Matt Cardona

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I have one of my five, as I actually said in this very room, somebody that I feel confident that I'm a fan of. Somebody that I feel confident, I don't know if he feels the same, in calling him my actual friend. Somebody who recently returned to WWE. Somebody who also went away from WWE and set the path ablaze, took whatever blueprint there was, created an entirely new blueprint. I am, of course, talking about Long Island I see, but not just that. The Deathmatch King, the very complete, and recently returned to WWE. I mean, he's a former everything champion. He'll tell you all about that himself. Ladies and gentlemen, I am so excited to present to you Matt Cardona. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Cody. Thank you for having me. Finally, about time. I could have used the rub when I was on the indies. Yeah, no, no. I mean, I came, well, when you were on the path, when you were on the indies, I came and did your podcast one time, correct? Well, you did it like via satellite. Remote. You're here in person, which is really the only way to do it. Yeah, yeah. I've been on your podcast before, but it was you and KO burying me. Yeah, we'll talk about that. We should talk about that. You have Louis Vuitton shoes on, huh? I do, yeah. You are incredibly well-dressed. Well, I didn't want to, you know. No, I mean, but this is a look here. You have the whole thing. You have the logo on the cuff, you know. As you see, right? Yeah, I see. Show the camera. In terms of, there it is. In terms of this fit, you've followed this model basically since you left. I mean, following the journey when you were out there and seeing everything you did, is this the new, in terms of the complete Mac Cardona? No, I think if I'm backstage, like on SmackDown, I'm not in the suit, but like you, you got to carry yourself like a star, right? Especially on the indies, it's, you wear a suit in the indies. Oh my God. It's like you're the president. That's somebody. But that's helpful. It is. That guy or that girl has some information. They know what's going on. They're here for a reason. Oh, I bet you that's what the line is for. You are also a big proponent. I recently found this out in bringing water to the locker room, correct? No, no, no. I want there to be water. Water needs to be there already. I'm not saying I'm the one bringing it, but now in WWE, I mean, there's water bottles everywhere. The trainer, the locker room, catering, my gorilla, it's unbelievable. But you, you were shocked to find on the indie scene, not every locker room. I just couldn't believe you can't get a case of water. Was it 499? And it truthfully became your part of your arrangement with the infinite promoters. It was never a fish. That's not real. It was never a fish. I didn't need water. Okay. Well, I don't want to fall into the category of, you know, thank you. I'm so glad you set it up. There is a lot of concern on what's a Cody lie, what's myth, what's legend, what's reality. And I didn't want you to feel uncomfortable coming on the podcast. So I have a list of topics. And I want you to just read glasses. Yeah, let me give you my glasses real quick. I want you to read them. Are those real? Do you need to be wearing those? Are they for the look? Well, I need to look at the paper here. Read these aloud. And if you don't like any of these or don't want to talk about any of them, we don't have to. But, uh, yeah, perfect. If you just read those aloud. Lock a room. Check it. Okay. Not true. Cody lie. Okay. I understood. We will touch that one. Went through my gear without permission. Are we telling this though? I mean, we told the story a million times. No, but that is not a Cody live. Correct. Do any, just read the topics. And if any of them sticks out or some context, I did go through your bag. Yes. There was permission. Okay. Crumbs make crumb cake. That's a famous. You're saying you taught me that I quit WWE because of you. I quit. Oh, you could because you had to lose to me. That is true. I didn't quit. I was out. Yeah, you quit. I was fired. I was working my ass. You quit. Boo. I never missed a WrestleMania. Boo. Okay. The shipping cost and your lightsaber. Okay. That's true. You paid for the shipping cost. And at the time I'm just an indie guy. Right. Or was I still with the company? Bam. But that was, I mean, to be fair, I thought that bill for your Kylo Ren lightsaber. You still have it? I have mine. I have mine. Hell yeah. Not buying drinks even though you're rich. So when we go out often, I've noticed the wallet doesn't come out. Oh, that's a f***ing lie. Can we curse it on that? Sorry. It's quite a lot of piss. We'll file that away as a Cody. That's a lie. Okay. Run in practice. Word. Did I catch you the other week at TV running on the slick black floor? Slick black floor. Because it's very slippery. And you didn't want to fall? I didn't want to fall. Always ready. But you did it in a not so subtle way. You were literally starting at gorilla and spring. Well, you can't half asset. I get it. You can't be half pregnant. But this is at four o'clock in the afternoon. Well, that's what rehearsal should be. I understand. Practice makes perfect. That's right. Yes. Oh, Lord. That's, that's brandy. That's her saying. I know, but you also, you know what? I won't even touch that one. Okay. It's your show, Cody. It's your show. What's on page number two? I, these, these are my notes. These are these. We're very professional here. We have, we have our notes. You're always ready. I'll have these. You are always ready. So what are you drinking? I'm drinking the Long Island loudmouth has some Wheatley vodka, some other things. Love that. A little lower third, right? What are you drinking there? This is a Wheatley America. It's not. It's it's not water. Smell it. Get in there. Get in there. Do you want to smell? I trust you. No, I got you. Cheers to you. This is a very good. Yeah. And you're right by, I mean, the well spring. I feel like a. Long Island. I would imagine the Long Island loudmouth is a Long Island iced tea, but with Wheatley vodka. Long Island ice. There it is. Rest in peace though. He's gone. That's it, right? Zach Ryder needed to die for Matt Cardona to live. Very, very. Wow. Wow. I said a bunch of times. Can you tell? I actually really like it. You're by the, you're by the wellspring of the good stuff too because you're here at the Buffalo Trace facility, Wheatley American Body. Isn't it? I like it. It's a good vibe here. Yeah. I actually, a couple of little touches for you here. I don't know if you see that. I can't say it out loud, but you know what that is, right? I do. I do. Yeah. And then the Hulkski for you as well. Very cool. So I know that's a rollercoaster like Hulk, like rollercoaster islands. Like not my thing. That's a lie. That's a lie. Once you came to HHN with me, you were, you were. I'm not a rollercoaster. I need some thema. I don't want to like rollercoaster high five, dude. Yeah. Cool coaster, bro. What did you used to say? I don't want to see the parking lot. That was your big thing. Man, that breaks you that easily. Yeah. I don't want to, you know, the immersion. You need the immersion because you're in a world filled with immersion. Is that it? That's my reasoning for it. If I do all this to escape, I want to escape. Yeah. If I'm there, I want to be there. You know, a new segment we do our friends at WWE 2k right now. If you could, I guess, fantasy book yourself in any dream match. You've got 400 something roster members. You've got men can wrestle women now. Three stages of hell has been added to the game. It's the best it's ever been. Obviously you just came back. I'm not in the game. Well, you just came back. So give us, give us your match without you, I suppose, in terms of what would you do with 2k? Well, maybe we can create a player that they saw that. Yeah. We can create me. Maybe I'm downloadable eventually. Let's be positive. Sure. Right. What about, is Brandi in the game? I think you'd have to create the. It could be me and Chelsea versus you and Brandi. Oh, wow. Yeah. What's the difference between mixed tag and intergender? Which can the like men. I think intergender, the men can hit the women. Yeah. And then mixed tag, it's got it. That's awkward thing where the tag happens. Yeah. And then the other one just fades away. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So you put together this dream match. What type of match is it? How does it go? Who wins? All right. My fantasy booking match is Chelsea Green versus J. Great. Versus you. Whoever wins. Yeah. Has to pay for a VIP tour at Disney. Geez. And they're up there now. They're up there now. Okay. And I want to do the rise, not just sitting down on the benches like you and Brandi like to do. Closed to choose. Yeah. I'm saying. We're moving. Yeah. Yeah. No flip-flops. You know. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. And we got to go all the rides, all the hits. You versus Chelsea. Whoever wins pays with a VIP tour. What type of match? What type of match? Yeah. And you think Chelsea like climbing the ladder. Is he going to climb the ladder? I think so. Yeah. I know I'm not in the game yet, but when I'm in, I'll come. If you're up there, I'll shove you over. You know. Okay. Put it on my shoulders and walk her up. You know. Savage list style. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. All right. We'll deal on an actual. I think we should actually, we can make a full bet about it. Yeah. That's for real. Yeah. Dude, that's so crazy you mentioned that because I actually get to give you the news. What's the news? I mean, you're, you're booking this segment as a fantasy booker and you're talking about not being in the game, which is because you just came back. I just came back. Right. Not to be contentious, but actually 2K has allowed me to be the one to tell you, you will be downloadable. Oh, that's the latest WWE 2K. Thank you. There it is. Thank you. As Matt Cardona, that's, that's pretty damn cool. I'm, I'm a, I think we've all talked about a T-shirt, actually for your video game. You get those three. You made it. Okay. That's great. I'm getting old and get, I wear glasses now. You lie about your age, don't you? Huh? You used to lie about your age though. I wouldn't lie about my age. You lie about your height. No. Yes. Bro. The one time I went to the park with you and you had those, those new shoes on, I'm not going to say their names that were on Instagram. They give you the extra inch in any. Yeah. Yeah. And you're in every photo, lean forward the cut. I was the one who goes like with a sleeveless shirt oiled up. I've never oiled up. No. You've never gone sleeveless. I have gone sleeveless. Yeah. sleeveless hoodie. Yes. I've never noticed American nightmare jacket, American nightmare hat. I wore it. No, that's not. You're laughing because it was true. We did a shoot recently. Oh, wow. How do I get noticed? Oh man. Yeah. We mentioned it on your sheet of my notes here. Crumbs make crumb cake. That's right. You know, that game. Little bit of this, little bit of that. You know, you know. You know, it's up together, you know. And is that why you're never won to buy the drinks when people go out? Is that? That's a guy curse. It's a lie. Go. Do you know it's a lie? It's bullshit. I actually hate when people pay for me. Yeah. I hate it. Like when you, if you ever open your dinner, I hate it. I don't think I've got that sentiment from you. You're about 35 wizard brews behind, bro. The wizard brew, you got to have the fire whiskey at the bar. Have it right there. You can't walk away with it. This is a deep cut about, you have to have the fire whiskey there. You can't have the two drinks. You can't have two. You can't have two. You get the double fire whiskey. And that's where things go. That's where things can go. That's where things can go. Yeah. My gosh, I'm so excited to have you back. I'm excited to be back. Yeah. It's been a while. There were certainly times where I didn't think it was going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember? And then you and K.O. buried me for one to come back. Remember that? Well, I asked K.O. a question that didn't lead to that moment. I take full, no, no, no. You certainly didn't like defend me at all. Yeah. You laughed. Already. So I got it. I chuckled and that was with my friend, Kevin. Let me ask you this. You come back, who calls you? Who's the person who puts in the call? Man, we go in. We peel back the curtain here. So it actually starts. Unless you don't want to. We can do it. Oh, that's fine with me. I'll do the condensed version. So I'm working for TNA, but not technically like under contract. And TNA does the invasion of NXT. Yeah. And I know I'm not under contract, but I'm like, I'm not going to sneak in. Sure. I'll do it. Do that leads to a match. And Chelsea was doing, I guess, media for rumble and Saudi. Always doing media. And Nick Khan was there. Okay. And she said to Nick, like something like, you see my husband wrestle NXT. Nick said something like, I've always wanted to, you know, meet your husband, talk to your husband, give him my number. So. Okay. She gave me Nick Khan's number. You know, I'm texting immediately. Right away. Nick called me right there. I said, what do you want? I said, I want to come back. Yeah. And the ball kind of got rolling from there. Now that you're back and that's, thank you for sharing. I mean, there's a lot ups and downs, but we'd be here for now. No, but you, you, you, that sometimes throughout. Floording with it many, many times. And then getting, getting here where you're back. I believe 2019 again, these are real notes in terms of the last title you held in WWE. 2019. Yeah. Yeah. And what is it that you want to do next? Man, uh, fortunate to be tag team champion twice. Yeah. US champ, I see champ. I believe you were in the match. So technically I beat you. Mania. WrestleMania. Uh, I mean, I'd be lying because I didn't want to be the WWE champ. That's the title. I think you and I are alike. We didn't just want to be wrestlers. We didn't just want to be WWE superstars. We want to be the WWE champion. So why not swing for it? No. And I think, I think putting that out there is ultimately like, that's part of this whole process. I mean, that's the goal ever since I was a little kid. And um, you know, when I got fired, when I got released, like it wasn't, how long do we get back there? Of course it's always in the back of my mind. But every day, like I list like my goals in my head. Yeah. That number one goal is be WWE champion. You can't beat the WWE champion unless you're in WWE. Sure. So I had to get back there. I like that. Yeah. Well, here's to the goals. Yeah. Here's the goals. Question for you. I don't know if you remember this. That is good. Very good as well. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you again, Wheatley American vodka. You get released from WWE and you called me. And do you remember, it's just a funny moment in the call. I don't think you remember it, but I remember it like it was yesterday. It wasn't a call I was expecting. I think it was at the nightmare factory or whatever it happens. You called me and told me and I didn't say anything. Like I just, like, I kind of just like lingered upon you telling me. And do you remember what you said? I do not. You go, you got to say something. And I like it was so jarring because that was a day that a lot of releases were happening and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by WWE 2K26. You want to talk about legacy? You want to talk about the moments that define your life? That's what WWE 2K26 is all about. In this game, the show never stops. You want to talk about history. WWE 2K26 has the biggest roster ever assembled. 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I think a lot of people look at you because of how well you promoted yourself, how high production values, which we'll talk about that you put into your work. Did you have a plan because it looked like you did or did you not? Did not have a plan. Right. So when I got released, it was the very beginning of the pandemic. There was nowhere else to really work. There was no independence to the world we shut down. Also the year prior, I don't want to say everybody in WWE, but everyone I knew got offered five year new deals and I didn't take it. I didn't know if I wanted to stay or go because my career had a lot of highs and lows. Like as everybody does. So I wasn't sure and the anxiety for that whole year, like, am I going to stay? Am I going to go? Am I going to stay? Am I going to go? When I got fired, it was like, they made the decision for me. It was like this, this instant weight off my shoulders and like, I needed to get fired. I needed to go out there and find who was Matt Cardona. The Zack Ryder guy, it was great. You know, I'm so grateful for it. The woo woo woo was awesome, but it had to change and it wasn't going to change in that WWE environment. So I just, I had to get let go. But yeah, no, no real plan because like I said, like there's nowhere to go. There's no indies. I applaud because I feel like and I would not usually put this guy over on this podcast, I will hear Drew McIntyre, somebody who left or was released and found his way and then started finding, oh, I can make noise. I can bang the drum loud enough that my friends at WWE at the higher ups are looking, oh, what is he's doing it? Something that I was very impressed with is you spent a lot, you invested again, like a classic invest in yourself. But when you're, what's it called the Ecto cooler? Yeah. Ecto one. When you're driving in a Ecto one Ghostbusters official vehicle into independent shows where they didn't even know how to get a car in the parking lot for that matter. And then you're, you're working with promoters, you're working with promotions like GCW. You're trying to give these big visuals and this high production value, which works because that's the character you are. You've been at WWE. But also it's a little bit of a nudge. You guys could use this too. It's not that don't, don't try and be too cool for school. Go, go big. I thought it was really incredible and I thought you took what Drew had done a little bit of what I had done. And I think you made it very, very much a different blueprint and I appreciate that. And I certainly stole from you. I stole from Drew, but I added my own flavor and I was the WWE guy in the indies. And I was going to make people hate me for being the WWE guy. Right. I was the GCW world title in this death match. Call myself the death match king. I only had one death match. You know what I'm saying? Like people to this day at autograph signings, oh, I love all those death matches. I did one. You did the one, but I took that title. I made it a spinner. I made it Velcro. I called it the GCW universe. If you're going to hate me for being a WWE guy, you're going to really hate me for being a WWE. And I treated every big show like it was WrestleMania. Cause if I'm not treating it like WrestleMania, then why am I even doing it? You know, sure. I wanted to ask about you're going to this match with Nick Gage. Yep. And it's an iconic shot that everyone who works in a wrestling company that makes money from men and women falling down in a ring, saw a clip. Saw whether it was you walking in the ring in one of the most contentious moments or saw you getting pelted with beer cans and all kinds of things after. Were you nervous? And this is my thought. Um, we don't have to talk about companies or this person you wrestled specifically, but what you were doing was not your forte. No. What you were doing was, was a death match and we look it up folks. Yeah. It's what you were doing was that were you nervous because I always found you to be a bit of a skittish. Yeah. But you were, you were an old school type wrestler. Skittish is not the word. We're not supposed to really hurt each other. Right. We got to do it again tomorrow night. Now it should look like we do, you know, like the Bret Hart. Yes. Thought of make this look amazing, but we need to do it every night. A little late in a little bit. I'm a little snug. Obviously, I know you're, uh, and Chelsea has reiterated that not snug, but rather considered rather stiff. Um, were you nervous going in and what, what are your thoughts pre-Nic Gage death match and post? Cause this is, this is a point where you got everyone's attention. Yes. So this is a couple of months into my indie run. Who is Matt Cardona? I didn't even know. I knew, am I just Zach Ryder with my own name? That sucks. Right. I, I needed to find myself. I thought about like people are going to want to see Zach Ryder get carved up by Nic Gage. I knew it would create buzz, but I did not anticipate the amount of buzz it would create. Like it changed my career, changed my life. Like social media. It's a big deal on the internet champ. Right. But like that night it trended number one, that match over the Olympics and like an independent wrestling show in Atlantic State, New Jersey. Yeah. Cause people, whether they bought or they wanted to just read about it or see it on Twitter, they wanted to see, had to look and see what you were doing. Exactly. And then the fact that I won, oh man. And it was, I didn't dip my toe in it. I did a cannonball to that death match. It wasn't, it wasn't a street fight. There was the pizza cutters, the glass, the light tubes. Like if I was going to do it, I was going to do it. And I knew I'd get a little bloody. So I wore like all white, like a white T-shirt, but that white shirt was maroon afterwards, just covered in blood. After it, would you do one ever again? I'm not saying I would never do it again. Great. Yeah. But like the, the circumstances need to be right. The opponent, the story, the money. Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Crumbs make crumb cake, right? That's right. I got that on my notes. And ain't show friends a show business. Okay. I asked this, like, because you said something. Yeah. There was a story. Yes. There's such an argument online about all the spots, oh, the storytelling, cinema versus, and I don't think people realize it's both. It's everything. And when it's everything, it works. And here's the story. If it's a, if I remember, there was a tag match that followed me one time. I had wrestled Ethan Page. And I thought we did a great job and we had a crowd that was already a little contentious and I was getting booze and things were happening. But I, we, I knew we killed it. Right. But then there was a match that followed us and six people on X liked it. And it was, it was indulgent. There was no story to it. It didn't, they worked super hard. It wasn't a matter of not working. But if you're going to do the death matches we're talking about here, and we don't have to circle this forever. Right. If there's not a story, then it's just indulgent. If that makes any sense. It's 100%. Yes. And that's why I, I, I kind of have liked the ones that I've seen and yours is one that if you see yours, you may not need to see others. Like to have a story going into it afterwards though, this happens. There's photos of the hotel, the bed, all the, that would you, would you say you, you didn't regret it. Right. Not one day goes by where I regret it. Yeah. Instantly in the moment I knew this is, this is going to change my career. Okay. 100%. Yeah. And it did. It did. I don't think I'd be sitting here if it wasn't for that match. Yeah. I don't think I'd be back in WWE if it wasn't for that match and everything I did on the indie specifically GCW. Let me ask you a question because I asked Kevin this question before that happened. I was trying to go somewhere else. God bless my boy, Kevin. Uh, who do you think right now is out there who is kind of the face of the independent scene because I think you stayed a year longer than I anticipated you to say. You, if that makes any sense, I felt I stayed four years longer than I just. Like you fill a block. Oh my gosh. Look at what they're doing. You, and then it's like, okay, he's coming home. Yeah. Oh, no. All right. He's still doing it. Right. And then you found new layers. You had to. And that was the toughest part every single year. How do I, how do I top last year? How do I, you know, if you're making the towns, how do you come back? How do you get the promoter to still want to pay for you? How do you get the fans to want to get your eight by 10, your t-shirt, you know, your, your meet and greet. So you had to keep reinventing. And it was tough, but it was so much for, I love the hustle. That's one thing I miss about the WWE. I don't get to carry my merch bags. There's no merch bags. So that's the one thing I miss. You told me something about the hustle. Yeah. I don't know if you'll like me sharing this. It will probably fall into the Cody like category, but it's not. You said that you love the feeling of taking cash and putting it in your fanny pack. You said it was orgasmic. True. Yeah. It's, it's the greatest feeling in the world. Okay. Because like meeting those fans at these conventions or before. Yeah. Show. I would, I would. I wouldn't yell at the other wrestlers who were going over their matches beforehand. But I was like, guys, it's not about. Okay. It's. Yes. It's about this money. It's about making the connection with. Yeah. This one. I'm a healable, that's a cop out, right? You just know no one's beautiful. One of the biggest cop outs. Why don't you just be an absolute asshole, don't sell a thing, and then when you come out through the curtain, they'll bring you even louder. Like what are we doing here? Well, again, like story, this confusion about what it all is, and you said it best, it's everything, connection, if I didn't know someone and I met them at the table, and I'm waiting for that guy, but I met this guy, I now have someone I am rooting for. Or, man, this guy, I don't like him one bit. I now have someone I'm rooting against. It's the same thing when today, wrestling, and I've seen this at the nightmare factor, I'm sure you've seen this, everyone can do everything, it seems like. Sure, they're just getting better and better. The athletics, better athletes, better skills, the high spots are through the roof, but when I say something, I never mean it in that heavy handed, like, well, what's how's your promo? But to me, I always tell the kids at the factory, I said, that's the ticket to a career now. If you can talk in a way, not a fake sales pitch, if you can talk in a way that they are interested, I like him. That classic old school booker, name him, whoever it was, that's my guy. That's my guy, yeah, like, yeah, this one does some cool stuff too, but that's my guy. There's a connection to it, and I feel like that's something that has been very hard to say, and you know how everything is so polarizing now, you're either on one side of the fence, it's crazy when you sit in the middle and like, no, this is like Javon, Javon right now has got a reinventive style, but getting to know Javon makes you even more excited about the reinvented style. Getting to know Javon gets you more excited about the dumb thing he's gonna do, because now you have a hope that, I hope he hits it. I hope he, oh man, versus again, indulgence and just doing it for the sake of doing it. I feel very on a high horse over all this, and I'm not trying to be, but you know, because like the old time guys are like, well, it's not about the five stars, they make it so contentious right out of the gate. It's not, it's everything, if that makes any sense. I tell people on the Indies all the time when they ask me for advice, like, I say like Hogan Rock, WrestleMania 18, one of my favorite matches of all time, if not arguably one of the greatest. If you just took two random Indie wrestlers to do that match, move for move, it would suck, because it's not about the moves, it's about the connection those guys had with the audience, the story that match was telling. It's not, okay, moves are great, it's so much more than just moves, and people might hate me for saying that. Maybe I don't have so many moves. I heard somebody say, well, if you watch it with the sound off, it's not any good. And I wanted to be like, excuse my language, oh, who the fuck is watching it with the sound off? You know what I'm saying? Talking about the face of the Indies, you having stayed a bit longer than I thought, do you have someone that you're looking at right now? I have one that I just found. Okay. And I don't know enough. All right, well, can I say mine? Yes, go ahead. I have two. Yeah. And I've seen these guys all over the place, and I think effort is very important to me. Huge. Effort shaming, bro. Yeah, who's trying on social media? Tommy Invincible. Well, Tommy Invincible's great, but that's not one of my picks. Okay, okay, that's not your pick. But because I feel like, and I would say it's the guys or girls in the Indies all the time. If you don't wanna, if you wanna put your phone away for the week, WWE is gonna post about you, Netflix, WSOP, ESPN, blah, blah. Wheatley. Wheatley, right? If, if when I was on the Indies, I didn't post about me, who's gonna do it? Sure. So I would say Ben Bishop and Richard Holiday are my two guys. Okay, Richard Holiday. Who posts a lot, who advance their stories, who will do the, the cell phone promo that nobody wants to do, right? Oh, can you send me this promo? No one wants to do that, but you have to. So both those guys, Ben. Ben Bishop. And Richard Holiday. Richard Holiday are my two guys. There's many other guys and girls out there. Yeah. But they're the two that come to mind. It was actually Andrew Schultz when I was doing Street Fighter, it was the one who told me about Tommy and Vinceable. And I watched him who clearly looks like he's stolen a lot of your playbook. Well, I love to, I was just telling you. I need to, I need to look at these two guys. Here's my question for you though. Are we, are you selling two guys? I don't know enough. I clearly have gone full corporate. I'm in my own bubble now. Like I'll even put my glasses on for them. Corporate Cody. Here I am. Is, is, are they, are they good though? Like if you, are they good in terms of, cause I think the moves do matter a little bit. I think they're good. I think they're perfect WWE superstars. Okay. Does that mean though, I don't want to see a rear chin lock in 2026. You don't like holds, right? No, I love a hold because the point of a hold is not to rest. I feel like the rest hold. When I hear like a 20 year old like, oh, he's got him in a rest hold. I heard Matt Cox earlier say that Bobby Eden no sold something. And I said, let's stop. Bobby never did anything wrong in his life. He's Bobby Eden. But the point of a hold is so that the crowd catches up and digest everything and starts to come for the person that they want to are, are the point of a hold is to hang onto that heat. Now that's not happening for your guy yet to get the crowd because they are the other man in the ring. Absolutely. 100%. The other person in the ring. That's the point of hold. However, in the 90s, some of my heroes ruined holds. By throwing on that rear chin and just looking out, look at her turn this way. Look at that chick. So that, that's a nightmare factory rule. No rear chins unless you're over 50 is the joke. And we have one guy who there was over 50. He puts it on. Yeah. But there's a cry. Isn't that much different? Yeah. You know, I'm not the cry-by-guy. Yeah. It's hard to put on. What was I asking you about? And they've gone into this rest hold. Are they good, you said? Are they good? I think so. I wrestled them both. Okay. Yeah. And in their future, you think, are you helpful to those? It's hard to be in the position you're in and the position you're in now. It's hard when you see people you want to help. Yep. They need to help themselves first. Sure. But do you feel you're helpful as a buddy or as a hey? Anytime someone asks for advice, I give it. Or if there's something I can do, I give it. The one piece of advice I give everybody is, it's easy, but the advice is easy. Yeah. Don't quit. Of course. You might make it if you don't quit. You definitely won't make it if you do. And that's the advice that I would tell myself every day in the mirror. Yeah. You know, these past five, five and a half years. Yeah. Did you ever verbally say it? Don't quit. Don't quit. That's a strong image, man. Looking at it, thinking of what you were doing. There were so many times I'm thinking like, what else do I have to do? Yeah. To get back here. Like I was with SDL for a while, Step the Lander. Yeah. And I would call her. She came to meet and greet with Stardust one time, right? I think she did. Yeah. He's great. But when Chelsea left, I knew I needed a new ballet. And I'm like, okay, let me get someone different my life. A heater, someone who's tall, who can beat somebody up. And at one point I'm like, you need to get away from me because you're not getting a donut with me. Like that's, I'm like, stay away. Cause I'm like, I'm not getting back. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you consider yourself toxic. That's right. Interesting. Cause I was like, if I'm not getting back now, I ain't getting back. So get away from me. Cause I'm not your meal ticket. They don't really make them like you anymore in a sense that there are a few left. And I'm not saying it's just probably, it's cyclical, the industry. So things come back and policy changed and protocol changed. But you, you coined a term to me one time that I loved. You said, you know, I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to go tan. I'm going to be there early. I'm going to be well-dressed. I'm not going to leave at the middle of the show. God forbid I'm not going to leave at the beginning of the show. I watched the other day, I watched. The walk right by me. Where are you going? What if someone gets hurt? At least sneak out. That's the other thing. I'm almost not mad at you leaving early. You're blatantly doing it. Bro, bags by gorilla. While the last two matches go in, that's a classic. That's that. I get that. Oh, he's, I'm still here. But I won't be right. But it's making room to locker room. Just right in front of me. And then you ask like, why are the same guys on WrestleMania? I'll tell you what. That's part of it. Anyways, where were we on? I said, no, but all these things when I brought them up to you, you're like, that's crazy. That's crazy that such a judge doesn't want to do that appearance. That's crazy that. Yeah, before I came back, you were telling me some things like people like say no to things. I couldn't, it's just a different, and again, everyone has to adjust. Sure. Different. Different era. Creature comforts, different era. I'm not right, but I think the way I was trained and brought up, I value that more. Like, oh, it's cool to put in effort. I'm not gonna wear sweatpants on or run it. Right. You know, which I might have worn sweatpants on or run it. They probably had the logo on it. Of course. You know what I'm saying? It's branding. Yeah, like I, and I thought about that. And now that you're plugged into the system, do you feel a responsibility to be more of that? Are you trying to adjust to what WWE is now? No, I'm definitely gonna be myself and control what I can control. I mean, it's been said to death, but that's all we can really do at this point, right? Especially someone like me. You come in here. Like I knew coming back to WWE, like I cannot hit a home run if I'm not in the game. If I'm not even on the team, I just need to get back. Cause I can't, like I said, I can't be WWE champion if I'm not in WWE. So now that I'm here, I'm gonna do whatever I can. And if I'm not, you know, let's say one week I'm not doing much, I'm still gonna show up like I'm in the main event. Dressed to impress, so to speak. Have brand new gear or nice looking gear. Good physique, good tan. Control, I can control. That's it. I would talk about you. Shout out to Bobby Roode, by the way, cause he was watching you do your run in practice. And we were giggling. He was always saying like he's always ready. Cena too, like he's in shape and that became a thing. I went on a rant one time. We went off to circle it too long with LA Night about how do you feel about guys who don't go to the gym? And we had strong feelings about it. Let's not talk about it. But then I realized I'm like, it is a different era. It really is. And I want to kind of know like, hey, what's the new thing? Like why not? What's, is it because you've seen this or I don't know? Or is it you do it, but you don't want people to know? Cause I think a problem with you and I as we speak is we're letting everyone know, oh, here's all the things I did. You know, here's all the things. And I think that's kind of nerdy in itself. Like we get it, bro. You know, like I had my story time stamped yesterday. You see, I was in two different cities, guys. I was obviously all bad. But you gotta do that. That's my generation of, hey, not everyone knows what you're doing. Always make it clear. I hate to saying, but perception is reality. It really is. If you count yourself like a star, you're perceived to be a star. I think one of the coolest things about sitting with you in this moment, I've just kind of been uncovering it, is you, you've, we're always looking for who we are, right? Like, you know, the glasses are funny or whatever. Like, you know, I'll try things here and there. We're always looking for who we are. And I remember Chris Van Vliet of all people one time asked me, because are you always in character? And the way he said it, it almost hurt me. Because I couldn't tell. It's like, man, maybe, maybe, like maybe I just can't ever escape the idea of talking about a wrestling match or thinking about will this lean into a wrestling match? Will this help us sell tickets? It was, to this day, it's like a haunting question. But one of the things I got out of that moment was, I think I'm more than ever aware of who I am. I haven't fully discovered it, but I think I'm aware of who I am. The coolest thing about sitting here with you now is you're explaining the process. But I don't think you need the process anymore because it seems like you know who you are. Like, you're saying all these things for the, well, hey, dress for success. Perception is reality. You're saying all the things we were brought up on, but I don't think you realize it's just who you are now. Yeah, I definitely think it's just, right? It's not performative. It's not, right? You came here and you, like, this is you now. Right. I, dude, that's... Like going to the gym later after this, like it's not, it's just part of the day. It's part of the job. It's like going to the bathroom, going to the gym. And you're saying it now, so you're, you know. I mean, but that's it. No, but it's real. And I think a lot of people will say stuff to me, talking about, I remember this was a problem I had when I was away from WDB. Like, oh, you're always trying to look better than everybody. And I never meant it that way. Yes. I just, this feels like me. Well, the best version of yourself. Right. It's not, it's not your fault that someone's not... Yeah, I don't... Dressing, you know, a certain way. Again, like, Mediocrity loves company. Right. And every, what's so strange about saying, like, Timothy Chalamet was on this podcast and he's famous for the pursuit of excellence. Yes. It's not strange to pursue excellence. And I feel like, I hope people know when they see you that it's just you now. Like, yes, we keep track of it. And yeah, that's part of the daily life of a wrestler who grew up in our era of OVW and Deep South and in our era of that, that was all about, we got to do all these things, but now they're who we are. And I think, if anything, I have thought it gave me an edge over the competition. Because when I put stuff out about, hey, here's all I did. Or here's what I'm doing today, here's what I'm doing tomorrow. Part of it is a little bit of a middle finger to the others. It should be, it should light a fire up. Part of it is a little bit of, hey, this is a lonely position, but if you wanted it, right, come and get it. And like, Sina was like that, and it's weird that we didn't see it, but we did see it, you know, and then it's just a great model. 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Open to legal residents of the 48 contiguous United States and DC who are 18 and older. Sweepstakes ends March 29th, 2026. This is a paid advertisement. I wanna ask you something. Do you know the full story? Do you know the full story of when I left WWE? What happened that day? I beat you, you were star dust and quit. Yes. That's... Those are the... Those are the notes. Did we do like a Disney podcast, a theme park podcast? We did one with Jericho that day. I beat you on. Yeah, but do you know the story of me and Road Dog in that day? Do you know? You might have told me. Tell me again. Today, I love Road Dog. He's been very good as a coach for me, right? Back then, we were all learning our new things and he I think was a producer at the time. They had just become a producer. He kind of weevil wobbled in and out of it. You and I wrestled six, seven, eight times. Main event superstars. We were always happy to wrestle because it was a fresh crowd. Absolutely. Crowd was hot. What an opportunity too. Dude, like the opportunity, not fake use of the word. A real opportunity to get the crowd excited. I see that a lot today when somebody's going out for a main event match. Like I just saw Royce Keys, formerly Will Homs, go do one and I thought, man, he took advantage of that. You got it. He didn't just think of that as like, oh, this is a rep for... No, this is a rep for you. It's a way to touch this audience. He took advantage of it the same way we did. So, but we'd gone back and forth on finishes. You would go over, I would go over, you would go over. There wasn't a method to this madness. And I, to this day, love this quote because I've actually now used it. But I came up to him, I said, hey, me and Matt are wrestling and this is like the eighth time we've wrestled in three months. What do you want out of this? Like who's over? Do you know what he said? Doesn't matter, something like that. He goes, does it really matter? And I thought, no. And I remember I went to you, I was like, he wants you over, finish, you know, eight minutes, what do you want to do, whatever. And I knew that, that does it really matter. I wasn't mad at him. I was of the thought, this moment doesn't. We're about getting this crowd excited. Our narratives are not going anywhere in terms of we're not trying to build upon something that doesn't exist. And there are certain moments in wrestling that's in certain psychologies and things where it's, oh, that's so wrong or that's so right. You do find yourself in those scenarios where I have now said, eh, does it really matter? Right. You know, like, maybe overthinking the point here. But that was one of my favorite things, the fact that I could go to you and essentially lie and say, oh, he said, like, oh, you over with your friend. And then I knew, because I don't think I told you. Yeah, I don't think I told you that because, you know, the talent relations guy, that's what he said to me on the way out. He's like, I'll see you next week. And I loudly said, no, you won't. And I kept going. And then I wasn't there the next week. Same as Ayn always talks about, he was booked against me on the live events and I wasn't there. And he like selfishly is like, well, I had to wrestle. Like it's all like, buddy, I was going through it too. But yeah, I didn't know if you knew the full, like, how the day went, but it was, it's kind of, it's funny to me that it was you. It is funny. I did all your moves. The Elbro, the Woot Awakening. The Woot Awakening stall suplex. You got to give me the suplex. I counter. But you land and you always would tell people you'd give them the spacing. I need some spacing. You need some space. So remember we did it over a ladder? That was tricky one. Yeah, I didn't want to land in a ladder. Remember when you told me to give you a minute because you asked me to power bomb you and you knocked the wind out yourself or I knocked the wind out you. You might have a little snug, you know. That starred us with his signature power bomb. Well, speaking of the power bomb, what's your least favorite bump to take? Least favorite bump to take. I hate chops. That's not even a bump. Yeah. You know, chop, chop. You got me in the mood for chops. Yeah, you got me in the mood. It's gonna be like deep in the match. Like, it needs to be like a war. Well, you know what I've now, like I'm taking a chop like, Yeah. Oh, I remember like once like Mojo like snap married me on a live event. Dude, we should talk about that. He snap memory and then like ran the ropes and chopped me in the back. I just got up no-sold and slapped him in the face. Oh, do you remember your quote about Mojo? Let's not talk about anybody here. You played as much NFL football as him. That's true, zero games. Come on, I love Mojo. I love being. Well, the one of the worst matches I ever had in my life. That was a great match. In Charlotte, North Carolina. One of my favorite moments ever. Bro, busted his nose on the entrance. It's me and Mojo against you and Adam Rose. Oh my gosh. As starred us, me and then Adam Rose. He busted his nose doing his height, bro's entrance. I don't know if it was on the entrance, but I think it was during his shine. And then we have to go home because of the blood and you're hot. I was furious. I remember you walked off, you just smacked like this coffee cup out of some ladies heads. It wasn't in a lady's hands. It was on like a trash can. I was, I was, because I remember it was Charlotte. And I thought like guys, this was a major market. And I couldn't be hot at you, but that guy was like such, Oh, I don't know. I don't want to get into it. I don't know him at all. He's a great guy. Great. Yeah, no, but I, I remember thinking like, again, low after low after low, these are almost like accidental at this point that they're, when it rains, it pours. With chops, you said you, you're not a fan of chops. What I'm not a fan of the guys who now have the signature chop, but you know their chops are so much. So you go into it without thinking, like you're thinking about that chop versus, there's a couple of guys who have an old school skill of warming a chop up. And I don't even know, I didn't know that was a skill until someone did it with me recently where they gave me one, then the next one had more. And then the next one versus that first one coming across. And I thought, this is a skill. It's also a bit of like, hey, hit me, dude. I'm going to hit you, hit me, you know, and I, so interesting on the chops. I can't complain about someone hitting me because I like, I'm a little snug in there. Aaron Anderson told me I was too pretty. So I had to lay it in a little bit. Who's your favorite producer to work with? Coming back, it's been different. You know, there's a whole new crowd of guys, you know? So like back in the day, there was Arn, you know, IRS, Ricky Steamboat, right? Now it's guys that we worked, Kenny, Hurricane, you know? DeVar, Williams, DeVar, they're great though. They're awesome. Molly, yes. Yeah, all really great. So many great. Really great, really great group of producers, I think, especially on the few live events we get, we get to have those moments. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring out. I know I get too much credit for it. And I'm not trying to take credit for it, but like I'm slightly involved in the, you and Chelsea Green's connections. I gave you and Brandy credit during my, during the, Vows, my Vows. Bro, you were red faced. Yeah. Getting there. Those are good Vows. The whole, the wedding, I would say, I've told Chelsea the same, the wedding is the greatest wedding I've ever been part of. It was a New Year's Eve party that had a wedding attached to it. Yeah, I couldn't make it to the New Year's party. Well, you had work the next night. I had a Zoom. Yeah, oh, that's. Oh man. But the wedding was phenomenal. What a great day. But yeah, you and Brandy. So I'm, I just moved to Orlando as a 2017. I blew out my knee. Yeah, I remember. So I'm like, Yeah, you were in your leather jacket phase too. I always have a leather jacket. Yeah, but this was like you, you were really pushing it on everyone. Push it. It was the length of time. I felt like it was a hundred degrees out. It was January. Okay. Okay. And then you guys worked for TNA. Yeah. In Universal. It was a cowfish. Cowfish, Bergusi. Which has kind of gone downhill. I don't know if we have to touch that. I like cowfish still. Cowfish, just stepping up. It used to be like the spot. I like cowfish. I'm not knocking cowfish. I'm not knocking cowfish. Bergusi? It used to be a lot better. We grew on that. But I would say your standards are very high. Absolutely. You have very high standards. And whereas for me, like people are like, out of food at Tooth Sums, bro, it's chocolate. Sure. Well, speaking of high standards. Okay, you go ahead. You and Brandy were telling me about this girl TNA. Who was complaining about being single. I'm like, oh, I don't want to date a wrestler. I don't want to do that. And then next thing you know, we go on one date. We go on two dates, her toothbrush. She's at my house. Now she's living with me. Now we have a brand new house. Three dogs. A wonderful life. It's great. But yeah, you and Brandy definitely started that whole thing. I gotta give you credit for that. I think the highlight of the wedding for me. Okay. So we had a like production rehearsal, which was just you going, or it was a wedding planner. Actually it was going, hey, they're going to pop up over here behind the DJ booth. Act like you don't know where they're at. Did we rehearse that? Well, no, she just told us. Okay, okay. So like me and Miz were like doing this. And then you popped up with a cryo. That's right. Because it used to be, it was a nightclub. It was a nightclub turned into a wedding bed. Well, you had a vein in your head. And you were like, you were blasting this thing. This is how we do it. I'm not told you want to play it. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, was I remember just looking at your face. It was great. What a moment. This is incredible. I have a question that's probably not a podcast question. But you, one of the men in the groomed party sat next to me at the rehearsal dinner. Okay. And had commentary on everything and ripped it to shreds. Okay. And he was like my favorite. He saved the whole. Anthony Laracan. Dude, that guy. Yeah, he's a degenerate. Nobody was safe. He's great. Everybody who came up, he's like, oh, here we go. And I didn't know him. And I thought like, this guy is the best. Yeah, he's the best. Oh man. Classic. There's a lot about your wedding that we probably shouldn't touch. I remember just because there's so many stories. But I remember looking out on the crowd from the party. Yeah. You see more when you're up there, you're not, you know. And everyone's in like, you know, they're nice clothes. Hey, I know where this is going. And then there's Gallows. That's exactly. Drinking the Vegas. And he has the giant Vegas drink. And he's wearing like a chrome silver. Like he looks like the guy used to be in the front row, like windbreaker. He's wearing that and he's just slurping it. Like it's like a movie. And I thought, what a weird. What a great, what a great wedding. Thank you to everyone who came. Yeah, we got socks. Got socks? Yeah. Yeah, that was a, that was a, I still have my socks. I should have worn them today. That was an incredible wedding. Seat Geek, a huge shout out with over 35 million downloads. Seat Geek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on Seat Geek, including concerts, sports, festivals, and more. The NBA season is in full swing. Major League Baseball is around the corner. And right now you can get World Cup tickets on Seat Geek. WWE has WrestleMania coming up and Seat Geek has your back. Each ticket is rated on a scale from one to 10, so you know you're getting a good deal. Look for the green dots. Green means good, red means bad. Plus every ticket is backed by Seat Geek's buyer guarantee. You can use code CODETIN for 10% off your next set of tickets at Seat Geek. That's 10% off any tickets with promo code CODETIN. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and the code will automatically be added to your account so you can use it later. Thank you, Seat Geek. OK, Chelsea. Yes. How, what can you say about someone who's out there just blowing it away? She's just cooking. Yeah, she gets it. She knows how to maximize her minutes, whether it's a little backstage or a match. She doesn't say no to anything. She does all these appearances. I mentioned that. Yeah, you did in that meeting. But she gets it. She understands that it's way more than just what happens in that ring in between those ropes. It's everything else. It's the media. It's the appearances. It's the autograph signings. It's the social media. It's everything wrapped into one. And I think, too, this is something I discovered watching her, is it's the content within. So people think sometimes you're just checking a box doing all these things. They don't realize it's the content within. So if I couldn't get what I wanted out in an interview, I now have another platform. Or I can slide it in there in terms of content and actual thing versus just the classic, I did it. I think if you love wrestling, you just can't stop. It's a lot harder to throw in the towel. It's a lot harder to quit because all you know, all you love. Well, I think, too, there's a natural talent for it. And you both have this natural talent for storytelling. And it breaks your heart more and it makes you happy more because you care so much. The higher the higher, the lower. Exactly. Yes. You care so much. But I also think that I have seen people who I thought, yeah, no way. Or I don't know. And the next thing you know, nope, totally makes sense. You learn something new every week. And some are slow learners. Like I always considered myself a very slow learner just now putting this stuff into effect that I probably could have learned, oh, I was in the ring with Hunter. I was in the ring with Sina. I was in the ring. And then finally being able to apply at this late, I think when given the time, which you have to give yourself because you have to stay in the game, it's incredible. But this is my question. You guys are, how's this working overseas? Are you getting two rooms? I was at one room. We're sharing a room. So you don't tell the company to get you two rooms. We probably should. Yes, 100%. Chelsea does not. We have different schedules. I saw y'all, I was making a joke and I got caught in the crossfire. So my debut, my redebut, so to speak, it's kit. You invite me to the bus, have a little celebratory old fashioned. I want to enjoy. I finally made it back to WWE. It's been almost six years. Huge. I'm like halfway through. Back at it, get out of here. We got to go. Didn't come on the bus. Didn't even call the bus. Yelled from the door. That's how I knew. I had to show it by old fashioned. I just want to enjoy a drink with my friend. Yeah, no. And I want, that's going to be an adjustment, basically. Yeah, you should tell the company, always get you two rooms. So like I had to turn. Yeah, she needs to tan my back. Yeah, like I could do it by myself. But if she's there, we're easier. They're your partners. Is there something you do for her? Well, you know, like you at home, I do the dishes, you know. OK, yeah. But you're part of the road. There's in this. Yeah, on the road, there's not much I can do for. Are you excited to be back on the road with each other? It's we see each other a lot more now. Yeah, you know, when I was on the Indies, we barely saw each other because she was busy with WWE. And then I was busy to my thing. So now we see each other. We're busy together, which is nice. And you have three dogs, three dogs, three cats, three cats. I was I remember Kylo is Cat One. That's Cat One, yes. And then it just developed into now you have the Spinajury. It's a zoo. It's a zoo. Maybe a little baby one day, but not yet. Yeah, hopefully one day. A little wrestler baby. Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. That's how it works. We got to take the kids. I mean, you have kids now, bring them to Disney. Yes, speaking of you, I don't think you want to skate this issue. What's that? I had kids and because our times in life changed up. Yeah, I get up earlier. So do I get up early? You don't. OK, because we don't go to the parks ever with each other. Well, it's not my fault. And then you always make this claim. You invite me like I'm on my way to the park. I can't just drop what I'm doing for Cody Rhodes. He lives there, dude. I live there, but I plan. And here's how I know. Here's how I know it's a little bit of an aversion to children. OK, I asked you on getting on Mickey and Minnie's to hold Liberty when she was really little. You held her like this. I have a photo. You held her like you like to see the photo. You couldn't believe that this photo. This photo is not exist. It's a real photo. It's real. I'll put it in. It's a real photo. You're holding her like you don't know how to hold a child or like what children need. Like they like all this stuff we're about to do. Yeah. And I've noticed you guys still like to do the the adult park thing, you know what I'm saying? You're not about you're not about that that kid life. I do. We don't know. We told you like you don't invite me until you're there. I there was another incident that came up that I thought we were hold on. What I correct them from wrong once I was at Halloween Horror Nights with Chelsea. You were there on an RIP tour. It didn't even invite me to go on it. You came on the tour, though, for a couple of a couple of moments. I caught you. Well, I think we caught you. No, you I caught you. I think we caught you. Well, I was an invite. It's not like I said, no, I won't go. And then you caught me there. You didn't invite me. Well, I thought it was because a group of my buddies one time, they made you feel uncomfortable. Oh, they were just kissing your butt the whole day. It was like the Cody shot. I could be I could be a part of that. But it was the air basketball. Air basketball. I got you. Yeah. So for those who don't know, I renown then I'll look at somebody and I'll hold my hands like this. I said, take a shot and they shoot the basket. It's an air basketball. It's a thing. It's ridiculous. But you just weren't making any of the shots. You know, like it's not my fault that you were not making the shots. You're moving the basket. Oh, Craig, Craig, take a shot. Swish, baby. See, it's easy. You were moving the basket when I was. I don't know if I was, but I've heard you tell people like he's out there playing air basketball and the Cody show and whatever. Like, you know, it's just a bunch of guys. That was a good time. Having a good time. Paying for drinks, you know, like that. Don't start this again. I'm just saying, you know, like, you know, it's a thing. It is not. Don't make it a thing. OK. All right. Looking at WrestleMania in Vegas, looking beyond WrestleMania. Do you have any immediate goals for yourself here? Obviously, we've talked about the big one and what you would say. It's crazy to say because being back is such an accomplishment, right? But at the same time, it feels like it was supposed to happen. Yeah. You know, so it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, even though it is a huge deal. Yeah. It seems like, well, I'm supposed to be here. And I hate I hate to use the word I deserve to be here. I think I've earned an opportunity to be back here. Right. And this is the ultimate opportunity. And I don't take that lightly. So any opportunity I get, I'm going to do my best to be always ready and knock it out of the park. Would you ever do a tag team match with me? Sure. But you wouldn't wear the jacket. I would rather not wear the. You have a nightmare. I do have a nightmare family jacket. Yeah, you kept yours. I one day I will sell it on eBay. OK, great. Or maybe one day I'll burn it for a story. There you go. But I do think that, you know, I keep saying on WWE TV and social media, oh, you know, I went away and I reinvented myself. I don't think the WWE universe yet has seen who I was on the Indies. I haven't shown them who I was. Yeah, I wasn't this this nice guy slapping hands. That's not who I was on the independence. So when the time is right, I think you'll see that version of Matt Cardona, hopefully in WWE. I think, too, like to your point about that side of you, it feels like it's naturally maybe heading that direction. But also it's a whole new version as well. There is what you got there and who that was. Yeah, complete Matt Cardona, Deathmatch King, all these things, the King of the Andes, all that was one block. Right. And I know for me, it's like the American Nightmare. That was a block and then it became something else. Right. I'm so great. It evolves, you know, it evolves. And you're still evolving and getting back to like the Chris Van Vleek question of like, are you always in character? The thing that I got the most out of it was, well, at least I'm comfortable with who I am more than I've ever been. Yeah, I think it for you, I would say it's the same for me. It just doesn't stop. Like when they say cut on this and you go and you're doing whatever, you'll be thinking about SmackDown tomorrow or the next PLE or the next merch thing. And that's just how I'm wired to just it does not stop till my brain's always going. Do you we've seen a lot of retirement slowly, AJ Styles retirement, John Cena. Who's the next? Hopefully not one of us. I don't want to see. I'm not loving these retirement ceremonies. It's crazy how time really does fly. I mean, like we met when we were 21. Right. Yeah. We're four. We didn't like each other. Did not like each other for about a decade. Yeah. It wasn't until we found out we both like theme parks. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. I think I think too, probably one of the residual things of not liking each other was you were doing the edgehead thing. Yeah, we were doing legacy with Randy and there was an always not even like they weren't even in the same time. But there was a competitive nature to how you would do things with him. How we would do things like we'd get a little bit more, but then you guys got to be involved in the WrestleMania. Yeah, right. So there was always this little bit of a competitiveness. And I always felt bad because a byproduct of that, like a residual byproduct is your partner who has been your partner in business. Sure. And like Major.com. Yeah, shout out to him. Great partner, great guy, great father. Yes. I'd never liked him. Right. Because of that whole thing. I never really got that moment. Like your your wedding and a few other moments. I never really got that moment to kind of sit down and hash it out with him. But he's he's been such a big part of your career. Yeah, the the retirements and things of that nature, they've really got me thinking as to what's next and who's next. And I don't want any of those, but also something that's similar to the picture. Right. So the picture, the picture of all of us, which I did not post, by the way. I thought you did. That's a Cody lie that I posted that. I think punk actually. I've come to find out I actually believe it was punk. I posted the photo, which is fine, because he's the one who wanted to take the photo. So this is you, me, Daniel Bryan, Beth Phoenix, Kofi Kingston, punk, punk. Someone else. I've been born. Oh, what a flash. Yeah, I'm getting old. OK, so there we are. This picture taken of and there was what it was was young guys on the varsity team, basically. Look at us. Look at look at us. I see it again. And I looked around the other day and thought, oh, it's kind of happening again. I looked at Oba. I looked at Javon. I looked at trick and I started thinking up, not just showing up, not just being brought up, being brought up and you're in it now. Yep. Which is sink or swim, baby, sink or swim. And Sean seems to have developed them in such a way that I don't think any are sinking. You know, like trick is already entertaining. I'm already laughing at the things and you being part of that on the ground with it. Javon, there's a heart, like there's a connective tissue to that. Oba, whole another thing. But that's really unique to see. I hope we're good to them. I think we will. I think we will be. Because we're going to be not that people were bad to us. It was a different time. Different generation. You know, I don't know. Some were pretty bad. Well, it's like some who didn't have the right to be bad. Sure. Undertaker can kick you in the ass. You know, some others are like, what the? But I always say, like, you know, like now I can talk about my love for for collecting toys. Like, yeah. And it's not a big deal. But imagine if I went to Target on the road and got like a hardcore Holly figure and brought into the dressing room, say, Bob, can you sign this? What would have happened? Yeah. Like, just think about it. Like he would not have signed it. He would have signed it on the side. Not after after several weeks of he would have signed it on the side. I probably would have been kicked out of the locker room for bringing in that figure. Were you not kicked out of the locker room for the Internet title thing or just close? Because I know Hunter said if you brought that around in my day, we'd kick your ass, right? Something to that effect. OK, but that was the Internet championship. That's what I brought it out to pitch it. Dude, so super important. And like I'm so very, very glad. And if I could mention anything, WWE is a massive digital department, massive. They used to not have a massive digital apartment. Everyone who's been on any type of ride, whether they were doing their own exclusive content, whether they're doing a vlog, the original, I remember telling this to Matt and Nick Jackson, because of what we would do on their show. And they put all their heart and soul into it. And I was lucky to be a part of it and they edited and produced it. But I remember explaining like, hey, the forefathers of all this are Colt Cabana and you. Like the four because your show was a fully produced, again, invested in. I don't know if you want to speak to like. Well, it wasn't the first. It wasn't the first web show. There was like Miz and Morrison had something. Yes, you know, had something. But I was the first one to do it myself, film it myself, ride it myself, edit it myself. I use the term fund, fund it myself. Of course, use that term loosely. But I did it all on my own. But that was building the connection with the audience. It was all to get. I didn't want a YouTube show. Yeah, I wanted the fans to connect to me, you know. And how many episodes did it get? 100 episodes and a music video. Is that included in the episode? Hoski is not included in that series. It's a standalone. OK, that's a standalone, standalone piece. I'm I'm very proud of that YouTube. Without that, you know, I would have been released in 2011, probably. And indies were a different time then you get released 2011, 2012. It's not like how it is today. Yeah, the social media and you can like build this buzz and build your brand. Yeah, I've been dead in the water. Does the show ever come back? I don't think they're back. I mean, I think maybe we do like a reunion. Right. It never comes back like we reunion would be really cool reunion would be cool. Now, especially that everyone's seen it. And I feel like maybe even getting triple H involved in the reunion a little bit. I love that. There's a lot of characters that were parodied and you climb it over the fence. I'm trying to get over. I think a reunion would be hot. I think I think it would be very hot. This reminds me. And of course, I should have started because this this is all over the place because we have a relationship already. This reminds me of the fact that one of my last memories of my first run here was laying ass first in this ladder that had been broken on the side of the ring in, you know, AT&T Stadium. And I got to watch you and your dad have a moment in the ring when you won the Intercontinental Championship, which that story I can't tell on this. But because there's wrestlers who one day it'll happen. Oh, oh, the rehearsal. The rehearsal is the day that's coming out one day. I have to say for this book. Yes. But the one person, there's one. I got to get a sign off on it because he don't look great. Yeah. But that was everyone. Everyone in that match was excited. Almost every day. OK. That was exciting. We're not. I'd say one. But fair enough in this sitting. But I I I got to watch that moment with you and your dad. And I remember thinking like, I'm so happy for him. Your dad's been a big part of your journey throughout the business. Yeah. In terms of from the beginning, he does. He introduced you to wrestling. So like my earliest memories as a kid are watching wrestling. I don't remember the first match. Yeah, like I just every memory involves wrestling, wrestling figures going to shows, right? So my dad was always support my mom, too. But my dad's in my first indie show, like holding the camcorder, right? And then WrestleMania, when I win that ladder match, like Ziggler says, come on, OK, just hops the guardrail. And he's been at so many shows that security knew who he was and didn't tackle him. Thank you. Yeah. And I'm on the top of the ladder and I look down. I see him like, what the fuck is he doing out here? Yeah. I get down there. I hug him, big hug. He takes the WrestleMania cowboy hat, puts it on my head and like, get this shit off me. You know, like looking back, it's like the greatest moment of my career. Sure. You know, and then when I got fired, I was actually looking at a photo of that thing and, all right, everything's going to be OK. Yeah. And everything was. Well, I always tell people when if you had a spot like that and you had a moment like that, you can get back to one. Yes. You know, you have your downs and you have your moments where you maybe you're not putting in the work, maybe you're not like it's maybe it's self you cross it. But if you ever did it, don't count that person out. Like that's the classic. If you ever want to see what a man can do, ask him what he's done already. Right. Same with a woman, of course, like you'd see what they've done. That's a prime example. You get 80,000 people who lost their mind over you pulling. I think it was 100,000, actually. Well, that one, that fire marshal kickback. All right. That's a great story, by the way. But yeah, no, I just I remember thinking that was such a cool memory and it's so nice to be part of and your dad. What was your what was your arena that you'd go to grown up? NASA Coliseum on Long Island or a massive square garden? Yeah, the apple. Yeah. And favorite was Razor Ramon, one of your favorites. Razor was definitely one of my favorites. Of course, like, you know, grew up loving Hogan and Macho. But Razor was my guy for sure. You have that great photo where he's holding the title, right? Yeah, so I was at WrestleMania 10 MSG. He wins the title in a ladder match. I see title and a couple of months later, I took a photo with him and he's gives me his title, right? And then after I won a mania, I found him and we took the same photo, but he's holding my title. It's like no writer wrote that, you know, like that was real life. And that's the that's the good stuff. It's it's like I have both of those in my office, both those pictures. What did you think of WCW growing up? I loved it. Yeah, I was a WCW guy, New York guy. Yeah, yeah, but I watched it, of course. Yeah, you were getting magazines and everything like that. 100 percent the figures, the globes, the figures weren't the best, though. That while they're in terms of the vibrating figures, no, those were in in terms of your figure like Pantheon and your is Greg still the Grail? Greg the Hammer Valentine, rhythm and blues. Yes, he's the the number one. And for those who don't know, it was never released. Unreleased. Yes, it's from the R.S. W Magazine. Things like 90, 91 rockers are on the cover. Get all the new tag teams at Toys R Us. And then rhythm and blues doesn't come out. How many people were bitten for that, Greg? I've often accused you of creating the market for the. There's a few out there, but I have the one from the actual ad on the shot. Yeah, you know, it's something nice that you do for me. What's that? You always send me stuff I would on paper say I don't want. And then I get it and I'm like, oh, nine times out of ten, you don't even say thanks for saying this. No, because we're real friends. I don't need to say. I'll even don't begin. Like I have a dusty mold. Yeah, that you recently sent to me. That's a prototype. Yeah. And I thought like that's so cool. Put it up right by his box. You know, that's that's always nice. So you collect all your friends, figures. I do not. Not anymore. I never did. You can never leave your friend on the pegs. You can't leave a friend on the back. He can leave one on the peg, though. Yeah, I want to show that he's made it. Yeah, it can't be a peg warmer. Yeah, you know, who's your current peg warmers? Oh, I can't. We can bleep it out. I can't bury people. I. A peg warmer is something if you go to Target or Walmart and there's just tons of that person. They're just there to warm in the pegs. Nobody wants to buy them. You can't leave your friend. You can't leave your friend on the pegs. You leave one. So, you know, OK, it's probably. I know my peg warmers. I will not say it. Yeah. But I said, I think sometimes on the pegs, the legends, you got a young kid they may not know. That is the introduction to them, perhaps. And also, there's tons of figures. Our partners all do a great job. It's unbelievable. And now you got to be careful because sometimes you might see a lot of you. You're not a peg warmer. You're a top, you know, top picks. Oh, OK. Where they just because if a kid just watches WD for the first time, yeah, they have to go get Cody. You have to be on the pegs, you know, so you have to be there. OK. So they purposely stock you and some others overindexed in terms of they overindexed certain things. Literally called top picks. Top picks. They just send guys, you know, my my wife's store in Roswell, Pinkerton's, she has a she went up and like through the actual system through Mattel to get some figures. And it's so crazy to see a cake savior Woods and Tiffany Straden and these figures at her store. That's really nice. But behind behind Greg are in thinking of Greg Valentine, your grail. Is there another one out there you're trying to get? No, fortunately, I have everything that I want, but there could certainly be a prototype out there that doesn't that you don't know about. You know, I like the for instance, is a diesel like the head I have and the artwork. But is there a prototype is unreleased? Got to find that out. Who knows if it's out there. When terms of do you still look at your I mean, Randy Orton of all people who you wouldn't think would be a toy, I think he was the one to tell me a $400 or whatever it is on a paratites or 600. It's the best investment you ever make. New figure, new figure. And I thought, oh, Toyota, but that's right. Do you think about Toyota when you think about your gear still 100% especially like on the Indies when I could control everything literally like I have my own toy company major.com. Yeah, I would plan out put it there. I would plan out outfits, you know, and drop the figure like on the Indie show. Right away. There was one show. I came out of Jurassic Park Jeep in Jurassic Park inspired gear. There it is. It's important to know. Yeah, inspired. Yeah. But when I come out in the Jeep, the lower there's a lower third on Indie show promoting my new figure that has been planned for months. Yeah. I don't know if I can do that stuff here, but on the Indies when I free reign, I was able to do all that stuff and always plan ahead. I think one thing I was bumped with you a little bit on, but you liked and I also liked, but I just don't I didn't know if I knew how to go about doing it. Was you you liked a little bit of inspired a little bit of cosplay like sure, winking and not winking and not. Yeah, if you know, you know, but if you have you discovered because I tell people all the time at this point, I'm like, don't cosplay you. You yes, if they're coming, dressed as you, you've now no longer need to dress as others. Yes. Do you feel you've you've kind of hit that that point where those inspired moments are or I think they're a thing of the past unless something comes up, you know, like you're doing some cool stuff like with the actual Street Fighter movie. What if you do some Street Fighter official gear? Yeah, I don't think that'd be beneath you to be promoting the movie that you read. You know what I'm saying? Wow. That's OK. A lesson from you. I wanted to ask you this speaking to movies again. This is going to be the most all over the map podcast in existence because you are a big Star Wars fan. I am. And we've talked about I think I didn't consider you a big Star Wars fan, but then you're you have one on me. OK, what's that? Galactic Star Cruiser. That's right. You have that on me. I never went. I went. Yeah, you went. One of the greatest experiences ever. Do you feel so bold as to rank the movies? Like all the movies, the nine main movies. Yeah. I mean, you can count the other. I'm not going to rank them all here. Yeah. Can you can you give me your top two? I'll give my top two. Give me your top two. OK. But you have to start with a new hope. Like you can't. How can that be not your number one? Because without that, there's nothing else. It's not my number one. But I agree. OK. If you're looking at it from that criteria. You're going to think I'm crazy with number two. What's number two? Force Awakens. I don't think you're crazy. I love it. You're picking very similar movies. I love it. I do not. I'll say this spoiler. I do not love eight nine. Yeah, like those are my bottom two. You you had a fit fit. You had a fit over Luke. Oh, he threw the lightsaber. You had a the whole Force Awakens ends with this moment raise. Put out the same. The mountain. Yeah. Then the next movie such as throws it away. Yeah. Disrespectful. I I'm a huge fan of last Jedi. So I had to kind of just listen to you and hear it and let you, you know, that that fandom is very aggressive. Yeah. In terms of what they like. Even Disney now is going back. They're changing Galaxy's edge because I heard a little old coming in. Right. Well, because enough people didn't like seven and eight. Well, so let's we're seven, eight. I don't know if it's that so much. And do you know that Liberty doesn't know Yoda? What are you doing as a father? She just knows Grogu. You don't have a watch. It wouldn't matter to her. It's Grogu. She's for Yoda is Grogu. She's for her head. In her head. He's just another. He's another Grogu. He's all Grogu. That makes sense. Yeah. They time does go on. Yeah. And I'm saying that you got to evolve. We have a disagreement often about you like to keep things. You want back to the future to come back. I think it's coming back. Right. I want I want them. Oh, because past the fierce. It's so well. I want them ripping the ground out and new. You have no sentimental. I am. I am ruthless. I get Disney. I get it. It's not a museum. Change things up. Yeah, I get it. But you can pay respect to the history. We do that here in WWE. Dude, put King Kong in the gold room there on mum. There he is. I got it. It's the greatest right of all time. Mum is a great ride. Yeah. But it's time. It's time. I agree when it's time. It's time. But sometimes things are timeless. OK. Fair. Fair. Fair enough. Fair enough. The difference between being outdated and timeless. Like I think. Yeah, but you going to Universal and getting openly hot that the DeLorean is that what it's called by the Bush? You know, come on. You know what it's called by the Bush is. It's by the Bush and having a picture in front of it every time. Why is it by the Bush is I mean, where else is it going to be? Right in the middle, front and center, photo op for you. For you. What about those kids who are coming to see the minions and get banana popcorn? That's a different area. Yes, but I'm saying like it's you got to lead with stuff they like time does move on. I agree. I agree. Sometimes can be timeless. My guest here, Matt Cardona, he is indulging in the Wheatley American vodka with me. I like to consider myself and Wheatley American vodka. The dream team. I ask everyone who comes on here, what is your dream team? What makes up your dream team? I'll give you a couple. So you don't have to go out of your like think crazy about it. We've had everything. Sure. We've had animals. We've had all sports teams. We've had some people just said survivor series team, war games team, zombie apocalypse, put a number on it, whatever you want to be. Who is on your dream team? Who's coming with you? Dream team do what, though? That's a great question. Are we going to theme parks? No, I'd say dream team because something you brought up and I didn't want to be mushy. That's all right. I didn't want to be emotional. We brought up something. You said you came back to be WB champion. Yeah. And like I think it's OK with cameras here to tell you. I hope I hope that happens. Oh, thank you. But also like as your friend, I'd like to hold you to it. Yeah, because. You were very much of a hold me to it. And you were a very celebratory person in terms of I would do something and I knew it was this is big. Yeah, I just be Braga Lesnar in Puerto Rico. This is big. And I remember you telling me like you're always just there for it. So I'd hope to hold you to it. And I appreciate I hope that happens. A world championship WB championship, a world championship within WB and the flagships of these shows. When I say your dream team in your career as you move forward, who is essential like Wheatley American Vodka is to me, who is essential for you? So we have how many people we're picking? I'd say four or five or WB. You can buddy, we've we've been over the map. And it's OK. If we do, let's say five people, I'll pick. Chelsea Green, number one, need that number one, number one. You know, I'll throw you in there, Cody. You know, you can politics for me. Give me a. I'm getting my glasses on. Hey, we have the TNA partnership now. Say Brian Myers, somebody who's loved that. I can get to know him from day one. Yeah, yeah, I love that from NYWC to winning tag team titles to podcast. Major rest of her podcast, collect major dot com. Lower third. We'll do we'll do all of it. Let me get a. Since we also have the TNA partnership, little Nick Nemeth, the wanted man. Oh, man, OK. The wanted man. So you've got Ziggler, you've got Myers, you've got me, you've got Chelsea. And I can't believe I'm saying this, but awesome. The Miz. I throw in the Miz in there. Yeah, the Miz can do it all. He's always there if I need to pick his brain about something, you know, sometimes he won't respond to a text for a couple of days. I consider myself one of the worst textors ever. Yeah. And you're a big, like leave on red guy. Yeah. Yeah. Also, some people I set the profile so they know. Yeah, like me. Some people I like me. Yours does not come up as red. It does. It does. Yes. Oh, OK. All right. Yeah, that's a great team. Yeah. Yeah. That is a great team. I don't know what this team is for exactly, but yeah, sure. I think you probably need a. I'm not telling you who to put on your team, but I would put a younger young guy. Then I would say if we're going to throw a little bonus kit, Wilson, I always I always say in like 2011, 2012, the car would have been me, Ms. Morrison, Ziggler and Kit. Oh my gosh. His kit wants it. He would have been driving. He would have been driving. He would have been driving. But he would have been carrying our bags. But he wants it. He you can just tell he puts in the extra effort. Yeah. I've seen his like his his power points. Yeah. And goes to the gym. Yeah. He's clean. He likes it. He lives it. He lives. He's a pro wrestler. Dude, but one thing I want to point out to you and this is probably the most important like discovery for me today. And I hope you know, you do all the right things, right? And you know all the right things to do and you put in the effort. But also you do them for the right reason. It's not just like, you know how this works. It's not it's not you get the math advice for the sake of it. It's not a math problem either. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes like the industry is crazy. I'm playing with those. Yeah. Things happen. Things it's we get lucky. Yeah. We things like that happen. I just hope you know that it's not just the fact that you check those boxes. It's the fact that you're very good at what you do. And it's also the fact you're great at what you do. It's the fact that you connect with the audience, which you don't do it to sell them. No, you don't do it to. Oh, I remember it makes me so mad when someone said, oh, you got a fan for life. That wasn't why I did it, though. I did it because I was feeling it. I want the fan for life, but not because I want their money for life. I want their support for life. I want them to be on the journey with me. The ups and downs for life. Like if you're a fan of Zach Ryder, Matt Cardona, you've been on one hell of a. Oh my gosh. You know what I'm saying? Like with more. More than loads. But yes, with a lot more to come. A lot more to come. Like you were like when I at that GCW deathmatch, like the amount like there was a small portion of like Matt Cardona, Zach Ryder fans who came and they took this giant picture on like the New York, I'm sorry, the New Jersey boardwalk. Like I had to be fighting their way out of that. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. Oh, there's a jingle here. Again, we're here at the Buffalo Trace distillery. Thanks to Wheatley American vodka. I'm going to play this for you. Okay. And I'm going to ask you to replace one word in it. Okay. Wheatley, so good. I drink it neatly. That's our. Yeah, I got you. That's our. Yeah, our tag there. Yeah, if you could replace that Wheatley, so good. I drink it. Well, Matt Cardona is the complete. So obviously I would drink it completely. Here's to that. Yeah, here's to that. Jail nailed it. One last thing for me to you. Well, two things. Two things. I love you. I love you too. Hey, when we doing a little dinner date at California Grill, buddy, I use you shame the fact that I get there and tell you I you have. You're busy. Not that. But you can tell me like I am that. But you can tell when I tell you, you know, when you're going to be there in a week. You're not just going the day before. Trust me, it comes up. Also, Cali Grill is right there. Like you live there, dude. So yes, my expectations of you coming are a little but like whenever. Yeah, when it's it's owed for sure. Okay. It's old, but one last thing. Yeah, just stay where you're at. Oh, no. Bro, thank you, chef. There we go. I'm not just I'm not taking the shot. I'm not taking the shot. I'm begging you. Switch. Oh, thanks, buddy. Appreciate you. Oh, man. Wow. That's on what do you want to talk about? My friend, Matt Cardona. Thank you so. Thank you.