again. Lot of room for conversation there. I'm not saying that. But certainly, certainly two of the top four teams in the league are squaring off tomorrow night. And look, it's a fun matchup because it's two teams that like to get up and run and they want to play. And it's two teams that have really strong inside, outside presence. They can they can they can beat you up inside if they need to. And they've been good on the glass, but they also have guys that can shoot it. And look, they're going to get up and go both teams. So you you have to be able to get back and set your defense. And you have to kind of figure out and do you want to hit the how hard you want to hit the offensive glass, because we know we got to get back in transition. And obviously, tip off for Southern Conference is tonight, ETSU in the Citadel. But we're all excited that we might be saying that things are tipping off tomorrow. But that's tipping off tomorrow for both of those teams. And there's some other games that we're going to talk about as well. All right, real quick, though, the net rankings. Let's take a look at the net rankings as of right now, December the 30th. Mercer, they're leading the conference at 134 ETSU at 145. Furman, 155. Wofford, 211. Sanford at 256. Western Carolina at 279. And that's interesting what you talked about the strength of schedule number 23 in the country there. And so Western Carolina has played some difficult games and even had three quad one games. Now, obviously they lost those, but that just showcases, you know, that they did have a tough non-conference schedule and be interesting to see how that will help them come conference play. And then you've got Chattanooga 281 UNCG. Again, the surprise at 302 VMI at 344 and the Citadel at 357. And also Mercer, their strength of schedule is 55 is 55th in the country, I should say. And so yeah, they've had a tough schedule also, but they've been able to be very competitive in some of these games against Washington state. They're took them down to the wire. Clemson took them down to the wire. So Mercer is definitely a team. That's why, again, I know we're excited to see how that's going to play out, come conference play. All right. Other games in the Southern Conference that we're looking at again, obviously, as we mentioned, ETSU and Citadel tonight, Mercer, Furman. And then also you've got Wofford at Western Carolina. And I know this one's interesting because Wofford and their run right now, what they've been able to do. And obviously Kevin Giltner, we've talked about it, but going on the road, Western Carolina, that's not the easiest place to play. I know there might not be a lot of fans there, but it is somewhat of a challenge for whatever reason that seems to be a place where teams have some confidence going into it and then walk away with a loss. Yeah. Point. There's perfect example loss. The Furman three years ago go in there on New Year's Eve and we lose to your point. That's the only gym I have. I have zero wins in as a Southern Conference assistant coach. Never got to win a Callaway. But yeah, it is a sneaky, it's a sneaky, tough place to play. And I think it's a really interesting test for both teams, right? Because I do think I'm still very intrigued with what Western Carolina can be because I do think they've got three guys that we talked about before. I think they've got three guys that can be really dangerous altogether or can be really dangerous on any given night that are going to give them enough firepower and they played a really tough schedule. So, you know, I am very curious to see what that team looks like. And then the flip side is we've got a Wofford team that has surprised all of us. And has played really well and has looked all of the part of being, you know, an upper echelon team in the league so far. You know, can they go on the road on New Year's Eve where it is probably going to be a pretty sparse crowd and can you go in there and get an early road win? So I am excited about that as well. Yes. All right. Other games on New Year's Day, Samford at VMI. We talked about will we see Ricky Bradley, Jr. That's the big question. And can Samford, can they make that trip to Lexington and get a victory? Chattanooga at UNCG. We're going to start learning some things about these teams. And then also on January the 3rd, Chattanooga then travels to VMI. Wofford at the Citadel. Samford at UNCG. Western Carolina travels down to Greenville to take on the firm in Paladins. And then Mercer, we talked about their schedule. It only gets tougher because then they go on the road at ETSU after their game against Furman. Yeah. So there's four teams that open the conference slate of games on the road. You've got Chattanooga at UNCG and VMI. Mercer at Furman and then followed at ETSU. Samford at VMI and then travels to UNCG and then Wofford travels to Colway, as we talked about against Western Carolina and the Citadel after that. So that's going to be interesting to see which of these four teams can have success early on on the road. Yeah. Look, I mean, some games that if you're going to be competitive and have a chance to win this league, some of those teams that are on the road are in positions that they got, they got to get those, you know, and I'm curious to see how Chatt will start out here because I think they've just they've had some injuries. They've had some stuff to tap into them. They've, you know, the schedule, et cetera. But certainly I don't think where any of us anticipated them being, heading into conference play. So I'm very curious to see how they start their conference laid out. And, you know, you mentioned Mercer, you know, we're obviously on the Mercer bandwagon, but can they get off to a good start in league because you put yourself in an own two hole, I don't care how good you are. You know, it's an uphill battle because the reality is, is that the team that wins the league is probably going to have somewhere between three and five losses and five is certainly on the far end of that. Like that's probably not going to be the case. So if you somehow can't get in a minimum one, one of those, and you put yourself in an own two hole, it's a tough hole to be able to dig out of, unless you can go on a really, on a really good heater at some point in the league. And so definitely a challenge here for a couple of these teams to see, hey, you know, in a minimum, you got to split these. No question about it. And you talk about Chattanooga, obviously, again, the preseason favorite there. And can they get some more production out of a guy who has been performing really well and we didn't get to spotlight him last week because of Christmas week. But Jordan Fries on, he was named the player of the week and he went on an incredible tear. He scored 24 more points in four consecutive games. He had 27 points and nine rebounds in the win against Alabama A&M. And for the week that he won the award, he averaged 23 and a half points per game and six rebounds per game and only had one turnover in 74 minutes of action. That's pretty efficient right there. I'll go and tell you that. That's for certain. But we do have a fresh face that just was named the player of the week in the Southern Conference. And that's Woffords, Jaden Tyler. He's been named the Socon player of the week after he exploded for 24 points in just 16 minutes off the bench in Wofford's win against Union Commonwealth. Five of six from deep and he's shooting 65% from three point range on the season. So it's not a lot of minutes. But when he's out there, it seems all of a sudden he's heating up right now. Yeah. And he's a guy that, you know, I mentioned it in the preview show. I'm curious if this, you know, if this was a potential breakout game for him and in some way shape or form played for a really good program in Chicago, won a state championship, was well coached. You know, is he a guy now that we talk about some of the young guys for for Woffords stepping up early and how they may grow as we get closer to conference season and what sort of impact they could make. Man, if they can add another, another freshman in the mix to be able to give them some significant minutes, only makes them deeper. Yeah, no question about it. But I am a little confused, though. I, I wondered if they were actually going to give a player of the week award because there weren't really many games. And I'm still surprised that it's a freshman that they give it to and Jane Tyler. And this is nothing, does disparage Jane Tyler because, I mean, he's playing really well. But you also have Chase Wotley there. You have Brian Sumter there for Wofford. What about Alex Wilkins? You've got Mario Tatum, Jr. VMI. I mean, you've got some other freshmen that have played extremely well. So it was a little bit of a surprise there that Jane Tyler, but well deserved, though. No, certainly very, very well deserved. Look, he obviously played well, you know, shot it pretty efficiently in just 16 minutes. But I think one of the cool things that you mentioned there, and obviously the point you're trying to make is like, there are a lot of really good freshmen in the league this year, and it's really exciting for the league, I think. And fingers crossed that with this new crazy world that we're in, we get a chance to see these guys for more than just this year, because I think it's a really exciting group of freshmen in the league. And, you know, you mentioned a bunch of those guys. I think you and I would both agree if we are betting. One of those names that you just mentioned, we're going to be highlighting at least on one occasion here as we move forward. That's right. All right. Speaking of moving forward and we'll move from freshman to a senior, an OG of the Southern Conference, Mr. Ben Vanderwall is joining us. So make sure you hit that subscribe button. Again, it's so easy. It doesn't cost you anything. Hit subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcast, YouTube, Apple podcast, Spotify, including the iHeart radio app. All right. Our conversation with Ben Vanderwall. All right. As promised, it is our honor and privilege to bring in Mr. Ben Vanderwall senior forward for the Furman Paladins. And how many times are you excited when you get to hear your name being announced, Ben, and they say six, seven from Elmer, Illinois. Right. All the kids are all the kids are yelling at me about that, man. They all they all love that. I fall for it sometimes, but it's it's definitely it's definitely funny. Oh, I love it. Well, you are the OG of the SoCon. There is no question and obviously OG of the Furman Paladins this season in 2025. And I do have to ask you, though, just so many times we hear the name Ben Vanderwall and the first thing that we hear is the glue guy, the ultimate glue guy in the conference and college basketball. What's your definition of glue guy? What's your definition of glue guy? What does that mean? For me, I think that's just I'm trying to do anything that the team needs really. And whatever guys, you know, whatever can get me out on the floor, it can get me opportunities to help the group. Like glue guy for me is just doing the winning plays, making winning plays, finding opportunities to to do things to set guys up to play their strengths. And because that's ultimately my strength. And when a team gets to their best, it's when you have five guys and 15 guys really all playing to their strengths and doing what they do best. So that's probably what I would say a glue guy is in my eyes. Yeah, there's no question about it. And you're the epitome of that. And that's been from the very beginning, your freshman year there in that 2022 season. And just your memories of what we call that season now, obviously winning the Southern Conference Tournament Championship for the first time in 43 years, Cinderella story there against Virginia in the NCAA tournament. What have you taken away from that season in terms of now, how that has helped you your senior year? Man, absolutely. Like that season brings back such amazing memories for me. And, you know, it's a it's a team and people and a group. I'll never forget for the rest of my life and we'll be bonded for life as brothers, which is kind of a unique and fun thing about it. For me now, obviously as a freshman then and being a senior now, one thing I really take away is the leadership from especially Mike and Slaw and the way that they approached the game. Like they were so mission oriented, like Mike Botwell and Jalen Slawson, all they wanted to do coming back their fifth year was win a championship. And for me, like seeing that from a leadership perspective, like that that that impacted the way they led. Like they didn't lead to necessarily, you know, about themselves. It was all about can we get this group to best? Can we get this player to best? Can we get our team playing best in March? And ultimately, that was what we did once we went through a little adversity in November and December. And, you know, it's it's November was really hard with that team. We lost in games that we shouldn't have lost. And, you know, everybody's kind of freaking out like, what's going on? Why? Why are we losing to Old Dominion by, you know, why we why we lose the Old Dominion? Why we lose in the high point? Like, and now all of a sudden we found a group and found a rotation and found a team that was so focused on winning and, you know, it became we became hard to beat and it was just so mission driven. So from that team, can I take away this mission driven mentality from the leadership? And I think that's what I'm trying to at least bring a little bit into this season. And you're going to make me tear up here thinking about that group, man. That's not that was a really special group, though. And you were a huge part of that, right? So can you tell us a little bit more, Ben, like what you've taken from that group? You mentioned, you know, Jalen Slosson and Mike Bothwell being integral pieces and providing such great leadership to that group. Can you tell us kind of some of the stuff you've learned from them that you've tried to instill in this group? Because obviously this is other than actually this is the youngest group that you've probably been around, regardless of your age, in terms of the amount of freshmen in the program. Tell us a little bit about what you've taken from that group that did such a good job leading and what you've kind of instilled in some of these young guys on this group, because you've gotten some great contributions out of freshmen so far this year. Yeah, I mean, my freshman year, I had a very unique relationship with Slaw, which which helped me a lot. You know, I was kind of going into the season. It wasn't looking like I was going to play a whole lot. And I was kind of fighting the whole red shirt, not red shirt thing. And, you know, Slaw kind of took me under his wing, which was really unique. And and he didn't really have to do that. And he and I were together on the road and every home game we watched film together. And he was really, you know, really wanted to make sure that he brought me along because he knew that I could help the team when I was right. And he made a huge effort to do that. And it's something I'm forever grateful for. And he didn't have to do that. You know, that's that's the player of the year. And that's the reigning defensive player of the year, the year before. And a dude who got drafted and played for the Kings and and the magic and the Pacers. Like, and he was worried about freshman Ben. Like that that that was that was that was very unique and not something you would see across college basketball. And that's really a testament to Jalen. That's a testament to Coach Richie, a testament to this program where there's a huge emphasis on being better together and bringing guys up and elevating people to play that their best. And, you know, we always talk about having role clarity and role definition from coaches, but then also role acceptance from the players. And I think that group, once we got rolling and got it figured out, that group had the best role acceptance of of of any team that I've probably seen because everybody was just so invested in winning. And everybody was just like, man, this might not be the role that I want right now. But like, this is what I'm going to do because this is going to give us the best opportunity to go win three games in March. And then ultimately went a fourth game in March where we had up to head down to Orlando and and beat Virginia. So it was it was it was a fun group. And, you know, Mike, Mike, for me, is somebody where when you think about leadership, like he has his positivity and his leadership, the way he was able to bring out the best in guys like you wanted to play with Mike Bothwell. Like that was just how it was. Like when you played with Mike Bothwell, you were a better player. And because he he made you better because he gave you confidence that like, hey, even if you screw up, like he's going to encourage you and he's going to help you. And like, that's something that I've tried to navigate is now I've stepped into a leadership role is like, man, can I lead like Mike in that aspect? Like, can I be a positive leader in somebody that, you know, and that's and that's something that's a little harder for me. And that's something that I've kind of self diagnosed and people have diagnosed for me as you know, coach Richie's tried to help me through that. And it's like, can I can I try to help guys through positive leadership? And, you know, there was times where Mike would turn up on us. But I mean, I'll never forget this. We were in the the SoCon championship game and it was half time. We were up three. And we obviously they had Jake Stevens, who was, I mean, if he didn't get hurt, he would have been very much contender for player of the year with with Slawson and he was, I mean, he's a heck of a player. And the whole key to that game was ball screen covers because, you know, if we had to help off Stevens, we were going to get cooked. So we needed to have great ball of defense. And Mike came into locker room at halftime and he was like, man, we need to get we need to defend ball screens better. I'm doing it worse than anyone. Like he took the blame himself. And it was like, it was this point where he could have come in and been like, you need to do this better. You need to do this better. But it was like, no, like we need to do this better. I'm doing it the worst of anybody, which probably wasn't even true. But he was like, I'm going to take the blame. And everybody was kind of like, OK, like we need to do this. Like Mike, Mike got us all excited. Like we can we can do this. We just got to defend better. And it helped us a ton in the second half, build that lead. And and that's just an example of many different examples from Mike, where he was able to bring out the best of guys by not not tearing dudes down, but building them up and and taking blame himself even sometimes. That's right. And isn't basketball and sports almost a it's cruel at times because you have that experience winning the conference tournament championship and even oh, so close against that Western Carolina team there in the semifinals. Then we know it was it almost was that was a scary game. And I know you talked about it, how scary it was. But then you get the euphoria that you do win that championship and go on for that magical run. But then last year you lose in the tournament championship against Wofford and there it seemed the last couple of minutes. Furman was in that opportunity to win another championship there. And it's taken away from Wofford. So you experience both sides of the highs and the lows. Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of it's kind of basketball works, man. Like, you know, you feel the pain in Asheville, you feel the joy in Asheville and you can't have one without the other. You know, the reason you reason you feel the joy is because for that group, the year before I was here, they felt the pain of losing in the most heartbreaking fashion in Asheville. For us last year, I mean, I mean, that game could have gone either way. I mean, that was an unbelievable game. I mean, it was probably outside of my freshman year. That was the most enjoyable game I've played in my entire college career in terms of coming out for warmups, 45 minutes for the game. And it's almost packed already. And you've got Furman fans and Wofford fans chanting back and forth. Let's go Furman. Let's go Wofford. Like it was couldn't have been a cooler experience. And like, I mean, that game didn't go the way we wanted. And we didn't defend the way we needed to to win a championship. And we know that. But it's like you can't have the pain or you can't have the joy in Asheville without the pain. And so I think, like that can fuel us a little bit this year. Like, hey, we don't want to feel that pain again. And you see it all across sports is that you feel the joy of winning just from not losing. Yes, no doubt. And obviously, you're on a five game win streak heading into conference play right now and talk about just now. It's the next chapter as we get ready for the conference slate and the excitement heading into this season. May I tell you what, the Southern Conference has maybe the best schedule in all of college basketball. I love so I love so complex. Two games a week, you play everybody. It's not like this whole one team on the only play one time or you only go on the road. Like you play everybody home and away. You know, you play 18 games, you get to go to Asheville. Everybody gets a chance. It's it's a ton of fun. And I love it. And I've got to experience now for four years. And, you know, there's nothing better than getting on a on a on a on a bus after a Wednesday away game and you're checking all the scores as you drive home. Like it's it's it's a ton of fun. So I'm super excited what this group can do. I'm excited to get this thing going. And it's a it's a it's a fun group we have this year. Like you said, it's a young group. But we we really have have grown and it's just fun to see guys kind of coming to themselves and coming to their into their roles. And it's been fun to see guys step up and play different roles. It's it's been a fun year so far. Yeah. And you know, you mentioned kind of talking about guys growing into their roles. You guys played a really tough non-conference schedule. I mean, I would we've talked about in the show before. I would I know I'm biased, but like I would put your guys's non-conference schedule from a mid major perspective up against anybody in the country. When you guys played every mid major team you played has a chance to win their league or is predicted to win their league. How is that guys? How has that prepared you guys to be ready to go for conference play? And then what do you kind of see as the biggest key as you get ready for conference play so that you guys are aligned to be able to go win in Asheville? Yeah, I mean, we we we played a tough schedule and that was what we wanted. That's what we try to do every year. And we want to play. We want to play teams that are going to get us ready for for big games that we're going to play in mid January and mid February. Because going on the road in the SoCon is hard. And you know, there's so many good teams and so many good coaches and players and programs that we want to play the best programs that we can in the non-con. And we've got we've got some some great teams. We've got to play some, you know, like you said, projected league winners and some teams that are going to going to put up a really good fight in their league. So it ultimately gave us opportunities to, you know, before we get to SoCon play, be tested and play tough games and and see where we need to improve and and, you know, self-diagnose and self scout and get us in a position where now as we get into SoCon play, we can have a better idea of who we are as a team, what we what we're what we're about and how we're going to proceed and continue to keep getting better. And, you know, for us, I think a big key is going to be just continuing to have guys, you know, play the role of the best of their ability. Right. Like we've got some super talented guys and we've got some players that can impact games. And it's like the more we can mesh this group together and we can get guys playing to their strengths and do them what they do best. Like, Skye's the limit. So it's a fun group. And we got a bunch of guys who, you know, great personalities. And I just came back from a team breakfast and we were laughing and smiling the whole time because it's it's a great group. And it's a fun group. And we've got some some great personalities. Yeah. And hey, and it's a conference play. This is what it's all about. Yeah. Yeah. What you fight for right here and talk about some of the players, though. I just need to get from insight from you. When did you realize how good Alex Wilkins is going to be? Man, he's quite the player, isn't he? Yeah. This summer we could see flashes where it was like, man, this this dude, this dude could put the ball in the hole. This guy's making plays that that kind of nobody else can, you know, he's making pull passes. He's making tough shots. He's throwing lobs. And it was just like when the ball was in his hand, I mean, that thing was just on a string. And all of a sudden it was like, man, like this dude is really good. And obviously coach Richie, coach Richie, you know, believes in his guys and recruits guys that he could that he thinks can help this team. And all of a sudden we were like, man, this guy's gonna this guy's gonna play for us. He's gonna play a lot. And you know, it's been it's been so much fun to watch him grow and even see how much he's grown since the start of the year. And like, I mean, he's out there now, like, and he's he's settling us down sometimes, you know, and like he and like, that's that's awesome. And that's growth. And that's what we need. Like that's why you give him these reps at the starting year where we're like, we need it. We need to let him grow and let him do things because he's he's super talented. And he's he's such a great dude and such such a great player. And so it's like playing with him super fun. And it's super easy to super easy to root for. And that's the fun thing about this group is all these guys, man, like, it's they're so easy to root for, you know, like, I'm I want all my teammates to play awesome every single game. And it's like, you don't see that across college basketball, you know, especially in the landscape today where it's like, oh, well, this guy's making this much money and this guy's taking my minutes and this guy's doing that. Like, man, with this group, like, it really doesn't matter. It's all about, can we get guys playing their best? Like, you know, last game, Ace of Thomas couldn't miss. Like I was jumping up and down like you wouldn't even believe on the bench. I mean, I was so happy to see him making making all these shots and like, I'm coming out to half court yelling, it's Chicago, because that's my guy. And and we got the Bears bond and we got all that. So it's it's it's such a great group. And, you know, we've got some super talented pieces. And it's just fun. It's fun to see it all mesh together. And hopefully we can keep this thing rolling. Yeah. And just even the front court, you, Cooper Bowser, Charles Johnson, I mean, that is a dominant front court here in the Southern conference. And Cooper Bowser, I know a little bit of the injury. Hopefully he's going to be back healthy from that side of things. But just even looking how he has progressed and developed over the years. I mean, it's pretty special. And I think that's part of what we see at Furman, the development. And Cooper Bowser is one of those guys that speaks in volumes to showcasing the development side there at Furman. Man, absolutely. And he's been so committed to getting himself better and becoming a, you know, I mean, he's leading the country. Yes. The percentage. Like, I mean, it's it's unbelievable. And it's it's been super fun to see him, you know, get better and do all these things and impact the game because he's always had the size. I mean, he's put on a ton of weight. And, you know, he last year and his freshman year, he struggled sometimes with, with, you know, finishing, catching and all that kind of stuff. He was he was working with, with our old strength coach, catching football, so try to get his hands better and tennis balls and like doing all this fun stuff because, because, and now all of a sudden that's paying off because, you know what, he's shooting 87% from the field. And every time you throw the ball up there, he's he's dunking that thing and he's smiling and he's pointing at the guy who threw him the lob. And it's like, man, it's like, it's just fun to it's fun. He's so fun to play with. And he's again, he's got I can't say it enough. Like these guys have such amazing, you know, personalities and such great dudes that it's like being in the locker room and playing with them and being on the court, then like it's so easy to do that because they're great dudes, you know, and it's like, that's what it's all about. It's like our program is about being better together and playing, playing the game as a group and playing the game the right way and playing with a smile on your face. And like, I think that's when we're at our best is we've got great energy and we've got dudes who are out there smiling and pointing and giving chest bumps and, you know, dancing, all that kind of stuff. Like that's that's when we're at our best. And I think, you know, coup coups the epitome of that because he when he gets smiling, he gets going, like it gets our whole group. He's our whole group jazz because nothing's better than an old Bowser dunk. And those e.g.b.s. Those energy behaviors that that's for certain. I know that's a staple there. All right. So talking about some of the personalities, who's the jokester on the team? Who's the funniest person and who can make fun of coach Richie the best or doing impersonation coach Richie the best? We've got some funny dudes, man. But I think consensus would be Coup's brother, Cole. He is definitely the funniest dude on the team. I mean, anytime I'm with him, I mean, I'm laughing. He's he's he's the jokester. So but we've done some everybody's done some good impersonation coach Richie over the years. He gives us nice opportunities to do that. He he's got he's got some great quotes and he's got stuff where it's it's layups for us. But we Coup's done some good ones. I've got some good ones. Cole's done some good ones. We've had some guys in past years get some coach Richie impressions. It's it's a good time. I love it. All right. So who's the better athlete? You or your sister, though? Whoo. I that's a good question. I'm probably going to give her the her the nod there. She's she's a beast. I'm so proud of her. And it's been I mean, it's so much fun watching her play. I mean, people who watch the games with me know how intense I get into them. And, you know, I basically stand for most of her games, even when I'm watching in the apartment, if it's any if it's a big game, I'm up and I'm standing. So she she's she's she's had an awesome year and she loves it. And it's been fun watching her play and all these different stages, you know, the elite eight this year, play for the USA and her different various roles. And it's it's it's fun. But I give her a hard time sometimes. I, you know, I think I think it's closer than people realize. But we we definitely debated in our house. Well, I mean, keeping it keeping it light here, you mentioned the Chicago connection with you and Asa. And obviously, when I was there, we had the Chicago connection. We talked in Chicago sports. How deep are our bears going to play off this year? Tough one against San Francisco. But I like I wasn't mad after it was in that game, because it was the first time maybe in my 41 years that we actually got involved in a shootout. Score important. How deep are the bears going this year, Ben? I mean, if this shows anything, I bought a Cale Blaine Jersey yesterday. So even after a loss, even after a loss, I believe in my bears. No, it's been it's been fun. We've got we've got one of our managers also bears fans. So the three of us usually get together for bears games on Sundays. And we all watch at our apartment. We our apartments got two TVs. So usually we got to try to talk talk the other other apartment people into letting us use the main TV for the bears. But now all of a sudden, the bears become much CTV. So it's easy to get them on the on the first screen. So yeah, I think I think we I think we got a chance. You know, the NFC is pretty open this year. I mean, I think it's a lot of teams are in the same same level. But it'll be fun. It'll be fun to watch them play off football, man. That's that's what I'm looking forward to. That's right. Playoff football is different. And just as we know, conference play is different as well. And speaking of bears, you got to get ready for tomorrow's action against the Mercer Bears there at Timmins Arena at noon tip off. And I know you're excited about that. And Ben, can't thank you enough for joining us here on SoCon Fast Break. You're the very first player guest we've had on the show, man. Yeah, I'm honored. I'm honored. You guys are my you guys are my guys. So I absolutely had to get on here and knock this out with you. And, you know, thanks to you, we've got a nice little documentary to look back on our freshman year. So, you know, we're indebted to you for that for a while, because I'll be showing that to my kids and my grandkids someday. So they know I'm not just some old guy talking about the good old days, but I'm actually I'm actually telling them about about a great experience. So thanks to you for that. You are welcome. And it was an honor and you are an integral part of that whole story, that whole season. Yes, sir. And part of the documentary as well. So again, Ben, thank you so much, man. Have a great day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. And that is Ben Vander Waal firming forward. And if we get ready for more Southern Conference action. And if you want to, you know, it's easy. Just hit the subscribe or follow button so you don't miss any of the great content that we're going to be putting out each week as now it is conference play. So remember, hit that subscribe, follow button, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, including the iHeart radio app. Until next time, may all your jumpers hit nothing but the bottom of the net.