The Hidden Murderer - Fairbanks, Alaska

Now with Little Plus, collect points that you can turn into possibilities. Pepper abilities. Hmm, pasta abilities. Or art abilities. Kaya abilities? So collect and spend your Little Plus points on hundreds of rewards or money off coupons. Little. More to value. Exclusions apply for T's and C's, little.co.uk slash lptv18plusgb only. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo choo. Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another insane, crazy edition of Small Town Murder Express and it's a little bit special today because today is our 700th episode, everybody. Holy shit. 700 we've made it to, which is incredible. Thank you. We couldn't be at 700. If no one was listening, we wouldn't have done 200. Never mind 700. So thank you so much for being here and listening to these and for people who've heard all 700. Man thank you. You're incredible. So we're going to have a wild one today. Before we get to all that though, shut up and give me murder.com is where you get your tickets for live shows. Also merchandise, all the merchandise you can buy. The tickets for live shows looks like May 30th and Royal Oak has sold out. So thank you, Mr. Gimble for doing that. We appreciate that. So the next available shows are September 18th in Milwaukee at the Pat's beautiful venue, great place. And September 19th in Minneapolis at the State Theater, which is also a really nice place. Minneapolis, get in there. Milwaukee, you're doing really well. That is a big name. Back to back huge venues though. You can sell those out. You'll make my year. Thank you so much. We have then October 3rd in Dallas, October 16th and 17th in San Jose in Sacramento and the November 13th and 14th in Territown, New York and Boston. So come see a show, shut up and give me murder.com. Definitely do that. 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Hey, it's back. A lot of people were disappointed we were not doing that this week, but we'll do it the next one. And anything that's happening in the world that has nothing to do with politics because maybe you're probably here enough about that. We will look it into all that. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports is where you get all of that. Plus on top of all that, you get everything we put out. All our shows, Crime and Sports, your stupid opinion, small town murder, all add free with your Patreon. Because we spoil you. That's right. And then also you'll get a shout out at the end of the regular show where Jimmy will mispronounce your name even though he'd love to get it correct. So that said, think it's time everybody. Let's go. Sit back. Here we go. Let's clear the lungs here. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Now let's go. Let's go. We're going far this week. We're going to Alaska. God damn. It's been a while. So I'm like, you know what, for 700, let's go to Alaska. There are always crazy episodes up there. Because just to have the thought that I'm going to go to Alaska, that's a screwy thought right there. That's a wild place, man. It's beautiful and everything, but it's wild up there. It's not easy to live up in Alaska. So right there you're going to get the crazy stuff. So removed from everything. This is in Fairbanks, Alaska, which I've actually heard of. Some of these I haven't heard of. This is in Eastern Alaska. It is really in the middle of nowhere, this place. It's by itself. Is this near Denali? You hear like, well, you can see it from here. You hear like Fairbanks, Anchorage, Juno, and you think they're probably in the same general region. Alaska is enormous and it's huge. So this is about six hours and 15 minutes to Anchorage. It's 20 minutes to North Pole, Alaska. That's what we're talking about. And then it's about 12 hours to our last Alaska episode, Clowick, Alaska. But the 12 hours is like planes and boats and you can't just drive in there. It's the craziest. You got to take so many forms of transportation. It's crazy. That was episode 644, the social media mob murder. Remember that where they killed that old man over? Oh, fuck those people. They thought maybe he did something and spread rumors about him. Fucking jerks. That was rough. And that's why whenever we see like, whenever people post, like they'll post in all our groups and stuff, somebody kills like, you know, this guy who like did this and I'm like, calm down everybody. Let's prove it first. I mean, we'll kill him. How about that? But don't just kill him ahead of time. Because we don't know. Yeah. It's not the window. That was 100 years ago. That's what I mean. So this is the borough. It's not a county. It's a borough. Yeah. It's Fairbanks North Star. That's the borough. Okay. Area code 907. A lot of people here, 33,000, 18 people have found their way to this place. That's why we know about it. Median household income, $66,572. So decent. The fuck do they do for money? Pretty close to the national average. Median home cost $275,600. Wow. I would think houses would be more expensive because they'd be really expensive to build there. Just to get the materials in. And to insulate. Yeah, all of that. It has nicknames this place. One is the Golden Heart City. Sure. And then another one is pretty similar, Golden Heart of Alaska. Yeah. There's a lot of gold up there. A lot of gold. And that's how the place started, as we'll talk about with a little bit of history right there. Thank you. That was a perfect set. Yeah. That's great. August 1901, ET Barnett founded a trading post on the South Bank of the Chennar River. And a gold discovery near the trading post sparked the big Fairbanks gold rush. And that's when miners started coming here. They had a big boom in construction. And November 1903, they, the area's residents voted to incorporate Fairbanks. Nice. So make it an actual place here. Barnett became the first mayor. Oh. And things went great while the gold rush was going on. Thank God for ET. That'd be good. Then World War I happened. Uh-oh. And the population plunged because all those able-bodied young miners got drafted. And that's it. And then it rose again, the population, during the Great Depression because the price of gold increased, so people were looking for gold. Then in the 40s and 50s, it became kind of a staging area for military depots during World War II. And then for the Cold War II, because Alaska's close to Russia. So that was another big deal there. And then there was the discovery of the Prudoh Bay oil field in 1968. And then that became a big part of the oil boom at that point too. And so, you know, that's how that goes. Is Alaska the largest state? I believe it's bigger than Texas, yeah. I think that's true, right? I think that's true, yeah. Until 1940, none of the streets in Fairbanks were paved, none of them. Until when? 1940. Holy shit. They didn't begin a large-scale paving operation until 1953 when the city paved 30 blocks of streets. For 13 years, they were just willy-milly paving here and there. Yeah. Just if people wanted to, yeah, exactly. Here and there. Yeah, yeah. And then there was the project or anything like that. By the way, Fairbanks, mathematically, is the coldest city in the United States. Is that right? Freezing there. I mean, negative 50 is normal. It's fucking crazy. Reviews of this town. Here we go here. Now, this will exactly of what we just talked about. The title of this review is Plug-in Your Vehicle. Exclamation point. Your oil will freeze. Your block heaters you need. Yeah. You need to plug in your vehicle for almost half the year here. You also need a remote auto start if you don't have what it takes to handle a hard seat at negative 40 degrees. Hard seat. Yeah. Your seat's frozen. So you sit on it. Be sure to use zero-weight oil and multiple viscosity oil for the drivetrain also. Go to Alaskan Tent and Tarp to get a grill cover for your car as driving 50 miles an hour has the windshield factor of negative 88 hitting your radiator when the ambient temperature is at negative 40. Your antifreeze will still freeze. Will freeze. Yeah. It's not made for this. It deletes the anti. Get a grill cover for it. Keep the heat in. Summers are like heaven on earth. The four days of summer I feel like. The irises are fleeting. The tourists abound and there's actually thunder here along with a once or twice a year heavy rainfall. I miss the summers there, especially the Solstice Street Party when it's in the plus 90 degree range. When I rode a Harley to work, the Northern Schools Federal Credit Union time and temperature said 95 degrees when my ex-girlfriend from Kentucky was here for Christmas. It was easily below zero and at times negative 10 to negative 20. It can go from negative 20 to 95. Yeah. Yeah. That's not normal though. That's a. Whoa. Then I'll do another one very quickly. Two stars. A dumpster fire just waiting to happen. By that I mean it's just not like it used to be. It used to be safe. I'd even walk around downtown by myself as a kid or with a friend who was about the same age. I used to always say Fairbanks is a town that seems to be stuck in time and not just the town, but the people as well. Then they talk about black mold and asbestos and crime rates. It's all wet. People are complaining. Things to do here though. This is very exciting. The redneck space needle is here. What is that? That's a local nickname for a guy. Jim Curley Rowland. His house is Curley's rotating house, which is a structure he built in 1997. The guy's a gold miner and it consists of a blue 16 sided clubhouse perched atop a 75 foot construction crane. Oh, crane. What? It's just sitting in the air. It's like a observation site. I don't know what he's doing here. That's not meant to stay there forever. It's been there for 30 years. That's coming down soon. Crazy. The house was built using a salvaged crane tower from Anchorage and was designed to both elevate guests 75 feet into the air and rotate. Are you out of your fucking mind? It was originally conceived as a private clubhouse for Rowland and his friends born from a mix of what he called, quote, boredom and Budweiser. They got shitfaced in the middle of nowhere and were like, what if we just put like some real high up in the air? We could all sit and drink here. I'll bet you I put my fucking house up there. Wouldn't that be better? It's still standing invisible from the road, but not a public tourist attraction. It's on private property. And it's unsafe. Well, in 2004, a friend of the owner fell off the platform and died because it's 75 feet and that led to the house being used less frequently for parties. You know, not as fun anymore. They also have the world Eskimo Indian Olympics up here as well. All right. And yeah, which sounds like native Olympics. Yeah, it sounds like something your grandfather would say. What do you got? Some Indian Eskimo Olympics up there or something? They all go around with dog sleds and shit. I don't know what happens up there. That's what it seems like. So they have an ancient games like the high kick, the blanket toss. I don't want that. It's got smallpox. You take it. It's a joke. What the fuck is that? And four man carry along. Four man. Native hot potato. I don't know what that is, but okay. Murder. Here, we're here to talk about. Let's talk about some murder. Okay. Monday, April 26th, 1993. Let's go to then. 2 p.m. Here we go. Now 2 p.m. Things are going fine. The University of Alaska Fairbanks. Oh yeah. Bartlett Hall is the dorm that we're at here. It's eight stories of dorms basically built into a hillside here where, you know, there's a dorm. Yeah. There's three different dorms that all share a lobby of these buildings. They all come to one lobby. The spring semester is one week away from finals. So people are already packing up, getting ready to go home. On the second floor of Bartlett Hall, which is all female floor, by the way, there's a janitor named Aksha Ancheta. Aksha Ancheta. And she's working her way doing the woman's bathroom, which has to be a horrible task. To clean any college kids. College. Anything. Multiple person bathroom, a shared bathroom. That sounds horrible. So she's doing the toilets and her partner, she's got a partner there doing the toilets and she's doing the showers and the bathtub room. Yeah. Okay. So there's a private room with a single tub in it that has a curtain and the curtain is closed, but the light is on. Now what she says is later on, she'll say this, quote, some shower room curtain is just open and some shower room is usually open, but that time was closed. And then when I opened the curtain and then I saw, I was screaming when I open and then there's a bathtub. Then I saw a young lady laying down. It's in broken English, by the way. She's not like, you know, not like she can't form a sentence. It's just not her first language. So she's usually, they're usually open. This one was closed. She opens it. Find a woman laying down, not normal. So she runs out of the bathroom screaming, grabs somebody else and drags them in the bathroom to look at it. I don't want to see it. Make sure I'm not crazy. I think that's all it is. Make sure it's one of these. Like if you're like in an old cartoon when like a drum, when a drum, a drunk sees like Heathcliff talking to his pals or something, they're all like, what the fuck? And they throw the bottle away. It's one of those. But no, so within minutes, the building is cops are there. It's a big deal. In the bathtub is a woman, a young woman, 20 year old named Sophie Sergi. As her name, S-E-R-G-I-E is her last name. She is, and I looked up the pronunciation and I, wow, it is a tough one. She is a native up here. The tribe is the Y-U-P apostrophe I-K. But I looked it up and it says like cup, cupic, cup kick. But the Y is a C. I don't know. It might be a K. Yeah. Yeah. So it might be cup, cup, or cup, cupic, cupic. I'm not sure how exactly you pronounce it because I tried, I looked and I tried. And then the people pronounce it differently to your seats. I'm fascinated with the language too, because it is the most indicefable thing to us. Yeah, I don't know. For a white man to try to figure out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's impressive as fuck that they can rattle it out so fast. It's such an old language, you know what I mean? So it's got a lot in there. Now, it's a 20 year old woman. She's 20 years old, like I said, her name's Sophie. She's been brutalized in here. I mean, absolutely brutalized. First of all, she was raped, number one, which is horrible. Then it gets worse somehow. She was stabbed in the face twice. In the corner of her left eye when she was still alive. Ah, Jesus. She's also been beaten with a blunt instrument and gagged with a ligature as well. So this is horrible. She's also been shocked with a stun gun. This is how many weapons does this person have on them? Honestly, yeah, he's got a utility belt. Weapon should off. It's got a whole belt. And then finally killed with a single 22 caliber round to the back of the head. So we got a gun now too. Gun too. A gun, a knife, a blunt instrument, a ligature and a stun gun. He brought a whole supply bag. Yeah, that's what I mean, which is crazy. The 22 caliber round was finally the cause of death after all that horror she was put through. She's been in the bathtub they think for about 12 hours. It's hard to tell. Somebody's real mad too. That's not just a normal. That's five kinds of horrible. I mean, it's six if you add rape to, I mean, that's an act, not a weapon, but still it's horrifying. You think you're going to die when it's happening. It's fucked up. That's fucking horrible. So in 12 hours, they can't really tell exactly because time of death is hard to nail down. Anyway, even now it's hard to nail down, but when they've been in water, that doesn't help at all as well. Now let's find out about this young lady and what happened here. Sophie Surge, he's born June 4th, 1972 in Pitcus Point, Alaska. Pitcus Point is a, god, I'm going to say it wrong again, Cupkick Village on the lower Yukon River here. They're the largest Alaska native group, by the way. Oh, is that right? Absolutely. Into like, you know, they've been doing, basically they've been in the region for 10,000 years. Long time. When Sophie was born, the population of her town was about 70 people. And it grew to like 250 over the years, but small, little tiny place. So like, University of Alaska must have seemed like a giant city to her compared to where she's from with 50 people there. Now she helped her mother, Elena, run the household and she helped raise her younger brother. She's real small. She's four foot nine. Really? Yeah. That's small, you know? Very small, four nine. It was for a young lady here. And everybody said that she's small, but was very personality. Big areas, yeah. Big personality and had a lot of spirit to her and shit like that. She wanted to join the Navy. That was her dream. Really? She wanted to be in the Navy, but they told her she was too short to do what she wanted to do in the Navy. Not allowed to do that. You can't load the missiles. You can't reach. No, you can't reach. For whatever role she wanted, who knows. So she decided instead to study marine biology. Hell yeah. Which is pretty cool. She liked whales and liked, you know, ocean type things. And up there, they've got so much wildlife. So much wildlife. If you're interested in that, she ends up getting a scholarship from BP. British Petroleum gives scholarships to natives to study shit like that at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. So she enrolled in 1990 and she had been at a high school for two years. I think she dropped out in her sophomore year and then finished or something. This is, she's the first person in her family going to college. Yeah. And really everybody in her 70 person village is like rooting for her as she goes because she's going to college. You know, when you have a village of 70 people and you're all from the same the same tribe and you're whatever, you're all from the same group and all that, you're going to root for people as they go. It's going to be. And as the, yeah, as the first of a family to go to that's pretty impressive. Maybe like that. One of those old time movies when the kids go and like play basketball at some college and all the people are at the train station waving to them and shit at the end. That's what it's like. Now her best friend, Shirley here, Shirley was Suley was also from this area and worked there. And she said this, she said, we were so afraid of failing. We had to make sure we got through school because otherwise our future was home. Our future was in a 70 person fucking town in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. She said, not that home was a bad place, but we had hopes and dreams and we wanted to do things. Understandable. Sophie did very well academically. Her native's, a native studies professor at UAF said she always had questions. She always wanted to learn more after class. December of 1992, she's a sophomore in college and she got braces. Yeah. Needed braces, wanted them for a long time and finally got them. 20 years old ready to do it. Yeah. And she's, they're not, they're expensive too. Yeah. So she ended up taking the spring 93 semester off to work to pay for her braces. She went home. She had two jobs working as a teacher's aide at the Pittus Point School and worked at a clerk in nearby St. May, worked as a clerk in nearby St. Mary's as well. So she could pay for the orthodontics. Now braces need adjusting all the time. So periodically she had to fly back to Fairbanks because that's the only way to get there. She had to fly to Fairbanks to get her braces adjusted. Yeah. It's over 500 miles from her town. That's crazy. Yeah. It's in a small, tiny, one of those little weird planes. 500 miles for an orthodontist appointment. And then back. That's crazy. So it's, but that's how you do it. If you live in rural Alaska, you have to fly to get places. You want straight teeth. All there is to it. So she would fly to Fairbanks, take a cab to the college, stay with her friend Shirley at Bartlett Hall. And Shirley had a single room on the second floor and Shirley would hand Sophie her keys and Shirley would go to her boyfriends there and you know, Sophie would walk to the orthodontist the next morning and then get her flight home. That was the routine. So that's what's going on in 93 in April of 93. She flew in on April 23rd. She flew from Pitcus Point to Alaska. Before leaving Pitcus Point, she stopped at a local store and bought her three-year-old brother a crappy kite that he was thinking it was a crappy kite. And she said though, if you behave while I'm gone, I'll get you a better one when I'm back, when I get back. Oh, nice. Which you can, you can really put that on a kid too and that'll hang over them all weekend. You can go, you want that kite? They'll go, God, I'm sorry. Like, they're really, you can torture a kid with a new prospect of a new kite. You better follow up. You got to get the kid a kite if you was good. You better follow up. I'm good. You better follow up. Because if I'm, what's the point? Yeah. So they all laughed about it and had a good time there. She stayed Friday night with a family friend in Anchorage. And then on April 24th, she flew to Fairbanks. That's how it worked. Her scheduled appointment was Monday morning, April 26th at 10 a.m. Now Sunday, April 25th in the afternoon, Elena, her mom was at, was on in Anchorage here. Sophie was in Fairbanks and they were on the phone and they talked about four o'clock on that April 25th on Sunday. And her mom Elena said, we were laughing about it. That was the last time I talked to her late Sunday and we were talking about that kite. So I guess the kid would kept talking about the kite. So he was like, you better, you better be getting that kid a kite when you get back here. He's a, I want some material on this plastic one sucks. Yeah, this thing doesn't work for shit. They had all that terrible. Paper grommet that you had to put on the plastic. That was fucking awful. They always tore. Because it had to be, it had to be a little breezy, but not too windy or it would explode in the wind. It would fold that motherfucker in half. Fold it, rip it apart. Yeah. So it was like a very small window of wind. Shoot that crossbar two blocks away. Well, that just falls to the ground after it ripped. Yeah. Ah, man. What the fuck? There it is. So now also on this Sunday, final exams are a week away. Like we said, now she's found on Monday afternoon. So, you know, things are, people are doing shit getting ready for final studying. Sophie spends the day with her friends. Her former roommate, Joleen and her friend, Eric, said that they all drove out to a movie. And then they went up to Murphy dome to watch the sunset. Sick. It's a spot outside Fairbanks. And from that spot from the top, you can see Denali. Amazing. Pretty goddamn beautiful. Yeah. So while they're there at Murphy dome, Eric takes a picture of Sophie. She's wearing a blue, she's wearing blue U.S. Navy sweatpants and a multicolored sweatshirt with a hood. And she's got a dark jacket that zips up there. She looks real happy, arms and flung open, you know, whatever. She's having fun laughing. They're taking pictures. Then they head back to the dorm. Sophie runs into another friend, Joanne Sundown, who knows her. And Joanne said Sophie came to her room that day on Saturday, and they sat together and looked through the college catalog, picking out classes for fall, because Sophie was planning on being back in school in the fall. So she was just, you know, getting her shit together here. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you something much better to put on your windows with three day blinds. Three day blinds, the number three day blinds.com. Absolutely. And you're listening to Small Town Murder right now. You're listening to this show. Kind of makes you think maybe I should get some more privacy. 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She's wearing a brightly striped sweater, smoking a cigarette, talking to a bunch of kids. One friend said she was dancing with joy. She was just having a good time. Around midnight, Sophie and Shirley went back inside Shirley's second floor room. Shirley's boyfriend Noah came over. They ordered a pizza and they sat on the dorm room floor and ate pizza, which is such a 20 year old thing to do. You put the pizza on the floor, you sit there, legs crossed, leg it, cross applesauce, eating slices of pizza. I can't sit there long enough to eat a slice of pizza like that anymore. We'd have to help Jimmy up off the carpet. That would be the problem. You could do it, but then I can't feel the feet. I can't feel the feet. You wouldn't just pop up though. You'd like to do a thing where you go to your knees first and then you're like, oh Jesus Christ stretch your back. My toes get some circulation. I can't feel them. No shit. That's funny. So then they watched a movie after the pizza. After the movie, Shirley said good night and went to Noah's and left Sophie in her room. And as she was leaving, as Shirley's leaving, Sophie said she wanted a cigarette. She was going to go out and smoke a cigarette real quick. Shirley told her, oh, it's freezing outside. Don't go out there and smoke. That sucks. The second floor women's shower has exhaust fans. Oh. You know, for the humidity there. So she said, that's people smoking there all the time. Just hold the cigarette up by the exhaust fans. No one will ever know the difference. Okay. So yeah, do one of those. So Shirley said she walked out of Bartlett Hall to go meet Noah. And on the way, she passed a young man on the second floor. She made eye contact with him. She didn't know him. Some random young man. Now at approximately 1 30 a.m. In the bathroom on the west side of the building, a senior named Jennifer Roy was, was taking a shower. She had an exam the next morning and she wanted to, she was studying. She wanted to wake herself up basically. She was getting tired. So the two second floor bathroom share a common wall. So we know where we are. She's on the west side, the other bathroom, the one with the tub is on the east side. So that's how it works. She said she heard something through the wall. She said, because it was the middle of the night, it was quiet. Then all of a sudden I heard someone enter into the bathroom on the other side and then enter, enter into the bathtub room. She said she doesn't hear and didn't hear voices, didn't hear shouting, didn't hear struggling, didn't hear a gunshot. Just heard someone come in there, which was probably Sophie coming into smoke. So that's how that goes. Now students also back at the scene of where this happened in this back, in this bathroom, students have been walking into the bathroom all morning, brushing their teeth. They're all 15 feet away from her and dead in a tub. Nobody notices. They took showers in the open room next door. Nobody opened the tub curtain ever. Oh my God. You know how many fucking kids were in there? Dozens of kids were in there. None of them opened the tub curtain to find this poor girl. I mean, is that thoughtful to like, oh, somebody's in there. It wouldn't be. I think if you see a closed curtain, you just think someone must be in there and you know, think about it because you'd go in there, brush your teeth and leave. It's not like you'd stay in there for two hours and go, how come that person hasn't come out? Right. In the 10 minutes you're there, they were in the tub. I don't know. So it makes sense, I guess. So battalion chief Mitch Flynn from the fire department arrives and he says this, when I came in, I first saw my medic and one of the other medics in there. And when I went into the bathroom, looked into the, look to the right, then there was a body sat in a position with the knees up in the bathtub. Her pants had been pulled down, was a female and her shirt was gone. Her head was leaning forward. There were wounds, but I couldn't tell at the time if they're gunshot wounds or stab wounds. Once we determined that she was deceased, I had my crew exit the room in order to preserve the crime scene. Right. Because I'm sure somebody opened the curtain, saw her and then call the fire department, 911, you don't know if she's alive, you don't know anything. You just need help. You need help. You're not going to sit there and examine the wounds and go, oh no, that's a gunshot wound in the back of the head. So police come, they go over the scene, they do everything here and this is what they put together of what must have happened to her. And I think we can kind of get a general idea too. On the 26th, which would be Monday morning, technically, from 1.30 a.m. to 4.00 a.m., some time in this window of time here, that's when she was attacked, raped, struck with a instrument, choked, stabbed twice in the eye while she's alive, shot with a stun gun and then finally with a .22 caliber bullet. They said her sweatpants are pulled down to her knees, no shirt. Her body wets the tile around the tub. They said the killer at this point turned off the bathtub water, drew the curtain, left the light on and walked out. Wow. They filled it up. Now another witness named Vanessa Allen, who was a freshman, was in the bathroom on the east side, the one we talked about here and she said she remembered feeling uneasy. She said it was a bathtub area and it had a door and I remembered the door was closed and the light was on and that light is never on. Not a lot of people are taking luxurious baths at college. Not a lot. It would just be weird. You're going in and you're fucking taking a shower, quick and go back to your room. In a shared bathroom. In a shared bathroom. Like handles and putting rose petals in there. Oh no, I'm here at night. Yeah, I'm having a hold on. Where's my vibrator? Anybody? Right. It's not happening. Most girls get in there to clean everything off of them from their puke night. I'm not going to soak in that. No, fuck no. She also remembers while she was showering hearing a rustling sound through the wall, but she didn't know what the hell people were doing. People could have been fucking in there, so it's college. You mind your business, I would think. Now another witness, a woman who was in the second floor east bathroom in the early hours that day, also said she saw a man leaving the bathtub area of the bathroom. That's what we're looking for here, because it's an all girls floor. She described him as a white man with a darker complexion, about five foot eight with black hair wearing a gray t-shirt. Okay, we'll find out. This fits a student around here pretty to the tee. A guy named Kenneth Motto, M-O-T-O. So remember that name. Fits him, the description fits him perfectly. So the morning again comes at 9 a.m., this is before Sophie is found, surely walked back to her dorm room from Noah's. The door's unlocked, the lights are on, the TV is on, the bed's still made. Sophie's stuff is still in the room, but she's not. And they know she's got like an orthodontist appointment at 10, so they assume she's in the shower. And she's gonna come back and she probably woke up, put all the lights on and stuff, and then went and took a shower, and she's gonna come back. So Shirley said she was a little annoyed that Sophie left the door unlocked. She was a little like, dude, don't leave my door unlocked. So she walked to the second floor bathroom and heard voices from inside one of the showers. She heard a voice coming, so she called out asking, is Sophie in here? And someone yelled out, yeah, I'm here. Oh. So she assumed, okay, that's Sophie. Now Sophie's already dead, but I don't know if it's someone else named Sophie, or just with this shower water, you just hear, in here, and you go, yeah, I'm in here. Like, is anyone in here? Yeah, I'm in here. But that's what it was. Yeah, I'm in here. Who, nobody, you got water in your ears and all that. You just hear, yeah, I'm in here. Yeah, I'm in here. Nobody would hear their name and say, yeah, I'm in here, right? You would say what? Yeah, what? Yeah. Just an interesting reply. So Shirley leaves the dorm and goes about her day considering Sophie's in the shower, she was going to go to her orthodontist appointment. Now Sophie misses her orthodontist appointment, obviously. At 2pm, the janitor finds her and screams, does all that. Now that evening, Dan Foley, who is the UAF director of Residence Life, gets a call from the director of Bartlett Hall telling him there's a major emergency in the dorm. Right. So they convene a big meeting of all the residents and tell them what happened, of all the kids and kids freaked the fuck out. I mean, as you can imagine. It's horrifying. So the state crime lab in Anchorage flies a team of criminologists to fare banks that evening. Because they don't have all this shit, it's a small town. I mean, 30,000 people, decent size, but you don't have all the major city forensics type of things going on here. And a small young girl murdered in a shower. We send the fucking Calvary. Yeah, and been raped and this is horrible. So I guess his first, the main investigator here, lead criminologist is James Russell Wolfe, which is a cool name for criminologists. Dick Wolfe is the executive producer of, that's so rad. Well, you're in Alaska, your name's Wolfe. That's pretty cool. You know, there's a lot of wolves up there. He might be native too. Possibly. So he said, my first impression was that it just seemed very clean for a crime scene where blood was shed. The area. He said the bathtub itself was dry. The tile around it was dry. Sophie's body was wet to the touch. And a trooper assigned to the case the same day said that her body felt damp even though the tub was bone dry. So they're saying either she had been wet and the tub had been drained or she had been put back into the tub after being washed somewhere else. I don't know why you'd wash her somewhere else if you're in a bathtub. That wouldn't make sense. So they collect physical evidence. There's a decent amount of physical evidence and this is 93. So this is pre, you know, DNA being known by everyone and everyone's an expert. So they collect hairs from her body and the bathtub area, including pubic hairs. Now this is a college bathroom as well. So you're going to find hairs and pubic hairs. The amount of pubes in there has got to be outrageous. I think that's what kept me from college. I mean, besides the grades and the money that you had to take is I'm not showering somewhere where other people's pubes are. I think that's really what kept me. I knew ahead of time not to do my homework because I wasn't going to deal with that later. Public bathrooms, the amount of dick hairs on a urinal. It's disgusting. It's all dick hairs. Blow your fucking mind. It's crazy. It's all dick hairs. How much dick hair we're shedding constantly. There's no one trimming their dick hairs too. Everybody just like massively. These things are long. Three feet long, these fucking things. I see it curled up. You're like, oh my God, what the fuck? Have you ever taken a trimmer to that thing? Never. Now the DNA testing on the pubic hair identifies that it's having come from a Caucasian person and not coming from Sophie. So we know that. There's also swabs of stains from the bathroom floor and bathtub, fingerprints from many surfaces in the bathtub, a red disposable like big cigarette lighter found in the drain of the bathtub. So that might have been in her pocket and went down when the water went away. And bodily fluids from inside Sophie's body. They get things. 1993, they knew where to look for that stuff. They just couldn't really do that much with it. Right. We got it. They got it. They have some stuff here and they have some items as we'll talk about, some sperm and some things of that nature. So police obviously need to investigate. They go talk to the neighbors. They got talked to everybody in the building at this point. So you as a suspect, because they figure it's probably somebody who lives here that would be comfortable enough to go into bathrooms and walk around dorms. So three floors above the bathroom in a third floor dorm is an 18 year old freshman from Auburn, Maine named Stephen Harris Downs. That's a fucking long trip. Yeah. He's from Maine. He went to Edward Little High School in Auburn. And he's just some kid from Maine and he went to decided he wanted to go to Alaska, which is just very weird. He moved into Bartlett Hall. He had a roommate named Nicholas Dazer with a D, D-A-Z-E-R. Now Dazer's also a campus security guard. He was one of the people who was told to help keep shit together and keep people away from the bathroom and all that kind of thing after the body was found here. He guarded a stairwell while people were doing that shit upstairs. Now they met while they were both moving boxes in and met each other and got along. And they play both play music and they study together and party and hang out and all that kind of shit. Dazer would say, I've always considered him a good friend, meaning Stephen probably in Fairbanks at that time, my best friend. Wow. Now Stephen Downs has a girlfriend, her name's Catherine. She's an upperclassman older than him even. How about that? He's doing very well. He spends some nights in her room, some nights in his room. They're going to date for about three years of college. 18, 19 year old boy getting a 22 year old girl, that's impressive. Fucking awesome. So they ask, where were you guys on Sunday night? Stephen said, well I was with my girlfriend, Catherine, on the fourth floor. And people saw me there besides, they said, who can say that, who can verify? And then he said, well she can. And then there was other people coming in and out of the room all night and they'll tell you. He said, we were watching movies on the VCR, watching tapes. They were drinking a little bit, that kind of thing. Now he said, I came and went because my room's only a floor down. So I kind of came and went. So did my roommate hang out for a while, whatever. Okay. Um, so Catherine would say that she couldn't say for certain exactly when Stephen was in her room and when he wasn't in her room. But he was there. Yeah. But sometimes he'd leave her there and then he'd come back, you know, it's a dorm. So they're all kind of moving around. She's trying to watch men at work. She's, yeah, come on guys. Jesus, what are we doing? So Steve brought guns with him to college. Now this is not unusual in Alaska at all. Everybody has guns. Or main. Yeah. Or main. That's what I mean. Both of those places. But Alaska, especially, it is, it's so rural. So a lot of kids bring them because they hunt tons of these kids hunt up here. Some of the kids come to college up here because they want to hunt around the area. So that's where they go. So, uh, now Stephen has two pistols in his room. Later on, a derringer they'll figure out too, but they won't figure that out till later. So on his nightstand, he's got a switchblade as well, a knife. Yeah. Again, not uncommon for an 18 year old kid. One of the guns is an H&R .22 caliber revolver. So there's that now. H&R. H&R revolver. Now they said that they talked to the roommate and he said, yeah, my roommate has guns. The days are kids said, yeah, my roommate has guns. He's got the .22 caliber pistol. He's got a derringer. He's got a switchblade. All this shit. He said, I never, they said, have you ever seen him do anything inappropriate with these guns? And he said, I never saw Steve act inappropriately with guns. These are, there are some people who play with guns inappropriately and don't handle them safely. I never saw Steve do that, nor did I ever see him carry a gun except when we were going to hunt. Oh, he just kept it in the room. Yeah. Just keeps him there. Also, Stephen Downs is not five foot eight in dark complex. That he's six foot tall and really pale. You'd notice that guy. So it doesn't fit that description at all. And that guy would stand the fuck out. He would exactly. So Stephen Downs says, I don't know anything basically. He said, I just spent the night with my girlfriend. He said, but one thing I've heard, if you know, can help out at all. He said, there are GIs from Fort Wayne Wright. So army guys who hassle the girls in the dorm sometimes. They go out looking for college chicks and they'll break balls and, you know, they are a little bit. And so that's what he said. He said, I don't know. I'd look at Fort Wayne Wright. He said, sometimes the soldiers will come and come to the dorms and like, go around, try to go to parties and call and look for girls. Yeah. So they said the lead investigator said, there's a footnote in my notes that said something about GIs hassling girls. I noted in my notes that they were some, there was some comment that maybe there were GIs here that weekend. Oh, okay. Now there's another guy that we're going to call Williamson for now. Williamson knew Sophie had hung out with her the night before her death that sat Sunday night. And everybody said he was kind of infatuated with Sophie, really liked her. Williamson to talk about. Yeah. Investigators at this time describe a quote small shrine to her in his dorm room. What the fuck? She doesn't even go there anymore. That's weird. He also has zero alibi for the night of this murder. And when invest investigators question him, his very first words are, first of all, I didn't do it. Which is not great. At one point they consider him the prime suspect. They interview him like five, six times. He told them he had dropped a gift off for Sophie that night in Shirley's dorm room. And Shirley said, I don't remember that happening at all. So he's lying. Put himself there. Put himself there, has no alibi, has a small shrine and lied about where he was around that. The shrine is real important. That's real weird. So over the next couple of days, the kids freaked out. By the next morning, basically half the female students moved out. Yeah. Not safe. You too. Yeah. Not safe at all. That the way they're thinking about it. Um, Shirley, her roommate, by the way, at the memorial said, it's important to know how much Sophie enjoyed life. Don't be bitter. We should continue to pray for the person who took Sophie away from us. Yeah. Which is pretty goddamn nice. Yeah. If you want to be all Christian-y, that's the way you do it, by the way. That's how it's supposed to be done. So the next fall they beat up security. You had to have a card to get in, like a, you know, a card to buzz you in. They added cameras. They changed all the security the next year. So the investigation goes on here and they interview some over 500 people in this investigation. They tried to talk to every resident of Bartlett Hall, every guest. They focus on the second floor. They focus also on the male residents of the building. The lieutenant here said later on, it's been one of the larger mysteries. This is a true who done it. Hate that. That's rough. Now the leads, who do they have? Well, they have Kenneth Modo, remember him, the guy who fits the description. The female student saw guy who fits his description perfectly, leaving the second floor east bathroom in the early morning hours of April 26th. Leaving the bathroom early. That bathroom. That's not good. She described him as five foot eight, white, but dark, complexed with black hair wearing a gray shirt, which is exactly the description of the other, but the other person got. So they interview him. The day he was interviewed, he was still wearing a gray shirt and he matched all the description, but he said he didn't do it. So they really didn't have any evidence. Now they never find a murder weapon. They never find a knife that matches up. They never find the 22 that matches up to this. Or the stun gun. Or the stun gun. The forensics here, they made dozens of slides from the autopsy and they found sperm on three of the slides from the swabs. The case goes cold. Despite having all these leads, a guy, the same description, leaving all this cold case. Okay. Nothing happens. They put up a reward for $20,000. Nobody claims it. Nothing happens. So Sophie's mother, Elena, files a $4 million wrongful death lawsuit against the University of Alaska in 1995. It alleges that the university's lax dorm security allowed her daughter to be killed. The state would settle that lawsuit. But they say that the civil suit forced the Alaska state troopers to release all the information about the ongoing case, which basically said now the whoever did it can find out exactly what the police know at that point. So that's not a good deal. Now, 1996, the lead investigator flies to another place, Cotsbue. And interviewed Kenneth Motow again. Motow agrees to provide a DNA sample. This is 96. He gave them the swab and he said, quote, I volunteered because I want to help in any way I can. Because if she's native, we can't have that happening to native people. As Kenneth said, because he's in the same guy, same deal. So 1999 comes around. God dang. The person who did the forensics on it did the slides and the samples and all that. At a colleague's suggestion said, why don't you go back and look through it again? You don't have fresh eyes. You don't know. You know what I mean? So she looked and she found sperm on more slides. God dang. And she looked closer. Yeah, she said sometimes when you look harder, you find things you missed the first time. Yeah. Which is true. They also test Motow's DNA and he has found the semen does not match her. Doesn't match anything? Doesn't match Kenneth Motow at all. The guy who fits the description. Plus you think that if you just leave in the bathroom after that shit, you're going to have some blood on you. It'll be obvious. Something you would imagine. They test 15 other men's DNA. 15 of them. None of the matches. Nothing. 2000, year 2000, the Alaska crime lab now has a full DNA profile from the semen recovered from the body. They run it through CODIS though. It doesn't match anybody. Nothing. It's nobody they have on file yet. The guy that did this shit isn't even in CODIS. Isn't that crazy? It's no other crimes. Nothing. Horrifying. So 2003, here is a quote from the Alaska assistant attorney general. He says, as the years went by, additional suspects were explored and DNA samples were collected, but all the potential suspects were eliminated as the source of the unidentified DNA. By the end of 2003, the investigation had gone dormant. Damn it. 2007, Alaska state troopers reopened the cold case. And an outside. So almost 15 years later. Yeah. So yeah. Now the Alaska, from this outside forensic examiners that they hired to bring in, conclude that the second floor bathtub was probably not the murder scene. Probably. Right. The probably brought her there, put her in, turned the water on to wash his, what he thought was wash his, whatever he had away, didn't know about sperm and DNA. It gets up inside, you know, that kind of thing. So, but they fear eyes. She was killed somewhere else and moved to the tub. They go through all the files. They re-interview every witness that's still alive. They track people down in, you know, 3000, 5000 miles away and. Sure. 2009. Unbelievable. Still out there. In an interview about the case, the lead investigator, Jim McCann, who's been on it since the beginning, said he believed the killer had hated women and that Sophie had just been a target of opportunity. Okay. And they get a forensic psychologist also who says that whoever did this had done it before and probably did it again afterwards. Have to. Have to. This is not something you do once and walk away. Right. 2010, two cold case investigators go to Oregon to interview Nicholas Dazer again. Remember him? Right. Steven Downs was his roommate, the guy with the guns. Dazer was a security guard at the time. Security guard, yeah. At this time, when they interview him in 2010, he's an attorney. No. They ask him about Steven Downs again. They ask him about his guns and he said, yes, he had a 22 in the dorm, a derringer and a switchblade on the nightstand. They asked him if Dazer had ever owned a gun himself and he said, no, not at the dorm. They asked him about a separate incident in his security guard career. He'd been fired from the job. Oh. At UAF for keeping a firearm in his dorm room. What about that? He said, well, the gun in question wasn't a 22. He said the gun, the 22 in their dorm room was Steve's gun, not mine. But he had another gun and he just lied about it, which is not great. I guess they asked him if he had a 22. So they said, based on that, they can't identify either Dazer or Downs as a concrete suspect or subject or anything else. 2015 and this is a furiating. Fucking believable. Not only has it been over 20 years, the Alaska state legislature facing budget cuts. Now, when there's budget cuts, you have to prioritize. They decide to shut down the Alaska state troopers cold case unit. Yeah, you got to start at the crime lab, James. That's where the expensive shit's at. Let people get away with murder. That's really what you should do. Sell the microscopes. We got budget cuts. Yeah. The unit had been working on more than a hundred unsolved cases at the time. One of which is Sophie's, which is crazy. Sophie's at this point, her file is 14 volumes of notebooks and three or four boxes of reference material. That's so much. It's so much. So, and they said now whoever comes in, if someone ever reinvestigates this, they're going to have to start from the bottom of that box and work their way out of it to figure this out. So, this is fucking terrible. He told the, one of the cops told the press at the time that Sophie's case was in one of the biggest mysteries the unit had ever encountered. 2008, or 18, I'm sorry, 18. An investigative genealogist named CeCe Moore in California and a Virginia-based DNA company named Parabon Nano Labs. That, they're the ones who cracked the Golden State Killer case. That's when that happened. This is when DNA and finding DNA through, like, you know, DNA databases and ancestry and all that became a thing. This wasn't just run it through CODIS and see if it matches. All these people that did that shit had no idea that they were going. They identified him based on the taking that profile to a public consumer genealogy database named GEDmatch, which any science thing, I don't want the words GED in there. I have a GED. I don't know anything about science. Don't, don't do that. Yeah, don't do it at that level. Yeah. This is a site where you basically upload your own DNA in hope of finding lost relatives. That's what the point is. And what they end up finding is distant cousins of whoever this murderer was. Distant cousins of this murderer tried to find their family. Absolutely. So in 2018, there's a new investigator named Randy McFerrin of the state troopers. He's been working cold cases a long time. He had a sealed sample of semen from Sophie's body. Say that 12 times fast. Never mind she sell seashells. How about he has sealed samples of semen from Sophie's body. That's much harder. Sealed samples of semen from Sophie's body. Sealed samples of semen from Sophie's body. Kids, try that and it'll help you out. Sealed and delivered. It's very nice. And he had a full DNA profile with no match. Now he sent this sample to the Parabon nanolabs in Virginia and asked him to run it against GED match and he waited. Because that's how they found the golden state killer was through the cousins. On April, our December 18th, 2018, the forensic genealogist filed a report. The DNA from that, from Sophie's body shared 23% of its profile with a woman who had voluntarily uploaded her own DNA to GED match as a hobby just to find the... That is real close. That's 23% a good chunk. Oh boy, that's a... She shares a fourth of her DNA with a murderer. So yeah, they said the match was strong enough and is roughly the genetic distance of an aunt or a grandparent. So in a main family, this isn't a fourth cousin or anything. Yeah, she's had a piece of a turkey with this person. Yeah, so they said the genealogist then could build out a family tree from this. The woman lived in Maine. The family tree shows she's the aunt of Stephen Harris Downs. Remember him? He'd been a freshman. We know who he is. They interviewed him. So they were like, who? And they went back through the files and they're like, oh yeah, we interviewed him. He was interviewed... He spent the night with his girlfriend in an outing. He was only interviewed once that night in his dorm room and he's the guy who said maybe the GIs from Fort Wayne Wright. So they're like, fuck, what do we do now? They said through the process of elimination, the lab determined that the known relative to the DNA profile only had one possible second degree relationship, her nephew, Stephen H. Downs. Downs has no previous arrests at all. None. His DNA has never been uploaded to the national database. They said so. The sample had never been compared to his. So what has he been doing? Where's he been? If he's the murderer. Well, he finished his freshman year. That went home a week after the murder, went to Maine, came back in the fall, moved in with his girlfriend in a cabin off campus, stayed close with Nicholas Dazer, would target, shoot and hunt and then he graduated. In 1998, he was Groomsman at Nicholas Dazer's wedding in Portland, Oregon, his roommate. So there's that. He went on to graduate for, he went on for a graduate degree in nursing, returned to Maine in 2003 to live there permanently, started working as a registered nurse, first licensed in July, 2011, according to the nursing board records. He took it a job. He took a job. He took it a job. Took it a job. Hey, it's a took it a job. He took a job at a place called Harris House in Livermore Falls, Maine, which is a 12 bed intermediate care facility for adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities, which is normally people that work there. He goes, Jesus, you got to be an angel to work there. You know, has anybody there died questionable? He took care of vulnerable people. That was his job. Wow. He's fired in 2011. For a totality or 2016 for a totality of substandard performance, including multiple medication errors, he documented doses he hadn't actually given, which means he was probably selling them. Taking it. Yeah. He poured medications into unlabeled cups. He gave a pill to a patient too early. Two female coworkers two months apart filed formal complaints saying that Stephen Downs had made comments to them on the job that made them uncomfortable. After the first complaint, he apologized. After the second, he denied it. A certified nursing assistant who worked under him at Harris House named Kelly Ellingwood also said that she, uh, that Downs would sometimes hit on the younger CNAs. Yeah. She said, she remembered a quote I always felt uncomfortable having to go with him, go to him for things and being around him. In 2017, he consigned, he signed a consent agreement with the main board of nursing. He took a course called professional boundaries and nursing and kept his license. He took a new job at the Marshwood Center, uh, worked there from 2017 to 18 where the complaints continued to mount. This is a man in his 40s who needs a professional boundaries class. Yeah, class. Oh, I shouldn't. So I shouldn't do that to 20 year olds who just started working under me. They also said that, uh, somebody in 2009 filed an incident report against him. Also, the report described an incident in which Downs had hurt a female resident while treating her wound and made condescending comments to her. The resident said that afterwards she was afraid to report him because she didn't think anyone would believe her. Right. She said, I believe it's also important to mention I've never seen or heard him treat males this way. Only females he has power over. Another resident there said that, um, basically they asked for another nurse to be in the room when Stephen was around treating. Oh. They said that, um, she was scared of him and that this resident said that, uh, that basically Downs said, no one will believe you over me. Uh-huh. I don't think. Okay. And another resident said, I didn't like even being in the same room as him because I felt weird being around him. By the way, in 2015, he bought an H&R 22 caliber revolver from a private seller in me. Uh-huh. Same gun as the one he had before. Yeah. Okay. February 2019, the investigators fly to Maine. They meet with the Maine state police unsolved homicide unit and the lead detective, there's a guy named Jay Pelletier, which I believe we've talked about him before on a main case. Pelletier, it's, I know that name. It sounds familiar. Yeah. I know that name. Um, they coordinated with the Auburn city police. They get a warrant to surveil Stephen Downs's house. Okay. They go through his garbage. They're trying to pick out anything that has a DNA on it. Yeah. They get not enough that he, that the murderer shares a quarter of that lady's DNA. They need a full say. No, it's not enough because it could be, you know what I mean? So it's not in court. You can't go in and go, we're 23% sure it's him. That doesn't work for a murder case. You know what I mean? But I mean, can you, can you go to court and be like, we're 23% sure? No. Can we go search? Well, that's, that's what they did. They got a warrant. They said we have 23% sure. To surveil though, not to search yet. No, just to, to, to surveil him to get some shit out of his garbage can. That's what they're trying. They're searching through his garbage can trying to get anything. So that's why, how they got that warrant. So the garbage gets, has no usable sample. Wow. They can't find anything. They sit there for like weeks trying to get something. They get nothing. So February 13th, 2019, they just go knock on his door. Hi. Yeah. So they said, quote, he just kind of led us into the dining room. They sat down in the dining room. He sat with them. He talked, they recorded the interview. They said, they asked him what he remembered about the night that Sophie was killed. And he told them the same thing that he said in 1993. He said he didn't know her, never spoke to where he was with his girlfriend. That's that. He said, quote, if we would have known anything from the jump, you know, we would have, we would have spoken up me and Nick, meaning him as roommate. So then the other investigator says, we took the DNA sample that was found inside her body in her vagina. They were able to develop a full profile from the sample. It came down to you. You're the source of the DNA. It's you, Steve. And that's why we're here. And he said, quote, there's no way that could be possible. Okay. So they asked him, okay, drive yourself down to the police department. You're going to give us a DNA sample and a fingerprint. And he said, sure, you drove down there, gave them samples, maintained his innocence. He said, it has to be a mistake. It has to be a lab error. There has to be something because it's not me. I don't know that girl. So they run it through within 24 hours. They say it's his DNA. And he's arrested without incident outside the fire side in on Washington Street in Auburn, Maine. He fights extradition, but that's not going to go very well for him. Now they say, was that psychologist right? Does he have a trail of bodies behind him? No, they say as investigating him as far as anybody's ever been able to prove or even suspect, he never raped or murdered another person. He's just a kind of a random dickhead. You know how odd it is for someone to do this once. And that well? To a random person. Yeah. And had he known that DNA existed as well as it did, he would have done something to not have that left behind. You would think, well, I think he tried to wash it away. I mean, my point is he would have worn a condom or something. Something, yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, that would be even sicker if he had a plan that much to where he could. Right. You know, that's even crazier. So he's charged with first degree murder and first degree sexual assault. And that's how it goes. As lawyer says in his initial appearance, there must be some kind of mistake. What? Yeah. Now the defense attorney here, they want to present alternate suspects. So there's a few that they're going to have here. They said this is not a case of the defense coming forward with a witness years later, saying they had evidence that Stephen Downs didn't commit the crime. Just about every piece of information that I intend to convey to you comes from the 8,000 plus pages and over 100 audio files that have been presented by the state. They're saying this is the state's people. So they want to do Kenneth Motow. He fits the description, Gregory Thornton and also Williamson. And also Nicholas Dazer, the roommate as well. He had access to a gun. Why not? Close to the guy with the shrine. Yeah. Well, the security guards, the guy you look at also first, because I never trust those guys. So the Williamson guy, by the way, had an alibi. Really? And also they said later on that the shrine that he had and the strange behavior were more of a rumor than fact. He was just kind of a weird guy. They said Williamson had been cleared. And so the defense, you know, whatever. So Gregory Thornton, he owned a .22 caliber pistol. Now Thornton was suicidal at the time and was living inappropriately with another student in the dorm. I don't know what these fucking some brought. They later got a warrant for his DNA. It doesn't match. He was scientifically excluded. Kenneth Motow, same deal. Now the problem with Kenneth Motow is his sister said that Kenneth told her that he killed Sophie. Why would he say that? He said he told her he'd killed her because in his words, she wouldn't shut her mouth. But the semen's not his. That's a problem. Now his sister, by the way, dies before trial. So she's not able to testify to what she saw. It's a five week trial, 45 witnesses, a lot of shit. They go through the DNA, which is the main thing. They do a cross on the DNA lady pushing the idea that maybe it was mishandled or contaminated or changed in the lab. You know, she said it's DNA. It's what it is. I don't know. Other witnesses here, they said they talk about the two young ladies who were in the bathroom. Her roommate talks about passing the guy in the hallway. She identified that man as Stephen Downs that she passed in the hallway. Even though she gave a description of a completely different guy. Also multiple other witnesses here. Nicholas Dazer is brought in and they say that they weren't allowed to bring up his firing in front of the jury because there's no direct link to the crime, even though there's a gun involved in the firing. Now, so the cross on Dazer, they said, do you remember Mr. Downs' behavior at the time of the murder as being unusual? And he says, absolutely not. He said he was fine, nothing at all. He said that he could never in a million years fathom that Steve could have done something like this. That's what he said. Sure. They bring his old girlfriend in and she says, in my fun fuzzy 30 year old memories, he had this little 22 pistol that he wanted to go out in the woods and target shoot. So I went with him. It looked old. It was a handgun. I believe a revolver. It was kind of old and beat up. She said, but nothing that she could remember would link him to the murder at all. She said he was honestly, even though he broke up, he was a nice kid. He was nice to me. He was nice to my friends. No red flags. He was a good guy. So I don't get it. So there's that. The troopers they bring in all the cops that investigated. And they said, did you ever did that? They said, was it a trick to see how Moto reacted to say that someone saw him coming out of the bathroom? And then investigator said, I would say, well, it's something I would also use as a way to see what effect would be how he's going to react to that. But he said it was also true. They bring in, they bring in Moto. Yeah. And they say, do you remember telling your sister at any point you killed Sophie? And he said, I remember we were watching TV, something on cold cases in Alaska was some kind of show on TV. I told her I was a suspect in Sophie's. I was a suspect in that one at UAF. Big difference between I killed her and I was a suspect. Yeah. Now the state's closing says he likes 22 caliber revolvers. His fucking DNA matches. It's one in one in 330 billion matched to the DNA. I mean, he definitely is inside her. Yeah. They're like, unless somebody else, he raped her than someone else killed her, but he at least raped her. We're thinking here. So in the closing arguments, they said the defense says DNA does not equal murder. Even if he had sexual contact with her at some point that night, which he denies, it doesn't prove he killed her. They said the male pubic hairs from a Caucasian person other than Steven down were collected at the scene. They were never tested for DNA. But it's a lot. It's not going to happen to anybody. It's exactly right. There's a saliva sample at the scene. The murder weapon's never been found. He said he's a normal kid this Steve. He wasn't this kind of guy. He's a nurse. He takes care of people. So the verdict comes in here. This is 20 hours of deliberation over four days. Quite a bit. That is a lot. They find him. What do you think is going to happen here? That's guilty. That's DNA, man. Guilty of first degree murder. Yeah. First degree sexual assault as well. Yeah. The. He denies that he ever was in. Contact with her. That's it. If he said, yeah, I had a little affair with that girl. I don't want my girlfriend to know about that would have been different. Sophie's brother, Alex said with the DNA, I'm pretty sure it's the right guy. Nowadays, DNA won't lie to you. So in sentencing, the prosecution asks for 99 years with 20 suspended. So a hard 79 years, they said. Then they asked for an eight year mandatory sentence on the sexual assault to run consecutively for a total of 87 years. In Alaska, the defense asked for 50 years suspended to 30 with the sexual assault count running concurrently. He said that the lower number would allow Mr. Downs to hug his parents again in his lifetime. Steven declines to make a statement at sentencing. The judge says Mr. Downs's life goal, according to his legal counsel, is to hope to one day hug his parents again. Since April of 93, Miss Surgey hasn't been able to hug anyone. No one's been able to hug her. No one will ever hug her again. That's a tremendous impact. There's really no higher impact than raping and murdering someone. That's plain English, I would say. You sir may fuck off. Sentences him to 67 years in prison for the murder and eight years for the sexual assault to run consecutively for 75 years in total. He would be eligible for discretionary parole after 25 years around the age of 73. Eesh. So yeah, he appeals for a warrantless search of Steven Downs's family DNA on a match and all that kind of shit. It's all tic-y-tac shit. Forget me on DNA. Yeah, so that is actually going through the courts yet. It's been two years, but they have not rendered a decision yet. So we're waiting on that. I think it's going to be affirmed. I think he's in trouble, man. And that is Fairbanks, Alaska, and a crazy goddamn story, I would say. It's unbelievable what that shit has done to change the course of investigations. Oh, it's out of it. Without DNA, you're in so much trouble. There was nothing, you can't solve anything. Unless somebody saw them there or their fingerprints are on something, you're fucked. So now with touch DNA, can you investigate and just hand them something and take it back and some things? Yeah, they can get that off of to get a really good sample. They still want like get them after like a pickleball match or something. Rex Eurman, pizza crust bite or some shit. 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