"The Protagonist" (w/ Heather Gay)

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. We interrupt your regular programming for a very special announcement. Saturday nights are made for Mayhem with celebrity sabotage. Watch me, Joel Dummie, me, GK Barry, me, Sam Thompson and Judy Love. It's called some chaos. Do not move a muscle. This is no man. Fire back, reaction please. Watch out, there's a falling down. Sabotage! Celebrity sabotage starts Saturday 21st of March on ITV1 and ITVX. Hans, the GC here. I'm whispering because... As the Queen. Queen of social media? It's about time for my ASGMR series. So I'm recording this on my phone and then I'm going to use Canva to edit and upload it. Oh, sorry, babes. I'll make that a whisper when I edit it. Anyways, Canva makes social media edits so easy. I'll upload this in a minute. Canva, make everything iconic. How do I stop recording, Taryn? Hey, hey, hey, or should I say ho, ho, ho? It's me, Matt Rogers, and in the words of another Christmas icon, it's time. I'm back with my new nationwide tour, Matt Rogers' Christmas in December. Yes, it's time to remember when Christmas is. I'm hitting the road all of December with Henry Koporsky and the whole band performing my album Have You Heard of Christmas? along with a bunch of other little surprises. So if you're in LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, DC, New York City, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, or yes, Orlando, Florida, I want to see your gorgeous ass. Go to mattrogersofficial.com or head to my Instagram at Matt Rogers though and hit the link in my bio. Until then, stream the album, get your look together and get ready to deck the damn halls at a venue near you. Christmas in December, you in my heart. XOXO Santa Boy. Look, Matt. Oh, I see him. Oh, my. Bowen, look over there. Is that the culture? Yes. Oh, wow. Las Cultures. Us. Ding dong. Las Cultures. This calling. You really spaced out your syllables there. You know, I'm really thinking about the sounds I'm making and being so intentional about them because I'm actually reporting to you live from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Let's go. I'm in the home state of one Henry Koporsky and we are what? Rehearsing. For the Christmas in December tour. And celebrating Thanksgiving. You know, there's some celebrations. There definitely is breaking of bread. Oh, my favorite thing to break. Well, one of the best things you can break, to be honest. Well, the thing is you break and people are happy that it's broken. And that's a rule of culture number 67. Yes. Bread. See bread. That's the thing that you break and people are happy that it's broken. Because everyone's going to be full. The best thing to be outside of happy parentheses generally. Yes. I want to check in with my girl. Yes. Are you happy parentheses generally? I couldn't be happier. Happier. She ate that. Yeah. Let's talk about Wicked for Good. A film in which you star fifth billing. I said, let's get the Sagnom. Let me demystify some things for everybody. So the way billing works with these things is not at all commendate with someone's involvement, importance in the movie. Hard disagree. It is a thing that are the wonderful brokers, the people behind the scenes with these deals and these contracts, workout on your behalf. Trust and believe I was not out here fighting for billing over my incredible co-stars who inarguably do incredible, more important, more emotionally resonant work in this film. Let's just leave that there. And I'm sorry if that pisses people off. It's not my fault. It's just how the biz works. Okay. Can I say something? Can I say something here? Can I offer something back? I can confidently say you were my fifth favorite thing about the movie. So I'm fifth billed, but Michelle Yeo and Jeff Goldblum are whatever, like seventh and eighth, right? Everyone knows about the with and the with and the and are only given to people of great esteem. Basically, if you are and blank, what they're saying is thank you for daining to do this. No matter what movie you're in, if you are in the and Jeff Goldblum in this case spot, it means thank you king. Thank you king. It's actually different culture speak for thank you king. And your name means thank you king. Or and there's something very powerful about if it's your name on the credit and then what follows is as the cowardly lion. Oh, absolutely. Period. Or as Dr. Dillamond. Yes. And that's another cultural way of saying thank you king to Peter Dinklage and Coleman Dominga. 100%. I would say that with is also it's like the silver medal. Like if it's with Michelle Yeo, it's like thank you queen. Thank you queen. Thank you. Really, truly thank you. But also like you're in the cast, Jeff Goldblum occupies rarefied air as the and. And the only thing more valuable than that is of course, and well, yes. Okay. Which he has. And introducing. And introducing means we are ready to really say something. So here's what I'll say. There wasn't really that we didn't get that in this movie, but that doesn't mean there wasn't great esteem in the casting. And when I say when I saw you fifth build, I did the math and I said he was my fifth favorite thing. What were the what were the four? Number one. Number one. My favorite thing is the sex slanket. That is number one. My favorite thing and covering and the to get the PG rating, you know, they shot an alternate take where Jonathan Bailey's nipples were covered. Let me tell you something. We got no nipple. We got all slanket. I I log on and I'm like, what did you want? Did you want? Oh, quivering, quivering. Cynthia Arrivo is Alphaboch Green. Do you want her quivering with the towel in front of her dropping the towel? Like she's Kate Winslet in Titanic. No, you need this to be PG. It's wicked. You absolute freaks. You absolute freak. Also, you want to see thrust? This bitch has been living in a tree for the past 12 tie turns. She is cozy. She's comfortable. She's cold. She's out. There is no infrastructure. She's comfortable. She's comfortable in her skin. Green, cozy with who she is slanket. Bend down, bend out. Rewrite it beyond sight. No, I'm saying. And then she topped Viero, pegged his hole. You know what happened if Johnny had his way, rewrite the script. So that was number one. What an amazing premiere that was in New York. I was so happy you were there. Oh my God. That was that was the biggest premiere that I think I'll ever go to. It was really so major. I mean, they just they go for it because it is a spectacle. Wait, can I say my other top five thing? Yes, thanks to start. And then you give me a BTS fact about all of them. So one was a sex blanket. Two, Ariana Grande and Cynthia Arrivo at the doors. For good into the doors. I swear I think of you every single time. I really am powerless to that song and that moment because I just think of you, my best friend. My best friend. And I was sitting across the aisle from you at the premiere and we were sort of apart. And I was like, girl, who can say. And I was because I was a couple rows behind you across the aisle and I kept glancing over at you during that song. I didn't want to look back because I didn't want it to be too emotional. I didn't want to I didn't want to go. I was very emotional. That's what I know. I love you so much. I went out for the both of us. I love you so much. Okay. So that's the door. Oh, okay. BTS quick BTS fact about that. There's a lot of chat about how that was quote unquote improvised because that was said in this that was maybe in an interview and passing. So there's I guess that let's just clear something up. There's no way to like improvise that a shot like that, right? No, no, no. What I think what is maybe being lost is that it was found in rehearsals. And there's a couple of things get lost. So this is this is understandable. There's a kind of a sort of cost. So like Ari, Cynthia and John and Chiu and Alice Brooks, the amazing amazing cinematographer. I think they the four of them kind of found that together. And so I think somehow the word improvised got thrown in and that just that just really confused people. So that that's actual BTS. Well, all I saw about it was Ariana saying that there were certain parties and listen in filmmaking. There's always going to be certain parties. It's actually Rural Culture number nine. In filmmaking, there's always going to be certain parties and certain parties wanted to see and cut like after they saw a cut and it was fought for. And eventually it stayed in and I'm so happy they did because to me, that's that's the point. That's the story. That's kind of the point. You know what I mean? So that number three, a little bit of Ariana Grande peeking out during thank goodness, which I think is a conscious choice. Oh, yes. When all the confetti freezes in the air and Ariana as Glenda has her private moment, which by the way is one of my favorite things about the entire Wicked Score is that moment in thank goodness. And I thought that part was so nailed like and I loved that the moment got so personal that I think as a little bit of a nod, a little bit of Ariana Grande came out in the voice and the vocals. Yeah. Like it wasn't as resonant and performative and she killed that and I'll put her under my whole three like killed the entire movie. Killed the entire movie. Killed the entire movie from the second she heard she got the part until the second she finished it. What did she say? She was going to take such good care of her. And then number four, I'm going to guess no good deed. You know, no good deed. The fact that Cynthia can still you don't really get how far she is pushing it. Oh, and how I'm sorry, but no one else could do it like her because no one could take it to the vocal places it goes. That song is also so difficult to learn to sing. And I got to go with them again last night. We saw it again and we watched no good deed and we all just looked at each other and beamed because that song is so fucking good. And Cynthia, no one can sing it like that and hold that stardom on screen. No one 100% nobody and to end on a wide with the monkeys and and Kamako in the background. You're showing a lot of a lot of space holding space as it were in that shot and you can still hold the center. Yeah. And I think number five is me. Oh, sorry. Number five is you. No, you were you know, you wanted to slip something else in there. No, I know what number five is because I came here with my top five. I thought fifth build my top five. Fanny again. First of all, Mrs. Morrible. I know that was improvised. It was that was well that was improvised and no one we did not rehearse any of that. Trust and believe. Did she just accidentally say Mrs. Morrible? Bronwyn bless her heart. I fucking love you. She is incredible. Give it. Let's give it up for Bronwyn James, everybody. Ledgins. The Shenshen to your Fanny. The Shenshen to my face. I see you. I know what it's like to stand next to this bitch on his left at all times. And I I felt represented. We switch sides every now and then me and her sometimes sometimes. And you and I switch sides as well. You're just comfortable on the right. You just want to be on the right. Sure. I know this about you. We that was improvised. She said Mrs. Do you can I get you anything? Mrs. Morrible. And then of course I had to I had to I had to check this is Morrible. She's not married married. Shout out Fanny. Today on the date of this recording Sunday, November 23rd is the last performance of Kajae Kennedy, the Fanny in Wicked for the past three years on Broadway. I got to meet her at a tight tee a couple of years ago was so. It was amazing. The best place to meet is Titey. Fanny the Fanny. That's what I call Chamber 50. The best place for Fanny is to meet is Titey. I have never seen so many Fannies than when Titey is popping off. Oh, it's all Fannies. But it's it was I got to meet her then she's incredible. And then tonight is her last night on Broadway after three years of doing over three years of doing that role. So so amazing. So proud of you. What did it work? What a work ethic. What a schedule. What a talent. Love you Kajae. So so so cool. Well, congrats to the whole team because the movie was a huge fucking hit. Of course it was. Of course it was. I can't wait to see it be made into a theme park specifically in Epic Universe, which by the way is popping off filing permits. They're expanding, girl. They said they said let's make the. What are you seeing? I'm seeing things. Let's just say like, you know, I've had to go to my little coping mechanisms and you know that one of them is going on like the theme park blogs and checking construction. Yes, it's a soothing thing for me. I love this during a stressful time. And so a stressful but good time. But like, yes, stressful but good. Okay. So you're seeing the permits. Yeah. I mean, I think unfortunately they're going to go go kind of him on Harry Potter. Right. But we can we can hope for some stuff. I want to see Zelda get built and they have the rights. Well, I think they're going to wait for the movie to come out and then see it because and then the first the first look stills have been released and it looks very, very interesting. A lot of melding of different eras of Zelda. You've got Breath of the Wild Zelda. Like Zelda is in her Breath of the Wild gauge, but while Link is in his like Twilight Princess gauge, it's very, I think, I think we're going to see something very new. I guess Breath of the Wild would be what you'd want to see. Right. Yes, because it's the most recent and it kind of has the most feels the most cinematic in a lot of ways. Like it's just the scoring is very minimal. It's like, I think they can do really interesting things with a filmed like a very Japanese but still Western quote unquote like amalgamation. Like there's there's something just so profound about those games. Like I would really love to see that be adapted. But maybe maybe that's too much to ask because it is like a fucking 70 hour game. And how can you distill that to two hours? But we'll see. That is very exciting. What else in the culture? Well, I was just going to say like this world of Zelda that you describe. Yes. Would it be possible to be on a boat that flies like a flying boat? Could you know what I'm saying? Because I think that's what I want the Zelda ride to be. I want to fly a boat through Zelda. I'm trying to think. There is there are flying things in just so it's possible. Just say it's possible. It's very possible. You can fly on a Zonai device, which is it can be made into a boat. Do you think that if we dream it, it's possible? Really answer. Yes, but it depends. Oh, I hate trepidation with which you respond. But I asked a question I should have been prepared for mold answers. My trepidation is not can cannot be held against your your naivete. My God. That sentence has never been more true. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Did not feel good to say. I have thought of myself as naive for like all week. Isn't that such a gorgeous name? Why are you naive? OK, so I'm going to speak on something. OK. I was naive to think that I could just like post photos of Razor and I and that people wouldn't be like, oh, it's a hard launch. But I was just so excited that I met the most wonderful person that and I was just like posting about my life and like then suddenly it was like, oh, just Jared. So I guess I was naive because I wasn't exactly ready for like any attention in that regard because I didn't think people would care. You're not thinking about that. You're not thinking about the attention. No, I was not. And so but now that it is out there, I feel I do. I don't I recognize that some people listen to this podcast now as it's gotten a little bit more popular and are just like, oh, the guest or whatever. But like I do feel like we've had listeners for a very long time. And so I'm not just going to like not bring up. Of course. I'm definitely dating Fraser. He's definitely the best. The best. And Bowen's met him. I love him so much. And that seems to be the common refrain amongst all of our friends. And so that's that, you know, I adore the boy. He's wonderful. I love him. And also that will lead me to BravoCon because this is the Heather Gay episode. This is the Heather Gay episode. Our true true bestie. Our true bestie that we made in Cannes. But I do want to say just some Bravo things because this is because people from Bravo are listening. Yes, yes. Our Bravo fans Bravo, Halex. I ran into Melissa and Joe from Jersey. I think that Theresa thing is real. I think that that is genuinely a thing that they're doing like off camera. I don't know what changed. Congrats to Gea Judice. She won Special Forces. I want to say congratulations. That does not sound easy to me. The sentence blank one Special Forces. I'm on my feet. Climb impressed. I'm impressed. And I met Dolores. You met. Oh my God, you two are kindred spirits. And that is a wonderful woman, a wonderful person, a wonderful woman. She put her arm around me and she said, you get me. And I was like, let me tell you something. I do. I was like, you remind me of and she goes, I know all your aunts and cousins growing up. She's like, I understood when you said that, like you really get me. I was like, I'm walking arm in arm with Dolores. Miss Catania. She's a trader's winner. Dolores Catania. What was the thing that she and she did with what's her face? It's like she got Marge to like text Dolores while she was talking to. She texted Marge. Yeah, something Jackie had said. Marge texted Dolores something Jackie had said about her while Dolores was talking to Jackie. She said, she said, immediately it was like, you said this in the most like, oh, I wish I had that. And I will, if I am confronted in that situation, I will pull a Dolores. She is an icon. And I think I publicly on video sort of like gawked at you or just sort of balked at you saying that Dolores is your favorite housewife. I was like, Dolores and I do take that back. She makes total sense. I think you were just surprised. I was surprised. The thing is like, I'm so lived in with Dolores. I don't feel the need to be like mentioning all the time like, oh, and by the way, I love Dolores. Like Dolores is my family and sometimes family business is private business. Like sometimes family, and I'm going to raise my voice. Sometimes family business is private business. My God. You're living with Dolores. I am incredibly lived in. Yeah. It's a girl. I literally when I think of you two interacting, I see so much more than I think I see like a travel show. Yes. I think I see like I see real collapse between you and Angie. I was texting her as I was watching her fucking fingernail fall off or whatever it was on the yacht. Remember like when she was in she was in the costume and like she like slammed the door on her finger. I mean, yes, the pain. It felt I felt it. I felt the pain for we are connected. And I texted her. I was like, Angie, this is the hardest thing I've seen in a long time. Yeah. Watching you in pain like this is very hard on me. Yeah. And she was very touched by that. And I think we grew even closer. Honestly, she's such a warm angel. Just like Heather Gay. I will be on Watch What Happens Live with Heather Gay. The day after Gen Chah is released or the day before Gen Chah is released. The day before Gen Chah is getting released. And you know, it's going to be a topic and I feel like people are going to be watching that app because by the way, Salt Lake is fully on fire. Incredible. Fully on fire. Bronwyn is a favorite of mine. I love Bronwyn. Yeah. I have to say like this stuff with her husband is becoming really compelling to me. Absolutely. I'm just like, I'm just like, I can't, I need to find out where this goes. With Todd, with the mom, unfortunately that mom. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to comment on the situation too much because it's it really, especially after a BravoCon, it's like, these are people. No, 100%. And by the way, Bronwyn, one of the coolest people there. Of course. Definitely. Very chill vibe, always looked really great. Bronwyn was one of the coolest people there. And also all of the Salt Lake ladies are their tops 10s. I met Marisol. Oh, I mean, come on. I got to see some of my faves. I ran into Gina, my Long Island girl. Oh my God, you and Gina. Wendy being there was crazy. And now there's even more. They're they're singing. 40 credit cards, aliases. It's really tough. Not looking good. Not good. Not looking good. I feel for that. I feel for those children, most of all. I feel for both of them to it's. Well, this is our episode with Heather Gay. We recorded this a little while back. So we are, you know, Matt and I are not operating from a place of being totally caught up to the below deck crossover. What happened with Meredith and Brittany on the plane, obviously. But we are we do mostly just like shoot the breeze on can and just getting to know each other in the last few months and how special that's been. We do love Heather's one of us. You know what I mean? Love Heather. She's a good time. She's a good person. Like she's a good girl. She's just just yeah, we love and we think you're going to love this. You just said the words Meredith on the plane and I got so stressed, reaching, fumbling for my beta blockers like please. Anything to calm myself. That's the kind of television. We didn't even talk about pluralists next time. Let me catch up. Oh, wait. Say what you want to say. It is incredible. Lot of chatter about how it's like doing the Vince Gilligan thing of having an amazing pile. Oh, no, not not the Vince Gilligan thing, but it's just like the thing recently where it's like things have an incredible pilot and then they kind of like Peter off. But I'm like, that's just I think that's just TV. I disagree. I think Pluribus keeps the ball in the air in a very, very cool way. Like I'm really interested to see where this goes. Takes big swings. Yeah. One thing about it is that is not Vince Gilligan's reputation. No, I was going to say that is not his reputation. Breaking back did not like pop off with the pile and then simmer down. That I would argue got better as it went. It got so good I had to tap out because of stress. And also Better Call Saul, I mean, I was always told like, oh, Ray Seahorn, Ray Seahorn for Better Call Saul. And I was like, I just wish that Better Call Saul was something that gave me a little bit of a chub, but never. Sure. But Pluribus. Pluribus. Pluribus. Pluribus. It is very special. I'm really enjoying it. It has something to say about like a lot of things. You can really graft on a lot of things about the current day onto it. Anyway, enjoy it. We'll talk about it when you're caught up. Yeah, we'll see you in a few weeks. We'll check in again before the E-O-Y. For now, enjoy this episode with the one and only Heather Day. Thanks for the key deliverables, David. Now, who'd like to stay out all night? That's brilliant. So, OK, sales targets. Are we hitting the dance floor? There's more than one U. And with SpecsAvers 2 for 1, you can choose glasses for at least two U's from 70 pounds with standard single vision lenses. Nice moves, David. Book an appointment at SpecsAvers.co.uk. Conditions apply. Attention. Attention, rail travelers, platform paces, window gazers and armrest negotiators. Have you heard? The big rail fare freeze is here. Railfares have been frozen across England until March 2027 on standard class tickets, including off-peak, anytime and season tickets. For more information, visit nationalrail.co.uk slash faresfaries. Tease and seize, next week on supply. Look, man. Where? Oh, I see him. Wow. Oh, my. Bowen, look over there. Wow. Is that a culture? Yes. Goodness. Oh, yeah. Las Culturistas. Ding dong, Las Culturistas calling. It's a day that's been in the making. It's crazy to say like, well, we connected in the south of France. Dot, dot, dot. Meaningfully connected in the south of France at a convention. And then we. Camcon. At Camcon. Camcon. Camcon. I'm so sorry. A convention in Cam. That's right. And struck up a true genuine friendship. And then she shows up to the culture awards, slays it. Crushed. Crushed. They were the most. The biggest stars of the event. The biggest stars in the room. Well, yeah. Kristen Wiig comes in for rehearsal. She does her thing. She sees all these plays. Go, yeah, this person's here. This person's here. Freezes in her tracks. The Salt Lake City girls are coming. I said everyone except Whitney, who's. In Australia. Touring in Australia. Just to let you know how big the lives have become. They're touring in Australia. Touring in Australia at the awards here, there, everywhere. I mean, this is a historic episode. Correct me if I'm wrong. Our first in-person housewife. In-person. Yes. Yeah. Of a current housewife. Yeah, I think you're right. We've obviously had housewives on before. Yes. But this is breaking new ground. And I couldn't think of anyone better. No, because I think that we've been on record as saying that Salt Lake City is the girl. She's the one. John Oliver went on Cool Bear. And even kind of espoused to the audience the ways in which it is Shakespeare. Yeah, you start seeing it crossover. We actually were just in P-Town and we rewatched Season 2's. What we can only call what goes down in the beauty lab parking lot. It doesn't stay in the beauty lab parking lot. It's all over television and television history. But that is minute by minute, perfect television. I would agree. And it continued to be New York Times bestselling author of Bad Mormon and Good Time Girl, star of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, from the beginning very much that, and I think that everyone would agree, very much the protagonist of the show. Mogul, Beauty Lab and Laser. I'm dying to go. Oh, we're going. I want to get an Ulthera treatment there. And actually I want a little bit of a consult on the episode. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm not scared of it. I'm not scared of it either. Let's do it. This is... I say fearfully. This is our truly dear friend. We love her. The one, the only. Heather Gay! You're on Lust Colt. I am so honored to be on Lust Colt. Never thought this day would come. I knew it would come. But it does feel like a final, it's like an important that it's happening now. I think my phone is ringing. Well, what could that possibly be saying? Angie Ketzeneva's calling. Pick up the phone. Pick up the phone. Pick it up and put it on speaker. Put on speaker. Hey, Angie. Oh, she hung up. Damn. So wishy washy that one. Listen, she probably panicked. She's on right now. She probably realized that. And we want her on too for the phone call. Angie K is an incredible friend, an incredible housewife. I also recommended before the sizzle reel by me. And on my behalf. And I recommended her year after year until she finally was on there. Which was what? Season three they brought her in? Season two they revisited and she came on as a friend. Season three she was a friend and then full time. Yeah. Yeah. But you knew from the beginning. Yeah, she represents such a huge part of Utah and of Salt Lake City specifically. Yeah. The Greek community. And she has been exactly who she is since she was 15 years old. Sitting like reverse on her desk in Mr. Carter's math class, like with a scrunchie on top of her head, entertaining all of us, not knowing a single answer to a single math problem. And me being so glad I was in a lower math class so I could just have fun and make friends and still pull an A. But this was the same math class you're saying? Yeah. This is 10th grade Mr. Carter's math class. But then clear this up because wasn't the narrative on the show that you guys did not get along in high school? No. Am I getting mixed up? No, the narrative on the show is that she hurt my feelings by coming on the show as Lisa's friend and Jen's friend. And that is real. Yeah, that is salty. And so when she, so the first scene I had was like, I don't like her. And I'm not gonna accept her. And look where we are now. So then we like, but you know, what we, you know, the true nature of our relationship superseded kind of all of that show BS. Of course. That happened. It's a weird thing, you know? You can tell. I mean, it was a great moment. Like we were getting ready for the cultural awards. It was the night before and I was really wracked with nerves. And I remember Melissa and I went back to the hotel and I look across the lobby and there's Heather and Angie coming in from like, I don't know where you guys have been. You guys have been out the night before the cultural awards. Having so much fun. Tackling, laughing, looking like peas in a pod. And I was like, see, we haven't really seen this version of Angie and Heather on the show yet. And then to watch it in real life, I'm like, Oh, this is like a part of the show I want to see. Yeah. Like the two of you. I think you will see more and more of it, you know, because as like the friendships change and evolve and deepen, like we just are more comfortable, like not hurting other people's feelings by hanging out all the time. You know what I mean? Right, right. It's just, it's just the nature of it. Like it's deep into our relationship in a way that is really like important to someone at this phase of life for me. You know what I mean? Yeah. To have a high school friend. I've known her since she was 15 years old. Yeah. The picture you paint of her is so visceral, like sitting on the desk with the high pony, like not knowing math. In a green and white striped gap, rugby shirt collar popped. Rugby shirt. So she's so of the current time in that garb. Always. But see, like doesn't that, like I wonder how you do with that, you know, refraction of, oh my God, this is someone I've known since 15. Also, we're on TV together representing something about Salt Lake City. And there's just all this other stuff. And you guys just have to like perform a version of yourselves in a way that like is authentic, but also like you need to like draw some connection to like that younger self of you, like that younger version of you. Yeah, the younger version of us. And I think that's what makes it so fun and deepens our friendship is because you could put us at 7-Eleven, we're going to be doing the same bit. You know what I mean? Like when we're together, we're kind of, it's just that energy feeds off each other and like, I'm always performing. I've been performing since I was in kindergarten. You know what I mean? Like everything's more fun if it's a bit performative. Yeah, well, you got to amp it up. Thank you for bringing it up. Don't we know. I think you're putting the hard T on kindergarten. Well, kindergarten because I- No, it's the way it's spelled. Kindergarten. I am a wordsmith. I'm a best-selling author. And we know that about you. I don't know if anything. What did that feel like? Not only when it came out, but also like when Badmomber went on that bestseller list. That's crazy. Yeah. Badmombin the book has been for sure like the greatest jewel of all of this experience. And not only because it felt great to like write my story and process all of that. You know, it's so cathartic. It's so therapeutic. And it was just, it felt like an incredible privilege to revisit that and like kind of honor the girl I was then and like that I was in a position now to look at it with perspective because I tell people a lot. They're like, oh, when is he going to leave the church? Or when is she going to leave the church? And I'm like, it's not leaving the church is like, it's like leaving who you are. And the only way I've seen it happen for people like me is if something bigger comes along, something bigger comes along that offers you more than what you've always counted on. Because that's kind of, you know, ambition, the human spirit, the like the drive to exceed. And like housewives came along and offered me more than I ever anticipated I could have. And the book gave me the opportunity to explore that. And so the book has been my great connector. I meet people on the streets. It's what they love. They resonate with it. It's, we're doing a documentary about it. You know, it's like, it means so much to me. And I was posing for an ad where I had to hold it. And so I was just kind of like reading it, laughing out loud. I love every word. I'm so proud of it. And like, I hope it outlasts me for a hundred years. You know? Yes. I think your story, I think you talking about leaving the church being this like, developmentally important, the most important thing in any Mormon's development, former Mormon's development as they leave the church is kind of like your defining thing as like a boundary breaking person, right? It's like you broke, like the boundary was the church for a second. You broke out of that. Then you're, you know, in order to define that though, you have to get in the boundary first, right? And so like, whether that's like housewives, whenever you, you know, however long you do that, at some point you will break out of that boundary. But it requires getting in the boundary first and it requires sitting down to like write the book. You know what I mean? Like that is part of, that is the action of like breaking out of whatever box people have put you in. That's exactly how it happened. When I was first approached, I couldn't even read the email saying, write a book called that Mormon. I mean, I shut the laptop. It was just so, I would never have put my name, my face on anything derogatory about the church or about who I still wasn't sure I wasn't, you know? Yeah. And then just through time, like you start to like recognize that boundary becomes less oppressive and like less defining of your options in life, you know? And like now I couldn't think of a better title. You know, I wanted to be a good Mormon. It was very hard for me. Yes, yes. It's just an incredibly sticky title. You know what I mean? Like Bad Mormon is a title you just don't forget. Not only are you explicitly saying what it is, but also as you read it, you discover like it's about self judgment, which is like so much. And it's really, I guess it's kind of similar to coming out of the closet, right? For me, it felt that way. And then I think there's like a perception of like, oh, this person left the Mormon church. They left, you know, Scientology. They're coming out of the closet. They're leaving a marriage, et cetera. Good for them. That is when the work really starts, because that's when you find out who you are. And I feel like one of the really compelling things about the first really few seasons and ongoing of Salt Lake City Housewives is, of course, it's a fun because it's a housewives franchise in life, franchise. Franchise. And this housewives franchise, yum. It's in this bespoke place, Salt Lake City, which we hadn't really explored before. But what was the most compelling thing was, I think, especially you, you're watching you find out who you are. You know what I mean? Like seeing your limits, even with alcohol, with going out, with doing all these things, it's really very fascinating. And I wonder what you get watching it back. Well, in a way, I feel like I got back what I felt reality TV gave to me when I was living in such a culture bubble. You know, my bubble of culture was so intact that like it took a lot to penetrate that. And reality television, as a married woman, was the first time that I saw examples of women that weren't Mormon dutiful wives. Like that's how inclusive my world was. And I think that it's like watching people live their lives out vicariously. And I've said it a few times, but like there's that scene when Tamra's in the back of the limo with whatever. I don't remember his name now, because he's nameless, but, and she says, I want a divorce. Simon. Simon. She's like, I want a divorce. And like I heard her say that, it penetrated my heart. And I thought, oh my God, that would feel so good to say. I'm watching a woman say something that I could never say. I could never even think it. And like watching that just became a way to like, suddenly see beyond the world that you were expected to live in forever. But that was what kind of like chipped at the veneer for you, was reality television? Yeah, well, the whole point to get back, I forgot, I got so distracted is that like that gave a lot to me. So when I had the chance to be on the show and be a housewife, like I knew that like no matter ugly whatever was coming, like I was just going to put it all out there. Because I wanted to put out into the media that gave back to me. You know what I mean? Contribute to the forum that gave me what I needed. And what I needed was vulnerability, authenticity, and just women speaking unfiltered. And so on the show, I felt an obligation to the audience, to reality TV as a genre, and to, you know, my own opportunity. Like I'm here. I'm not going to like take it from someone else that's going to be real. You know what I mean? And I'm just going to do it. And that's like kind of the sacrifice. Like, humiliation abounds. Yeah. Well, I mean, of course, like putting yourself out there is quote unquote like humiliating in some fashion, right? Like even we experience a degree of that, but it's like to have the books plural, even good time girls are really sticky title. Like you can't forget it. Especially because of it popping up on the show. Popping up on the show. Episode one. But I think with the books, that is such a, I mean, it's the way I feel about the podcast in a concurrent sense of like a show like SNL, where it's like I'm in service of something else in an ensemble, and it's wonderful. Yeah. But then having the podcast with my best friend is like a fucking lifeline, because I'm like, oh, I get to like make sense of things with someone I love. One on one, we bring in people we love. And that is, I'm sure in some sense, more isolated what the book is probably. Yeah, absolutely. And it's in your zone, you know. But in terms of the genre of reality TV, like you know at this point that like the show and what you've contributed to it is the peak of it. Like it is the best reality TV maybe ever. I really thought a couple of times I should have been nominated for that. Are you saying Housewives of Salt Lake City in general? Or the whole Housewives of Salt Lake City? No, I think that it's like the Housewives of Salt Lake City, I think, stands out. And I don't know if you can really feel that, because probably you understand because there is like a buzz around it. And you can just see. But sometimes when it's you, you can't really tell what it is that's hitting, because there's this weird like dysphoria almost about like what is like actually in the world and what is my algorithm telling me. But like we're out here on the outside of it being like Salt Lake City feels different because it tells a new story. You know, a lot of the other Housewives franchise, I think that what the issue is with some of them is it feels like we're not telling new stories. Yeah. Sometimes it feels a little bit repetitive with Salt Lake City. It's like a couple of things. These are women that pass the ball where it's a true ensemble. And it feels like we're hearing new stories. And I think that that's like, like I don't recognize any of the stories told on this franchise. And gosh, they were even playing a game with Angie K and Demi Lovato on Watch What Happens Live where it was, you know, Angie or Demi picking like from each of the cast, like most likely to do this, this, that. And they just had all of your headshots and just even above the nose, above the nose. I was like, these are indelible people. They're iconic, recognizable women. And we salute the contribution. It's perfectly cast in a way that has to be sometimes frustrating when you want to rip the throats out of your cast members. Because you know that it's like a cast that kind of can't change. Like, sorry, Bravo. We've tried, you know, we can't. We've, you know, we all think that we can evolve and change. We all think we're improving and we just are exactly who we are. And there's so much comfort in that to me. You know, like I love people that are awful and people that are great. I love all people, you know, but I just like when they show up and I can know it to expect. Consistency is key. And I think Salt Lake City brings these consistent personalities because we're authentic to who we are. Yeah. I think my favorite moment from the premiere and we were, we were, we were commenting on this was when Whitney Rose admits that her business failed. And it's, it's that is because as a housewife, there's all this like modern expectation. And, you know, Salt Lake City housewives, I remember they did that book, like Not All Diamonds and Rose and Salt Lake Housewives isn't even in that because of how new it is in the grand scheme of things. Like it's this like post housewives housewives show where all of you come in and like are expected to not only hit the ground running as like entertaining pop culture figures, but also business people, you know, if you do it correctly, putting in air quotes, you have something outside the show for you. And I thought that her sharing that it did not go well, especially when such a huge part of her narrative when she was starting it was how badly it needed to succeed because Justin had lost his job at the time. Like I think that that was a really important moment because I do think you guys are at a point where it could go in the direction that is we know what we've got here. And so let's continue to produce it or we know what we've got here and what makes us special is the authenticity. And that felt like an authentic real moment of her being like, hi, I failed. Let's talk about it. Yeah. And Brittany, don't bring it up five minutes into the RV trip, you know, I mean, Brittany's being herself too. Everyone's being themselves. Exactly. Which is why it works. And I think that there we really something that's unique about Salt Lake City is that we really are all each other has like, and I don't know, I can only speak for myself, but being on the show doesn't have a lot of currency in our community. Like not at the grocery store, not at the mall, not amongst our closest friends and family, they really don't talk about it. They don't acknowledge it. Certainly with me, they don't talk about the book. You know, they don't talk about this. Like they just talk to you about your children and like innocuous things like probably with Whitney, it's soccer and with Lisa, it's Henry, you know what I mean? But they don't give us any currency for the fact that we are on this show that is such a hit and that has changed our lives so fundamentally. And I think part of that keeps us like, you know, tight and humble and I mean, humble, but tight. And it makes the show that much more important and our stories that much more cogent because it's, you know, it's all contained. Yeah. Cabri Dairy Milk bars are made to share, but how do you decide who gets what? If you spend ages looking for the TV remote, you get the most chunks. And if you were 100% without a doubt, not sitting on it, but definitely were. Sorry, you get less. Cabri made to share. Pick up a limited edition bar now. You have this memory of Angie Hypony, green rugby shirt. What is your memory of us going to be going forward as you go? Oh, I've known Mountain Bone for 15 years. Yeah, what's the image? Listen, guys, Cans Lions. We all can't remember a specific one because we were so Well, I mean, I can remember. Can I take a minute? I mean, I know mine. I'll say it. It's me. I remember I was over with a couple of the summer house people. I turn around, I see it's you sitting on a bench crying and Bowen is on his knees in front of you, clasping your hands like this. And you guys are having one of the most emotional moments in human kind history. And I was kneeling. I was kneeling. And you were talking about how it had been your first time in Cannes since your Mormon mission. And you were talking about that a lot during the press that we were all doing together. That's wild. That's wild. First of all, out of that, out of all places in the world, that's where they sent you as someone that's then supposed to be like well behaved. One of the horniest, most gorgeous places in the world. And then that you randomly for this thing later, years and years later, when your life is totally different, you're also sent there on a different mission, which is to tell your new life story. Yeah. Crazy. And that's like, I thought when I was there as a Mormon missionary, I thought I was of the world, you know, this worldly bilingual, you know, change maker. And I thought I could never be this happy because I was so indebted in the service of others. My testimony of the church was so strong. I was doing the Lord's work. I was ruining people's lives and it was for the right. You know what I mean? You were incredible Mormon. I was so, I thought I am, this is who I was born to be and I could never be happier. And at the same time, I was miserable and it was so hard and it was soul, you know, gutting. And I, to come back there now and feel like the same person, the same enthusiasm, the same ambition, the same zest for life and for the people, but to be there on terms that were authentic to me, it just felt like, how, how did I get this opportunity? And that's what I was weeping to bow in about. Yeah, yeah. It looks like it was. I'm here. I'm here. You're here. And who gets to do that? I mean, I think you were also just exhuming all of these things that maybe you had forgotten, but I remember you very distinctly telling me, while I was kneeling to you, you were like, I think that was when you were like, we would have to get like the church told us for these missions that you would go into people's houses and within one minute, be on your knees with them and pray. Like it had to be that. It's like the sales person. We trained, we trained, we trained, we had conferences where we trained, we'd walk up and say, if they opened the door to us and said, you know, these two beaming missionaries, you know, in T-shirts and full dresses, we have a message of hope and love for your family. Can we come in? If they said, come in, we grabbed their forearm and said, can we offer a prayer and knelt down within one minute or five? Was it one or five? Within one minute, within one minute, get on the ground. They said, because, and they said, like, most people, when you kneel, they're like going to kneel. That's just human nature. And most kind people in the world are never going to turn down a prayer. Sure. Offer us a prayer, throw us a prayer bone and then be on your way. But then you kneel down with them and you pray with them that they will be open to receive the message that you're about to give them. And it felt highly manipulative. But it's also at the same time. I mean, yes, just the intention is maybe manipulative. But then if you're just scribing, like just offering a prayer to someone, there is like, it's so dissonant. There is like, there is a kindness to that. Of course, there's a kindness and love, but like, why make them kneel? Why, why do it in a way that we know is a tactic to get us to stay there longer and to in effect shame them for turning us out? Because I'm sure that what they're arming you with is of course these skills. But what's behind it is the fact that you genuinely believe that what you're going to do is better their life. Change their life forever. Save their family. Yeah, that's, that's, that's you being indoctrinated in something. That's not you manipulating. It's simply, it's actually you really trying to help. And that's, and that's where that's why I find the church so fascinating and the culture that comes out of the church so fascinating. And the fact that I had three daughters that I was training to be that exact version of me. And now one's living on the Upper West Side of New York City. One's at University of Miami in a sorority. I don't even want to mention. No, you don't go to you. You're not a sorority girl at University of Miami and not raging. Exactly. And then I have my freshman daughter at Utampa and like none of my friends, kids have even left the state of Utah and a lot of them are married. So I have, I'm an anomaly in my neighborhood and in my community and Angie is one of my true friends from call from high school that is, I mean, think of that, you know, like everyone else we know is married with and some of them are grandparents already. So that's what you're saying. Like that's what tightens you. That's what humbles and tightens. There's not a lot of people like us in our community at all. Not a lot of women business owners, not a lot of women entrepreneurs. The highest brand you can get at our Nordstrom is Rag and Bone. Yeah, it's a good brand. I love Rag and Bone and I love citizens of humanity, but sometimes the audience wants us to show up in something more and we love our audience. Of course. I do want to ask about that too, because again, Salt Lake City being relatively new, even though it's in its 60s and it still feels like it was born after the creation of what a quote unquote, real housewife looks like is etc. What that image was born into, you know, television, television, watching communities heads. So when you show up and the nicest store in your Nordstrom rack is the Rag and Bone, which is really for men, right? Don't they really, they just want to make more, it's more. Yeah. So they weren't even helping you. Why so gendered, Matt? Why so gendered? No, what I'm saying is just like the opportunity, sure, but also expectation to be as glam as Erica Jane. Like what goes on there when like you collide with the other housewives? That has to be so intimidating. Of course, I'm talking about like girls trip, but also BravoCon and like Watch What Happens Live and just like, you know, showing up as a housewife. How did that feel? How are we interacting with that? Well, for me, it was like, I mean, I did everything in a stretchy Zara, every confessional's either stretchy Zara or Macy's or Dillard's, you know, prom 50% off for my first season. And that's like this set, the stage of life I was in also the clothes that fit me. So I mean, I felt like I was doing the best I could and I admired, I had such a fandom and respect and like knowing how hard it is to like just do all of it. You know, these, there's not a lot of women over 40 thriving and doing these types of things. So like these are the first mentors in my life. Like the first women that I saw get divorced and thrive that I saw not have six children and still have a fulfilling life, not talk about casual sex. I mean, I know this sounds naive, but like this is the world I lived in. So everything to me was like, I mean, I didn't feel threatened. I felt like, you know, take me with you. Show me the way inspired and just yeah, inspired for sure. It showed you another way. And honored. And honored. I think also embarrassed, but honored, you know, you don't want to bring them down. I don't know. I think like, I got that because you talked about this in while we were in Cannes, like on a panel and I think you were just saying like, I, I saw housewives and it broke the mold on what women my age could do, what the possibilities were. And you're, I think that is going to be true for a while for, for every woman in America. You know, it's like every woman who maybe is a single mom or, you know, an entrepreneur or like just is juggling all these quote unquote unconventional things, especially in a very conventional, convention to place like Utah or, you know, in the Mormon church, like you're talking about something very powerful about television and media. And I think you've like taken that mantle so well. And I think that is, I think that is why people really kind of like are drawn to you as a housewife. And they say that you are the protagonist of Salt Lake because, because you understand as it were the assignment. My memory of you is, hold on, is this phone background that I still have? Heather gay smoking a cigarette. That is you in a red dress. A good time girl. I said, I'm going to smoke and I'm going to drink when I'm in Cannes this time. We almost got you to hook up with that guy. Remember, but then we found out he was gay. Well, they always are. The red head and I wept because I'd never been thrust on a man's shoulder like I was. I did. You were reeping the whole time. I mean, I was pure joy. We not have the most spectacular. We had the time. Amazing. I was saying, we got back and we're exhausted for weeks. I took us a month to recover straight to Beyonce in Paris. Stop trying to. We were in the middle of writing. We were trying to put together the culture awards. You have to imagine we were in the middle of writing the culture awards. Can we talk about the culture awards? Let's talk about the culture awards. What's our time frame because no, we're great. The culture awards, you guys. That was the blast. It changed. It changed award shows forever. Stop it. It's like it's the chapel ron of award shows. It's just a favorite award show. That's the quote. Next to the chapel ron of award shows. Having you guys there amidst all of what was happening. What I loved was all the throwaway shots to me having the time of my life. Absolutely love. You think we're going to use that? You know what I know? What I knew we kind of did something there at the end of it. Like we're walking back in. We had taken a moment to ourselves after the show and we're walking back in and we see the one and only Mary Cosby and she is in this red sort of be cloaked gown with her gloves and she turns to us and she said, I enjoyed myself. And she said, my husband said, you better know who they are. She goes, and I do know who you are, Matt and Bowen. She goes, we need to have a picture. I was like, guess we do. The fact that Mary asked for a picture with us. That was bestowed upon you. I've known her for years. Never have I received such honor. It was like she was throwing us some bread as ducks. I was like, wow. It was like Queen Elizabeth looked over and did the hand. That was not a common thing for her to do, right? No. Yeah. That's incredible. The fact that, but then it's so funny because in the edit, I was doing the edit of the show and of course we're looking for audience cutaways, etc. And almost every time the audience was cutting over to you guys, what I loved was how seriously Mary M Cosby was looking at everything. She was just like, I don't know. It did take her like a second, I think, to register what was happening. And then at some point we did win her over, but I was just like, it was a journey. You won her over. You win everyone over. And like it was an incredible, incredible experience. Well, thank you for doing it. For doing it. Like it should happen every year. And I want third row seats right behind Ben class. To try. I mean, what is your favorite show on Bravo? Like what is the, what is, I have two questions. One, before we ask you the real question, who is the housewife that made you say housewives was for you as a, as a real housewife fan? And is there a show on Bravo besides housewives, whatever that's your fave? Tamara, perhaps as you mentioned earlier. I mean, that's interesting, but like, no, because Tamara terrifies me. That moment was so raw. And I just really appreciated her forehead. But like, honestly, I, that said housewives could be for me. It never occurred to me, right? Even until the final call, sizzle reel, it still never occurred to me. But honestly, I would say Vicki Gunvilsson. Vicki Gunvilsson because I feel like I'm feel emotional. Isn't that? You talk about your ocean. Yeah. She just was herself, you know, and was just obnoxious and I'm in the best way. Of course. Of course. Yes. I understand. And like got a lot of crap, you know, had to overcome a lot, but just like showed up, had a great business, was proud of who she was, was proud of what she wanted and her relationships went after it, got it, you know, the whole dawn thing was so painful, but I related to it. Right. I could see and I just think, I just think Vicki's story is pretty remarkable. Yeah. And she deserved, you know, that when she was in that mustard colored velvet dress, I don't remember what she was mad about, but I'm on her side. Yeah. You know, the thing about whatever she was mad about, she, she did serve that show well. Oh, absolutely. You know what I mean? I think she should still be on it, but that's just my opinion. But the thing about Vicki is she was, it's like we say often, she was always herself. She was always herself. And it's great that she was like the OG of the OC, really the first real housewife because she, it's kind of like when Kelly Clarkson won American Idol, they hit the jackpot. Like Vicki Gunvilsson being the first real housewife, the family van, they hit a jackpot because there was a model for what this show was and the kind of person that it revolves around. And she is Orange County. You know what I mean? Like, and you saw how housewives kind of evolved her, you know, and it's changed my physical appearance and like the way I show up to stuff. And you just, you see how the process like changes you, but like, you know, I just, it's never, I've never thought of that before, but that's just what came to me in this moment. But I bet you recognize yourself more when you look in the mirror now. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like I feel like I, like I'm in my zone and I am so like proud of the girl that like had to overcome so much more to get me here. Like, you know, I look back and I think the courage and like the guts, like also everyone hated me and was so mean to me season one and two. You know, they thought, who is this dummy? Let's, let's oust her. You know, she doesn't represent the brown just like the fans or the cast, the cast. You felt like they were not rooting for you. Oh, for sure. Was that jealousy because you clearly were the center? I thought it was like, I'm not going to be seeing with her. Like, like this is beneath my level of socialization, of Panache and image. And so yeah, it was really, really hard for me season one and two. It's really interesting because I remember like after season one was season one was a success, especially like, and it really snapped in in the last few episodes. And it was kind of a little bit, you guys realizing there was something off with Jen. And then obviously season two, it becomes a pop culture phenomenon. But I remember watching that and it was very clear in those reunions that people had seen themselves depicted in a way they didn't expect. Like I think that probably a lot of people did expect to look like the protagonist of the show, which was clearly, I mean, and everyone's incredible and in their function on the show. But I do think you are, your story speaks exactly to why a franchise exists in Salt Lake City. And I think that that's kind of just an undeniable, just narrative choice. So that had to be humbling for people and surprising in a bad way to a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. But you were someone with who came into the show with self-knowledge, which might not have been said for your castmates. And that was probably something that set you apart, but also like was very, I don't know, like a little bit weird for them. I think you probably just like were ahead on that. But like hopefully that's how you look at it in hindsight. Well, in hindsight, I just think like, I never thought I would be there and they never thought I would be there. And then when I was there, everyone was just like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? In terms of casting at all? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You know, I don't want to make this, I don't want to relate this back to myself, but like I relate on this level of like, I never expected to be on a show like SNL. I would always watch, I was obsessed with the show, watched every week, but I was like, you know what? Would be a dream to be a writer. And I was and it was great. And then it took like an audience or maybe like some co-workers some time to be like, oh yeah, Bowen's here. You know, but like there's something about sticking with it and staying and whether or not you went over the respective people, you at least like, you know, you kind of appreciate the things that are intact about yourself. Like I would not say you've changed very much since you've started on the show. You've been yourself, you know? I just think I'm seen more now, which is a good feeling. A good feeling, but also sad, you know? Yeah. That there's so many things that keep people from seeing who you really are. Wow. And that's really, really interesting and how in a way it's like, when there's a camera on you and almost like it emboldens you to like say this thing, like you do get the sense like across the franchises, like a lot of people started in marriages on the shows that like clearly weren't working. And a lot of people say like, oh, they went on the show to get a divorce, maybe not consciously, but unconsciously. But it's an opportunity. It's a lifeline, you know? Like I was at the darkest, saddest point in my life when the show came around. You know, I was in a business that was failing. I was trying to build it back up. Was it failing? Well, when I bought it, it was, yeah, like it was, it was, I started out every day like $1,000 in the red. He had taken out like a hard money loan with some offshore person. I couldn't even contact, you know? I was just, so I had to like build this business and in building it, I met a lot of people and that's what connected me to like casting because I knew a lot of these, you know, hot girls get an injection. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you. But the business was a success and that's where I really started to like pull myself out. But like to be on television, that was never, you know, in the plan. Yeah. It was, yeah. I mean, in the plan, it was, it was just like, you know, it was me watching Degrassey, Junior High is like, you know, a 10 year old thinking, you know, if you don't get it as a Nickelodeon kid, you're never going to get it. Of course. You know what I mean? Of course. So do you still watch everything on Bravo? Yeah, I watch everything and I love all of it and I really love, I love Southern Charm. I love Below Deck. I love Captain Jason and I love Captain Kerry and I did Below Deck Adventure with Captain Kerry. I was going to ask you about what it's like to be on Below Deck Adventure. It was so fun. It was incredible. It was totally incredible. We went to Norway, you know, the fjords, like things you would never see from land or even on a screensaver on your laptop. You're like, wow, this is real and not just a screensaver. I know sometimes I'm just like, this looks just like my screensaver. It's amazing. I didn't see a lot either growing up. Like I, like we had like a working class family on Long Island. So now that I get to my adult life and it gets to go places like can it's like so amazing and you do take it for granted because there are so many people that don't have, even if they dreamed, don't have agency access ability to go to all those places. Yeah. I mean, my first international trip was as a traveling companion for a little person that needed help like with their luggage and stuff because I wanted to see the world. Where'd you go? Can. And that can, sorry, cancun. Cancun. Same job. Wow, that's so interesting. Cancun. Yeah, probably similar to cancun and can- I wept on the white sand beaches of Cancun. I want to come back. I want to help my gonna come back. Yeah. You know, you just have this angst and this like desire for a bigger life, but your circumstances, there's just no path to see it. Well, and then like your parameters change as soon as you have a kid or three kids. Yeah. Like big mistake, huge. Don't do that. I'm like, you know, I mean, I just graduated. I'm an empty nester. I can say it. Yeah. Exactly. Oh my gosh. How does that feel? Incredible. It's my rum sping. I love it. Yeah. Was that true in Can or was still, no, was Annabelle still? Can kicked it off. Does Annabelle went to Tampa or what? No. Annabelle went to Tampa two weeks after I got home from Can. Wow. But like Can kicked it off for sure. Wow. And now it's like I'm being like totally intentional about it. We're really working hard. I know you've both recommended me to Raya. I'm still on the wait list. Wait, what? I recommended you to Raya. Sam Lansky is put in a word to like the CEO. I have every person, Andy, everyone's working on it, but there's something about my age group. Oh, give me up. No, I know. Maybe my emotional stability. I don't know, but Raya does. Oh my God, you're actually, I don't think emotional stability is a prerequisite for Raya. I'll tell you that much, at least among the gay men. But not online. I just that would be my first foray, but I am being totally like, I want to date now. I didn't want to do it when I was a mom. It's a weird thing. What's a good first date for anyone out there that's listening? For all the straight guys? In a group, like at a dive bar, like laughing and just hanging out. With a bunch of people hanging out. Yeah, and like having a vibe and then like for sure going home together. Yeah, yeah, great. You want to have your one night stand there? I do know your vibe. We have the same vibe. I can't believe you're asking me this. It's for the people at home. Honestly. It's for the straight guys listening to Last Coach, which they are, they are out there. Are they though? Are they? No, honestly, a lot of KDs out there have said, you know, my boyfriend will sometimes just have you guys on because they'll have indoctrinated them in the ways of Last Coach. And how to look smart and be cool. Okay, let's ask you the question. Heather Gay, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? So I have like a 10,000 of them, obviously, because every time I listen, I think of one. But when I was thinking about this one, I was trying to remember like the first moment that really kind of penetrated the bubble of the culture that I was raised in because it was very, very inclusive. I don't know how to explain it. I was a bubble boy. Osmonds were it. I only knew people of my kind and that believed and thought, I thought the world was flat. No one told me different. Everyone reinforced it. And I had one friend and we're still friends, Jessica Miller. Shout out. She's a good time girl. She, her older brothers picked us up and brought us home from school one day, which I don't know how or why my mom allowed it, but it did. Okay. It happened. And they played violent BEMS blister in the sun in the car. And I was probably in like third grade. And what, what, what, what was the feeling? What, what? Every part of me lived up. You know what I mean? I understood none of it and I understood all of it. And like it, it changed like my chemistry. And I thought, what is this song? What I know, like knowing I wasn't supposed to be hearing it and like, I can never unhear it. And I came alive. You had a mini awakening, a mini awakening. And then we went to her house and her brother served himself a cup of peppermint schnapps with ICU is about 16 in a short class. The more 16 year old drink ever. You can have a sip of you. I of course refused it because I'd already listened to violent BEMS. Right. You weren't done for the day. But like the first time that I had independent income and like the ability to go through the cassette tape, you know what, whatever the store was called at the mall back then, it was like, I like, I thought it was like a legal bootleg stuff like that wasn't allowed. So what was the typical music that you were listening to with the Osmans? Like, I mean, Osmans of course, but like Simon and Garfunkel, you know, my parents had great taste in like family music, classic things. Yeah, I loved. But then I got turned on to indigo girls and Dar Williams and Sean Colvin. And like, I just kind of had like a deep for a and Sean Colvin. Sean Colvin. Wow. So is that how are you listening to that in secret? Once I started working on I was 15 at Teddy Bears frozen yogurt and I always had discretionary income to buy music. He was just talking about how he's like moves. He was in Utah or Colorado. When were your Colorado years? My Colorado years I left in 89. Oh, wow. So I was, it was Teddy Bears, then it was Golden Swirl frozen yogurt. So you were a fro-yo claim. I used my experience at Teddy Bears to leverage a lead employee position at Golden Swirl, which I stayed on to my swirl. Being entrepreneurial about it. Always, always. Yeah. So, so I connect with this. I remember my song was The Roof by Mariah Carey. And it was just about like the rain hitting her skin on the roof while she made out with who we found out later was Derek Jeter and that that was her sexual awakening. And I believe I was eight or nine listening to it and there was something about it that I didn't need to really understand it to understand it. You know? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And music is special like that. Yes. Do you think? It is. And like, and when it comes from a source and you think it's like another world, like there's another world and realm that exists that I have not yet been introduced to. Right. And I want to. And how are people even thinking to express themselves like this? Exactly. Because it never would have occurred to me. Right. But that song in particular, did the brother tell you who the violent thumbs were with this? Like, no. I just like. It happened in a vacuum. I understood it. That song is clear and occluded. You know what I mean? Yeah. I just understood it. I don't know. I felt it like awakened me. Okay. I wanted to Yeah. You wanted to stay in the sheets. I knew even whispered in here. You know, things about stains in the sheets. Oh, they happen. I don't even know why. You know, they were eating dinner in bed. Yeah. They're eating pasta. They had arrabbiata sauce all over them. That's what it was. Who knows? It could be a million things. Let's not ask questions. Let's just listen and feel the music. But it's, you know what it is? It like that song in very in particular, we say this word a lot, serrated. Unforgettable. Basically, it's like there, it's got a rough edge. I understand serrated exactly. You know what I mean? Lots of ups and downs. Right. Cut straight through. Serrated you. You know what I mean? You've had to cut through your life. Absolutely. I love that answer because it's private. You know what I mean? It's like a very private, explicit, illicit thing. And just had to rub against everything you had been told about like the way you should feel. And just that as the culture that made you Heather Geisse culture was for her is like, you can, you can feel the memorability of that. Yeah. And like it's, it's tangible. Like this, I'm not going to be able to be who I'm expected to be. This is going to be harder than I thought, you know? That is quite queer. Oh, I feel, I have like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like I write from a queer perspective. I really do. Like I feel like my books have quite a queer perspective. If I'm allowed to say this out of proportion. Yeah, you are. It's about, what was the sort of thing? I might be queer. I'm only 50. You're breaking out of a boundary. You're breaking out of something that, you know, someone else has sort of like boxed you into. And now you're in control of, well, I'm going to get into the box because that's part of my process. That is part of my identity as an artist, a writer, you know, all of these things, a public figure, all these things should be, you know, I think are already driven by that idea. I'm being a little like, totally with you. In terms of culture, I mean, think of your podcast and speaking on culture, like, isn't there something like fascinating about the fact that like, I came out and like my only mentors of culture are housewives. Like these are the women that like, I am figuring out how to be, how to form my life after, I mean, think about when you came out, like you have to like, you think of who, who, what kind of person am I going to be? And I have no examples of that. I know, I knew no divorced women thriving or with their own businesses, none. Right. And so now it's like, and I see women now that have overcome and have resilience. Erica Jane is a huge inspiration to me. The way that she is just like reinvented and she's, you know, I just admire that like the tenacity, the resilience, the grit, like it is not hard, it is not easy out there. And it is not easy to come back from like, people being really horribly cruel, you know, and still shining. Yeah. I feel like also when you went on Ultimate Girls Trip, one of, and that was a hard season to watch. It's so hard because you realize quickly that you're a guppy in the, in the fishbowl. And I didn't come in thinking like, I really did come in like a fan, like excited to make fun TV with these incredible dynamics. Which is what it should be. That's how I feel about it. Like for me, the creative process of it is like, I am a theater kid. I grew up doing road shows and family performances and talent shows. And like I was a pianist, like this is like what I love to do. So like it seemed fun. Like we're going to have theme nights and dinners and we're going to all give each other shade and laugh and like, you don't understand or expect kind of the menacing or the meanness of it. And I, I really learned, I mean, that's when I became really close with Alexi and Marisol. I was with them on Sunday at the Miami game. Like we are close. We love Alexi and Marisol. I love Alexi and Marisol. They are the real deal and they, they defended me right off the gate on that trip. And they also gave Whitney Helf or not, you know, supporting me. Like they were true, true friends. And so I think those types of dynamics give everyone an opportunity to kind of show their true colors. Yeah. I mean, there's the mistake that I'm going to say as a non housewife, but I'm going to, I'm going to kind of, you could be one. So, oh my gosh, great. There's a mistake housewives make what I think Giselle is guilty of constantly, which is like, it's, it's the way that like some people think like meanness is funny by default, especially like when like, when guys like flirt with you, like they're like, they kind of like neg you a bit. Like they're mean to you. And you're like, wait, no, that's not, that's not hate. It never works. There's not as charming or that's not winning anyone over the way you think it is. I feel like Giselle and a certain subsect of housewives do that where they're like, let me be, let me just be nasty and cruel. And then like, let me drum up this like in name drama with like this class, a Zool bottle. It's like who fucking cares. That was lame. It just also wasn't fun to watch. Do you think she would have been kinder to you if the cameras weren't rolling and has she been kinder to you since? Yes, she's totally kind of me off camera. We noticed the moms with three daughters, you know, like she's, she's like, we had fun. Didn't we? And I'm like, we did not have fun, ma'am. I mean, she made like a really nasty comment about our friend, Jolken Booster. She's like, penis size. And then it was racist. It was racist. But it was, it was just like not cool. And then we were checking in with him and he was like, no, I thought we were totally great. Just like kind of an example of someone who's one way and then another, which I, I sometimes wonder, I'm like, do people think we can't tell? Oh, we can tell, you know? But then again, there she is a success on the show year after year. Clearly they keep her. But she's, I don't know. She's a six, she's a success in her little fiefdom. She's a success in a very limited capacity. Like no one outside of like this fandom specific to Potomac gives a shit. She makes things happen, which is what I think. So I also think honestly, she's incredibly beautiful. She's very beautiful and definitely a star. She's intoxicating on screen to me. Like she can be saying mean, mean things. I'm just like, I mean, I don't, I want to like her. I want to like her. Or as Rob and the Green Eyed Band, I just fall for the Green Eyed Band quite a bit, which sometimes messes with me too. Cause I'm like, I should be prettier. I always, diamond dozen pretty people everywhere. Doesn't, doesn't really work on me. It's actually real culture. But no, it's, it's, I, I always want, I always try like, I even with the ones that I'm on record year after year, like it's just because people act like themselves, you know what I mean? Like, and I guess you kind of learn that after a certain point. And even when you go back to shoot Salt Lake season after season, at a certain point, this is now the sixth season that's airing. I bet you've arrived to the fact that like, you know what, this person is just always going to be themselves. When do you stop trying? Well, I'm, I'm never going to stop trying. You're never going to stop trying. That's who you are. I'm just a court jester, just like, plenty of stuff. You never even stopped trying with Jen. No. And Jen is, Jen was, you know, a horse and a friend. And I love people. I sometimes say, rain on fire. Like, I love friends where they keep me on my toes and like everything they say is interesting or polemic or, you know, just challenging. And I don't know if that's just trauma or what, I don't know what that's about, but like, there is a part of me that thinks I can be good enough to this person that they will change and like me eventually or treat me well eventually. I, I can't, you could, a therapist could tell me that's never going to happen. I'd be like, I can, like I can love them through it. I can't. And I know I can't, but your view of friendship is that it allows for the challenging stuff, the polemic stuff, the stuff where you're like, this is not, like, there's no such thing as like, this is not how a friend should talk to me necessarily. Like, is that what you mean? Like, well, it's just like, I know they're horrible, but they're hurting. Like, I'll get the cage, I'll get the cage, the animal. I'll show them that they can trust me. As long as they're, I'll get them to treat me well. As long as they don't hurt you. I think that's what as fans is frustrated. You know how frustrated that is as a fan watching the show? Of course. That's, that's, that's, that is the thing I think as a fan watching the show with you, Heather Gay, is we just want you to know you, you deserve better in the friendships too. Like, you fought so hard in all these acts of your life. And then I do think there is something with female friendship where you want to believe some of these women are going to treat you better. And I remember with Jen because obviously, you know, we're fans, we're fans of all the ladies. None of them are ever going to treat me better just for the record. Well, we wish that you would. So with Jen though, I mean, when it felt like you kept making excuses for her and, you know, kept up a certain ruse with Jen now, she's going to be released pretty soon. How are you feeling about that? Just not really feeling anything, you know. Will you make a call? Oh no, I don't think, I think that I have closed the door on that for good reasons, you know, and like, but never, I mean, I don't know what the future holds, but like, I also feel like kind of my whole arc on housewives, like, you know, maybe Jen is coming back, you know, and that's my perfect exit, you know. How possible do you think that is? What that she comes back? Well, I never think of, well, first of all, they're both different questions, but A, how possible do you think it is that she comes back and returns to the show? I mean, I think as viewers of reality television, we know that it's an absolute possibility. Yeah, sure. I mean, I think as human beings on the planet earth know what television's about. Right. Spectacle. It would be ridiculous to say that it's not a possibility, of course. And then in turn, the idea of you then leaving the show is- It wouldn't be Jen related, but it would just be the cyclical timing of everything, you know. Sure, yeah. I mean, so then you're saying that you've closed that chapter on Jen, that like, you are someone who is generous with friendship, you allow for a lot, but then when it's done, it's done. Yeah, it's done for now for me. Okay. But of course, I have no idea where it's at for Jen and what's on her side. And if I'm- So, you know what I mean. Because I'm tying this back to like you having to like permanently, in some way permanently say goodbye to the people in your past from leaving the church. Like you have a model for this and that's a good way to move through the world in some cases. Like you say goodbye to people in your life with some permanence. Yeah, and things tend to get better. And so, that scared me for a long time, but it doesn't scare me as much anymore. That's a huge moment in life is actually realizing, you know what, I'm going to be okay without this person. And I could be okay without this person. Like because sometimes it's because when you are indoctrinated in what you are understanding to be like empathy and goodness, it's like once you let that go, you can like people are harder. People are the hardest. Like that's the thing. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. And so, I think that's why it's like it's harder to understand, but you do, you can understand it as a viewer is it's like you are someone who cares a lot and we can even see that and feel that from you even knowing you as well as we do, which we went on one sick vacation and we've hung out in a ward show where we got to say hi. It's real guys, it's real. I love it. It's real. Because you want to know what, like we do consider you a friend because we can tell how much you genuinely care and that comes to the screen. It really does. I love the show. I love the women. I have, it has changed my life forever and it's like an incredible privilege to do what we do and to like have access and to like be in can, partying with you guys. Like you can take at least a bottle of first season if it means. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And it was really, it's just like there's, I just feel like I don't know how my life could get better. Yeah. That's really, that's wonderful. One last question before you move on to, I don't think so honey, were you guys having fun together at the culture awards? Like were the Salt Lake Housewives, were you guys able to put things to the side at least for that night? Yeah, we're the queens of that. We had the best time plus when we're on top and we're there and everyone like, it felt like we were the biggest stars in the world. You were, you were. It was so wonderful to us. I mean, you think we're going to bicker about bullshit? No. Yeah. Like we, I mean, there is genuine love there on my side for all of them, you know, they have changed who I am, they have shaped who I am, they are, they are why I'm here and who I've become, which is crazy, you know, because so much of my life was shaped by such different forces. And so yeah, we had the best time. Like I laughed, I cried, I wept. I'm not even going to say it was better than catch because it was. And it was, it was just like everyone had such a good time. And did you guys hear how Angie harassed Jeff Goldblum? No. Tell us. Tell us what happened. Well, I will tell you that like she had good intentions, but her presentation was awful. She went up to him and said, my daughter loves dinosaurs. Will you make her a video? I mean, if only he knew, like, I think he probably understood. But then she backpedaled and made it all make sense. But I was like, that's not your line. You have to, I think he did, he made a beautiful video. Of course he did. He's the most charming man in the room. He's a lovely man. Oh my gosh. And his wife, they were great. Emily, she's the best. But I think Jeff and Angie are on the same brave wing wave. Like just like, just curious people who just, you know, are, you know, just, just, just like, oh, she likes, oh, absolutely. It's her specific dinosaur. You know, it was just like, they were off to the races. Two characters talking to each other. Yeah, honestly, I mean, you and I, I'm telling you, like, it made my heart leave out of my chest to see you guys like having fun together. Oh, I loved it. Being charming. I hope we see more of that on the show this season. So before we go out and think, so honey, what's, what's the come on the season? To come on the season, there's a lot of really, really fun, fun laughter. We have a lot of fun. We wear a lot of costumes. We are into our themes. You know, you do CS go on a yacht with Captain Jason. Yeah, I bet that's a jam. It is a jam. He really is hot. So hot. So hot. And it's just a battle of me V. Brittany, obviously. I lost miserably. We have to say Brittany has definitely stepped into her iconography. Listen, Brittany should know that she may have a short game on the app, but I've got a long game. And Bravo Khan is in a few months. Let's go. Wow. She should be aware, you know, I have history with Captain Jason. I plan to like, you know, lean in on that. And now I'll know where the party is when we're there. Absolutely. And I just think there's, you'll see some growing pains in some of our friendships. And I think that it's good, you know, I go to Greece. We go to Greece, Opa. And we, that's the best moment. I mean, Greece was spectacular. And there's a moment we're on a hill with one of Angie's family members. And I felt like I was on vacation. Like I forgot that I was, you know, working as it were. We never say working. I'm so sorry. We forgot that we were on a girls trip to my best friends in Greece. Yeah. Right. Exactly. All right. Well, we can. We forgot we were in scene. We're in scene. I know. I do admire how people on all the shows are like not, you never say the show. It's the group. I love the ladies. When we were in New York. Well, when we were in New York. Not never the reunion. Well, when in New York. But you know what a lot of the drums kind of be is when we were at the last cultural awards. Stop. Are you kidding me? An audible gas. An audible gas from our executive producer. There's drama post-culture awards. Well, depending on how well this gets added to short. I will say if we saw. No, there is. There is. A lot of things went down intergroup. Are they going to cut to the culture awards and a flashback? I hope they do. I'm going to do my very best to make sure they do. I have to say. Oh my God. I don't know if you know who I am, but receipts prove. Oh, we know. Timeline screenshots. And I believe a lot of it's on footage at the last cultural release awards. All I want is for at the reunion, someone to go to someone else. You owe me an apology for what you said at the cultural awards. For what you did at the cultural awards. We were at the cultural awards. And you were disrespectful to Jeff Goldblum. Listen, Jeff Goldblum is just the tease. We have three or four story line things that happened there that will come up. So much. You were disrespectful when Ben Platt was singing. Oh, no, I wouldn't do that. No, you got into it with our friend Steven. I had to introduce Lisa to a couple of people she didn't recognize. Listen, here's what we'll say. Here's what we'll say. If there are cutaways to the culture, if the cultural awards is mentioned in any, you know, explicit way, you will be getting a recurring yearly invitation. Is that all it takes? Incentive. No, you're invited anyway. I'm just kidding. What I do want is for literally the cultural awards to come up and then me and Bowen come out in gallons as friends of and sit at the end of the couches. And just both sit on each end. Well, as the host, I think. And then I go, you owe me an apology. And I'll say, you're a friend of. Would you have a snuff like you can speak? Bowen and I get into it from across from no man's land all the way when you're sitting on the end screaming at each other. Whitney goes, I wasn't there. I wasn't even there. She was so missed. I know. And like, I, we were all text. Well, not all. I was texting her the day before and saying, listen, just, you know, go off your phone for like 48 hours. It's going to be real painful. But it's all okay. We missed you. You were definitely poorly missed. And she was so phenomenal in this first episode. She was. She really was. It was like, but if you had been there, it was like, she's in all of her first, I've lost my entire fortune. Yeah. You know, it was like painful. You did. There was something about the fortune. Yes. Yeah. At one point she said fortune. I think they softened it, but it was like, my entire fortune is gone. I do. Fortune is one of my words. I like to say my fortune. I love fortune. I love fortune. You like to say, you know, Heather has a great fortune of beauty. You have a great fortune of beauty. Thank you. That's the way they would use fortune. All right. We got to do, I don't think so, honey. It's time to get our giggles out about things in culture. Okay. So this is our 60 second segment where we take exactly that amount of time, one minute to rent and rail against something in culture. I have a thing. I've realized that something that I never thought I'd have to do is going to be something I got to do. Okay. This is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so, honey. I think I have to learn to ski. I've started seeing someone who skis and it's a big part of this person's life. And I feel like it was already a big part of my sister's life. And your this is just like Colorado. I thought this was a good thing to bring up on this episode because I don't think so, honey, me skiing ever before this, I really do feel like I'm going to get hurt. And what I really don't think so, honey is an injury at this point in my life. Like who needs a torn ACL at 35? You know, I don't think so, honey. That being said, I'm told it's quote unquote fun. I'm told it's quote unquote easy to do in the beginning. The bunny hills, I know those sound kind of simpler because a bunny is a very simple animal, the way it hops, et cetera. But the thing is like, I don't know about me and my coordination. I'm a six foot one man, not known for my dexterity. And but I would say, you know what I'm saying? It's like I was never good at like the surfing and the snowboarding or whatever. Five seconds. So new to me. I will try. I don't think so, honey, though, if I get really hurt, you have to pay for it. Oh, and that's one minute. How did I get rubbed in? I don't think so, honey, rebuttal to that. I don't think you want. Yes, this will count as yours and then it will go to me. No, you probably came in with a topic. No, I didn't. And I was panicking. I was going to make you guys. Now I've got one. Now you've got one. Okay. Okay. This is Heather Gaze. I don't think so, honey. Oh, I can't another historic episode. We're going out of order. This is Heather Gaze. I don't think so. Honey, your time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Matt Rogers using I need to learn to ski as a ploy to let us all know about his new crush. He's dating someone. And the fact that he might need some extra help on the hill. Also, I don't think so, honey, away for him to say, I'm going to need a lot of support. Don't expect too much. I have to pay for it. Yeah. Like he's doing everything he can to make sure he gets some hot ski patrol guys to guide him down the bunny. I don't need him anymore. I need a sauna and a hot rub. This is going to be harder than it looks. 30 seconds. I don't think so, honey. Matt Rogers pretending that he's scared about getting hurt. Torn ACL when you're over 50, baby, your body is in great shape. And all you want is for us to tell you, you're not going to get hurt. You're a natural athlete. You're going to be a step. Also, surfing has nothing to do with skiing, snowboarding neither. So your plight is unheard and like you're going to be just fine. And that's one minute. Oh my God. You can do it. You're right. I just need to shut the fuck up. I don't think I don't want to get hurt. This body, it's the trophy. You are so good at skiing. You are. Honestly, I didn't know if this was a joke. No, but you're so good. I'll be with you on the slopes in the episodes. I'm from Utah. I don't just moonlight there. Also, Bowen, I was an Eskimo ski club, Colorado girl. So I was a Keystone guy. I was a Keystone boy. We still go there. We were Beaver Creek Vale. I love Beaver Creek and Vale. I need you guys to hit the slopes. I would love that. Okay. Bowen and I will absolutely do anything together. Did you see us weeping together? No, I'm telling you. The way that I saw you guys absolutely connecting. Also, can I just share a little thing that happened? And that is the same gazebo. Please. So I'm over on the side with Amanda and Sierra from Summer House who are both perfect. So good. So good. And so Kyle. Is a close specimen. Oh, just stunning. And so we had been hanging out a lot with Amanda, but Sierra, because we were all doing NBCU stuff. There was a rare appearance for Sierra there. And Sierra wasn't one of the NBC ghosts. Amazon or something. So it was finally they were all linked up. And so DJ Kyle Cook was doing DJ Kyle Cook cool boy stuff out there opening up for Ludacris. So Kyle comes in and he's amped because he just crushed. He's like, he was just acting like he was like a kid on Christmas morning. I love that. He opened for Ludacris in Cannes. It was awesome. So great. So he comes in and it's like, dude, it was so great, dude. And then Ludacris's person starts the opening. DJ starts playing. So Kyle's like, we got to go, we got to go. And then like Kyle runs off a bunch of people follow Kyle. And I'm like, okay, we're going to go. And Amanda goes, I haven't even gotten a new glass of wine. Can we take a second? And Sierra is still sitting and she's like, I know. And I realized this is my moment to be cool in front of Sierra Miller. So totally against my personality. I'm usually running after Kyle Cook. So I go, I go in front of Sierra and Amanda. I go, yeah, like, why are we running? And Sierra goes, yes. For a second. I was like doing drag to be cool enough for Sierra. The line run itself. And then I like got to sit down and like talk to them for a second. And I was just like, hell yeah, I did it. And then I have second later, now I'm like uncool. But I saw my second cosplay as a school girl. And he ran off, of course. The second, then you heard, yeah. And I was like out there. But then we had such an amazing time. You got on their level. Like you got on a code switching icon. You're talking to a Mormon housewife. I mean, that's all I do. It's all, it's all we all do. But it was, it was truly, it was, it was a good moment for me. Lots happened in that. Lot goes down on the gazebo. Yeah. And it's been a man. Loved it. Loved it all. Okay. So I've lost the phone. It's falling underneath. Okay. I'll do a quick one. Bowen's being left out of his one minute. This is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. And his time starts now. I don't think so, honey. The fact that I did not wait to get my first Botox at Beauty Lab and Laser, I got it done at the Derm. And I really genuinely was holding out on the next time I go to Salt Lake City, whenever that will be, I will get my first botulism injection. Toxin. Toxin. We call it Tox. Tox. I'll get my first Tox in my face. My guy's a minimalist, he says. I say I have to raise my eyebrows and express myself for work. He says, I'll go minimal. This shit is crazy. 30 seconds. I'm new to this. You look amazing. You seem so surprised. This is, this is, do I, do I? I seem so surprised. Can I, what's my range? I don't know about this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna really ease up on it. I tried it, maybe not for me all the time. Maybe now and then in like the summer when I'm like, oh, like I'm, you know, now I want to look dewy. But I should have waited to go to Beauty Lab and Laser, a site of true history, television culture history. I'm sorry I did not go and be a patient to your business Heather Gay. Com пад for life and you looked perfect. Thank you. That's one minute. I will say it looks great. Raise your eyebrows for me and now make a angry face. My пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад пад But my um, it's actually the triangle of sadness. Okay, so I have it in my triangle of sadness, I suppose but my derm says he'll never give it to me in my forehead because my brow is to Flat and thick. What do you think about this? And I'm worried about my under eyes when a guy says to me that he'll never give it To me in the area of ass. I usually break up with them. Oh Oh my god That works for Botox that works for Penetrated that works for penetrative. Well, you know what he says to me he goes We're oh, wait, he's gonna do we'll do your 11th and then he goes and maybe a little bit over here He's like but I'll never do your forehead because I don't want your your your out of drew because he wants me to be expressive as an Actor which of course, but then I was like, but what about my under eye? I am not expressive as an actor No, you are not even lift a muscle on my face I don't know if I'm smiling or crying or shocked and have you not feel my We feel it all then not do not fear the needle fear the furrowed lines that will aid you prematurely Well, like vulnerably the only thing I'm really like not good about is like just my bags under my eyes and like though Like the wrinkles on my eyes right here He goes you are a candidate for a lower blepho and I was like a what a lower blepho A lower blepho a lower blepharoplasty. Yes, so now I was thinking of something sexual that only derm said On the slopes And I need a blepho stat But yeah, no now just blepho is something in my vocabulary. I'm telling everyone Well, you know, I'm a candidate for a lot of you can give you ask ask all the house Have you had an upper left upper bluff or lower bluff? We just say bluff be L Yell EPS. So when I go to Bravo Con, I'll just say bluff LB LB. I'll do LB. You I'll do a UB upper bleph bleph anyways, I will Heather. I think we should take Matt to gay ski week or something Well, for sure. I'm on board. I think I'd be very fun. It cooks you down the mountain I Don't turn ACL on my watch. I will be so good at the app ray part. Oh, that's the only thing that matters I was the funnest part, but you have to do the it's interesting You do you have to like suffer through the actual skiing to make the effort even more enjoyable Yeah, you have to have feel the cold in order to enjoy the hot. I get it. Okay. Well much in the future Listen guys Salt Lake City. I am your hostess that all the wives are your hostess We're gonna have to do like a couple days with you a couple days with and we'll just do an Airbnb and we'll all bring Them all in one by one. Yeah, make sure that they you know Kiss the ring before they're allowed to become Before they're invited so Angie Angie's first ever watched what happens live was with bow and yang and she was so She was nervous and she still thanks me to this day For making her feel at ease and that was that a time when I didn't know how to feel about Angie because she was so New to being an official house back and I was like, I don't know like I love Meredith like does what does this mean? Just the sweetness was so apparent. I was like, oh, she's just she's just an angel on this earth I can already tell I you just have no choice but to but to be nice to this person Yeah, she's lovely Shawn elect over there and then you know, we just bought it. She gave me her number She's like you were invited anytime She's I mean, she's wonderful. She also has a sliced tongue of great shade, which we should not despair if we should honor equally She's got a good hair. I love it. I mean, I think she has the range you look like a trampoline with eyes I think you look like a trampoline with eyes. It's actually an all-timer It's most of her lines are all timers. They really are my daughter loves dinosaurs. Can you make a video? Yeah? From his face She's a great communicator you we can see how expressive you are you are one of our great vessels of pathos and joy You experience it all we you reflect the human condition back to us as we watch Heather gay. Thank you so much for coming on our humble podcast. Yes Really fun, so it's it is on Tuesdays on Bravo days on Bravo 87 central correct correct Streaming on peacock along with the culture We and every episode with a song I actually said friend in a company Am I allowed to join in or is that like yes, that is perfect and if you Invited everyone you knew You And the car Thank you for being a friend Lost culture is just a production by will feral's big money players and I heart radio podcasts Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen yet executive produced by Anna Hosni and produced by becker Ramos I did it a mix by Doug Bain and our music is by Henry Kupersky This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human