Tip of the Century [6]

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules. Segregation in the day, integration at night. It was like stepping on another world. Was he a businessman, a criminal, a hero? Charlie was an example of power. they had to crush you Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach listen to Charlie's Place on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey everyone it's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the Legally Brunette podcast each week we're bringing you true crime through a legal lens whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie or you still need to wrap your head around the ditty verdict we're breaking it all down step by step. And we're not just lawyers, we're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes. Listen to Legally Brunette on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Tenderfoot listeners, we want to hear from you. We just launched a survey and want to know about your favorite shows, your merch requests, and what you'd like to listen to in 2026. Give us the gift of your feedback and you might be one of our winners to get free merch and a $100 Amazon gift card. Head over to tenderfoot.tv slash survey for more. Thanks again. Now here's the show. New episodes are released weekly, absolutely free, but you can binge the entire season now with iHeart True Crime Plus, exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad-free listening and exclusive bonus episodes. So head to Apple Podcasts, search iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. In this episode, we'll be talking about these victims in very graphic terms. These details are crucial for proving the mistakes and missed opportunities that could have led to the perpetrator's capture sooner. These individuals deserve to be remembered not by the details of their deaths, but by the fullness of their lives. They are Shannon Gilbert, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholomew, Amberlynn Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack, Karen Vergata, Asian Doe, Sandra Castilla, Tanya Denise Jackson, and Tatiana Marie Dykes. And that is a friend of yours, right? Well, I had just met her that night, to be honest with you. It's hard to get scared. Like, I really am, man. The phone's shut off. They can't find out. What is your name? Joe Brewer. On May 1st, 2010, Shannon Gilbert ran from Joseph Brewer's house and vanished somewhere in Oak Beach. Nearly 20 months later, her remains were found in a neighboring marsh. While medical examiners ruled Shannon's cause of death as undetermined, Suffolk County PD refused to release her 911 tape for years, claiming it was, quote, evidence, while at the same time claiming her death was accidental. Finally, after more than a decade of legal battles and public pressure, her 911 call was released in May of 2022. But rather than clarifying the mystery, The recording only added fuel to the fire, sparking a renewed debate about what really happened to Shannon on that fateful night. State police. Yeah, there's somebody after me. I'm sorry? There's somebody after me. Where are you? There's somebody after me. What's the matter? Are you okay? What are you going to do? What are you going to do to me? Please stop the noise. What we know for certain is that Joseph Brewer and Shannon's driver, Michael Pack, had tried to get Shannon to leave Brewer's house, but she refused. Moments later, she ran out of that house and into the streets of Oak Beach. Gilbert got lost in that marshland and died. Investigators pointing out Gilbert suffered from mental illness and substance abuse. On the 911 call, you hear Gilbert claiming that someone wants to kill her and later running for help. Listen, I'm going to simplify everything right now. It's a horrible accident. It's tragic. Which brings us to the inherent problem in solving any crime. Because everything is subjective, even the truth. Consider Shannon's 911 call. Listening to the exact same evidence, people draw completely opposite conclusions. Some hear a woman terrified, running for her life. These people are plotting to kill me. Where in Long Island are you? I don't know. Hello? You're going to kill me? Why are you guys doing this to me? Get out! Get out! Get out! It was murder. I don't care what anybody says. this was murder. While others hear a woman incoherent and mumbling, seemingly in the middle of a mental health crisis. Are you in a house? Yeah. Whose house is it? I don't know. Who is Mike? What's his last name? Mike what? Gilbert, who police say had a history of substance abuse and mental illness, at times seemed incoherent on the tape. Shannon was physically calm, but acting very paranoid. Something freaked her out. She looked freaked out. The problem with trying to solve any mystery is that all too often we filter reality through what we already believe or want to believe. Since the release of Shannon's 911 call, there's been little evidence to illuminate what may have happened to her. More so, an independent autopsy performed by celebrity pathologist Dr. Michael Bodden, performed at the request of the family, only makes things murkier. Bodden's report rules that Shannon's cause of death is undetermined. The same conclusion of the Suffolk County Medical Examiner. However, with one caveat. Nothing in his analysis rules out the possibility of homicidal strangulation. A vague enough assessment that seems tailor-made for multiple interpretations. And one of the most vexing questions of all is whatever happened to Shannon Gilbert. More than half a decade of unanswered questions about how Shannon Gilbert died and whether or not her death is connected to the so-called Gilgo Beach murders. And then there's one more piece of evidence that may shed light on Shannon's demise. On July 23rd, 2016, Shannon's mother, Mary Gilbert, had been found brutally stabbed to death by her own daughter, Sarah Gilbert, who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and was in the midst of a psychotic episode. Wow, my God. What happened? What happened? What happened? Oh, I'm down. Sarah struggled with mental illness, which deepened in recent months, but Maureen never stopped trying to help. This tragic pattern of mental illness in the Gilbert family corroborates what police have always maintained about Shannon's final hours. But if the 911 tape supported Suffolk County's claim that Shannon's death was accidental, Why was it withheld for years under the excuse of protecting an act of investigation? The question isn't simply whether Shannon Gilbert was murdered or died accidentally. The question is why would Suffolk County Police Department continue to stoke the flames of conspiracy by not releasing the tape? I started saying, yeah, please. It started getting crazy. And they left out the door. And the car drove away. And as soon as it was over, I shut the door and left the bed. As for Shannon, regardless of whatever did happen that night, there's at least one truth no one can deny. Whether she died accidentally or by some other means, Shannon Gilbert is still a victim, a victim of prejudice, of apathy, and the corruption that allowed the Long Island serial killer and the likes of Joel Rifkin, Robert Shulman, John Bittroff, and so many others to keep on killing. while we may never know the whole truth behind the tragedy of Shannon Gilbert what's clear is that without her sacrifice it's highly unlikely the police would have ever searched Ocean Parkway all those years ago and the bodies of 10 victims may never have been found and ultimately the alleged Rex Hewerman may never have been caught I'm Josh Zeman and this is Monster hunting the Long Island serial killer. While we might never solve the mystery of Shannon Gilbert, there was still that other mystery that continues to haunt us. That lingering question I've asked myself so many times since that day back in July of 2023, when I first heard that Suffolk County detectives had finally arrested the Long Island serial killer, the alleged Rex Heuerman, after more than a decade. What took so goddamn long? And now seeing the culmination of our investigation, it's time we finally answered that question. As we return to our evidence one last time. Breaking news to bring you. Police have made an arrest in the Gilgo Beach murders investigation. Police and the county executive are holding a press conference. Let's listen in. I want the public to know that we have never stopped working on this case. I want to thank the Suffolk County Police Department. I want to thank District Attorney Ray Tierney and his team, the New York State Police, the FBI, and all of the law enforcement partners. Investigators saying how modern police work led to the arrest of the suspect. Once we were able to attach the avalanche inside of that Massapequa box, that was a moment where we said, okay, there's something here. The official version of Catching Lisk suggests a case that was solved by old-fashioned police work, cutting-edge technology, and a combination of tenacity and teamwork. And officials aren't wrong. The Gilgo Beach Task Force did an incredible job. An incredible job, that is, untangling one of the most bungled serial killer investigations in modern history. And while there are endless threads as to what went wrong, we've uncovered one thread worth pulling on. One that helps unravel the mystery of whether this case could have been solved sooner. Which brings us back to our 2015 interview with Dave Schaller, the roommate of Amberlynn Costello, one of the Gilgo Four. I told the cops about everybody, you know. There was one guy who came there. He was a monster. This guy was big. I had to fire him to get him out of the house. He was driving a green avalanche, a Chevy avalanche truck. It was only a couple weeks right before she disappeared that that guy was there. So you believe that she had met him on some kind of out call or in call before? Out call or in call, yeah, definitely. Man, that Green Avalanche, bro, stands out in my fucking mind to this day. Because those cops, man, they reacted so, like, you know, when I pointed that thing out, they were like, you know, you could see the fucking lump in their throat, you know? Something about that guy, you know? From Dave's very first interview with detectives, conducted days after Amber was identified in December 2010, He gave a description of a possible killer and his vehicle, a tip that the Suffolk County PD has since admitted was in their case files from the beginning, a tip which they claim had been overlooked. David Schallert spoke with homicide detectives more than a decade ago. Investigators had a description of a Chevrolet avalanche in their case files since 2010. But this wasn't just one clue seemingly lost in a sea of police reports. We now know that Dave's description was corroborated by another witness. We presume a neighbor who also saw, quote, a dark-colored pickup truck coming from the direction Amber was last seen, prompting detectives to re-interview Dave Schaller months later. The cops came to Brooklyn, and they pulled out a board with a whole bunch of trucks on it. And one of the trucks was a Green Avalanche. He said, does any of these trucks stand out to you? And I went like this to point it out to Green Avalanche. and they both looked at each other with a fucking look on their face, like an old fuck look, like it was the fucking tip of the century. That was it. Tip of the century. One that Dave Schaller gives not once, but twice. A tip corroborated by another eyewitness describing the same vehicle on the night Amber disappears. In 2023, the author of Lost Girls, Robert Kolker, reported that detectives had entered the Chevy Avalanche into a vehicle database. But due to the vehicle's unique design with features of both a car and a truck the search came up empty Do you think they just didn take this clue seriously There a lot we don know I was told they ran a search and the search didn come up with anything But new records get filed in strange ways and whole new classes of car get invented in that time. Cars that aren't a truck and cars that aren't a car. It's very possible that the avalanche was just not findable through the search that they did. it's possible that after running the search, they just backburnered it and it got away from them. But how could they not take such a concrete lead seriously? Well, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. We didn't take Dave's clue seriously either. So why did we miss it? Well, back in a previous episode, we mentioned how Dave and Amber supposedly pulled what's called the angry boyfriend scam on a John, supposedly Rex. A scam that led to a brawl at Dave's house sometime before Amber disappeared. Now, according to police, Amber gets a text from that same John later that night saying, that was not nice. Do I get credit for next time? But the John doesn't want to go back to the house because he's afraid of, quote, Amber's boyfriend. Now, Dave says it wasn't actually a scam, just that he and Rex had gotten into a fight. Regardless, that's as far as this first story goes. But then Dave tells us a second story about the night Amber disappeared. So this guy kept calling, and she kept talking all sorts of jazz with him and stuff. She said he wants him for the night. Did he throw money at you? Yeah, $1,500. I remember telling her, it's a lot of money. It doesn't sound right. And she was comfortable with him. I remember that. The level of comfort she had with him was strange. I didn't feel right about it. So there was all these little stipulations. You had to pick her up around the corner. I said, why can't the guy, you know, pick you up in front of the house? And they were all just like red flags. She didn't care. She left that night just to close on her back. No purse, no phone, no nothing, which was odd in and of itself, too. I don't know, that night, I'm just playing it in my head, and I'm like, I don't understand what happened that night. But here's the point. Dave wasn't 100% sure that the two Johns were connected. But he also said it was weeks between that earlier fight and the night Amber went missing. It was only like a couple weeks before, right before she disappeared, that that guy was there. We thought, there's no way this elusive killer, who took all these precautions, would ever show his face to Dave and then come back weeks later to snatch Amber. But now it seems it wasn't weeks later. It was the next day, which makes this fight with this angry John far more relevant. Well, this guy went from normal to 360 degrees, you know. I mean, just went fucking nuts, started throwing shit around my house. Because now we know why this killer, allegedly Rex, would do something so risky. Because his ego had been bruised. Because Amber had not only tried to scam him, she had humiliated him. And now he was going to make her pay. What's even more damning? recently released court documents suggesting that detectives did know it was the next day, making the fact that they had missed this connection all the more frustrating. Schaller told investigators a decade ago that he came face to face with Rex Ewerman. Quote, I gave them the exact description of the truck. I mean, come on, why didn't they use that? The point is, if they had followed the avalanche tip, then, God forbid, more victims could still be alive if they had made the arrest back then. In 2012, Dave Schaller publicly admitted that he was, quote, too high to remember that day, which may account for the time discrepancy. Yet he still maintains it was weeks before. Regardless, his avalanche clue and the detectives' reactions spoke volumes. So much so, they even took the time to create a truck lineup on a board. Yet, after striking out with this database, the tip was theoretically forgotten. That information came in at the beginning of the investigation in 2010, 2011, along with what was really thousands of tips. And unfortunately, it gets lost and buried. But Suffolk County had more than just a potential description of the Long Island serial killer and his car. As you remember, they also had a potential location of where he lived and worked. Let's bring back former District Attorney Suffolk County Tim Sinney. Tim, you know a lot more about this than I do. What's going on here? Certainly Massapequa was on the radar as early as 2012. And the FBI was able to pinpoint the areas that the killer was connected to, both in Massapequa Park as well as Manhattan. But even without the FBI's help, detectives knew about Massapequa Park from the very first interviews they did with Melissa Bartholomew's mother, Lynn. When I had Melissa's phone records, there was a lot of calls in and out from Massapequa, which I don't have those records because the police confiscated my book of all my investigation. Tell me about what happened with that, please. They came to Buffalo to meet with us, and we were telling them about my book and all the investigating we did. You know, we went to Verizon. We got all her phone records. And so they were like, well, can we take a look at this book? And we showed it to them, and that was the last time it was in my hands. They just said this is now evidence. Yet despite having a description of this monster, his green avalanche, and Massapequa Park, they continued to let the tip slip away over and over again. Recently, we spoke with Gus Garcia-Roberts, the author of Jimmy the King and former investigative reporter with The Washington Post at the time of Rex's arrest. What was the official line from law enforcement about the revelation that this tip was in the files. We started calling, you know, everybody who we knew had been investigators on the case at that time, in those early days, and just asking them, you know, are you familiar with this Chevy Avalanche tip? The kind of consensus that we heard from these investigators was that they had no recollection of there being this tip involving a green avalanche. Never heard of it. Don't know what that is at all. That was the answer. Tyranny, who became DA in 2022, explains why the tip got buried. When they're getting that, that's lost within a sea of other tips and information. And at the time, there wasn't really any coherent leadership at the top. Of course, Tyranny isn't wrong blaming the previous DA, Tom Spoda, and his sidekick, Police Chief James Burke. As it's been reported, instead of investigating the Gilgo case, Burke has detectives spying on professional and personal rivals for both himself and Spoda. And then came Burke's assault of a prisoner and cover-up. But maybe the most damning reason critics point to was Spoda and Burke's blatant obstruction of the FBI. Burke was heavily criticized by other law enforcement officials for his handling of the case over a decade ago. He refused and blocked federal law enforcement from working on the Gilgo Beach serial murder case. In 2013, we interviewed former Commissioner Richard Dormer about his initial meetings with the FBI just days after the 10th body was found. They came up to Suffolk County, I think it was three or four of their analysts, sat down with our task force, and they had very good ideas on how the investigation should be conducted. I mean, let's face it, they're the experts in this thing. This was unusual. I mean, it's not every day that the Suffolk County PD would investigate a case like this. Once Dormer retired in 2011, the FBI's assistance was either minimized or flatly refused. Even a request by federal agents to track List's personal phone by using his burner phone was denied by Spoda. The bad blood between the Burke-Spoda regime and the FBI came to a head in December 2012, when two detectives sent a memo requesting a third meeting with the BAU. Again, here's Robert Kolker. Someone in the Suffolk County Police Department invites the behavioral analysis unit to come out in person. And when they show up, Spoda has them turn around and fly back home. He said their work was redundant. They were turned away on the airfield. And all of this happening in the shadow of Burke's assault on prisoner Chris Loeb, for stealing a duffel bag of, quote, nasty porn. In fact, this memo requesting the FBI's help was dated December 7th, 2012. Just one week later, Burke assaulted Chris Loeb, suggesting the powers that be were trying to contain the fallout from this violent beating when they sent the FBI packing. The federal authorities should be in this case. Apparently, they've been boxed out and told to stay away by Suffolk County. Cases like this is when you have everyone working together in step, not saying, keep the FBI away from this. We don't want them. What? That makes no sense. While working with the FBI might have led to a suspect sooner, in truth, profiles don't actually solve cases. It's usually gumshoe detective work. Just look at David Berkowitz, who was caught by way of a parking ticket, or Bundy, an expired registration. Profiles usually just tell detectives where to look. Yet Suffolk County already knew where to look in Massapequa Park. The same could be said for this highly touted geographical box, which was ultimately unnecessary. Because detectives already had everything they needed to solve this case right from the start. And yet they didn't. Here's both Robert Kolker and Gus Garcia-Roberts. The one source I talked to who remembers the avalanche tip from way back when, what he did not say was, we really racked our brains. We searched high and low. We went looking for that avalanche on every square foot of Suffolk County. And then we just threw up our hands and walked away because we had other things to do. What he said was they ran a search and they couldn't find it. Clearly, they did more than that because the investigating cops were coming back to Dave for confirmation of this lead. so that must have been taken seriously at some point. It's maddening, honestly. The case is so botched that you can't blame people who kind of arrive at the assumption that it's botched on purpose. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. China's Ministry of State Security. is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question. of his life. And that's the unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it, all I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the f***ing bachelor. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So why didn't Suffolk County Police catch lists sooner? It's a question that's haunted us from the very first moment the alleged Rex Heuerman was arrested. But now, having scrutinized Dave Schaller's interview, we can finally search for the devil in the details. As in specifically, why was this clue never followed up on? And why did Suffolk County superiors not know about it? Or did they? And if so, why was that clue filed away? Was it the result of incompetence or something more? In reality, these are questions only Gilgo detectives can answer. Or at least a detective who spent more than two decades commanding one of the most demanding cold case squads Joe Jackalone Coming from this line of work this is a mistake that you cannot afford to make I mean, this is something where you had the clues readily available. In my experience, I think this would have been an automatic reach out to the New York State Police, tell them, we need this done, how many green avalanches in Massapequa, and I want all the driver's license photos on my desk by the time I get back. The chief of detectives himself probably would have called the state police superintendent and said, I need this done now, please. I don't know people saying, oh, come on, Joe. No, listen, a couple of detectives that I worked for, this case would have been wrapped up in 24 hours. Don't you think this clue would have been at least forwarded on to the sergeant and lieutenant? Absolutely. I remember even in Suffolk County and smaller departments, the chain to command always exists, but it's a lot shorter. What's the percentage that it would have went up to chief of detectives at that time? It should have been 100%. 100%. This is Suffolk County where something like this doesn't happen very often. And yet, according to one unnamed source who started overseeing the case in 2011, it was, quote, beyond weird that he wasn't made aware of Schaller's statement. In another article from Gus Garcia Roberts, the chief of detectives, Dominic Verone, states, quote, I'll tell you right now, no suspect vehicle was on our radar when I was still there, which is why we push Gus for his thoughts on Verone's statement. I don't think he is lying, because I think if he was lying about it, he would probably be smart enough to know that something like this would emerge that would call into question why he was saying that. But what if Verone truly didn't know about this ogre in the avalanche? What if these detectives who questioned Schaller over and over again withheld this clue from their superiors because they were instructed to by the man who would later become their boss, James Burke, who along with D.A. Spoda was plotting their takeover of the Suffolk County Police Department. A plot that begins with that very strange fight you might remember. A fight over one serial killer. Verse 2. Suffolk's Police Commissioner Richard Dormer and D.A. Tom Spoda publicly clashed over the Gilgo Beach bodies case before a legislative committee. First, the commissioner reiterated his theory. We still believe it's one killer. Then the DA quickly shot that down. There's no evidence that all of the remains found are the work of a single killer. And Spoda denounced the commissioner for going public with his theory. It really and truly is disturbing. It just makes a very difficult investigation even more difficult. Ten bodies, no suspects. Mona Rivera, 10-10 wins in Hoppog. We now know this public argument was just one piece of Burke and Spoda's Machiavellian plan, to have Burke installed as the new police chief, so that he and Spoda could take over the police department and with it all of Suffolk County. But first, according to Robert Kolker, they had to force out Commissioner Dormer. And the man who had appointed him, the county executive, Steve Levy. In the spring of 2011, when Tom Spoda is publicly lambasting the police commissioner, he also is inches away from engineering a slow motion takeover of the police department. And that begins with neutralizing his big rival, who has the power to appoint the police commissioner. Newly unsealed federal court documents revealing a shocking plot to take down Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy. According to the papers, Thomas Spoda was working with James Burke to get Levy out of office because they saw him as uncontrollable. Uncontrollable because, as Gus Garcia Roberts reveals, they knew there was no way Steve Levy would ever appoint James Burke to police chief, considering his checkered past. James Burke was chief of investigators for the DA's office under Tom Spoda. And Steve Levy was the enormously popular county executive. Burke really would not have survived the vetting needed to be a commissioner. So James Burke kind of leads this extremely shadowy investigation of Steve Levy, which probably involved blackmail. And the guy who rises up in that vacuum and becomes county executive is Steve Ballone. The very first thing that Ballone does against advice from others is he appoints James Burke to be police chief. So going back to the start of this takeover with Spoda trying to publicly humiliate Dormer, could Burke be telling Gilgo detectives, hold tight, he's going to be police chief in nine months, but don't pass up any leads to Chief of Detectives Dominic Verone because he's Dormer's guy and God forbid they solve the case under his watch. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I find that compelling. I think that makes a ton of sense. He would not want this case to be solved under his enemy's jurisdiction. It would completely undermine the selling point that Dormer and Levy were poor at solving crimes. We're not suggesting that Burke instructed detectives to bury the green avalanche tip, but just not to share any leads in the off chance it would lead to a suspect and a win for Dormer. It's a theory that Rob Trotta, a former detective, now Suffolk legislator, has corroborated in interviews just after Heuerman's arrest. I think what happened was, and I know this firsthand because I've talked to retired inspectors and chiefs, they were unaware that the car was there. They were unaware that there was a six-foot-four male as a suspect. They were not being told this. Adding further corroboration to Trotta's comments, when Burke took over as chief, he immediately fired Verone. But why at that point didn't detectives finally action the green avalanche tip? More so, why did detectives, who kept re-interviewing Dave Schaller for more than a year and a half, suddenly stop? The cops stopped coming for some reason. When's the last time the cops were in contact with you? It's been a long time. It's been a long time. Three years, four years? Yeah, three years or so. I actually left a message for them like two years ago. It never got back to me. Back in 2015, three years or so meant 2012, which coincides with Burke replacing Commissioner Dormer on January 1st, 2012. And just like that, his takeover is complete and the tip of the century is buried even deeper. Here's Robert Kolker. I think Burke makes a bad situation worse. You have a department that already is kind of paralyzed because Spoda is taking control of it and then Spoda puts the worst possible person in charge of that department, someone who isn't going to lift a finger to try and find this killer. And then Burke beats up a witness in front of a handful of other people and suddenly they have to spend the next year trying to shut everybody up, and it's all downhill from there. It's a frying pan into the fire situation, and it takes years to recover from. He was gone by 2016, and then this task force didn't come in until 2023. Tragically, we may never know the answer as to what really happened to the tip of the century and why it was lost for so long. As for finally catching Lisk, you might say the biggest step the Gilgo Beach Task Force ever took to overcome the mistakes of the past was also the simplest, to start digitizing their files. First thing we did was digitalize it. I mean, you have 13 years of investigation. If you don't digitalize it, if you don't make it searchable, then you have to manually go through literally reams of paperwork. So then you go through it. Less than one month after the task force started digging into their files, they came across the tip that Dave Schaller had given them 11 years ago. That investigator started this assignment in February of 2022. In March of 2022, this same New York State Police investigator reported that a potential suspect had been identified. This suspect was Rex Heuerman. The tip that had been there all along, Presumably right in those first few boxes they pulled off the shelf, right on top of the proverbial pile. But even after more than a decade of this malfeasance that allowed Rex Eurman to roam free, and even with Tom Spoda and James Burke serving prison sentences, as Gus Garcia Roberts tells us, the mistakes of the past were tragically unlikely to be learned from. There was this kind of willful ignorance. After Burke was brought down and Spoda was brought down, I was like, okay, now we're going to be a regular law enforcement jurisdiction again. But I think it would be naive to think that that's not something that's continuing. The cops are still in Suffolk County, among the highest paid in the nation. They're extremely powerful. The voting block that the police have is really unique out in Long Island because a quarter of NYPD lives out in Long Island. You combine that with the Long Island departments, and you have a really powerful, massive, moneyed voting bloc, that hasn't changed. And that's what led to the rise of James Burke, right, was this political power that the police had. So considering that that hasn't changed, I don't see the police impunity changing. This case was investigated through five Suffolk police commissioners, three Suffolk DAs, and two Suffolk county executives. And the breakthrough came after looking at existing evidence. So I've been asked, could this or should this case have been solved earlier? Well, you know, as I've been saying, I took office in January. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict? A villain? A nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was No voicing of any skepticism or doubt It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the f***ing. Rats work! Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In September 2025, the Suffolk County DA ruled a major victory in the upcoming trial against Rex Hureman, when the judge ruled to allow DNA evidence obtained through cutting-edge technology known as whole genome sequencing. Since New York State doesn't have the death penalty, Hewerman could face life without the possibility of parole. But if he's convicted, his DNA will be entered into CODIS, the FBI's national DNA database. And if that profile matches unsolved murders in death penalty states like South Carolina or Nevada, where Hewerman owns property, he could face capital charges. D.A. Tierney has said there's no plea deal on the table, But in cases like this, there's always that possibility. This case inches toward trial. Rex Eurman is accused in the murders of seven women. This is a case that has taken so many years to get to where we are, and there are still so many questions. Rex Eurman's trial is expected to begin sometime in 2026, and we'll be there to cover it. As of this recording, he's been charged with seven murders, but the four other victims remain open cases Tatiana Marie Dykes formerly known as Baby Doe and the victim once called Asian Doe fall under Suffolk County Karen Vergata and Tanya Denise Jackson, a.k.a. Peaches, are Nassau County cases. It's still unclear whether Nassau has enough evidence to move forward with indictments. It's also believed that authorities have identified Asian Doe, but still haven't released his name. And then there's Valerie Mack. Six of the seven murders he remained as charged with were believed to have taken place in his home, except for hers, which raises the possibility of another kill site and potentially more victims, a theory suggested by former police commissioner Richard Dormer all the way back in 2015. I've always expressed the feeling that there may be more bodies out there and that he may be using another dumping ground. I believe he hasn't stopped. Okay, he needs this. His psyche needs this. Does he have a new dumping ground? I would say yes. Another outstanding question is whether we're going to learn more about James Burke's alleged obstruction in the Gilgo case. It's assumed Hewerman's defense is going to introduce Burke or at least his past deeds at trial in an effort to sow reasonable doubt as to whether Hewerman is solely responsible for the crimes. As for Burke, he's been making headlines of his own in recent years. James Burke was once the highest-ranking uniformed officer in the Suffolk County Police Department. Today, the former police chief pled not guilty to charges of public lewdness and indecent exposure after getting caught in an undercover sting in August. Disgraced former police chief James Burke, released from jail in 2019 after serving just 40 months for assault and obstruction of justice was arrested again in 2023 after allegedly soliciting sex and masturbating in front of a plainclothes park ranger at 10 a.m. in the morning at a Long Island park. The former police chief was arrested just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. Prosecutors say he tried to solicit a sex act from a male undercover officer. He is said to have pleaded with officers to spare him the humiliation of an arrest, even asking, do you know who I am? As for convicted and disbarred District Attorney Tom Spoda, after his release from prison, he worked as an administrative clerk under the supervision of hotshot criminal defense attorney Anthony LaPinta, who had previously defended him in court. It's been reported that Spoda's duties are part of his work release program. Suffolk's former district attorney has been released from a federal prison. This comes less than three years into Thomas Spoda's five-year sentence. As we've reported, the 82-year-old was convicted in 2019 of trying to cover up then-Suffolk Police Chief James Burke's beating of a handcuffed suspect. Systemic corruption takes a notoriously long time to undo. Not years, but decades. And by all indications, the convictions of James Burke and Tom Spoda haven't had the kind of impact many of us had hoped for. Case in point, James Burke, a convicted felon, still receives a taxpayer-funded pension of $145,000 a year. Tom Spoda, $123,000 a year. And that's not even counting the nearly $435,000 Burke walked away with in 2016 for unused, sick and vacation time. Here's Jimmy the King author Gus Garcia-Roberts with his take. I think that people are always surprised to learn that he still gets a pension. If I remember correctly, $150,000 a year. How can that be? I mean, you're talking about a guy who single-handedly helped bring down Suffolk County Police Department. Not only that, but all the other cops involved in his conspiracy still get pensions too, including people who are convicted of felonies in that case. I think once that gets more light and people understand that, then maybe outrage will grow. Nor does it seem like the Suffolk County Police Department has truly reckoned with this long, complicated relationship with sex workers. If anything, the problems still persist. Just four days before writing this episode, a former Suffolk County detective pled guilty, admitting he worked as a pimp in a prostitution ring that ran on Long Island from 2019 to 2024. Former Suffolk police officer George Trimigliozzi was among three people who pleaded guilty today. They are accused of running prostitution brothels. It's being called a massive betrayal of public trust. A suspended Suffolk police officer facing new charges of rape and sexual abuse. This comes after he and three others were charged with running an alleged prostitution ring. Tremigliozzi, who will be sentenced to two years incarceration for promoting prostitution, was an 18-year veteran of the Suffolk County Police Department and had won cop of the month six times. Seems as much as things change, they stay the same. Last summer I went to my first pre-trial hearings in the Gilgo Beach case. And I remember the murmur that went through the crowd as Rex was let into the courtroom. I admit I wanted that thrill of seeing a real-life monster in the flesh. And yes, Rex was huge, his massive hands shackled behind his hulking back. But what I saw instead was the true paradox of Rex Jormann. Because for someone so big, so massive, all I saw was someone so weak and so small. Too weak to fight the rage that he gave in to. Too weak to overcome the revenge he fantasized about. Too weak to seek help. And so instead, he chose to inflict pain. That same pain he once felt. Now onto so many others. Onto the victims. Onto their families. Onto their parents, sisters, and brothers. And worst of all, their children. Thus perpetuating the cycle. Unable to fight the monsters, you might say Rex chose to become one. But then, we'd be giving him too much credit, wouldn't we? Here's Dr. Joni Johnston. If you call Rex Huron a monster, meaning he's otherworldly, then he's not like us. We could never be like Rex Huron because we're normal people. And the opposite of that is true. I used to work in a maximum security prison and I interviewed many murderers. And I've never gone away being like, wow, this guy seems so powerful. It's like, no, you're giving this person unnatural power, even if it's evil power. And you're saying that this person is so unique that we can never understand this person. It's like, yeah, we can. You know, this person is somebody who was unable to do in life what most of us can do, which is learn to cope without hurting other people. This is not a hard person to understand. Dr. Johnston was right. Because there's something about that day Rex was arrested you don't know. The minute I saw that photo of Rex, I remembered that interview. we did with Dave Schaller and his description of the man he thought killed Amber. The man he called a beast or Frankenstein, but most importantly, a monster. That's when I knew we'd fallen into that age-old trap, believing that Lisk was something more. An elusive boogeyman, an evil genius, something he obviously was not. In fact, if we realized back then just how easy he was to understand. How he was just like us. Fallible. Impulsive. Human. And who knows? Maybe we could have caught him all those years ago. Here's profiler Mark Safrick. I think we give too much credit to these offenders. We want to try to make Hoyerman out to be like this super villain, right? He seems to be careful. Like, I got to destroy data. I've got to wipe my hard drive. I've got to burn all this evidence. But hey, let me just keep all the newspaper articles in my safe. We see this a lot when offenders just think they're untouchable. He's got a hair literally on almost all of his victims that belongs to someone in his family, him, his wife, his daughter. He's deceived law enforcement for 17 years. But I think there were a lot of other things that went along with that. I think he could have been apprehended much earlier on, but I don't think that he survived 17 years because he's a super, super smart guy. In the end, what allowed Rex Ureman, the alleged Long Island serial killer, to get away with so much for so long, had nothing to do with how much he researched or studied or how carefully he planned. It wasn't that he used burner cell phones or chose the perfect dumping ground. or that he even changed his M.O. What allowed Rex to get away with it wasn't anything he did. It's what we did. And almost everything the police did. Whether it's bitter irony or just dumb luck, the only thing Rex Heuerman, the alleged Long Island serial killer, ever did right was to pick the perfect place to commit his crimes. Suffolk County. Long Island. Ready to keep listening? Remember, you can binge the rest of the season right now with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you get exclusive bonuses and ad-free listening. So head to Apple Podcasts, search iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer is a production of Tenderfoot TV. and iHeart Podcasts. Hosted, written, and executive produced by me, Josh Zeman. Produced and written by Caitlin Colford. Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young are executive producers on behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Original music by Alex Lassarenko, David Little, and Makeup and Vanity Set. Our supervising producer is John Street. Editing and writing by Daniel Lonsberry. Additional voiceover provided by Rachel Mills. Additional production provided by Ghost Robot. Sound design mix and master by Dayton Cole. Cover design by Byron McCoy. Interns Arnetta Fontenot, Shelby Hansen, Alec Walker, and Fox Williams. A&E Television Networks, LLC. Audio from the killing season used under license. Copyright 2025, A&E Television Networks, LLC. All rights reserved. Special thanks to the team at United Talent Agency, The Nord Group, Brad Abramson, Todd Leibovitz, Rich Perillo and Jigsaw Productions, Rachel Mills, Zachary Mortensen, Jen Beagle, David Baker, Joe Jackalone, and Evan Krause, as well as the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media at monster underscore pod. For more podcasts like Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app or visit tenderfoot.tv. And if you want to keep following my hunt for the Long Island Serial Killer or a deeper dive into my other true crime content, join me on YouTube at Sinister with Josh Zeman. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune. It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. No, I am not your guru. Back then, I lied to everybody. They have had this case for 30 years. I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Is the government hiding proof of intelligent life beyond our planet? A new season of High Strange is here. The explanation keeps changing, but the stories don't go away. Videos appearing to show UFOs flying through the air are real. My name is Payne Lindsey, and my new season of High Strange goes deeper into real encounters. first-hand accounts, and the explanations that never seem to stick. Images of that rotating thing captured by U.S. Navy aircraft. I talked to scientists, military witnesses, pilots, and people who saw something they can't unsee. There was no other explanation for what we saw that day. I remembered those faces and they weren't human. High Strange is available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To binge the entire season of High Strange now, ad-free, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.