Richard Sherman Podcast - Seahawks-Patriots Reaction: Darnold Silences Critics, Seattle Defense Wins Super Bowl LX | Sherman

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Welcome back to the Richard Sherman podcast. And I just want to say I appreciate you guys. You can be getting your NFL content from anywhere, but you're here with me. I'm thankful for you. So hit that sub button so you can get the notifications when I'm dropping a new episode. All love. Hope you guys are having a great New Year's. Appreciate all your New Year's resolutions and staying healthy. Welcome back to the Richard Sherman podcast. And guess what, Mitchell? The season is over and the Seattle Seahawks have won the Super Bowl. Who could have predicted it? Who could have saw that coming? This guy, this guy, this guy thought, this guy thought of that chance. An incredible game, an incredible game, played by Mike McDonald from start to finish. I got so much to talk about, so many details. I sat there after the game, got to talk to some of the coaches, some of the players, got some insight, no names associated with these quotes and information. But wow, did they take their time dissecting these New England Patriots, Mitchell, from the hand signals to the, to when he lifted his foot, to offensive line stances. And these are all things that all teams study and all teams try to understand. But the way in which the Seattle Seahawks understood the New England Patriots was, I mean, they understood them like they've known them their entire lives. I'm guessing they understood what they had for breakfast that morning, the probiotics they take, Mitchell, I'm talking about how much apple juice they had that week. I'm talking about to the screws. And that's why you cannot give Mike McDonald this kind of time. He's obsessive compulsive. He is obsessed. And when they, when they talked about how he prepared and the things he's studying, like, I don't think fans truly are understanding the time he's putting in to understand, to put his guys in position, to understand the other coordinator as if it's his brother and understand what he's going to do in these situations so he can put his guys in the exact perfect position to be successful, not putting pressure on his players to perform and understand and recognize, although you got really smart and talented players who can do that, who are out there doing that and doing their jobs at a high level. But Mike McDonald is putting it on himself to call the perfect play. You got to give Devon Witherspoon a ton of credit. I mean, the story all week was, can Nick M and Warrie play? How bad is the ankle? Is he going to be 100%? He's so important to this defense. It did not matter. That's all. Nick M and Warrie was fine, but the way they attacked will gamble throughout this game. The way they attacked the B gap in this game with Devon Witherspoon with games. And then you got to take it a step further and look at the history between Derek Hall and Will Campbell because I had a conversation with him and he was like, I knew this guy from college. I had no misgivings, misunderstandings about who I was dealing with and I had a great plan and he did. He had a great plan. He ended up with two sacks in the game. Byron Murphy. Incredible story. Goes from first rounder and they're talking about he's not getting the stats. He's a bust. He's a bust. This is a message to all the fans out there. Don't be quick to judgment, especially with certain positions because sometimes it takes a second to get it. Sometimes you need a little more veteran presence, a few more reps. Figure out your move. Now he's one of the most stout defensive linemen in the national football league. Two sacks in the Super Bowl and plays an enormous part in his great run-stopping defense, allowing those two safeties to play deep and then to still stop the run. There were so many guys that played really well in this game. Yuchina Nwosu got the interception off the Witherspoon, what looked like a force fumble, they called it an interception, didn't matter either way because he called it and scored it, but they were in control the entire game and Julian Love said from the opening drive they knew how this game was going to go. Mitchell, so did I. So did I. And a great defense. You know, Mitchell, you know, as soon as you punch, bam, you're like, oh, these guys, these guys are soft. They're not built for this. And I think the Seattle Seahawks came in with such an aggressive mentality defensively. They were a buzz saw. And I said this a couple of weeks ago, when a buzz saw is going, Mitchell, it doesn't matter what's in the way. It's getting shredded and it's getting shredded. The buzz saw is going. It does not matter what's in the way. And the New England Patriots just happened to be in the way. It was nothing personal with them for from the MOB and them have a rivalry with the with the Patriots. I'm sure, you know, getting your lick back is great and we wanted our revenge and those guys got our revenge. But they didn't care if it was the New England Patriots, the 85 Bears, the dolphins that were undefeated. The New England Patriots with Tom Brady's coming back in his prime. Mitchell, this defense did not care. And Mike McDonald said it after the NFC championship game. We do not care. We do not care about what y'all saying, what y'all doing. And that's the scariest part about this team. They're not going anywhere. They're going to be great for a long time. And they're sitting there. They're so locked in there like, man, I wish we had another game. You just won a Super Bowl and you talking about, I wish I had another game. That's. Psychotic. Richard, it's wild. And just from my perspective, this is one of the more dominant performances in a Super Bowl. It kind of was similar to your guys beating up the Denver Broncos years ago. Richard, this defense is high flying. They're prolific. Obviously top of their game. Any debate that there might have been that this team wasn't the best team in the league, they shut that down during the Super Bowl. This team definitely is the best team in the league. I don't think there's any questions about it. The New England Patriots to me looked like they were shocked at how good the Seattle Seahawks were, especially defensively on the offensive side of the ball. My boy canine Richard. Well, I'd like to humbly admit I called a couple of weeks ago and when the MVP of this game, sure enough, Richard, he was a heavy dose of canine early and often was all the Seattle Seahawks offense really needed to get going. And we saw it consistently throughout this game. Richard, how impressed with you? I know you were very impressed with the defensive effort out there, but what did you think of the, you know, the game plan from an offensive standpoint in this game? Well, I thought it was incredible. I knew they would need to lean on the run game to have success against New England Patriots. I thought that'd be a tough task, but the best players play their best when their best is required. And canine played his best football the last probably five, six weeks of the season after Zach Charbonne goes out with an injury. He steps up in a big way, gets a heavier workload and just locks in. And this game was his swan song was his creme de la creme. He got it done at a high level. You could see him manipulating the, the, the, the defensive linemen, setting up his blocks in a really cool way, accelerating around the edge, just having a great feel for this scheme and what's expected of him. And I, I, the new, the New England Patriots had no answer for them. They had no answer. I don't think they had missed that many tackles in any game this season. I don't think they had given up that many yards after contact in any game this season. Canine played at a different level that they were unprepared for and unprepared to respond to. And then I know everybody's like, Oh, Sam Darnold didn't do anything crazy. You lose Jackson Smith and jigba in this game to, to what I believe was a concussion and shout out to the Seattle Seahawks training staff, strict and those guys for doing the, the things necessary to protect him even in the biggest games. Because sometimes you run into situations, Mitchell where, where a player, your best player, especially an offensive player of the year type player is maybe has concussion symptoms. And it might be a conversation where you look at each other and you say, Hey, you sure? You sure you want to walk away right now? But they didn't do that. They took him in the locker room, got him checked out, did what was best for him and his future in the team, still able to win. That's an organization doing things right. And I appreciate that. Sam Darnold did a great job. I thought he did a phenomenal job trying to push the ball down the field. I love the, the throw to Rashid Shahid. I saw it happen in the live and I knew soon as they got the isolation on Christian Gonzalez, I was like, Hey, ball needs to go up. It's a foot race with the fastest guy on the field. But shout out to Christian Gonzalez. One of the most unbelievable performances in a Super Bowl for a defensive back that I've ever seen. He got three targets and three forced in completions on three different players. One was on JSN. JSN gave him a post move, doubled him up. As a corner, great corner. He showed so much patience and all. He showed a litany of strength when he was defending these guys. That's what was beautiful about it. He played three different guys, three different ways and had success against all of them. He pressed Cooper cup on what looked like a little basic route. PBU. He played off versus JSN, who's a phenomenal route runner offensive player of the year. He doubled him up. He didn't fall for it, stayed in his hip pocket, drove the ball, probably should have intercepted it. Then you go to the Shahid play where he made a split second decision that was, that could have been a difference in that game between them winning and losing the Super Bowl, that plate potentially being a touchdown at full speed. At full speed, he made a decision to go up. And at that point you have no more jurisdiction over anything. Mitchell, you're guessing. This is all guesswork because the trajectory of the ball is already coming down. And what you've decided is this is what I have to do in this situation to make this play. And if he misses it, it's over because you can't recover balls in his hand. He skates off. It's a touchdown. It ended up being an incredible play for him. And I always like to tip my hat off to performances like that. His team may have lost, but if they would have won, he would have had a great case to be the MVP for that team because of how he played and the stops he made. I think he saved two potential touchdowns in that game and allowed the New England Patriots to stay in that game for a good majority of it. I mean, they held him to nine points at halftime. That squirt could have easily ballooned early on in that game. But let's go back to Sam Darno and just doing what's necessary. They didn't, he didn't get impatient. He didn't do anything that you expect. You know, I think everybody expects him to turn back into a pumpkin. That's been the rhetoric. Hey, he's going to see ghosts. Eventually he's going to turn back into the old Sam Darno. No, he's not. No, he's not. Sometimes you have that, that light bulb movement. Sometimes you have that epiphany where you figure things out. Sometimes it happens immediately. Sometimes for some guys it happens a little later on and it seemed like it happened for Sam Darno when he got to Minnesota. And then he had a little hiccup in the playoffs. You know, he got some pressure. He was sacked nine times by the Rams, didn't play well to the point where the Minnesota Vikings started to be a good idea to move off of him after a 14 win season and go with JJ McCarthy. Again, a move that I think sets their franchise back 10 years. But Minnesota fans wanted to argue with me all season long about how I was wrong and they were right. But it seems like the ownership group thinks I was right too. Seems like Kevin O'Connell thinks I was right too. It seems like a lot of people thought I was right that actually no football and not the fans that are just trying to make themselves feel better about a quarterback that just isn't the guy. You know, maybe they can get Mack Jones, maybe they can get somebody else to go into that spot to sustain them until they can get another franchise quarterback. Maybe Mack Jones is the answer. But that's the story for a different day. I think Sam Darnold has elevated himself. He's changed the narrative about himself. It's a beautiful conversation. The first quarterback in a 2018 class to get a Super Bowl and a class that, that has three MVP trophies to two different guys already to their names. They haven't made it past it. The championship games, the AFC championship, either one of them, both of them have had chances. Lamar Jackson had a chance with Mike McDonald as his defensive coordinator. So I think Baltimore was the number one defense that year, wrecking shot. They had a great game against Brock Purdy that season. I want to say he was in the MVP race and I was, you know, jump standing on the fence for him. He throws five interceptions, I believe, against, against the Mike McDonald, coach Baltimore Ravens defense in Levi Stadium, in Santa Clara. And then of course they get to the playoffs and things don't work out that way. They don't run the ball like the Seattle Seahawks do in this Super Bowl and they find a way to lose. You cannot take anything away from Sam Darno and what he's done this playoff run to help this team get here. You've gone through division rivals, arguably the second best team in the National Football League in the Rams and some all season long were calling them the best team in the National Football League. So you can't make the argument that he's gone through some easy schedule, some cake schedule. He didn't have to perform. He had to throw for 300 yards against the Rams, a defense that he struggled with, both with the Minnesota Vikings and with the Seattle Seahawks. But when it mattered the most, he played at a high enough level to get his team to the Super Bowl and win that game. This team isn't going anywhere and I can't wait to see how they continue to evolve. They're going to get guys healthier. They're going to get more weapons on offense. I don't think they're going to let K-9 out of that building. Obviously he's a free agent. They're going to do what they need to do to keep him. The franchise tag for running back isn't restrictive. And I think that's something that a weapon that they'll use if they can't figure out the negotiations. Richard, this Sam Darnold story is a wild one who was once viewed as a bust, right? A top three pick by the Jets. Now looks like he warranted that top three selection. And like you said, for him to be the first quarterback out of that draft class, the Hoist, the Lombardi Trophy is unbelievable. The Seahawks are the first Super Bowl champion to go their entire post season without committing a turnover for a quarterback. And Sam Darnold, who was top three in the league and picks coming into this, like how important was that to his maturation, to his development? Richard, I mean, this guy, like you said, last year, he's playing one of the toughest divisions in the NFC North. This year is playing in arguably, probably easily the hardest division in the NFC West. And to do that and have that experience with top tier competition, to go into the playoffs and not commit one turnover. How, how wild is that in your eyes? I can't even describe how incredible that is. That's that to be the first team in the history of the national football league, to not turn a, turn a ball over at all during the entire playoffs. It's hard to, to really, to really express how difficult that is because there's so many things that are out of your control. So many times the quarterback's arm gets hit and the ball gets tipped up in the air and, and you know, who knows what can happen and, and, you know, things that just can happen that change that stat immediately, even for really good teams. And so for him to, to have 20 turnovers this season and then to have zero in the playoffs, that's what, what they needed. That's what they had to have to be Super Bowl champions. And that's what he delivered. Again, this narrative about the elite quarterbacks and the top quarterbacks in the top five and who's this? It's Patrick Mahomes and everybody who's not Patrick Mahomes, honestly. And I don't, I don't care about arm talent. I don't care about, about how athletic these guys are. I care about winning in Super Bowls and the only guys who have Super Bowls are our Jalen Hertz, Patrick Mahomes. Now Sam Darnold, Aaron Rodgers, if he keeps playing, you know what I mean? There's only so many quarterbacks that are still playing today. That have Super Bowls under their belt in the last couple of years. It's, it's Patrick Mahomes, Jalen Hertz and Sam Darnold. It's not Josh Allen who had every, every opportunity this year to, to be in that conversation, every opportunity to take his team to the big game and not to say that it was on him necessarily, but he didn't play his best game. And when, when you're held to that standard and to that level, you have to play your best in those games to help your team get to a championship to be considered one of those guys. And we keep putting these guys in these conversations they don't deserve to be in because they're playing in their, their resume doesn't have trophies on it. Their shelf doesn't have trophies on it. So why are we giving them this credit that they have trophies because they're, they're overly talented. They have great regular seasons. Lamar has had phenomenal regular season, could have easily had three MVPs, doesn't have a trophy. Josh Allen has had phenomenal seasons, could have had an MVP the year before. He actually won it, I think, but he won one, doesn't have trophies. Josh, Joe Burrell, Joe Burrell, one of the most talented armed talents in the national football league took the bangles, you know, from a security to a Super Bowl against the Rams and wasn't Aaron Donalds sack away from, from potentially winning that game. But again, at the end of the day, doesn't have a trophy. So when we have these conversations at some point, the trophy has to matter. Success has to matter. Being able to play your best when your best is required has to matter. And I think that's the conversations we're going to start to have. I'm tired of hearing about how talented Herbert and, and, and, and Trevor Lawrence and, and all these in Josh Allen and Lamar and how, how great they are because they are great. But maybe if we're doing an analysis of the big picture, the bigger picture, we need to take the full scope to rank these guys. Like at the end of the day, if we're not taking the full scope, then what are we ranking? Because Patrick Mahon has played his best when his best was required. Has it happened? Every single time? No, but he's, he's won multiple Super Bowls. He's won both Super Bowl MVPs. He's won multiple MVPs. Like his resume speaks for itself. Postseason success matters. And yes, it is. When our wins a quarterback stat, I don't think they should be, but that's the way a lot of people compute it. And so if they're a quarterback stat, then the losses are a quarterback stat too, whether, whether it's fair or not. If you take it one way, you got to take it the other way too. So without them having that success, they're going to be a little bit more without them having that success. You have to give Sam Darnold his credit. He's taken two teams, different franchises to 14 wins in a national football league back to back years. That has to matter. And then he made up for the things he was unable to achieve the year before. He, he came up short. His team came up short in Minnesota. I have yet to hear him make an excuse to, to, to blame anybody, to say anything other than I could have been better. I let my teammates down and I'll be better next time. Well, this was the next time, Mitchell, this playoff run was the next time. And what, what did he do? He played better for an entirely different city, entirely different franchise and didn't have a bad word to say about anybody that, that any place he was before. I love that. And I love that. And I think he's going to get everything he deserves. He's getting, hopefully he gets the praise he deserves. He was a number three pick in the draft. And when you pick a guy, number three in the draft, you expect them to find that one day hold that Lombardi Trophy up and he's one of the few that have. It's rare that you find a guy who was drafted third overall, that has a chip on his shoulder, but I'm sure Sam Darnold does with everything that's been talked about him in the media and the way he doesn't, like you said, Richard, he doesn't really let it define him whatsoever. He's letting his play do the talking now and he's turned in. I don't even want to call him a game manager because at one point I said, you know, hey, he just needs to be a good game manager and let the defense do their thing. Richard, they were taking shots downfield. I mean, he was getting Cooper cup involved. AJ Barner involved. These weren't dinking dunk. You know, let's not turn the ball over plays. Like he's setting up the ability for canine to run by taking these deep shots and holding the defense accountable. Speaking of the running game a little bit, you talked about how the Seahawks are not going to let Kenneth Walker out of the building if you're John Schneider. How important was it the run game in this game? Because it seems like it really defined their offense and allowed Sam Donald to play freely out there as well. The run game was the most important part of this game. And I think that set the tempo, that set the pace and that set the tone. Kenneth Walker set the tone. Majority of their explosives came from this run game and their biggest play of the night got called back because of a jail in Sundale hold on, on, uh, the linebacker 14, uh, spilling. Spillane, spilling on the holding call on spilling. But that would have been the swanson. That would have been the replayed over and over and over because of how Kenneth Walker, you know, set up his blocks, popped it out. I think that would have ended the, the, the debate about who was the MVP. Obviously people were saying Jason Myers deserved consideration. And I thought that was true too. He set the record. He broke the record for field goals in a game. You know, he, he, he did his part, but the level of difficulty was it there? How many plays is he playing during the game? Those things matter when you talk about Super Bowl MVP. Maybe there should be an award for special teams because I think the punter, Dixon had an incredible game. He was a weapon in this game, uh, pin them inside the, the five yard line multiple times. Um, I think he averaged 40, almost 48 yards of punt. It was just, it was magnificent. And I, and that just goes to how complete the Seattle Seahawks team is from top to bottom, bottom defensively, offensively. Every man mattered in this game and every phase matters. And they, you could see the, the energy and attention to detail that they put into every phase of this team. And that's why they have the ultimate success of winning a Super Bowl and making it look easy. Everybody said the game against the Rams, the NFC championship was the Super Bowl. And that's the way it looked. That's the way it looked after watching this game, you know, people were like, Oh, this is so boring. It was not boring. It wasn't a boring game. It was a team that was well coached and Uberly prepared for this moment playing against a team that was less prepared, playing against a team that was not ready for the, the, the, the issues that they were going to have to deal with. And I don't like that narrative because it, it, it motivates the league to create more rules and things to help these offenses have success that they don't deserve. Like. This game is about running and hitting and being physical, being detailed, like doing your job effectively. And every time they make another rule to, to, to handicap the defense and, and pump up the offense, like you cheapen the game. And so I don't, I don't like fans saying, Oh man, it wasn't enough points. And we didn't see touchdowns and big plays. You didn't see sloppy defense. You seem too well coached defenses and offenses that were trying to manipulate them and trying to dictate the pace that could not. The plays that were there were made. The plays that were not there, we're not going to be made. This new England Patriots offense has not been anything special during these playoffs. You didn't, I didn't expect them to be anything special this week. I thought they should have lost multiple times. They deserve to lose multiple times. And, and that defense kept them in a game. You talked about the Houston Texans game. I mean, if CJ Stroud doesn't have those turnovers, I don't think they, I don't think they're in that game. I don't think they're all fence. Didn't think that say, man, they, they really got the Houston Texans defense pig because they didn't. I don't think they did anything really extraordinary against the chargers. I thought the chargers defense beat him up. That's why Drake may has been sacked was sacked 15 times in those three games. And the Seattle Seahawks exposed that will Campbell. He was set. Yeah, I don't, I don't know, because I don't know offensive line talk, but from what I'm understanding, he wasn't getting his feet set. He wasn't shooting his hands early enough. And that led to him getting beat multiple times, but he's been beat like a drum this entire playoff run. When your first round pick top four pick is a, is a fish out there. And that's the way they see him on tape. Regardless of how you feel it, feel about it. It's a chess game. And if one of the pieces is consistently getting taken, it's not about personnel and personal attacks or anything like that. When the Seattle Seahawks prepared for this game, they saw weakness and they exploited it. They isolated him versus multiple defenders. They thought Derek Hall's power could overwhelm him. It did. They thought Boye, my face, speed. They thought the Marcus Lawrence's speed and power. They thought these things would be an issue for that young man. And then even the, the, the left guard, you got a rookie left side of your offensive line. I think they gave up nine of the 19 pressures that, that the, uh, Patriots gave up and they gave up three sacks because it's youth, you know, will they get better? Will they get stronger? Will they understand the game more? No question about it. Could they be all pros, all world players in the future? No question about it. But in this game, it's very unfigured, for unforgiving. If you feel a weakness, you see a weakness. That's where you go. And it's not about making anybody feel good or feel bad. It's about winning the game. And that's what the Seattle Seahawks did consistently. That's what this defense did consistently. They prepared really well and they showed up in the biggest moment in the biggest ways and that's witherspoon. That's Julian Love played a great game. Kobe Bryant, big hits all over the place. Ernest Jones all over the place. Uh, Byron Murphy, Leonard Williams, the list goes on. They played the classics. They played the hits and they played them over and over and over like a great 90s club. They sure did, Richard. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. I know it's tough with no football, but like the song says, I bet I will survive. With Hard Rock Bet, there's always something to bet on every night. Hoops, hockey and so much more. Plus all the great same game, parlay, live betting and player prop options. You're used to. And did you know Hard Rock Bet is the official sports betting partner of the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic? So they know their basketball. 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I mean, I know Nick M and Warriors had this incredible run this playoffs, but Devin Witherspoon, man, I mean, the way he came off that edge for the sack, the way he was playing so aggressive, you see why they value him so high in that draft to take him, well, the fifth overall, right? So to take him top five and see something in a product out of Illinois. Richard, who did you like most defensively? Who stood out the most to you? That's impossible to say because yes, I love Devin Witherspoon. I mean, he plays like a maniac every game. He plays with a relentless effort and attitude really plays way bigger than his than his weight and size says. And he does it consistently. But if you look that, Derek Hall and the impact he had in this game, huge. If you looked at Leonard Williams, even if the stats weren't there, the impact was huge byron Murphy impact was huge. In the back end, you look at a Josh Job and the game he had just quietly. Josh Job has had an incredible season as quietly, quietly, quietly quiet of a great season as I've seen in this league. And if he was a free agent, we'd be talking about a lot of money being paid to him and his family. So I think the Seahawks are going to do something to extend him. He's very important to what they do defensively. Again, Tariq Wuland played a really good game, had the one, one play against Matt Collins, where I think the entire defense fell asleep. They got him on the same play. That the Rams got him on the week before. They saw, he saw number two going across, which, which means, hey, two, two across, one in. And all the, all the receiver does is stutter, you know, show that he's going to break to the dig. You break, as soon as you break, he goes up and they, they had a touchdown. That's what happens against Pooker and Necour. That's what happened in this game. But again, he played a good game. Nick MnWarri, I think the entire defense could have got an MVP. They could have gave the MVP trophy to their entire defense and, and nobody would have really batted an eyelash at that because of how impactful all of them were. And I think that's the reason none of them got it because you couldn't figure out who to give it to. Quite literally, you have to give it to the entire defense. Richard, we got to talk a little bit about the Patriots. You know, we talked quite a bit throughout this season about how much of a cakewalk their schedule was. And then they get to the playoffs and they play a beat up Chargers team. They were very fortunate and obviously I don't want to say it wasn't to their credit, but obviously CJ Stroud had a horrendous showing. And then ultimately they play the Broncos without bone X. What does this say about the AFC? Is this just a down year for the AFC or the Seattle Seahawks just that dominant? Well, it's, it's not a down year. I mean, I guess, yes, it's down year. Let's not go crazy about that because. If you walk into the playoffs without Patrick Mahones there, without the Marjax, in which who could have easily made the playoffs with, you know, the miss kick changed all everybody's trajectory in that game. But without those guys in the playoffs for that side, they're so top heavy, so quarterback centric. Pretty much anybody you put out there after that was going to struggle with this defense. Now, the Denver Broncos had a defense that they felt really good about. Vance Joseph and his scheme, they, they've done a really good job all season long. I thought they could, that would have made a really fun defensive game had they made it. Unfortunately, bow nicks gets, gets injured. I think second to third last play of the game. Otherwise that would have been the, the Super Bowl rematch that everybody was looking for to, to really good defenses going at it. We saw the way the Seattle Seahawks battled against the Houston Texans in that ferocious defense. They, they found a way to make that a dogfight in Seattle. So that would have been a good matchup, but unfortunately it didn't work out that way. So you don't want to say anything's luck because it's not, they won those games. They won, they didn't tell Sean Payton not to kick the field goal. They didn't do all that. They, they won the game that was in front of them. So they earned their way to be there. I did not think anybody on the AFC side would be able to beat the Rams or the Seahawks, if I'm being honest, regardless of who, who it was in the playoff field that, that was, that made it this year. So I don't, I don't, it's, it's just one of those years. You know, there are other years where you look up in the Kansas city chiefs, look like the class of the, the, the NFL and you look like, Hey, who on the NFC side is going to, going to be able to battle with them and, you know, use this to Niners or the Eagles. And, and then it's a dogfight and Patrick Mahon's may pill it out. He may not, but without him in it, the AFC just didn't seem as formidable. And I'm not saying this game was, was, wasn't ever going to be close, but I called it being a two touchdown game and it was a two touchdown guy. You did. It sure was. And their quarterback, Drake may, I mean, listen, he was in this MVP conversation, whether you thought he deserved to be or not. And it became a lot closer of a race for that MVP than I think a lot of folks anticipated Matthew Stafford narrowly won it. In fact, he received 24 first place votes to Drake mays, 23. Richard Drake may struggle this game. I think the entire New England Patriot offense struggled this game, but obviously with loss comes opportunity to grow. What do you think that Drake may needs to focus on most in order to take that next step and be an MVP in this league? Well, it's, it's a lot of things. And then it's not all on Drake may not all the things are in his control. They need to, they need a more talented team. He needs more protection. You can't, you can't get sacked. I think he was sacked 22 times in these playoffs, you know, 22 times. And his shoulder was, was hurt and you can't play that, that way. And expect to have a ton of success. You've got to protect him. He has to do a better job getting the football out quickly. But Josh McDaniel has to give him some hot reads. They have to give him answers when, when there's blitzes coming and you got deep developing routes and nobody's hot, nobody's looking when it's time for him to win the pressures on the way and he needs an outlet. You, you have to give him an outlet. So you have to set him up for success. And I think that's an effort that includes the entire coaching staff to say, Hey, we got to be able to recognize these, these pressures, recognize who we're playing against and give him answers that he can get to really quickly if pressure gets home. And I think that's a big part of it. I think getting him more talent at receiver. I like K. Sean booty. I like Douglas. Uh, obviously digs is a veteran who does it well, but I think they need to continue to invest in that position. I don't Mac, Mac Collins is the one who makes the big play in the Super Bowl. Like he's the one who scores a touchdown for you to, to, to kind of get going. I, I don't think that's what they expected when they signed him. You need a big time receiver that can go get it. Do they make a trade for AJ Brown or a receiver like that? Who's, who's a real bona fide number one receiver? I think that's what's going to have to happen. You're going to have to see some growth from Travion Henderson. His, his opportunities were limited because of how bad he was in the pass game. He couldn't pass protect. He, they couldn't trust him in past protection. So you can't be out there. So we're monitoring Stevenson, who isn't as good and as explosive as Travion Henderson in a past game has to be out there because he's more reliable and past blocking. They know he's going to pick up the right guy. He's going to be where he's supposed to be and be and not be a liability out there. So that's some on the personnel and the players just getting better at their job. But I think you have to surround him with more talent. Um, I didn't think it was a close race for the, for, for the MVP at all. And I think that's what I hate about the voting now is their justification for things is like, Hey, this guy's team is worse and they're doing better than you expect them to. So he's the MVP. Like that's not, that's not, that's not it for me. Who's playing better? And if, and this goes both ways, if, if Drake may had, had thrown for what was it 40, 46 touchdowns and had eight interceptions, then we'd be screaming the same way that Drake may should be the MVP. But you're not going to say a guy with, with double digit less passing touchdowns is better than the other guy. I'm sorry. That's not the world we live in. And, and I, and I don't even like the discussion or like, well, you don't understand the full scope. Yes, I do. I understand that I watched Matthew Stafford playing them most competitive division in national football league and put up those numbers. I watched him play against this same Seattle Seahawks defense that Drake may struggled royally with during a regular season and throw for 470, 470 and five touchdowns. Like that, that was the end of it right there. That should have ended it, ended the conversation. I did not say, see a signature performance like that from Drake may against a really top defense. And is that, is that his fault that they didn't go against one of the great defenses? No, it's not. But if you're, if you're not going to put up those kinds of points and everybody points to Matthew Stafford's one yard touchdowns or whatever the case may be. I think he had a double digit of those with connecting with a Devante Devante. Devante Adams, but at the end of the day, stats are stats, baby. Stats are stats numbers are numbers and he's out there playing like this in the biggest games. They lost that game to the Seattle Seahawks that he threw and it wasn't garbage time. They were battling. It's an overtime game. He scored an overtime. He gave his team a chance. They scored, got the PAT. The Seahawks just went for two and got it. Only reason he loses that game is because he doesn't have another chance. He left, he left the field with the lead. And so as a quarterback, he did everything you could to put your team in position. Yes, he has poking the cool and a great team around him, but that's what happens. Rarely are you going to have a great offense without great players around you. Rarely are you going to see MVPs without Pro Bowlers on their team. It's rare and sure it happens, but it's only happening more nowadays because there's some weird fixation with, with saying, Hey man, these guys, it's a feel good story. Like man, they shouldn't be here. Like this is a national football league guys. Like numbers have to matter. If numbers don't matter, then let's stop, let's stop having it and just give it to whoever you feel good about. You know, Hey, who's the, who's the most unlikely hero this year? That's the MVP. That's not how it works. And that's not how it worked before. And so if they would have not gave it to Stafford with 46 touchdowns to eight interceptions, I mean, that this probably would have been the last time I had any respect for this award. This probably would have been the last time I even thought about it. I'm right there with you. I mean, not only did it beat him statistically, but more obvious to me was the eye test and I think it's just got to be simple. Who would you want to face less? I would far less like to face Matthew Stafford than I would Drake may. Matthew Stafford has got that killer instinct and he showed it all season long. Richard for the Seattle Seahawks to take care of him, both in the division and in the playoffs is a remarkable testament to how good this team is. Richard, I'm looking at this roster and this Seattle Seahawks roster is young. They've got a lot of cap space going into this offseason. I'm just going to rattle off some names here for you. Nick MnWari, 21, Byron Murphy, 23, JSN, 23, Tori Horton, 23, Ray Zabel, 23, Devin Witherspoon, 25, Charles Cross, 25, Charbonnet, 25, K9, 25. Kobe Bryant, 26, Ernest Jones, 26, Rick Woolen, 26, Rashid Shahid, 27. Your boy, Julian Love, 27 and Sam Darnold, who's under team control, 28. Do we have a dynasty in the making here in Seattle? I don't know. I don't know, but it feels like it. I hate getting getting the cart before the horse, but they won the first one and they won it in convincing fashion and you feel good about the team coming back. You feel good about the scheme and the coaching staff. Will Clint Kubiak going to the Raiders matter? Yes, it'll matter. Will there be continuity? You have a veteran quarterback who knows how to navigate this offense, who knows. You know, that's why quarterbacks are so important because the offensive coordinator is great, but a quarterback who also understands the scheme, understands what they do well and that's not leaving. And so I think having Sam there for another year and you got to remember, this is his first year with these guys. They lost Tori Horton early in the year. They lost some of their weapons earlier in the year and they'll get those guys back. And I think they'll invest even more on the offensive side because they feel great about what they have on a defensive side. I don't think they're going to try to draft more D-Lime. And even though I mean, you can never have enough, I think guys are more up to take team friendly deals because of how successful and how great this staff is, how great this team is, how great the culture is. And I don't think they want to go anywhere else. They know they have something special here. I don't think they're going to lose a lot of coaches to Clint Kubiak's staff because it's that's such an unknown, you know, in such an unstable organization. They fired multiple coaches within after the first year coaching. So do you want to leave a potential dynasty to go somewhere that where your staff could be fired if things don't go well and you don't have you're not inheriting a really talented team to begin with? So I don't think that he's going to take a lot of the staff with him. But we'll see how that goes. But I think this is a sustainable model with the way they have it constructed. And I look forward to them using Shahid in a more aggressive way and working hard. They have a lot of cap space, but they have a lot of guys they have to retain. And I think they're going to work to retain them. And, you know, I think they're going to work to retain Kobe Bryant and Josh Joe to start to req woolen. I think there there'll be a conversation, but I expect him to go out and get a lot of money. You know, I think he's going to be a highly sought after free agent, especially for man-centered teams. And will the sea outs be able to match him? Will they be able to convince him to stay? I think Josh Joe will be more of a discounted price because he's undrafted. This is his first year. Was he a full time starter? He didn't have the he doesn't have the baggage that not not necessarily baggage, but he doesn't have the. He doesn't have necessarily the success that to req woolen has shown to req woolen was a pro bowler. He's gotten a little bit of accolades. He's shown success in the sleep, the ability to take the football away. So I think they'll work hard to retain Josh Joe, but it'll still be double digits. It'll still be 10 plus million dollars that they have to spend per year to retain him. Kenneth Walker is obviously the biggest name on this list. The Super Bowl MVP, he has to be retained. How he played at the end of this year almost made it. It was like the light popped on like he gets it. He gets it more now than he ever has. So you have to work hard to retain your guys and how much is it costing to retain a running back nowadays? It's going to be 13 million, 14 million. The cap's just gone up. You're not paying your quarterback top of the market. That's why you're able to retain these guys, but you have to. That's an important part of these dynasties is being able to retain the guys that helped you get there. Well, it's safe to say John Schneider is on an absolute heater. The way he's been drafting, Richard, the his draft picks is succession of drafts. Kickstarted the L.O.B. era, right? When you, Cam, Bobby, you know, obviously they got the quarterback and Russell and to get Sam Darnold and pluck him out of free agency, then to have a draft with Nick M and Warry, Gray Zable, you know, obviously Byron Murphy, JSN, all these guys coming in recent drafts. You know, now it's time to turn the page to the free agency out of all those names that you just listed, which one do you think is most important that they secure and bring back next year? Well, it's Kenneth Walker. It's Kenneth Walker. You just saw Zach Charbonne was a very important part of this season. And when he was injured, I think there was a lot of uncertainty for a lot of people because they've done it by committee for so long this season. You know, they split carries because you don't want to put all the workload on one running back. The K nine has it was was a little beat up throughout his career when he when he had to take those kind of carries consistently. And what he showed over the last five games is he could carry the workload once the end of the season came like, Hey, maybe throughout the season, he does need some by committee, you know what I mean? Help to take some of the pressure off of. But when it's money time, you can you can lean on him in that way and expect him to have success. And I think that's important. The continuity there is important. So to allow him to walk away with what he just did this playoff run would just be silly to me. And I don't think he wants to go and I don't think the team wants him to go. So I think that's the most important piece. And I think the rest of the pieces fall in place after you get him secured. You're spot on. I mean, it's very unfortunate what happened to Zach Charbonnet with the ACL injury, but no one benefited from it more than Kenneth Walker. Like I said, I witnessed his first hand when he was at Michigan State. He was alone back in that backfield was carrying the ball 30 plus times a game to know with no problem wearing down defenses. I think the rest of the world got to see that on Super Bowl Sunday. Kenneth Walker taking over 27 carries over 130 yards rushing. I'm with you. I think he's very vital that they bring back. Obviously, Kobe Bryant has come on here this year. You mentioned job show, Rick Woolen, but they have gotten an embarrassment of riches on the defensive side of the ball. I, too, agree. Canine is a must bring back for this team. Richard, it's been a hell of a run. You were one of the few, I would say that called this from training camp. And I go ahead. Because I want to address this thing because they're going to keep doing it. And unless we address it. Um, the dress away, my friend, the whole comparison thing, this LLB, MOB comparison thing that they want to continue to do and who's better. And I love, I loved what they, they did this season. It was fantastic. But we live in a day and age. Everybody feels the need to compare, compare, compare. Is this better than that? Is this better than that? Is this person better than this person who played this time? Like we don't know. We don't know. But sometimes you don't have to compare. You know, it's like great art, Mitchell. Do you, do you compare like a van go to a Picasso? Like, no, you just appreciate they're both beautiful. You know, you appreciate that they're both incredible pieces of art by incredible artists. You don't need to say, well, Picasso's was better because of ABC. Our van goes was better. Our, our Michelangelo's was, was better because of this. No, you don't need to do it. You don't need to do it. Just appreciate the art. Appreciate the incredibly dominant Super Bowl champion team that you just got to witness. These guys are incredible in their own right. They don't need to be associated with us or compare or high, you know, 2.0 or two. They are 1.0 original unique versions of themselves. And they did an incredible job, had an incredible season, and they deserve all the shine and credit. Y'all don't need to tie them. It take us in any way to take away their shine. Let them shine, baby. They went out there and did it. We, we didn't have nothing to do with it. You know, we talked to the guys a little bit, tried to try to answer questions and support them in the ways any veteran and any old guys would. But at the end of the day, these guys went out here and did something incredibly special, had a dominant season and an incredible way when the odds were really long. I think there were 60 to one. I think it was the most improbable Super Bowl champion like the last 20 years, which, which is a testament to the guys in the building. And I thought, again, when I went in training camp, when I went to training camp, you could feel it. You could feel the attention to detail. You could feel the hunger. You could feel the, the, how locked in everybody was and how much they care. And that's why I felt good about them winning the division and particularly winning the Super Bowl because that you don't have that everywhere. Everybody doesn't take this series and everybody doesn't have that, that cohesiveness, that togetherness, that brotherhood. I could feel the, the, the brotherhood starting with the offensive line. And what's crazy is Gray Zabel was at the heart of that. Gray Zabel was at the heart of the, the, the jailing of the offensive line coming together throughout training camp. And I think he's a big reason they have the, the, the success they do. I mean, obviously him and Sundale played together at North Dakota state, but the way he and Charles Cross had a relationship, Charles Cross is in training camp like, Hey man, I can't miss practice because I can't let my guy down. This is training camp. And sometimes guys are so quick to be selfish in training camp for seeing, I gotta do what's best for me. And that's fine. You know what I mean? Nothing wrong with that. But when you're trying to win Super Bowls, it's we over me. And when you try to get paid and have a long career, sometimes those things don't align the same way. Sometimes it's me over we because I got to make sure my, my family's fed. I got to make sure my body sustains for a long time. But when I started to hear those things in training camp, I said, uh-oh, this team might have the makings of something really cool because it's not always about talent level when you got guys that'll play for one another, when you got guys that'll sacrifice for one another, when you got guys that'll go out there and put their body in harms way, not for selfish gains or selfish needs, but because they care about the guy next to them. That's when you have special teams. And then you get into situations where things get adverse, things get crazy, things get out of hand. And instead of attacking in each guy, you know what I mean? And plotting you do like a family do does and you, you overcome it together. And I think that's what I understood about this team. And that's what I saw on training camp along with Mike McDonald scheme and how much he cares and how detailed he is and how much humility and how humble of a man he is, his, his confidence and his trust and everything that he's built comes from the work he puts in, the work that his staff puts in there. There's no fluff about it. No fluff about who they are and what they put out there. It's the work that they're putting in. They don't, they don't, it's no guesswork involved. They want to put their guys in the best position possible and get the best guys out there to go out there and do the job. It's nothing personal. It's all business. And those guys ran an incredible business, incredible team, incredible culture and congratulations to them. The Seattle Seahawks are taking over modern day football right now, Richard. Since 2002, they have 10 division titles. They got four Super Bowl appearances. They got two Lombardi trophies hanging in their trophy case now. They're starting to make some other fan bases envious. I mean, they've turned into a juggernaut. I don't see it stopping anytime soon. I think that this team is going to go on a little bit of a run here, Richard, whether they can replicate this year or not, they're going to be highly competitive going into next season. The 12s in Seattle, congratulations. You guys deserve this. Rocking the Seattle Seahawks hat and support. Richard, it's been a hell of a year. Love sitting down with you numerous times a week down the stretch. You've been committed. Your work ethic is unmatched and it was an awesome time being able to spend on radio row in San Francisco with you. Pat, this past week, my man, I will let you side us off as we welcome home. The Seattle Seahawks Super Bowl champs, congratulations again. And I would say the same thing about you, Mitchell. I appreciate all the hard work and sacrifice showing up every single week for us, for the fans, even when sometimes your Detroit Lions did not, they let you down a little bit, but you, you know what, Mitchell, you weathered the storm, you showed up and we surely do appreciate that. We appreciate every one of you fans for joining us every single week for tuning in for hitting that sub button for hearing what I have to say and what Mitchell has to say about the national football league and what's transpired. You could be anywhere in the world, but you're here with us and nobody appreciates you more than we do. 12 Seattle Seahawks fans. Enjoy this moment. Enjoy every second of it because this is what it's about. The trophy is coming back to Seattle and the parade is on Wednesday. Hopefully we'll see you there. Enjoy it. Get bragging rights, all the nonsense. Write the stuff on Twitter. You've been waiting to write. Find those receipts. Put them up. It's time to celebrate because your Seattle Seahawks are world champions. Once again, appreciate you. Hit that sub button. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.