EP4 - Were You Her Therapist

A text says, you're on my mind. A bouquet from 1-800-Flowers says, you're my everything. Heartfelt moments belong in the real world. Not just your phone. For 50 years, 1-800-Flowers has helped millions of people make memories that'll last a lifetime, with gifts they'll cherish forever. They're expertly curated arrangements and gift baskets shipped nationwide with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Don't wait for the next big moment. Make it. When you visit 1-800-Flowers.com slash podcast, that's 1-800-Flowers.com slash podcast. Today's episode mentions suicide. If you are having suicidal thoughts, please know you are not alone and help is available. In the US, dial 988, where you'll have access to free one-on-one counselors who are there to provide compassionate support. MUSIC Welcome back to Beth's Dead. This is Episode 4. I'm Monica Padman and I'm here with Elizabeth Lame and Andy Rosen. Hello. OK, so last week we left off hearing the email you got from Anders and then also Beth's brother Jason, letting you know that Beth had passed away. Right. OK, so that's really heavy. I got that email and I was devastated. I mean, obviously. And Andy, you remember very clearly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I was taking a nap or something and you came in, I mean, freaking out. I was like, what's going on and you been showing the email? Were you confused because you didn't really know? It was confusing in two ways. One, I wasn't fully in the loop on everything happening. And two, if I'm honest, your reaction was really intense, which I didn't know how to interpret either. It was just kind of like quickly trying to figure out what was going on sort of. Right. And it didn't, the math didn't quite add up to me. It's obviously super upsetting to hear anybody try to commit suicide. Yeah. You didn't know the layers. I did not know the layers at all. That's probably the first time you told me, like, oh, no, I've been talking to her. And I could tell that you felt this responsibility. Yeah. So I was getting clued in right then. And it also was like the last few that I had heard from her seemed like she was doing well. And then I didn't heard from her in a few days. And to get that, it just felt like a gut punch. Yeah. I responded to Anders. You did. Oh, it's sad. You said, Anders, what? No, no, no, no, no. I'm beside myself. Is this true? I'm so horrified. Last message I exchanged with Beth was of hope. I don't believe this. Did the brother email you or call? Do you respond to an email to Beth's account? I don't know what to do. This can't be. Would you share with me what the brother's message said? I'm hysterical. I wish I had realized. But I want to go to when you got the email. At the time I got the email, I had been working on a pilot with Tammy Sager, who is, I think, the world's greatest comedy writer, but not your mentor. My mentor. Don't get it twisted. Dear friend, and she and I had sold this pilot. Actually, it was called Totally Lame. It was based on Totally Married, our podcast. And we were taking a break. And I went and checked my emails and I saw that. And I freaked out and went to talk to Andy. And I came back and I think I sent that email to Anders. And then she got back on with me. And she also was a fan of the podcast, and had listened from the very beginning, and had heard all of these questions and answers over the last few months. And I told her what had happened. And her instinct was, this seems weird. And it was kind of a paradigm shift for me. Like, oh, wait, could this be weird? Tammy pointed out that it was a little bit odd for a brother's first instinct to be, I'm going to go get into my sister's email. The first thing I did after Tammy said this is weird is I looked up Beth's PayPal account address and saw that it didn't match what I thought it would be. So I Google image searched that. And it was this like, you know, a family two story modest house, but like suburban. And I found that odd because I thought she had lived in an apartment. I thought she had a roommate. I don't know. It just didn't match up. So that was the first thing. And then Andy and our web people were like, we're going to look up her IP address. We had every comment on our website came with an IP address as they do. And you can look them up and they show where like the thing pinged from what tower. So you can place someone pretty close to. That's not exactly how it works. OK. That looks here. Your IP address, every connection to the internet has its own IP address. So it's not like pinging off towers or anything. So it's like this building here. We're on an IP address, like every modem, I think. Oh, I think. So basically, it's like your stamp of where the communication came from. Who's using internet where they are, if that makes sense? Yes. So I think it was your idea was to we should look up her IP address. Are the IP addresses on the back end and our web people were like, yes, if you log in this way, you can see everyone's IP address. And so Andy clicked on best IP address. Yeah, they were like hyperlinks next to the comments. So it was really easy. You click on the IP address next to the person's name. And then it brought up all the comments that that person had made from that IP address. And to our total fucking horror and disbelief, that same IP address also brought up comments from Natasha, from Anders, from Frank, and from a few other characters. I mean, it was a true horror film moment. And I think especially for me who had formed such deep relationships, that these were all one person. And at this moment in time, when we're doing this, we're quickly like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what the fuck? Beth has another IP address. We're clicking that one too, and it's revealing other people. So we whittle it down to like three IP addresses. And so we're scrambling to figure this out. And while we're doing that, Elizabeth, I mean, is like white. And the thing that stands out to me is you saying to me, you have no idea how much time I've put into these people. Like that was the first time she ever kind of revealed to me. Like that was the first moment I knew how big of a deal this was to her. Right. Moving forward from there is when I started learning about the like behind the scenes interactions. Everything you've just learned. Yeah, not only this is so creepy that it's multiple people, but it's these people. These people you've been talking to for a year. More than a year. Yes. Yeah. This person that we don't know really covered their bases. And in a way too that I think we couldn't even process you more so than me. I'm sure we're more in shock, but also us just being like, how many people actually is it, right? Like we, we in this moment are figuring out, okay, what we have seven, eight, nine people, but we're like, is it? Does anyone listen to our podcast? Truly, our stats way off in this one person. My first thought was, is this Natasha? Why would she top of mind? Because as I said earlier, she did stand out to me as like a super fan who I knew kind of to keep at arm's length because she was such a huge fan and seemed so involved. And I felt with her, I didn't feel this with Beth. I felt with Natasha that like if I had given her too much, she would just take and take you know what I mean? Like it would have become a non-stop correspondence. And so my first thought was, oh my God, is Natasha. And also is Beth okay? Like I still hadn't even stepped out of the web. Right. Like they're all still real to you. Yes. I quickly jumped to bullshit. I'm on team. This is fucked up and there's no one that tried to commit suicide. I'm that voice in the conversation and I think Tammy is that voice too. Then it was like, who is this person? And that was its own journey to figuring out who the person was. At what point were you convinced that like Beth didn't try to commit suicide? I think pretty quickly because I think so we got this email August 6th. And then we have evidence that you and I Andy had forwarded stuff to our web designer Andrea at Duck Brigade. And I think once we started that, you and I both knew what we knew was one person was playing the role of all of these other listeners. We realized so that one PayPal address we'd gotten donations from the same address, different PayPal accounts before. Same physical address? Yes. But scared me the most in that moment was just the sheer volume and time and emotional energy. I'd spent on that and that someone would put me in this position of feeling partially responsible for the loss of a human life. And my gut instinct was, oh my God, I have talked about my kids on the podcast in a way that now feels reckless. I used to post my kids on Instagram, I wiped them from Instagram. I had Andy get a locksmith to change our locks, which like does not make sense. But I was so scrambled. I didn't know who this person was. I was like, has this person shown up as like a plumber to her home before? Right. And you know, I was going into like really crazy places. My first instinct was just fear because this person seemed very obsessed with us and me. And the only person that I'd interacted with who I thought could be that obsessed with us was Natasha. Right. That makes sense. But I went radio silent on website and email. And at that point in time, best brother started emailing very aggressively. Okay. Monday, August 8th. Elizabeth Lane. This is Beth's brother again. I'm going through her email, trying to take care of the things I can for her, but I'm trying to respect her privacy as much as possible. I couldn't help but notice those some of the things you had corresponded about. Are you Beth's counselor or therapist? I'm desperate to figure out what's happened here. It just doesn't make any sense to me or anyone else that I've talked to so far. If she is your patient or if you have any insight, please email me here or call me at. You can call 247. I am just desperate to know what has happened to my sister. So now that the cat's out of the bag and we can be a little bit more upfront about this, like hearing this, I'm like, how could you not piece together that I, that it was a podcast that she listened to, like going through all the emails that we just went through. And like a quick Google search of me would have given him the information. Now I'm starting to see like that whoever this is is starting to kind of panic a little bit and it's getting a little sloppy. Sure. We're also applying all of our attention to this. This takes over our lives. Yes. You feel totally unsafe. Yes. Yeah, it's all we're thinking about and it's all we're thinking about a very busy time for both of us. And we have these two little kids, but we are like stressed out, freaked out and we're like watching this like a hawk. Support for Beth's dead comes from row. Row offers the first FDA approved GLP1 pill for weight loss at the lowest cost around. The new GLP1 pill has the same weight loss ingredient as the shot impacts comparable results to the shot. It's one daily pill for fewer cravings and feeling fuller with an innovative new formula clinically proven to maximize weight loss. Now I have been on a GLP1 for almost a year and I have felt so many benefits. I'm actually not even on it for weight loss, but you can see overall health benefits across the board. I see better lab numbers, more energy and honestly just new levels of confidence and there are benefits that go beyond the scale. And row is offering such a low cost for this pill. 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I remember seeing mine and thinking, okay, well, I guess this is starting and it's never just the color, the gray hair actually feels different. It's coarser, it's a little wiry. They stand out from the rest of your hair. If you haven't had this moment yet, it does show up for all of us. But here's the interesting part. What if you could actually slow them down and keep your natural color longer while also getting thicker, fuller, shinier hair? That's where array comes in. Array has revolutionized the way we think about gray hair. Their products are clinically proven to slow gray growth, support repigmentation and improved thickness and fullness in as little as three to six months with consistent usage. I've been using the system myself and I have genuinely noticed a difference. My hair is feeling healthier overall and here's how it works. Array targets gray's from both the inside and the outside. 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I hate protein shakes like I hate them. They're chalky. They make me feel weirdly full and they taste like fake dessert. And I always end up buying one, trying it once, and then never touching it again. So when I tried grams, I was pretty skeptical. And honestly, if you didn't tell me it was protein, I would just think it was a delicious drink. I totally agree. It's light and clear. It's more like a lemonade or a peach tea than I would say it than a shake. Yes. I'll either drink it in the morning or sometimes during that 3 p.m. slump when you just need a little something. I'll drink grams or when I want something that actually works as a snack, but doesn't feel heavy. I just shake it with water, add ice and that's it. No blender, no mess. And that's Monica. It's the part that surprised me. One scoop has 20 grams of protein and only 80 calories. It's filtered so it's super easy under stomach, which is why, for the first time, I've actually been consistent with protein. I'm not having to force it. Now grams were started by two women. Hello. They were clearly over protein built for gym routines instead of real life. They made something that actually works for busy days, sensitive stomachs, pregnancy, paramedicase, which speaks to me, all of it. And if you're on a GLP1, it makes getting protein and feel doable, not heavy. It's basically a protein for people who don't like protein. I drink it without even thinking about it. Get 43% off your intro order of grams at grams.co slash Monica. That's g-r-a-m-m-s dot c-o slash Monica. Support for Beth's Dead comes from Kachava. We all have wellness goals for the new year, and mine particularly, I think like a lot of us, are to get more protein and to get more fiber. There have been so many studies saying that protein and fiber are critical to our health and so I'm really trying to focus on getting more of those things. And Kachava has really helped with that. There's fiber, there's probiotics, there's enzymes, which all helps with digestion. There's protein and electrolytes, which is great for strength. There's five key vitamins and minerals that are great for cognition and energy. It has it all. My personal favorite is the chocolate, but there are six flavors to choose from. Chocolate vanilla, chai, matcha, coconut, asai, and strawberry. It's so easy to just make a quick super food packed shake with recipes from Kachava Kitchen. Kachava provides clean nutrition to fuel wherever your day takes you. No fillers, no nonsense. No artificial flavors, colors or sweeteners, non-GMO, no soy, no animal products, no gluten, and no preservatives. You can just do two scoops. It provides 25 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens, and so much more. Stick with your wellness goals. Go to kachava.com and use code Beth for 15% off. That's kachava.kacva.com code Beth BETH. And did you guys continue to podcast during this time? We did because this is one thing I will say, as you know, consistency and podcasting is so important. And actually, I feel like the first time we had coffee, I brought this up to you. I think that just being consistent puts you ahead of the curve in such a big way because people just, well, now things are different. But that's what I think is still a huge part of it. And so having started in 2010, and I mean, at this point, we had three, four podcasts going plus or jobs, plus two little kids, I actually think I only took one week off after having my kids. I mean, and I really prided myself in that. Like, we did not step away. And so we kept podcasting, but golly, it was hard and we felt so like exposed and vulnerable. And I'm sure if you go back and listen to those episodes. I'm so curious about that. Yeah, but there's a big difference. And also, you're still taking listener questions. Yeah. Yet you don't know if any of them are real. Here's what I will say about this person is they did a really good job of crafting these characters. I know. And so, and also the questions, as you heard me going, this is a good one. It's a thinker. Like, their questions were exciting. Anytime we got a question that seemed remotely interesting, yeah, we were worried it was this person. Okay. So you've been answering random, random, same, same person questions. Who knows how many? Yeah. And those are just the ones that left comments. I mean, there may have been many more before. I don't know. Yeah. So it made best pretty paranoid to keep podcasting and made us not trust the question. And Monica, you even know, because you're on our Patreon. Yes. We sometimes do these live streams and we'll like go back in time and read questions and re-give our advice on them. Yes. And recently, I mean, I was like, we can't even keep doing this now because every question we look at back in time, and he's like, it's bullshit. Yeah. I'm so paranoid. I think, yeah, my alarm goes off way too easily. It's not calibrated right because of this. But to answer your question, we did eventually have to stop. Yeah. Because it was just feeling way too weird. So like a year later, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And then you guys were gone for a really long time. Yeah. And then the Lord answered my prayers. You came back. Yeah. You came back for me with nobody's listening, right? Yeah. We really missed podcasting. And so we did come back. Yeah. Like, Moths to a flame. But a new format for the show. Yes. It feels a lot safer because it's just me and Andy talking like no one's listening. Yeah. And so having duped us in that way was tough. Yeah. Feeling really frightened because of someone spent so much time and energy to do this to us. But then the emails from Jason and then Natasha and Anders started to become a little bit unhinged on Tuesday. This is all escalating so far. I mean, these are all within like a week. Yeah. Bath emails. This is Jason again, just after 4 a.m. my amazing sister Beth passed away. We are all completely devastated. My only hope is that she reunited with our mother. Thank you all for the love and kindness you gave to my sister. And that was to you and Anders because Anders and responds to the group and says, I'm so sorry you guys. So at this point, you know that this is all the same person. Yeah. So they're basically seizing themselves. Exactly. That's wild. When they pulled that move, we were like pathetic. What a piece of shit. Yeah. Right? At the point, we were really angry that in that email especially, right? Yes. A responding to themselves. We were really upset. What is hard to remember is podcasting was not what it is today. Yes. At that time, because you know, you're worried that people are thinking, how could she not know this is so obvious? It's crazy. But no one was thinking like that at the time. Yeah. Catfishing, I think like that documentary had come out within a year or two before this. I don't quote me on that. But it was a relatively new thing and it was always one person. It was usually like kind of a romantic relationship. I'd never heard of it being multiple people. And I just lived in a naive podcast bubble. Like our fans were so amazing. We, our one fan, we know exactly, exactly, what if you found out it was me? Oh, that's, that was the end of this. Oh, my God. I know something crazy. So in preparation for this podcast, when I was making these binders, I was searching that IP addresses in the comments to pull out all of this person's comments to put in a separate document. And one of the IP addresses matched one of Andy's very best friends. And for just a moment, I emailed Andy and I was like, I'm, or I texted him, we don't email. I was like, I'm freaking out. Like, and it got in my head into a way. Now, by this point in time, obviously, we know exactly who this person is and we'll get into all of that. But I was like, is this Josh, you know, and I was so confused. Oh my God. And luckily our web, our web people like set us straight and we're like, no, that person just was in LA at that time. And that particular IP address was used from a cell phone. So it was like, oh, this IP address was just like the AT&T IP address on this particular day. And our web people could literally confirm that the person we end up finding it is was in LA that day too. So it was like, yeah, I think got it. Wasn't my buddy Josh. But it, it, it really threw us for a loop for a second. Now, okay, this is the type of thing that on serial when it was like the cell phone, pangs, and it's, it's stuff no one understands. I don't understand it. Yeah. I don't know how well you guys are obviously don't at all. So even when you say that, that makes me question, well, what if it's all these people and they had this, this situation because the, the more telling thing is typically the IP addresses aren't like the cell phone out tower ones. It is like the modem center in people's houses. And this all led to a person in a few very specific places. Okay. Okay. And yeah, so the anomaly was like when this person was in LA, then LA people popped up. But we were able to, it was very easy to like, sluice it because of the locations. Okay. You guys are pissed. Yes. You're pissed. Scared. You're scared. You're scared. You're scared. Okay. The next email from Jason, the subject fine is $1,000 question mark. Oh, boy. That's right. This is Beth's brother. Again, I'm trying to understand my sisters last month since her behavior essentially added up to an unintentional suicide. I'm also trying not to read her correspondence in order to leave her some privacy. Okay. Okay. Okay. But I'm in her email. Yeah. I saw, however, that Beth paid you $1,000. That has me concerned. That would have been a huge amount of money for Beth. So I really can't imagine what she bought from you. Clearly, I don't know you or what you do, but I feel like I need to know what she thought was worth so much during such a miserable time. Even if she purchased something illegal from you, I swear to God, I don't care. I just want to know, please contact me. Please all caps. Contact me within the next 24 hours. After that, I have to start making funeral arrangements. You can email me here or call me or text me. I thought I understood my sisters last week's until I saw this purchase. Please, I need to know what it was. Yeah. So this person starts really baiting me to call this number. And are you guys, like, I want to call the number? No. No. I'm like, I don't want anything. I want this person to go away. Yeah. And as these emails become more and more intense, like the more freaked out we get. Okay. Next email, I'm begging you, subject line, all caps. I don't understand. My sisters died. I don't know what a relationship to you was. Then I see that she gave you a thousand dollars. I tried contacting you every way I can think of. I even started a Twitter account just to contact you. I thought you were just not seeing these messages until you blocked my Twitter account. I don't know what the issue is, even a simple go to hell would tell me more than you have. For the last time, please contact me. I had just one question for you. My sister died scared and in pain and gave you what would have seemed like a fortune to her. Yet you're not willing to talk to me once. It's interesting having distance from this now, because in that moment we were so, obviously, so angry, scared and paranoid. Yeah. Now it is interesting to think that like, oh my God, this thing that they'd put so much time in for over a year, they're freaking out that it's over. They're pretty bad. They don't get to play with these puppet strings anymore. Yeah. A hundred percent. And also, I think freaking out as to why it ended. Because I did go radio silent right when we found out that she had attempted suicide and... Well, I think they know. That was a... I was just saying a big swing. That was a big swing that they took. It was. And it backfired. No, no, but I think they're wondering why it backfired. I don't think that they know at this point how we could have figured out that something was fishy. I mean, they're spiraling, naturally. And some sort of what's happening with you guys, but in a much... Right in this very moment, in a very bad way. And a much more devastating way for them. Yes. Yes. It's true. I mean, if we're gonna... Their lives work. It is. It's been told right out from under them. And of course, I, like, you know, it feels so horrific and the details of the emails of all of these people and their backstories and her mom has died. And as you pointed out, her name is Beth. Her name is Beth. Yeah. I mean, it feels so violating. Yes. Extremely violating. Yet, if I'm gonna step in this person's point of view, in some ways, I believe, and you know, this is just, I guess, what we do on the show, whether it's good or bad, but try to lend some compassion. What was happening to you was happening to this person. You were slowly getting sucked into a thing that was then far beyond. You had no control over it. And I would bet a similar thing was happening here, where it started with like, I'm gonna write a question in as a person, right? Oh, that's interesting. And that was fun and that gave that person something and then a year and a half later, here we are, right? I have zero, zero, zero compassion for this person. I will say revisiting this stuff with you guys. I have had moments where I'm kind of impressed, like just how intricate it all is. There is like an awe that I have that I would have never expected to feel, but zero compassion. Yeah. That's fair. Okay. So later that day, again, from Beth, what the hell subject line? I've been dying to know where my sister Beth gave you a thousand dollars. It just didn't make any sense to me since she was simultaneously ignoring her own well being to a fatal degree. My guess was that she had bought something from you. Since I wasn't getting any clarification from you, I made an exception and read the exchanges Beth had with you. I'm sorry, but now I'm upset. My sister donated a thousand dollars to you. You haven't even acknowledged her death. Beth evidently thought you were some kind of friend to her. You may be a nice person, but it's clear to me that she was wrong. Ignore what I said earlier. I have no desire to ever speak to you. Natasha also is sending you an email. I think Anders sent you a note about Beth's passing, right? It's so incredibly sad. Did he tell you that they have determined finally the cause of all this? It's you, Elizabeth. No, she doesn't say that. It somehow makes the whole thing worse. I can't help but feel that her fiance and his family are responsible for her death. But even though I only spoke to Beth by phone, I've been really shaken by her passing. I'm so sorry for all this regards Natasha. This kind of a tame email. Wait, Elizabeth, you responded. What? Really? On Monday, August 8th, while all this is happening, Natasha emails Elizabeth. I understand that Anders has told you what is happening with Beth. Correct? Very sad. I don't know if you've had any contact with her brother. So I apologize if I'm repeating things that you've heard already. Anders called her brother Jason this morning because he spent some time studying neurology at university. The outlook for Beth is not as bright as I had hoped, though she can speak a bit. Beth can't seem to process what other people. This is before you were told. Wow. Okay. Oh, Lord. Okay. This is before you were told shoes that died. And when did I respond to that? You responded. Oh, wow. This has all been so awful. Dot, dot, dot, wishing you all the best. I knew at that point. At that point you knew then Natasha says, and this is two days later, I think Anders said you can know about Beth's passing right. Got it. Yeah. Okay. So Natasha's in and out. Anders is in and out. Natasha, again, on August 11th, this is once you've gone silent. Elizabeth, I'm surprised to have not heard from you about this development. This makes me worried for you. Are you all right? You know, I have so many questions that I never want to post to this person, but like I would love to know the answers to. And one of them is was that donation made specifically so that this could be played later as a wait what she donated. Of course, it's adding more ties to you. Yeah. I think sometimes narcissists do this. Or they make you indebted to them. Right. Was it all calculated and like did they know the end when they started? Right. Or did it get out of hand? Was it just following with the wind blue and you know, I'm just I'm curious about that. Yeah, me too. There's so many unanswered questions. But also just to be clear, you guys do know who it is, right? Yeah. Like for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And figuring out who it is is kind of its own whole journey, which we'll get to. Who you say who it is. It's weird. I mean, now it even feels weird to saying, revealing who it is because like I'm getting freaked out. No, I'm like, I'm scared of him and he's still out there. But yeah, how about no names? Okay. We can avoid names, but is there anything about this person we can say? Yes. Okay. So he's a man. Living a full life is a family, a full-time job. He's older in the 60s. Professor. Professor. Yeah. I know. So yeah, he's actually, we were shocked to figure it out, but he's in a position of power and status and is a known figure. If you want to listen to all the best dead ad free, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts or on Patreon, where you can also chat with other listeners, watch live streams, get bonus episodes and more. That's at patreon.com slash best dead. Best dead is presented by armchair experts, Monica Padman and nobody's listening, right? It is produced and edited by Andy Rosen, Elizabeth Lane, and Monica Padman, additional engineering by Rob Hollis, the user can sound by Andy Rosen. Special thanks to Tammy Sager, our non-mentor mentor, and also Andrea Tamingos, our longtime web designer and sleuth from Duprigade.com.