Modern Mom Problems : A Podcast We Are Obsessed with ft. Tara Clark and Dr. Rachel NYC

Hey, Obsessors. Welcome back to Get Obsessed. I'm your host, Julie Locant, and today we're doing something different. I am obsessed with finding people who tell it like it is. And today, we are handing the mic over to one of the best in the game. We are featuring an episode from Modern Mom Problems that you have to hear. Meekah and I are obsessed with Tara Clark, and she is sitting down with the iconic Dr. Rachel NYC to talk about her new book, When Life Happens. Listen, we all know the mental load is real. Whether you're a mom or just someone trying to keep your head above water, your brain is probably lying to you. Number one, Tara and Dr. Rachel dive deep into the mindset shifts you actually need. So you stop feeling like you're being chased by a bear. Every time the phone rings, we're talking body image and the just do it psychology and how to stop gatekeeping your own happiness. This is so powerful, Obsessors. I've been looping this conversation because the vibes are immaculate and the advice is a life changing. Get ready to get obsessed with Modern Mom Problems and listen to this podcast wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Now on with the show. Welcome to Modern Mom Problems where we're trying to solve the world's Modern Mom Problems and if we can't do that, at least we're having fun talking about them. I'm Tara Clark. Let's go. Hey there, friends. Welcome back to another episode of Modern Mom Problems where we're trying to solve the world's Modern Mom Problems and if we can't do that. Well, at least we're having fun talking about them. I'm your girl, Tara, and today I'm joined by one of my really good friends, Dr. Rachel Goldman. You may know her as Dr. Rachel NYC. She has a new book out. It's called When Life Happens, the Mindset Shift. You need to manage stress, build confidence and break free. We're going to be talking all about mindset today. I love this book. I read it cover to cover in just a few days and I think you're going to really love it too. And I think you're going to love this conversation with Rachel because we talk about everything from body image to negative self-talk. We cover a lot of different things and without further ado, let's bring on Rachel. Rachel, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you today. I am so excited. We spoke for 30 minutes before I hit record. We talked about everything under the sun, but what we didn't talk about was actually what's inside of this beautiful new book for the folks who haven't listened to our first episode together because you were on, I think, about a year or so ago. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Thank you so much. And I'm curious to hear what I said a year ago and what has changed because so much has changed. That's true. Yeah, but I'm Dr. Rachel Goldman. I'm a clinical psychologist based in New York City. Also clinical assistant professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the NYU Grosven School of Medicine. And the newest title I can add to that list is I am an author of the book When Life Happens, as well as a mom. And I always like to add a daughter, a sister, a wife and all of those other things as well. So many roles we have. All of them are human, right? Human with lots of roles. Yeah. I love that. So you have a new book, When Life Happens. I'm wearing my very special When Life Happens bracelet. Ta-da. Wait, I was going to hold up the book too. Me too. Me too. I feel like that's a fun little screen grab. Yeah. So what prompted you to write this? What at what point did you say this book needs to come into the world? You know, it's funny because I had the idea years ago and I think it was during the pandemic. I was like, I actually have to do this, but it wasn't the right time for me. And I think it was because of the pandemic, I was getting lots of referrals, lots of cause to do therapy with people. And I had a wait list and people kept asking, is there a book you recommend in the meantime? And I was like, yeah, this book, but not this part and this book, but not that part. And I felt like there wasn't one book that really encompassed everything that I wanted people to read or have in terms of utilizing tools to help just better be prepared for life and to get out of this stuck feeling. And then the timing, you know, I always say there's never a perfect time, but the timing for me wasn't right then. I think I, you know, I still had one young child a few years later that had another young child. And the timing wasn't right for me. And then it kind of just kept happening. And I actually remember an event that I spoke at with Oprah that I kind of the light bulb went off. And I was like, the fire is under me. I need to get this book out there. And I actually very, very vividly remember the moment at that event when I think I turned to my husband right afterwards. I was like, I'm going to write the book. Like now is the time I need to write the book. And I think I even shared it with the producers that day that like, I'm going to write a book. I'm like, I don't think I don't remember if I had signed the contract yet. I don't think I did. I think it was more in this early stages. But I remember being like, yes, now is the time because again, I think that event really made me realize what I've realized for years now, working at the hospital prior to private practice, was that people feel stuck. They know what to do, but there's something that's keeping them stuck. And usually it's our mindset. And it was one client after another behind that closed door that I was my clients were having these aha moments. And they were these little things that I was saying. And I was like, wow, like if I could just plaster that on a billboard to help one person help thousands of people feel better. And I was like, well, that's Instagram. And then I was like, well, a little easier of a place to come back to and put post it notes and highlight would be a box. Yeah. So it's a long answer. No, no, it's an important answer. I love that it was actually your interaction with Oprah that lit the fire underneath you. What was that event about? Yeah, so that was actually the second event I did with her in person. It was called the making, making the shift event, which is also interesting, giving kind of the title of my book and everything. It was an event with her partnered with Weight Watchers, actually talking about body image and the shame and guilt that women or really anyone. It wasn't just for women on the shame and guilt that individuals carry related to their bodies and just kind of our roles in this world. And I remember backstage right before we went on, she said to us, all kind of in small groups, you're here for a reason. And I want to make sure that no matter what I ask you, that you make sure that you get that message across. And I remember thinking, like, wow, like I have this platform to get my message across and what could that look like? And most of the people, I was only myself and the MD out of all of the guests that were like appearing on stage with her, maybe like 12 of us. We were the only two that didn't have books. And that was also, I was like, wow, like all these people have these books to share their messages, you know, as well. And again, that was one of the things that I was like, I think it's time. Yeah, it's time. And now is the time. Here we are. Apparently I did it. Yes, here we are. Now is the time. I mean, there's many things that I love about your book. And obviously it's really primarily centered on the mindset shift. And in it, obviously you talk a lot about CBT and how our thoughts and our emotions and behaviors are linked. Can you tell us a little bit about that too? Yeah. So CBT for people that don't know is cognitive behavior therapy. It is a form of therapy. But what I love so much about it is that there are basic tools and CBT techniques that are so useful for anybody and everybody to use. You don't need a mental health condition, mental health, illness or a diagnosis to benefit from it. Although the first CBT model was really based off of helping individuals with depression. And so the idea is that our thoughts, emotions and behaviors are all linked and we can intervene at the thought by examining the thought, identifying that it's not a fact and then challenge it or reframe it. Or we can intervene at the behavior, which I talk about in the book in a way as like the just do it campaign totally got it right. That is behavior activation in disguise. So we can intervene in either one. And the greatest thing about it is whichever one we choose, really, whichever one is easier for us, given what's going on in our life and where we are, the rest kind of file follows. So like by tweaking our thought, we're going to automatically start feeling something different and that feeling is going to lead to a different behavior. Or we do something like just think about today. It's a beautiful day outside. Like just getting outside. If you're in a horrible mood, just simply getting outside, moving your body. You're going to immediately feel something different and that feeling is then going to influence what you do next. And that is so powerful. And that's why I literally love CBT. I joke that I live, eat, breathe, sleep, CBT, because it is just so powerful how these tips and tools and techniques can be so life changing. And I just wanted that to become more accessible. Like there is no reason to gatekeep CBT tools to the therapy room. Of course, my book is not a replacement at all for therapy, but it really does provide those tools and a more digestible approach. I love there's so many different prompts and takeaways within the book because obviously you're writing and then you sort of stop and say, OK, here's a prompt. Grab a pen and paper. Let's write out, you know, X, Y and Z. And I think there's something so, so powerful about that. And in the book, you talk about how your brain can play tricks on you. But then we also need to retrain it so that we could sort of think clearer. You want to explore that a little bit? Yeah. So our brains are wired for survival. People don't realize this. And they're wired for survival in the sense of years, years, years ago, when a threat could have been like the bear in the woods as we're hunting for food. Now, our brains didn't really adapt so well to like modern age. So today, our threats look a little different, right? Our threats today is like social comparisons and, you know, like social media and all of these and like who's who's getting the promotion. You know, it's very different. But the best and greatest thing about our brain is that there are things we can do to create new brain cells and mold our brain cells and adapt differently by training our brain in a way to rewire itself. You know, like learning behavior is there's a theory in psychology, you know, learning theory and we can learn things. And guess what? We can unlearn them and learn new things. So by using things like self talk and other tools in CBT that I talk about in the book, we can actually start retraining our brain in a way that works for us. Yes, we still need to survive. And so like our brain is doing what it needs to do. But it's not always telling us the most accurate thing that we need to hear now or the most helpful. And we can kind of train our brain in a way to do that to work with us in a better way. Yeah, that's so important. There was a viral video trend going on for a while, especially in the parenting space where it was like my brain can't tell whether or not I'm being chased by a bear or it's the oven fan or a box of Legos being knocked over or whatever, you know, add other overwhelming. Over stimulating thing here. It's so true. I remember that trend and I think you did a post about it. And I feel like I may have also and I remember being like, oh my God, this is what I always talk about. Like your brain thinks you're being chased by a bear. But the reality is that you're not. But our brain, again, the easiest way to describe it is mind, body connection and how the stress response does what it needs to do. The fight or flight response. When we feel like there's a threat, a stressor. And now that the key here is though it could be a perceived threat. It could be a noise in the room that was the blocks being torn down from the kids or it could be a threat and there's somebody outside your home. Right. But what happens in that situation is our brain goes, oh my God, I need to survive. There's a threat and it immediately puts your body in survival fight or flight mode. So but but yeah, that trend was was right on. And I bet if I'm so curious, I wonder if I looked it up. I'm sure some kind of some psychologist probably started it because literally that's the. That's the example that we get. It's like I have it in the book. Like you are not being chased by a bear in the woods anymore. I mean, I hope not. You know, gosh, I hope not. I mean, I remember that's a different book altogether. I was just going to say, I remember hiking in Montana years ago and we had a by bear spray because there actually were bears in the woods. In that situation, maybe I was being chased by a bear. But most of the time that our body goes in a fight or flight, we are not being chased by a bear. Most of the time there is not somebody outside. You know, again, hopefully in those situations, most of the time it is more of these, you know, smaller, they're all stressors and not minimizing them. But smaller kind of stressors that are not as immediate danger or imminent danger. Yeah, yeah, no, that totally makes sense. Just yesterday I had a conversation with someone and we were talking about. Regulation and the practice that it takes like regulation is not something that just happens overnight. And there are many things in your book that you talk about like this doesn't happen overnight. Body neutrality doesn't happen overnight. You know, whatever all these things, but it's one of those things where. Every day it is a deliberate practice, right? It's a deliberate practice each day that you have to say, I'm going to calm my body before I react to something. I'm going to take a breath before I react to something. It is it is so hard to do that. I mean, you know, just thinking mom to mom right now, right? Yeah, like, I mean, I, you know, I have two little kids and I have to remind myself. To breathe before I react to that model, that behavior. And I even like to do it with my son. I'm going to be like, I'll sometimes get like me, you know, like level with him, hold his hands and be like, let's take a breath together. Right. Let's let's take a breath. Let's do this together before we do what's next or figure it out or talk about it. But that regulating is so difficult. And I mean, we have difficulty doing it yet we expect our children to be able to do it. I mean, and I'm doubly too. I mean, I'm like, why can't my son do that? Oh, yeah, he's seven. He's seven years old. He's learning to be a person. Right. No, it's so challenging, though. And and any of these things, you know, the things I talk about in the book, they all take practice, right? And yes, when we talk about them, they seem so simple, like create a moment to breathe. Sounds amazing. But you really have to be intentional about it and do it consistently. Now, do you have to do it every single day? No, like I have in the book, like most days, right? You want to be doing these things on most days. But as life happens, I don't expect you to do it every day. There's no perfect. But doing it on most days, creating a routine that becomes a habit that becomes automatic is the key. And then you can just pull from it when you need to. And that's my goal for everybody, to be able to have the tools to just pull from when you need it because you've already set yourself up by practicing in advance. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. A thousand percent. Yes. I love that so, so much. In the book, I would have to say chapter six is my favorite. And I'm not just saying that because our story is in it. OK, maybe I'm saying that because our story is in it. But I love that our stories. I almost forgot for a moment. And then when you said that, I was like, right. So that chapter, I have to think back. I wonder if that chapter was even an idea when we did that talk, because that chapter was, I don't want to say an add on, but as I was writing the book, I later added that to my outline. It was not in my initial outline, that chapter. And let's talk about six and it's a good chapter. It's a good chapter. It might be my favorite. You know, it's it's a lot of people's favorite. Well, that's me happy. So, yeah, just to give a little bit background, do you want me to tell this? I'll tell. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it's a little bit of your story. A little bit sort of, right? Chapter six is about body image and working through all of the different thoughts that we have and then behaviors because thoughts and behaviors are linked. So back in April of twenty twenty five, I hosted a women's wellness retreat. Rachel came on and we were doing, I said came on because I'm always thinking about podcasts who came to the retreat and we did a fireside chat. And we were talking about body image. And in that fireside chat, I shared a story of something that I've been doing for the last several years, which is instead of wearing bikini bottoms to the beach or just like a one piece, I wear running shorts and usually a sports bra top or a bikini top, depending on how I'm feeling that day or what matches really. And I shared that story with Rachel and she thought that was so interesting that she added it to the book. And when I read that, I almost. Part of me wanted to cry not because you added it because I think that's really exciting, but because in the story, you say I changed the system or I changed. She changed her system and that's true. And I'm crying. I'm crying. Oh, my gosh. And what made me so happy about that is that now people, thousands of people will read that story and know that for me personally, and I could only ever speak for myself, right? But I wanted to feel more confident at the beach. I wanted to show up better for myself, for my family, not thinking about, oh, do I have a wedgie or what does my butt look like in these pants? Or, oh, did I shave tightly or closely enough or any of those things that normally would go through my mind when I'm at the beach? And I could just show up and have fun and not even think about it and just be present with my family and be in, like I said, show up for myself, even regardless of my family show up for myself in the way that I would want to show up for the world. And thank you for adding that story. Thank you because that that conversation could have just gone on once at the wellness retreat, just for the women that were in the room, which is important because my mom still talks about that retreat. And that retreat is what helps give her words and awareness that she's never had. And so I'm so grateful for that for you. She still talks about you. When I told her that we were getting on, she's like, oh, my God, Rachel, I love that she should come. She should come to that. I know I digress, but it's so important to me to share that story. Now that that's why I wanted to mention it here on the pod, because not only is it my short story to share, but the fact that you thought that it was important enough to share in the book. And so I'm so grateful for that. Of course. And I'm so grateful that you shared that story that day. You know, for people listening, like I didn't know that until that day. You know, like you shared that story live with me. And actually what that story did for me was, and then I share this in the book also about how I didn't even realize in the moment, because a lot of times we do things automatic, right? Like I wear sports bra tight bathing suits since I had kids, probably even since I was pregnant. Not really before, though, for sure. And and I just knew it worked for me and I did it. And I never really took the time to think of why I did it, though. And it's funny because I work in this field and I never really took that pause to be like, Oh, I'm doing what works for me. It was just an automatic. Like, of course, I'm going to wear a sports bra tight top. So by you sharing that story, it really made that connection for me that, wow, I'm also doing this intentionally without really realizing it. And then it brought it to a whole new level of this idea that I always say, you know, what you wear matters because when you just described about being able to be present on the beach or at the pool with your kids, that takes the noise out of the brain, right? The noise out of the space that you're able to be present. And same with me. Like I remember being like, well, if I have to be worried that my boobs are falling out, you know, as I'm breastfeeding and this and that, like, I'm just going to be sitting at the beach chair the whole time and not running around and in the pool with my kids. My kids, that was fine, to be honest. I don't love going in the water unless I was very, you know, like, you know, but now I want to, like I want to play with my kids in the water. I want to run around with them. So, you know, and that goes back to the idea of this book, that it's the phase of life that we're currently in. So pre-kids, for me, that wasn't a concern. I don't know what type of things they were, but it was a wide range of variety. It was what it was. The phase of life that I'm in right now, I had to change the system that worked for me, same as you. I can't predict the future, but I imagine in five, 10 years from now, who knows, maybe I'll be in a different phase of, I mean, I will be in a different phase of my life and maybe something different will work. But you and I sharing that stories, sharing those stories and changing the systems for us, allow both of us to show up at the beach, at the pool, with our families being fully present, or at least taking that part out of the equation. And I always say, if we could take the thought process out, we're able to be more present, right? Like I'm not worried about running and things falling out, so to say. You're not worried about the wedgie. You know, we're able to just enjoy the moment. And again, that's why what we wear matters. And that's why this chapter, I thought really deserved a place in this book because the book is really talking about reframing our minds and using the tools to help our mindset shift. And at some point it comes back to us and how we see ourselves. Because if we don't see ourselves in a certain way, we're not going to show up as confident or as our true selves. And that's why one day I was like, oh my God, I have to add a body image chapter to this, because I really think that would be the gap in this book. If I didn't. So I'm grateful for you that you invited me to have that conversation with you and that you were open enough to share that story. And then even open to, I remember even asking you, like, are you OK with me sharing this and including your name? So thank you, because I truly do believe that we are together changing the way people can think about this because we are both sharing those stories. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You even mentioned shoes about comfortable shoes and uncomfortable shoes. And that made me think, because now I'm at an age where I will not wear shoes that are on that cover. Same. But when I was younger all the time, I only cared about them being cute or high or whatever. Right. And then you come home with scissors. Yes. And my feet really paid the price for that. And now I laugh at myself just thinking like, how silly. It's it's so true. And and right. And I love using shoes as an example, because everything serves a purpose. And I think this is like, I have flats for this. I have sneakers for this. I have slip ones for that. I have heels for that. And each one serves a different purpose. And that's what we need to think about in terms of our clothes, even, right? Like you're running shorts at the beach serve a purpose for where you are. And life right now, sports broad tops. Same thing. They serve a purpose. Make them work for you. You know, like there's same as our thoughts. We can think the same thing. Make them work for you. They're serving a purpose. They can encourage us or they can discourage us. They could keep us exactly stuck where we are or they can help us move one step forward. That's why everyone needs to read this book, because whether you are a size two or a size 20 or you're a man or you're a woman or anything. We all have these thoughts, whether it's body image or just in life or things that are holding us back, right? Our self limiting beliefs, right? Like we all are having these thoughts. And so it's so important to, for lack of a better term, break free. I think I might be using your words there, but to break free from from these thoughts that are holding us back from our living our best lives. It's so true. And and that's why, again, I wanted to write this book because people don't realize how powerful our thoughts are and how one thought can literally change the course of our day. And just that awareness is enough. You know, like even if just like somebody is listening right now, they're like, oh, my God, my thoughts matter. You know, just then being more aware is going to make you tune in and maybe take a pause and be like, wow, what did I just say to myself? How's that going to impact the next thing? That's when change happens, right? Like that awareness, that insight. And then we slowly start making tweaks without even realizing it. Yeah, exactly. At one point, I think you mentioned something about. When we have negative self talks, sometimes people could say, well, oh, no, I'm motivating myself. Like that's sort of the narrative that they're telling their self. No, I talked to myself like this to motivate myself, but you would say. Other. Well, it's funny. I would say if it's working for you, keep doing it, right? For some people, I mean, and again, there is a whole field of study called positive psychology for a reason, right? So if those affirmations, if those positive mantras are working for you, do not change them. But if they're not working for you and you feel like they're actually setting you up for failure or disappointment or you're saying them and it's not really feeling like you and you can't believe them when they're discouraging, then I would say tweak it. Right. Don't say it. We can pull it back a little bit, like reel it in and and use what I call more neutral or grounded words. You know, it doesn't have to be the complete opposite. You want it to feel like it resonates. You want to believe it. So really, the key is getting away from the extremes and finding that in the middle. So like as opposed to saying something like I love my body today, if you don't something more neutral, maybe like I accept, you know, I'm not even going to tweak that. I appreciate my body for what it does for me and I'm working towards loving it a little more like that's more realistic. It sounds like to me at least if you don't absolutely love your body and please, everybody know that it's OK and normal to not love every inch of your body every day. But you want to just make it more realistic because if you can't believe it, again, the thoughts going to impact what happens next. Exactly. In the book, actually, in chapter six, you have a say this, not that. Like instead of saying this, try this instead. And it's an entire page of different things and different mindset, set shifts. And I love that different tweaks actually was using one this morning. I was lifting this morning and I was doing some some workouts and I looked at my tricep area and it's like a little bit of that like old lady, tricep, the turkey arm kind of thing. And we all have everybody has it. And I was like, it's OK. I said, that's OK. My arms are strong and I'm working towards strength. And so I used a line set shift just this morning thinking about that. Like I'm grateful that I'm able to pick up these weights and work towards something. And it's just those little little tweaks instead of being like, oh, Tara, you look so flabby, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. I love that you did that. And I love that you use that example because now I want to put you on the spot. But I want to ask you about it because if you didn't have that tweak, that reframe and you were just like, you know, my arms are flabby, whatever. How would what would you do next? What would the behavior be? Because I'm imagining two scenarios. Then I'd probably feel bad about myself, you know, and I'd probably say something mean and be like, oh, that's so stupid. Oh, look at that, you know, pinch it or what would the behavior be after? I would probably cover them up in a way that I wouldn't have to look at them anymore. OK, OK. And maybe that would work for you. I'm also imagining for for somebody that has a similar thought, which I think lots of us have that thought. It's why would either be I'm not working out or I have to work harder and almost like punish yourself, punish yourself for it. Sure. Sure. Sure. But I'm imagining one or the other so that unhelpful thought would either probably lead to like not doing it all and giving up. Well, I'm not going to work out or I actually like your you did a tweak that could work for you. You could cover them up because if they're distracting you and you still want to work out, that is also changing the system to work for you. Yes. Or somebody would like work harder, right? But you were like, stop. This is ridiculous. Everybody has this. It is what it is. I'm here doing the best I can. And that's all I can do. Yeah. That is it. And then you can internal dialogues. Well, and then you kept working out like you accomplished your goal. That thought could have stopped you from doing what you wanted to do and accomplish your goal. There's a great example of a thought in the moment, how it can change the course of the day. Rachel, you're the best. I love you. Did I tell you about my my new five minute atomic habit is that every day now I run, not walk, run, full, full sprint run for five minutes a day on the treadmill every single day. No excuses. I love it. Amazing. That's my new atomic habit. And it's less than five minutes. It could be more than five minutes, but it could never be less than five minutes. I love it. And how does that such a great. Yes, how does that make you feel? No, it feels great because I am a big proponent of micro habits. I have a 1300 day streak onto a lingo. I'm doing my five minutes of running a day. So I'm at best. Thank you. I'm not a big like go all in kind of girly. I am just like micro tweak, micro tweak, micro tweak to something bigger. And so I'm proud of that. And to be honest, the all go in kind of girly wouldn't be doing these things because they would have given up already because they're not sustainable. They're too overwhelming. It's too much work. They don't know where to start. So actually, again, kind of bringing it back to the book. That's exactly again, this book is ideas. We don't need an overhaul. It's about those tweaks. It's about what can I do today for five minutes? What can I do today for one minute? And I love that you're doing that because the action is going to lead to a certain feeling, which leads to a certain thought, which then becomes a cycle. Yep, exactly. Right. I'm going to ask you a question. I ask all of my guests and I'm super curious to see what you're going to say. Oh, curious to see what I said a year ago now. I actually don't know if I was asking that question. Okay, I may have been. I'm not sure I introduced it in the last like season or so. What do you think is the biggest modern mom problem today? Oh, my gosh. Honestly, I think social media and social comparisons. Like, I mean, we can take social media even out of the equation for a minute, but the comparisons. I because of social media, it's more in front of us. But I really think the comparisons are, again, such a problem, keeping people stuck exactly where they are, are keeping or leading people to have more negative thoughts about themselves and comparing and feeling bad about themselves. And again, that impacts how we show up. Yeah, absolutely. Dr. Rachel, tell everyone where we can buy your book. Thank you so much. And yes, it is out today. So people can buy it wherever you like to buy your books pretty much anywhere. But you can also go to the specific links on my website when life happens book dot com. But it's available Amazon, Target, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop, Book of Millions, all those stores, all the places, stores, everything. Yes, where can we follow you online to? I'm on most social media platforms as Dr. Rachel NYC. I always like to remind people that podcasts, social media, et cetera, is not therapy, just like my book is not therapy. But I do love to connect with people and put you in the right direction if that's for resources or referrals or just to connect and say hi. I love it. Rachel, thanks so much for being here today. Thank you. Thanks for listening to today's episode of Modern Mom Probs. I hope you enjoyed our deep dive in today's problem with me, your host, Tara Clark. Join me next time when I'll be interviewing another great guest and tackling another Modern Mom problem. If you enjoy today's episode, please leave us a review and rating. As always, you can head over to Modern Mom Probs on Instagram and give me a follow or check out my book, Modern Mom Probs, a survival guide for 21st century mothers available online wherever books are sold. Well, that's it for today. See you next time, folks. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.