In the days episode, I'm going to teach you how to talk to someone you completely disagree with on every level. That's looking at you, family members at the dinner table. And here's the takeaway I'm going to tell you right now. You don't have to agree with them ever. All that more. Come on up. Let's go. Welcome to the Jefferson Fisher Podcast where I want to mission to make your next conversation the one that changes everything. If you're listening to this podcast, my guess is because you want to be a better communicator and in turn improve your life. So that's exactly what my promise is to you. In exchange, what I'm going to ask for is that anywhere you're listening, would you please press the button, subscribe. It's a very low lift. It'll take one second, but it really makes a difference to me and my family and the mission that I am continuing to serve with passion. This episode is brought to you by Kozy Earth. I love Kozy Earth. I've been a sponsor of this podcast for a long time now. Why? Because they put out really good stuff when it comes to anything that is Kozy is the best way to put it. And I mean, the name is right on the nose. When I wear their sweaters, their hoodies, the sweatpants, even just a regular like dress pants that they look like dress pants, but they're not. They're towels, their bed sheets, all their products are premium. You will not regret it. If you are somebody that is at the age where you value a good set of towels, you need to go to Kozy Earth. Listen to me. I'm here at dot com slash Jefferson, you go Jefferson and get 40% off. And now back to the episode. If you want to talk to someone, you completely disagree with. Here's what I want you to do. We're going to get right to it. Number one, don't argue the opinion. Identify the need. Identify the need. Number two, shift from proving to understanding. And number three, water your own garden. Don't waste your water trying to water their bad seeds. All right. Water yours and they'll get curious why yours is doing so well. Water your own garden. We're going to go into depth on those. Number one, don't argue the opinion. Identify the need. Let's go deeper on that. What does that mean? So many times in conversation, you are, let's say you're at the dinner table and you have family members in laws, whatever it is. And somebody brings something up and there's also an attention in the room. They go, oh, God. Oh my gosh. They just, they went there. They talked about it. They talked about that candidate. They talked about that platform, that opinion, that whatever it is. Maybe you think it's an old mindset. It's an out-of-date mindset. It's not a nice, it's not good to bring up. It's not cooothed. Whatever it is, it's going to bring you tension. Right. You start arguing the opinion. You're arguing the very top, the tip of the iceberg. We get caught in trying to argue somebody's opinion. If they were to say, well, I believe that so and so is the best for this. Or they obviously, this issue in our country is the worst it's ever been. And you want to argue, no, it's not. Actually, we need this and you have this different opinion. You're just talking about the tip of the iceberg. What breaks that down is that you're never going to get them to come your way and you're never going to get to theirs. You don't have to share their opinion to have a valuable conversation. What you have to do first is identify the need. The tip of the iceberg, what's the bottom of it is the need. It usually has to do with safety or control or fear, typically fear of change. If you choose not to hear their words as, I cannot believe they want to vote for that person. Instead, you hear it as they're afraid of change. They have a fear of this. They have a fear of that. It was told to me once that nobody says anything for the purpose of being wrong. Nobody has an opinion, gives an opinion for the purpose of being wrong. Even the people who begin with, I could be wrong about this. They never think they're wrong about it. Do they? No, they always think that they're right. If you go from that mindset, instead of looking at the tip of the iceberg, instead of the tops of the trees, you're looking at the roots of what is the need. It's their need for safety for people around them, for their own safety. It is all based in fear in that or what their value is and how for kids or for their life or how people should do and live and things that really should have no effect on them whatsoever. Yet, they've decided they're going to have a big opinion on it right now. What you're hearing is fear of change. Things should be better. They are always better back in the day. If it was just how it was back when I was a kid, it's always a fear of change. This is never a topic that's going to expire. How do you talk to somebody you never going to agree with at any level? Don't argue the opinion. That's going to go nowhere. Instead, identify the need. What does that sound like, Jefferson? What does that sound like? It sounds like you saying, I agree. This is worth talking about. I can hear that you really care about the safety of this. I can hear you don't want things to change. Or maybe it's as simple as I hear that safety is a big thing for you. I hear that this political ideal is important to you. I hear how the future of this country is important to you. How you begin to simply acknowledge the need rather than arguing the opinion. Another one, it sounds like you really care about this. It sounds like you really care about this. You know what they're going to say? Yeah, I really do. And all of a sudden, you're going to start to break down that it's a deeply rooted need that they have, typically for control. That's what you're hearing. Don't argue the opinion. Don't even address that. Instead, identify the need. Ways that I even like to explain that is I might say, I agree, but I go macro, not micro. So I might say, I agree. This is worth talking about. I agree. That's one way to look at it. I agree that's an opinion. I might say, that's hopeful to know. That's, well, you know what? That's hopeful to know. Or I might thank them. Hey, well, thank you for sharing that. You say, I'm not having to agree with anything that they said. I'm just acknowledging the need that they have that is deeply rooted need. If you only respond to the opinion, they will argue you forever. If you only disagree or argue the opinion, they will push it forever. I can promise you that is a conversation at the dinner table that will last months if not years if you continue to push on that. But if you identify and discuss and talk about the need, the issue underneath, you can actually make progress. You can actually make progress. That's where you want to go. Number two, be more interested in understanding rather than proving. Proving is this mindset of, no, you have to agree with me. No, I have to make you understand my way. You know what? I can't even, I can't even write my mind around how you could possibly think this. Are you kidding me? You actually think, is that ever going to make anybody agree with you? Whenever you come on the offensive to prove something, are you kidding me? Do you really believe this? The more you tell somebody they're wrong, the more convinced they are that they're right. Or they all of a sudden claim up and go, well, I'm not going to share my opinion with you. This is what I believe. So I don't care. Evidence doesn't work. Facts don't work. Why? Because you're only hitting the opinion, you know, identifying the need like we talked about in number one. So what do you do instead of trying to push, push, push, improve, prove, prove? Because you know what that feels like. What does that do? That makes you harden even more. Instead, ask questions that help open up understanding. These are not questions that begin with why? That will kill it instantly. Why do you think that? Why do you believe that? Yeah. Okay. What about anything that challenges the why to make them explain an edifensive posture? What if I begin with what how when where? Those are what they call open-ended questions, open-ended questions. So if I were to say, how long have you felt this way? Oh, well, you know, I felt this the first time in, oh, what, what happened there? Where, where did you hear this? You hear how I'm not going, you hear right? Okay, you explain to me how X, Y, and Z that's going to claim up, right? But if I were to say, where did you, where'd you learn this? How long have you felt that way? And I'm actually interested in understanding. They will explain to you more. And what's going to happen in that thread? You're going to go, huh, okay, there's the, the need of something that happened to them probably that they just believe. And sometimes it, especially I would say in the political area, you see all the stuff where they like, they interview people on the street, right? And they try and catch them on something and they might mention something of a different political candidate. And all of a sudden the person who's being interviewed is talking like they know and it's actually inaccurate information. It's because people have opinions that are based on feelings based on the inner needs, not typically based on facts. So that's why evidence doesn't work. Moving to them saying, look at this piece of paper. How could you possibly look at this report that came out? That doesn't work because it doesn't address the inner need within. So when you ask the opening questions to get them to open up to you and help you understand, it helps identify the need. And it makes them feel acknowledged a de-escalates a situation and it helps have a productive conversation that actually moves rather than just creating a big mess where somebody has to get up from the table and walk away because you know what, I'm over this, you're never going to change. I want to take a quick second to tell you about gusto. Let's be real. Nobody starts a business because they love paying payroll. I definitely didn't. And when I first started hiring people to help me, I was drowning in tax forms and spreadsheets and trying to make sure everyone got paid right and on time and you want to do the best for your people. It just is difficult, especially if you're running a new business. I have personally used gusto for four different businesses and it's been the best platform I could ever use. Gusto is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote friendly and incredibly easy to use. So you can pay higher on board and support your team from anywhere. It handles all your taxes. If you have people remote out of state, it does all that for you too. And one of the best things about it is that they have certified HR experts on call for the tricky stuff, the things you might have questions about. And you can run unlimited payrolls for one full flat monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises, just straightforward help for people who wear a lot of hats. Try gusto today at gusto.com slash Jefferson and get three free months when you run your first payroll. That's three free months of free payroll at gusto.com slash Jefferson. Number three, water your own garden. Water your own garden. I love this illustration in my mind because so much peace can be had. If you're somebody who gardens, you know what kind of peace that brings up. We've had gardens. And it is you tend to it. You pay attention to it. You protect it and you water it. And so much of conversation is understanding I can only tell it to you. I can't understand it for you. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to water my own garden, meaning I'm going to make sure my people are protected. By protecting my peace, I also protect my people, the people who care about me, the people that need me in the right state of mind, who need me to be present. If I am so worked up about opinion of yours that will have no impact on my life whatsoever at this meal or at this gathering, right? I've lost sight of the fact that I have a beautiful garden. If I start arguing against your opinion, what I do is I get my water hose and I'm all of a sudden I'm trying to water yours when they've planted bad seed. What's that going to grow? It's going to grow thorns. It's going to grow animosity. It's going to grow contempt. And all of a sudden what could have been a five minute conversation of acknowledging the differences, there is now five years of a strange man. That's what happens. That's how quick it happens. When you understand that they can have their own opinion and have their garden, let them have it and you have yours. So you can hear conversations from them and say, you know what? I'm not trying to change your mind or you know what? I know I'm not going to change your mind. I just want to hear what you have to say or I appreciate what you're sharing. I know we're not going to see the eye to eye on this. But you know what? We do make eye to eye on whatever topic that you know that you agree on. Choosing when to go into that conversation, knowing when to get out of it, usually we just get very stubborn. We get really stubborn. We try to go to number two. We just prove, prove, prove, and that does nothing. So remember when it comes to watering your own garden, that there will be an end to the conversation and there certainly can be a place for meaningful dialogue. What I playfully like to say is if somebody is trying to have some kind of conversation with me, whether it's, if it's something I know I disagree with, I might easily say, you know what? I'd rather hear about you. To ask me a question that's kind of, it's simply teeming up. It's me saying, well, I'd rather hear about you. Nobody gets mad if I suggest talking about themselves. I've never had that once. They go, oh, they kind of laugh as if like, all right, I understand we're not going to go there. And sometimes, you know, even like my grandparent, my grandfather, he will try and spark these arguments just for fun. They can get me really worked up and done, done bother him at all. Maybe you can relate to that. And it's me having to choose to just water my own garden. I love him. I'll always love him. That doesn't mean they have to agree with everything that he says. Okay. What do we got? Number one, don't argue the opinion. Identify the need. Go deeper. Number two, instead of talking to prove, talk and respond to understand. Again, we're going layer to layer, layer. And number three, water your own garden. Protect your own peace. Help you walk in over and start trying to pick their weeds. All right. Water your own garden. And that's the key to a lot of peace in your life. All right. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season. I know that's coming up on us. And if somebody is talking about something, you completely disagree with on every level. Remember this episode. So you can try that and follow me.
