I learned that meeting people in the middle is not easy. Meeting people in the middle, compromising is not an evil thing. It is sitting down and talking to each other. Don't give up on the idea that we can come together on something. It might not be on politics, but let me tell you what it can be on. We can come together on purpose for the next generation. Innovative, iconic, passionate. Our guest today is the co-founder and chairman of GSDNM, one of America's most influential marketing and advertising agencies. When you have a mighty purpose and your purpose is to help every one of your clients, you will not only have a great life, but you'll make a big difference. He's a Wall Street Journal best-selling author and the creative mind behind the iconic tagline Don't Mess With Texas. Don't Mess With Texas. In 1971, Roy and three fellow graduates from the University of Texas launched their company GSDNM with $5,000 in a dream. My job is to take dumb ass ideas and make them brilliant. Under Roy's leadership, GSDNM became a powerhouse partner to some of the world's most influential brands. Southwest Airlines, Walmart, BMW and the PGA Tour. Follow your passion, follow your purpose. Roy has built a career around the belief that marketing should be a force for good. If you can dream it, you can build it. Be kind to everybody you meet, because everybody's fighting some kind of battle. Get ready. This interview will change the way you think about marketing, entrepreneurship and the American dream. Welcome back to the Mellow Millionaire. Today I'm in Austin with Roy Spence. Known for his wit, wisdom and Texas-sized charisma, Roy's inspired audiences around the world to make a difference, not just a profit. Roy, let's go all the way back to 1971. Four college graduates, $5,000 in the bank and no real business plan. How did you just talk about the beginning? Tommy, you know a lot about this stuff. If you're a dreamer and you're an entrepreneur, and I think entrepreneurship is the miracle of America, if we really go and try it, if you can dream it, you can build it. I grew up in a small town called Brownwood, Texas. It's about 140 miles from Austin. I went to UT and that was the moment between Ozzie and Harriet and the Vietnam War, the world changed. Finally, one of my guys said, well, why don't we go into advertising? And Tommy and I said, great, what's that? I was 19. I had no idea. So I went down to the bank, brand new tie-dye T-shirt. Tony Tell was looking great. Not anymore, but anyway. I was 19. So I just sat down at the chair. He tapped me on the shoulder and he said, young man, you have an appointment and I went, no, but you're not like busy. So you see what do you need? $5,000 to start a business. What's your business plan? And I told him and it's still on our wall. We want to stay together, stay in Austin, make a difference and get rich. And he loaned me the money. You know what the real story is? 20 years later, Tommy, I bit this place and I walk up and a guy said, see that old man by the window with a cane. Do you know him? I went, yes, sir. Robert Snead, a lawyer, kind of mentor of ours. He said, you remember that $5,000 you borrowed? He co-signed that note and never told you. He wanted you to believe you got it on your own and less than learn. Somebody helps you, you help somebody else and then we started the business. We didn't know anything about advertising, so we didn't break the rules. We just made them up. What we loved was, and we learned this, is that in marketing, you can use marketing as a force for good. You really can. And we didn't know any different. We were kids. We were in the business to build our clients' business. And that never had been said in marketing before. And about three or four years into the deal, I get a call from a guy named Herb Kelleher. And he had heard about us and he said, son, you know who I am? I went, no. And he said, well, come see me. So I drove to San Antonio. Herb is a founder of Southwest Airlines. He had 28 airplanes. I was 28 years old. We talked for two hours and he finally said, son, do you drink? And I went a lot. So he pulled out a man ace jar of Mascal. So I hadn't had Mascal since because we drank it all. But he said, what business are we in? And I said, well, I don't think you're in the airline business. And he said, what are you talking about? I said, you tried three times at Supreme Court to deregulate the airline industry because only rich people could fly. 15% of the American people had flown. I don't think you're in the airline business. I think you're in the freedom business. Someone has the freedom to fly. Because of you today, Southwest Airlines is a symbol of freedom. It's a moment in time with your marketing when you find something. Like when we came up with Dean, you're now free to move about the country. We wrote that because we remembered that every airline had a Dean. You're now free to move about the country. When they were landing or whatever it was. And every time people would hear the Dean, they'd think of Southwest, even if they were flying united. We still do represent him 45 years. He taught me one great lesson. And you'll love this. I think, Tommy, take the competition seriously, but not yourself. It's pretty profound. I mean, a lot of people, you know, I was with a guy yesterday and he talked about cold calling, going down the yellow pages, building business. And I just found if you take care of people, I'm not saying this to be conceded or my ego, but I want your dreams to come true. We learned that if you treat your people right, they treat the customer right. And if the customer doesn't like you, you get fired. But if they love you, they promote you. And that's what happened to our little company. People would, I got a call, a collect call from Sam Walton. He said, oh, Roy, I like you because my dog is named, oh, Roy, you come see me. So long story short, BARD Money got to Bentonville, Arkansas. He's sitting there. I have a briefcase with nothing in it. And I put it in. I'm Sam's over there. Mr. Sam, I'd never been there. This is Walmart. I'm 30 years old. And he had heard what we did with Southwest. So finally he looked at me and said, oh, Roy, I love you, but where's the rest of your staff? And I'm staring at him. I have a briefcase of nothing in it. And my knees are shaking. Just I said, well, Mr. Sam, there's an old saying in Texas, one riot, one ranger. What kind of problem you have? Sam Walston, Tommy, fell on the floor and grabbed me and he said, oh, Roy, you're hired. And again, when we were talking, Mr. Sam, I was back there recently. And I'd say you have to advertise because he didn't want to. Because if you don't, you're going to cheat the ordinary citizen out of being able to buy the same stuff as rich people. And he went, you're right. And so we introduced Save Money with Better. You know what I just realized, Roy? There's another Roy that lives here. He's called the Wizard of Ads and I spent a day with him. He got his big thing with Rolex and jewelry type stuff. And he did it in front of me. He's like, imagine a time when you're faced against everything. You're hiking. You reach the pinnacle of success. You're looking down. You've just hiked Mount Everest. Rolex, you deserve it. You ain't bad, buddy, but he was, he was special. Yeah, we laugh sometime because, you know, Roy Rogers kind of killed our name. Roy, there's not many Roy's, but I'm glad mine is. You've also coined the phrase, don't mess with Texas. Tell me about that. So we, they, we, they were asked to pitch it and we were competing with Don't Pallute, Give a Hoot. My partner, Tim McClure, reached down and got a fudcicle or whatever it was and wrote on it, this isn't litter, it's trash. And he wrote, don't mess with Texas. Don't mess with Texas. We reduced litter by 76% through marketing. And you know what? Willie Nelson sang it. We had everyone volunteering. It was the most run PSA in the history of America. Don't mess with Texas. And then what we found, every TV in the station in the kind of, in Texas called us and said, can we run it for free? A moment, what'd you say, free? Because then Willie did it and George Forman did it. And the Dallas Cowboys did it. And it's not just politics. It's a moment in time with your marketing when you find something. Such a good slogan. You've worked with CEOs from Southwest, Walmart, John Deere, BMW, PGA. What did you learn about leadership for sitting at those tables? What are some of the common denominators that you've seen and see today? What makes a great leader? Great leaders, first of all. Have discovered what they were born to do, not supposed to do in life. And let me repeat that. It's called purpose. First of all, Aristotle said it the best about purpose. 3,000 years ago, were your talents in the needs of the world intersect. Therein lies your purpose. America needs to go back to that again because we've got to let our young people know that you can become great at what you're good at. So one of the things I found that great leaders, they've discovered what they were good at and become great at it. Secondly, I think great leaders realize their most important asset is the people that are their people. And by the way, here's a little my mom's story. Here's a little my mom's story. She used to tell me, now, Roy, there are two kinds of people, vinegar people and honey people. She said vinegar people are takers, honey people are givers, hang out with the honey people. And somehow I found leaders believe that you hire the right people, the givers, and sooner or later, the takers will be gone. I'm serious. And finally, I think I learned, I really do believe that there is a golden rule and he or she who has a goal should not rule. You ought to treat people like you want to be treated. And that passion like you have for your business, you get purpose, passion, have the right people. There's a zigzag that once said you could have anything you want in life if you just help enough people get what they want. I was exactly right. And I just believe in that. And you know what, Tommy, that's not kumbaya. I mean, givers do it naturally. Yesterday I was just thinking, I was born in the United States of America. I'm very fortunate. My fingers work. I don't have any pain. I wake up every day with a lot of energy. There's so many things that have happened that have been divine for me. I mean, you got your energy. I mean, you every day, I'm 77. 77? Well, I look fabulous, you know, but you do. Well, I'll be 77 October 10th. You can send me a damn present. Okay. But October, October what? October 10th. October 10th. What do you see? What makes truly great brands in your eyes? And how is it different than just a product? Wow. Great point again. I think a brand is a sacred promise. Meaning if you have a brand like Southwest, you have a brand like the PGA Tour that we have, don't know, but a brand is a sacred promise you make to your customers and to your employees and to the country and to the world. I always believe if you have a brand that you truly believe in and it's doing the right thing, every time you violate that sacred promise, your brand is deluded. So it's always important to, for example, if you say we want to save you money so you can live better. Every day, Walmart, they wake up with all their folks and say, this isn't a theme line. This is our purpose. If we save people money, they're going to live better. And every time we violate that, it's our fault. Secondly, I do believe you have to be different before you can be better. And you know that building a business and different for a purpose. I really do think different is better than better. You know, a lot of people that I talk to, they say we're the best. And I'm like, what does that even mean? You know, we're open nights, weekends, we do background checks and I'm talking more a little bit about home service. I love what I do. I'm very proud of what we do. We were essential during COVID. I mean, we were deemed, we got to go, like now I don't mind talking to a doctor and a dentist and getting in a room with a lawyer and saying, you know, and by the way, I feel like it's something that we, you know, I decided to get a master's degree, but going back, it didn't do anything for me. I love the fact that someone could come out of 11th grade and make six figures and take care of their family without any debt. Well, let's just jump into that. Well, so what are you working on? So about 2019, they were saying we have a massive number of jobs and nobody applying. And normally in America, there's massive number of people applying and no jobs. So I thought about it and I went, are you kidding me? And I realized these young people didn't know what these things were. And so I started the make it movement, fund its nonprofit alone. My purpose is to use marketing as a force for good to reach kids while they're in school and show them careers close to home where they can become financially independent soon after high school. We support teachers, school counselors, CTE instructors, encouraging students to start the journey of discovering their purpose and making a lot of money doing what they love to do soon after high school so they can make it in Texas. So we've been testing it in Central Texas and there's one thing all Americans agree on. Pew Research just came out with this and I had no idea when I started the make it movement. 98% of all parents want their kids to grow up and be financially independent doing something they enjoy. So we want millions of young people, whether it's in plumbing or fixing or dentistry, it doesn't matter. Find out what you love to do early in life and go do it. You know, I was just on Mike Rose podcast. Yes. And he said, listen, you don't need to love. It's not the sexy jobs because, you know, I was going to be an orthodontist. And then I interned with a dentist ready to take my DATs. I mean, I'm studying for him and he goes, you know, sometime he goes, how much do you know about business? I said, well, my dad owned a business. My mom's a realtor, so she runs her own business. He said, if I were you, I'd go take the GMAT and get a master's degree in business because, you know why? I don't even own this practice. A businessman does without it. He's not a dentist. And that changed the trajectory and I can't imagine, even though I love kids, I couldn't imagine like, hi, I'm going to be working in your mouth all day today. Like I love what I do. Yeah. And it's in bottom line is, you know, if we do believe that everybody's encoded differently in America was born different, not perfect. We've never were born to be standardized. Right. We were born to be entrepreneurial. Now you got it. By the way, if it's a character issue, that's different. But the make it movement is on a mission to reignite the American dream. Find out what you are good at and you love to do while you're in high school. Well, they took shop out of high school. Yeah. Well, I hope my whole thing is to bring it back. Name it differently because AI is a great tool for builders. It partners with human beings to help us do things more efficiently. Partners, not, not driving the human beings. A real quick story too. When I was in the seventh grade, my mom was a civics teacher, by the way. And by the way, my older sister had spinal bifida, so she never walked. And she was supposed to live to be four months and she lived to be 49 years old. Susan spent because of my mom. I pushed her to school every day, pushed her home. And she graduated from high school and never walked. And she went to a community college here. And all of you out there don't get mad, but I pushed my sister during the fall around and we listened to the cowboys when they used to win. She passed away and all those years I thought I'd been pushing her. She'd been pushing me. Wow. And my mom was a civics teacher. So here's how I started to make it movement. When I was in the seventh grade, I turned in a paper and I got it back. I had eight misspelled words and there was a huge C minus. So I'm walking home pushing my sister and I go, my mom, mom didn't say anything. So next year, eighth grade, I turned in another paper. Tell me I didn't have eight misspelled words. I had 11. No boy. At the top was an A minus. And I said, Mom, I put, I don't get it. And she said, you can't spell. But the teacher and I believe you can write. And she put her arm around me again and get emotional about this. But she said, I don't want you to spend another second of your life. Trying to be average of what you're bad at. I want you to spend the rest of your life trying to be great at what you're good at. I want to ask you three questions I ask on every podcast that repeats. So what's one piece of game changing advice that you wish you knew in your 20s? I guess I wish I had known that making money is easier than managing it for me. I want every kid to be able to not only make money but manage it. And I wish I didn't know more how to do that. Fortunately, I married a great person and my partners helped me manage my money. What did Einstein say is the biggest power in the universe? Compound interest. And it was working for you. It's doing great when you got a 22% credit card. It's not working. It's working against you. So I'm glad I had again, I had givers around me. I always believe in marrying the doers and dreamers. And dreamers, we see the mountain top but we're not always the fastest to climb it. And the doers will climb all the wrong mountains perfect. Marry the doers and dreamers. Get the in-betweeners out of here. And by the way, parents, listen to me. Quit asking your kids, what do you want to do? Ask them what do they love to do? And if they say fishing, don't you know what fishing guides make in Colorado now? What are they making? 65,000 a year and work six months. If they love fishing, go figure out how to make money fishing. I fell into Grozner's accidently and I'm good at it. I mean, it's a pretty easy trade to learn but I love meeting people. I mean, one day I'm on a ladder, a guy's telling me he's, I love Bernie's shirt. And by the way, at this point, I didn't really know who Bernie was and I'm not a big fan of Bernie's philosophies but I just sat there and listened to learn. And for three hours, I listened about Bernie Sanders. Another time, World War II, that took the day off after that and just stayed on his porch. That's how I grew the business. I just, I genuinely would listen. Yeah. And how to win friends and influence people. I have one mouth, two ears. That's what I did on the route across America. Same thing. By the way, my daddy's name was Roy. He spoke Spanish before English. He was a roofer. He dropped out of school and then it's 95 years old. He graduated from high school and he called me not Roy. He called me Rorito all my life, little Roy. And he taught me three things, the extra kind to everybody you meet. If you have boys, they need hugs too. By the way, I'm going to send you my book. When you passed away, I wrote the 10 Essential Hugs of Life. First of all, you got to hug yourself. And I don't mean fall in love, but love thy neighbor as yourself. At some point, you got to hug good and bad. Secondly, you have to hug your family every day, even if you're not there. And by the way, Tommy, every day I do this with my heart. I do a heart hug to my mom or a friend. You got to hug where you come from. So the 10 Essential Hugs of Life is basically be a hugger. So you were with a lot of former presidents. What are some of the things you took from that? When Katrina happened, I got a call from the White House and I said, can you help get Mr. Clinton and former President Bush together to do a PSA? So I got him together in Little Rock because Bill had just had quadruple bypass surgery. And he said, young man, can you let me and Bill have a few minutes? Three hours later, they're still talking. And I got a note from one of the Bush family members said, Barbara said, you don't know this, but the day you got them back together was the day my husband became the dad Bill Clinton never had. I get a call on Labor Day five years ago, Roy, all the former presidents want to get together and help the folks at Harvey. I said, OK, Mr. President, we have to film tomorrow and you're the only person we all trust. So I got five camera crews and we filmed Bush Bush Clinton, Obama, Carter. I have a picture of all the former presidents and I got them all in one PSA. And you know why they got together for the higher calling of America? I learned that meeting people in the middle is not easy, but it's the right thing to do. Meeting people in the middle, compromising is not an evil thing. It is sitting down and talking to each other. You know, I, but I find when I'm negotiating or just trying to compromise, it's typically if you get down to the root of what the other people want, we both got to walk away feeling like we've got one something. I always say, listen, we both got to win here. I wrote when I wrote the book, Elevator said, build a business where everybody wins. And when everyone wins, you know, when I play games and I'm competitive, son of a bitch, really, I really am. And in business, the client could win. The business owner could win. The internal clients, which are my coworkers could win. The vendors get to win. Even my competition, I invite them to come. Right. I believe in that. By the hundreds. And they're like, why are you sharing this? I'm like, because we're elevating the industry week. There's enough water for all of us. When we're at our best, no one is too good and everyone's good enough, respecting the dignity of all work. And I think the more we can use the next year about this idea of re-igniting the American dream and respecting the dignity of all work and maybe again, American, just look at everybody and say, no one's too good and everybody's good enough. The key you said there is work. That is. My grandma, she had five kids. She went door to door sales. She was on food stamps. I mean, she didn't have a husband. He left. My mom decided she was going to work three jobs and the church helped us out a little bit. But, you know, they worked. And the key there is you go to work. There's a lot of people, especially young men now, that don't, they don't want to learn a skill. They like their video games. And it's crazy. I mean, it's literally like, you got to do something with young men. And by the way, you're just Americans in general. I just don't want to pick that out. I'm with all my guys. I told you last night that we're at a concession in Tony in Austin. And I said, guys, the one thing I learned, you know, if you're in a Southwest airline, what do they say? The oxygen mask, put it on yourself first. And there have been times in my life where I didn't, I wasn't really satisfied with myself. And when you learn to fall in love with yourself, but not like ego, and you have energy and you show up differently, things start coming your way. It's just the way it feels like you smile differently. Your energy, your aura, your vibration, whatever you want to call it. So I'm going to do some rapid fire questions. What's your favorite ad campaign that you didn't create but wish you had? Oh, God. It was literally, I love the old Budweiser with the horses. Now look what you started. I got one more question that will ask some closing questions. The most inspiring campaign you have ever worked on? I was in Washington, D.C. when 9-11 happened. Wow. And I'm getting calls from my office going, my guy, y'all okay? Because they just bombed the Pentagon. And so I finally got a car, five of us, so we started driving home, and I stopped at Duke University where my daughter went. And we were in the car and we talked about what can we do? What can we do? And we talked about it and we said together, why don't we create a campaign called I'm an American? And we're driving in the car. We didn't know what happened there or anything. I get to Duke University. I tell my daughter, we want to do a campaign. We want people from every walk of life that are citizens to say one line, I'm an American. I called my office. We had film groups all over America. I finally get home eight days later. We're still in it and we produce this thing called I'm an American PSA. And at the end of it, Tommy, it said E pluribusinum. And that meant out of many one, it was the first motto of America. It ran, we were up in the air, it ran more than any PSA in the history of America. And everybody was after, says I'm an American. I'm an American. I'm an American. I am an American. I am an American. I am an American. I am American. And so that whole idea that that's with all the stuff I've done in my life, that to me, and I have notebooks of people writing, I have postcards. I don't know who these people are, like families in airports saying we didn't know if we wanted to get on the plane. We saw I'm an American. And so sometimes doing the higher calling thing is the right thing to do. And marketing can be a force for good. We talked about a lot of things. I'm going to let you close this out. Any topic, just maybe something the audience needs to hear. I would say right now, as we're looking at a divided nation, but also one that is going to celebrate 250 years next year, I think what we've got to do is stand together on something that we believe in. And that's the American dream. Don't give up our only idea that we can come together on something. It might not be on politics, but let me tell you what it can be on. We can come together on purpose. Oh, shoot, that's good. It's a double meaning. Yeah, we can come together on purpose. On purpose and intentionally. We can come together on purpose for the next generation. I want the next generation to be a generation of builders. Very profound, Roy. I really enjoyed this a little bit. I enjoyed it. Thank you so much. My news friend. Appreciate it. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. Like always, we're going to close it out with the Tommy Truth, which is a little slice of wisdom from me to you that can help guide you in whatever you're striving towards right now. Words matter, but the way in which we say the matter, I actually do a whole class on this during orientation. Give you guys a great story. One day I paid 100 grand to go to three events, and this guy comes out in a three piece suit. Sharp, sharp guy gets on stage and he goes, how many people would like to come up here and be my volunteer? Nobody really raised their hand one person. And he goes, let me rephrase that question. How many people would like to change their life forever? Everybody had two hands up. And the main thing was is you can't just ask a question. Ask it in a way that people want to engage. It's just the way in which we ask, the way in which the tonality, the way in which the eye contact comes out is so important. And that's it guys. We'll talk to you next week.
