Dr. Kristen Williamson on Neurospicy Brains: Identity, Change & Thriving (Part 2)

Hi, y'all. This is part two of a two-part episode. Hey there, listeners. Welcome to Shit That Goes Under Our Heads, the podcast where we normalize conversations around mental health. That's right. I'm Dirty Skittles, and alongside my amazing co-host, U-Rex, we are here to share stories and tips from our incredible guests. Each episode, we deep dive into struggles and triumphs of mental health, offering practical advice and heartfelt support. Because no one should feel alone in their journey. Join us as we break the stigma and build a community of understanding and compassion. Tune in and let's start talking about the shit that goes on in our heads. So as you got your diagnosis, did you find that some of your friends peeled away or did you find that you got a greater community out of that? None of my friends peeled away. But when I got my diagnosis, my friend said, well, yeah. Didn't you know that already? No. Why didn't you tell me? I'm here just doing weird things with blueberries. I don't know. What? And my weird things like testing, testing out the different textures because I needed to see. I did gain once I became vocal about my diagnosis and more accepting of it I was able to have more emotional bandwidth to accept people into my life who wanted to be there who wanted to be there because they liked me not just because of my diagnosis and I was able to stop putting up a wall that would keep people at arm's length because I didn't want them to see the inner me and the okay well, let's have the chameleon skin not match in with the, we can talk about sports. We can talk about band. We can do this or this or podcasting. It's they got to see the squishy parts and they still said, yes, we think you're cool, especially because you dressed up as the Lorax. I love that. I am learning so much today and I'm super excited about this because I'm like all about rural communities right now. Just because I've seen things lately that disturb me. I want to make give people more access to like resources that they can have and I know you're all about advocacy and access and helping people even in outside of your home state so what are some like good websites or places people can get additional information to make them feel more empowered not only to help themselves but maybe to help their children or a neighbor or even a co-worker? I think a lot of, and I could not pull up specifics at the moment because my brain's saying no, but I can say this later. Reading books by authors who are autistic, listening to different autism podcasts. There's so many and they're amazing and they're just glorious and they're information filled. I really love the idea of Super Nerdy with Reddit or Instagram or TikTok because it's not always set up by doctors or therapists. It's by moms or dads or grandmas. It's by people who are living life as you are. And I think there's something incredibly empowering to see your life being lived by someone who's not coming at you with a clinical verbiage. Not that all doctors necessarily make you feel talked down to because that is definitely not ever my intention to make anyone feel talked down to. But sometimes we can get in our head with, let's talk about this or look at all these big words and people are like what no we have on amazon i've got so many workbooks now that because i had my clients they said i want to know more i want to learn more i want to learn more and i'm like i could create workbooks here's my hyper fixation for six months and there's other people out there who have created different things like that as well and so as people are wanting to learn about themselves they're able to go and take these things and And there's different, there's always different ways to learn. Oh, let's learn about tactile sensories. Let's learn about auditory and just Googling and searching and just going down your own pathways and rabbit holes. There's not going to be a right or wrong answer. This is making me super happy. I love this. So what do you, now that your son's a little older, right, have you noticed any difference in behavior or, let me ask this a different way. As kids get older, do their behaviors change with their autism and ADHD? Or does it just change into something a little different? I still don't think I'm asking that right. I think I know where you're coming. And it makes me so... I'm just watching you just squirm trying to find these answers. I'm trying to find the words. Okay, yeah, y'all can just look at my face. I'm trying to find the words. I'm trying to see from the time that you're a kid And as you're progressing up in age, does the behavior change or does it get different or does it blossom into something else? Oh, oh, buckle up for my answer because I am so ready for this. Everything changes. Everything changes. So my 16-year-old has autism, ADHD. My 13-year-old, she's got the ADHD. And so it's parenting squirrel brain versus other squirrel brain. And so when they're little, they act and react one way. When they get into middle school, typically middle school age is when you start seeing the ADHD presenting itself. Because you go from elementary school to where a lot of it's socializing, a lot of it's learning just how to interact with one another within the world. Then we get into middle school where things are more streamlined. We do this class and this class, and that's when ADHD brains do not segue well. They do not transition well and they have a harder time keeping up. A good chunk of kids end up getting diagnosed from the start of middle school. So say we have a diagnosis and then that's when, you know, things are changing in middle school. We might start getting C's in classes where we got A's before or we're failing or we're struggling to keep up. It's just because there's a different component going on. And then puberty happens. And then all of the coping skills we had before puberty are getting altered. And so then we have to learn more coping skills, different things. We're going along, we're going along. Adulthood happens. Life changes happen. And then for women, menopause happens. And then things change again. Because all of the coping skills we had are now changed with hot flashes and hating the world and a whole bunch of other components. And so there is so much change where you think you're doing good and then something happens and then you have to evolve and change and move on from there. And for me, it's very hard to do anything fluidly. I am very much a robot. I don't do well. My husband had the toilet paper tilted sideways in the garage and I cried for an hour and a half and he did not understand my life in that moment. and I could not tell him that he altered my toilet paper schema. So coming in with, change is hard. As humans, change is hard. We like the homeostasis. And then things change. What I would tell you for my kiddo, for my kiddos, it's gotten easier as I have started to understand and change my parenting to that of one, of more compassion and curiosity than rigidity with, This is what 11-year-olds do, 12-year-olds do. This is what 10th graders look like. No, I had a conversation with him the other day when we're talking about classes for next year. I'm not going to do AP classes. I'm going to have free time. And I'm like, no, you're not. That's not going to happen. Fun story. And I got snappy. And a couple days later, I actually came back and I said, look, I need you to understand that I'm not snapping at you in that moment because you were doing anything wrong. Here is why my voice got to this level Here why my immediate response was this It not because I think you wrong It because I actually have so much want for you to be able to thrive in this level And this is where your smarts are aligning but we can work together to see what that is And he came to me and he was like that makes sense But I mean, he also said that he's like stuffing his face with Taco Bell. So I'm not entirely sure he was listening, but it's that in the past I would just be snappy and then that was it. But now as I've done kind of the work, it's, I might be snappy, but I need to come back and say, hey, let's talk about this. And that's what's changed in making life a little bit easier. So like now I get it. Like hormones play a big part in just body regulation and everything. And the only reason I'm laughing is because Dirty Skittles told me a story yesterday that made me laugh. Poor girl's going through perimenopause. And for me, I don't know what it was like. I had a hysterectomy in 2007. So one day I had hormones, the next day I didn't. So there wasn't a natural progression into that. But I can see just from her story, and it's not a bad thing, and I'm not laughing at the bad thing. It's just the way you told me the story. But I can see how hormones would play into what's happening with your brain and trying to get those around us to understand that the body's changing. And when my body changes, so do my reactions to the stimulus around me is affecting me. And so going back to what you were saying, Dr. Kristen, about writing stuff down, right? So these are the things that agitate me. What can I do different next to reevaluate how I want to react to that without wanting to punch somebody in the face? Taking it as a lesson. The, you know what? I got overwhelmed at this moment. This doesn't mean that I suck. It means what can I do next time to change? You're coming in with a solution-focused therapeutic statement of what can I do next time? Here's my lesson. Not I'm a failure. Or I'm not a giant bitch. One of the two. It happens to all of us, right? Even for me, when I had my hysterectomy, like one day I had hormones, next day I didn't. I went on six months of plant-based hormones because I did. I turned into an automatic bitch. My wife was like, who the fuck are you? I would like the old Gretchen back because you suck. So like that for me was a learning lesson. And for me, I don't have ADHD and I'm not autistic, but it was something that I learned for myself. And just working with dirty skills and not working with her, but being best friends. Like we know each other so well. And like I can give her shit about things that other people really wouldn't give her shit about, but we learn from each other. And I'm learning so much from you about like how I can talk differently to people and recognize their resilience of just showing up every day because I think that your brains are like going a million miles an hour, right? And sometimes like social situations are very hard for both of you. And for me, we went to a restaurant last night. My wife was sitting at the table and I was just talking to everybody. Listen, I was driving all the tables. I'm hyper extroverted right now. Not quite sure what's going on with that. But she was just like laughing and she was sitting at the table by herself and she's, are you done socializing? I'm like, I'm good. But you know, I live in a really small community. Don't get out of the house a whole lot because what? That's right, it's winter. But that's what gets, that's what brings me joy is being able to talk to people, share my life, share successes, things like that, but still incredibly humble about it. And do both of you guys find like when somebody gives you praise or someone that, or you get called out on something, good or bad. Do you guys just curl back into your whole... I'm just trying to figure out how that happens with people that have neuro-spicy brains. I do. I do. And my face gives it away. My facial expressions always tell what I'm feeling because I'll get complimented on something or a shout out. And I'm like, what? Seen that face before? Don't look at me. Nobody look over here. I'm fine. I have been able to practice my facial expressions. So when it happens, typically for compliments or things, you have a shout out to something. It's cool. Like, here's my face. I've practiced. What? Oh, it's a valid wrong. Sorry. That's the worst. When you inhale. It's happened to me. Sorry. One time I was in a public restroom and I was getting ready for work, right? This is when I was in my chef days. and I'm like leaning into the mirror. I don't know what I was doing. And all of a sudden I like, I inhaled my saliva and I just like, I just start coughing like I was dying and there was a girl behind me and she just gave me like this look like, and I'm like, I inhaled my spit and she just was like, and left and I was like, oh God. Yeah. I feel like that was just the perfect time for me to have that happen. So I can tell you when things go weird, I just, I've learned to go with the flow of the, Yep, something weird just happened. It's going to be a fun story later on. Or if it's a critique, I'm much better at taking the critiques and saying, cool, let me sit with that. Let me see if I can mold it into how it fits in my life. And if it doesn't, then it's not going to be of use to me. If it's something that someone else is requesting because it makes their life easier, I will take it under consideration. But if it is coming at the alteration of me, myself, and I mean, it might be like, can we lower our octaves like 30% because we are really exuberantly talking. I'm like, okay, I could do that. When you were giving your example of you being this glorious extrovert, it makes me think, did you, did y'all ever see the movie, I think it's Men in Black? Yes. Where the alien dude comes and he's wearing like a human skin suit and he's trying to walk around and pretend to be human. That's how I envision myself every day from my entire upbringing. It's been, I feel foreign wearing a human skin suit. And so it's, I remember watching Friends when I was growing up and I would mimic what they would say, their reflection in their voices, the way an eyebrow would raise, because that was what was interesting. That would be what got laughs. And so for me, a lot of how I live my life is in scripts. And it's just, I think of my brain as a giant place with filing cabinets. Okay, I know we're talking about autism. Let me pull out my scripts to talk about autism. We can be this. here's this skin suit that we're going to wear today. Here are these words to use. And I can go in with all of the words for these kind of components in these stories and talk, but it's because I have it built up in my brain. If it's coming in and someone throws me off, you'll just see my brain buffer and just as I'm trying to figure out what to say. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. What filing cabinet is this? How do I prepare myself for this situation? Yeah, that makes sense. So as you were growing up, and like you said, you hadn't been diagnosed until you were in your 40s. Do you think your autism and ADHD played into things that happened to you when you were a kid? 100%. 100%. And it was when I got my diagnosis, I told my mom, she goes, oh, thank God I didn't. It wasn't me that messed you up. I'm like, I didn't realize you thought I was messed up. Hey. that it was now in understanding that I could look at her non-spicy human raising this undiagnosed just goober of a child and like she's really into Native Americans right now. That's okay. Let's get her a rock to ground corn. I did outside. Like I was really into it at 10 years old and my family had no idea what to do and they're like that's not really normal. Okay. They didn't really ever tell me that I was wrong, but we didn't get anything looked into. So school was harder. I was the kid who would do the homework, but I wouldn't turn it in. Why? No idea. It was done. And so I just... Growing up was probably academically a lot harder than it needed to be which is funny because now I got a bachelor two masters and my doctorate but it was not Some people talk about oh school was really easy. It came really easy. I did these things. No, it was hard. Math sucked. It was not easy. I can't count cards. I can't do anything savant. Ready? Instead of taking tests, they let me make projects, which was awesome. And I was even not having diagnosis. The teachers just saw that my brain worked different. Kudos to those teachers. Yeah. Yeah. And kudos to your parents too, for not giving up on you and just letting you be a kid, right? Even though like you had these idiosyncrasies that they didn't quite understand. And I get that. And I love now that there's more resources for parents and families and caregivers and friends and even companies. Because think about the sheer number of people that are in the workforce now. As adults that have now found out they're autistic and have ADHD, and my hope is that companies are turning inwards and trying to help those employees feel like they are part of the team and that they're not outliers and that they're being inclusive. That's part of what I do with my company is making sure that companies are doing that and making sure that they have good mental wellness going on in their companies. And you see it more and more in like small to medium-sized companies because they don't really have the funding to bring in experts or anything like that. And so part of what I do is I do a 52-week series of articles on LinkedIn, just really talking to small and medium-sized businesses about things that they can do to make people feel included for all communities, whether they're somebody that's transitioning from male to female or female to male, people that have ADHD, people that are autistic, and just really making sure that they're taking care of those employees. Some of your smartest employees are those that are autistic or have ADHD. And a lot of times they feel left out. So it's really depressing. I think there was, I cannot remember where that article came out, but they had done research and they showed that neurodivergent employees are upwards of 140% more productive than their neurotypical counterparts when they are in an environment in which they feel supported. And I actually did a talk at the Kennedy Krieger Institute last year, which they're super cool. They are Johns Hopkins, but for autism. And so they're awesome. And I got to talk to them about accommodations that workplaces can utilize for Neurospecy employees. And it's small things like let's send out a meeting agenda. You can have it ahead of time. We know we can do that anticipatory anxiety. We can look at it and understand what we're going to be talking about. We are going to have the meeting recorded. We can have it transcribed. Just small little things that say, I see you who are worthy of being here. Just because you want to read the transcript doesn't mean that you're not doing the job. So it's coming in with these companies because spicy kids turn into spicy adults. And I love spicy brains. I think they're pretty epic. Like we can do so many cool things. And going back to an earlier point you had, it's like when you don't learn this young and then later on in life, you're learning this about yourself. I wish that we would have had that opportunity younger. Yeah. I'm just curious what could have been easier, could have been harder, but how different life would have been having tools at an earlier age. A lot of times when we get diagnosed later on in life, you get this gauntlet of emotions that go through you. Sadness, frustration, unhappiness. Just of if I had been seen, what would have life looked like? And I think there's power in honoring those emotions, but not living in them. Because if we're living in the emotions of the past, it's not helping us to flourish in today. I have learned so much today. I know. This is like the perfect conversation. I love that you've given us so many resources, right, for just the community outside. And another question I had, too, is there's a group of individuals out there right now that are dealing with either ADHD or autism and are now transforming from either male to female or female to male. Also, on top of everything else, they have gender dysmorphia, right? And how can we, as a world, how can we be kinder to them? How can we talk nicer to them? How can we make them feel seen? I love this podcast so much. My first answer is don't be an asshole. Just in general, people are people. They're cool. I don't care what dangly bits or not dangly bits you have. That's okay. It's every human has an interesting story. Every human is amazing at something that I am not. And I get to learn from that. And so coming in with just this happiness for life of this is so cool. You can teach me about chickens laying eggs. You can teach me about yarn. I can learn about what it feels feeling different in my body in a different gender because I feel wildly uncomfortable within my body all the time, but I still feel female. So I can't experience life the way that they can, but they can tell me about it. And I can be like, it's not my job. It's not my job to tell you how to feel or not feel. Yeah. And like you said, just don't be an asshole. And I think the other thing that I struggle with is that I do, I have friends that have that are artistic, ADHD, OCD. Like, I know you have those diagnoses. Don't keep reminding me that you have them. And how do you have that conversation with somebody without being a dick? Because for me, I don't want to be a dick, But I do want to understand what you're going through and how can I help without telling you to stop telling me that you have ADHD and you're autistic? Because if you're around that group of friends, they already know. And so what can I do to help them and also help myself so I don't get so frustrated? Let me take that and expand it further just into mental health diagnoses in general. If someone is perpetually leaning on, well, I'm depressed. Well, I'm bipolar. Well, I'm borderline. Well, I'm autistic. Well, I'm ADHD. You can have a diagnosis, but that is not all of who you are. And there is a difference in having a diagnosis and leaning on it. And so it's coming in and depending on the friend, telling them like my spice of brain is one that please tell me things straightforward. You're like, you talk about autism a lot. Okay. Or I need you to stop talking about autism. or saying this is why it's happening. And chances are, if I'm sitting here saying, well, I have autism and this is why I do this and this and this. There's a chance I might be wanting to explain why my actions are coming in this way. But that also could be, I can't do this. I'm autistic. It's no, no, nay, nay. That doesn't, having a diagnosis does not mean you're not able to do things. It means you might have to do it differently. That's what I was wondering. I was hearing your question, your ex. I was wondering if they were telling you that because they were processing whatever and so they felt like they had to tell you or are they leaning on it? And that's something I need to wrap my head around because for everybody that knows me, I have a really good heart. I want to help everybody out. I want to be a good person. But at the same time, I want people to realize that they have their strengths too. And just because you have these diagnoses, you're also strong in other areas and maybe not lean so much into the diagnosis that you've been given, but lean into your strengths. Lean into all the good you put out into this world. And yeah, we all struggle. I struggle when I'm not autistic, but I do have ADHD horribly. And at 62 years old, not the funnest thing in the world. But I lean into that, right? Because that makes me stronger in other areas. Like my organizational skills have never been so good don ask me if my office is clean because that is a whole nother story because that shit never going to happen As long as we made a path so nobody dies we good But I need to learn for myself. And God, I appreciate this conversation so much. It's a conversation I needed to hear. And for somebody who's so passionate about this community and really helping individuals, like you've already turned me into a better person. That's just, our brains are so cool. And this is what I love about the podcast community and world is messages get to go further. And in podcasts like this, we get to come in power and say, you are strong. You might not know it. Your organizational skills might be on point, but showering is really hard. Okay. Okay. I can do complex, great things. Brushing my teeth is harder. Okay. That's cool. That means we work on things in the small areas and know that this is something to work on. But that doesn't mean that you can't do these epically amazing things. I learned so much. Okay, I'm going to be quiet now because like this week, I asked a ton of questions. So it was great. It was great. I don't want to be the one talking all the time. So I loved it. I am curious. I normally ask the same questions at the end of every episode, but I want to switch it just a little bit. It's pretty much the same thing. But I always ask if you can go back to a younger version of yourself. what would you say for advice and how old are you? And I want to maybe gear it towards if you were diagnosed later on in life, if you can go back to that younger version to give advice specifically around your diagnosis. Would you have told your younger version anything about autism, ADHD, anything like that? I would. If I could go back into different segments, chunks of life, if I go back to the 10 to 13 year old me, I'd say you will find friends. You're going to have people who know you just as you are. And that's really cool. If I could go back to 20-year-old me, be like, hey, guess what? We've got some spiciness in our brain. Start researching now. Who knows? I may have given myself a leg up, but I wouldn't change anything. It would just come in with everything's going to be all right. Life ends up really cool. I love that. I love that. What has been the biggest challenge with this that you've had so far? Being married. Why? Being married to a man who's not autistic because we're coming in with he, if I think of it as humans taking steps, he steps forward with ADHD. I step forward with autism. And so together we are different wavelengths. And so he'll come in and make this giant hodgepodge of a chaotic mess because he needs to see all of the things. And I'm over here saying, my space has been encroached upon. This is not okay. Things are out of place. I'm having a moment. And we are having to come in together and meld into this world of he's allowed to have things. And I'm still going to panic a little bit because the sewing machine is out and there is chunks of scraps everywhere. My cats have stolen something and it's messy. So we've learned and it's an ever evolving work in progress. The kitchen counters need to be more cleaned off for me to have an easier day. Carr tends to more have his collection of hobbies, but counters need to be, they cannot be the collection of hobbies or I'm going to cry and I don't know that I'm crying because I'm upset with that literally my life I'm like dude I hate clutter hate clutter and my husband needs to see everything literally right now our biggest like tug of war is tea so we as a family like to have a cup of tea every night but he means he means the teapot always on the counter and all the teas that he likes always on the counter. And I'm like, but I made, I call it the two-turn tea table. And it is a little turntable full of different types of tea. I was like, I have that. So you put it in there and then it has to go in the far right cabinet with the door closed. I don't ever have to see it. And then the tea kettle has its own turntable and it has to go under here and we will battle. I'll put it all away. And then he tries to leave it out again. And I'm like, no, it's walking in and a drawer has been pulled open and not shut. Or a kitchen cabinet is open and then their brain just squirrels out and does something else. And I walk in and I have not made the mess, but now there's open cabinets. And immediately life is... Or my husband bought a square plate, which messed up my circle plate organizational scheme. And he bought it just to mess with me. I used to be that person. Because he's a butthole. I used to be that person, my cousin. Because, I mean, I swear she has OCD and I would do things just to mess with her all the time. And then I felt really bad. But no, see, this is nice. I feel heard. I feel heard. I feel seen. You feel heard. You feel seen, right? Yes. So like I have my couple of questions. So my first one is, if your anxiety had a theme song, what is it and why? It's the, I get overwhelmed so easily. It's the, yep, I am overwhelmed easily. I love that. I so love that. What's your favorite word? My favorite word ebbs and flows. This year, my favorite word is less because it's my word of the year. It's my year of less. And so it is, I want to buy less. I want to work less. I want to do, I want to have less things in my house. So this year, my favorite word is less. I like that. I like that a lot. And what's your least favorite word? I don't know that I have a least favorite word. I think words are phenomenal. What about wasps? Ooh, mine is wasps. Ooh, y'all are adding in good ones now. I don't like them. See, I think I just like them all. I think I'm like, words are fun. Let's play Scrabble. Yeah, we could play podcast Scrabble. I love that so much. How can our listeners find you, get more information from you, like the whole nine yards? I have a couple different ways. I'm across social media in different like TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. I don't have as many videos on there. As of recently, I got really overwhelmed. I'm like, I need to take a break. And so it's and take a break. But you can find me, I think it's Dr. Kristen, or D-R Kristen. And then it usually pops up like, the blonde haired human with the multicolored hair. And that's me. I'm also, I have a website. It's EmpowerMind Solutions, LLC, which a very long mouthful to say. I didn't realize in creating a company that the longer the name, the harder it is to remember. But here we are. And I think if you look up Dr. Kristen Williamson on Amazon, You can find all of my workbooks. And eventually in 2026, I'm actually having a book come out where I think I have went and took 400 plus different journals for women with neurodivergency. And I've just got this book from puberty to menopause and just what life looks like in an empowering and strength-based form because we're pretty cool. I love that. This has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today. I learned a lot. And I learned I'm not a dick. So we're good. And I learned I am spicy, but it's okay. I'm just so grateful y'all allowed me to be here. I love just telling the world that they can be who they are and that's enough. Like you don't have to dull your light to make other people shine brighter. You warmed my heart. I love you so much. Absolutely. Hi, y'all. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I'm G-Rex. And I'm Dirty Skittles. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. We'd love to listen to your feedback. We can't do this without you guys. It's okay to be not okay. Just make sure you're talking to someone. Thank you.