What it Means to be an American

Hey guys, before we get into the episode, we just want to let you know that we were rehearsing or just over knowing. Okay, okay, gotcha. Hey guys, before we get into the episode, we just wanted to let you know that this podcast, before we get into the episode, before we get into today's episode, we just wanted to let you know that this one was recorded this one was recorded somewhere of 2025. And we're re-releasing it here. We're re-releasing it here. Enjoy. We're not. No, enjoy. Don't enjoy this. So how do you want to split it up? Oh man, that feels weird. You want to assign sentences? We could do like a talking heads kind of thing. Hey guys. Hey guys, this episode was released in. Hey guys, before we get, hey guys, before you get into the episode, then we just want to let you know that this podcast was recorded in somewhere of 2025. We're re-releasing it here. Fuck it, let's try it. This will be fun. Okay, you starting it? Hey guys. Look who's going to be able to take a bite of something. That was your own vlog. Here. We could. It's fine. Okay, where are we going to hang out? Where are we going to hang out? What? If we take turns doing this. No, no, no, it's going to sound so fucking weird and awkward and stilted. Give me just delete this video. No, because there's no way to delete it. It would sound like edited then, so it would just go from like, so here, it'll, it'll, we could probably just talk here. Okay. Let me like stand on this or something. Okay. You're saying I have a height advantage? No, you probably easier if I slouched. Oh yeah, how about this? That is a terrible solution to that problem. What? That is so impractical. That's better than. No, but this works right? I mean, not your taller than me and I'm maybe like insecure. No, I have a height advantage. Yeah. There's a tall woman around me. I'm feeling insecure right now, okay? We really want to wait for you. My power has been reduced. We really want to wait for you. Of course we're going to use this. No, this is all the, this is the intro. No. This has to stay in. Hey guys. Hey guys. Hey guys. Hey guys. Hey guys. Hey guys. Hey guys. Before we get into the episode. Before we get into another fantastic episode. That's ridiculous. Another side-splitting episode. No, we don't need to like put adjectives to describe. Let's do this. Another nice warm and comfy. Hey guys. Before we get into the episode. Don't say the episode. Before we get into the episode. Don't say the name of the podcast. No, not here. What? But as we say it now, but it's funny. Every time here. Look me in the eye and tell me it's not funny. Every single time you hear that bleep. I don't think it's that, but it's your joke. Damn it. Damn it. Damn it. I feel like I see you, Giggle. Just not as hard as me. Baby. Alright. Hey guys. Before we get into the episode of what the f*** do we know. Thank you. Yay! You should know that this was recorded earlier in summer 2025. And we're just re-releasing it here for you guys. To enjoy. I love you. Wait, that's not right. We love you. Oh, you name the voice now. I'm so bad at impressions, man. You're bad at impressions? Oh, bad. Then we should do a whole podcast of you doing impressions. Oh, not only because you're bad at them. Name a voice. Oh, 45-year-old white male trump voter. Oh, shoot. That was good. Oh, I'm proud. I'm proud to be a market cause at least I know I'm... That was really bad. It's really bad. Not it, not it. As a 45-year-old trump voter, I'm very offended that you're... I'm proud to be a market cause at least I know I'm free. And I won't forget the man who died who gave the right to me. Okay, next. Yeah, all right. That was not bad. Oh, now seeing it. I know, Ariana Grande, okay. Now seeing it as a... Now seeing it as a Ponzi British schoolboy. Oh. And I'm proud to be an American. Cause at least I know I'm free. I didn't hear the British. No, no, why not the British? What am I doing? Okay, let me try again. I'm so bad. I don't even know what Ponzi means. What does that mean? Like a fancy boy. A fancy boy? I just said that in a German accent. Sorry. And I'm proud to be an... That's not British. I never said that in accent. Ponzi British school... Like Oliver Twist. Do I look like Oliver Twist sound like singing that? No, you do me on Oliver Twist. Oh, great. Please, sir. Oh, yeah. The work. I'm proud to be an American. Oh, yeah. Honestly. Oh, that's so good. And I'm proud to be... No, I can't do it. It's tough. Well, you're singing proud to be an American in a British accent, which I feel is... And I'm proud to be an American. An American. Because at least I know I'm free. Yeah. Oh, man. You do it. You sing it. And I'm proud to be an American. Oh, my God. Because at least I know I'm free. What? That was amazing. So I was. I was. I gave you... That was a setup. I want to just need to do it the whole time. I want you to do it again. Because I'm proud to be an American. Where at least I know I'm free. That's him being worried he's going to get beaten. Where at least I know I'm free. That's so good. He's like in his bed chambers. While the headmaster is walking the halls. No one in here better be proud to be an American. Why does he have an American accent? The back guy does. The pole over twist does it. Oh, my God. Because in this scenario he's in America. He's been brainwashed by the headmaster. But for some reason he hasn't lost his British accent. And this is getting weirder and weirder. Well, that was fun. That was fun. What do we want to talk about today? I think what it means to be an American today, right? Because look, we just had Memorial Day, which was... Welcome to Summer, everybody. You know, barbecue's and American flag swim trunks. Like the thing that makes me really sad is like I do have a lot of good friends who are vets, right? Who like served in that. Serve their country. Serve their country. For what? To defend the quote unquote freedoms that like this country supposedly stands for. Can I give you a really cynical take on what you just said? I didn't mean to say anything yet, but okay. Okay, that's okay. I don't need much. You just... wait. So you said you know vets who serve their country. It's really easy having a conversation with you because I don't even need to have a full thought, but you'll take it somewhere. That's called me just waiting for my turn to talk. And not listening. I just listened to the last three words you said and I was like... She breathed? Okay, I can go now. My turn. That's the worst. I'm so sorry. No, you got that. I'm curious. No, wait. Well, I guess I kind of jumped to a thing when you start talking and then I just let you finish, which is what I did. But anyway, a really cynical version of what you just said, instead of like they... You know some vets who proudly serve their country? Is... Because I know some vets who proudly had nothing else to do after high school and one of the Dodge Challenger. So they signed up and then got their little bonus, went to the local Chevy dealership. Would they literally got a Dodge Challenger if you'd like to know? It's like a joke about... I don't know if it's a challenge or what's the... There's a thing about like... We come from such different worlds. I don't come from... I think it's like a... Yeah, well no, that's true actually. We definitely do. But there's like this joke about newly enlisted dudes. There's a few. There's a few tropes about them. After they get their recruitment bonus or whatever it's called, they immediately go by a Dodge Super-Japan. They go by a Dodge Super-Japan, something fast with a hemi in it. Gotcha. And then they... But... And then they get married before they leave. Mm-hmm. Because you get a bonus if you're married. And then that woman proceeds to have sex with every other person on the base while that person's gone. No. That's like the thing. It's like, why did you... Like y'all had been together for three months before you and then now he's leaving and you decided to get married? Yeah. What did you think was gonna happen? Yeah. That's like a... You know, that's a mean stereotype about newly enlisted men. Because then they go overseas. We... I wish I knew. We as a country rob them of their physicality and give them PTSD. Yeah. And then they come back. And we say thank you for your service. Yeah, yeah. Which none of that is cynical, but the part about where did they really sign up because they wanted to fight for their country? Or did they sign up because they were a sea student and didn't have much else going on? Well, which is so mean and not fake. No, but I think that it also is like one of the arguments against how we recruit for our armed forces as we go into... Yeah. ...economically disadvantaged neighborhoods and prey on people who have, you know, no real good prospects in front of them. You know? Yeah. So it's... I mean, I can't argue with that. Well, I guess that's kind of like the... ...all stereotypes come from somewhere because there are so many enlisted people who... Yeah. ...and members of our armed services who don't have that as their background and are in it for, you know, the... I don't see enough for the right reasons, but that isn't their thing. But let's... It's also a lot too. But, okay, but let's just... Let's just even out that playing field anyways and just say, well, everyone's in it... ...and everyone's in it, right? But they all have... Once you're in it, you've got the same experience, but the sad thing, the completely... The thing that destroys me now completely is that like, what have they even fought for? Yeah. Like, what are... And what are they fighting for? I bet it destroys them a lot more than it destroys you. The weird thing is, I don't know that it does, right? Because the people in the armed forces are really... ...brainwashed to just stay out of politics, stay out of politics completely, right? Like, you're... Some of them. But I mean, that's the culture, right? Like, you're not allowed to speak out against political administrations, you're not allowed to... Oh, yeah, you're supposed to serve the commander-in-chief regardless of who it is, yeah. Yeah. Isn't it the thing that the military tends to... Like, when you pull them, don't they tend to be further right-leaning? That's like a thing, right? That's a thing. Well, within the enlisted, I think. Within, yeah, exactly. Yeah, not amongst the officers, I don't think necessarily. But anyways, I think, though, if we're going to go back to the point of, what does it mean to be an American? What are people even fighting for these days? What are we fighting for now? Like, now? We're fighting for the exact opposite of the principles that this country was ideally founded on. Of course, it's never been true since the foundation of this country. We've had slavery, so it's like those two things were an oppositions at the beginning. But at least the ideals that we proclaimed were things that I think we should keep fighting for. And those things are now not the embodiment of who we are. I don't know, dude. I think when this country was first founded, we were fighting for the rights of white male property owners. And I think now, finally, we are back to that. So, again, the very center of the way of working at it. So, again, the very center of the way of working at it. The best thing that has ever happened in this country, based on what I just said. He was the first person to finally get us back to our true roots, protecting white male landowners. I think the ideals that were espoused. I'm being super-sensitive. The American experiment of like, okay, the idea of America as an idea. Yeah, as it's sold to us, or as we like to sell it to ourselves. As we like to sell it to ourselves, because what else are we going to do? Well, if you're going to be nationalistic at all, you've got to believe your country is cool. Or if you're just going to be a living human being who wants a happy place to live and to create a better society for everybody, you've got to believe in something, right? I know that a pretty good job so far. Are you believing in anything? Are you going to go start a new country that believes in your ideals? Or you could just say? That's what I'm going to move to Canada thing, right? Because that's after every election. Or before every election, there's always that group from either side. Actually, the right doesn't usually say they're going to go to Canada. Where do they say? They say, get the fuck out. Oh, yeah. They say they get the fuck out. They say, leave the left side. I'm going to Canada. They want to be a fisherman on the coast of Italy. Go be an immigrant asshole. That's why? Maybe that's why they always say get out, because they don't want to go anywhere else. Maybe they know they won't be accepted, and their big entry won't, no, I totally would be. There's bigots in every country. No, you meant that. I thought they said they said they want to get the fuck out. But I feel like they usually say get the hell out of here. Yeah, but you're like Ideals, again, the idea that the moral arc of the universe, you know, is... Lines towards better. Lines towards justice, yeah. Lines towards justice. Yeah, Lines towards justice. That's that old saying. Oh, man. I think I truly, do you truly believe that? I truly believe that. Wow, you do. I think over a long enough period of time, we do bend towards that. With interruptions, but I think if you zoom out far enough, you can get it. You can, you can, I think you can see the needle start moving in a positive direction. If you zoom out far enough. Okay. I think. Am I naive for believing that? I think that... Am I white male for believing that? To me, I feel like that's the only thing we can believe. Like, that's my world view in general. That's my view. Like, I kind of feel like you can decide what to believe, right? And like, why pick a belief that is going to make your life worse? Like, you might as well pick the belief that's going to give you the most hope and the most chance of like making a change for the better. Well, explain now, isn't that? Yeah. And like, I think, here, I'll play double-zack, because like I said, obviously I agree with what you just said. That's been my core, my, one of my core beliefs as well, or one of the things I keep coming back to. But I, I'll give credence. Yeah, because I think we've all felt that way. At least I know I have. There are times when just saying fuck it and saying the world is fucked. Everything is fucked. I bow out. What do you do when you bow out, though? You embrace nihilism. You embrace that the, it's kind of, it's kind of an anarchist-ish ethos in that like, thing the world sucks, the world will always suck. That's not a con-proc ethos. A little bit too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Sure, I think it's shared amongst a bunch of groups like that, and that's definitely one of them. Like, this is fucked. It's not going to get better. And putting any effort into trying to improve it is pointless, and you're better spent just trying to drain as much of your own happiness out of life as you possibly can. And- What is drain, you mean, oh, squeeze? You're in it for yourself. You mean squeeze as much happiness. Yes, okay. Like, like, like, you're, like, when, when you're done with it, when you're leaving your mortal coil, when you're leaving this earth, you want to have- More so cold. To have cold as much happiness out of this experience as you possibly have. And it's a very different way of thinking, then, I want to leave the world a better place. I had a mission, and did I accomplish it or not? This worldview is just like, missions like that are naive and stupid. Fuck that. I'm just going to try to get mine and leave here as happy as I can be. Yeah, I think that's pretty much the most disgusting worldview I've ever encountered. Like, I relate to zero percent of that. Zero? Zero. You've never felt like- No. No, not to that extent. No. I've definitely felt that way before. I've, I can sympathize 100 percent. I can sympathize with people who feel that way. Well, that sucks. Well, okay. I can, I bet I can, can make it make sense to you with an example. Okay, go. Let's say your experience in life has been a completely irredeemable, unending sequence of suffering after suffering. Your entire life. And there are so many people in this world who have that experience, whose lives are so immeasurably- Well, being born and now living in Gaza. I mean- Great example. Holy shit. If you're a kid, born in, oh my god, born in that part of the world, and that's been your entire life, and your view is that this world is filled with awful people who are just trying to hurt each other. Why the hell would anyone try and save it? You know what? I just hope I can get to the grave with some happiness before I die. And for someone whose grave could be any second from now because a shell is going to hit them, I'm not going to judge them from that way. I get that. I guess- Now, you can now, now take us to Bourbon White Kid from New Jersey who has that exact same mindset, who has not- That's where we get pissed off. For sure. Okay. And that I understand. But also like, you know, those are emo kids. And I was an emo kid, so I kind of- You grew out of it though. Oh, hopefully. Do it, did I? I mean, you grew out of it. Did I? I don't know. Did you? Did I? Did you? No, not always. I revert back to that mindset, but I think- I don't think it's a good mindset though. That's where I come down on the idea that we have choice over our mindset, right? And if someone who is mature enough, like isn't 17 anymore, is going to decide to leave that, I'm sort of like, get over yourself. Like grow the fuck up. Any- Any- Maybe nihilists or anarchists listening to this right now, you just heard it. Grow the fuck up. Grow the fuck up. Yeah, and decide to do something. That was cute when you were 17. That was cute. Decide now to do something that means something with your life, you know? Start a podcast. Try to make the world a better place. Try. Try to make the world a better place. I cannot argue with that at all. I sympathize with people with that mindset and- Well, oh man. You know what I'm trying to do right now? I'm trying to think if there is a place in this world for them. Like is there- is the world a better place for having people like that in it to a certain up to a certain percentage? I agree the world will be all for the most part- I like making arguments for every side, but I can't even begin to see an argument for how the world might be a better place with those people in it. I'm a get-mind and squeeze every bit of pleasure, I can't even fuck this world. Okay, hang on. It's- This is a stretch. So I don't know. You might be able to easily bat this down. Isn't that kind of a core fundamental component of capitalism and even high extension democracy? Democracy, no. Vote in your own best interest. In fact, the right got to where they are by- and this is a common talking point in the left- convincing people to vote against their self-interests. If those poor people who have been voting for rich people tax breaks, this whole time hadn't been doing that and instead had been voting for their actual own economic self-interests. This country literally would be in a better place right now, but they didn't. They were manipulating- You're making a really excellent point, but- Yes! But- Yes! Your connection to- No, it's not talking. How do you pronounce that word? Nihilism. Anihilism. Your connection is very weak because you've taken one tiny thing- This is- And you're excellent at doing this. You took the one thing from the system. It's awesome. About just self-interest vote. Yeah, no, but that was at a point. I think the relationship to capitalism is less strained than the one democracy. The one that democracy is pretty strong. Yeah, capitalism, the relationship- We really are supposed capitalism's fuel is green. Well, here's the thing. I think that capitalism is actually genius, right? But we need to- Ooh, wait, really? Oh, yeah, but I don't think it can be- I wouldn't have guessed you had that thought about capitalism. But it can't be unrestricted capitalism. That's why I believe in having the powers of the kind of fucked up government, right? But I don't- I think capitalism plays onto every human's innate selfishness without taking it to- And then government comes in and says, okay, but there's bounds to that. You know? Okay. I love everything you just said, because I assume this whole time you were socialist. You did not. Honestly, though, I- We haven't really talked about that whole capitalism where- We have not, yeah. Because on the left, like, the demonization of capitalism is a pretty common thing. Right, especially now. And that's actually somewhere- So, when we talk about this briefly, but- I think that's a whole other episode, yeah. It is, it is, but I'm just to- So, we know where we're at. I'm 100% with you. And I honestly think that's- Can it has excluded me from some conversations on the left? Because I don't believe capitalism is inherently evil. I think exactly what you just said. That it's a fantastic idea- Win balanced, win controlled. Yeah. And I think similarly about socialism, the idea of like helping your fellow man and the government caring about everyone is great, except it's- Win left to go on its own, just like the capitalism left with bad things happening. Yeah, yeah. So, I'm 100% with you on that. And I love that you said that. I'm said. What I was, what I was thinking earlier was trying to make the connection between nihilists or that like fuck at all mindset and if they have a place in this world. Right. If they can contribute. If they contribute to making this world a better place. But wait, what if- Okay, so much in the same way that like the fuel capitalism is, you know, the- an individual going like, well, I want to make a better life for myself. Yeah. And when you expand that mindset amongst an entire population, the goal is everyone makes a better life for themselves. Yeah. And it's wonderful. Right. What if this world was just filled with people who didn't give a fuck about anyone else and only wanted to make their own lives better? I literally think that's the definition of hell. Okay, have you heard that old analogy? There's some- it's maybe from the Bible or someplace where they're like, people are trapped in- sitting in a circle and they're supposed to be in hell or something. I think I'm probably getting this so wrong, but they- they have their hand. There's like a big pile of food in the middle or something. And they're all starving to death because their hands are outstretched and they can't reach their mouths. Their hands are like tied straight in front of them, they can't reach their mouths. But they could literally just turn to the side and feed the next person with their hand outstretched, but they never do. They never do. And that's fucking hell. Is that- is that in the Bible or something? Where did I get that from? It's something. I don't think- I mean, I don't think that's in the Bible, but it's a great analogy. I'm sure it's from somewhere. Yeah, it's from something. Some proverb. Yeah. Yeah, and that's really interesting. So that's hell? Wait, when you say that's hell, that's the worst possible version of existence. I think so too. I feel like there's worse ones. Being so selfish and only concerned about yourself, I think that makes you- What if rather than being only concerned about yourself, you were only concerned with hurting others? Okay, okay. That's a worse world. That's a worse world. That's what I do. I just take that ridiculous thing and I just turn it away. Yeah, you went. I know that's terrible. But well, I won because you went to an extreme and then anytime someone goes to an extreme, it's always been a poke hole. Yeah. Oh, my God. I don't want to discourage you going to an extreme though. Always do that. Please always go to an extreme because then I can be right. I do that too. I do that too. I do that too though. I always do things to an extreme. Okay. I don't think- I guess, yeah, it's unquestionable that a world where you care about your fellow man is definitely better than a world where you don't. I just, yeah, I want to try and feel sympathy for people who don't give a fuck about the system and think it's all fucked and pointless and are just in it for themselves. I guess because I kind of consider them harmless. Are they harmless? Are they useless? I think they're useless. And harmless, I don't know, right? Because if they are being an example for anybody, like their kids, then they're harmful, right? And if they're harmless at work, well, they're probably harmful because they're not serving the common mission, they might be more likely to cheat and bribe and kill and do shit if it serves their purpose. I think if you don't care about it, the people use it like your own app. I didn't think about that. Yeah, you know what though what you're kind of getting at is, and I think this is a thing that where like, I think I think a big reason why that ethos or that mindset dies as you get older is because it is so easy to find holes in it. Okay, you're only out for yourself in the system sucks. What are you going to do for a job? Okay, go to your job. You're still only out for yourself or do you have to do what your boss tells you? And your coworker over there, if you don't help them right now, that's actually going to make your life worse. So maybe you should help. Okay, you're helping them now. You're helping your, like how far back do we have to go? You kind of start to realize things are interconnected. That's it. I think maybe, wow, I'm sort of just like, I don't hate people with that mindset, but it is so goddamn immature because we are all interconnected. Because we are. That analogy you had about the hand, like that's not the world we live in, but that's a part of the world we live in. That does exist to a degree. So yeah, that's a good point. Okay, I can't defend those people, but they're here. They're out here. My thing is, like since we're all American and we have to figure out like what it means to be an American today, I think that what we do is we believe, we have to, we have to. I don't think we have any other choice. Like we have to believe in the aspirations of what America was built on. The idea and ideals of what America could be and we have to keep holding those close and working together towards that. How important is the existing idea of America to the vision that you have for America? Is it necessary to get to where you see the country going or do you think it doesn't really matter where we came from, we just need to go, we need to just do better? Or do you think it's important to always keep in mind, well this is how we started, this is what we've done, this is who we have been, and then thus that should inform who we are. I think we need something to like keep us together because if we just like every person has their own vision for America, there's nothing connected, right? But like the principles that America was founded on, not always executed on, never executed on, but the principles and ideals that we were founded on were things like, equality, right? Everybody is equal, it started, right? It didn't, it wasn't executed like that, but that was the idea, right? And things like, you know, human rights and things like due process and things like, you know, innocent until proven guilty, like things like that, like we need to hold whatever good was back then stated as like the ideals and then build from there because that's what connects us all. Like otherwise we would each just make up our own set of ideals, but we can't do that. Hmm, we need that to hold us together. Okay, damn, I think you're right, but what's giving me pause is just how God damn easy it is to twist and manipulate what, similar to religion in that, like you can take any holy book and twist it to make it mean what you want it to mean. Yeah, yeah. It's a tale as old as time, like it's, and anything, the Bible, Karan, take whatever it is, it's possible for someone to use that book, an authority figure and preach a message that maybe wasn't actually at all in line with that. And I think the constitution can be similar. Yeah. I think this country's ideals, I think the things you just mentioned, are great fundamental components of any government. The statue of liberty, you know, like this idea of it. Bring your tired and your poor. Yeah. Yeah, we don't do that. We don't want them no more. We don't like him. We don't want him no more, apparently. But that ideal, like, I don't know, like, you know. Yeah, but okay, wait, wait, wait, let me play devil's advocate like a motherfucker for a second because I'm just going to tell you the twisted version of everything you just said. The statue of liberty, we don't, they're just sending us their criminals and their rapists. We don't want that. We want white people from Europe. What are you talking about? That's what the statue of liberty meant. Ew, ew, ew. Ew. You're just talking Trump now. What are you doing? That's what I'm playing devil's advocate. I'm twisting it. What I'm doing is twisting all those ideals you just said that we should have. Okay. Bring me your tired and your poor. Yeah, white people with education. Be, be this tired because they just got done going to college. We are the shining city on the hill. How does that, sorry, go ahead. So we should only get good people? Yeah, but for everyone. First of all, but that's a lie that it's the criminals and the rapists that are running in through Mexico. That's a fuck, that's just made up. So, so do you want criminals and rapists here? Is that what you're saying? They're not criminals and rapists. Yes they are. I just found a story about a guy from Mexico who rapes someone. So clearly, yes they are. Logic. It's just really easy to change manipulate that stuff. Like just because someone goes, I fucking hate brown immigrants coming into this country, I really wish we only had educated white people in this country. Someone who thinks like that. But we are doing enough, friend. Okay, sorry, just pinning that, I want to cut you to finish. But I will say I've seen a number of stories recently which shocked me. Shocked me. That they, ICE is apprehending, like for example, this one thing, I'm not sure if you're a family from Denmark. As why does you fucking get? What a liberal though. Good question. Because then they need to get good fuck out of this country. Maybe, maybe that's why. But they've apprehended a Denmark family because the father, they were here legally and yet there was one form that they didn't fill out in 2013. Oh, I bet if they voted for Trump, they'd still be here. I wonder. I mean this is craziness. But anyways, okay go on. Yeah, I know. What the heck? Oh, I would have, like okay, for instance, you used to like the Statue of Liberty, what that means? I think in the heads of the, you know, big hits and racists who only want certain people coming to this country. I think in their heads, they're not at all abandoning the ideals of the Statue of Liberty. In fact, they get it. In their heads, they actually know what the Statue of Liberty means and what it represents. And idiots like you and me don't. We are actively trying to hurt this country by encouraging the worst of the worst to come here and not bothering to police our borders and only get the best of the best to come to this wonderful shining hill, city on a hill that we've created. And we need to stamp out all those people on the left who are letting all these awful people in. That's what the Statue of Liberty means. No, no, no. That we should keep this country great. How does the Statue of Liberty mean that though? I don't know. I don't know. Because we want immigrants. We want the best of the best to come here. But we don't want to make the country worse by doing it. But that's not even what gives me your time. And know where in that Statue of Liberty thing doesn't say that. Like, those are already the following way. Well, it's still, it's a symbol, right? It's just what is a symbol. I mean, I don't think there's many people who could recite to you exactly what's on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. I don't think I can go much beyond bringing your tired in your poor. But what is it symbolize? And you brought it up as the Statue of Liberty should be a symbol of essentially a progressive ideal. And I think you can get pretty easily twisted to make it mean whatever you want. I think symbols are good at that, just like Bibles, statues, and constitutions. I think you can twist any of that stuff. I just, I don't know. I don't know. You haven't convinced me that you just take the line, bring me your tired in your poor, could be twisted to mean only bring me your lights. No, I don't think the line tired in your poor can be twisted like that. Oh God, maybe I'm not going to underestimate the ability of a person to do circular logic. Yeah. No, but okay. But so what's your ultimate point there? Okay. Here's my ultimate point. So you were saying that we should not forget the fundamental core principles that this country was based on. We need to keep those in mind as we move forward and try to fix what we've done. Especially recently with this country. Yeah. And I'm playing devil's advocate by saying, is that actually hurting progress? Because I think, like, I don't think you can say what you just said to someone who disagrees with you politically and them go like, you're absolutely right. Those founding core principles are so important. We should do all that stuff. I think they're going to go, you don't know the fuck, you just made my point for me. All those core principles, those are on my side, stupid, not yours. And they'll just use circular logic to make them all fit them. Just like you can take the Bible to say, love everyone or you can take the Bible to mean fuck gay people. And both people who believe the Bible says that are 100% convinced the Bible says that. Much like the country. But what the great thing is this devil's advocate position, they're like, what is the solution? Keep all the brown people out. No. Oh my God. The solution is. Um, well, I hope not. You're just going to have to keep repeating a marriage of black woman. This is my back friend, okay? You want to have the quickest way to know someone is super, super not progressive in terms of their thought. I keep saying that shit. I guess what I'm saying is like, I'm not really arguing for like, let's abandon everything that made this country great in the first place. But I think the other side would view it as like, no, no, no, this last election did it. We were finally backed. Maybe that's good. Maybe that's good because then there'd be something we can quote unquote agree on, the core principles. And then, you know, and then we would actually have something to start from and say, okay, so you're going to get past the racism. Yeah. So we're going to come around with that. But honestly, like, what is the solution then? Like, I don't see any other solution than starting with something that like this country was founded on. Well, the solution is probably education because more informed solutions also education for sure. Yeah. For sure. Um, because, okay, okay. How did we get to where we're at? But wait, wait, wait, wait. Uneducated people being misled. Yeah, but I guess what I'm trying to say is like before all of this, like, okay, like when you start a company or when you start a movement or when you start anything, you need to have a vision of like, you start career, you need a vision of like where you're going. Yeah. I think that the first thing we need to do is like, and maybe it's just on the left, right? Because like you said, the right right now is off the deep end is going to pervert everything in anything, right? Yeah. And already has. Um, but so maybe it's just like those of us on the left, like those of us on the left need to come together on a vision first and foremost before we can start working together on any progress. I do love the idea. Okay. Because if we have half the democratic coalition saying that like, you know, America sucks, then like how the fuck are we ever going to get anywhere? I love everything you're saying right now. I love the idea. This has been, this came around. I first heard of this idea back in the George W. Bush days, but this idea that how did, why did the left seed patriotism to the right? Yes. Why did the left seed loving this country to the right? Yes. Bring back patriotism in a not racist dude. I hear so off like, and there's a real difference between patriotism and nationalism, a huge difference. Talk about that person. I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. I just love that. I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with you. I'm not sure if it's not your words, and I don't remember. Anyways, yeah, like nationalism means you only care about, like you believe that you are better than everybody else, and you are... It's exclusionary. It's exclusionary. Patriotism is having pride and wanting to make this thing a better, and having be inclusionary. Oh, making your patriotic. I love that freedom. Go to war for you right now. And I'm proud to be in American. Okay. Now like a Kenyan school teacher. No. No, I will not do that. Don't you dare sing it like that. Um, Patriotism is wanting to make the country you live in better. And nationalism is... And feeling camaraderie with those in it. Yes. And nationalism is feeling exclusionary. And we're better than everybody else. Everyone else sucks, we're better. And if you don't fit what part of you of this thing is, you're not welcome. You're not welcome. And let's kill. And let's destroy to make sure that we remain the best. So did the left... Okay. So, what do we take? Patriotism back. How do we take... You don't like if you need to take back patriotism? Yeah. Religion. And well, those two big things. Patriotism and religion. The left needs to take religion back. I think so, for sure. How do they do that? I mean, I don't know. I'll be honest. Patriotism, I can see religion. You want to take evangelicals from the right? Bro, if we... If the left got evangelicals. Actually, Trump kind of... Okay, let's talk about this for a second. It's kind of shocking. Like, Catholics aren't voting Trump. Not as in mass as you think... Religious group would. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing the degree to which Trump hasn't lost the evangelical right. For someone who's as openly... Just flippant about so many religious ideals. You kind of wonder, like... And he still didn't lose him that much. Yeah. That's not what I was wrong with them. Racism. Yeah. I just always blame him. No, I mean, I think that's a huge, huge, huge, huge part of it. I don't love that he's an awful person. But I do love that him and I share our hatred of brown people. Yeah. Gonna vote for the guy now. But also because of their like, master messaging around making them fear immigrants, and making them fear brown people, and making them think that... Master messaging. Those people are the things that are making their life worse, and not billionaires, or whatever else, you know? I mean, it's a tactic as all this time. Like medieval kings were... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, dividing conquer. Yeah. And it is all in the messaging. And how does... No, okay, how... Okay. I think, okay, how does the left get back patriotism? How do you... So you're proud to be an American. You... I think... Are you pro-military if you're on the left? Yeah, I mean, you're pro... Love that. You're pro-vets. Pro-vets, God, yeah. Are you pro-increasing the defense budget? No, I mean, I think the defense... I think the defense budget is wildly out of control. Yeah, me too. You look at that, I have like reasonable people looking at it. Okay, so now you're talking about cutting the defense budget, you fucking communist. Right now, the defense budget is informed by the huge defense lobby and the donors, right? Like, it's not in proportion to what it would work for. Well, it's a jobs program, isn't it? Isn't it just like... It's a guy from Montana being like, if we build F-16s here, then my constituents will be happy. I think it's that... I think it's easy to sell that because it's the defense budget. I think it's that plus, it's like, you know, all the huge corporations, like the Lockheeds and the Rheathions, just, you know, lobbying... That's what a huge amounts of money. Dwight, that's what Eisenhower said on his way out. What's it called in conflict? Military industrial complex. I think he coined that term. On his way out of office, he was like, yeah. It could get bad, y'all. You better keep an eye on that. And we were like, thanks, like, we didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it just went and took over our country. Yeah, right. Oops. Our bad. Well, I mean, I think having a strong military is important, but just not one where we're wasting billions of dollars a year, we're hundreds of billions of dollars a year, you know? You know, when... Here's another kind of thing about... This is an interesting thing about what it means to be an American. And the South Park guy has made a whole movie about this, but the idea that we are the world's police. Yeah. And that... Here's something that I don't want to say I agree with the right on, but it is a bit of a common beef I have with the rest of the country. Okay. Okay. A lot of other countries don't have to spend nearly as much on their military because we spend so much. Yeah. Because we do so much policing. A very, very quick... What does it say? Point against what I just said is calling into question our ethics with which we use our military, which is 100% valid. We do not use our military ethically in every situation. And we... There are many examples where we have used our military for very unethical purposes, but that being said, it from a... Just from a fucking budgetary standpoint. Like there are many countries on earth who when they're putting their defense budget together go, we don't have to... We don't have to do this defense thing because America is covering that. And if we weren't covering it, those countries would... And I've heard Trump make that point before. Yeah, but the point is that that is... That we do that because it also serves our self-interest. We do that because it keeps us as the leader of the world. We do that because... But I would also live if we didn't spend so much on defense. I would love if we cut that, but it does... It's not just a... Because this is an interconnected world that comes with consequences. Like, for example, like Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal because we said we would protect it, right? Perfect example. Perfect example. And now, of course, all of that has gone... Hey, wire, and we're doing the complete opposite of what we have promised all of our allies. That's a great, great... But that's... So, yeah, so it's like now, I think at this point, I agree with you. At this point in our path toward fascism, like I don't... Like I don't think America is ever going to come back as the leader of the free world. Like, if our analysis and where we're going to be in four years, like I don't see any path to where we're suddenly going to be the leader of the free world again. Like that's not... I don't know that there will be a free world. That's the other thing, right? Because like, well, China and Russia, you know, be the leaders now of the world. Like, we're so used to living in a post-World War II environment. I can't even get my head around. Post-Cold War, really. It was by... Okay, maybe. Yeah. Post-Cold War is just us. Yeah, okay. So, but like, I can't get my head around what it would mean to live in a world where... The whole world order was upended, right? And like, living in a police state just becomes the normal. Well, okay, what is that... Okay, let's map out that future, though. What does that future look like? So let's go to a future where America's soft power has eroded. And they say the dollar is not the strongest currency around the world. Is that part of soft power? Hard power is military and just guns. I think soft power is like culture. And is economics part of soft power? I can't remember. But that's really the thing. Because we still have, by far, the biggest military. And I don't think that's going away any time soon. So from that perspective, like, bring it China. We got way more guns than you. And taking Newk's out of the equation in which we all died. Like, we still... Like, that's still there. But what we have lost already and what it looks like... We're probably going to still continue to lose. Is that, like, that soft power, that, like, English is the business of language. The dollar is the currency of business. Like, those... And the way the world works is kind of through that American funnel. What a... That's that American exceptionalism thing. That goes away. Which it will. But, okay, sorry, go ahead. Yeah. Oh, God. You keep bumping me out. Like, I don't see a future where we get that back. Like, we are the laughing stock of the world right now. And we are aligned with Russia. Like, what the fuck? Like, what if... You don't think the next... Oh, man. Is there an ad... I'm just purchasing it as a rich dozen. I know. Is there an idyllic sneer? Okay, here's my best piece of idyllic sneer. Okay, let's go imagine an ad. Okay. So it's whatever fall 2026. And there's midterm elections. And somehow we still have an election. We still have elections. You still bumping me out. Even your ideals and everything. No, no, no. This is a good thing. We still have elections, right? They're not interfered with. The results are counted accurately. And say the Democrats take over the House and the Senate. And then we impeach Trump. Did this exact thing happen? This might up until the impeach thing. Actually, no. Didn't all this happen in the United States? First term, 2018. We took over the House and did we took over the Senate to... There was a blue wave, though. We might not have taken over the Senate and I think that's what stopped the impeachments from going through. 100% right? Or we took over the Senate but we didn't have that two thirds majority which we need to pass an impeachment through the Senate. I don't think we even got the Senate. This is something we should look at. This is something we should look at. This is something we should look at. I don't think we got the Senate. Yeah, even if we didn't, obviously we didn't get enough. Yeah. And then we got the Senate to do something. And then we didn't, obviously we didn't get enough. Yeah. And... So it was the mansion thing. Manchin was like that. Manchin and cinema. He was the... He was the mansion and cinema. What are they, the swing or whatever. But yeah. Anyways. I don't, I think we may have had the Senate. Anyways, I don't remember. But, six, 2026. Blue wave. We get the House. We get the Senate. Blue wave. We get the House and the Senate. We end up getting enough of the Senate that we can impeach Trump and get him to leave office. But then what? JD Vance becomes president which is very like Doomsday scenario in my mind. But... I disagree with you on that. I think JD Vance becomes president. But also. President is one of the best things that can happen to the world. But then say Trump's... Okay. If Trump gets impeached and removed from office, like he's, there's no way he's leaving. There's no way he's leaving, right? So he's going to tell the military to, you know, whatever. Do whatever to... He's going to try to January 6th. He's going to try to January 6th is on removal. Conversation. But then like, but then what happens? The military is loyal to the Constitution and supposedly before Trump won this past year, like there had been conversations... You're talking about trying to avoid a coup. This is insane. It's not even insane, right? No, it's insane that this is reality. You're nothing you're saying is out of... Oh my god. Yeah. Sorry, keep going. There had been, I have heard, there have been like conversations high up in the defense department before Trump won in November 24 about what happens if? Like what happens if Trump tries to tell... If Trump tries to tell... If the man gets his finger on the butt. Yeah, what happens if Trump tells the military to do something that's unconstitutional and a lot of conversations within high levels of the defense department to remind everybody that like the defense department, the military is loyal to the Constitution and not to the President? Didn't a bunch of stories come out from the first Trump's first term about that kind of stuff happening all the time where he would... He would give an order that someone between him, like down the chain of command would just ignore because they knew that it was insanely unconstitutional. Really? I don't know about that. I feel like there's a bunch of stuff that came out that specifically with military stuff where he would just, hey, we should do this. I guess what's so scary to me now though is like, yeah, he had at least like career public servants and strong military leaders who at least understood their job. Okay, wait, wait, wait, we're gonna go track because you're trying so hard to pick up the idea of how it keeps bumping me out. It keeps going in the wrong direction. Okay, so what happened? In this ideal scenario, the military doesn't fuck us over. God, I guess we'll let military not fuck us over. I can't even see that happening. Oh no! No! Oh my god. Okay, can I pause your idyllic scenario? Yeah, edit my idyllic scenario. Okay, here's someone I have to edit it. Yeah, what else could happen? That's good. Okay, this is gonna be depressing, but I think this is the only way the idyllic scenario ever happens. Okay. And I'll bet you could guess what I'm gonna say. No, I actually can't. I don't know where you're gonna go. I'll bet I can get you to guess it. There's only one way. Oh yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's only one way. Yeah. Here's, let me be a little optimistic for a minute. Okay. And I think I, I don't know if I'm alone in this on the left, but sometimes it feels like it. Um, if whatever cosmic event occurs that for whatever reason Trump is no longer in charge, I think it all falls apart. I think the entire mega thing, I think all of it, goes away. This is where you're so more optimistic than me. I thought you were a cynical one. No, I know. And I'm bringing this up for a reason because I do, this is very different from my normal. And again, from viewpoints that a lot of people on the left that I agree with and a lot of stuff differ with. I think this begins, I think the left grossly underestimates the insane charisma Trump has because it doesn't work on them. Like, if this were a game of D&D, his charisma role is the number infinity. And especially compared to the black hole of charisma that is his current vice president, you can't, it doesn't get any, it doesn't get any further from truth. Like it doesn't get any further apart from that. That dude, that coalition does not get behind them. Trump is one of one. There is no, I don't know if there's a politician in history who can do what he did, who can get away with what he's got. He's broken every rule. No politician has ever survived what he's survived. To, no politician has survived what Trump did in 2015, much less what he's done up through 2025. He is so far out ahead of everyone else in terms of what he can do. No politician, no one's been able to mimic it. They've all been trying, they've been trying it for a decade now. Every politician on the right, since that fucking primary where he was on, with a book tour that ended with the presidential bid, ever since then, all those other politicians on the right were looking at him going, I can do that. I can, I see what he's doing. I can do that better than him. And they've all failed. Every single one of them, none of them have been able to do it. They all lost. None of them can bring together that unholy coalition that he did, those disgusting people and their viewpoints. He can bring them together and he can make them lockstep do what he wants them to do and no other politician on earth has ever been able to do that. And when he goes, that coalition falls apart. They infight, they disagree, they don't vote in lockstep and rationality survives and beats them back and we win. And it goes back to the way it was where it's imperfect and we disagree and sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. That means we so happy. But no one else can bring together that basket of deplorables as Hillary called them. Oh god. Shout out Hillary. You know, sorry girl. I think that I would have to agree with you that that is the best. Yes. The best case scenario. That is the only best case scenario that I can think of right now actually because mine doesn't work. He's not going to leave. He's not going to be, he's not going to go be removed from office. Listen, I don't think what I said is going to happen because I think he's going to live forever. No, he's not. I think the power of hatred will keep him alive until the heat death of the universe. No, he's not. But I, that, I think that's where we end this episode because you just gave me a lot of hope. Yay! That is, that, I think that's like the best case scenario and that's maybe what we all have to just keep holding on for. Let me, before we end it, let me give just a little bit of cynicism because I'm me. And it actually goes back to what you were saying earlier. What, what the future of this country could look like? Because even in my deal scenario, unfortunately a lot of damage has been done. And our soft power, how it has been eroded, I'm not really, really sucks. We've lost the trust of so many other countries that we somehow kept even through the 2016 to 2020 run. And our vote this last fall, we lost a ton of that. Yeah. And it sucks how narrowly we lost that. Yeah. Don't hurt it so narrowly. But that, that, I don't think we get all that toothpaste back in the bottle. I think, I think we, we carry on some degree, but it's not going to be the way it was. Like not everything. We're not going to get what we want in negotiations with other countries. Trade is going to be immeasurably hurt, manufacturing is going to be immeasurably hurt. That's, that stuff isn't going to go away. Unfortunately, we're going to be paying for those sins for a while. But at least the hope for me is that that it's, we don't, it's not going to become handmaids to. Can I just say one thing? Fuck Rogan. I hope you enjoy your millions in Texas and pieces of shit. You know, I know that that whole trope on the thing of like the left needs a Rogan of the left, like who's our Rogan of the left that every sick of that question, every sick of that question, some people think it's, you know, we need to find that still, some people think that's a ridiculous concept. Well, it says we're client. It says we're client. We all know it says we're client. I'm so not as we're client, in case you didn't get that. No, how sad is that? Our Rogan is fucking Ezra client. No wonder we lost. I'm sorry Ezra, I love you. We love the Ezra client. But also like, if it weren't for that idiot Joe Rogan, like he may know I have one. You know, like who knows? It's obviously not for many, many, many, many facts. I'm going to totally go with you. If Rogan doesn't exist. If Rogan doesn't exist. Because he's not a horrible guy. He's not somebody that's like actively trying to like whatever do bad stuff. Also, he didn't have enough intelligence to understand the impact of what that was going to have. And like, why the fuck would he endorse that idiot? You know, like there's just some people who I'm like, what is wrong with your level of intelligence and your lack of thinking? I think I can explain Rogan to you in a way that's going to make a lot of sense to you. What? White man confidence. Say more. Rogan's a white dude. He doesn't realize the severity of it. I like so many of these issues have nothing to do with being a white dude. No, no, no, no, no, not, not, not like that. The impact of these issues, meaning you will still be impacted by climate change. You'll still be impacted by right like economic ravage. Well, toward economic savage. It was, it was, it was, it was. Honestly, everything you're saying can make sense. Not yes, all of that. But specifically. You'll still be affected by the police state. You'll still be affected by not having due process. You'll still be affected by not- Don't, don't underest as a white man. Don't, let me tell you something. Don't underestimate. Listen to this for everyone out there. Who's not a white man. And if you are a white man, you should hear this too. Do not underestimate the white man's ability to be completely ignorant of everyone who isn't also a white man. Like, that you just, you don't have to care as much. Your shit is just so much more taken care of. There's so much less to be scared about. There's so much less to worry about. Especially if you're an insanely lucky, Rogan is a lucky dude. He tried to make a career in a really difficult career field. And he did it. He made it as a comedian actor, which is super difficult to do. So the dude has just been hitting royal flushes for like 20 years straight. He started a stupid little podcast where he smoked weed with people and it turned in him interviewing presidents. Like, how could he not think that he, that what he does is awesome because he's just been winning consecutively for a long, long time. Yeah. He doesn't need to think critically about this kind of stuff. He is blessed with the ability to be really ignorant and there's a lot of people like him out there. That's how you explain someone like Rogan. Like, that's the only way I can. Because how could you not see that, bro? That's how. Because he just, he doesn't need to do it, he doesn't have to care. He can say things like, why can't I have trouble? I'm just, he's just, he, he, he, why can't we just let him talk and let people figure out if they believe him or not. What's wrong? What's wrong? What's just letting people speak? Are you against free speech, bro? Go eat some milk meat. Like, that's, that's, it's from someone like his perspective. He doesn't need to think about the danger. And how much, how much it can hurt when the things that come out of Trump's mouth hit many ears. Like, does it, he doesn't have to think about it all because it doesn't hurt him. But it hurts you. But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, that's not what he's through. Like, climate change will hurt him. Gone violence will hurt him. He doesn't believe that. He believed, he has a gun, he loves guns. Climate change is, climate change is so easy to just throw out if you're on the right. You want to know how easy it is? 20 years ago, there were scientists, or at least it was being paraded around on the right. The oceans are going to swallow us up. We got, we're all going to be dead. In fact, there were literally, there were study, there were things that came out. Like, you can go find them that said like, they gave us a timeline. We have up until this point and then the world is going to be fucked. And that time passed and the world wasn't fucked. That's all someone on the right needs. I don't know if that's true. It is, it's happened. Like, there, there have been literally climatologists who put out papers that ended up being wrong. They just, they went with the knowledge they had. They didn't get it right. Like, because climate's really fucking hard to predict. But all the people on the right, and all the people who didn't want to have to hear about it who wanted to keep things going the way they've always, all they had to know is that they got it wrong once. Fuck them. Yeah. I don't believe that shit. They're just, it's just them. That's the left propaganda for just trying to get us to vote for fucking solar power. It's so easy for them to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's even without the white man thing. Yeah. Oh my god, throw that on top. Forget it. So who is our Joe Rogan of the left? It says we're client, unfortunately. I'm sorry. It is, right? It's not a can't be. Who is it? Us. No, just guess. Yes, it's gonna be us. Why not, though? It could be us. We gotta, we gotta smoke weed with a billionaire. If you and me smoke weed with a billionaire, we can definitely become the Rogan of the left. I could definitely make that happen. You heard it here first, people. At some point, if you're ever listening to an episode of this and we go on today's episode, we've got, give me a billionaire. Mark Cuban. Yo, that would be sick. Today we've got Mark Cuban in here. And then you hear like a lighter. And then you're like, and then you hear Mark go, what's up everybody? At that moment, we'll have become the Rogan of the left. Oh man. And it's gonna happen. We're gonna make it happen. Here we go. That's another thing to be optimistic about. We love y'all. We're in this together. We're in this together. We got, we're gonna do this.