2026 Publishing Trends

Hi everyone and welcome to Bad on Paper podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor. And I'm Becca Freeman. And today we're talking about 2026 Publishing Trends. Yeah, we have two experts that we're talking to, one book agent and one bookseller. And I'm really curious to hear what they're seeing in the publishing industry. I mean, I think we have our own theories as readers and as authors, but I'm really curious to get their expert opinions. Me too. And they both have such great specific taste. So I'm looking forward to it. Before we get to that, tell me you're high. It's been a while since we recorded. We recorded the last two episodes in advance. So there's been a lot of time for highs and lows in between. A lot of time. And I will say it's been a good two weeks. I went to Charleston. I had a nice book event. I saw my parents. The weather was perfect. But I got back and the vibes have just been good. I feel really good. I got back home with this renewed spring energy. Oh, I love that. I just started cleaning out my entire house. Donated I can't even thousands of pieces of clothing, it felt like. Listed some stuff on Poshmark too, but mostly just got rid of stuff. We're cleaning out rooms, getting ready for the kitchen. We're planning stuff. I'm working all the time. I'm not spending a lot of time on my phone. I'm reading a ton. I just feel like the vibes are good and spring is around the corner, even though it is not great here today weather wise. But I believe it's close. I did my first day in the garden working, getting the leaves out and seeing all of the little sprouts underneath the leaves was such a nice metaphor for spring is coming. So yeah, it's just the vibes are strong. The vibes are good. Love, love hearing that. Tell me about your high. Well, I had to narrow it down. I had about four highs, but I'm picking two. So the first thing as a follow up to a low I had a few weeks ago that I was kind of dilly dallying on getting started with book three. I'm happy to report that I've started and I'm just taking it really light and easy. I hopefully have set myself some very achievable goals. And I'm just waiting in like I'm only up to my knees, you know, like I'm like six thousand words in, but the water feels good. I'm excited. Good, light and easy. I like the sound of that. We'll see if I can make it last on your sub stack. You shared your post that you posted when you started your second book. Yeah. And you're saying light and easy, light and easy, and then you weren't. No. But now, now. There are times of charm, baby. Sometimes it takes the time, you know, but I love to hear that. So yeah, that is exciting to be on the road and to be in a new project. I can already feel the obsession seeds kind of. Oh, I love that. Propagating. And then my other high is that started buying some things for my apartment. I have been here officially two months and I made it just shy of two months. I hadn't bought a single thing for the apartment other than, you know, random organization bins, et cetera, and had a great meeting with my interior designer last Friday and we started to make some decisions. So I am really excited to start to see the apartment come together. That's so exciting. I saw the rug, the runner you posted, which was so funny because I have been looking at that same site, Green Row. I have never heard of it. Some random pieces here and there. Yeah, it's so cute. And I love like the English sort of style and sensibility with home decor. So I love that you shared it and I love the runner. It looked so nice. Well, I think that I am doing some surgery that we're going to combine two runners together to make it long enough. So, oh, yeah. You know, weirdly, I have a similar project coming up because after we refinish the floors and the stairs, we're going to get a stair runner, which will be interesting because I doubt I can find a runner at the right length and we're doing it ourselves. I think I can't stand to pay like a carpet company to do that. Because I like you just need staples, you know, a stapler. Oh, I'm having a professional do this. I mean, I don't have a sewing machine period, but I think this is the type of thing that you need some industrial tools for. Yeah, I will probably grow to regret this DIY, but I like the innovation happening. Yeah. So things are starting to arrive. Shipping is fast right now. Nothing goes together that has arrived. Like I have dining room chairs, but no dining room table. My office rug is coming tomorrow, but the rug pad won't be here for two weeks. So, you know, have you picked out a dining room table? I have. Yeah. Okay. That's exciting. It's on order. Want to hear about that? Things are going to start happening. Is your goal to have it done by the end of summer or earlier? No, I don't have any specific goal. I mean, I think, you know, depending on shipping lead times, it should definitely come together by the end of the summer, but kind of just trying to make the right choices. There's definitely some like logic puzzles of orders of operation. Like I'm going to wallpaper the bathroom, but first we need to switch out the light and the medicine cabinet. So, you know, there's like some process going on, but yeah, I'm excited. Well, I can't wait to hear about it because I'm in a similar stage with dining room, kitchen stuff. We're about to order all the appliances. So I'm like, here we go. It's happening. That's exciting. Well, what's your low? I have a very vain, stupid low that I wonder if anyone has advice on. So I do too, actually. Oh, good. So yes, we're in this together. So do you remember a few years ago when one of my New Year's goals was to start dyeing my hair, start dyeing my graze, which I have. But I am having this problem that the dye and I'm just doing like a single process dye. It doesn't permanently stick to my graze. So it bleaches out over time and it kind of ends up looking like a dingy blonde highlight because it's brown dye that's like clinging for dear life to white hair. And I don't quite have. It's not the full Stacy London white streak, but I do have this one section in my hair on one side in my kind of mid layers that is pretty white. And so I'm going to the hair salon after this and I'm going to talk to my hairdresser about it too, but I'm like, is there is there a solution to this or is this just aging? There must be. There must be. I would assume so because this is something that a lot of women are doing. So there has to be a product, a solution, a treatment. I feel like you're lucky as a natural blonde. Your whites and your graze are going to be easier to mask. Natural blonde is generous at this point. My mom's hair is like, she says it's not really gray. It just kind of gets like dishwaterish, which is basically the color of my hair naturally at this point. So which I love a like silver gray hair moment, even like an ashy gray, I think looks really nice. But we'll see. I haven't really found a true gray hair yet, but Jake is going very salt and pepper, which of course he looks incredible, of course, of course, and has no interest in doing anything about it. But I just go deeper, deeper into dishwater. But yeah, if any listeners have the solution for this, please let me know. What is your vein petty low? So you may see here this mark on my neck. It's like this quarter sized red mark on my neck in the very middle of the front of my neck. It looks like a weird hickey. Yes, it does. Not ideal. So I woke up one morning in Charleston towards the beginning of our trip and I saw it and I kind of thought it was just, you know, when you sleep, you kind of wake up, you have red marks. I'm very fair and prone to redness. So I was like, whatever. But I went about my day and it stayed and it stayed. I woke up the next morning. It was there. It was still there. And then I had a really similar mark on my leg, which was weird, like on my knee area. And I couldn't figure it out. And then I realized what it was and it was that I had been drinking a diet coke with lime as it was in the sun. And I remember this thing. My mom had it once. Yes, I got a lime burn or a margarita burn. And I guess I had touched my neck and I touched my leg and I was in the sun. And so now I have this chemical burn on my neck, which truly does look like a hickey on the front of my neck, which great. And it's really hard to cover with makeup. I have to wear sunscreen on it every day because apparently it can become darker. I've had this for two weeks now. Apparently it can last even longer than that. And then it could just develop into a dark spot. I'm like, can I just catch a break here? I don't need it. It could be anywhere else. It is truly dead center front of my neck, like middle where everyone can see it. It's just it feels whatever. It's fine. Who cares? But I don't like the idea. It'll be there forever. I feel like it will heal. I feel like that is the outside case that it, you know, is there forever. But, you know, I think you could really make up a story to go with it. You could tell people that you were visited by a vampire. You could tell people it was Edward Cullen. You can make it so weird for other people that they want you to stop. I could. And I'm pretty sure asking. I could. I probably won't. But well, I'm just saying that option is available to you. It is available. It does really look like a hickey, though. And it's like this weird shape, too. I don't know. It's it doesn't look like a hickey because that would be a very weird location for a hickey. It would have to be like a vampire style. Like you're laying there and the other person like goes above you and to the side. Seeds from you. They're eating a corn of cob. Yeah. Corn of cob. Cob of corn. Oh, I didn't even I didn't even get that. Like that you mess that up to my mind. I was just like, uh-huh. Corn of cob does sound kind of right. But it does. It is not. Anyway, so yeah, that is my vein. If anyone has any ideas of that or any dermatologist in the house, I already have an appointment at the end of May. So I'm like, you're still there at the end of May. I'm going to be like, laser it off, do something. But let's hope it's not. Well, hopefully it's not. But we can work on your backstory if it if it does persist. We'll develop a narrative. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's take an ad break and let's get into these interviews. Today's episode is sponsored by Coase Earth. This year is flying. And I can hardly believe that Mother's Day is already coming up on May 10th. Maybe you're shopping for a mom in your life, or maybe you're being shopped for and you want to drop some crafty hints about a gift you'd like to receive. And I can think of no better gift than something from Coase Earth that helps you or the mom in your life unwind. So my first idea here is the Coase Earth Puffy sheep slippers. So I asked for these for Christmas and it was such a great move. They truly feel like putting a cloud on your feet. I had never been a slipper person before, but we were having some heating issues in my old apartment, which prompted this gift. And now I can't imagine my life without them. And the best part of a gift from Coase Earth is that it's the kind of gift that's going to get used every single day. Another great option is to consider one of their robes. And there are quite a few to choose from with Coase Earth that are plush and quilted and waffle, just like my favorite Coase Earth towels. Or they have a stretch knit. There's really something for everyone. And a gift from Coase Earth is risk free with their 100 night sleep trial and 10 year warranty. Let this Mother's Day be a reminder that she deserves care, too. Discover how Coase Earth turns everyday routines into moments of softness and ease. Head to CoaseEarth.com and use our code BOP for an exclusive 20% off. And if you see a post purchase survey, be sure to mention that you heard about Coase Earth right here on Bad on Paper because home starts with mom. For one of Shay's guests, we have Emily Summer, who is the book buyer at East City Bookshop in Washington, D.C. She loves literary fiction, the more devastating, the better, all manners of memoir, especially celebrity memoir and psychological thrillers. She's a native South Carolinian who has lived on Capitol Hill since 2005 and joined East City Bookshop just before it opened 10 years ago. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Good morning. Well, one of the key reasons I wanted to have you on for this episode is that you were the first person to put the correspondent on my radar last year. Probably in May or June. And then it went on to become this huge word of mouth success, which I feel like you kind of predicted when you told me about it. You were saying that it was one of those books that somebody buys in the store and then tells four people about. So it felt very much like a word of mouth under the radar success that just grew and grew. Well, so now I'm curious if you can do it again. So what are you seeing right now in the store? Like what are customers gravitating towards? What are you seeing work in the store that maybe isn't represented right now on the New York Times bestseller list yet? Well, I will say first off, the correspondent continues to sell. And just when we think like surely everyone has purchased it and everyone has bought it and read it, that is not the case. And I have to remind my coworkers, you know, that things that seem obvious to us that have been, you know, for months are people are still discovering it. So the correspondent is still selling like crazy for us. The wedding people by Alison Esbach is still moving and growing. And I'll see, you know, one week I'll think, oh, maybe it's finally slipped. And no, it is still selling like crazy. Oh, Heart the Lover by Lily King continues to grow and grow and grow. And for me, that tells me that what people want are very well written stories that are very human and that are about our connection with each other. And I'm trying to think what other, what newer ones this year are starting to pop out in that way. It's still a little bit early. Ken by Terry Jones is doing very well and continues to grow. That one was very highly anticipated, certainly not under the radar at all, because everybody loved an American marriage so much and was so eager for her return. But I'm seeing that one steadily build. And I actually I don't keep up with what is on the New York Times bestseller list to know how much it differs from our own. I look at the indie bestsellers list and I look at what's selling in the store. And I don't entirely know how that is different from the national list. I will say that I know that the celebrity memoirs that I like aren't necessarily the celebrity memoirs that are on the New York Times bestseller list. So there are certainly things that will pop and will sell millions of copies that we don't move at all. So it looks like this week, look at hardcover fiction, the Abbey Jimenez is number one. Yes. And then the Judge Stone, the Viola Davis and James Patterson is number two. And then the correspondent is number three. So the correspondent is still up there for everybody. That's great. We have sold the Viola Davis. That's not one of our top sellers, but that one has sold for us. And we do a lot of romance sales. So we have also sold the Abbey Jimenez. So that is no surprise, but that is very, that is very helpful to know. Are you noticing any categories that used to be the thing or like the hottest section books of the store start to wane at all or shift? I'll be interested to hear what your expert about romantic says, because I have seen a little bit of a drop in romantic sales in our store, where we're not selling fourth wing and Sarah J. Moss as much as we were a few months ago, or at the end of last year, and we're not seeing new franchises rise up to take their place, I think, in the way that some publishers hoped that they would. So I would say that is waning slightly, but it's still, it is still a presence in the store in a way that it was not three years ago. So even a dip, it's still there. Becca mentioned in my bio that I like really dark, gritty, psychological thrillers. I will say this might be a representation of where we are in DC, where everybody really wants an escape from heavy things. I am seeing more cozier mysteries or more pleasant mysteries, even if they're not cozy by genre, something more like along the lines of a Richard Osman, do better than something really, really dark and gritty. And I think that's just a function of at least in our store, people want something to take them out of the news and how heavy things seem already. Yeah, I can definitely see that. I feel that in my own taste, like I can't handle sad the way I maybe once could. Yeah, I was never one for scary, but in terms of like darker, sad. I go either way. Sometimes I'm like, I want the darker. I feel things feel bad enough. Take me somewhere even darker so I can exercise it on the page and feel catharsis. But there have been a couple of times over the last year and a half or so where I've thought, you know what, that might be too much even for me. And that's when we know in the store that things are really bad, because if it's too, if I can't even read sad, then everybody needs an escape. Well, let's talk about the book buying side. So in a crowded landscape, before a book even comes out, before you have real reader input, you have potentially early reader input from our creators. But what inputs are you using to decide whether or not to stock a book in the first place? And like, what signals are you looking at to say, I think this book is going to be big? That is a great question. And that is what everybody always wants to know about book buying. And I always say, I heard this somewhere and I wish I could remember where. So I could attribute it correctly. People in the book biz say that the buying is both an art and a science. And the art side of it is just sort of instinct and gut feeling. The science of it is that luckily we live in an age of data. And so I can look at numbers and I can look at sales figures and I can see how similar titles have performed in our store. I am better at the art than I am at the science. I am better at the gut feeling of, you know, the correspondence, people are going to love this than I am about the numbers. Although, thankfully, I have the numbers at my fingertips so I can check. One thing that I look at this has changed over the last 10 years of being a buyer, because it was not something that was on my radar when I started. I pay a lot of attention to the editor. Oh, I know who's list I really like. And I know if certain editors edit it, either it's going to be one of my personal favorites or it's going to be something that is very tailored to our store. The head of Little Brown, Olivia's house, Sally Kim, is one of those taste makers for me. Like if Sally Kim has her fingerprints on it and or Sally tells me that I like it. I know that that's true. But there are lots of editors like that. I know last year we talked about Karina Giederman, who had so many good hits last year. And there are a lot of editors. So that's one thing that I look at. I think, oh, if Sarah McGrath at Riverhead edited this, it's going to be an Emily favorite, and it's going to be really, really good. She's Liz Morris editor. She's Miranda July's editor. All kinds of wonderful stuff. Emma Stroud, maybe. So I look a lot at the editor. Is there a way for consumers to look at that data? I don't know if there is a way before the book is published. The best way after a book is published is to look at the acknowledgments. Right. Because there's no database. Like it's not on. Not that I know of. I see it in through the publisher and bookseller interface, Adelweiss. But that is not a consumer facing. You can see it in announcements. I pay attention to it in announcements, but that's you really have to be, I think, kind of deep in the right. Right. Like if you're in the publisher's weekly news, yeah. You also have to hold on to that information for a while. Right. Usually those are being announced a year or two before the book comes out. So far in advance. So for the other things that I look at when I'm buying, I mean, I look at the author's track record, I look at sales of similar titles. I do look at blurbs. So I look at which fellow authors have already blurbed the book. I know there is some controversy about that because people debate the utility of blurbs. For me, it's useful in that it tells me where the publisher is positioning that book. So I know based on who they are getting to stand behind the book that those are similar readers. And so I know, OK, this is supposed to appeal to fellow readers, people who like, you know, Becca Friedman, Laura Hankin, Emily Henry, etc. So that's helpful to me. And I look at the print runs too, because that tells me I don't want to have just the things that have enormous print runs. I want, especially in an independent store, I want people to be able to find hidden gems and smaller things. But I do know that if something has an enormous print run, that that means that the publisher is backing it and I should have it represented in the store because somebody is going to hear about it and they're going to come in and look for it. I have a follow up question to this. How much does it the science part of it matter? Like, can you take a wait and see approach? Obviously, you miss out on on those sales that of somebody coming into the store looking for something that doesn't want to wait to order it. But how fast do books come to you if you all of a sudden say, oh, my gosh, we did not go deep enough on the Viola Davis book and we've miscalculated. We are lucky because where we are on the East Coast, I can get things usually the next day or in two days. Oh, wow. OK. I still try to buy seasonally. So I do buy in advance. I am hopeful that I'm not trying to chase the title. So I try to err on the side of having what we need. But in a pinch, I can usually get things really fast. That is not the case for every bookstore across the country, because depending on how close they are to a publisher or a distribution warehouse, it can take some stores a lot longer than others. We get a lot of our books from Westminster, Maryland or Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. And so everything's within like a day transit. So I'm lucky. I can I can sort of wait and see if I have to. And I do reorder books every single day. So every morning I look at the books that sold yesterday in the store and then I reorder accordingly. So when I buy my initial buys, I'm usually looking to see what can carry me through the first just the first few weeks. And we're lucky enough to that we've been around long enough now that we have a little bit of space in the store for storage and we have enough cash flow that I can kind of go go a little bit bigger to protect ourselves in that way, because I don't want to lose the sale because you lose too many sales and then you lose a customer. I want to err on the side of having too many, but in a pinch, I can I can fill in unless the publisher has not printed enough. And that's the heated rivalry of it all. That the heated rivalry of it all. Goodness. Now, the good thing was that all bookstores were pretty much in the same boat, so we were all chasing those titles. But yeah, that was tricky. We could not get those in fast enough. Well, looking forward to the rest of the year, we obviously both love your taste. I'd love to know what are even three books that you're excited about this year. This is one I was preparing this question in the shower. I was like, what books? How do I narrow it down? I'm so excited. And you can't see behind me, but I have like literally stacks of books to remind myself what to talk about. One that I wanted to mention, because I feel like it has a very bad on paper vibe. I just feel like your listeners have such good taste. A curated rec. A curated. These are curated recs. That's what we do in an independent bookstore. We give these are personal recs. So one that I am very excited about is called Leave Your Mess At Home by Tolani Akinola, and it comes out April 14th, if I'm not mistaken. So you don't have to wait very long for this one. I do not have my copy of it in the store. I wish I did. I mean, in my house right now. So I wish I did because I would hold it up because it has one of the best covers of the season. But it is about a Nigerian-American family in Chicago, four siblings in their 20s and early 30s. It's a debut. It's from an editor that I love, as I mentioned earlier. Her name is Seema Mahanian. She is fantastic. She's got such great taste and her her stuff is so fresh and interesting. And it's coming out from Viking and Pamela Dorman books. But I believe that Reese Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine had some sort of publishing. I don't know if it's an incubator. They had some sort of publishing discovery process, and it came up, if I'm not mistaken, through that process. And I think Tolani Akinola was mentored in some capacity by Curtis Sittenfeld. Oh, but I read this book last year and it is just wonderful. It's got these great sibling dynamics for siblings in very different places in their lives. And you see all of them in sort of different areas of their coming of age. It's funny. It's got great music. It's got great food and it made me cry. It's just wonderful. So I think that it's one that when people find it, I think it's one that people will want to recommend to their friends. This one's been lingering on my list for months. So you've you've finally given me the shove to bump it up. I've heard Blue Sisters comps to it. Yes, that's a good. That's one of my I haven't I actually haven't read that one, which it feels like a miss on my part because it's so in my wheelhouse. I love a sibling story, I think, because I'm an only child and I just haven't gotten to it yet. Sometimes things get so big that they don't need me to sell them. And then they're so big that I miss them. So Blue Sisters still on my list, but I think that's a great. I think that's a great comp and will appeal to the same readers. Another one that is coming out and this is an Olivia wreck. This is one that I feel like would be in your wheelhouse, Olivia, because I think you like kind of the mystery, like suspense like I do. I don't know if it's on your radar yet. It's called Five by Alona Bannister. Have you heard of this one? No, I haven't. Coming from Crown in May. It's a one sitting read like people say that this is truly like I read it in one sitting at a coffee shop. I read it because I was under deadline. I had told the editor that I would read it, but it was not. It was like the biggest pleasure of the big. It was such a joy to read it. It's five people on a London Tube platform. You know that one of them is about to meet a terrible end. You've got literally just a few minutes and it's in real time. You're finding out what's happening with all these people who's going to die. What's going on? It's wild, but it's excellent and very smart. There's a lot. It's propulsive and a page turner, but there's like there's substance. Going on in the story that she's telling about each of these characters. So five by Alona Bannister coming in May, I think is another really good one for somebody who likes suspense. That sounds great. Thank you. I hear the click clacking in the background of Olivia like. Sorry. Yeah. I'm finding no finding the book like your recommendation hit home. And now I'm trying to think where do I go with with only one more? Oh, there's so many. OK, I just finished the new Patrick Rad and Keith book, which comes out tomorrow. Called London Falling. So this is my nonfiction rec. He wrote, Say Nothing, Empire of Pain, the king of narrative nonfiction that reads like a novel. I mean, just the smartest person in the room, probably. I feel like I would read anything that he writes. But London Falling is about the death of a London teenager in 2019. He falls or jumps off of a building into the Thames. And as Patrick Rad and Keith investigates that death, he also looks at how London has changed in the last 25 years, how finance has changed it, how the presence of Russian oligarchs has changed it, the kind of organized crime that might be happening there and what our children might be up to that we as parents have no idea about. So that sounds good. That one does not need me to sell it. He will sell like a zillion copies because he is Patrick Rad and Keith. But it is it is as good as everybody anticipated it would be. And now I'm looking at all the things that are right in front of me that I haven't even mentioned. And there are so many. Well, I have a twist on that question that will give you an opportunity to potentially recommend more books. OK, so I know you are also, as I am, very passionate about Book of the Year, Book of the Summer discourse. Yes, apparently the only thing we cannot bet on on Polymarket or maybe it is on there, who knows. But if you were putting your chips on like two books making it big this year, where were you putting them? In terms of like commercial sales or award winningness, I would say commercial sales. OK, commercial sales, but not like the hyper obvious like Sarah J. Mosse's A Quarter Thorns and Roses Six, because that will obviously probably be the answer, but that's not very interesting if you haven't read the first five. OK, it's right in front of me and I'm going to go with it. I think that Chloe Benjamin's book, Understory, is going to do really well. And I have not read it yet. She wrote The Immortalists. I read an arc. Have you read it already? Did you love it? It's a lot. It's intense. OK, I love intent. Yeah, to me, I I comped it sort of to like a weird love child of Wild Dark Shore and Project Hail Mary, but with more science. OK, so like I can see it really hitting, but it isn't it is intense. So the reason that one just jumped out at me is because last week I saw both Stephen Roley, who wrote The Guncle and The Celebrant. I saw Steve talking about it and I saw Ann Napolitano talking about it. And I feel like I saw one other person. Like it felt like it has authors from different spheres coalescing around it. I think there's a lot of reader interest in it because I think people loved The Immortalists. And so that's my answer. And I could keep going with lots of that. I think Jenny Jackson's book is going to do really well. I think that'll be a great summer seller. Emma Stropes, it comes out tomorrow is so fun. American Fantasy, absolutely delightful. And then there are so many literary, like very literary heavy hitters that have books coming out this year that if there's one 2026 trend, it would be every great author has a new book this year. And we don't have time to read them all. So I don't know. There are lots of possible options, but the Chloe Benjamin is just jump and jumping out at me right now. OK. Yeah. OK. So if people would like to keep up with more of your recommendations, where can they find you on the internet or in person if they want more? You can find me in person at East City Book Shop on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC. You can find me on Instagram at Emily G. Summer. But be warned, I do post a lot about books, but I also post my children and lots of concerts, so it is not a bookstore account. You might get more than you bargained for, but you can find me in both of those places. Thank you so much. Let's take another ad break. This episode is sponsored by Ritual. You know, we love a good routine here, and one that we've both been working on making a habit is our vitamin routines. So for me, moving recently was a huge time of upheaval. But I felt like I had a little piece of mind knowing that I was hitting my nutrient goals, even as cooking for myself kind of went out the window for a little bit there. Ritual's team of scientists poured over thousands of studies to identify common gaps between nutritional needs and what people are actually consuming across different life stages to build a vitamin that supports foundational health. I take my essential for women 18 plus multivitamin. Basically, anytime I can remember throughout the day, and I keep it in the same cabinet that I keep my water cup. So whenever I'm going to get a cup of water, I see my little pill case and I take my vitamins. 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Right now you can save up to two hundred and thirty dollars on the 12 piece cookware set versus buying the products individually. And you can find even more set savings when you shop Caraway's full kitchenware collection. Visit CarawayHome.com slash BOP to take an additional 10 percent off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive for our listeners. So visit CarawayHome.com slash BOP or use code BOP at checkout. We are so excited to have Alyssa Morris back with us. She's an agent with Trellis Literary Management, representing romance and romantic authors, which is new since the last time we talked to her in 2025. So we'll get into that. And she also writes the Romancing the Phone newsletter where she covers book talk trends. Alyssa, welcome back. Thank you so much for having me again. Delighted to be here. Well, I was just telling you before we started recording that I've loved some of the pieces that you've been putting together about the direction that the romance genre is headed in and kind of what's in and what's out with readers. So I was thinking we could talk about some of that and more today. But before we get into trends, since we last talked to you, which I think was 2025, you've moved into agenting. So first of all, congratulations. But can you tell us a little bit about making that leap? Sure. Thank you so much. It's interesting. It's like I was on a path my whole life that was sort of leading here, but never totally made sense until it happened. If that makes sense. I mean, I started my career in book publishing in New York. I was an editorial intern at Berkeley right out of college. I went and I worked at Amazon on the physical books marketing team for a couple of years, but I moved to Austin in 2015 and sort of thought that my time in publishing was over just because of the way the publishing world works and how centralized it is. And I actually ended up post 2020 meeting some people in Austin. Alison Hunter, who's one of the partners at Trellis, we became very good friends and we would talk about books all the time. And with the way the romance industry has shifted at a certain point, she was like, this is your moment to come back to romance. We're missing a voice like yours that's really connected to the readers. So I started scouting for her initially, and then it went so well. She brought me in as a full agent at Trellis and it's been wonderful. Everyone at Trellis is amazing and so supportive. And my first internship in college was for a literary agent. So it does feel extremely full circle for me. Well, it feels so natural. I can think of very few people who know more about the romance genre than you do. That's OK. Thank you. So as someone who is sort of a triple threat, agent newsletter writer who covers reading book trends and then also an avid reader yourself, I feel like you probably have one of the best perspectives on the romance genre and the industry. So what are you seeing really pop up right now when it comes to romance? Well, I think we've gotten to a point where romance has just exploded in at least visible popularity since 2020. Romance as a genre has always been popular, but it's really sort of taken over the conversation in the past five or six years. And I think because of that, things have gotten a little bit stagnant, right? Like we have romance to see, are we tired of fairies? What's different on that side of things on the contemporary romance side? Like what can we do that doesn't just feel like trying to recapture the Emily Henry magic? Right. And so I think when I talk to readers, when I look at readers online, there's this sense of like dissatisfaction or this desire for something new. I feel like we're in a moment again, like the moment we were in right before Fourth Wing sort of exploded onto the scene with very few precursors where at that moment, I could not have predicted that a like Dragon Academy romance novel would be the book that took over the world. But it did feel like we were due for something like that. And so I just have this feeling that like something none of us are expecting is going to be a huge hit in the next couple of years. So take everything I say about trends with a grain of salt, because I do think what is going to happen next is going to be unpredictable. But I think in general, readers are looking for something that feels really different. And the thing that I see crop up over and over again on book talk is people want yearning. And I feel like the word yearning has become a standing for a lot of things that people are missing in their romance novels. There's been such a swing towards high heat, high spice. People want to focus maybe again on like the Mr. Darcy hand flex of it all. And I think there's also the yearning can be an issue with point of view, right? Like a lot of romance novels are currently in first person. And when people are going back to say historical romances from the late 90s, early 2000s and rediscovering the yearning in those books and the big feelings, part of the difference is their dual third person POV. And so what does that POV shift change in the romance novels you're reading and the way you're feeling about them? So wait, are you saying you think a third person POV is yearnier? I mean, I think it can be. Interesting. I would have said because the first person you're in somebody's head, you feel closer to the yearning. But maybe I need to I'm not well versed in the late 90s, early 2000s romance. So maybe I have to check one out. I think sometimes when you have 100 percent access to someone's thoughts, it's too easy. Interesting. OK. So what when you talk about yearning, like what books in the current marketplace or that are forthcoming this year, do you think like best represent the yearning trend? That's a great question, because I'm not sure if I can point to any. I think what's interesting about this desire for yearning is that it's like a pervasive desire that I don't see people coalescing around like one book or even a set of books in particular. And this is why I feel like there is a reader desire that has not quite been met by what is currently out there. I'm not totally sure how to think about what's going to come out of that trend. But the other thing I think it ties into if you think about heated rivalry, there is a lot of yearning and heated rivalry and it is high spice, which is an interesting combination. But it's like it takes place over a span of years. There's so much angst. You're going through like an emotional crucible with these characters. And I think that that's something that readers are looking for. Yeah. Yeah. Well, talk to us on the flip side. So I was so fascinated by a newsletter that you wrote recently talking about what readers are saying that they're over, which doesn't necessarily totally map to book sales. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? Like what's out? I personally and other people I have talked to are tired of romances where the hero or heroine is a writer. I think we've had a ton of those in recent years. And I think people are ready for something new. What I am looking for is like people who are good at their jobs, but their jobs are not email jobs. I think we have a real lack of that right now. And people really want competence porn, at least that's what I want. And when I talk to people, that's something they're looking for, too. I think a book that's coming out this summer that might fit into that neatly is the Chelsea Courtauld Stormy Weather, which is about rival meteorologists and like Storm Chasers. So it's sort of like Twisters, if it was a romance novel. And I think we'll see a lot of interesting trends and how those are playing with people when that book comes out. But I'm very excited to read that one. The other thing I think people are looking for a lot of and maybe they're not describing it this way is genre mashups. I think when like subgenres have started to feel stale for people, the way that writers can make them feel different is by mashing two of them together. And so I think we might start seeing like paranormal sports romance or we're seeing like small town with witches or things that are sort of like maximum trophy because you're putting two subgenres together. That's interesting. Is there anything out in the marketplace that represents that? Or you think this is like on the horizon? I think it's on the horizon. I think there are things bubbling. I think the interesting thing about the market right now and trends is that on the romance side, trends are coming from indie published books and fan fiction first, because those markets can move so much more quickly than traditional publishing. So like the things that are sort of bubbling will come out first in indie books. And those will blow up and then those will get picked up by traditional publishers and they will get to them more slowly. I do think it's harder for traditional publishers to be the ones breaking out trends in romance right now because they can't compete with the speed of indie publishing. Well, that's another thing that I wanted to talk to you about is that I feel like I see so many people talking about traditional publishers being risk averse and picking up successful self published books and then repackaging them. Or fan fiction. So, you know, things like Alchemized from last year, which was such a huge sensation was originally fan fiction. I mean, I have many I can share. They just announced today the adaptation of All the Young Dudes, which is now called Wolf Boy, was picked up by Del Ray, the same publisher as Alchemized. But this isn't necessarily new. Like if I think back to like the Spanish love deception by Elena Armis, like Magnolia Parks, like this has been happening for a really long time. Is it picking up or are readers just more wise to this now? That's a really interesting question. I think it's both. I think that they are doing this more often as there's been a proven track record of success. I mean, it goes back even farther than that if you think about 50 Shades of Gray, really. Oh, yeah. Like, and, you know, this is sort of the second wave of indie books getting picked up by traditional publishers. There was a big wave of it in like 2012, 2013. But I do think we also just have a savvier online audience who is now constantly paying attention to what their favorite authors are doing. Indie authors have these established fan bases. Now they're going to want to buy the indie edition if they know it's going away and then buy the traditional version of a book. There's just like a much more intense fan culture that I do think is focused on like every little thing that is happening. And so it is much more visible when these transitions are happening. Yeah, I feel like I'm seeing so much that on threads. Like, I feel like, you know, maybe 2020, 2021 was so much about book talk. And now, you know, well, I'm curious to hear what you think about book talks level of impact and relevance right now. But I do feel like now book threads, especially from the publishing business side, you know, has kind of like picked up and is a hotspot. Yeah, I mean, I deleted threads off my phone because the I deleted TikTok off my phone just was not for me. I do think TikTok is interesting right now because I think the algorithm is kind of broken. I think it is not as good as it was even six months ago. And like mine is very dialed to only serve me book content because like my TikTok is my job, right? And like if it serves me anything that is not book content, I immediately swipe away. I'm always doing searches to like keep my algorithm dialed to the kinds of content I want to see. And yesterday I got served like five or six, not related to anything I'm interested in books or otherwise, TikToks. And I was like, this disturbs me. So I do think that the relevance, if they can no longer like serve people the content they're interested in and be a platform for discovering new books to read people are going to have to go to other platforms to find the new books that they're reading. Do you think readers are spending much time on book threads or do you think it's really like an industry gossip? It feels very author centric to me. But again, it's hard for me to tell because what my algorithm was giving me was like very industry specific and like writer focused conversations. But when I'm going to look for what readers are looking to read next or like what's going viral on that side of things, threads is not typically where I'm finding it. Off of book talk, it's more like Reddit, I think. That's interesting. I have not explored the book Reddit universe. There is a huge romance reader community on Reddit. It's fascinating. It's incredible. And they're reading like slightly different books, I would say, than book talk. So there's an interesting sub community over there of things that are trending, what they're looking for, what is interesting for them to read. How would you classify the book talk reader versus the book Reddit reader? That's a really interesting question. I think book talk is more mainstream. Reddit is people who are looking for something that feels more different, especially on the Romantic side, I think that they're really seeking out maybe like Romantic with a higher percentage of fantasy does pretty well on Reddit, but also just again, things that feel different. Like some Romanticies with older heroines have really blown up on Reddit. Yeah, I was going to ask you if there's an example of a book that you think that's a Reddit book versus a book talk book. There's a Romanticie called Priestess that I think has gotten picked up by a traditional publisher and is coming out. Traditionally published. That is one of the ones I found on Reddit before anywhere else. I also, I represent an author named Kira Percy who writes indie published billionaire romance that are actually like very zany, very funny rom-coms. And her books were voted like the number one and three favorite books of Reddit in 2024 and I saw them a lot on Twitter. I have not seen them as much on book talk. Interesting. Well, what about going to the publishing side of things? So now in your role as an agent, you're earlier in the pipeline. So you're actually talking to editors about what they're looking for and, you know, kind of scouting the books that might inform publishing trends in 2027 and beyond. So when you are having these conversations or when you're looking for authors to represent, like outside of yearning and interesting jobs, like what are you hearing from editors about what they're looking for? Yeah. So on the Romanticie side, both with readers and with editors, there's this real desire for standalone romantic because I think there's serious fatigue. Readers don't want to sign their lives away for the next five years waiting for a series to finish when they've already committed to like maybe, you know, 10, 15, 20 series coming out. I feel this like I'm like, I can't, my dance card is full. I'm already in the midst of too many. Like I cannot commit to anymore. Yeah. And so I think readers and editors are really in lockstep on this one where like the Romanticie market has gotten more competitive and harder over the past few years because there's just been such a flood of it. And I think the standalone thing is really going to play a big part. In the next couple of years, we've also seen it like duologies have gotten more popular as we've seen the genre grow. This just got announced today. So I can tell you about it. I just sold a standalone Romanticie that started indeed. That's been a viral sensation since the end of the year called The Poison Daughter and it's coming out in hardcover now in August with Sloburn and Zando. But I think that book, it's like incredibly long, but you know exactly how long you're committing to this story for. And then it's done. And I think that's been a big reason why it's been so appealing. I love the sound of this trend because I feel like the best time to read a series is when it's already out because otherwise I forget too much in between. I'm reading too much. And then, you know, I go back to a book and I'm like, who are you? What's this world? Like I would rather just do it all in one, even if it's very long. And I don't want to have to go watch one of those like YouTube recap videos before I read the second book in a series. I don't have an hour to watch someone recap what happened in the book even. I've been suggesting to people that we need like a previously on. Okay. Where like the first three pages of the second book in a series or something is a summary of what happened before because I would rather hear about it from the author than some random influencer on book talk or YouTube. I second that. But I just think that like there's a lot of problems with the series model right now because of that. It's also for people like me who don't really consider themselves fantasy readers, but are open to reading fantasy. I'm open to reading a standalone. But to me, like I'm part of the reason why I never continue with fourth wing or or any of the things is because it's just like I'm not that committed. I'm committed enough to really dive in and enjoy it for one book, but not beyond that. So I like the idea of a standalone long romance fantasy book like that I can that I can get on board with for sure. I definitely think we're going to see more of those. What about on the contemporary side? There's been this conversation of like contemporary romance is dead or dying or that it's so hard to break into. What are editors excited about on the contemporary romance side? It feels to me like maybe there's an appetite for something that's slightly more literary, but I don't know if this is just my own tastes that I'm extrapolating against in calling a trend. I think it's just anything that feels different, honestly. I think we've seen this big wave of speculative contemporary romance and that's been sort of an attempt to make things feel different. I just finished one and only by Maureen Gu, which I absolutely loved. I thought that was like the perfect amount of speculative, just like a little bit. I also loved that she was a 40 year old protagonist. That felt really different. She had her shit together. And I really loved the way that Maureen Gu integrated fashion and food and interiors in a way that felt like very grown up. It felt like a different reading experience. It was really lush. Yeah. Yeah. And I've been telling people this lately. Like I love a book with an older heroine and I like it when she is still extremely sexy and cool. My pet peeve is when you're reading a romance with an older heroine and it's all like my joints her. It's hard being 40 or whatever. That's not fun to me. That's not interesting. I only wear sad pants and like, whoa, is me here by 10 cats. Yes. My friend Lila Sales has a book coming out from 831 Stories in the Fall. That is a rock star romance about a 40 year old rock star. And it was so refreshing to read about a like sexy older adult woman who is still incredibly cool. Oh, that sounds very fun. It's fabulous. So if you had to bet big on two books that have either recently come out or are coming out in 2026, what would your bets be? I mean, everyone who has talked to me recently knows, including you, that I'm obsessed with games, which is coming out in June. It was dark Lena fan fiction. It has been picked up by Avon to be, you know, turned into a standalone contemporary romance. The comms are normal people and 50 Shades of Grey, both of which I think are incredibly earned. And it's a really fascinating mashup of trends and style that truly could not have been written by anyone else and stands on its own. There are on page debates about Marxism and economic policy. The sex is incredibly sexy. I just found it to be very refreshing and kind of like when and only like the city of New York is a character, the setting details are really glamorous and escapist in that way. Sort of like we've had this trend of what I would call like beach house romance from Carly Fortune and people like that where the setting is a character. And I think moving those kind of books into more urban settings is a really interesting twist on that previous trend that feels a little bit different. I will be so curious to see how this book does. I really enjoyed it. However, I did have the feeling that I have when I watch industry where I do not actually know what anyone is talking about. And if I agree or disagree with them, like the economic theory in this was so dense that, and you know, they were talking about specific historical economic schools of thought or thinkers. And I was like, I'm just going to trust you on this. Like not really sure what's happening. This is kind of what I'm talking about, about people being good at their jobs. Yeah. Like I don't need to know if this is like right or not necessarily, but I believed that they were smart and good at their jobs. Absolutely. I was convinced. Okay. What would you say for your second? I'm not sure I have a second specific book, but the other trend that I just feel is coming and that we've seen a lot of deals come through for these books that are just starting to come out is vampires. I think vampires is going to be back in a big way. And I don't know whose vampire book it's going to be. But they're all over the place. I did just download an advanced copy of Die for Me, which comes out this summer. And I downloaded it not realizing that it was a vampire book. So I feel like, yeah, I definitely am seeing the surge of vampires. There's like the My Italian Vampire, which is Betty Corleo's book that she wrote under a pen name. Like, am I right on that one? Elena Armises' next book is a vampire book. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Interesting. No. Okay. Vampires are back. It all comes back around, doesn't it? Olivia, we were just talking about Olivia has a weird mark on her neck. A weird burn. And I was like, you should tell people it's a vampire bite. Well, on trend. I do. Can you tell people again where to find you and your newsletter on the internet? And also if you are open to queries as an agent. So you can find me at romancingthephone.substack.com and I am not open to queries. So she'll find you. I'll find you. Yeah. But definitely sign up for her newsletter. I think it's one of the best outlets for discussions on romance. So if you enjoyed this conversation, you're going to really enjoy Alyssa's newsletter. Let's take one last ad break. This episode is sponsored by Wayfair. With my recent move, I have been spending a ton of time on Wayfair recently. And in fact, I just got a set of caned back dining chairs delivered yesterday. And I could not believe how fast they came with their free shipping. I ordered them on a Monday. They arrived on Wednesday. And if you're also shopping for things for your home, you should know that it is almost wayday at Wayfair. From April 25th to 27th, you can get the best deals in home. I'm talking up to 80% off with free shipping on everything. We are totally redoing our powder room downstairs and we're moving it. And it's a whole thing. And Jake and I recently sat down and we went on Wayfair and we looked for the floor tile for this space because I had a very specific vision. I wanted a beautiful marble tile that looked like it had been there 100 years ago. And in 100 years, it would look good as well. And I found the perfect thing that was also incredibly affordable. And I used Wayfair's incredible filters to do that. Wayfair's filters make it easy to find exactly what fits your style and needs from furniture and decor to home improvement and outdoor essentials. And it's all on sale during Wayday. Wayday is the sale to shop for the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80% off with fast and free shipping on everything. Head to Wayfair.com April 25th to 27th to shop Wayday. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Into some obsessions, Olivia. I have an obsession that I feel like you will care about a lot. So I found a new garlic gadget. I feel like every few years I find a new one. And I'm obsessed with it for a little bit, but I think this one has staying power. So a cooking skill that I've never mastered is doing the really finely sliced garlic. And I was reading some recipe that called for sliced garlic and the person added in that they use this little tool. So I got it on Amazon. It's called the Lefheit, L-E-I-F-H-E-I-T, some German engineering there. Comfortline Gore-Bayslicer. And it looks like a little pepper mill almost. And you just, you put heads of garlic, peeled heads of garlic in, and you just twist it like a pepper mill. And it made the most even easy slices of garlic. It was like magic. But the best part, because I feel like the thing with some of these garlic tools, like I have the press, is that they, they're like really hard to clean. And this one was very easy to clean. Good to know. I was just actually the other day making a recipe that called for thinly sliced garlic. And I almost cut my finger off. I know my knife skills aren't, my knife skills aren't good enough to actually do it with a knife. Well, you know how I feel about garlic smells. So, well, I appreciate that. I'm giving this an A plus. It's like $27. So it's not the cheapest, but I don't know. I think that's not terrible for a kitchen gadget that I can use for theoretically decades to come. Definitely. What are you obsessed with? I'm obsessed with this notes app system I have been using. Tell me everything. You know I care about a notes app system. I've been using it for four months now. So I feel like it's like sticking around. It's not very complicated, but essentially I have a note that I pinned to the top of my notes, where I have to-do lists broken up by month. So usually like three months out. So right now I have an April to-do list. I have a May to-do list. Maybe the beginning of a June. What's an example of something that's on your June to-do list already? Mostly house stuff. Or like planning stuff for coming months or book stuff or whatever. So for the April to-do list, at some point I need to call a tree guy to take down a tree. That kind of stuff. And then I'll move it to May if I need to or whatever. So I have those lists and then every week I have a weekly to-do list, where it's the bubbles that you can check off very satisfyingly. And I just put everything I need to do for that week from like workouts I want to do to posh mark sales I need to send to just reminders about what I'm making for dinner. Everything basically. It all goes into the list. And as I think of things throughout the week, I add it to the list. And obviously it's on my computer, it's on my phone. And so whenever I have a free moment, I go in and I check things off and I review it. And it's been working really well for me. I mean, it's basically just a to-do list on my phone. I'm making it sound really a lot more systematic than it is, I guess. But it's been working. I'm so happy for you. Yeah, I highly suggest. And it's free. So great. Take me over to the reading front, because it looks like from our outline, you've done a lot of reading since we last talked. I have been reading a lot. So I finished The Fountain by Casey Shevca, who is another upstate author. She lives on the other side of the river from me in The Catskills. And this book is set in The Catskills. And I think Emma Straub blurbed it and described it as tuck of her lasting for adults, which immediately sold. If I haven't heard of a book meant for you, it's that. Yes, it very much was that. And I loved all of the upstate stuff so much. And essentially it's about a woman who can't die. And she goes back to her family home from hundreds of years ago to try to undo the spell. And it's kind of like a genre mashup. It's like a little literary, a little mystery and very atmospheric and cat skillsy. And I actually saw someone post in the Facebook group about this book and how much they absolutely loved it. So I definitely suggest checking it out if you're in the mood for like an atmospheric character forward suspense novel, a certain The Catskills. What else do you have for us? Next I have In Her Defense by Philippa Mallica, which I picked up, I think the same day that Grace told me that I should read this book. This is about, gosh, it's hard to describe this without giving stuff away. I do think it is worth going in blind. But it's this story of this woman who has a famous mother and a questionable therapist who has told her to cut off contact with her mother. And it is a lot about life coaches and wellness experts, all things I'm interested in, and when they're good, when they're not. And it's all set against a trial. So it moves very fast. The writing is great. A lot of it is set in Rome, which was wonderful. I loved this book. I read it very fast. It was great. So Grace was right. She's got your number. Yes, yes. It's a surprising read. And next, another surprising read. I read this book called Whale Fall by Elizabeth O'Connor. And I went into a bookstore in Charleston. I wanted to get a paperback because I didn't want anything too bulky. I saw this book. I've seen it around. I didn't really know much about it. I read the back and it was about this woman who lives on a remote Welsh island in the, I believe the early 1900s. And I was like, okay, done. Very Olivia Conan. Yeah, I was like, done, done, done, done. And then I started reading it and I thought, oh, I think this is going to be a little too plotless for me or a little too lyrical. The formatting is really different. And then I kept reading and I just fell completely in love with this book. And it's all about this, as I said, this woman growing up in this remote island, very, very cut off from the world, doesn't know what's going on. They don't get papers for weeks and weeks after the fact. And these two researchers land on the island and sort of expose her to more of the world. It's a really understated, very subtle novel, but it's just so beautiful. The descriptions of nature are so great. I loved this book. Like I loved it so much. I posted about it and someone replied and they said, really? I posted that I loved it and they said, really? I guess because they did. So not for everyone. This is not for everyone. No, it's, I don't know. It's so accessible and easy to read, but it's also literary because of the structure and because of how lyrical it is. But I just loved it. I loved everything about it so much. Yeah, one of my favorites of the year, surprisingly, I think, so far. Finally, I read The Sirens by Amelia Hart because after Whalefall, I was like more books about oceans. This is about two sisters living in Australia. So it's set against this historical fiction past timeline of a ship of female prisoners sent from England and Ireland to Australia, a penal colony. And the two timelines kind of interweave in this very magical, fantastical way that doesn't feel like fantasy, but there is something, I guess you would call it speculative. I had never read this author before. She also wrote Wayward, which was super popular. But yeah, I really liked the descriptions of the ocean. There's a mermaid aspect you can imagine. And yeah, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I love Australia as a setting a lot. So it was a fun one. And also the covers gorgeous. Love. What a hot streak you're on. For now. I have more coming at you next week. Wow. Yes. What have you read? I only read two books. So I read once and again by Rebecca Searle, which is her newest book that just came out last month. And as with all of her books, there is a little bit of magical realism, but it's set in the real world. And so in this one, the premise is that all of the women in this family are born with a silver ticket that allows them to have one do over to redo a choice in their life or rewind time in some way. And the main character of the book is struggling with infertility. Definitely a pretty heavy trigger warning there. And her husband is out of town for work for the summer and she moves back in with her parents and ends up reconnecting with her childhood first love. So it's like a love triangle between a woman, her husband and her first love. And as with all of Rebecca Searle's books, it's very much thematically to do with fate versus free will. I enjoyed this one. I really enjoyed the setting. It's set in Malibu at a beach house. And I really enjoyed that aspect of it. And I really enjoyed the thematic exploration. Like I think she really hit hard on like, would you, should you take a do over and kind of the ramifications of that. I think my favorite of hers is still in five years, but I did really enjoy this one. Great. And then in a single Saturday, I read a book that's also set on water that maybe is not quite as historical or precarious as some of your recent reading. But I read American Fantasy by Emma Straub, which comes out, I think this week. And this is about a boy band nostalgia cruise. And so it's told from three points of view. It's told from the event producer who's making it all happen, one of the members of the boy band, and then this woman who's ended up on the cruise by herself, somewhat by accident. And I just love anything that it's like a really rich examination of a type of niche subculture. And oh, this delivered for me so hard in terms of getting into the idiosyncrasies of being on a boy band cruise. And I had a lot of fun with this. I think this would be a great vacation read. It's like on the lighter side, it's kind of hard to classify. Like there's a little bit of a romance plot, but it's not a romance. There's a little bit of an unlikely friendship plot, but it's not a friendship story. Like more than anything, I think it's a middle age novel. Okay. This is on my Kindle. And it's definitely more fun than a lot of water set books you've read. But if you're if you're looking for a water set, does the cruise capsize? Because that's really all I'm curious about. No, the cruise safely. There are no disasters. All of the disasters are event planning and interpersonal. There are no, I mean, it sounds good. I love, I think cruises are interesting environments for so many reasons. So I definitely am looking forward to this one whenever I get to it. Well, if none of those wrecks struck your fancy, we also have our April book club pick, which is Good People by Pat Minas Abit, which we'll be discussing on April 29th. I have not had a chance to read this one yet, but I'm very excited to. Olivia pitched it as a mystery surrounding a tragedy that befalls an Afghan American family told from many, many different points of view. I'm assured it's very gulpable that there are very short chapters that kind of make the pages turn themselves. I'm excited. Anything to add to that pitch? No, I'm I'm excited to. I think more people need to be reading this book, so I can't wait. Well, I'm going to be one of them. Good. Well, if you want to talk to us about any of this, you can join us in the Facebook group, which is under Bad on Paper podcast. We're on Instagram at Bad on Paper podcast. We have a BFF group under Bad on Paper podcast. I'm on Instagram and sub stack and the general internet under Olivia Mentor. I'm on Instagram at Becca M Freeman. My newsletter is at beccafreeman.substack.com. And I have a new novel coming this October called Back Where We Started. And I would love it if you considered pre-ordering it. We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.