Dumb Blonde Podcast: Jacoby Shaddix

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That's shopify.com slash bunny. is this thing on what's up you sexy motherfuckers welcome to another episode of dumb blonde today we have the ultimate rock star jacoby shaddix is in the house baby what's up what's up what's good dude i've been trying to get you on here forever i know it's been a minute what the hell i'm glad we finally made it happen i'm super stoked dude me too i was like i was watching you do everybody else's podcast. And I was like, why is he not coming on my podcast? I know. I'm like, dude, put our name in the hat. I want Jacobi on. And the one reason why I wanted you on so badly is because I honestly feel like you are the true definition of a rock star because you take accountability, your vulnerability and your self-awareness is top tier. I mean, sometimes I feel like I'm like too, too self-aware. You know what I mean? I'm like critiquing everything this going through my mind, every thought, every decision, every move. But I think also like, that's been one of my gifts as well as to like, really take accountability to be self aware. And I think that's really how I've grown. And it's given me an opportunity to have a career. I think if I just kept rolling like a bull in a China shop, like I was when I first came in the business, I don't think it would have ended well. And so I think just kind of having some of that clarity has given me, you know, a shot to keep doing this thing. And I'm, I mean, I'm so grateful. I've been in the games. We started the band in 93. So it's like, I've been in it doing it for a long time. And, you know, I'm just grateful that I could still be doing this and still be making an impact and still be touching people's lives through this music. And, you know, for you to say like, this cat's a rock star, it's like you're married to one of the best, you know what I mean? So it means a lot. Yeah, no, I mean, real recognized real. And that's why my husband loves you so much too because you are just who you are but do you think that um you know the growth and evolving is what has kept you in the game as long as you've been absolutely like sincerely if you i i went through my party stages too back in the day hold on here's my husband we have to take this call we have to take this call right quick okay i love you bye-bye okay bye yeah i watched uh i watched his uh his rogan podcast and he was talking about his whole journey and i was i was so impressed yeah i just it's so awesome to see that just that miraculous change in him and you know i'll be straight like he was one of the guys i was like is he gonna make it through worried about him not as his wife i was worried about him even like marilyn manson for a while when i heard like he had like switched things up and he was another one of those guys i was like is he gonna make it out you know, and it's just so cool to like see that transformation in people. You know, I've experienced that in my own life and I get, I get the struggle. I get that just feeling like you're just stuck in this, like this, this prison inside of ourselves. And I think for me, I mean, mine was like drinking, you know, and it was, it, it, it evolved into the pills and, and some of that, but I just, it was, I just felt enslaved, like truly in bondage to it. And so you know to see people go through that transformation it's so powerful and it's like what we can do with our lives once we like shed the that old shell of ourselves it's like I mean that's another reason why I'm still in the game it's like the sky's the limit it's like it gives me it gave me another shot at life it gave me you know like a renewed like passion sense of purpose yeah just it just gave me so much it helped me like restore relationships you know rebuild relationships rebuild a relationship with myself you know like looking in the mirror and like just for years just going fuck you you know and that like just that raw feeling of like just kind of self-hate and to just not be in that place anymore it's like God, it's freedom. It's amazing. Yeah, it is. I saw a viral clip of you actually talking about your faith and about how you got saved. And it actually made me tear up because, you know, I'm on my own journey with God too. And so is my husband. And just seeing somebody who has an ear on the youth the way that you do, because I mean, you can sit behind a pulpit and preach all day long, but you have one hit song and that you're going to reach millions and millions of people who need to hear that. And so to hear that coming from you standing on the stage, like that's, that was really fucking awesome. I tell you this, like my faith walk has been, it's been a, like a wrestling match, you know? And it was, it started with my sobriety. I started going to meetings and going to recovery houses and stuff like that. And, you know, they're like, yo, you need to find, find God or a God, a God of your understanding. and it was a journey for me for years. And I'll tell you, like the two things I never wanted to be in my life was sober and a Christian. Right. And like, look, and here I am now, you know what I'm saying? Like a follower, a sober guy. But it was a rocky path, you know, to find that and a lot of failure and a lot of questioning and, you know, turning my will over to God and following and then taking it all back and then living my way and then, you know, repeatedly finding myself like just in that deep, dark hole. And, you know, when I finally put the bottle down and really like, it was like that foxhole prayer, you know, where I'm just like, God, do you just hear me? Can you hear me? Like, I need a miraculous change. I need something like beyond what I can do. because I kept trying to like control the change in my life. And, uh, it just, the walls fell, you know? And I had a fella that I was real close with that kind of walked my faith journey out with me. And, you know, I was like very skeptical and very like, ah, these church people are weird, you know? And, and then when I saw like this faith walk, like alive in front of me and somebody like talking the talk and walking the walk, and I saw the transformation, it became alive to me. And that it became, I was less fearful of, all right, I'll, I'll try to believe, you know? And then it became like, I'm a, I'm a full blown believer. Now it's like, I'm doing a Bible study with a buddy of mine. And like, it's like, it is, it's tripping me out because it's like, I'm starting to experience like different levels of, of freedom of bondage of self and like things that maybe I once thought were acceptable in my life now i'm like man that ain't serving you man it's not like it's not working for you anymore it's like it's hindering your growth it's messing up relationships this is a little secret that you're keeping back tucked away over here you know what i mean and like the more that i like purge these things and turn it over and just walk in the light it's just i i feel like it's the way it's the path you know and because i've tried the other way you know what i mean and it's like I you know the whole rock and roll and I was I was kind of very I didn't want to share it with people because I felt that it wasn't edgy and it wasn't rock and roll and I'm like again like I'm not here to prove like that I'm like edgy and rock and roll like I think you've already proven that yeah I done lived it and I saw where it like was taking me and I'm like and then you I watched the vh1 specials are like for instance like bands like say aerosmith right and it's just like you hear this like downward spiral and this just wreckage and the family's falling apart and i'm like i'm trying to like break that chain yeah you know i mean like i'm here trying to break that chain i ain't trying to like repeat because the shattuck's family like where i'm from my people like come from a long line of of alcoholics uh cheaters uh broken people murderers that type of lineage and so i'm like i'm not that's not that's not who i am that's not like why i'm here it's not that's not me you know jacoby that's beautiful and i feel like that's what people need to hear especially from somebody like you and i'm so proud of you thank you because to say what you just said all of that, like, and I want to clip that because it was just so beautiful is just, you're bringing people to faith and letting them know that it's cool. We're making God cool again. Well, even like, you know, watching you and Jelly, your life and the arc of you guys from afar, it's like, I see the same in you guys. And it's like, Jelly, you know, when he's talking about God on stage, like, I love that. That inspires me. It makes me go, okay, I can get up here and talk about this. And, you know, the more and more I open up about it, the more and more I realize, like, I'm not in this rock and roll family and in this rock and roll world. Like there's more believers than I realized. You know, I was like, I was out on a, what was it? We did whiskey jam the other night. Yeah. Congratulations on that. It was dope. I love that. And the viral clips of you singing, I was like, go Jacoby. It was cool. It was a dream, you know? So growing up a Johnny Cash fan, like to be able to step, you know, on Broadway and know that I'm going to go perform in a, in a venue that, you know, maybe he had once walked through or, you know, had a drink in or whatnot. Like just to know that like, this is his town and to get up in there and play a song, strip down. It was just a vibe. We need to get you in the Ryman. We need to get you to do a strip down acoustic show in the Ryman. Cause that's like, I'm telling them right now. Call your people. We're rooting for you. If anybody can make it happen, it's my husband for sure. But yeah, I, uh, I really enjoyed it. We premiered a brand new song. Um, we got this song called wake up calling. It's about to drop in a couple of days. Um, and this one is like, I'd say it's like somewhere in between like, uh, scars, Papa Roach and leave a light on Papa Roach. And so we started the song on an acoustic guitar, built it from there and then built it into this really emotive rock track and then did the uh the acoustic jam and just stripped it back down to the purest form i uh as i get older and the more we write i love that experience of just stripping the track down and just starting from the you know just the nuts and bolts of acoustic guitar and a vocal and if you could build it from there i feel like there's something special it's just so personal too like whenever you can connect with your audience with just a guitar, your voice and emotion. I wish I could play guitar too, man. I'm terrible. I'm like, I got dicks for fingers. My husband tries to pretend that he can play guitar. And I'm like, you know, one song and it's his song with MGK. Like he taught himself, he literally taught himself how to play that song and it's the cutest thing. So let's circle back and just talk a little bit about your childhood because I truly believe that people's childhoods influence their decisions later on in life and you grew up in California your parents split when you were younger yeah can we go on that journey of where so much hurt and so much of your pain had come from because you write about it in your lyrics but I don't ever really hear you talk about it yeah so uh my father uh Richard Richard Kent Shaddix uh he was a Vietnam veteran he grew he's like a I think the ninth child in his family. And, uh, he was just dealt with a pretty raw set of cards. He was drafted to Vietnam, went to Vietnam, fought a war. He didn't believe in, uh, just trauma on trauma on trauma. And, uh, my mom, you know, she's like just a sweet girl born in Michigan, came out to California, fell in love with this wild hippie. And, uh, my, when my dad came back from NAM, he was wanting to be a recluse, you know? So he was like, I'm gonna go live in the high country. My parents, you know, were really poor, but I think in the seventies, it was like being poor was, you know, it's not such a big thing when you're like living that hippie lifestyle, you know, they were living in a van, you know, it was like, I've lived in some very interesting places as a child. First, I mean, the first year was, uh, in a van. Next one was in somebody's screened in laundry porch, you know? And so not necessarily homeless, but we didn't have a house of our own. You guys were going to like gypsies. Yeah, essentially. And then we lived in a teepee for a year, like no lie. How old were you? I was probably like two and a half, three years old. We did that. My dad then became a logger for a while and he was all the while like, you know partying and raging and disappearing for a couple weeks here and there and uh yeah we lived in a tent for a while when he was logging and then finally my mom kind of had enough uh and she was just like we need to like live in a home like we need to stop being gypsies and so we finally settled in this place called nipanawasi which is like norcal kind of by a place of wani up in uh you know where Yosemite is? Yeah, a little bit. Is it up by like San Luis Obispo area? No, Central California Hills, you know, just kind of tucked away from society. And so my dad was a recluse and had his own problems and his struggles. And I just, I idolized him. I thought he was just the salt of the earth because, you know, I mean, he loved me. He loved me to death. He really did but he just didn't know how to be an honest family man and uh when he left and it just it broke me it just totally broke me and and and it wasn't that he was ever abusive towards me at all it just left this like hole in my heart you know and how old were you and I was uh at this time I was probably like six or I know seven or eight actually when they finally split it was a back and forth and back and forth he'd come and go and I just always was like where's dad you know and he was always absent and and once they finally split he just disappeared from my life and that was like true that was traumatic for me just because it was like he was my hero that's abandonment yeah oh it was hurt it sucked into anybody that's gone through that it's just it's terrible it's just it's and so I vowed to myself I didn't want to you know repeat that cycle and so I think that that was the beginning of this like this trauma in my life that I didn't really know how to heal from and you know my mom started dating and uh she met this guy who eventually became my stepdad and I was a horrific stepson in the beginning I was I remember that we were celebrating his birthday this one time and my mom got the cake and they're singing happy birthday and I like threw the cake on the floor you know like just like oh yeah I was I was you know I look back on it and kind of like okay like it's not so bad but then I just was that abandonment right and I think that I didn't fully recover from that until I was probably in my mid-20s I think when I finally sought him out and uh you know had a deep conversation with him about who he was and why he left and really never turned back and it's you know what's so wild like once I got to know him a little bit it was you know I spent a couple days with him and we got deep I just remember sitting on this hilltop and he was telling me the story of his life and I just I just felt sorry for him You know, I just, when I, when I found out like what he had been through and who he was, and I just asked him straight up, I'm like, what the fuck? Like, why did you like never try to like search me out? And he's like, I thought, I just thought that you would, you just hated me. I thought you were, you would just reject me. And I'm like, ah, quite the opposite. Like, I just wanted to like know who you were, you know? and that was like I was a that was a that was a tough but healing moment you know and in the process of being a young kid and having this stepdad that that loved me I never really like allowed that love to I never knew how to accept that love I knew he did you didn't want to get hurt again yeah and yeah I think that's what it was and my mom is just the salt of the earth an amazing, loving, compassionate woman that just taught me so much about life. And, you know, she taught me empathy. She taught me kindness. She supported my creativity. And so I think my mom, you know, as she remarried, she wanted to provide like a stable environment for me to grow up in. And my stepdad now, it's like, he's my guy. Like Bill Roach is the man. Bill. My dad's name is Bill. Okay, cool. All right, shout out to Bill. We love the Bills. That's right. And, you know, he was just, he taught me like consistency, but I'm just so much different than him. I had this reckless spirit and this free spirit and this creativity in me that just needed to like come out. and uh you know my he provided this place that was safe but I always just had this like hole in me and I didn't know how to to really come to terms with it until I had a bit of reconciliation with my father and understood who he was and why he made the decisions he made um you know my mom always warned me she's like you're you are like she would point things out in me that reminded her of my father good and bad right and she was always like you know you better be careful because like you know this drinking thing like your dad was you had a bad problem with it you know and i think i was trying to guide you yeah she was trying to like warn me like hey and i just i'm that type of knucklehead like i gotta go i gotta go hit the wall at 100 miles an hour myself to to really like to learn When did you start drinking I started I think well my mom said when I was young they had these raging parties and I would like go around and like sip the bottoms of the drinks but that's just like. I did the same thing at my parents parties. Yeah I was like I was just that young kid you know just wanting to you know get out get outside of myself and not feel like myself I think. But it wasn't till I was I think it was like 14 that I think that's when everybody starts experimenting with alcohol and my first experiment went horrific horrifically wrong you know it's like tell we would like to hear oh gosh so well one of them was the the first time I got caught my parents had vodka and they kept it in the freezer and I kept drinking it and then this wasn't the bad one but I kept drinking it and then refilling it with water oh gosh so then you know you know I'm saying like you eventually drink so much it started to freeze right my parents were like kobe like what are you doing i'm like what do you mean that's not me not me you know well then i was like i got that taste for it because i it made me like have this kind of sense of ease and comfort and uh i was my stepdad had taught me about hard work right so i started uh working i had my own business it was jack of all trades i I had this little flyer and it was like, I have a wheelbarrow. I will travel. I'll pick weeds. I'll mow the lawn. I'll babysit. So you've always been a hustler. Yeah, totally. 100%. And so that was like 14 years old and I had my business. I only made some money. And my friend, William Linnea was like, dude, it's my birthday. I'm like, dude, I got like 30 bucks, dude. Let's get somebody, get some vodka for us. And the homie went, I mean, this guy I was friends with, he was like over 21. He went and bought me this bottle of vodka. I went to my friend's house and we drank this thing to the bottom. And he, he was like, there was this girl around the corner from his house. He wanted to profess his love to her. Cause you know, you make all the right decisions when you're hammered. And 14. Yeah, we crawled, we crawled over there and I, we were, I was puking in the road, you know, blacked out. He's trying to confess his love. They call the cops. We get detained. And, uh, yeah, the next day was like, uh, you know, walk of shame back, back home. My parents, you know, were like, what are you doing? Like, and I'm like, oh, I don't know. I just wanted to party. And that was like kind of the beginning for me. And I, I really started to like, you know, take my sips when I could and, you know, stand out in front of the grocery store. And when I saw somebody 21 and older, I'm like, hey man, you go, you pick me up a couple of forties, you know, and do that. I feel like kids these days will never know those times. Oh dude, I was that, dude, we did beer runs, man. We did it too. Oh, the beer runs, dude. They made me feel alive. No, I'm just kidding. I was like, oh yeah, dude, I'm going to, I'm like, I'd be in my little red ranger on the front and Tobin, my bass player, run in there, grab, grab a case of beer, dude. We go out to the cuts, the barn, you know, do the bonfire and the drinking and the whole deal. And, you know, eventually, you know, started smoking. And then I remember I got my wisdom teeth pulled and they gave me a bottle of Vicodin. That's when I discovered Vicodin. Me too. It's in my book that I'm about to drop. I literally, I call it getting percolated. Oh, dude, I was, I was twerkelated. Man, I did not take as prescribed. at all but the first time you take that pill and it gives you that relief that you've never had before that's what gets you hooked and but then you'd never get that feeling again yep it's it's you get it one time it's euphoric and you chase that high for the rest of your it's a bottomless pit addiction it is i mean yeah but you know i had to touch that flame that was like the thing And all around this time, you know, I'm, I'm in high school, right? So. When does music enter? Have you always been musical? Where does the musical chops come from? So music is in the family. My grandmother was a singer. Her father was in the big bands, like in the 1930s and stuff like that. So he was in the pit orchestra for the Marx Brothers, and they did a lot of traveling and he played piano and clarinet, saxophone, you name it, um, and did that life. And then my grandma sang and like the chorus lines and stuff like that. My mom wasn't really musically inclined, but had a love for a music. And I just grew up loving music. Like it was just, I fell in love with, I remember poison was like one of the first bands. These guys are sick. Nothing but a good time. I love all the hair bands. I still love dudes and makeup. Like it is my, I love it. I was such a huge fan. And, uh, yeah. Shout out to Brett Michaels, dude, you're freaking awesome, dude. You're the real deal. But yeah, I discovered music and just, I was the kid with the wiffle ball bat in the front yard, playing air guitar and setting up the trash cans upside down in the garage, you know, playing with fire, beating on drums, putting on my own pyro in the garage, like do it, you know, just like a goofball. And I just had this love for music. And then when I finally got in high school and met my OG drummer, Dave Buckner, We were playing football in high school together. And I was a drummer. He was a drummer. And we were like, dude, let's hook up and put our drum sets together to make a real big drum set. So you do play drums? Yes. That was my first rock instrument. I grew up playing clarinet. I played in the, I'm like a band geek. Yeah. And so I played in the school band. Sorry? I played the viola. I was in band. Or no, I was in orchestra. I wasn't cool enough to be in band. Shout out to the band geeks. I wasn't allowed to be in band. I was in orchestra though. Yeah, that's cool though. That's cool. That's what's up. So, yeah, I went to band camp, did that whole deal. That was awesome. The band kids were wild. Yeah. Honestly, like we were wild. And I did some partying with the school band as well at band camp. Was it like American Pie? Straight, for real. For real. But yeah, band kids, orchestra kids, theater kids. We were like the D-Lo crazy wild ones. But I also played school sports, and that's where I met Dave, the drummer. And so we put our drum sets together and he turned out to be a way better drummer than I did, than I was. And so I was like, all right, well, dude, I want to play. Let's make music. And so I, I love Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I just thought he was the coolest. And so I was like, well, I'll buy a bass. and uh so bought a bass guitar and uh I wasn't so good at bass and I was at this time I was working at a place called Fresh Choice and this is right when I I uh I met my wife well my eventually would become my wife yeah and uh I met her around this time and I'm experimenting with music and I'm starting to like who's this girl what's up with this right here so then I'm at work one night and I come out and all the windows are busted out of my truck and I'm like what the oh dude I'm like look go in the back of the truck and my bass is gone and I'm like yeah what is like I can't I can't be a I'm not the drummer because he's way better than me and now my bass is still I'm straight broke I'm living on my own at this time because I moved out of my house when I was like 17 you know that typical story of like if you don't want to live by our rules. You got to live on your own. And I'm like, well, good thing you taught me the hard work ethic because I could just go rent a room from the homie. I'm out. Yeah. You're like, I got this. I know everything. Yeah. And I had a little side hustles, you know, selling Mexican brown weed at the time too. So I had a little extra money on the side. So I was like, cool. I could pay my rent. Well, I got my bass stolen and I was like, fuck, like I want to play music. And, and Dave Buckner was just like, dude, be a singer. It's free. And I was like, all right, I'm going to be a singer. I love the logic. That's so real though. Like how deep and so just easy. Yes. And, and that's what I did. I just grabbed a mic and started screaming on the mic in the garage. Did you ever know that you could sing? Sorry to cut you off. I was God awful singer. When I first started, I wasn't one of those kids. It was like the kid in the back of the room that was kind of gifted and like could sing and carry a tune. Yeah. Nah, dude, I was just the, I was the kid that was like, I was friends with the stoners, the freaks, the geeks, the jocks, the popular kids. I was kind of like friends with everybody. And so I was the guy that was like the ringleader in a way. And like, I knew how to like, you know, rally the people. And so I was voted most unique in my class. I guess that's like the most popular weird guy, I guess. I don't know. It's a compliment though. It's a compliment. I'll take it. But yeah, so I guess being a singer kind of felt like it was natural. I grew up playing a clarinet, so I understood like breath control and stuff like that. And so I got a mic in my hand and I was, it was just off to the races. Game over. Yeah. Straight up. And I was like, I couldn't carry a tune, but I wanted to rap and I wanted to scream. I find that so hard to believe that you couldn't carry a tune, especially listening to you now, because I think that you're one of the last of a dying breed, like one of the best rock front people. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a, I am a huge music fan. My dad was a musician. So I grew up in the industry too. And I just, you have just this presence. I've seen you perform, you know, and it's the way you command the way you sing. Like, I just find that hard to believe that you didn't have that to start with. If you listen to some of the early recordings, you'd be like, I'm going to go back and listen. Don't even do it. It's honestly, like I've made all my creative mistakes in Papa Roach because P Roach is like Papa Roach is my first band. Like I didn't start like 20 different bands and go, you know, this, that, and the third. It was like, I read that you guys were originally called Kobe Dick though. Well, I used to be called Kobe Dick. That's what they used to call me back in the day. I, uh, so that name came from, uh, my wife had, yeah, we were married at this, at this point we were married. She was the one with the good credit and the band, we all had terrible credit and we needed shout out to wifey yeah dude for real thank you babe yeah and she reminds me real one dude she is 30 years and we're gonna talk about her later but yeah so uh she co-signed for us to get this van and we called it Moby Dick and all the boys called me Kobe right and I was like it just stuck they were like I'm like oh yeah I'm Kobe Dick driving Moby Dick dude this my deal you know and it just kind of stuck and so yeah man that was my that was my aka back in the day I was a big Wu-Tang fan too so it was like Wu-Tang had all these like aliases yeah and so I thought I thought that was cool you know but eventually I was like I kept reading and like after we became popular and the band blew up I in like magazines it would be like dick says and I'm like I'm like do I want to be known as dick my whole life like I just my my original name And like my birth name, Jacoby Dakota Shattuck's is way cooler than Kobe. That's a rock star name. Yeah, totally. You can't have a name like that and not become a rock star. I was like, I got to, I got to go back to the OG name, but yeah, I'm a little all over the place. But yeah, Kobe Dick was my name back in the day. Mr. Dick, if you're nasty, Dr. Dick, if you're sick. So did you rap whenever you first started or were you singing? I wanted to be like a cross between like Wu-Tang, you know, Method. I wanted to be a cross between like Method Man and Chino from the Deftones. Those were like two of my favorite and totally like polar opposite types of artists. Right. But I just had this really like eclectic, diverse love of music. And I just, I was off to the races, you know, like once I had that mic in my hand and, you know, we started playing shows in front of people and we played all the backyard parties. You know what I mean? Yeah. We put on parties. We, I remember. The grind. That was like, in order to get discovered back in the day, you had to fucking put in work. Like nowadays you make a TikTok go viral and you're on the charts. And it's like, you guys, like even I did it with my husband. We had to grind. Yeah, you grinded it out. I saw him play to shows of five people, you know, like, but I feel like that makes for like such great artists. Oh, absolutely. I think that it's like, those are the moments, the proving grounds, I think for real artists. Like if you can thug it out through those rugged moments, right. Where I remember like when you were saying like playing in front of five people, I remember being in Denver, Colorado at this place called the lion's den. And we played in front of seven people and two of them were the bartenders. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like, we've had nights like that. I remember playing in like Tucson, Arizona and we showed up and we're handing out our demo tapes and then we start playing and people start throwing our demo tapes back at us, like at our faces and I'm like, fuck you. You know? So we had, we, we, we had all those moments where it was just like, what got, you know what it was? It was what got us through those moments that were tough was the brotherhood, you know? And like working through those moments, being poor together and barely scraping enough money together to get enough gas to the next city. And those, I think those moments, like you guys have lived through yourselves, right? Where it's like, it just builds character, you know? And it's like, that's the stuff. Humbling. Exactly. Very humbling. But then it also, it's like, I found so much joy. Like, as I look back at those moments, there was like so much joy and so much fun in the discovery of like traveling to a new town, meeting new people. You know, we had a mailing list. Oh, we got 25 names on the mailing list tonight, you know? And like, oh, we sold 30 t-shirts and we got, you know, we got 300 bucks in the band fund, dude. We're balling, dude. You know, it's like, we can go to IHOP tonight. You know, like I just, I look back so fondly in those moments and so grateful that we had those moments because when the times got tough after, you know, we had our success and we kind of had an arc and it felt like the industry was, we were done and over with, like those were the moments that got us through the dark times in our career after like big popularity. You know, we'd pick each other up and dust each other off and go like, all right, man, we got this. Like, we just keep thugging it out. Let's just keep pushing forward. And so it built that brotherhood strong. Yeah. And character. Yeah, for sure. And the trust. I'm not mad character. Yeah, for sure. Nothing like being broken down on the side of the road and just having to fucking hitchhike or find a ride to the nearest gas station to change a flat tire. Yeah, I get that Moby Dick, dude. I remember where that thing died, dude. We were on our way to Vegas, dude. And we're going uphill and it's like overheating. It's like, you know, the thing dies on the side of the road. We got a call like AAA, you know, hitchhiking. We eventually got to Vegas. We were three hours late for the show. We put the show on anyways, you know, like those are the moments. They are the moments that you i always tell jay like because we have so much going on now and sometimes i look at him when it's just me and him and i'm like do you ever miss when it was just us and like yeah you know 10 years ago when it like none of this was around and he's like absolutely like because it was so simple but it was like so fulfilling at the same time even though we were struggling like a mofo yep it was just those moments were just so cool yeah i agree it's like you know that saying more money more problems for sure it's real absolutely it's just you know but it's like it's also how do we navigate those those problems now right it's like and things that sometimes i think are problems like man that's a champagne problem yeah yeah absolutely fuck dude i'm going to nashville the flights canceled i got a middle seat and i'm like yeah champagne problems dude yeah like humble yourself bro you're going to nashville to rip a new track and you know stop being a little i got this saying my my brother-in-law taught me he's like db ab i'm like what's db ab he's like don't be a bitch i'm like true you're like noted i'm gonna write that down yep i did i wrote i literally have a jacket that i wear it's this camo jacket and on the inside of it it says db ab you know i was like because we were doing these acoustic runs and i was just exhausted and i'm like oh god i just want to do this i'm like worn out i look inside my jacket And I'm like, all right, cool. You said something in a podcast that actually stuck with me when I was on the treadmill last night. You said, when I make plans, God laughs. Oh, yeah. And I was like, that's so real. Oh, yeah. And I was like, I'm stealing that. So if you ever hear me say that, I will credit you. I probably stole it from somebody else. You know what I mean? That's just, it's just one of those sayings. It's like, yeah, when I make plans, God laughs. But it's so true. Yeah, it is, man. so moving forward let's talk about when you guys uh in 2000 when you guys drop your uh it wasn't your first like your first big album that made it big that was our first major label record yeah and so uh 2000 i mean it was infest right yes infest is the first one and so at this point right we're we started the band in 93 we put out a bunch of independent eps you know diy selling them out the trunk of the car showing up to corn shows with a boom box and like walking the line like what the fuck papa roach five bucks what the fuck papa roach five bucks and i'd sling in the cds like that you know and uh we learned that from like the hip-hop culture you know and and i love that that that hustle was alive and i was just it fit with my personality so well i was just like i'd be like yo what's up i'm kobe dick i'm about to i'm about to sell you this record you don't even know you're about to whip out five bucks you give it to me before you know and i just was that guy and so all the while we're sending off our music to all the record companies we're getting turned down by everybody you know from uh i mean you name it every every we're not punk enough for the punk label we're not metal enough for the metal label label we don't have a we don't have a uh like an image you know like you guys don't have who are you you know and i'm like well fuck dude we're just were p roach from vacabill california what the fuck like what else you need and uh i had this delusion that i was ready for the big time before i was ready for the big time but that's what got you to where you are totally like i feel like those that you manifested yeah it's those those delusions of grandeur like really served me well and uh we eventually uh got a uh a demo deal with dreamworks or sorry with warner brothers and we went and recorded like last resort and a handful of other songs and then uh our a and r in that process got fired and i'm like i remember being in the van and uh just sitting with the boys going like what are we gonna do man like we'll just put it out independently yeah you know and so that was the mo so we're like let's finish mixing these tracks well while we were mixing these tracks um dreamworks records hollered at our management they're like we want to come down and hear some of the songs so they came down to the studio heard the songs and they were like, all right. Like they started to pursue us, court us, you know, take us out to dinner. We're like, Oh, we'll take all the free dinners we can. We're hungry. Yeah. You know? So we did that. And, uh, we eventually got a dream, uh, deal with dream works. And, uh, that was just like, Oh my God. You know, I felt like I had made it to the top, you know, but I, you know, all the while I realized like I was just at the bottom of another Mountain, but grateful. And, uh, we went and, uh, recorded all these songs and the A&R told the producer, Jay Baumgart, and he's like, don't mess with this band. Like, just let's get a great quality recording of these band songs. You know, let's not try to like rewrite and rearrange. And like, there's something magic in what these dudes are doing. And so we went in and recorded it. And, uh, this is like at the point where like drinking really is starting to take off for me. um i'm a couple years into my marriage um my wife kelly she's like honey like you gotta watch yourself like you better check yourself and i did i did not want to listen i wasn't listening you know i was kind of off on my off to the off off to the races as they say and and uh you know when you're at the studio and you're like you got a runner and they're like is there anything you guys want and i'm like fuck yeah i want to handle a vodka like a bag of weed let's go but also it Probably made you feel like you could be more creative too. At that time, yeah. It was like, it was part of the creativity. And I felt like, yeah, man, let's get the creative juices flowing. And it was part of it, you know? Part of the life and part of the culture. And it was a lifestyle for us. Yeah, it was part of the culture. It was like a lifestyle for us that grew up in the 90s and the 2000s. We didn't, like, all the kids work out now. And like, everybody's like, it's like a completely different culture. We grew up going to ditch parties and, you know, having kegs and, you know, drinking 40s of old E. And like, it was just a different lifestyle back then. Absolutely. Not that I'm making excuses. I'm just painting a picture for people. Yeah, the culture of it. That's just what it was. It was so, you know, and I think, you know, the parents weren't so like, oh, like worried about it. They were doing the same thing. Kids would be kids. Yeah. My parents were partying and doing the whole damn thing, you know. So it was just natural. And all the while, we're recording this record, and we got something great in the can. And I remember the band was like, well, we're going to release this. Probably sell maybe 250,000 records if we're lucky. And I remember we got asked to come on Warped Tour And Last Resort just came out on the radio and this is our first single and this song just caught fire Insanity. It caught fire, and it's still on fire. Like 25 years later- It's still on TikTok. Yeah. Going crazy. Yeah, thank God. Yeah. I'm like, it's like, yeah, it is the gift that keeps on giving straight up. and it was just like a rocket ship ride to the top. And I totally was not prepared. I didn't know how to act. I just was like, I was not trained for press. I was not, you know, I just, I had no, I had a big heart, you know, and my intentions were good and we were passionate about the music. And we went out there and we traveled the world and we sold millions and millions of records. and it was a party on a party stacked on top of another party and you know I was just getting I was I became after about a year and a half of this touring on this album the questionable decisions started happening the infidelity started to happen the addictions were really setting in when I would wake up and look in the mirror I started to like hate the person that I saw because I was beginning to like that voice in the back of my head and my mother telling me that like you better watch yourself you might become like just like your father but how amazing is that that even through all of that and the addiction um you know the infidelity and and did you ever get into drugs or drugs uh you know I did I did cocaine a few times you know like Dave Chappelle says cocaine's a hell of a drug and but I never was like really into it it was the drinking and the pills was the thing for me I was kind of like a downer type of guy and I'm super grateful that you know I didn't cross the line into like heroin or anything like that but you know I'd like to chew a Vicodin and vodka like that was like a recipe for fucking let's go. Mine was Xanax and vodka. Oh yeah all that yeah I remember it all and some of it I don't remember. Yeah. But how cool is it that you still had that conscience while you were doing all of that? You still in the back of your head, you just knew that it wasn't right and that you didn't want to be that person. Yeah, I didn't. And I had a wife that was my ride or die. And she was like, yo, what are you doing? Why are you living like this? Because she knew you before this. Yeah. I mean, dude, straight up. She fell in love with the janitor at the hospital. That's what my job was at the time, you know, and like we got married and I was a janitor at a hospital. I was cleaning toilets. Right. And so like that type of love, like, yeah, that's a hard one to break, you know? And like, uh, we like to joke, you know, we're about to be a 30 years married, three decades. That's wild. Is it 29 or 30 coming up? I think it's, I think it's 30, 90. No, it's, it'll be 29. Uh, next year it'll be 30. Um, and so we're close enough. Yeah, No, 29 and coming up, we're 28 right now. And we like to joke, you know, that the only reason we're still married is because we never wanted to get a divorce at the same time. That's awesome though. And it's like, there's been moments where, you know, I was, I was in full flight from reality and I didn't want to be in this relationship. And then there was moments where she didn't want to be in this relationship. You know, I was there was a moment where I was, you know, kicked out the house and we were we were on the outs and I'm living at my bro. You know, I got this big old, you know, mansion of a house and I'm living at my brother's in this little 10 by 10 bedroom out of the trunk of my, you know, challenger car. My clothes are in there and I'm just kind of vagabond living and like trying to get my life right. And, you know, we've been through those those moments. You know, we've been through the therapy. We've been through the marriage counseling. um you know countless attempts of sobriety you know and and she's just loved me through the most broken like my most broken moments in my life and uh i am like i am blessed you know beyond blessed to have a woman like that that like loves has loved me through my crazy and uh she loves her soul yeah she she see you know she sees something in me that I didn't see in myself a lot of the time and uh it's she's been patient with me and uh she's she's allowed me to make make some serious mistakes and forgiven me for those mistakes And, you know, I mean, hey, it ain't perfect. It takes two to tango, you know, and it's like, you know, we've we've had our our battles, you know, I mean, knock down drag outs, you know, throwing the dishes at each other, you know, war of the roses type shit. and uh it's uh it isn't all pretty but i will say that you know back in the day i got some advice from my bass player's grandfather um and he said you know some marriage advice he was like you know a strong marriage isn't always going to be pretty it's not always going to be loving but it's the glue that you take the broken pieces and it's the glue that you put these pieces back together with that's going to be the strength that makes a loving marriage endure you know and i just and i i had to experience that i had to like take the vase and just throw it at the fucking wall and destroy it and go oh god like and we both picked up the pieces and put them back together together you know what i mean and and uh and that is you know now it's like it's funny because we're like having conversations in our lives now about like all right like what do you want to be called when you're a grandma like what do you want to be called when you're a grandpa i love you know and it's like because my kids are getting older now my oldest son he's like 24 jaggers 21 and then brixton my youngest is 12 you know and so i mean my kids are shooting live ones So I mean, slow down. Hey, son, I'm not ready. Just saying. Grandpa Jacoby, what are you going to be called? I'll be called Papa. My wife's going to be called Kelly's going to be called Go Go. Oh, because she's just go, go, go all the time. My wife is like from 630 a.m. She is just like, I'm like, I feel like you need that, though. Sit on the couch, babe. Chill for a minute. I feel like you need that, though, because you seem like you're always go, go, go, too. we have to check ourselves sometimes and like check in with each other and go hey like yo we need a date night yeah it's date night that's how jay and i are too sometimes we have to be like dude we haven't been on a date night in so long like we have to do something yeah i mean i i think we do share a lot of similarities in that regard that we're both like i'm a i'm a people person you know i'm outgoing i think my bit my wife is a bit more recluse she could be the type that's like hold up in a house in the countryside and not see anybody for a month and be okay yeah i'm the same way. Yeah. Believe it or not. Go, go, go. You know, she got her things. We got a little, like in the backyard, we got the chickens and we got a tortoise and you know, we got our pets. We got four pup, you know, four dogs. Would you guys move to Nashville and have a little farm? I mean, we've, the discussion has been had many times in our house. I think I've spent a lot of time on realtor and.com and Zillow. I have a realtor for you. If you guys need a realtor. Okay. Okay. Yeah. We've talked to my brother actually moved out here. My brother loves it. He's been twisting my tits about moving out here for quite some time. A guitar player lives out here now. I always say that Nashville is LA with a soul. I'm telling you are absolutely 100% correct. Yeah. I went anytime. Cause I'm from the West coast. I grew up in Vegas. Anytime I go back to Cali or I'm in Vegas, I'm just always reminded of how commercial everything is now. And like it's lost its glitter. And when you come to Nashville, it's like everybody still has a soul, you know? and like everything is just so warm and inviting and it hasn't been taken. I mean, it's corporate, but it's not like how it is on the West coast. Absolutely. I was just talking to somebody about that before I came here at the shoot. And it's like talking about the same exact thing. It's like the, the spirit of this city is real and it's alive. And it feels like maybe what LA felt like 20, 25, 30 years ago where it was just like the possibilities were there and the creativity was alive and the culture was like bustling. Right. And there, there feels like this life in this city, especially when I went down to Broadway and we did that acoustic set. And I, afterwards I was just, by the way, to cut you off really quick, can you please go play an acoustic set at our bar? Good night, Nashville, please. Dude, I was, it's funny, man. Cause I was like the last time I, uh, I was in Nashville. I was out here with my, uh, both my brothers and we were down on Broadway and I was at this club across the street and I was looking at jellies joined across the way. And I was like, that's dope. What's up with the skull with the crown up in the top? I was like, oh, we need you to go do one of these live sets. Oh yeah, we will. We'll do it. We'll for sure do it. Anytime you want, just hit Mimi. We'll plug you guys right in. You guys go and do it. But what is it like playing on Broadway? And you went down on Broadway. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I was just like, we want in on that too. No, your spot is dope straight up. I hadn't been in it, but I looked at it from across the street at the rooftop bar. And I was like, that shit's popping, dude. That's a great spot. But I was talking to a bunch of people afterwards, just kind of saying what's up to the fans. And I realized like there's so many people in this city that are all musicians that are all, you know, either have made it and are just good people or young people that came here to make it. And I just love the culture of that. And it's like, you know, when I even just down to simple things like driving down the road, you know, and you that. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. the jeep wave dude i'm telling you i'm in sacramento i i and i never get it back dude and i'm like when i'm here and i'm like everybody i'm like what's up i love i fucking love that and it's you know it finally i got a boat i finally just got a boat i live pretty close by the river so boat people in sacramento though everybody waves at each other yeah when you got a boat and so but yeah i like that soulfulness about this city i love the food i love the music and so there's so many reasons for me to come out here uh you know but then it's also like home's home you know I never lived in LA you know I just go down there to make records and so I live up in Sacramento I've lived there for you know for the last like around the area for the last 30 plus years um you know when we started having babies and stuff like that my parents my mom and my stepdad stuck around the area and so we got a tight village you know when I go home it's like I kind of got a small circle, you know? And so it's like, I spend more time with my parents than like I care to admit. But that's a great thing. No, I mean, I'm not ashamed of it at all. And spend as much time as you can because I lost both my parents, 2022 and 2024. Spend as much time with them as you can. Oh yeah, we do. We do all that. I mean, it's a regular thing for us. And that's what really is like, who's calling me? Oh, I was like, whose phone is that? It's probably my wife. It's a vibe. Yeah, if you don't mind. If it's wifey, answer so we can say hi. I love that. Sorry, let me just. I love seeing you in dad mode. Oh, dude, I'm fucking dad as fuck. I bet you're like a cool ass dad. I'm a rad dad. Yeah. I'm not even gonna lie, dude. It is just. Being a dad is like. It is just the joy of my life, honestly. And I think part of one of the cool things I think about being a father, too, is like. how can I say this? A lot of, a lot of like my partying, like my raging and I did it on the road and I would come home and I would try to dry out and like, just like white knuckle it through it. So my kids, although there was a lot of dysfunction, I really did my best to like hide it from my kids and, uh, my older sons, you know, there's, there's not a lot of, a ton of recollections of me, like being like drunk, shitty dad, you know? And, and, uh, so I'm really grateful that like, I didn't really damage my kids through all that. Um, and Brixton, my youngest has never seen me drunk. You know what I mean? And I just, I love that, you know, that, that he's been able to experience that like stability, you know? And, uh, yeah, but being a fatherhood, I mean, fatherhood is the best hood. Fatherhood is sacred. It's the coolest shit. Like my kids are just, I'm, you know, I'm a football dad. My son, both of my boys played football. They're both playing college lacrosse, you know, and so I fly out there and go, I got my cowbell. I'm in the stands yelling and screaming for my kids. Like, I'm, it is just, it is the joy of my life, you know, outside of the music. And, you know, it's something like me and my wife, we just, we just are our kids' biggest fans, you know? And it's like. What do you think is the biggest lesson that your kids have taught you? Each one, because you have three, right? Yeah. So each one, what has each one taught you? Yeah, I think- Because I feel like every child has different personalities. You know, they teach you something different. Mikhail is the most cautious and self-aware child I have. He's 24. and uh the thing he's taught me is uh I'd say like patience and understanding in a way that he's just so loving and kind that I had to like check myself and slow my pace down and just be there in the moment with my son he loves talking right like when we get on the phone he'll talk through the details of every little thing and it's like that's kind of like the the way that we communicate when we're talking it's like he wants to talk through all the details of every part of his day and I just I love that like slowing down the pace of my life because he he knows how to do that and I just I think that's so cool and I just I'm so proud of that kid and he's you know he's such a hard worker he is just a grinder like he's he's going to college he's be a doctor, right? Wow. And he is good for you. Yeah. He'd be a doctor of physical therapy. So my boss back. Yep. And so he's in his last year of school and I'm just so proud of him and just, he's, he's really been through some hard times and some heartbreak and, uh, you know, uh, he's, his life has inspired me to write some songs and, you know, Jagger, Jagger's like so much like me, in the way of like, he's got, she's got that big heart. He loves hard. He puts his heart, he wears his heart on his sleeve. He's kind of the leader in the spaces that he's in, you know, been the captain of his football team, et cetera. You know, the leader of his friend group, that kind of thing. But that's then also the type that needs to like run a hundred miles an hour into a brick wall and feel the pain and like the struggle and the strife and, you know, take his lumps and, you know, he's very bullheaded and it's almost like he's kind of gotten some of the, some of the traits about me and my wife that were both like, damn dude, you got some of the, like the, the harder edges of who we are, but he's just got the biggest heart, you know? And so Jagger, he's a, and how old is he? Jagger's 21. Okay. You know, and he's that kid that, you know, he, he tells me, he's like, dad, like you're my safe place. Like you're, you're my, you're my place where I can just let all my walls fall and uh that means so much for a child just be vulnerable you know and and uh you know I'm just grateful that you know both me and my wife we have these very special unique relationships with all of our kids you know and and so Jagger you know I think that the the thing that he's taught me is like again like I keep saying patience you know but it's like I just got to allow him to be him and not try to impose the knowledge that I've tried to raise him the best I can and love him the best we can and teach him as many valuable lessons as we can, but also like to allow him to be him and find his way, you know? And, and, uh, I think that, you know, he wants to go, he wants to go into the music. He grew up listening to, you know, Yellow Wolf was like one of his favorite rappers. We can connect you guys with Yellow. Oh yeah, Yellow's cool, man. He's a real one. I got a slum tat with Yellow one night in a hotel room. Oh gosh, okay. I should have known that you two found each other. Yeah, that was a wild night. But Jagger's just, he wants to get into the music. He's got a great voice. He's got a great singing voice. Do you support it? Are you behind it? I do. There's parts of me that are like, are you sure? because but because he's so similar to me that I just don't want him to like make some of the same mistakes that I've made and you know like the same way that my mother was kind of trying to warn me about the slippery slope of the ism you know like there's he's got a few of those characteristics and I have to you know check in with him like yo dude you good man he like you using that drink as like a crutch like what's going on what's going down like you know he was the kid that I was like you know i caught with the weed vape pen at 14 and i'm like yeah man like it's a little too young you know but it's also like how do you like my friend said he's like you know how do you beat the you out of your child you know and it's like well first don't beat your child yeah yeah no beatings but you know it's like those things about me that i see in him that might be challenges or it's gonna happen you know what i mean like i think it's what you said earlier though with him is that you lead by example. Yeah. Because that's what got through to you. Yeah. So that's what we'll get through to him. And, you know, we're doing it. And he's, they're both great kids. They're both, they live under the same roof. And so I got to hear the drama, two brothers living underneath, you know, the same roof. Just, oh, F this kid. F he leaves his crap everywhere. And I'm just like, dude, do not call me about this shit. Put your, like, your big boy pants on and figure it the fuck out. You know what I mean? Like straight up. You're like, try touring with freaking 10 people. Yeah, exactly. Like in a tour. Yeah. In one bus. Yeah. You could just smell the fart coming out of the bunk. I can't do it. Yeah. I travel separately with my own bus when I travel with my husband on tour because I am not about to bunk up with a bunch of dudes. All the boys. Not happening. No, we have the girl bus. There's like crock pot meals and like, you know, everybody's just having a good time. And then you go over to my husband's bus and it's just trashed everywhere. Mayhem. Pork chops. It's got a shit all over the place probably, right? We have busies on the bus for sure. His dog. So circling back to the music really quick. Can you please re-release Tightrope for me? Dude. So we did a, we did a 2020 re-record of it after like TikTok and stuff was popping. We were like, we're going to go re-record some of our songs. And so we did a re-record of Tightrope and it's on Spotify. You should go check it out. I will. I didn't know that. I actually just did, this kind of retrospective day today through all of our albums. My brother lives out here. He does all my social media. And so we actually did a few TikToks and Instagram type posts for that song, Tightrope, in particular. It's one of my favorite songs. Yeah, you went deep on that one. Listen, Tightrope, when that album came out, everybody loved all the other songs and Tightrope would just resonated with me. Tightrope has always been my jam. I loved that song. I just feel like, I don't know. I just felt the words. And then the other song that nobody ever really talks about with you is scars. Yeah. Like, yeah, I love, you know, last resort and I love why you wrote it because you wrote it about a friend who was going to commit suicide. But can we talk about scars? Because I feel like that solidified you and as like legendary status and like staying in the game because yeah, you can come out with that first record that, but there's always one hit wonders. And then, I mean, you've had way more than just scars also, but scars came next. Correct. That was like your biggest one. That was a, that was a very like redeeming moment for the band because after last resort and infest our first album, we toured the world. We sold millions of albums. It's hard to follow up something like that. I'm telling you, dude, it was just like, we had, we hit rock bottom for a minute and it was like I remember going out and touring on Love Hate tragedy the album after that and we sold almost on the brink of a million records and it was considered like a commercial failure and i'm like fuck like is it over you know because at this time it was like uh music uh in pop culture was changing it was like the strokes had came out the vines uh the hives, uh, you know, uh, the white stripes, all this new wave of music was happening. And we were not that, you know, and I'm like, dude, how are we going to survive this? And so we were back to the drawing board and, uh, this was right. Scars was right at the time when this was the first time I tried to get sober. You know, I remember calling the producer, Howard Benson. I, uh, in a blackout, I was threat. I was like threatening to burn my house down. And like, it was, you know, luckily my wife didn't call the cops. She called my parents, you know, my mom came and just slap checked me into, you know, into shape. Sometimes we need those. Yeah. And it was one of those like moments of clarity for one. That was one of the first moments of clarity for me. I was like, I think I got a problem. Like this alcohol has got a hold of me. And, uh, I, uh, I decided to get sober and I called my producer. And right before we were moving to LA, Kelly and I, and my son, Michaela at the time was maybe just like one year old. And I'm like, we're packing up the family. We're going down to LA. Cause I wasn't about to go down to LA, just volatile and out of my head and, uh, call my producer and i'm like i'm getting sober and he's like you're gonna fuck do what and i remember he gave me attitude gave me lip about wanting to get sober he's like that's what's fucking wrong with all these musicians now everybody's getting sober and fucking up rock and roll and i just remember like hanging up the phone going i'm rolling down to la to go punch this guy in the fucking face yeah that's terrible fuck you and uh i cooled off on the drive got down there, you know, and we had this batch of songs and scars was one of those songs. And we presented all the songs to the producer. And it was one of those songs that he, the producer was kind of like, no, I'm not so sure about that one. Like, it's good, but it's like, we would grade all of our songs. Like this is a song. This is a B song. This is a C song. And I think it would, he graded it like a C and we're like, we just knew that there was something special in this song. And I think that uh because it was so different from the sound of like quote papa roach that it wasn't necessarily it caught it didn't really catch the ear of the producer but it i feel like whenever we do something that kind of makes me feel a little uncomfortable creatively vulnerable yeah it just there's that there's something special about that and i just we held on to that we're like, we have to like see this song through. And, uh, we did, and we got to the end of it and we presented the, the album to Jimmy Iovine at the time was the president of the company. And he's a very knowledgeable, well-respected, you know, industry music mogul. And we turned, turned the record into him and he hit us back and he's like, well, you know, the song scars, it's pretty good, but I feel like you need to go back into the studio and rerecord it to make it sound more like it's been a while by Stained. And I'm like, fuck do you mean? I just was kind of taken back like, God, this music business is like they're trying to tell us how to do what we do. You felt like he was controlling your creativity. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I was very offended. Did the original sound sound as soft? I don't want to say soft, but sound as intimate? it as? Well, so we went in and re-recorded the song, right? And it was the most like average white guy BS rock dribble that we had ever written. We turned it in. We're like, this is trash. And so the version of Scars that you hear now was the original version that we turned into Jimmy Iovine. So it was like, we went through the motions of like, all right, cool. We'll try to appease you, which dude, Stand is an amazing band. The song It's Been a While is an amazing song, but it just what it didn't fit for scars like for us to try to like revamp it to sound like that we went through the exercise went through the motions but it just didn't hit the way that it was supposed to and he I think he well obviously he realized and was like all right we'll go with the original version we'll go with your gut you know this is on you and I'm like that's right it's on me like let's go and uh that album uh we we led with getting away with murder the song getting away the murder that song went to the top of the rock charts and then when we released scars i'm like i'm like crossing my fingers i'm like fuck dude this like this is this is like sink or swim for us because you know we're starting the industry's like starting to look back at us like oh this band is like a real thing scars went straight to the top of the rock charts and then moved up into the pop charts and we had a top top top five uh hot ac top five pop record with with scars and that was just like so validating i only have one plaque of of papa roach uh hanging in my house and it's that for getting away with murder that album because it just meant so much to me like the first album was like it it was powerful and you know i mean we sold more records on the first album than we did with getting away with murder and scars but i think that kind of coming back from i guess almost the brink of disaster and complete utter failure as a band in the mainstream to be able to come back and and pop off again and sell you know nearly two million records on that album was like so rewarding and just like we can do this like we can like we broke the curse of being a one-hit wonder you know and so that song is like straight up like another one of those a gift that keeps on giving it's it's honestly become like a staple of who we are you know so it's it's funny because when fans talk to talk to us about old school papa roach I'm like we've been around so long I'm like, all right, like what, what era of Papa Roach do you think old school Papa Roach is? Is it like, is it 2005 Papa Roach? Is it the year 99 Papa Roach? Is it 2010 Papa Roach? Cause you know, we've like gained different fans at different points in our, in our story. And so, yeah, it's like when somebody says old school Papa Roach, I'm just like, fuck, I'm confused. I don't know what you want. So we're just going to keep. You're like, I need a year. Tell me what year you're talking about here exactly and yeah so scars was definitely one of those songs that broke down a lot of barriers for our band do you ever look back at your legacy that you've built and just be proud of yourself I think as I get older and I think I think it was 20 the year 2020 when we hit the 20-year anniversary of that album in fest that I started to get that like proud dad kind of moment about what we'd done and just looking at, man, we've, we've done this, like this dream that I had when I was 14, 15, 16, I'm living it. Like this, this dream had become reality. Yeah. Maybe at times it was a nightmare, but it really like it, it is, it is everything that I wanted and more. It's the journey. And it is. And, and you know, it's, I look at it and I'm so grateful that, you know, I made the mistakes I made and I recovered from those mistakes and I was able to grow musically, creatively, personally, spiritually, and in so many ways. And, and now, you know, it's like, here we are, it's 2026. Like my mind is blown. I'm still in the game. You know, we just, uh, leave a light on one of our last singles, you know, it's like who would have thunk in a gajillion years that we would have an acoustic song that rock, you know, went to the top of the rock charts and, and, you know, moved into the alternative space again. And then to like, have a lady like Carrie Underwood bless the track, you know, I'm just like, I got to keep pinching myself. Like, dude, the gift just keeps on giving. Like it just keeps revealing itself to me in so many cool and fun and interesting ways that I'm just like each day I wake up when it comes to this creativity, I'm like, all right, what do you got for me now, God? Like, where are we going? You know, it's like, it's such a, it's a cool experience. And as, and as hopeful as I am, it's as, it can be as dreadful as, as possible. Some days I wait, it was funny. Like two days ago, I woke up and I just was like on the phone with my wife, Kelly. And I'm just like, she's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, I just want to curl up in a ball and like not be jacoby today i just i just i'm like i'm just i'm exhausted and it's so wild how like i can wake up like that like it have so many gifts on blessings on blessings on blessings and still wake up just not wanting to like get out of bed you're human yeah and i just i was like it's so it sounds so corny no my babe can you just like just fuck just tell me i'm the man. Like just tell me I can go get this. Like, just like gas me up. I just need it. And she's like, you're the fucking man, honey. And I just, it's like, sometimes she breathes life into you. Yeah. My husband calls me and does the same thing though. Sorry. I said, my husband does the same thing though. Yeah. And it's like, I think that like that there's this, there's this brokenness that's still in me that, that I'm trying. And it's just a journey that I'm continually trying to to heal in myself and uh this music has just been it's been a reflection of that it's been the soundtrack of that and my mistakes and my failures and my triumphs they all come through you know and something as simple as my wife just saying honey you're the man you could do it like she don't I don't even know if she knows like how much those simple gestures or just like something simple like she could just tell i'm having it like a day and she'll just like reach over and like put her hand on my neck and like massage the back of my neck and i'm just like like everything's gonna be okay you know because it's like i think there's a lot of weight i think i carry as a lot of pressure as like you know there is a lot of pressure in this business to Well, there's a lot of pressure to continue to keep going with Papa Road. There's so much pressure because of all the years that you've been doing this. Everybody's waiting for your next move. Yeah. I ain't bulletproof. I ain't Superman, but I sure as shit try to put on like I am sometimes. And when I am on stage, I feel that way. I really do. I feel like I'm invincible. And then when I come back down to earth and I sit on the couch and just take a breath, And then the reality of just who I am sets in. And I'm like, I'm just a man. You know, I'm just a dude trying to get it right. Trying to make the next right decision. You know, try not to be a dirtbag. Trying to be honest and make the next, you know, right move. And, you know, it's like. Do you take breaks for yourself? Like, do you go on vacation? What do you do to reset your mental health? Oh, yeah. I had a conversation with one of my managers yesterday. I'm like, dude, after I get back from this trip, it's, it's time to unplug. And he's like, actually, you got to come back to Nashville and shoot a music video in a couple of weeks. I'm all going to start to get pissed. And I'm like, quality problems, quality problem, but I'm going to go home and I'm going to chuck this phone. My husband does that all the time. I'm just like, I'm gonna turn it off. I'm just going to go disappear. Um, for me, getting out in nature is a huge thing for me. Uh, my fitness and my, my exercise is a big thing for me. Running is like been a comfort comfort place for me. I live real close to the American river and there's all these horse trails that I'll just go out and I will go run those trails until I'm physically exhausted. And I just come back like renewed and I work out, I don't run to music. So I, I process a lot of these questions and anxieties and frustrations and, you know, songs come to me in those moments and lyric ideas come to me in those moments. And, you know, so, so I do that. I, I'm very mindful of my eating habits and, you know, just as jelly, like, you know, food is sometimes been a thing to me, like I'm a binging kind of guy. And so putting those things in check and like having some discipline and obedience in my life has really like given me like, it's strengthened me, you know? Um, and I think also, uh, breath work is, has been something for me. That's like phenomenal. Yeah. It's I, I, uh, during COVID when everybody's locked up, a really good friend of mine, this guy named Sonny Mayo was running a, uh, uh, he's a sober brother of mine. He was running a breath work class, uh, on the zoom and he's like, dude, you should show up to one of these. And I showed up and I did this 25 minute breath work. And it was just like a floodgate of emotion just broken me. And I just like, just all these things that I was carrying around, it just, it just flooded out. And he gave me some, some sound advice, you know, cause I was really struggling for a moment. And he's like, can I suggest something to you? I'm like, yeah, man, I'll take anything right now. And he's like, first thing you do when you wake up is you slide down off the side of your bed and you hit your knees and you pray and then right after that you grab your pad of paper and you go write two to three pages of just whatever's in your head yeah and it's called morning pages and so i did that for a better part of a year year and a half and just i would just the crazy shit i would write and just the things that were in my head i was like dude are you okay but i think that writing out that crazy was very therapeutic for me. And so I, you know, these, these types of routines that I go back to when things are getting sticky, it's like breath work, meditation, prayer. Now I'm onto doing this, uh, men's Bible study, you know, these things that he's, you know, I got this toolkit now when like life's getting shifty and I want to like, you know, just make a bad decision. It's like, nah, dude, pause, pause. Like don't light your life on fire. Don't, you know, and that's kind of what this new... Self-sabotage. Yeah. Oh God. I was the king of it for years. And I've come to a point now, you know, where it's like, I don't want to sabotage this thing. It's too good. It's, I got too much to be grateful for, you know, and gratitude is another, another tool of mine that really puts things in perspective. You know, I, on my social media, that's kind of how I've chosen to participate with it. So I just put up a gratitude list. Can we bring those back? Cause I, I have been waiting for one and I went to go look yesterday and I was like, why haven't I seen his gratitude list? And you haven't posted since last year. Yeah. It's been a minute. Yeah. It was like July. Not that I haven't written gratitude lists. It's just, you know, I just kind of was just like, ah, I'm not going to post, but I should. I don't think you realize how much those gratitude lists mean to people. Cause I would read them. I would read your gratitude lists and, and again, your vulnerability. I didn't, I've always known the music. I never knew you until I started following you. And then when you were doing those gratitude lists, it would like gave us a glimpse inside of who you're, it gave us a glimpse of your heart where like, we can hear your heart in the music, of course, but to hear, see your words and just your vulnerability like that every day with your gratitude list was really a beautiful thing. All right. Challenge accepted. Bring them back. Bring it all back. I mean, it's 20 cats, a new year. You know, I think you should. I really think you should. All right. I'm not going to keep you much longer because I feel like I've been talking your air off also, but can we end this? I have Sharon Osborne coming on the podcast. Oh really? And I heard a story that Sharon crawled in your ass one time, but that like you really needed that. Oh yeah. And I want to ask her about her version of it too, if that's okay with you whenever I have her on the podcast next week. Absolutely. Tell me what happened with that. Well, first off, please give her a warm, a big old hug for me and just tell her hello and, and warm regards. And, you know, just thinking about her praying, praying for her and her family during this tough time. And, you know, but yeah, that moment I was just, you know, uh, you know, just drinking, trying to start riots while I started a riot on Oz Fest, encouraged the fans to destroy the venue. They continued, they, they obliged and destroyed the venue. Um, my A&R was like, dude, just jump in the back of the, my town car. So I, cause the cops were looking for me. And so I jumped in the back of, in the, in the trunk of the town car, cause they were searching vehicles as I was leaving, got out of there. They, they ended up getting ahold of my A&R and said, listen, you know, like if you, if Jacoby doesn't come back and surrender to the cops, he's going to get arrested for evading the police. And like, you don't want that. You don't want that type of smoke. So I turned around, I turned myself into the New Jersey state police and, uh, I was detained and, you know, they were cool enough to me. You know, I had to pay him. I was, I was bailed out later that evening. I had to pay a massive fine. And then I was like, cool. I'm like, all right, going back to the bus. And they're like, I'll get back to the venue. And they're like, uh, uh, got to come talk to mama. And I went into the office and I had to sit down with Sharon and she just chewed me a new asshole. She's like, you've got the fucking world in the palm of your hands. And you're just acting like an idiot. Come to my festival. You, you'd start a riot, you destroy the fucking venue. And she just read me the riot act, you know? And like, she's like, you're fucking lucky. I don't kick you off this tour right now. You're lucky you're selling millions of records right now because your ass has been out of here, you know? And I just was like, Oh, you know, and this little woman just, Oh yeah. Just a pistol, you know, a fire plug. And, uh, you know, I needed that. I straight up needed it. Like, I'm so grateful that she just checked me. And, uh, it, it really, like, I was humbled straight up. I was like, God, I didn't want to like get kicked off Oz fest because it was like, yo, we were out on tour with, it was like P Roach, Linkin Park, Slipknot, Marilyn Manson, Ozzy Osbourne. Like it was just the sickest bill. When the music was so good. Yeah. It was so rad. And I'm just so grateful that she just chewed my ass out and set me straight because, you know, I, uh, I had the world in the palm of my hands and I was selling millions of records and I didn't want to ruin my career. And, and it really like changed the way that I approached this thing. And, you know, I, I think I maybe set up, set off a few more riots, you know, but just, they weren't on Oz Fest. It was just on your way out. You just had to let everybody know that. Yeah. I was like, all right. So I'm still, you know, wild as fuck. I still got it. Yeah. And so, uh, I definitely, I paid, I paid some fines in my day and, uh, I was banned from that venue for years and I eventually had gone back and was able to play there again, which was cool. We went back and, uh, did a tour with Nickelback and got back on that stage. And it was cool. Daddy chatty. Yeah. I love daddy chatty. He's legit, man. It was a fun one on that tour. But yeah, thank you, Sharon, for ripping me a new asshole. I needed it. I'm healed from that and I learned my lessons. So thank you. We love that. Can we expect a country album from you since you're in Nashville so much? Oh man, who knows? You know, I actually just, I did some writing with this guy, D-Ray, who's actually done some stuff with Jelly. I love D-Ray. D-Ray writes all my Christmas music. Yeah, dude. D-Ray is the business, dude. I love it, man. We became fast friends. We just wrote a couple songs together uh just recently and uh yeah you know who knows you might find me in nashville dipping in the world a little bit i'd love you know i think the way that i would like dip into it is to just guest on some country people's albums i think that that would be a natural my husband's about to drop a new album oh dude hey just holler at him i'll put it in his ear you know you know i'm good for it i got you but yeah uh who knows where it takes us and And, you know, I just want to say congrats to you. Congrats to you and your family and crushing it and killing it. And thank you for having me. It's been a long time coming. And, you know, me and my wife were like, I was like, dude, I'm going to be on Bunny's podcast. She's like, oh, sick, dude. This is tight. I can't wait to watch because she watches all your stuff. Oh, I love that. Thank you so much for coming, Jacoby. I'm so glad we finally got to sit down. And anytime you want to come promote anything, anytime, my couch is always open. Cool. Thank you. Let me know. Absolutely. Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumbelon. I'll see you guys next week. Bye.