What made you confident that you could do something that hadn't been done before? I have no fear of failure. Trailblazing women changing the game. One of my favorite pieces of advice, think about what your boss's boss needs. Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself. Life is short and you just got to think big to accomplish big things. Julia Borsten hosts CNBC Changemakers and Power Players. New episodes every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts. Bring in show music, please. This is Squawk Pod, and I'm CNBC producer Cameron Costa. On today's episode... In Minneapolis, protesters are in the streets after an ICE officer shot and killed U.S. citizen Rene Good. Republican Senator Bill Hagerty responds to the resulting questions about immigration enforcement around the country. I support whatever it takes to get these people that shouldn't be here out of our country. Period. Full stop. And in Iran, the government has restricted internet and phone access, as thousands of protesters there have taken to the streets across 100 cities. President Trump has threatened intervention as the Iranian government cracks down on its population. It's their business, but I think it'd be good for the world and for the Middle East. For the Iranian people. Plus, California's wealth tax debate is in national headlines. Billionaires are sparring with lawmakers and there's a growing wealth gap. San Jose Mayor Matt Mahan on the taxes his city relies on. Ironically, I think this may ultimately push the burden onto working and middle class families as this proposed tax generates capital flight. Why he opposes the proposal alongside many tech leaders in the state. I think we ought to ask government to do better before we ask taxpayers to pay more. It's Friday, January 9th, 2026, and Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand Becky by in three, two, one, cue it please. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We are live from the Nasdaq market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick, along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. And on this Friday morning, Friday, Friday, Friday, couldn't get here fast enough this week. And then there's Venezuela. President Trump says that there won't be a second wave of attacks on Venezuela following the U.S. operation to seize Maduro last weekend. In an early morning post on True Social, the president said another attack, in his words, looks like it won't be needed. But that U.S. ships around Venezuela will stay in place for security purposes. He also said large oil companies will invest at least $100 billion in the country. Marathon Petroleum told Reuters it's interested in bidding for Venezuela's oil. Chevron, two global trading houses, and other firms are reportedly competing for deals to export Venezuelan crude. I'm just looking through the rundown. I don't think we're going to talk about Iran right now, but man, oh man. We will talk about it throughout the show. And there's, you know, it's hard to get exact information out of there. as the only cameras on the street are from the government. But there are casualties. The regime finally admitted that. Reportedly, as many as 47 people. We have said that, and thousands may be injured, but it's been pointed out that they can be brutal to put down these... Oh, it looks like we are going to do. What's crazy, and I've read some comments from Kamin E and others that you're ruining your own streets to try to satisfy Trump. So, I mean, it's all about, you know, the great Satan. And the great Satan is involved with what's, you know, it's not this organic move by the people of Iran. We've got people in there supposedly, you know, stirring things up. Meanwhile, we are going to talk about it. Iran restricted Internet and phone access overnight. Thousands of protesters appearing to take the streets across the country in as many as 100 cities, reports say, follows this violent crackdown by the country's security forces that left dozens dead. The protests sparked in part by soaring inflation and the collapse of Iran's currency versus the U.S. dollar this week. And then yesterday, President Trump repeated his warning that the U.S. would intervene if more protesters are killed. On state television, Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei referred to President Trump, saying protesters are, in his words, ruining their own streets to make the president of another country happy. This is the playbook. Not recognizing the desperation that comes from. This has been the playbook in the past, but I'll go on it. I hope this is, you know, it's their business, but I think it would be good for the world and for the Middle East. For the Iranian people. And for the Iranian people. In the meantime, Johnson & Johnson reaching a deal with the Trump administration to cut drug prices for Americans. in exchange for exemptions from U.S. tariffs. Now, in December, the administration reached agreements with nine other major pharma companies to cut drug prices for Medicaid and self-pay patients. Specific terms of the J&J agreement, including updated prices on specific drugs, not covered, or I say covered, were not disclosed. So we don't know just yet. Johnson & Johnson also said it will build two new manufacturing facilities in North Carolina and Pennsylvania as part of a $55 billion U.S. investment plan announced already, though, last year. Shares of Glencore jumping on news that a possible $260 billion merger with Rio Tinto is back on the table. That's got to be combined market caps, right? Yeah. Come on. Did we just throw it around like it happens every day? $260 billion. Has there ever been an actual $260 billion merger? Rio's $105 billion. I have to think about that. I still believe that the largest merger in history was the hostile transaction that Vodafone pursued of Mannisman in the year 1999. That's not what I would have come up with. For $183 billion. Based on it? I believe $183 billion, and that was an actual market cap. That was on the tip of my tongue. Vodafone Mannisman. Very good statistic. There you go. A little history. I was covering that deal back in the day. See? M&A. I'm just going to make the point that if you're there, when something happens, it helps later in your life to be able to call back and draw upon things that happened in the past. And that each year you actually can become even, until you start slipping, but you can become actually. But good. Thank you. What was Time Warner? That was big at the time. It was about 100-something. That was a big one. Yeah. This is not $260 billion, right? We figured out. It's one or the other. We can't add them together. And then they throw in debt, and the next thing you know, we're at a trillion-dollar merger. At a certain point when it was first announced, but they didn't pay it, it was supposed to be $165 billion. For one or the other. Time Warner. Oh, for Time Warner. Yeah, I'm just looking at that, too. $182 billion. So, AOL, you've got mail. That they were supposedly going to, their stock was going to be enough to buy Time Warner. We thought that at the time. That's strange. Make you wonder if anything else is overinflated these days? Overpriced dogs for overpriced cats. And anyway, this deal would create the world's largest, we digress, the world's largest mining company, Glencore and Rio Tinto, both on significant copper assets. They talked about merging in late 2024. Those talks collapsed over issues like valuation and the future of Glencore. Hold on. Cheese will be next. Coming up on Squawk Pod, it's an election year again. We are months out from the 2026 midterms, but the business of Congress this year is very much a game of back and forth. Republican Senator Bill Haggerty joins us on two key votes in Washington yesterday, and Republicans crossing sides to challenge the president on war powers in Venezuela and extending the Obamacare insurance subsidies. When it comes to health care, Haggerty says there is real work to do. We're trying to eliminate the fraud. The program is clearly broken. What made you confident that you could do something that hadn't been done before? I have no fear of failure. Trailblazing women changing the game. One of my favorite pieces of advice, Think about what your boss's boss needs. Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself. Life is short and you just gotta think big to accomplish big things Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC Changemakers and Power players New episodes every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts You're listening to Squawk Pod. Here's Joe Kernan. Stand by Joe. And three, two, one, his mic. Q. Senate agenda has started the year off with Venezuela, health care and affordability. Join us now, Senator Bill Hagerty. And we're just talking off camera about things yesterday. The president got pretty angry that I think four senators on the Venezuela bill. What did that Venezuela bill really mean for our policy or the president's policy? It doesn't have an immediate impact because it was a procedural vote to actually move to a discussion and debate on this next week. And that's what's going to happen. Senator Federman, for example, said he was going to support the procedural move, but he will not vote to support it. I think there were four. Yeah, and there are a few Republicans. This isn't an unusual situation, particularly coming into midterm elections, where you have senators that are in tough situations. I'm not going to try to judge what my colleagues' motivations might have. We see it on both sides of the aisle. We see crazy stuff. But this is not a time where it's unusual to see an elected official break with the president. They know if something's safe, a lot of times, though, for their own local political situation, they'll go the other way knowing it doesn't make a difference. That happens. Kabuki theater sometimes. What about the, we did see how many, 17 Republicans voted with Democrats yesterday on the subsidies. In the House. In the House, yes. Again, it's the same situation. That same bill in concept was put forward before Christmas in the Senate. It didn't make it. We had side-by-side bills. One Republican, you know, Republican-sponsored bill, the other Democrat-sponsored bill. We just don't have a meeting of the mind yet. Right. Susan Collins, the Senate Republican, and is leading a group of Republicans who are working on some changes to that bill. Actually, several senators are, Becky, working on a variety of things. But what they're trying to do is address a number of things. One is to put the funds in the hands of the people as opposed to directly subsidizing the insurance. Through an HSA. And they're working along those lines. There's a significant amount of fraud that we've uncovered. In 2021, under President Biden, we went to this zero premium plan that was made available. Since that's happened, a normal private plan will have about 15 percent of the enrollees in a given year. not make a claim. It's up to 40 percent of people that are enrolled here. The brokers are being paid roughly $1,000 per enrollee. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that people have been signed up, don't even know they have the insurance. So this money is going straight to the bottom line of the insurance companies. People don't know, not even aware that they're insured. Tremendous amount of fraud. But is that a quick fix if you just get rid of those zero payment plans? It certainly is one of the quick fixes that that had been discussed. I don't know why the Democrats are resistant to this. We're talking about a minor de minimis payment, but that would at least notify the individual that they've got insurance that they're having to make a monthly, even if it's $5 to make a payment. And there's resistance even to that. And we're trying to eliminate the fraud. The program is clearly broken. The rate of escalation of insurance premiums under Obamacare since it was founded in 2014, 260% increase. That's more than 2x the average private sector premium. In my home state, it's even greater than that. We had budget chair Arrington on yesterday. He talked about that vote in the House and he's saying I hope we don't get a lot of Republicans that I guess he was foreshadowing. He knew that there were going to be quite a few. He wants to fix everything in another reconciliation bill. There's a significant amount of discussion about a reconciliation bill. That's an option that's open to us right now. Senator Graham on the Senate side is talking about the same thing. I mean it sounded like Congressman Arrington is going to happen. I mean it's going to happen near near term. Would that be similar to what you were just talking about? That would be one means to fix it. And in that regard, it could be a wholly Republican product. But right now, I think there are bipartisan discussions that are taking place. So we'll see where it lands. Remember, the president has a pretty good, holds a lot of sway in both chambers with Republicans. When he lost four yesterday on the Venezuelan vote, I don't know what you say, it's procedural, but then 17 on this this other thing and there's you know obviously there's republicans working with democrats on the on the subsidies would you say that he is losing his grip at all at this point on on you know i i wouldn't say that one bit in fact i i think the support for president trump is is as strong as you would you have ever seen it i think what you're seeing is the typical process that happens coming into midterm elections and you've got vulnerable candidates that are that are that are taking moves that may be helpful to them in their particular constituency but i don't think that's a broad There's time and there are some numbers that we'll see today with the job numbers that did you see the trade deficit yesterday? That was like Rick Santelli almost, his teeth almost, he doesn't have dentures but I thought they almost came, it was cut in half basically. Maybe it's imports, there's not as much demand but definitely there's more export. And you had I think Atlanta feds at 5% or something on GDP. Is there enough time for Republicans to pull something out of their hat in November? Do you think it's possible that the Republicans hold the House if things start going well? I absolutely do. You do? Because they never do during midterms. No, it's not typical. It's not typical, and I think that will explain a lot of behavior that you're seeing right now in both bodies, both the Senate and the House. But what I see on the horizon is a tremendous amount of capital expenditure that's coming into play. go back to the trade negotiations that have taken place. That's benefiting my own state significantly. Irregulation. All $57, $78 when Trump came in. Sorry, Andrew. No, I was just going to ask, which is, I think, maybe more of a social issue, but it goes to, like, just what's going on politically in the country. What your reaction to the situation with this ICE matter in Minnesota that everybody's been watching on social media and on television for the last 48 hours, and how you react to watching that, the idea that an American was killed by an ICE agent. The situation is tragic. There's no question about that, Andrew. But the greater tragedy, in my mind, is when you have elected leaders encouraging non-cooperation with federal authorities. And it's rooted in various jurisdictions where you've had people attacking ICE agents. the number of threats against ICE agents have gone up to the roof. I mean, over a thousand percent. It's time for people to start cooperating. How do you feel? I mean, how do you think you personally feel and how do you think your constituents feel when you watch videos of ICE agents wearing masks, oftentimes without any kind of, you know, labeling about even who they are or what they're doing, ripping people out of. I mean, you've seen these videos. I'm not the first to tell you about these things. These are things that we as Americans, I don't think have seen, at least in my lifetime. Do you think that your constituents look at that and say, we love that? That's great. Why have you seen it? I'm asking. I know, but yesterday we talked about five million deportations under Obama. The reason you didn't see it was because the left wasn't obstructing every single deportation. I'm asking the senator, what do you think your constituents, your constituents say to you, I love this. Do you look at that, the idea of these mass agents and say, this is what you want? This is an answer that's very easy with my constituents, because the violation of our immigration laws that took place, massive violation of Joe Biden, was absolutely a top issue for voters in Tennessee. And I think that was the case broadly across the country. What people want is a law and order, and the law and order was completely destroyed at our southern border with Joe Biden. There's been an influx of people, pressure on social systems. Let's stipulate and agree that You're right about that. My question is a slightly different question. My question is, do you believe that agents that are oftentimes unmarked wearing masks in various cities and counties around the country, that that's something that you support? I support whatever it takes to get these people that shouldn't be here out of our country, period, full stop. They've already doxed the shooter. I support protecting their own identity, too, because they've been doxed. Their families have been threatened. The individual, because we know who he is, because he was dragged 300 feet in a car by a car previously. So they've doxed him already. They're going to dox everybody. If you were an ICE agent, would you not want to be? He's been doxed for a different reason, which is actually that some of the government officials released enough information about that person for them to be discovered. Fair enough. And by the way, it's the job of reporters and the public to figure out these things. But if you were an immigration agent, would you want everyone to know who you were and your family and where you lived with the reaction of that? There are traveling bands of people ginned up to go wherever there are ICE agents right now by the left to block obstruct and do everything they can By the way look obviously obviously I would never in a million years encourage How about this Hold on I would never in a million years encourage... Well, that's what they're doing. Hold on. But I wouldn't encourage that... Good for you, but it's being done. In any way whatsoever. It's being done. But one of the reasons, and I'm not saying that there's a valid reason for it at all, but I do think there's a lot of Americans that look at this scenario with this sort of the mass agents thing and say, this is crazy. And they are against that. And therefore, that's part of what they're protesting. Let's put it. Let's put it in content. Now, here, the journal, maybe you can agree with this. The heated way Mr. Trump has gone about his mass deportation policy and the equally heated way that the left has opposed it made a violent collision inevitable. But we had 12 million come in under Biden. Trump's gotten rid of 350,000. Obama deported and sent back 5 million without a word from the left. So what do we do about the 12 million that came in to vote Democratic? I don't know about that. Well, I do. But the reason that you didn't have the protest... The senator would like to say something. I'd like to ask the senator this. I imagine that, I think you'd agree with me, the reason why you didn't have protests about ICE under Obama was because you did not have images of masked ICE members ripping people out of cars. They've got to be masked because of the way the left is. And you didn't have the set of circumstances that require them to protect their identity. Exactly. I think that's the point that Joe's making, and I agree with that. The other point that Joe made that warrants a real discussion here is what was the motive behind all of this flood of people coming into the country? Whether the number is 12 million, I've heard numbers even higher than that. Exactly what it was. The motivation was very clear, and every one of my Senate colleagues made it clear when I put on the floor legislation that would require the census not to count illegal aliens for the purpose of allocating congressional districts and electoral votes. That's what's being done right now. It's a backfill. It's the biggest backfill ever to basically count these people and give disproportionate voting power to states like California, states like New York, where we are right now. Blue cities that create a sanctuary are creating magnets to backfill the laws of population. Connect the dots. Tim Walz put up a Somali flag instead of a Minnesota flag to appeal to that constituency to get more campaign contributions to then put a bunch of fake child care centers. Basically, it's it's it it runs all the way through the fabric. I am not disputing with you. There's no we have no disagreement about the fact that there was a lot of people into this country. So what do you do now? There's a question about how you how as Americans, we have a justice system. that should deal with this and whether this system, the way we're approaching it, which does not look very much like the way we've done this in the past. I would agree with that, too. I think it's unprecedented, Andrew. It's unprecedented. You've got federal officials calling ICE Gestapo and saying, please go ahead and disrupt this and make sure that they're Nazis. What do you expect when the left? You can't deport these. 350,000. We didn't hear a word about 5 million. I'm just saying there are people who are watching us who think that you're justifying the murder of an American in the past 72 hours. This is a tragic accident that needs to be investigated. Yesterday you were saying Trump's got blood on his hands because of this woman? I did not. First of all, I didn't say that he had blood on his hands because of this woman. If you want to say that, you can say that. But by the way, to some degree, the way that this has been approached and the way the administration is approaching this and the fact that actually somebody was killed, that exists. Two more people were killed again by ICE. They were also obstructing. They drove it, whether she did or not. I mean, that's going to be part of this investigation, and there's different angles from all the videos. But it's a tough business, and I don't envy what ICE agents are up against. Back to Andrew's point. It is an unprecedented situation. This is not something that we've seen before. But, Joe, you're right. It's because the left has decided to mount a massive campaign to try to block law enforcement. It's because these agents sadly have to protect their identity because they're being doxxed, they're being outed, their families are being threatened. It's a sad state of affairs that needs to come to an end. And I think leaders on both sides of the aisle should sort of take down the heat. And the last thing we need are for federal leaders or state-level leaders to be encouraging the resistance to ISIS. You saw the mayor of Minneapolis. That guy has got a screw loose. There's no doubt. And I don't think Tim Walz comported himself very well. Right? I'm not commenting on any other. We can each express our opinions about what we think is going on. I don't think that it's, I certainly don't think that trying to do this, then you blame that for an unfortunate death. It's interesting that we're talking about how tight the Congress is, the votes that are happening in the midterm. It's extraordinarily close. And so control of Congress is a very key dimension of all of this. And it's back to what you said earlier, Joe. the reason the border was collapsed, the reason these 12 million people came into the country had a lot to do with changing the voting dynamics here in America. Did you know we were going to do this? Talk about that. I like when the senator said, I've got something to say about it. I'm here. Good discussion. Yeah. Welcome to Squawk Box. We said it was opinion day. I guess it really is. Senator, thank you. Thank you. Good to be with all of you. Thank you. Happy New Year. Appreciate it. Thank you. Next up on Squawk Pod, the proposed state wealth tax that has captured national attention. California's billionaires and its lawmakers sparring over the right way to solve the wealth gap. San Jose Mayor Matt Mahan joins us with his take. I'm worried that the unintended consequences of this proposed wealth tax could be devastating for our innovation economy here in Silicon Valley. What made you confident that you could do something that hadn't been done before? I have no fear of failure. Trailblazing women changing the game. One of my favorite pieces of advice, think about what your boss's boss needs. Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself. Life is short and you just got to think big to accomplish big things. Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC changemakers and power players. New episodes every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts. This is Squawk Pod. You're watching Squawk Box on CNBC on this Friday morning. I'm Andrew Ross Sorkin, along with Joe Kernan and Becky Quick. The proposed wealth tax on California billionaires, sparking a high stakes debate over inequality in the state's innovation economy. One Democrat speaking out against the proposed measure joins us right now, San Jose Mayor Matt Mahan. Good morning to you. We've been having this debate and it's been playing out not just in your own state, but in some ways across the country. We've had a number of folks from Silicon Valley on our broadcast. And of course, there's a debate going on in your state. Why don't we start with just explaining your position on this? And I'm very curious, not only about your own position, but how you think about your position as it relates to some of the more progressive players in the state right now? Sure. Well, as the mayor of the largest city in Silicon Valley, I'm deeply concerned by a proposal that is coming from a place of genuine concern about economic inequality. That's a real issue. It's an issue that deserves serious response. I don't think that our political leaders at a federal level have done enough to address economic inequality, but I think there are better alternatives, other ways of closing tax loopholes and generating revenue and leveling the playing field for folks. I'm worried that the unintended consequences of this proposed wealth tax could be devastating for our innovation economy here in Silicon Valley. The state's finances, ironically, I think this may ultimately push the burden onto working and middle class families as this proposed tax generates capital flight. We're already seeing that. What do you think the chances are that it actually passes? I think it can be defeated because at the end of the day, Californians have common sense. And when they hear the arguments and understand the potential implications, I think it won't pass. But the damage is already being done. We've seen multiple billionaires, job creators, including Larry Page, the co-founder of one of California's most iconic companies, leave the state. This is going to have long-term consequences. and it's a problem. It's ironically, Silicon Valley is a model for economic mobility, upward mobility and opportunity. My dad was a letter carrier and I came here and worked in the tech industry myself. And that's how I broke into the middle class in many ways. And so I just, I think that the unintended consequences of this misguided proposal could be devastating for the state and it's working in middle-class families. You know Ro Khanna we had him on this broadcast many times He has walked a tight rope given his constituency for a very long time both trying to support the tech community in some ways but also being on a more progressive almost Bernie Sanders kind of left if you will And now there is some talk that there could be could be an effort afoot to try to oust him. What do you know about that? Well, I've been approached about challenging Congressman Conner, which is not something I'm interested in doing. One thing I'll say for the congressman is that he engages in robust debate and back and forth with anyone, which I really respect. I know he's listening. I know he's talking to a number of tech leaders and entrepreneurs, and I sincerely hope he reconsiders his position. You know, though, Congressman Conner said something that is really important in his back and forth with Governor Newsom, who himself on this issue, I think, has shown real political courage by also pointing to the reality of what could happen. But Congressman Kanna's point about waste, fraud and abuse in government is is right on. I'm glad he's talking about that, because just in the last few years in California alone, credible sources estimate that we've had 20 to 30 billion dollars in fraudulent unemployment claims, huge amounts of waste in our health care system. So I think we ought to ask government to do better before we ask taxpayers to pay more. California is a high tax state, has a very progressive tax structure. In fact, the top 1% of income earners generate 40% of the income tax revenue in California already. So let's close loopholes, but also realize that there's a lot of waste and fraud in government that we ought to be going after first before we put our innovation economy at risk. Mayor, I don't know if your ears were burning, but we were talking about you the other day. And I think maybe your quote, I didn't misinterpret it, but it just sort of sticks in my craw when you say, yeah, it would feel good up front to get rid of all these billionaires. I think you were more or less talking about certain people that look at billionaires that way. But I think it's misplaced. I think it's dangerous. I think billionaire envy is misplaced and stupid. And I don't think billionaires are responsible for the inequality. In fact, I think if there was any group of people that are in a position to maybe help with wealth inequality, it's job creators and wealth creators where shareholders benefit. And then, you know, the employees these guys create or guys and gals create then pay taxes. And then those taxes can be used to try to equalize opportunity for the people that are getting the short end of the stick. And I just I don't even like acknowledging that there is a good reason to hate billionaires. I think it's stupid and misplaced and misguided. Don't say it. Let me comment on that. Yeah. So fair enough. And I look, I'm not saying it feels good to me. I'm just I'm trying to figure out how to empathize with those who are proposing this. And the reality is there is real economic pain and uncertainty out there. Cost of living is the biggest issue on people's minds. And the reality is that these are public policy failures that are leading people to grasp for policies that are going to backfire. We need to get out of the way and build more housing. We need energy abundance to bring down costs. We need to do things to make people feel that. Are you a Democrat, Matt? Matt, you're a Democrat? What's that? You're a Democrat? Yes, I am. Seriously? Because I think government has a role to play in providing public goods that the market won't otherwise provide. You make a lot of sense, but you can't move back here and run for New York City mayor. That I can't help you with. Good luck. Nobody can. Nobody can. Nobody can help us with that. Yeah. So, Matt, the other piece of this, I don't know if you we had Robert Frank on earlier this week. there's a question mark and there's a technical issue about whether you believe possibly even those folks who have potentially already left the Peter Thiel's of the world or Larry Page's of the world that almost retroactively this could get counted if you will meaning that meaning that that they could be on the hook even even having left depending on how you look at the dates have you focused on any of the any of the technical issues because I think there's a lot of people who are focused on that right now. Well, I think you're right. And, you know, I don't know the answer. I suspect it'll have to be litigated. But that very kind of uncertainty is destructive already. And I think there was a rush to leave the state before December 34 or January 1st, because folks felt that that date was the point at which it would be retroactive to if it were to past. I think it can be defeated, but it's one more sign that California's political leaders are and powers that be, powerful interest groups in the state, don't really understand and respect how the economy works and how we, to the earlier point, how wealth is generated, opportunities created. But we also have to look in the mirror and recognize these proposals don't come from nowhere. People are feeling uncertainty and fear. Cost of living in California is out of control. They've just misdiagnosed the problem. And it's up to us as public leaders to own the problem and say, we're going to build more housing. We're going to invest in infrastructure to help you get around more efficiently. Here's a tax question for you. So one of the things you can be against a wealth tax. And I've had lots of questions about whether a wealth tax makes sense for a lot of reasons because of because of the the issues of actually having to realize the gains, which are not realized in this case. How do you feel about, for example, a lot of folks who've made an extraordinary amount of money in California, who effectively take loans out against the stock so that they never pay taxes, or that they don't pay taxes until they pass their wealth onto their children at death. And then, of course, that gets, quote, unquote, stepped up. And then there's effectively a massive missing piece of tax along the way, Even though I do recognize that actually at death there is a tax, but it is a much smaller tax. That's right. Well, I think you've pointed to the primary loophole I'd like to see closed. Now, I think it has to be closed at a federal level. And I'd encourage Congressman Kahn to focus on pursuing this at the federal level where he represents us here in Silicon Valley. But, yeah, you shouldn't be able to indefinitely borrow against your unrealized gains as a way of avoiding ever paying taxes on those gains. And I think Bill Ackman's had a good proposal on how to address that. It makes sense. That would be the first loophole I'd look to close. It's not the only loophole. And back to my earlier point, we also have to be honest that there is a lot of waste in government and outright fraud. And so it's not it's not either or. We need to close loopholes. We need to make government better. but let's not pursue tax policy that is going to backfire. And we've seen it. This has played out before. A dozen European countries have tried wealth taxes. I believe nine of them have already rolled them back. The majority of them actually reduced their overall tax base because people respond to incentives. Okay. Matt, I want to thank you for waking up early, speaking to us today. Matt, what about Minneapolis? Could you move there and run for mayor? Would that, uh, no? I'm pretty happy where I am. You're talking about Bill Ackman. He's up on that. He's got sun. He's got... Yeah, maybe you don't want to move. It's cold there. It's cold there. It is cold. Thanks, Matt. That's Squawk Pod for today. Thank you for listening today and every other day. Squawk Box is hosted every weekday morning by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin, all of whom have projects beyond our three-hour TV show. Becky just launched CNBC Cures, an initiative zeroing in on rare diseases. She also launched a new, very special and very personal podcast. The Path with Becky Quick is available right now on your SquawkPod feed. Of course, if you follow SquawkPod, you'll have easy access to that podcast and this one. So go ahead and do that. In the meantime, we will get ready for a full week of all new podcasts starting Monday. Have a great weekend. And we are clear. Thanks, guys. Thank you so much. come down to just trusting yourself. Life is short and you just got to think big to accomplish big things. Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC Changemakers and Power Players. New episodes every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts.
