Daphne Guinness and the Anarchy of Creativity with Katya

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Season C's apply. 18 month contract. Prices may rise during contract. Check availability at gigaclear.com. Ah, okay, welcome back to The Ball and the Beautiful. However, today is a rare exception. Neither of us are bald and both of us are beautiful. We have a legend in the house, Daphne Guinness. Thank you so fucking much for being here. Oh, why did I keep having it? I was gonna do this really cheeky thing. It was like, get like, fasten your fucking seat belts because we've got a legend in the house. She's an elusive, shantoo. She's the fucking legend. But I was just... That sounds really good. Okay, great. Daphne fucking Guinness. Thank you for being here. This is, I have to say, I'm gonna try to like modulate my emotional temperature and not flip out because I was telling Mark, yeah, tell Mark about 10 years ago, maybe, me and a bunch of my friends were at a friend's house on the floor of his bedroom. And he's like, I have to show you this. And his giant TV, he put on heaven. And we all like collectively shat our pants. And it was, we were all like, it was like a rare moment where nobody pulled out their phone. Nobody looked away. Nobody had gone to the bathroom. You know what I mean? It was like such a difficult thing to have everybody's attention, like laser focused. And then we just started watching all of them. And it was like, it was so surreal, so cool. And now you're here. It is so weird. So thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. How are you doing? I'm doing really well. I'm so nice of you to have me. And I'm so happy you loved having me because I never know what I'm releasing into. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, I... Is it a trap? Yeah, I never, it's also because there's never any plan. Yeah, oh, well that is very relatable to me. I never have a plan. Never have a plan. No, no. But is that the best? You know, they're flying by the seat of your pants. Yeah, I mean, because if you plan, it's always going to go something wrong anyways. Yeah. But what is this, what is this fucking coolest? This is, I made a glove with my friend, Sean Lean and Alexander McQueen. And this was, yeah, this was one of the tri-ites for the whole glove thing. Jesus Christ. So this I still wear, I've got a couple of them. So I mean, we're going to get into your like insane couture. I wouldn't even call it collection. What would you call it? See, not me. Yeah, like... No, I didn't know, not quite. Oh, God. If you had to, if you had to throw out a number of looks, say like full looks, you know, that you could style a person in, how many would you have to guesstimate that? I have no idea. Because I can do a lot of things with like, with changing accessories or, you know, or switching things between things. But I don't know because actually a lot of my stuff just lives in storage. And is it like, is it okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's all right. I think it's okay. I mean, it's because I kind of float around. I'm not really, I don't really have a place as it were. Yeah, the citizen of the world or the universe. Yeah, exactly. Oh, God. I dread going into my storage because the idea of the just like memories and... I have, I wanna... So I was obsessed with, I mean, I came into like looking at fashion kind of late. And I think when I saw the Plato's Atlantis collection from a queen, that's when I was like, holy crap. And then what was the point at which you kind of like really got into the world of fashion like, so in the thick of it? I guess I was in the thick of it, but I've never really, I know it sounds like really, really strange things, but I've never been on the industry side or in the kind of, or really, I've never been employed in the fashion world. Which is probably great. It's probably great. So I'm kind of, I'm neutral like Switzerland. Yeah. I'm not sort of bound by any brand or by any kind of whatever. I just go with how I'm feeling. And a lot of it is friends really. But I did find myself in the thick of it. Probably, I mean, I was in the thick of it before I met Eze. That's how, in a way I kind of met her. Well, I sort of, I remet her in 1998, but I knew her as a teenager. She was quite a lot older than me. And it's her birthday today. Shut the fuck up. So happy birthday, Isabella Blow. So for people at home who don't know, Isabella Blow is like a legendary stylist and a champion of McQueen. Was she the one that bought his collection from school? Is that correct? Correct, that's correct. Okay. And so, yeah, she was like a, I mean, how would you describe her? Oh my God. She was the funniest person. I mean, her laugh and just, she was one of those people that just made you sort of braver, but just by being around her. I'm actually quite sort of shy and anxious. She's much more sort of like gung-ho about her. And I sort of, I fell into that part of the kind of fashion world, but I'd always been sort of in the background. I didn't really know how to be in the thick of it. I kind of just learned on the road, as they say. Yeah, it seems like, I mean, it always seemed to me like an impenetrable world of like snobs. Yeah, well, pretty much. I mean, that's a good way to sum it up. I mean, it's a world like any others. And what's great is it's like a kind of, like a fair or something. So you do run in, what's nice is you sort of develop friendships and lots of sort of relationships over the years. And even though I'm kind of, unless it's a friend, I don't really go to fashion shows because I think it's sort of like, it's more for editors or it's more for kind of like whatever. And sometimes, you know, I've started to go a tiny bit more only because people that I know have taken over houses. Sure. Yeah. Who, I just watched the Victoria Beckham documentary and it was really fascinating to see like, how long it took her to get taken seriously. Yeah, but she's really good. She actually is, right? She's really, really brilliant. But it was a slog. I know, it took her a really long time for her. Like the old 20 years. And she's so talented. Yeah. Yeah. But they just won, I mean, I think it takes like, takes you back to 10 or 12 years to kind of break even. I mean, it's so longer. I think it was like 17 years or something crazy. And that's just like, in the business side is one thing, but then like the, you know, the reputation in the- Well, she did it. Yeah. She's fucking funny too. Yeah, I don't know. I've never met her, but she's hysterical. But it was like, it was such an interesting like look at how, how kind of, yeah, like it is tough to get taken seriously because you have to be an artist and you have to be a business person. And then you also have to be like cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I must say I've kind of stopped really. I mean, I didn't even, I must say I live in such a different world. And so in an intersection in my own mind of kind of other things, of mythologies. What is your, what is your favorite, what is your current obsession, if any, you have like at this very moment? In the fashion world? No, anything. Hmm. Well, I'm my, well, selfishly, but the album I'm writing. Okay. I mean, but it's kind of halfway in my head, you know what I mean? It's sort of, I'm plotting it out as it were. No, you mentioned outside that you, that songwriting is like, you happen in a flash. Yeah, it happens. It happens. How the fuck? They just appear. I guess it's, it's like excavation or picking up on signals from beyond. Cause I don't feel like, I feel they kind of write themselves in a funny way. Interesting. So it come up with a tune and a phrase. And then it all sort of like, just, it's like a kind of puzzle. It just comes together somehow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just like, you know. Yeah, I feel like the more. Sometimes more, some are more resolved than others. I was, I was bopping in the car like severely to hip neck spine. I just got to tell these fucking children at home, if you are listening to this or you're watching this, and if you don't fucking go to YouTube right now, I'm going to kill myself. No, you need to like put this on your fucking phone and you don't need to watch this thing on YouTube, skip that damn ad and then watch that goddamn. It is like, I, what is so exciting to me is that because now I'm doing little lip sync wiggles again, I have an arsenal of your fucking music. No way. That I'm going to make money off of. Oh great. Gosh, I'm so glad. Well, because it's so difficult for me to find English language music that I actually like. Oh my goodness. But it's. God, that's so flattering. Thank you. I mean, I'm not, I don't, there's no point in me blowing smoke up your ass, but like it is so good. It's like, ooh, ooh. Oh, it's so cinematic. That I did in two takes actually. And it was so funny because my producer was upstairs, Tony Visconti. And I just sort of, because I knew I had a little bit more and I needed to change a couple of lines. And so I was just there with the engineer who was, I think he was really blushing in the thing. Because I thought, you know, and then I thought I might get a laugh out of Tony. But you sort of like didn't even kind of notice. And I was like, whatever. But anyway, it was quite funny. Do you have fun in the booth? I do. It's kind of, but for me, well, when you're, when the band is in the room, it's great. Sometimes it's the loneliest place to be, to be, you know, sort of tracking with the whole band. And then you go in and then you do the lyrics afterwards. I quite liked, I mean, and I probably perform better in the studio when the band is in the room. I mean, although I can do it on my own. I mean, it's, you know, I, It's weird. But I think the thing is sometimes I can put the band off because I think in harmony. So, you know, okay, this is the first line. And then I'll sort of jump into a sort of third harmony for the second. And everybody thinks I've switched tracks all the time. So I'm much better at keeping on the kind of just lead vocal. Not trying to skip around too much, not doing octaves up, down or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you, have you ever been like, have you ever released a song that you're like, maybe like a little, a little while later, you're like, oh, I wish I did this or do you just let it go? Pretty much. I mean, there's a couple, there's one song on my first album that's in the wrong key, actually. Oh, really? Yeah. Sounds better in the original key that I wrote it in. Interesting. And then I'll probably re-record that in its original key. It's only half a step up, but it makes all the difference. I mean, I dabble and I nicely dabble as a dilettante in music, where I have no business singing, but I love it. Everybody's got business singing, to be honest. You know, and with technology, it's like, but anyways, we're talking about like, where did these ideas come from? And I had like a, my flash of genius was black diarrhea. And if you think, if you just think about, don't think about the subject matter, just the way that it sounds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds. It's the, the, the, the, the. No, I get it. That's how I always do it. It's also, it's consonants, it's vowels. Yeah. It's the way it sounds. Exactly. So you need to have a hard, you know, you need to sort of like, sometimes I'm always, unless I've written it all in one go, then sometimes that does happen evening in spaces. I wrote that in one sitting kind of like, and it's 54 chord changes. I mean, poor guitar players have to follow me on that one. But it modulates every one and a half bars. Jesus. I mean, it always comes back. Yeah, I think that's it. Exactly. So, I mean, you know, rock music is sort of, at this point, sort of four chords, they say three chords in the truth, but this is like 54, it's easier for us, it's easier for a string section to do that. Cause I'm, your voice is like a violin, essentially. Is that sort of, Oh yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you can bend the voice through, through different keys, but if you're trying to do it on a piano or on a, on a guitar, it's, you're putting out chord charts. And it's like, I've been told many times, I'm very good at doing things between keys. So it's, you know, I don't know, it's normally a D minor or an E flat major, which is a relative, whatever, but anyway. I know exactly what you're talking about, by the way. So, yeah. So, and also I go into these kind of arabic things, which is kind of, What does that mean? Well, they sort of, you know, the Eastern European kind of scales. What does that mean? I should know. Oh my God. Well, no, if you think about, I do sort of it's, I'd have to map it out for you. I can do it. It's a good example, you know, the song, the Beatles song called Girl, when it goes into a bazooka, it's difficult to, so Russian music, for example, has a different, it's got sort of like a, it's just, it's a different, it's different, not different notation, but it's, you know, the octaves are sort of slightly more, I've lost my words. I mean, I don't know, I don't have the musical vocabulary. A lot of that, even, many, many, even pops as a lot of like, it's a lot of folk influence, a lot of even like accordion, you know, which I'm obsessed with Russian folk. Gosh, I wish I was being more articulate today. Are you kidding me? I have like an, I have two EPs though. I mean, I know how to talk about notes. Oh my goodness. April is a dangerous time for me, because the second the weather gets even a little flirtatious, I start behaving like a woman of a certain age, who has simply had enough. Suddenly, I need a spring trip, a trip where I need soft pants, dark sunglasses, and a destination where I can walk around at golden hour pretending I have secrets. That is the power of April. It thaws the pavement, reawakens my eyes, and I'm like, I'm like, what's this? There's a freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze freeze down to a dinner that is so good, it makes me briefly forget pretty much everything. This is the kind of trip where you need to place that match as a fantasy. That's why I love booking stays on Airbnb, because when I travel, I do not want to be crammed into a hotel room with a view of a parking lot. I want a real place to stay. I want a living room where I can decompress after a long day of wandering around and judging southern architecture. I want a kitchen for snacks, a table for my frosty beverages, and enough space to dramatically collapse on the floor like Julia Robertson's something to talk about. And if I'm traveling with friends, it's even better, because then we can all stay together instead of scattered down different hallways in a hotel. And of course, once I start planning one trip, my brain immediately escalates. Suddenly I'm looking at Carmel next. Then Malta. Then Hokkaido Island. A little ocean air, some seafood, and maybe even a long walk where I pretend I'm processing something deep would really am just thinking about Russian pop music. Whether it's one quick spring reset or the beginning of a full warm weather spiral, trips just feel more personal when you book through Airbnb. Hey everybody, my name is Bob the Drag Queen. And I'm on Exchange. And we are the host of Sibling Rivalry. This is the podcast where two best friends gab and talk smack and have a lot of fun with our Black Queer selves. Yeah, for sure. And you know, we are family, so we talk about everything, honey, from why we don't like hugs to Black Lives Matter, to interracial dating, to other things, right, Bob? Yes, and it gets messy and we are not afraid to be wrong. So please join us over here at Sibling Rivalry available anywhere you get your podcast. You can listen and subscribe for free. For free, honey. I don't even know where to start with the music videos. I don't even know where to start. I, oh, I guess I was supposed to start with Heaven. And so when did your, when did your collaboration with David Luscheapel, because he's done many of your, how many of it? He's done seven. Jesus Christ. They're so like, they're so perfect. And I'm looking at the current pop stars in America and like my favorite pop stars in Russia. And, you know, going back to like whatever, 60s, 70s, 80s, nobody's doing it like you. I'm sure they are. It's just so, it's so fierce. It's like the, we watched, I mean, the girls watched Heaven in Time. And so do you enjoy doing music videos? Yeah, I love doing music videos. But yeah, I mean, I really enjoy doing music because there are, sometimes they go on for days. I was going to ask because a lot of people, I know who do, they love the product, but it's always just a mean to an end. You do. I'm a process person. In fact, I don't really like releasing things. I mean, I'm doing it very quickly this time because actually the whole kind of talking up or thing or whatever, I go into a terrible grief process after doing it because I get so into it. And then. It's like the post-show blues. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just like, I like making stuff up, seeing where it lands. I mean, it is apparent because we do watch something like Time or Heaven, especially Heaven, every shot and every introduction of a new look and a new like to have blow is so divine. It's kind of impossible to think that you're not having them last. There's like an ecstasy in it. It's really fun. I was like, what if she says I fucking hate it? No, no, no, no, no. But also David's going to like my brother. So I mean, what is he like? Oh, he's so great. He's so funny. He shot the, he shot, I think, the promo for Trick See Season of All Stars. Yeah. And it was, so we had, I was very jealous because our season sucked. We had no promo. It was, it was shit. And then the next season they have David fucking La Chappelle. No way. And it was, Trick See said it was like amazing and it truly was amazing. Yeah. He's so funny. Yeah. How does that, what does it look like on a set? What's the vibe? Oh my God, chaos. But it organized chaos. Okay. I mean, I've been, gosh, I mean, we've, this sort of, gosh, we've shot for days and weeks and months and sometimes things feel like one long shoot. Fuck. Because I mean, a lot of times, I mean, he sort of, I mean, he essentially, I mean, he'll just, if he says jump, I just say, how, whatever. I just know it's going to be all right. And I thought, okay, well, you know, if something goes terribly wrong, at least I'll look good doing it. Yeah. I mean, that's like, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, kind of like dead on a set, kind of like looking really sort of glamorous. Yeah. I mean, it's, I'm thinking about like, I'm thinking about the evolution of aesthetics and certain trends in, in pop culture and like how, you know, sometimes it go, there's like, the pendulum swings like towards like a super, super advanced technology and then kind of retro and what is the video you have that it's, it's a VHS vibe? Oh yeah. What is that song? That is, that was the beginning of Deviant Disco. Okay. Cause that, I was like, I was like, I was looking through your catalog and I was like, I wonder if she's done like a VHS thing and sure enough, and it's so, it's so fucking good. Like it has the contemporary like, kind of, uh, knowledge of all, all different types of aesthetics and like treating that retro one like with such precision. It's so good. Oh, thank you. I'm sorry. I'm like licking your ass. No, no, no, no, no, no, it's really nice to get feedback because I have no idea. I kind of create in a, in a kind of bubble. How long, so you could, most of the music videos that these horrors do, um, like they take, they do two days maybe and sometimes they do overnight, which is nuts. Right. I loved it. I used to love doing that. How long, what's the longest shoot you've been on? Four days. Without sleep. Yeah. That was evening in space. That was really fun. God, that is, we watched that at my friend Franz's house and, um, what's your favorite? If you have one. Or that I, I love them all for different reasons. If you had to. The hip next mine took three days. Three days. Okay. But that's not, it's nice to have some time and also I think you hit a kind of sweet spot on the second day going into the third. Yeah. The first day is always a bit, everybody sort of like getting themselves together. I mean, it's really nice to be able to have three days shoot. Do you work with different crews or? I know. I've worked, it's lots of people from, especially on the David sets, I've worked again and again with because, just because you know, they're his crew. And then also obviously with Nick Knight. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And I want to, getting into these looks, getting in and out of these looks. Pretty simple actually. Hair and makeup. Come on. The real. I mean the clothes, I'm really fast. Really? I can change to them. About two seconds. As long as the hair and makeup's done, I'm good. Damn. I'm like struggling. I have the, I'm at the back trying to pull up this zipper that I sewed on myself. And it's just. That's really annoying when you have to sort of like do that. Yeah. That's what's nice, having someone, even you've got other people on set, to help you to do that. Have you ever gone home in a gown that you had to like cut yourself out of? Yeah. Yeah. I know you've got that stuff that's, you know, ripped on me and fallen off and whatever. It's tragic. Tragic. That's why the one thing. You know, things just go. Yeah. Yeah. The yoga. It collapsed. Yoga is good for that. It's the, the, this. Yeah, exactly. That and then this. That's the only thing that yoga's good for. Yeah. My God. It's so good. Yeah. What is, um. Oh my God, trying to get in and out of cat suits in lavatory. So sort of, oh my God. Especially when you're loaded up with chains and how on earth am I going to. Yeah. A lot of that shit looks really heavy. It is quite. Yeah. And you, and these are like your signature shoes. I want to talk about having a signature look in, uh, in a, in a world where, um, oh, this is part of my intro. Um, in a world of imitators, she's never replicated something like that. You know what I mean? Oh my God. How do you like, how do you, um, choose and stick with a signature look? It's just kind of what I'm feeling comfortable in. Just whatever. Yeah. It's just whatever. And, and actually I kind of get really boring. I start wearing the same thing every, every single day. But like a uniform. Yeah. Like a uniform. I love uniform. Especially when you're, when you're, when you're recording or something, it's, it don't want to have to spend too much time. What's one thing that you would never wear even with a gun to your head? I have something beige. Like a juicy couture beige sweatpants. Oh, anything kind of brown. I'm not really good with brown. It has to be a very, very sort of, it has to be a very crisp burnt umber. You know, combined with a prussian blue, you know what I mean? It did not get on this sort of autumnal. Oh, you're not a pumpkin spice latte girl. No, no, no, no. I was thinking to myself like, the irony if she showed up today in like kids, a pair of like trousers and like, oh, where would be so fucking funny? Oh my God. Actually, yeah, it's funny for several, I was trying to think they might be, that might make a sort of funny video and I've like, no, I just couldn't. I just would have, I would have a serious reaction. You know, literally like hyaves. I have serious reactions to sort of like some tones of music, some color palettes. Oh, like, okay. So beige. Beige. Well, I mean, yeah, beige, yeah. What about in terms of like decor in the home, in your surroundings, like, do you like bold colors? Do you like stark? Black and white and red and a lot of shiny surfaces, chrome. And white and red. Yeah. Yeah. And chrome and I like dark egg blue and silvery, you know, Swedish 18th century kind of yellows. Oh, hell yeah. I just painted, I live in this, that's a hell hole, but I, I have having to paint these rooms and and I'm like looking around and every, every apartment or every house that is trying to get sold in America is gray, beige, soft beige, light gray, light egg shell, soft egg shell. Like, like, grayish. Oh my God. And it's like, in all the furniture is that color too. And it's either all white, I'm like, so. I quite like all white. You do. Yeah. I mean, I like, what I like using it, well, not if I wish I had a really big place to do, but white wash. White wash. Because then you can add other colors to it. Oh, sure. But also it looks really good. White wash is like lime wash. What does that mean? You know, like in Mediterranean, when you see the houses, white wash. Oh, I like using that on the inside. Like a greezy Mediterranean. Oh yeah. That's gorgeous. Well, if you use that on the inside, you can. Okay. Yeah. That's, that's it. It just gives it a, the walls are kind of, I don't know. It just looks so good. I did what I, I, we painted the walls because they were fucking totally rotted a, a like a semi gloss white and that was cunt. But each room is either like golden rod, like yellow. It's so fucking bright. And it's like, I couldn't believe how. It changes your mood. Yeah. Like instantly. Yeah. Like it's like fucking Prozac. It's actually like way stronger than Prozac. It's like energizing and super, it has a really like strong effect. And then it did absolute like scar like this color red mat in my studio. Oh wow. In the ceilings and everything. And it's like, it's very aggressive. But it's also, it's like motivating. Right. And a little confrontational. Right. But it, but it's nice. And then it did blue. Like, um, like, uh, I just went super, super bold in every room. And I, I'm so glad I did it, but I'm never going to be able to sell this place. Oh my goodness. Because nobody's going to want to live there. Yeah, but people, they repaint. I mean, they just say. I guess. Yeah. What's the, what's your least favorite color if you have one? Such a stupid question. Sorry. What's your favorite color? I never loved any, I suppose. I love green for plants, but I don't wear green. Okay. I don't know. I mean, it's not one, it's, but I love green. I mean, I, it depends. I sort of think in sets of watercolors in a funny way. So it's not, I mean, it's not about, it's about, I think it's about tones of colors. Sure. So, you know, like red can be horrible. It can be. In a red or, I think, what's my least favorite color, synthetic color? Ah, okay. I like old colors. Old colors. When I was at art school, I would steal from the art store that I worked at, the really, really expensive oil paints, you know, because they have the, those like such a different quality to their pigments. And it's like, you get these shitty $2 acrylic tubes or these like $80 senelier like oil tubes. And you're like, holy fuck. It's such a difference. It's like black and white. Yeah. It's wild. I think it's the problem. There's not very much nuance with colors anymore. No. We're living in a very unyorst world, which is kind of unmistirious to me. Yeah. I think people are really, they, it seems like because people have access to everything now, sort of visually via like Pinterest and you can, if you want to know what Chris Jenner's bedroom looks like, we can look at it right now. No way. You know what I mean? Like online, you know, I mean, just like Chris Jenner's bedroom. They were, I'm sure we'll get it. So like, that's so funny. And you're, so like, there's a lot of just like dog piling on trends and they all seem to just kind of get watered down and it's like, it's kind of shitty. So it's kind of depressing. It'll come back. I don't know. I think we're all going to hell. Oh my God. But we'll keep it light. We'll keep it light. Do you, so you're in LA, but you travel a lot. What is your least favorite city to visit and why? Oh, I don't know. We seem, I can't believe you never went to Manchester. I've never been to Manchester. I haven't really, it's funny. My travels have been sort of periphodetic, but in a very strange way. I don't know. I don't have a least favorite city, maybe London. Yeah, I was going to say London. I don't like tough and also it's built on clay. So you feel really kind of exhausted all the time. It's basically a swamp. Yeah. It's swampy. And also for me, it's got bad memories. Yeah. Me too. I've been to London more times than I care to go. Yeah. In no offense to all of the British bands. I mean, I feel so happy when I cross the channel and go get to Paris. It's just improves my mood, no end. I mean, I, But London is just full of ghosts. Oh yeah. For me. Yeah. For me, it's just full of bad breakfast. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my God. Where do you eat for breakfast? I have, it depends. Sometimes I have porridge. Okay. Sometimes I kind of start eating kind of at about midday. Okay. Do you ever have steel-cut oatmeal? Do you ever have steel-cut oatmeal? Yeah, I love that. It's the best. It's the best. Yeah. What about, what's up with the black pudding in the fucking booze? That is so nasty. I've never eaten that. It's diabolical. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's diabolical. When I think of, When I grew up in England, I still love it. I liked canned food because there's no way that I was going to eat anything that looked just like, it was like black pudding or something disgusting. It's like, I feel like it's the diet of an evil sailor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's terrible. No, I prefer to have baked beans on toast to be quite honest. What's your favorite cuisine? If you had to like, say you had to just eat only one cuisine for the rest of your life. Japanese. What's the go-to order? The kind of sushi, obviously. Yes, sort of like salmon sashimi and some, some sort of like udon noodles. We just went to Hawaii and had the, there's an, there was an udon place across the street that there was a line down the block like at all hours of the day. It was so chaotic in there. It was amazing. Oh my God. It was, it was really good. Current designers who are doing or working now, who are you, who are you vibing with? I'd recommend. Oh, okay. He's wonderful. He's at Tom Ford now. Okay. So they, God, they bop around quite frequently. It's wild. The, I, is it, was it Scaparelli? It was a dint, dint, dint. Daniel Rosebrey. That looks pretty cool actually. I think that shit is amazing. Yeah, me too. I haven't, I haven't seen it up close for a while. I mean, I've, I've never been to a fashion show. I've, I imagine. Oh my God, we have to go to one. But you have to cradle me like a baby because I, I, they seem so stressful and so like frantic. And also like, where are you sitting? And like, oh God, I might, I have nightmares and stress streams about getting invited and like going to the front row and somebody in my seat and then I just have to leave. Yeah. Yeah. I always feel like I'm probably don't belong there. I don't think anybody does. What has, what has been your favorite show that you've attended? Well, you know, I think of all the McQueen shows. They're all just brilliant. Like what the fuck? They're all just, you know, The collection where I forget it was the, with the big glass enclosure in the room. Oh my God, that was so much fun. But it's like a Robert Wilson theatrical experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not just like a, we're walking down the runway and we're showing all the garments. There's always, there's always, there's always a twist. Yeah. The like the intense theatricality is like, I, I miss that so much about, because I, I don't know if I see. I mean, John is still doing that. Goliano. Yeah. I think he's wonderful. Oh my God, the fucking Dior when he was, what was, I don't know, was that was 90, early 90s and maybe early- 20s and 2000s. Beyond. Like, you're like, this is when they're, it was the, the set was like almost like a Japanese. Yes. Oh my gosh. Garden kind of thing with like, like all these different levels. And I thought I was thinking, this is like the full, this is like the human brain operating at full tilt creativity. Yeah. I mean, it's so colorful, so outrageous. He's just great beyond, beyond brilliant. So fucking cool. So cool. I also, I love, what the fuck is it? Oh my God. It's not Lagerfeld. No, no, I was going to ask you about Lagerfeld later. Oh my God, who is killing me? Oh, Iris Van Herpen. Oh, she's so nice. She's one of my great friends. She, what is she like? Oh, really, really lovely. Really? Yeah. And her boyfriend, Salvador, we've spent a lot of time together because I knew her before she was really kind of became like, so, you know, we kind of met up. I can't remember, probably 2007 or something. So she's amazing. I mean, it's just so cool. Very humble and really, but she just loves what she does, you know. Oh, thank God. I mean, the, it's like so cool. Like, you know, talking about like originals, it's, it's so cool to like, when you see something, it's like, I've never seen that before. Yeah. You know. She did a whole collection underwater, which was really cool with musical instruments, which that was, that was quite, you should look it up on. Oh, damn, I haven't seen that. Oh my God, that was, that was something else. Yeah, I, I, People playing instruments underwater in the clothes. Shut the fuck up. Really, really cool. I mean, those things, those fashions, there's must have cost a fortune. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's, that's, that's a problem for so many designers. I mean, so I do scholarships at Central St. Martin's for the last 15 years and trying to kind of, you know, when you're seeing all this kind of raw talent and like, how is it going to translate into wherever, because it does cost money and to have a, to be in that world. I mean, you do have to, I think have a bit of a business brain, definitely more than me. Yeah. I know that's, I mean, a lot of times, like in the, Victoria Beckham was talking about, she's like, she didn't have that. She'd go to business school and she's like going through the budget and she's like, $85,000 a year on plants in the office. Wow. It's like, okay. It's insane. But like, but it does, it must be, I mean, it's like in a capitalist consumer kind of world where like, the dollar is the king. I mean, creativity suffers. It must. It does. And you know, not enough, sort of not enough art, art is kind of, I don't know, governments don't seem to get behind art programs. I can't imagine anybody cutting funds to the arts. I know. I can't imagine that. Can't imagine not being the first thing to go. I know. And it's so crazy. And then people, we need more, we need more of it. We need more Satan to nuclear warheads. I know exactly. Do you realize that there are about, I could be wrong about the numbers, but there are maybe four or five submarines in the U.S. arsenal, underwater, somewhere around the world that contain 20 to 40 nuclear warheads that could be launched from underwater and could reach anywhere on earth. So crazy. And each of them cost about $10 million. That's so crazy. But we can't go to like, we, I can't go to fashion school. No, exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's fucking nuts. You know, it is nuts. It is like, it is so twisted. And a culture is defined by its art. I mean, you know. Yeah, not by its Satan to warheads. No, exactly. You can't even see them. Precisely. I mean, if you want to leave anything behind, I mean, so like what future archeologists have digging up this period, I wonder what they're going to think. We'll see. But if they get to you, then we're in good luck. Because it's like, do you, I mean, in terms of like the preservation in the, you know, because you, Isabella Blow had quite a collection of stuff. And then when she passed away, you. I bought it because her sister's, unable to, what was so sort of tragic about the whole thing was that she, one of her sort of paranoias was she was going broke all the time. And she, when she died, her estate had, you know, had, you know, death duties. And her sisters at that time, and they were going to sell it at Christie's. And I just thought, ah, no, no, no, no. Also, I just thought it was just so ghoulish, the whole idea of her sort of effects. And I just, I just felt that it was, it was kind of what, just terrible. So I kind of, I stepped in, I sort of convinced her sister to sell to me. Fucking hell. I did the, the, the death duties, whatever. And then I was like, what do I do with all of this stuff? Because I couldn't wear it, you know what I mean? I did, she was like, well, you should, you'll be able to wear this stuff. I mean, I can kind of put them on now, but still, I feel like Isabella's clothes for sure. So I did, I did a show at FIT, I think it was in 2010 or 11. Yeah, I think so. Can't remember. And I remember just before that show, because like everything I do, that took two years to sort of put together with lovely Valerie Steele. Just, I was standing in this kind of, in the sort of fully kind of, just before they were pulling up the plastic. And I just did a kind of prayer to the universe. I thought, I mean, first of all, I was terrified about anybody seeing this thing. It's a lot of pressure. The Queen had just died. It was, you know, he just, the big savage beauty show up at the Met. Which is... We had to kind of manage that at the same time. So yeah, how did, I mean... It was really, it was, so I kind of made, did this prayer and I thought, if this works out, then somehow I'll just get the funds together. So I sold like a hundred pieces of my collection in order to raise funds to create a foundation, to be able to put on her show at Somerset House. Wow. But it took me walking into Louise Wilson's office at Central St Martin's, and you know, with this crazy idea. And we became very good friends. I mean, Louise was quite a force of nature, to be say. And I wouldn't be her, you know, initial go-to person. I didn't know. It was like a just cold call. Hello. Hello. And what do you think? But she was so supportive and so nice. And the sort of the foundation start was kind of born out of that. Because I, well, I've been trying, what I was trying to, what I'm trying to do, I know it probably doesn't even make a difference, but I'm trying to sort of solve the karmic kind of jigsaw puzzle of trying to kind of create something where all this loss happened. Okay. Does that, I mean, it doesn't make sense to me. But it's been a huge kind of, it's been a massive undertaking. And I would have done more, but I mean, frankly, you know, these things cost a lot of money. I have no idea how to get sponsorship. I have no idea how to do very much apart from writing a song. I don't know how to get my mail. I don't even know how to type. You have no idea how, what is it, how seen I feel right now. Oh, good. I don't know how to type. I've written a book. Oh my God. Two of them actually. And I am a hunt and pecker. Me too. I write in longhand. Me too. If you want, you want a cursive, cursive, on parchment, come to, yeah. I can do Russian script beautifully on a, nobody wants that. No. And nobody is like, I, I, I sort of manuscript some sort of the middle ages. Yeah. That's, I wish I would, I would be much more comfortable with like a, yeah, one of those Italian glass blown. Yeah, exactly. So, but I'm, I'm just, if you're ever bored, which I doubt you are, there's the thing called typing club. Yeah. Oh my God. No, I once I tried with one of those. It's extremely humbling. It's very humbling at 43 years old. Oh my God. I feel like a child. I already assume I don't know anything else. I mean, but it's like, I, I, now I look at people. Can you do it a little bit better now? No. I've been practicing about an average of 25 minutes a day, sometimes two hours, sometimes a miss a whole week, but like I know. It's called typing club. Typing club. And it's free. I'm an envelope. And it's fabulous. You literally go through, you know, you get the placement and then the goal is you never look at the keyboard. That's what I love to do. It's hard on a, on a laptop with very shallow keys. So if you get one of those, if you get a keyboard that has a clack, clack, clack, you know, those like. Like a typewriter. Kind of. Yeah. That's preferable, but it's so, it's so difficult. And so now I just avoid the computer if I can. Oh my God. Or do like voice to text. My kids, my children laugh at me because I can't type. I mean, I could type a novel with my thumbs in about two seconds. Right. Because of this, but like anyways. That's so good. Yeah. I, um, the savage beauty, I was able to see that. So beautiful. That's the met. It was kind of a, it was very surreal because even though I've, I've loved fashion. I've loved art, I went to art school, I've loved drag and everything, seeing the, the, the garments, like there physically was like, kind of cemented the notion that had been a little bit frivolous, that, that fashion was art, you know, that, I mean, these are like just livable, wearable pieces of art work. Um, and it was so, like it was so moving, it was so, it was so good. Yeah. And it, I'm just thinking, like, what a a tragedy to lose these things and also like, not to get too like, you know, heavy, but like, you know, when conflicts and wars happen and they're bombing like historical sites and then they're gone forever. And they've ever, it's so crazy. It's so fucked up. And what's being built in its place as well. Oh God. Yeah, don't get me going. Yeah, no, no, no, no. 1960s, 1970s architecture in Los Angeles, not exactly the golden age. Exactly. Oh, I love the 20s. Exactly. That's it. That's it. If you can get an apartment that was built in the 20s in LA, it's I lived in the ugliest building that was ever made around 1972 and across the street. It can't be quite nice. That sort of, I like quite like the federal building. That sort of, maybe that's English. Yes. It's brutal. Yeah. This isn't brutal. This is like ugliest. Right. Okay. They literally, at every turn, at every choice of material and design, they said, not ugly enough. No, my God. And it's also not cheap enough. So they, but across the street was the Villa de Este, which was a Spanish revival villa with a pond in the front. And it was like, jaw-dropping. You got to look at it. Got to look at it. And then when I went psycho, I actually fell in the pond. Oh no. It was great. But it was just so, it was such a great, if you ever go to Laurel Avenue in West Hollywood, right across the street, it's like night and day. It's so interesting. Oh my gosh. And that's the one thing about London or Europe or anywhere. They're pulling everything down in London. Are they really? Yeah. All these property developers, they just redevelop stuff. And no one seems to say anything. Yeah. I guess it's- Whole blocks of things just going missing. But like you go to Ghent, Belgium? If I try to get, if I try to get any planning permission, it's always a no. Really? Yeah. I don't know why. Bastards. You can't get anything done. Red tape. Yeah, red tape. If you go to a Ghent, Belgium, McDonald's, it's in the most ornate Rococo, like- Oh my gosh. Or Gothic, you know, cathedral. Oh my God. It's so wild. We are really starved for visual beauty in Los Angeles, unfortunately. Oh my gosh. In terms of American cities, do you prefer New York? I like both. But I prefer LA in a way because of the weather, even though it's been raining a bit this week. Yeah. And I like being eight hours kind of far away from Europe. Yeah. It's like, oh, I... Yeah. Actually, I prefer to be in Japan. That's really far away. I've never been there. I'm dying to go. Oh, it's so great. I'm really dying to go back. Is it true that you can just sleep on the ground and never be able to rob you? That is incredible. Yeah. We got to ramp home. There are only 30,000 guns in the whole... There are only a few thousand guns in the whole of Japan. You know, you'd think that other civiliz... Other societies, like Americans, would take a look at that. Yeah. And be like, huh, they seem to have something going on there. Yeah. All their children don't get shot in school every day. You know, it's also an island, so it's more... But so are we. Yeah, that's true. We're just a huge island. Yeah. I mean, we got, you know, steel spiked fences on your side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's Japan. What about European countries to visit? What? France, Spain? I grew up a lot in Spain. Green in Spain. Up in the north in a place called Calais-Cas, which is sort of just about... You can see France from the mountain I grew up on. It's really beautiful. It's, I mean... The Mediterranean side. Like, for a lot of Americans, don't have a passport. A lot of American people don't have the opportunity to travel. I'm very grateful because of the work we get to go places, but it is... That is truly heartbreaking if not being able to just step foot in some of these other places. Yeah, in Italy, so beautiful. And I haven't been nearly enough to Italy. We went to the Amalfi Coast. Oh, my God. We went into the postcards. You know what I mean? We were like... The postcards, we were there. Oh, my God. Through that thing on the blue... Ugh. I've never been... It is... I mean, I've seen it from a thought, but... When I got it, I got there very late at night. In the morning when I woke up from my balcony, I was like... It took me like five minutes to realize it wasn't a sound stage or like a... It was real. Yeah. It was... I was like, holy shit. It was the most beautiful place I've ever seen in my life. It was incredible. Oh, my goodness. You gotta go. It's very touristy. Oh, my goodness. But it's so beautiful. It's like... What about... Have you been to Russia? I've been twice to St. Petersburg. Oh. Yeah. Once in 1991. Oh, God. It was a turbulent time. And then maybe three times. But it was beautiful. Did you like it? Yeah, I did. I've never been to Moscow. Yeah, I'm dying to go. I just wait for who to get... You know what? Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I've been to some ex-Soviet states like Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. But that was in the early 2000s, too. Oh, but that's not... There's a musical genre that I'm kind of flirting with now. It's... I think it's in... I'm listening to this band who sings in Bashkir and it's a throat singing. Oh, yeah, yeah. Mongolian throat singing. Yeah, that. And there's also Central Asian version of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like... Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was like... This... I'll share with you later. It's amazing. To me, it is the sexiest thing I have ever heard in my life. And it's... This is gonna sound like bad. But the way that this guy's voice and the... There's the vibration and the... The tone is like so hot. Yeah, my God. I was like, I gotta find a throat singer husband. Yeah, you do, absolutely. It's so cool. That's so cool. Yeah, it's so cool. There are so many amazing sort of... There are so many amazing things in the world. Yeah, I just... I gotta... Central Asia is a whole... I mean, I watch... Every day I watch a documentary about fucking Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan or Turkmenistan or whatever it is in Palestine. And it's like... Oh, gosh. It's amazing. And you never... You didn't realize until you're sort of like in the middle of nowhere on a horse how far everything is from everywhere else. Yeah, yeah. It's just literally another planet. Yeah, it really is. And when you're in the high kind of mountains. And all these languages that sometimes have no relationship to any other... They're like language family. They trace them back and there's no relation to any other language. It's so fascinating. It's so fascinating. And also what's so funny in that in some of those... When I was there, you'd have kind of... You'd see up in the high mountains sort of collective farms that had been kind of abandoned but also statues of Lenin. And then in the... And then you'd sort of see people that had obviously been brought from kind of Eastern Europe or kind of near Finland. And they were sort of like very out of places, tall sort of blonde people kind of within the population. It's really... I guess they placed people all over such a big country. I think it's got nine time zones. At one point, Soviet Union had 11. 11. At one point, I don't think now, the Russian Federation I think is maybe nine now, but... I think it is 11 still. That is fucking crazy. It is crazy. We got three. Yeah. But it's huge. And I think our country's huge. I think that there's one funny thing is that I think China's got one time zone. That's crazy. That is crazy, because that really is huge. But I think they standardized it throughout. I'd have to look it up. They probably made the time zones. I wonder how they kind of... How they finagle that? Yeah. That's another place I went. Hong Kong, my jaw dropped. Hong Kong was truly breathtaking. It's like New York City jammed into a tropical island. It's like so crazy. So beautiful. That's so amazing. Wait, so we have to wrap up soon, but I have a few rapid fire questions. If you could acquire fluency in a foreign language by chopping off one of your fingers, and you can go up to 10, because you have 10 fingers, would you, and if so, which finger in which language would it be? I would chop off my little finger to speak Japanese again. OK. OK, any more? No. OK. I like my rings too much. Yeah, I think I'd probably only have like pointers left. Yeah. I'd love to be able to speak. I mean, I can speak a few languages, but... What do you speak? I speak French. I speak. I can understand Spanish. It takes me about two or three weeks to get back into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can understand Italian, German. Damn. Bit of Catalan. And that is a distinctly different language than Spanish, right? It is not a dialect. It is a different language. It's kind of more related to some middle French. It's a romance language. Right. Damn. I have a... I don't speak it, but if I'm there, I can... Because it's... You can manage. Yeah. OK, wait, hold on one second. I asked my friend, the guy who introduced me to you, I asked him if he had a question for you and he did. Oh my goodness. Oh, friends, where are you? OK. Let's see. I believe... Oh, I believe yesterday was Isabella Blow's birthday. Does Daphne have a favorite piece from the collection? I'd say the Jack the Ripper. It's a jacket, which is beautiful. What does it describe it? It's... We'll put it up on the pod for the people. Yeah. It's difficult to describe. It's got two long tails and it's kind of got a sort of wired back. And also he sewed her hair into a little plastic. Oh, fierce. I mean, they're kind of amazing. That's incredible. Damn. I got a... I remember I purchased an Alexander McQueen dress. It was designed by Sarah Burton, I think, but it was just a knit dress and it was such an outrageous... I mean, for me, it was like... Yeah, yeah, of course. I was like, I'm going to spend so much money on this fucking stretch dress and I'm going to just go wear this shit out of it. And I just like... And did it last? Yeah, yeah. I love it. Oh my God, that's so good. Yeah, I look at it. I just like open the closet and I just look at it. Oh no, oh my God. I know what you mean. I kind of just like looking at my things, not wearing them because I don't want them to cut because you can't get anything nearly as nice these days. No, everything's shit. Well, I was like, I mean, I think I got this shirt in Chicago. I mean, having to try and kind of source anything good is really difficult. I mean, it is like... Good problem, Sarah. Yeah, I mean, I sew. It's one of my hobbies and there is no greater satisfaction than actually constructing a garment and then wearing it. That's true. I mean, it is like... And the cool thing about sewing, I think, is that you'll never get perfect at it. You'll never be perfect. There's so many things you'll never learn. Oh my God. Like techniques of like... Because in all these ateliers, these incredible Italian women are like, they sew, appliqués onto tool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, it's amazing. It's amazing. They do that for the rest of their lives and then one person does, you know, they do the hems on whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so specialized and it's so skilled. Yeah. And now it's just like pumping out trash from the fast-faction factory. I know, it's really sad. Yeah. I mean, do you... I like slow fashion. That's the other question is like, don't you think the fashion industry needs to chill? Chill. They do need to chill and then just... Spring, summer, resort, ready to wear. It's ridiculous. No, it's ridiculous. Like why? I don't know. Like, that's five or six collections a year. Oh gosh, more. Sometimes, I mean, I think up to sort of 25, 30 collections because then they got accessories and they got this. Oh yeah, the handbags. I think you need to get on the phone and make some phone calls. You got to tell everybody to just chill for a little bit. Yeah, they do need to. Yeah, I think so. It's too much too fast and it's like... Yeah, it's gone so quickly. And then it's like the... Because of the way everything is so globally accessible, it's like, well, I've seen that. I've seen that and it's like the brain wants to move so fast. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your favorite movie? Oh my gosh. Well, it would probably be either... It's sort of like Sunset Boulevard. Okay. I'm ready. Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my fruit cup. Yeah. So cute. I laughed a lot. Oh, do you love that? I loved it. I love that shit. Oh my God. Love it. I love it. Okay, Sunset Boulevard. Least favorite movie. Well, that's kind of a shitty question. I don't want to be a hater anymore. I don't want to be a hater. My controversial take is Reckon Manfred Dream Sucks. Sorry. I've never seen it. Don't. Okay, thank you. That's one off my list. I do suggest... I've seen the September issue, the documentary. Have you seen that? No. I've seen it about 10 times. Is it great? I believe it is. I'm gonna see it. It just follows in a winter at Vogue, doing the September issue around 2000 and early 2000s, 2009. 2009. It's a fabulously paced, gripping, wonderful slice of life. How brilliant. Yeah, and it's something like splashy or like... Yeah, yeah, yeah, but just interesting. Interesting. And Grace Connington is wonderfully featured. She's brilliant. She's so brilliant. And I chased her down to New York City once, and I think I scared the shit out of her. But I just like, I had to say hi and say I love you when I just ran the other way. Oh my goodness. So, yeah. Okay, we have to fucking end. It's been such a pleasure. But we have to plug, plug, plug. Oh my goodness. So, plugged. Oh yes, I got a single out, which came out last week, I think. Okay. That was made in a day. And it's up on YouTube. Yeah, and it's on fucking iTunes and Spotify. It's on iTunes and Spotify and Tidal. So if you don't... And it will be on vinyl record. Oh hell yeah. For the oldies. That's what we like. To be or not to be. I know, I was listening over here. To be or not to be. Exactly. So if you don't download it, I will unalive myself. Pew, pew. Pew. You can find, I implore you to watch a Daphne's YouTube channel. All the videos are unbelievable beautiful. Oh thank you so much. And it's rare that like, we hawk shit that sucks sometimes. So this is a rare opportunity to like, really point them into the directions of people. Oh thank you so much. So thank you so much for being here. You are a legend. Thank you. Yay. Oh great. Just one tasty tablet kills fleas and ticks for a whole month. No mess, no stress. Just one tasty chew. Advantage chewable. Flea and tick protection made easy. Find out more at advantagechewable.co.uk. Easy to love, easy to protect. Advantage chewable.