Misery in Madrid

From 30 for 30 podcasts. Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami, gunned down. The key to this case, it's Brian. An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing what's about. This might be a hit. You want the truth. They just want a conviction. They're placing the arrest. We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now. Welcome in to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas, joined by Ali Moreno. We'll kick things off in La Liga and a shock at the Santiago Bernabeu. Real Madrid losing to Getafe by one goal to nil. A brilliant goal in the first half and the visitors proves to be decisive as Getafe take all three points from their city rivals. And what a gift it is for Barcelona who remain for clear. at the top of the table. Some more, let's welcome in. Mario Malkio was watching this for us, as was Luis Garcia. Ali, I want to start with you. You look at those stats and people might think, Madrid were just a bit unlucky today, up against a great goalkeeper, a solid defence. And no, they were not. There was something in the game that was repeated time and time again. Patterns of play. It was brought up by our commentary team, and Stewie kept mentioning. it. And it sounds like a nebulous concept. What does that even mean? Well, in the case of Real Madrid, it means, hey, how about you see some semblance of a game plan as to what they want to do in the attack, as they build an attack. And what is obvious to me, and it was obvious if you're watching the game, is that if there's no Kylian Mbappe, they're going to say, well, Vinny is going to be really the player that is going to do something for us offensively. And rightfully so. But you have to have variety to your attack. If you're going to break through a team like Getafe that are so well suited to defend, organized behind the ball, there has to be variety. It can't just be the ball being played to Vinny and then touch, touch, touch, touch, touch, which we mentioned at halftime. Nothing really comes of it. Turnover, and now Getafe goes in the attack. And this happens regularly. Again, as it pertains to patterns of play, there just isn't for Real Madrid. That's why it's brought up all the time. There isn't, hey, we complete a couple of passes here. We find the center forward. He drops the ball off. We find the switch to the point of attack to turn Alexander Aron on the other right-hand side. We've changed the attention from Getafe just from the left-hand side to then they have to go over to the right-hand side. And then we're serving the ball into the box. And you have attacking players joining from the midfield. None of that is happening organically for Real Madrid. There isn't a game plan per se as to how is it that we're going to break this team that is so organized behind the ball. And that in itself is troubling. It's troubling not because it's just this game, it's because it happens regularly with Real Madrid. That there isn't a real idea, plan, identity. How are we going to go about breaking teams down? It has been, up until now, individual brilliance. Today, that wasn't enough. Luis is a Getafe, let's not forget. 16 times in a row they've gone to Santiago, Bernabéu and lost. This is a game that Real Madrid traditionally win and win easily. But yet again, as we've seen throughout this season, Ali sums up perfectly, there's just no cohesion in this side whatsoever. Yeah, exactly. And it's something that is not from today or from the last week. We've seen the whole season when Xavi Alonso was in charge, even when Ancelotti was in charge. But some of the results, they were in their side, so they won a couple of leagues at the moment. You could see that there is not creativity in the middle of the park. of those problems to bring the ball in good condition to the players up front. Today it was all about Vinny Junius. How can we bring that ball to Vinny Junius as quick as possible? Because he's the only one who can be a threat. We can be that line of five players that Bordalas, the manager of Getafe, has put in front of you and nothing else. And we saw and we talked about it. Ale mentioned in the last game that Gonzalo played in the 11th starter because Ekele Mbappe wasn't ready. He's a player who is good, very good in his movement, in his awareness inside the box, in his finishing, going in the air, but also with his feet. Alexander Arno was today in charge of trying to bring that ball to Vinicius Jr. or to the players running from the midfield into the second line. Nothing happened in that occasion. No one chance. Alexander Arno put a good ball for Gonzalo or a good ball for Vinicius Jr. in the run or someone from the middle of the park. Three midfielders, no one making any run into the second line. So in the end for Getafe line of defence, it was fantastic. We just have to double up in the Vinicius Jr. side and that's about it. And that's what they did in the second half and it worked and it worked perfectly. So in the end, Getafe deserved this win because they had a plan. They executed it perfectly and Bordalas knew that at some point they will have that opportunity to score that first goal. Mario, what would you like to say about this, sir? It says, you know, like if you play against a team that is, you know, doesn't have the quality like you, you also have to remember that they're going to defend so fast. If you see the tempo they were playing in the first half, how quickly they, even if they lost the ball, everybody was back in their position. So, you know, you have to come up with something creative. And I was waiting for something creative and still have, look, put everything to a side away from them not being so creative like what we expect from Real Madrid. They still had enough opportunities to score a goal. because even towards the end, the opportunities, Rodrigo had two, Fini, of course, in the start he had one, and then the header from Rudiger, and then I don't know what happened to the young man. He tried to header the ball, Dean Heiser, but I think he was looking at the post. Just like Eli said, I think he was worried more about the post. So overall, what I think, the key thing for them is, regardless if you miss some of your key players, like Mbappe, and something that can open things up for you. And even when you're stuck, you still have to manage to open and don't put it on one individual. Because that one individual, like you guys said, they doubled them up and it's finished. You know, one closes the inside, Iglesias closes the outside, and then it's finished. It's finished. You cannot dribble them. What's Arbelova doing in training, Ali? What are they doing? Well, this is a very good question then. And some people may think that that is a joke of a question, but it's not. It is a fair question. What are they doing in training? Because it doesn't show up on the field. Now, this is what we do for a living. We watch games time and time and time again, and we analyze the games. And part of what we analyze and look for is, okay, what is the game plan? What is it that this team is going to depend on in order to win matches consistently? And oh, I'm so surprised that Getafe sat behind the ball today. Everybody coming into the match would have known that that was going to be the game plan of Pepe Bordalas and Getafe. So it should not be a surprise to Garbeloa, nor should it be a surprise for Real Madrid. And yet, what's obvious to me is that because there doesn't seem to be a game plan, and things are not going their way, and it's not as smooth as they thought it was going to be, instead of problem solving, they start pointing the finger. They start pointing the finger at the referee. They start pointing the finger at the other team. People are getting frustrated with themselves, with others. Now they're getting caught up with the boos of the crowd, and they lose sight of what's going to make them a successful team. And that is playing at a high level consistently regardless of the opposition. And so there is, to answer your question, because I've taken the scenic route to get there. To answer your question, I don't see what the work has been in training. And he hasn't been with the team just for a week now. It's been a while. You need to see what has been the impact and what is the difference of this group from what it was as to what you wanted to become. And that just hasn't appeared. To the point that Luis was making, and it's something that I of at halftime. Given the player personnel that you have on the field, if you have Alexander Arnold out there, it's because he's going to give you service. And there was no service coming because all the play was going down the left-hand side. And so it's not just us picking on Vinny. It's not just us picking on Alexander Arnold. It's not just us saying that Gonzalo Garcia wasn't effective. It's looking at the totality of the game and saying, if you have that guy over there and you're not using him, and you have this guy inside the 18-yard box and you're not using him because there is no service, because this guy is not providing service, and all the ball is over there, and you're being ineffective in what you do over there, why is there not a change? And nothing really changed at halftime either. So it's not only what's not happening in the training facility, it's also what's not happening during halftime. You asked me when we went after halftime, what is he saying right now? I don't know that it really matters, because these players did not take that on board when Xavi Alonso was sitting on the bench, and they're not taking it on board now with Arreloa either. And there's evidence of that. Obviously, Luis as well mentioned Ancelotti, Mario. You think towards the end of his tenure, Xavi Alonso and now Alvaro Abuloa, this is clearly a squad of players who aren't doing as they're told? Yeah, because you know what I think is, when you come at this team, you've got to understand how you talk to them because they look exceptional. That's why you go to Real Madrid. You know, the Madrid is, you know, you have a group of stars and you manage to make a team out of them. But the key thing is that you got to maximize it. Like, if you look at the game, the game was not even like you're playing against one of the key figures in the league, whether they're 14th or something in the league. So if you play against them, you also got to remember, you only have a left winger. Okay, Valverde on the right, tucks inside. Then you have a striker that is waiting to do something. When you come on, it's different. And he had moments, you understand, I definitely saw him scoring goals and opening things up. But sometimes when the weight is really on your shoulder, you need a little bit more. And that is the thing that he now has to figure out. What am I going to do now? Is my team now going to play like simple and not being creative and don't use the intelligence of what every individual has? And just put up my system and say, do this and do that. No, Madrid never been like that. The joy of Madrid is seeing flexibility and seeing different things. That's why they buy so many stars. Mario, can I ask you about Rudiger? I'm not suggesting you've ever done this, but does he know what he's doing? The knee. No, no. Look, Rudiger is a fiery guy. The best you get out of Rudiger is, of course, when he's 100% focused and making it hard for you when you play against him. But when he starts doing things like that, you're going a little bit too far. This is not anymore the Rüdiger that I like, that I enjoy watching, because when I want to win, I definitely want to be my team because I know he's a winner. It's an accident? No, this is not an accident. Come on, come on. Come on now, come on. If this is an accident, I've never been a footballer. Luis? What, Luis, what? What do you want me to say? That it's an accident? No, it's not an accident. half of the things that Rudiger does into the box, in his box, in the other opponent's box, in the middle part, half of them, they are on purpose. They're all intentional because he knows what he's doing. Every single time that he's going around and something happened around that he looks like, oh, no, no, no. I mean, sorry, sorry, I didn't want it. 100% of those is because he's done everything on purpose. He's a nasty, nasty player because they are players who arrive, They are, you know, sloppy. They arrive late. They kick you. But you know who are the nasty ones. You know that they do it. They are waiting for the opportunity to. Carvajal is another one. He's a very nice guy. But when he's on the field, when he's blocking you, when he's pushing you, he knows what he's doing. But that's the style of player that they are. But today, that knee is on purpose, 100%. Who tackles the ball with their knee from that sort of position? Nobody. Nobody does. And by the way, that's the one that can't tackle. And if you were going to tackle the ball first you would have had to have gone through the Hetafik player that laying on the ground right Let assume that he going to go and challenge the ball with his knee because apparently that what he thought was the correct decision Then why do you miss the ball entirely? The ball is not even close to the face of the Hetafek player. Yes, yes, yes. It's his fault. It's his fault. Why is your jaw there? It is clearly something that was intentional. He knows exactly what he's doing. And it's surprising that VAR doesn't get involved. But then it comes down to the interpretation of, well, you know, man, he was going for the ball and he was slipping with his right leg. No chance. He knew exactly what he was doing. Bad news all around, really, for Real Madrid. Rubbish performance on the pitch, which, of course, didn't include Kylian Mbappe. Real Madrid released a statement before kickoff addressing his injury. And we've been talking about the fact, oh, it's only a little knock. That's what Arbeloa described it as. It's a strained knee, which has been confirmed. It's something he's been carrying for a while. Suggestions, of course, that it happened back in the Copa del Rey, in that nonsense game that he started chasing that record for the amount of goals in a calendar year. Luis, all round, this seems to be badly handled, and now Real Madrid are very much facing the repercussions of it. Yeah, definitely. I think that everything is definitely, because we don't have all the information from the rest of the world. But it looks like everything started from those moments. When Kylian Mbappé started this season, it started on fire. He was sharp. He looked fast. It was clinical. He's been the top scorer of the league, of Real Madrid, and the leader up front that was helping to get the results. And I think that at some point he didn't realize that that's going to have a bad ending. Because you cannot play 70 games or 60 games a season at the highest level. There is no way that you can do it on these days because you've got international game, Champions League game, La Liga and Copa del Rey. And at some point you have to decide where I'm going to be able to give 100% and when I have to rest. And I think that wasn't handled pretty well. At that stage, you could see that it was Kylian Mbappe not at his best, that he was having some little problems in the knee. And now we realize that it was not just a little thing. It was actually something very serious that now he has to be taking care. Now that is the most important moment of the season. Everybody knows February, March, Champions League is back. The league is getting down to the end of the season. And those are the most important moments. So, yeah, I don't think that they have it very well. Not Kylian Mbappe and his situation. Not the way that they have been using him during the rest of the season. Can I just say that it's not a good look for Real Madrid when Kylian Mbappe decides that he is better off going to check with specialists that he's more comfortable in France. That all along this has been sold as pequeñas molestias, niggly injuries. He'll be fine, just a little rest here and there, and he's going to be good. And so you have a medical team of a club like Real Madrid that you have to imagine have the best minds as it pertains to this sort of injuries available to them in Madrid, in Spain, he takes a good look at whatever they've been doing and he goes, no, this is not good enough for me. I have to go get a second opinion. He paints a picture of a medical team that doesn't know what they're doing. Now, I don't know whether that's accurate or not, but that's the picture it paints. And it also paints a picture that your best player, your most important asset doesn't trust the medical team that you have available. All of that is a negative because as it pertains from here on out, not only just this injury, but any other injury that comes forth for Kylian Mbappe, what do you think he's going to do? Listen to this medical squad or he's going to go to the ones that he trusts? And the ones that he trusts are not in Madrid. Mario, how much of a case of this is Kylian Mbappe dictating whether he plays or not? We go back to the Talavera game, of course, in the Copa del Rey, scores two goals, but in paper this is a game that Real Madrid should win easily against lower league opposition. How much is that him saying, look, I want to, well it's got to be him saying, I want to play, because you can't imagine that at the time it was Xavi Alonso who stopped him and you can't imagine Arvaloa doing that now. Is it a case there isn't a strong enough manager structure in place to be able to tell him no? Yeah, but this is not something that then, this is not something that is only killing in Bappehead, we are all sitting there, you understand? We all are footballers. It's very difficult for a coach to tell us that we cannot play when we want to play. Because if we know that we're part of his starting 11, it's rarely that we say, like, oh, I don't want to play today. The chances are really, really like, yeah, if you bring me to, I'll give an example, we play Oxford out away in December when it's freezing cold. Yeah, I might say to you, like, hey, guys, this is a friendly game. Do I really need to play it? But when this is any game that you play in Spain in the Champions League or for his country. I totally understand him. And what Ali said about injuries, I remember, like even as a pro, and I thought this was already cleaned up. I thought it was cleaned up already then. I did not think this. We were talking about in 2026 that a player would come and ask to go to his country to do a rehab or a double check. I did it when I was playing in England. I did it at every team I was. I said, whenever I get injured, before I sign my deal, I said, I want to make sure that I can go back home to Holland and to make sure I have my own team there and fix me really quickly and quicker than you guys could do it. And they always turned up. And, you know, like normally they will say like, it's three weeks, I will make sure it's two weeks. So I always get the benefit of saying like, guys, you know what they can do and what you can do. But this shouldn't be, this is Real Madrid. It shouldn't be like that because they have the capability to get anybody there because anybody wants to go there. And when you talk about individuals that when they want to play And when they not play, look, of course we have experience. Of course we know when we have to protect ourselves. But when you're just a new player at Madrid, and I don't want to say very new because he's a top player, but still, he still has the feeling of I want to prove a point in the sense of when I can play, I want to score as much I can and prove you, everybody is watching me, I am the guy that you should be watching. So that's why he's always going to play. Does he do it well? No, of course. This brings out that it was a bit too long. I'd just like to speak on behalf of ESPN FC. Our opinions of Oxford aren't shared by the whole company. Let's focus on what has been a great 24 hours for Barcelona. I haven't even kicked a ball yet. They see, of course, Real Madrid dropping points. And now it's all about tomorrow. It's all about the most unlikely of comebacks. They are 4-0 down. Of course, remontada is a word that is being used a lot in the Spanish media after what happened against PSG. Barca 7-1, 4-0 down. But they, of course, have a certain teenager who shone at the weekend his first ever professional hand-trick with Lamin Wiccan, says the front page of Mundo Deportivo. It's a big ask, isn't it? Falls a bit too much, isn't it, Luis? Yes, I think it's a little bit too much. It's not because they cannot do it. It's not because they cannot win the game. I think that, of course, after what we've seen this Barcelona side, we know that they can score goals and many during a game. But those moments of back in the days, Paris Saint-Germain, Sergio Roberto, last minute and going through, I think it's going to be very difficult. First of all, because yes, Barcelona can score goals, but this season is being very vulnerable. They look like every single game they give away a few options to the opponent to score, and Atletico Madrid is not a random team. They know what they are doing. They know how to exploit those spaces, as we saw in the first the first leg when not about this mistake of Joan Garcia but how Atletico Madrid was killing Barcelona from that right side, Juliano Simeone, Nahuel, everybody getting space and time in that option and that's Barcelona all around. It's not against Atletico Madrid that we've seen it but we saw against Sevilla, we saw against Elche, we saw against Girona when the opposition they got so many options to score goals. So, yeah, they can score goals, but also they can concede, and that's the most worried part when you want to go through. This could be like 7-4, Canelo, tomorrow. It's just going to be silly. Well, yeah, see, the people that are making the argument for La Remontada, the comeback for Barcelona, are forgetting one very basic thing. This Barcelona team did lose for nothing to Atletico Madrid. They did give up four goals, and it could have been more. While I have no doubt that Barcelona has an opportunity to win the match, what I also have no doubt is that they will leave all sorts of spaces for Atletico Madrid as they desperately push forward to somehow make this happen. And yes, to your point, Dan, 5-3 seems very likely. And actually, I would be surprised if it wasn't like that. I would be surprised if it was just, you know, kind of no drama, 2-0 Barcelona wins in Atlético Madrid advance. I don't think that's the sort of game that we're going to see. Yes, 5-3, 7-4, whatever you want to call it, it's going to get out of control. Mario Sanaviku's football being a bit boring these days. Tomorrow will be anything but that, won't it? Oh, yeah, man, but this is what you like to watch, right? Because, you know, even with these guys, you know, look, guys, if I had the opportunity to sit with all four of you and watch this game, I'll be more than happy, guys. You know why? I'm off, Mario. I'm busy. Because this is football. This is football. This is football. Even if you see Spain, I'll say, hey, brother, come over, man. Let's watch some football. Because this is the game, guys. If you don't look. And what I always ask myself, why everybody, when they turn up at Barcelona, it looks like everybody's a little bit tired. Because they are too much in the, you know, when they look around the stadium, the beauty and everything. I hope that doesn't happen to Atletico. Because sometimes I see, and they had it too. But I hope it doesn't happen in this game. I want to see a real football game where two teams go at it, regardless if Barcelona is at home. Yeah, what about Atletico Madrid's approach? Very interesting press conference. Very interesting, brave, stupid question from a Barcelona media member. Here it is. First leg victory right after that score. There was a lot of talk about the situation, about whether any team could fail to advance the final or lose this advantage. It would be Atletico Madrid. How does the coach of a team that has managed to win four goals to nil process that? What's the question? You can rephrase it because it was a bit confusing. Okay, there were a lot of comments surrounding the... From whom? The general atmosphere in the media, in discussions. I don't comment on what others say. Yes! Luis, he's your mate! I totally understand. I mean, if you are looking to go through a final and you won 4-0 and you hear a question about, is your team going to lose the game big time? So you are that bad that you're going to miss this chance? Yeah, I think it's not the right question. I think that this moment is more about how are you going to try to stop Barcelona, not how are you going to try to defend yourself or not conceding for goals. So I don't know. This kind of question is the ones that I don't understand. So I think Desimone was right. I totally didn't agree with him. But if you're the journalist, own it. You ask the question. Don't say, well, people are talking about it. People have been saying, who are these people? Own it. You say, hey. I would have said Luis Garcia. Yeah. That's what he said. I heard Luis Garcia. Luis Garcia said that you guys are going to give all of this up. And La Remontada has happened. Mario agreed. Mario Malkia as well. Absolutely. Own it. Oh, I'm watching. I'm the witness. I'm the witness. Does anyone think it's going to happen? Mario, do you think we're going to see it? With Barcelona get through? It's a tough one, guys. You know? Own it! Own it! Own it! Own it! Okay, I don't think this is going to happen. Okay, well, you can see it all play out. That's what people are saying. It's brilliant. It's why we love this game tomorrow. It should be fantastic. Barcelona against Atleti, live on ESPN+. coverage starts at 2.30 Eastern. Then we're back on Wednesday. Real social out against Athletic Club. Real would, of course, with a 1-0 lead going into that tie. From the excitement of Barcelona against Atleti to Arsenal, Chelsea. Anyway, what should we talk about? Let talk about Pedro Neto shall we Because apparently he didn know that he was already on a yellow card He of course got sent off in the second half Chelsea down to 10 men once again Boys, you've all played. Mario, obviously you've played at this level. Is it feasible that he didn't know he was already on a yellow? Come on, guys. Look, when you play football, there is one thing on your head, on your mind, I mean. And it doesn't matter who you play against, you know when you got booked. because you always put in your mind, like maybe a defender has more than an attacker, but you know that, hey, listen, I got to be careful now because then the next one could be I'm going home. So for him now to say that he didn't know the hat, and also the other part is how many reds did Chelsea already had this season? And he knows, he's part of that team. So being part of a team that's got booked, what is it, nine or whatever number you want to call it, and then you say, I didn't know. No, that's not possible. He knew that he had the yellow card and he knew, like, the tackle that he was, it was a tackle. I call this a tackle that I don't want to do that run with you. That's the tackle I call it. That's exactly what Frank described it as yesterday, lazy. He says it's a lazy attacking challenge and he gets booked as a result. Why are your team so naughty? Why does everyone keep getting sent off, Mario? Because sometimes, you know, like, normally you have one guy in the team, the other side, like a Rudiger, that puts his foot down and everybody's like, OK. but now everybody's joining in and that's not a good thing and I talked about it yesterday actually and I said that too and I said the key thing now is you want everybody to be fiery but you also have to have people that can control themselves and at the moment now it looks like everybody wants to prove a point and I have to be careful because it's going to cost them a lot and you can see now you understand Neto is a very important team player and you don't want to miss him because The speed, the breaks, the dribbles that he makes and everything. Just anybody. Come on, guys. You don't have time for this, especially when you play against Arsenal. They're good at knowing to get you a foul. Can I ask you a question? You can ask me whatever you want. I don't want to. You can ask me whatever you want, Ali. I don't want to take your role. This is just one single question, Dan. Sorry. What do you think is dumber? To not know that you're on a yellow car or make the argument that you didn't know you're on a yellow car or to make that challenge when you're already on a yellow car? I don't... That's a very good question, Ali. Well, that... You tell me. It's going to make that challenge, surely. Well, yes, but to make the argument that you don't know you're on a yellow card and to think that people are going to believe that, I think that breaks through the threshold of dumb. That takes it to a different entirely level. It's a great defense. I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know it was... Don't give me a second yellow for that. No, I'm sorry. That's all we're going to talk about, Arsenal-Chelsea. You talked about it a lot yesterday. I'm sorry. What about the set pieces? You don't want to talk about that? I'm going to have 10 pieces. Arsenal are going to win the league. It's all fine. It's all all right. Should we laugh at Spurs instead? Sure, why not? Let's take a look at where they are. Obviously, very much in a relegation scrap, in big trouble. They're just lucky that Nottingham Forest and West Ham are in this league as well. Four points of difference, obviously. Igor Tudor coming in. This is what he had to say about his team's performance so far. I said to the players, It's always what you're going to do, what you want to do with yourself. More personality, more wish to do before reacting. Plenty of things, a lot of things. We are lucky when we attack, we are lucky of the quality to score the goal, we are lucky in the middle to run and we are left behind to stay there and suffer and not consider the goal. So amazing situation, amazing. I tell you, with that inspiration I really think Spurs are going to battle on now and win every game. Mario, why are you doing that publicly? This is my question too, because I think you just two games as a manager at a club, at a club that needs a big push and a big change and what are the key thing in this club, what they're missing is players with confidence and then you're gonna come out and say that? No, that means that you're almost at the end already. He's almost talking like he's at the end. Yeah. They, what is it, 10 games on the track, they keep on losing? No, this is not a great tactic for him and that's why I don't understand it. Look, he might have his start process and I think he has that prior, then when he took the job, so I'm sure that he's aware of what he thinks and what he wants to do, but now you are in this position, coach. You need to bring confidence to the players and feel there, make them feel unprotected by whatever comes out is just to protect us. And what is inside, you can do whatever you want. So he has the right to say whatever he wants in the team, but don't do it publicly because protect those guys. There are two things already that have gone on with Igor Tudor that already concern me. And it seems too soon, but I'm already concerned. the reports of him having the team running the beep test endlessly last week in preparation for the match on the weekend that in itself is what in the world yeah are you doing and what do you think you're gonna get out of that and two you come in as a manager and while yeah you may point the finger at the players internally the one thing that you need to do is to gain the trust of those players. Whatever you may think of those guys, however limited you think the talent level is, or however limited you think the personnel that you have available is, those are your guys right now, and they have to be at their very best for you. And in order for them to do that, you have to gain their trust. They have to be able to trust that what you say has value and has weight and has validity. When the first thing that you do is to grab those players and throw them squarely under the boss, the disconnection has already started. The fracture has already started. They didn't like you much when you had them running beat tests because they're probably asking the same question as I am. How is this going to help us over the weekend? And then you follow that up with, don't look at me, it's this guy's. No character, no personality, no this, no that, and no... How are the players supposed to trust this guy now? Difficult to figure out. Mario, your reaction to the report Jules put up yesterday, of course, them doing beep tests ahead of this game. Yeah, look, I did beep tests, but I never did beep tests with a max because we would do it till seven. And seven is just to get you a sweat and have a test then and seeing like, they will check your heart rate, they will check your blood, just to have an understanding of what's going on in your body and seeing what level of fitness are you. Are you too fit or are you too fatigued or whatever, you need recovery or whatever. But when he's going to do it to the max, you're in the Premier League, guys. When it comes to the max, you can literally train and figure out like, okay, those guys are not fit enough. We got to work on them. But you're not going to bring down your whole team. You're new. You also as a coach have to understand how this league works. and then you're going to do all these things? Nah, look, I think, look, he has experience, but don't overplay the books because you have to understand this game, when it comes to the battle in England, is based on a lot of confidence. And if you take that away from the players, you have a team without a shell. You know, it's like it's empty. So you've got to figure this out really quickly because if not, four points away from the drop and a club that's never been in the drop, oh my God, this is going to be, Who can handle this? That's the question he should ask himself. Who in my team can handle this that I brought to the club? Because he has a lot of new players there that they spend a lot of money on. And I don't know if those individuals are ready to battle it out at the bottom. So a huge surprise, obviously. Spurs battling relegation. Huge surprise. Manchester United are sitting third in the table. Interesting stuff, I suppose, from Ruben Amarin's assistant saying, In Manchester, I like the city a lot and the way that fans live in free football. More focus on the project than on immediate results. What I like less was undoubtedly feeling that ideas were not being fully implemented. OK. I suppose, what's he going to say, Mario? They wanted more time? Like, you had time? Like, they can't say, yeah, we mucked it up. No, I can't say you want more time. I understand, Ali. You know what they wanted to do, Ali? They wanted to go and have some dinner and talk about it and really with the owners and say, like, don't worry, next season we're going to be better. No, guys, it doesn't go like that. You got to figure it out now. You got to do it now. And don't be stubborn. Like, whatever club you go to now, if it doesn't work out straight away, okay, the size of Man United, you maybe not, you understand, it's not going to be quickly available for you. Or, you know, a Man United, a Real Madrid, a Barcelona, you know, like those kind of teams or another team in England, it's crucial. But if you get players that are not performing, and then you get a Cesco making that kind of goal for you, Oh my God, guys, that means like now as a guy, it's a different person. And then Fernandes is playing football the way he wants to play football. He's not playing football that I got to be on the side and I got to track back and be in the middle. No, if you see the second half that Man United played yesterday, it was incredible. That kid was like, he was playing football like he was in the park. And that is what he's good at. But Emery could not get that out of him. This is a really good example as to how powerful of a brand Manchester United really is, even when they have had their struggles. That we are here talking about a quote from, not from Ruben Amorim, but his assistant coach, Adelio Candido. That somehow he makes this show because he's saying, I like the city. It's all right. You can go out to eat. It's fine. We would have liked some more time. How about, look, I suppose you want to defend yourself and Rubén Amorín. Of course. That's obvious. But here's the problem, and it's really damning evidence for the both of them. Adelio Candido and Rubén Amorín. This same group of players with a different manager is winning games while you guys were not. So, no, you did not deserve more time. A lot more. Hernández. I bet he went to Hernández, Mario. Mario loves Hernández. Oh, I'm John. I'm going to see one again. Don't worry about it, Dan. You need to get some sponsorship. A lot more on what happened this weekend. Manchester United, of course, being Crystal Palace on the latest edition of the Gavin Jules Show. Extra time available over on our YouTube channel. Controversial king of the pitch this week, let me just say. Yes, indeed. So just a reminder, Real Madrid nil, Getafe 1 is how it finished in our feature game at the Santiago Bernabeu. Alex Kirkland was there for us. He joins us now. Alex, you've just been at the press conference. I imagine the vibe was, what's the word, rather low? Yeah, sorry to keep you waiting, Dan. The vibe from Jose Bordelaz of Getafe was pretty ecstatic. He was enjoying every minute of their first win here in 18 years, as you'd expect. Alvaro Alba Loa, a bit defensive, I would say, insisting that his team had created more chances than Hetafé. He said, I cannot criticise the effort of my players. But of course, he admitted, yes, they could have played better. He was asked, is the title race over? He said, no, that would be premature. It's four points. He said there are 36 points left to play for, I think, which I think the maths is right. And he said, we will fight for every single one of those points. So like I say, a little bit offensive. The one thing he did accept was that he said, I don't know what Mas Tantuono said to pick up the red card, but he said he must have said something and that can't happen. And also the fact the likes of Dean Hausen gets the yellow and is suspended as well, I think, for the next game coming up. That's not ideal as well. So, Mitty, one or two things, but overall, like I say, a little bit defensive and saying, no, look, we played OK, we played better, we had chances, we just didn't take them. How are the fans? I mean, it's quite out here now, but that's because some of the fans were getting out of their seats and heading for the exit before the final whistle. And so now quite a bit afterwards, it's quiet outside the Bernabeu. And the fans, they were not happy. They were not happy at all with the performance, with the results. There were whistles. There were some chants aimed at, one or two chants I heard aimed at the president, not widespread, but one or two of those. And there were whistles during the game as well For example when the youngster Tiago Pitarch was substituted there were definitely clear whistles there for Arbeloa the coach and for that decision Arbeloa said I get that I understand that Thiago played really well. It wasn't about his performance. That wasn't why I took him off. It was tactical. And meanwhile, it's Santa Vigo now on Friday, Alex. A game in which they should have been playing to go above Barcelona. Yeah, not an easy place to go, Baloguida. Celta having a pretty good season. And Celta playing good football, playing a more kind of cohesive, coherent, entertaining football than Real Madrid right now. That's going to be a tough game. Look at the absentees. You know, no Kylian Mbappé, no Jude Bellingham. Like I say, the likes of Mastantuono tonight picking up a suspension and question marks at the back and in midfield. And today, Arbeloa, he couldn't find the solution. He sort of threw players on. You end up with Rodrigo on there, Mastantuono on there with Vinicius and Gonzalo Garcia. None of it worked. right now, look, if Madrid play anything like they played tonight against Celta, they're not getting a win at Balleros. The improvement will have to be substantial I think. Alex, as always thank you very much, much appreciated. Just a reminder of course, plenty of action to come, not only in the Copa del Rey, but La Liga as well you've got Rave Akanem taking on Oviedo and then a full programme this weekend including Barcelona and the new San Mames away against Athletic Club Real Madrid, of course in action on Friday, as we mentioned, against All those games, as always, live on ESPN+. That is it. That brings us to the end of today's show. Be sure to stay tuned. Mario back, Ali as well, to answer some of your questions. A mix of Real Madrid and Chelsea seem to be the theme. Stay tuned. Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Thank you very much for all your questions. Ali is here. Mario joins us as well. How have you been, Mario? All good? all good? Yes, I'm very good, thank you. I'm good, I'm good. Good man. Right, did you guys enjoy the Getafe time-wasting masterclass? How frustrating is it to play in a game against a team who have mastered the dark arts? Mario? It's tough, but it happens. I mean, look, we also have to, you know, give them credit because when you're not the team that has the capabilities as a side like Real Madrid, you're going to open all the tricks you get. And one of the tricks is the one I hate the most when I play against teams like that. But still, you know, they're out there. They're going to wait, kick the ball away, get fouls, go down. You know, the goalkeeper can catch the ball normally. No, he goes down and he rolls on the floor. Oh, man, all that stuff. Hey, that's part of the game, guys. I'm sorry, I didn't make it up, but I don't like it. But it's just part of the game and I understand it when it happens. I didn't think they were that dark, aren't they? No, but it's within the personality of Bordalaz's team to have this edge or this preconception about them. That they're going to do something within the boundaries of the game that you kind of go, well, that's nothing. That's borderline. One of the things, and I don't know whether Mario is going to enjoy this or not, but one of the things that, as a player, when we were under pressure, I knew full well that what the time was and what my job was at that point. How do we close this out? We know we're under pressure. We know we're a lesser team. What do I need to do? How do I make myself useful? And the oldie but a goodie that I don't know that people do nearly as well as they once did. When you are brought down and it's a foul, You got to give it the old roll to grab enough attention from the referee to now consider the possibility of bringing the medical staff in. But right before he's about to bring him in, then you get yourself to one knee and give the thought that... What masterclass is this? You give the thought that maybe you're okay to continue. Yes. Then you get yourself up to talk to the referee. Now we're walking away. And now this is not time added. You see that we continue the time without anybody coming in. And referees usually will not add those extra 30 seconds. So what I would suggest is that people are not willing to go through this process to actually finish the game in the way that you wanted to finish. And Hetafit, to the point of the question, did a very good job of doing that today. Mario, how hard would you have wanted to kick Ali? Oh, my God. I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, I swear on my life. I'm thinking of that. I'm saying, Ali, we were in the same game. Ali, oh, my God, my friend. Listen, I will give you a hug before the game. I will give you a hug after the game. But during the game, I will kick you so hard. And you will remember every part of my stunt. Wow. But what about if I were your teammate and I was doing that for us, Mario? That's different. If someone kicks you, then I come for you, my friend, because you cannot touch Ali. That's how it works. That's how it works. Real Madrid losing, of course, against Getafe today in La Liga. The last time they lost against Getafe at Bernabeu, I was there. I was working for Real Madrid TV. There you go. That was a long time ago. Are you the common denominator? I don't know about that. Arbeloa, will he last the season? Now I think if you have made this change and you've made the decision that you made you're going to ride or die with this guy till the end of the season the bigger question is is he going to be around next season and that's very much result dependent and right now the answer to that question is more likely to be no than yes. I think very yes very more than likely. Exceptionally more than likely. Is it time for Forentino Perez to step down? Madrid's recent downfall is mostly because of his failures to sign adequate replacements for the older players who left recently. Cruz and Modric, they're the big... Yeah, and so you're going to hang on to that. But the signings at the time were not thought to be failures. See, when Real Madrid went after Chua Meni, when they went after Camavinga, and you already had Valverde in place, you're thinking, potentially these players are going to become the substitute to guys like Modric and Kroos. And at that point, Real Madrid didn't look like a team that was just freely spending without a thought process. In fact, the conversation would have been, hey, they're getting ahead of the curve and they're banking on guys like Chiumeni and Camavinga to develop. That just hasn't happened. So I don't know that you can put that on Florentino Perez. At some point, you also have to look at what these players were supposed to be and they haven't become what they were expected to become. Ali, what's the best South American national team you played against during your time with Venezuela? Oh, Brazil. Who did they have, Ali? Oh, man. Let me just say, I had a very comfortable seat on the bench for this one, so I was able to evaluate and analyse everything that was going on. What was your analysis of the Brazil side? We're about to get our backsides handed to us. Just give us some players who are there. It's Ronaldinho. It's Ronaldo. It's Cafu on the right-hand side, Roberto Carlos on the other side. And you're going, oh, mommy. We started the game off well. And we were knocking the ball around. And we were at Brazil. You know you're in trouble when you're knocking the ball around. And the Brazilian fans who have packed the stadium, they're still going, Eh, eh, eh. They were not concerned about us at all. And sure enough, when they decided to pick up the pace and turn to a different sort of gear, a different type of level, it was bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, goal. And you're like, oh, but I thought we were doing it. Ali, warm up. Oh, no. Well, that's also the difference. It's like, all right, who do we have on the bench? Oh, no. Mr. Get up from injury, take 10 minutes. That doesn't help us now. Who do they have on the bench? Oh, it's Adriano. All right, hey, it's a Robinho. Yeah, all right, okay. Yeah, no. It's a big one. And the Argentina team, when Maradona took over as the coach, at one point on the field, you had, in the back line, you had Zanetti, who was an older player. But as you sort of look into the rest of the team, Verón was playing, and he was heavily booted by the Argentinian fans, which I didn't quite understand. But then it was Messi, it was Agüero. And you're thinking, and these are, you know, young Messi, young Agüero. And the conversations are like, are they going to be able to play together? And then the sort of controversial decision is, is Higuain really going to play? And at this point, Higuain was scoring a bunch of goals for Napoli. And you're thinking, we don't have those kind of problems in Venezuela. Right. So, yeah, different level. Mario? Yeah? No, I love it. I love what Ali explains because I had it when I played against France. I come on the field, do you understand? I look, I come on the field, I look around me and I go like, okay, Tressinger? Okay, yes, difficult, very, very difficult. Then I see a Cheri Henry coming. Okay, I said them two? And I was playing center half at that time. Oh, I had to chase him down like crazy. So yes, I understand the feeling. When you sometimes play against top, top, top, top individuals, it's great because now you can match yourself to where you are as an individual, and that's what you want as a player, but it also tells you like, okay, it's not only your country's got good players, now they're proving that France got great players. So that's what I came across in my national team period. I don't think I was ever intimidated by teams or players, but when original Ronaldo and Phenomeno was walking to get on the field, you know, as we're about to start the match, you don't realize how big he was and how thick. Yeah. And he was built like a brick house, but could move and fly with the ball in his feet. And you're seeing it first and you go, yeah, guys, we don't have that. Yeah. We don't have that. We have me. Down on the floor. We have me. And I'm not that. I am so agree with you, Ali. If there is one man that brought me to a stadium, no, two guys brought me to a stadium. It was freezing cold. I was 16 and I had only a pass. And I actually go freely to watch the first team play. I was in the youth team as an Ajax player. It was Romario. And I don't know if people are familiar with him because he was incredibly good. And then the next thing, Romario leaves and Ronaldo comes. I'm going to the stadium again on my own. Nobody around me, 16 years old. and I'm watching Ajax PSV and them two were playing. Oh, my God. They were like... I was thinking at one point, Dan, I'm telling you, I wanted to be a pro. I was thinking, do I need all this stuff to be able to compete with this kind of guys? I don't know what's going to happen in my career to make it. Oh, honestly, they were good. And you made it, Mario. Now you're with us. What a treat. Yeah. I'm happy. I'm happy. Mario, what position, finally, do you think Chelsea need to improve become a contender? To be a contender, I think, look, when I watch the game against Arsenal, I know they have a lot of wingers and they have a lot of young wingers, but one thing, they need balance to make sure that they can be dangerous all the time and the setup needs to be well for them to be. I think as a team, I don't want to say they need to have more players, but they have to be dangerous and don't stop. The first half, 20 years before they got to the goal of Arsenal, they pulled back and tried to control the tempo of the game. And I'm like, finish the action off. Second half, they start doing it. OK, Arteta reacted really quickly and changed really quickly. So for me, you understand, for me, I have to make sure that the coach has to understand that this team has to be dangerous all the time. You have to have wingers on the side that are capable of beating a player and scoring a goal because beating they can, but scoring, I see too less of it. I want more goals. Donnarumma's bold spot. That's me, isn't it? That is it. That brings us to the end. That's unnecessary. That's unnecessary. That is it. Thank you very much, Mario. Cheers, Ali. We'll be back tomorrow. Of course, I'll focus very much on Barcelona against Atleti in the Copa del Rey.