S1E6: HDP

Welcome to Pluribus, the official podcast, an intimate insider conversation about the making of the Apple TV series, with the casting creators behind the show. My name is Chris McKayleb, I'm one of the editors of Pluribus, and the host of this podcast. This is not a recap show, it's more of a wide-ranging roundtable discussion about the making of each episode, so if you haven't watched this week's episode yet, I definitely recommend listening because we'll be talking openly about the plot, how we made it everything. This podcast is about episode 106 entitled HDP, written by Vera Blasi, and directed by Gonjumontero. In this episode, Carol records evidence of her discovery, then worried that the others won't distribute her findings, rushes to hand deliver a tape to Mr. Diabate, who is having the time of his life in Las Vegas. I really love this episode, and this was a fun conversation. So without further ado, let's welcome to the podcast, executive producer and creator, Vince Gilligan, right of this episode, Vera Blasi. Hello. The director of this episode, Gonjumontero, and Mr. Diabate himself, Samba Shoot. Bienvenue. And on the ones and twos, the wheels of steel, Nicholas Sy. Hello. Nicholas. Well, let's get into this episode HDP, huh? That what's really going on? Maybe think, is that what we've been eating for lunch here at the office? Oh, well, you know, because I don't know that I gave consent for any of that. So much going on in this episode. Let's start with Gonjumontero and Vera, like you're coming into this kind of group of people who've been kind of doing this better called Saul style. Talk about coming in, writing the script, getting into the script, how you approach it. Well, it was a dream come true. For sure, it was my first television episode. So I was a little bit nervous at first, but I got in the groove and Vince was so generous and so helpful. Everybody was. It's really teamwork. I think that that was one of the most comforting things about the experience was how everybody cared about everybody. And we were happy, like, Fluribus happy. That's right. We are very happy people. That's true. I have known you for years. I was so glad to get to work with you because I had known Vera for years, our mutual friend Mark Johnson, who was the guy that kind of discovered me way back in, you know, October in 1989 at the Virginia Film Festival when he was the judge of a contest. I was one of the winners and he is an excellent producer and he knows talent when he sees it. I'm not speaking about myself. I'm speaking about Vera because he gave me your script. It's a stranger in a strange land kind of, his I recall kind of story or a conscious pilot, Moose to Judea. He's basically posted there by the Roman Emperor, the Roman government. And he feels like he's a fish out of water. He's, you know, there's a certain amount of sympathy for the devil. So to speak. And it's just really stuck with me at some smart producer is going to actually make this thing at some point. Well, you know, after being here with you, I believe miracles can happen. So Vince was so kind to read it and we met and we've been meeting sort of like at parties or or events. And then after the pandemic, I came back to LA because I spent the pandemic with my parents in the Bay Area. So I came back to LA and I thought, oh my gosh, what happens now? I was so cut off from everything and you invited me to lunch and I thought, oh, this would be great. I'm going to catch up with Vince. And then he said, do you want to come and write a new show? And I was like, oh my God. Is this possible? That's why you come back? I come back from a pandemic to a city that has become a little bit strange and you want to get your bearings. And now suddenly you have the best job in the world. You fit right in. You did a wonderful job. And Gansha, how about you? How did you come into this whole situation? I was working on a pretty tough job filming in LA and I received a message saying that the Vince Gilligan team was interested in meeting and I met with Jen, Trina, Diane and it was a great conversation. I didn't have a script obviously. It was all very, I think it was more of a vibe check. I think. And I guess I passed the vibe check. And I think that it was the first experience where I felt like this is how filmmaking should be, how TV making should be. I think that in the TV space, sometimes it's so fast paced and as a director you don't get to hire your own crew, but not always are you coming into a place that is truly collaborative where the intention is very much the same. I mean, everyone's trying to make the same thing. Sometimes it feels like I'm making one show. The DP is making another and the showrunners making yet another. I think because Vince and the whole team have been together for 13 years or so. Okay. Should we go on 20? Going on some of the folks. Yeah. So 20 years or so. And I think because of that, it puts everyone in the same frequency. Right. And that is exactly what you need in order to bring out the creative juices. And I always say that things either expand you or contract you and the Vince world definitely opens you up so that you can do the best version of the thing that's already been written. You know, I think it's our job as directors to come in and elevate and make this incredible script. That's already super strong, you know, and it really does pop off the page, but making it even more real authentic. And in this case, making it the most visceral and realistic and humanistic, I think that it can be because it is a pretty wild story. Right. It seems like it would be an even bigger challenge for you coming in on episode six when, you know, the machine is already kind of in motion and things are the stories are being told. I mean, were you given the scripts a media of the other episodes? You had to kind of catch up and oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what's interesting coming in mid season is that because I've often come in early in the season or finishing it out. So then there are more episodes to watch. And coming in mid season, I was able to watch the pilot, which was really helpful. But this is like right before I started production. So I was able to get a true sense of what the visual style with the tone because the tone, it's so specific and so unique and so fresh. I think that's the thing is that the show is ultra fresh. There are no comps for it. Yeah. It's almost impossible to say, oh, it's this meets that, you know, which is a classic Hollywood thing. The way to describe new projects or ideas. And so yeah, I think that having had the scripts, obviously Vera, who not only is an incredible writer, but is also Brazilian. Yeah. Well, I was in poor, I wasn't born there, but my DNA is 100% Brazilian. And her Portuguese is 100% Brazilian too. Oh, yeah. I worked hard on it. But she obviously had been in the room. So I think that also helps to give you a very smooth bridge into what was planned, you know, what the thought process behind everything. Because that's what you really want to understand, you know, it's not just what's on the page, but what's what is a subtext? What are the interior innermost thoughts that then led to this? And same goes for the characters, the words that are coming out of their mouths are often not exactly what they're thinking you're feeling. Right. Is that true, Samba? Are the words coming out of Mr. Diabáte's mouth, the words of Samba shoot? Well, it's really interesting. Because when I first got this audition, I had just become a dad and I was getting two hours of sleep a day. And a month later, I get an audition for an untitled Vince Gilligan project. And I think I'm in a fever dream. But I see the name was, it was dummy sides. I realized at this time and the name of the character was Mr. Kumba. And that's a very more titanium name. And so I thought, oh my god, this is a more titanium character. Vince wrote a more titanium character. So I immediately understood the words he was saying. And it felt like it was something really close to home. And that made it easier to get into this guy's skin. Little did I know that when I did my first audition, I played him very smooth macho and everything. And I did that at the callback when I got a callback five months later. Was there that much later? It was that much later. Oh my god. So I didn't know that. Oh yeah, no, I thought I'd lost the job, Vince. I was like, oh, no, no, no. It was five months after I did the self-tape. So I was like, oh, that job's gone, unfortunately. But then I got a callback five months later with Sharon and Russell, our casting directors. And they made me do the same thing I did in my first self-tape rather, you know, was playing him smooth and everything. And then they told me to forget everything I did and play him more nerdy and awkward, which is closer to who I am as a person. So that made it even closer to my skin. So yeah. And then they said about me that I look at Mr. G. Abate and it's like, this guy says very about his cool as they get. I know. I see him as pretty the way you play. I mean, like you described him even nerdy or is that what it is? I think we might be. No, the way Vince described it when I finally spoke to Vince once I found out I booked it was I said, is there any malice in this guy? Is there any kind of hidden agenda? And Vince said he is a straight shooter. He is sincere. He is just living his best life all of a sudden. He is a kid in a candy store. And I connected with that immediately because I like candy. But I thought, okay, no, it's that excitement. It's that enjoyment of life in his eyes that now he has the opportunity to be the best version of himself. And so that's the nerdy side for me because someone who enjoys now flying on an airplane with supermodels and living his best life in a Vegas suite is someone who didn't have that before. And so now he gets to live out these fantasies that could be seen as sleaze or whatever but for him it's role playing. It's like playing a role. So like going to a Comic Con. Sure. He's wearing a costume. I mean, and everybody's cosplaying in that poker sequence. Yeah. Yeah. He's just living out of fantasy. Yeah. Which I think we talked about that on the first episode. And I think we didn't really want to get into Mr. Diabate. But you were talking about the conception of the show and an early, early idea was this guy who and how great it was that he could just do whatever he wanted. I don't know how you feel about that Vince, but it feels to me that's the DNA of that character, the person who does have it all and does whatever they want is definitely infused into Mr. Diabate, especially as you're playing him. Exactly. The original original idea going back to walks I would take around this very building, recording in when we were doing a better call saw we take these lunches and I'd walk around and I'd think about the beginnings of this what became this TV show. And this was going back almost 10 years. And I would I'd think about a character and he was a male character originally who everyone is inexplicably nice to and they'd been over backwards. They do anything for him. And that's really is that character that evolved into Mr. Diabate because I was thinking about it and thinking about it. But then I thought a guy who really enjoys this, you can't really build a drama around someone who's happy. It just you can't really build a drama around happiness or can you well, maybe if the main character is miserable. And then at about the same time I was thinking I love Ray C. Warren. I should make something for her. Why can't it be this thing? Why can't it be the main character be a woman? And it took years to figure all this stuff out. But Mr. Diabate, I got to say this was one of the hardest roles to cast. Really? Absolutely. Maybe that's why it took five months. It took months and months and months. We saw a lot of actors from all over the world. We saw a lot of self tapes. We saw a lot of really talented actors. But to a man and then obviously they're all men. No one else had the innocence. You had everyone else played it some sleazeier than others. There was always a certain element of sleaze. There was a certain element of, well, it's not that they were sleazy guys, but it was a certain element of, okay, this is kind of unsamely. But somehow the innocence you infuse your Mr. Diabate with is, I don't know how you do it because clearly Mr. Diabate loves the ladies. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how you pull it off. You make this guy so likable. I don't know. I don't know how you do it. I feel like saying that and I can't believe that you saw so many people and I'm honored. Of course, I got this part because it's a dream come true like Varys says. I think I've just never been surrounded by supermodels and so I get giddy naturally. But I think there's a naivete, even though there is maybe an element of desire or sleaze in your eyes naturally. And there is a certain joy to be, and I think is really key. And I think it's people as they get older tend to harden up. And I think it's that thing of that survival instinct or that need to be safe or to self-protect. And I think you don't have that as an actor as a person. And that's what the camera captures. It's the rawness of that moment. And I think that the moment that an actor tries to put a mask on and that mask doesn't fit, it feels an authentic. And that's the reason why we're able to like you while also maybe criticizing you. Right. It's a thin line to walk. Because you can easily be sleazy or creepy. But it's that chat I had with you that have really helped just knowing that this guy doesn't have a bad bone in his body and is just really excited to be here in this new world and is embracing the change. And that he's just like that kid that's just living his best life and fantasy all of a sudden. He doesn't come from opulence and now he has it. So they've it up. He enjoys himself. Yeah, he enjoys it without any guilt. And I think that's an important quality and why we like him so much because you're so free. You have an immense capacity to be happy. And you don't feel guilty about it. Why? You know, why should you? So for a couple of Catholics here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just what is that like? I don't even guilt. Tell me about that. Can we talk about shooting in Las Vegas? Oh, God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Shooting during like a record summer heat wave. I know that one of those days was 120 degrees. And I know I've got here in the notes that on the second day it started with night exteriors. It was after midnight and it was already 103 degrees. Yeah. And the main challenge was that we had to depict an empty Vegas. Right. Las Vegas had to be devoid of humans. Right. So in terms of filming in Vegas, I'm sure everyone who's shot in Vegas has perhaps faced a challenge like this. And you can't really shut down a casino. No. And we didn't just need empty casino, which we were able to cordon off a section and be really nice to the security who are helping us. But we also needed to shoot exteriors of empty Vegas. And that is the actual challenge because Vegas is pretty busy 24 seven. And so I mean, we can get. Yeah. How did you accomplish that? And as a director, like you see that in the script, what are your first thoughts as far as how are we going to accomplish this? How am I going to shoot this? Well, the funny thing is that I got to Albuquerque and I didn't have much information. And I was just wondering how are we going to pull off Vegas in Albuquerque? Because that's something that we do in Hollywood all the time. Sure. You know, I've shot LA and Vancouver, you know, you name it, shot Vermont and Romania. So, but. Wow. That sounds like a good one. Yeah. That was definitely challenging. That's actually when you start thinking about architecture and what is quintessentially America, USA and what's not. So the main challenge was how do we shoot these streets? You know, how do we get empty streets? Because she arrives and we need to see the arrival and understand and contextualize it geographically in Vegas. Right. So we ran a rate plates. How do you describe a rate plate? Three sixty. Yeah. Like cameras, multiple cameras. Like nine or 12, I think it is. And they take close to a 360 degree image of what they're seeing. And so you can use those to then put on screens or replace blue screens. But the key thing for us is that we needed to stitch. So we needed to run these array plates for as long as possible. And the exact path that Carol's car was the police car was going to be going. And then later with the help of our VFX team, stitch those images together. And so meaning that we need enough runs so that if there was a human in front of a McDonald's, then suddenly you need to make sure that you capture enough there so that when you do cut to that shot, there's no human in front of the McDonald's. And then because our very last day of shooting for this episode was Carol in the car. And so her arriving, seeing the Westgate sign, seeing all the messages to her and her reactions. So we needed those images on the video boards or the LED screens to then be able to have enough of a soft image in the background. So you do realistically believe that she's driving a car. So I mean, I think some of the most tense conversations we had were actually how do we get empty Vegas. And it was also and it's always a challenging thing to work with a local crew because we brought a lot of the New Mexico, the Albuquerque crew. But we also had to figure out how to make this work. And of course when you're shooting with picture vehicles, you also need police help. The Vegas police was actually very helpful in that sentence. They killed it. Yeah. And you know, we have certain shots that we need. Everything's been story boarded. But at the same time, you face these challenges because it is doing driving work. Any sort of car work is actually really slow. Yeah. You know, who else is great, the Westgate hotel. Big shout out to the Westgate. Oh my God, yes. That's really what is now known as the Westgate used to be the old international hotel. Right. And then the international Hilton. But that on the top floor of the old international, which is now the Westgate, was where Elvis Presley lived for years when he was doing his Vegas residency. So we really did shoot as Mr. Diabate described. We really did shoot in the area that used to be Elvis Presley's bedroom. His bedroom. That's right. It was they have redone those sweets up on the top floor since his time. They are much larger now than they were in Mr. Presley's time. But Gordon, this wonderful gentleman who was classiest guy, you catch a quick glimpse of him. He's in that beautiful shot you got introducing the hotel of the suite. Gordon Proudy. Yeah, he's the VP of public and community relations at the Westgate. Gordon's a great guy. And he is a really classy gentleman who looks like he just, and the best way, not now, it looks like he just stepped out of the movie because he is so, he is so stylish, always stylish, always dressed to the names and knows the history of the old international, now the Westgate inside and out and had all kinds of great Elvis stories. But he was explaining the area where the poker game takes place. That area was Elvis's, you're right, Elvis is a bedroom. Also apparently this hotel is haunted. Yes. So Mr. Diabate says it's haunted and that intrigues him. And actually we had a few crew members tell us that in the middle of the night their lights would flicker, TVs would switch on and showers would turn on. Oh my god. I don't know. Shows? Yeah. I don't care for that. I do, but yeah, apparently it was actually haunted. I don't know if it's by Elvis or just by, I don't know, disgruntled casino go. Well, we included an Elvis impersonator also in that first shot. Looks so good. Yeah. We're getting to that hotel and just, you know, it was surreal because I started filming with this episode for me and it was kind of weird to start with six, but it kind of, you shot six before you shot your introduction, too. That's right. So I was like, okay, let's get into the show and find out who this character is. But I show up to this Westgate, you know, I'm on a location for Vince Gilligan shows. I'm all nervous and I'm all like walking around the hotel trying to get a vibe of what it is. And a security guard runs up to me and goes, you're the guy. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, you're the guy. I'm like, oh, great. I'm about to get arrested. There's something. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, you're the guy. He's like, what? He's like, come with me. So we go outside to one of the entrances and a freaking huge poster of me in an Elvis suit. I'm like, oh, no, it's already up in there. Yeah, you're the guy. What are you doing? You're a magician? And I couldn't see I was on the show. I'm like, oh, no, please hide that. My introduction to you as Mr. Diavate was actually the photo shoot for this photo. We did a photo shoot a week before. And the paintings and all of the set design that we needed featuring you in your first day. So my first day was a day in Albuquerque where they dressed me up in all kinds of outfits and we did a photo shoot. And I was like, oh, it's just to introduce a character. And then they started saying that they're going to actually make live paintings of me that are going to be hung up in the suit. And then they turned these photos into actual posters that are all over the hotel. And Gonja was there. That's where I first met Gonja. And so we were trying to have fun with this character. And it's the most ridiculous costumes. And then they turned out to be amazing paintings, but huge, ridiculous paintings of me. And of course, everyone was like, are you going to take one home? I'm like, why? What am I going to do with this? Did you have any pushback from production? There's two, I think, super bold choices in this. One is having Carol actually shooting that teaser in selfie mode on a camcorder. And then also just that bravura shot leading into the poker game. What an awesome shot. So cool. Yeah. The winner. Talk about how you thought of both of those things and the unique challenges that maybe those present. Well, you wanted to be experiential, especially the opening, because episode five ends with her having gone in and seen something. Right. So we know that it has to feel extremely wrong, emotional for her. I wanted to do it as a POV or as the camera that she is holding. So there is that feeling of the experience itself. And also not a camera operator trying to mimic the thing that she's doing. I think that the authenticity of having Ray herself be holding that camera brings so much to it. Because then it's her, I think props are super important in filmmaking and storytelling in general. But then she is holding the camera and then she as an am… She's a professional in so many ways. But as an amateur cinematographer or a camera operator, that comes across even more. And then once I asked Vince and he said, yes, that's a good idea. Oh, yeah, I love it. I love it. Ray did a really… With your help, your direction, she did a really nice job because that is her shooting herself. Yeah. It's like a short film made by Ray C. Hartney. Yeah. Yeah. And it's wonderfully done. By the way, this is my Alfred Hitchcock cameo moment. I don't think I've ever been in an episode of Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul or El Camino nor was I ever in X-Files, I don't think. My brother was. But anyway, this was my cameo, the severed head that Carol holds up, that's me, that's my head. What? Yeah, like a mold of your head? It wasn't. In the old days, it would have been a mold and it was so amazingly painless because I've actually, in high school, I made a mold of my own head to make master masks out of it. My brother helped me do it except I used regular plaster of Paris that you get at the department store instead of the stuff you're supposed to use. I didn't realize that it heats up when it's saddened. Oh no. It was bad living dangerous. I was living it. But I, so I had that experience that I was second. Oh my gosh, if they're going to use my head, I don't want to go through that just for this funny bit of, you know, whatever. But Joe Ulebarry, this mad genius of a prop builder and sculptor and just a jack of all trades, really made it easy. He scanned my head with this crazy device, used a 3D scanner, a lidar scanner. And then he made this head out of a, I think he used a 3D printer or something like that. But it's, it's amazing. It's like, it took, it took all of 45 seconds for, you know, we're living in a stir-track times now. It took all of 45 seconds for him to walk around me three times, pointing this thing in my head. And then there's like this perfect likeness of my head. That's amazing. That's you. I hope you kept the head. Joe made me a really cool bust of myself that I have in my office. I love it. I love it so much. And yeah, the head is somewhere. We got a lot of body parts, a lot of styrofoam body parts. And we saved them up. And who knows? Maybe we'll do something fun with them related to the fans or something. And that was the other challenge too, is that the body parts, when they were shrink wrapped, they didn't necessarily, the first try. They didn't look like body parts. They kind of just look like chunky, blocky, white things. And so then between us, we figured out that if we inject some blood, fake blood into them, then at least that's right. The blood, the contrast of blood, plastic, and styrofoam would give us a little bit more of a sense, especially under low lighting circumstances, and her with that little camera and the directional light. That's so smart. And they'd even looked marbled like a good stage. Just like you want to say. But in terms of the intro to the party or the intro into Mr. Diabate's fantasy, we I think originally it was scripted as a party, a James Bond party. So that to me obviously inspired the 60s and 1960s. And then at some point, I thought, well, then it should be a 60s party for sure. And then at some point it was like, well, maybe it should be filled with impersonators. Like who would Mr. Diabate want there? Yeah, the cremdle of crem of Las Vegas, of course. We saw Elvis. I think there was a Bob Dylan. Audrey Hepburn. Audrey Hepburn. Yeah, John Byans. Angela Davis Bruce Lee. Oh my God. Oh God, right. That was a challenge. Yeah. Casting them was a challenge. And a huge shout out to Jennifer Bryan or our cross-hairs. The best. Yeah, this gave her the opportunity to dress a lot of people in incredible ways. Yeah. I mean, incredible. The first time, I think, Jen, Treen and I were all, I think, Vera was there too. When we first saw the truck loads of clothing arrive. Oh my God. Actually, no, it was already set up. It was set up like a showroom. And we walked on and it was just so incredible. And it's really interesting to think about texture and shapes and the way they interact with light. And this is getting nerdy. But sequins, there's a reason why sequins are part of that world and building those costumes and making sure that we were able to, in very, in like, seconds, really recognize these characters, understand that we're in an elevated reality and then land on Samba sitting there. It's just that. Cool. It's just, I kept telling you, Vince, like, what an introduction. This is how you introduce like a George Clooney, you know, you're in a brand-pid in a movie and then all of a sudden it's like, hi, it's me. It is a movie started in the end. What? And it's unbelievable because for a minute, you're like, what is this? Is this a flashback? Like is this before what is happening? And then just landing, like you said, that movie star shot on you. It's so dynamic. It's so exciting. It was so much fun. Browns us in the whole thing. Everyone was amazing. And the scene also playing out in the front. That's right. It's all in French. So we had to cast French speaking actors and that's a whole other challenge. Yeah. They have to be gorgeous to them. Yeah, and gorgeous. And they're the sweetest spot. They're sweetest spot you have. The first time I met them all was when we shot the hot dub scene. So that was not awkward at all. Oh my gosh. Was that the first time? That's the first time I met all our supermodels. Oh my gosh. It was like, hi, I'm so, hi, I'm so, so, okay, let's get naked in the hot dub. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that was so crazy. But everyone was super professional. Our intimacy coordinator, Christine was so sweet and guiding us and making sure we're all respectful. And it was so much more relaxing than I thought it was going to be. But that's where I met everybody. So after that, there were no more borders. Oh my gosh. I forgot it was done in that order. Wow. Boy, the thing I remember was how little time we had because you only had time for like one or two takes of that. It was, boy, you and you did a great job. Gotcha. Because I mean, you did a great job period. And your eye, you reminded me so much of another one of my favorite directors, Michelle McLaren. Okay. You pulled that right out. You're wonderful compositions, but you were so under the gun. Well, it was, it was so little time. I think it was a one or two. It was, it was a one or two. And so little time. But you guys were so relaxed, which I loved, you know, a gonja and just the, like, setting up what the shots about and then Vince having to explain to everybody kind of like what's happening because they had no idea what the show was about. And you still came up with a button for the end of that scene, Joette, when I tell you about it says, Joette and she didn't know what's up. That was your idea. That was you on the spot. Well, that was, and that's, and that's her real name. Yeah, yeah, because it would have been nice for you to have been able to have, you know, a little more time to get some coverage. It was like the scene, no coverage. Did you know playing in your prep for a scene like that? So you're, I'm hearing that you guys totally under the gun on schedule. Did you have other shots planned? And what's the key or how do you find yourself staying, as you just said, calm and focused and he didn't even realize that things were so tense? Yes, so yes. We did. We had all of the more complicated sequences. We had storyboarded. I think I was working with Mark Bristol storyboard artists. But the thing is, I think that storyboarding or shot listing, which I do a lot of, like there's not a single scene, I never go into a shoot without a shot list. I actually have nightmares about doing that. Me too. And I think that the main point of that is to actually break down what you need. And I also, I used to act and I used to edit. So those two things, the emotional and the technical come together in a really helpful way. I never thought that all those years of cutting some research documentaries and things would actually lead to me understanding what an edit requires. I can envision the blocks in my mind. Like I have a really good sense of what we need. But because you have a sense of what you need, you also understand what's superfluous or what might be just really nice to cut together. But for that sequence specifically, because I'd not only had storyboarded, but I'd also shown it to Vince and we'd gone through and said, you know what, we don't need this, we don't need that. So it'd been synthesized already. And then when we got to set, we didn't have time. We realized, well, you know what, if we do a wonder that begins tight on him and starts pulling out, then it becomes about the choreography or the dance of where each character is in space. And how do we also overcome the challenges of not really showing their bodies because there are restrictions there as well? That's the importance of having an intimacy coordinator. Sure. But in terms of staying calm, some of my best friends or actors and I come from a theater background and dance, I really care about protecting. I think that one of my jobs is to make sure that actors are at ease. They're not aware of the chaos that production is there's never a production without chaos or some form of a different iterations of it, of course. And so for me, it was about keeping all of them. There's already a sensitivity there because there's nudity, but also, and you guys meeting for the first time, you had, and also you starting the production. And so I always want to make sure that I can shield. It's almost like I come in with the shield that's blocking or the flag that's blocking their view of what's happening on the other side. Because we also were losing light and we didn't have the right, the exact crane we needed. That's what it was. We weren't going to get kicked out. It was that the light was changing out the window because that looked down into an atrium. That's way up on the 30 something, 40th floor, but it's an open air pool up on the very top floor of this skyscraper. Yeah. Well, you absolutely made us feel safe. Can we quickly talk about John Cena? Oh my God, that's right. This episode has it all, really. It's not a big about it. How did that happen? And is that was it always John Cena in the script? He just kept calling and calling and begging us. Began us to know he was, he's awesome. We thought it would be the most cool thing in the world to have, I mean, who do you have explain why the world is taken to cannibalism? Who better than Jesse? As in, as in who better a very friendly, likable fellow that everybody in the world knows who can very matter, faculty explain why human beings have resorted to cannibalism. I think, God, he said, yes, we went to Tampa, Florida. Remember that? And we'll talk about that. Oh, yeah. We went to Tampa, Florida on a Friday night to shoot on his day off. And he was such a pro because he had what three pages of dialogue of a monologue, three or four. It was a lot of words. There was a lot. Yeah. And he did an incredible job. I mean, basically one take wonder. Yeah, I think we could have used the first take. We figured we came all the way to Tampa, Florida, might as well, I haven't do it two more times, but it was, he was, he was a pro. He's a very pleasant, very professional. And I did, I do remember as he's leaving, he said, well, I can't wait to see this episode when it airs. So I know what the hell I was talking about. When we were filming that scene with Carol when she walks in and I show her the video of the John Cena explaining the HTTP. We didn't have John Cena do it when we were shooting that scene. It was actually Vince. And so it was super meta to do the scene with Ray, well, Vince is explaining cannibalism and why it's just a building up a carton of milk and it was all Vince. But Vince as Vince, right? As if it was like, hey, I personally think we should have kept me on that. But everyone said, no, John Cena. So I guess it okay, finally, I gave him. But by the way, as Gagin and Vera are making this saying, I'm sitting back behind him in my little chair and watching, having to watch me over and over again up there. I was like, there's a reason people pay extra for people like John Cena and Sam and Ray C. Orn. You did great. It was so fun. We didn't tell you guys though, right? We, I think we just played it for you. We just played it. And so me and Ray were like, giggling as we're trying to be serious listening to this end of the world scenario. Vince, explaining it, it is nice accent. So it was just funny. Yeah, you did a great job. Well as we wrap up, I just wanted to call out, there was just one shot that I remember, just an incredible shot of Mr. Diabate at the window. And then there's that rack through the champagne flute. And this is my show of a Clarence type stuff. Just really like incredible shot. Fantastic. And then we sort of leave this episode with Manusos embarking on a journey. Yeah. So the process of TV directing is that you finish your episode. First you receive your editors cut, which skip fantastic. I mean, I was like, well, I guess there's not much to do. That's good. Skip that a great job. Yeah. I mean, amazing. And so then you, you finish your directors cut and it gets handed over to the producers. And then sometimes you get a message and sometimes you don't get a message. In this case, I got an email from Vince, which with your permission, I might one day print very large and frame. But specifically because you mentioned Manusos, you talked about the personickity concept of what he's doing, going through every radio wave, trying to find some some sign of life. And that's something that I thought about a lot and try to figure out how do you visualize that without making it boring. And it's also the end. It's a completion of a process when you finally realize, all right, well, there's just one sound. I don't even know what that sounds actually like now. Because yeah, because as we're recording this, you know, we've been keeping these things so under wraps and you've been so busy, and every cotton of the world that sounds like, so yeah, you haven't heard this thing yet. It's really, it's an awesome sound effect that our sound team came up with. And I think actually, they, Porter, helped create it or created it. Yeah, they, Porter or composer created it. It's really cool. Yeah, you're going to like it. And Vesco is just so, I mean, his silent, brooding, action here of master, brutal. Yeah, and there's so much going on behind those eyes and maybe he whispers one word or something, but yeah, I was just really exciting to film the beginning of that journey. Yeah, it's really exciting and I'm excited for everybody to see what happens next week. But thank you all for coming in on a Sunday. We've been at this. The sun is going down right now. We're experiencing the sunset on the podcast recording as well. Yeah, thank you all for coming and thanks for listening everybody. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much. All right, thank you so much to Samba Shoot, Gondra Montero, Vera Blasi, and Vince Gilligan. And thank you for listening to Pluribus, the official podcast, an Apple TV podcast produced by hybrid productions and Sony Pictures Television. Be sure to follow on Apple podcasts to get the next episode in your feed, including those bonus episodes and watch Pluribus on Apple TV. We're available. Our editor and mixer is Nicholas Sy, The Music by Dave Porter. Associate producers are Alana Hoffman, Justin Verbeast, and Nicholas Sy. Executive producers are Jen Carroll and me, your host, Chris McKayla. Follow and listen on Apple podcasts.