Hi everyone, welcome. We have a special episode today. Today's episode is called How Kids with ADHD Build the Internal Skills Needed for Independence. Welcome to the ADHD Parenting Podcast with Mike McLeod of Grow Now ADHD and Ryan Wetzelblatt of ADHD Dude. Learn about parenting kids with ADHD from a licensed clinical social worker and speech language pathologist who specializes in ADHD. No fluffy parenting advice, only practical information that will equip you to help your child with ADHD effectively. And this is kind of a special episode because internal skills is really a term that I think Mike came up with and I think he uses in a way that's really understandable and relatable for parents. But there's another reason I wanted to do this episode in particular because I wanted to talk about Mike's new book and new workbook that just came out and have been the number one bestseller on Amazon in this category for what a bunch of weeks now? Yeah, yeah. Since the official launch was on January 13th, 2026, the pre-sale records and pre-order records were, I don't know, not records, but numbers were exceeded expectations and everything afterwards has been phenomenal. It's an incredibly scary thing writing a book and putting yourself out there and getting all these emails from the publishers about numbers and reviews and everything. But so far everything has exceeded expectations and Ryan was kind of enough to join our book launch party last week that we had on Zoom where over 200 people came and met some of the experts and asked questions and discussed the book. So everything so far has just has been amazing. So one of the things I wanted to explain to everybody, I didn't want to do this episode just to kind of say, well, let's promote Mike's book. I wanted to do it because I genuinely feel that this book is going to become the gold standard when talking about executive functioning. And Mike, I want to just share the story with everybody real quick before we get into it. When I started learning about executive functioning, I guess it was 10 years ago now, I didn't want to buy, well, first of all, there's barely any books on Amazon to buy at that time. There was maybe five, I mean, definitely no more than 10 at the time. So I said, okay, if this is something I need to learn everything about, I'm going to have to get some books. I actually had to have books sent to me from the Penn State Library because there were so few books at the time about executive functioning and nobody had them except for Penn State. So I've obviously I was living in Pennsylvania at the time. So I had, you know, maybe these 10 books, 12 books sent to me, most of them from Penn State. And I went through every single one. And there was two things that came up. I either said this is academic and theoretical, and this has no practical application for parents. Or I said this is very dry. And basically just tells parents the only actionable strategies were make list, hang up checklist, use a timer. And that was it. And I was like, you know, what am I supposed to do with this? And it just so happened. Luckily, that's when I first, you know, went to one of Sarah Ward's trainings and that kind of changed everything for me. But you know, moving forward, since since that time, there's been a lot of books that came out. And I've looked at a lot of them. And I want to tell everyone, you know, not not much has changed really. A lot of it is is still the kind of, you know, executive functioning is academic organizational skills, use timers kind of thing. So I didn't really ask Mike many questions about this before it came out. But I was really blown away when I got the book. So Mike, first thing I want to ask you in chapter one, you call this a playbook instead of a parenting guide. What do you want parents to understand about how the playbook and the workbook are meant to work together? And why don't you also hold them up so everyone can see as you're explaining this? Sure. So the first book is the executive functioning playbook. This is the actual book that outlines all that most up to date research from Dr. Russell Barclay, Sarah Ward, Dr. George McCloskey, and as a true step by step practical parenting playbook. And then we have the playbook and action workbook that really has the worksheets for parents, professionals, teachers to help them bring executive functions into their home, into their classroom, into their practice in a very authoritative evidence based way. And Mike, I want to clarify for everyone, because a lot of the executive function books I've seen, they are basically workbooks for kids. And if I was a kid, I would never sit down and do them. So why don't you clarify what the workbook or the playbook and action is for in terms of do parents use it alone? Do they use it with kids? How does it work? Yeah. So each chapter is different. The majority of the book is meant for parents, teachers and professionals. So there's sections in there for playbook parenting, to carry over what they learned in the first book, there's sections in there specifically for academic executive functions for teachers to use, and for professionals as well. The vast majority of it is for the parents and the adults to use themselves to create the structure in the home that is lacking to really, as Ryan always says, in his parenting courses, is to step into your parental authority. These are worksheets and practical guides, a true playbook, to help you step into your parental authority and create the structure your child craves in the home with limits, boundaries, hierarchies, those sorts of things. A lot of the worksheets really are about creating structure and limits in the home, where things aren't a discussion anymore. They're not a negotiation, they're not an argument. This is now written down, basically like a guide of how this family is going to operate, in terms of what's available to you, what's expected of you, what are the expectations, what is mom's role, dad's role, child's role, teen's role, where this is not a discussion anymore, this is written out, described, and this is the guide for our family moving forward, and for teachers, the guide for their classroom as well. So Mike, one of the things I think is important for people to understand is that these workbooks that I was referring to before, that are basically worksheets for kids or for students, they don't teach parents how to do this in a way where we're saying, this is what we're doing now. So a lot of them are like, sit down and do this organizational worksheet with your child. Well, how many kids with ADHD are going to be receptive to doing that? And what is missing from, I think, pretty much every single executive function book out there, is the idea that you have to step into your parental authority first. This is not just about building skills. This is about you saying to your child, you're going to develop these skills, you're going to learn how to be more independent. I'm going to help you with this. And this is what we're doing. This is not something where do you feel like doing this today. And I think that's the big difference that people need to understand that you're going to get that in the book. You're going to learn how to step into your parental authority if that is not natural to you or if it feels uncomfortable to you. So that being said, Mike, I want you to explain a little bit about the internal skills model and talk about why you describe that as internal skills rather than behavior skills. And why does that distinction matter for how parents support their child? Exactly. So this is broken down in great detail in both of the books. Really in the past, both ADHD and executive functions were looked at as this external behavioral based disorder and set of skills. With ADHD, it was all about hyperactive kids who can't sit still, they advance in their pants, they run it, they run around in attentiveness, kids who just daydream all the time. Everything was external and based on what we can see. And the same with executive functions. Still to this day, if you mention executive, executive functioning to most people, they're going to say time management organization, messy backpacks, messy folders, messy bedrooms, messy lockers, things like that. Obviously, things like time management and organization are not going to be that major of a predictor of success for human beings, but executive functions are. This is truly what separates human beings from all other living species is our prefrontal cortex and our executive functioning system. So no more focus on hyperactivity, inattentiveness, time management organization, it's the internal skills that are lacking that create those external symptoms. So the playbook breaks this down chapter by chapter. The first is self awareness and the ability to understand that the things that I do affect the world around me, the things I say, the choices I make affect others and affect myself. It's the first executive skill to develop when they're little babies and becomes one of the most delayed right around middle school. And it really negatively impacts a lot of kids with ADHD, socially, which we talk about many episodes here. The next is self regulation of emotions, language, body, behavior, which is pretty much what it's all about. Dr. Russell Barclay in many, many times calls ADHD self regulation deficit disorder, where it's not hyperactivity, it's the inability to regulate your body. It's not inattentiveness, it's the inability to regulate your thoughts. And if you're a parent to a child with ADHD, self regulation is what it's all about, whether you're the true regulation of emotions and body and behavior. Then we have self motivation towards non preferred, non instantly gratifying, non screen based tasks, which is huge. Can they, like sure they can go and play Minecraft for 10 hours straight, but can they brush their teeth, can they take a shower, can they go outside, can they play with friends face to face, the things that are actually important to their growth and development. And then finally, the fourth pillar is self evaluation, which is the ability to learn from past experiences and apply to the present and not repeat the same mistakes over and over. Like I describe in the playbook, ADHD parenting is like Groundhog's Day. It's the same thing every single day, same fight, same battle. Most kids are going to have bad morning routines in September, but if you're at ADHD parent, you're having rough morning routines in May, June, and so forth. So it's all about the ability to learn from the past, apply it to the present and be able to use past experiences to gain your competence and confidence. Which is a huge part of this really. Yeah. Absolutely. I want to talk about some of the things in particular chapters that resonated with me. So chapter eight, you explained that for kids with ADHD, almost everything becomes non preferred, as we know. How should that change what parents expect from their child during the day? Should they just lower all expectations because things are non preferred? Absolutely not. And this is what exactly what this podcast is all about. And a lot of the feedback Ryan and I have gotten since we started this podcast is parents realizing, Hey, it's time for me to raise the bar, because I've been getting a lot of fluffy, feel good information on social media. Everyone constantly talking about, Oh, these kids are three to five, five years behind. So I have to lower the bar. Like, no, we have to raise the bar in so many different ways. Because they have executive functions. Dr. Russell Barkley says it all the time. If you want to see an ADHD person fail, put them in an environment with no consequences, no struggle, no challenge. And in so many, so many ways we've done that. So many schools now, kids can turn things in late without any points off. There's no real consequences. So many ADHD kids out there can say unspeakable things to their parents. And five minutes later, they're playing a game or doom scrolling on social media. And what does that teach the brain? It teaches the brain that those things work. I can say those things and get away with it, and then go retreat to myself. So we have talked at length about the ADHD comfort zone, how it is very small, and it's very narrow. And that comfort zone most likely involves their phone, YouTube, Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft, Snapchat, you know, all of those different things, which as we know, there's tons of science behind it, are all addicting drugs and very dangerous for their brains. So we need to figure out what their comfort zone is. Maybe it's arguing, maybe it's negotiating, maybe it's something else that's unhealthy or not helping, figure out what they run to during periods of unstructure and boredom, and figure out how do we raise the bar, how do we identify what we are doing for them, that they should be doing themselves, and allow them to experience the struggle, the consequences, life experiences, parents need to fade back so kids can step up. So like one of the things that I really liked also is about chapter four and five, where you talk about self awareness. And you know, this is for me, this is one of the aspects of executive functioning that most people don't know about and goes very unnoticed. So why don't you explain a little bit, I think first it would be helpful to kind of explain, you know, how this impacts every facet, you know, of life really. And then let's talk about, you know, how, well, you show how self awareness is built. What does it look like when a child with ADHD starts to develop that skill? Sure. So this is the first executive skill to develop when they're little tiny babies, and they start to recognize, Hey, wait a second, when I cry, what happens? Mom and dad come and help me out, I get some milk, I get hug, I get, I get held, I get sung to. And when I smile in mom and dad's face, they smile back. And little kids start to realize, Hey, wait a second, I can do things that affect the world around me. So they start to recognize I can do things that has power, I have power and I can impact others. And I can also impact myself. If I punch or hit someone, it gives them pain, it makes them sad, it then negatively impacts me and makes me feel sad. And I have to learn from it, maybe have a consequence or maybe have a negative emotion I have to sit with that I have to remember. So I don't do it again. So it's the first skill to develop. But over time, becomes one of the most delayed. And this is where social executive functioning comes into play. So if it's very hard for you to recognize the impact you have on others, the impact you have on yourself, it's going to be even more difficult for you to use perspective taking skills, which is basically a higher level, a higher degree of self awareness. Do you understand the thoughts and feelings you're giving other people. So this is this happens to be in middle school, where it's no longer all of that kumbaya, we're all friends, we're all family sort of thing. In middle school, that's where kids start to develop reputations, there starts to be groups different, you know, kids with similar interest and things like that. And if you're lacking self awareness, it's going to be very hard for you to really truly make friends, keep friends, find your group, find your people, find your tribe, find your find your people overall. And that's so important for kids to have relationships outside of just me and the teacher and me and my parents or me and my siblings, you know, they have to have a third place and other people. So in so many ways, we've replaced social relationships with, oh, he just plays online games with them. Oh, he just does this. And we all know those are not real social experiences. And we've all been duped by big tech who sell it as social, but it's not social at all. So so many ADHD parents who are tired and burnt out, and they see their child struggling socially, they then use these cognitive distortions and just say, oh, it's okay, he's talking to them while he games, it's okay, he has gaming friends. And they rationalize it in their head of that this is just what kids do now. This is how they make friends now. And that causes them to put real face to face social interactions on the back burner, which really negatively impacts quality of life down the road. And it all stems from this lack of self awareness. Well, Mike, let me let me say the other parts that you don't have to say this, you know, parents are also being told a message on social media that, you know, you know, this is the way kids with ADHD connect, you know, and your kid doesn't need in person relationships, you know, they develop problem solving skills and executive functioning and friendships through gaming. No, there is nothing that will ever replace real life social interactions when we're talking about building these social executive function skills, such as self awareness, which is really the foundation of this all. So my message to parents about this is, please don't be duped by by these accounts selling you, you know, that that gaming is is just the way kids, you know, socially interact now. It's not is it for some? Yes, that doesn't mean it's good. Right. Just because something is cotton doesn't mean it's good smoking was common one time. That doesn't mean it was good. Okay. So just please keep that in mind. And screens and screens are the cigarettes of today in so many ways that you know, there is no doubt whatsoever that screens are the foundation to this current youth mental health crisis. And nobody is the is a bigger victim of, you know, screens than our neurodivergent youth are ADHD are ADHD youth. They're the ones that struggle socially, and they get more and more sucked into the virtual world, further delaying the executive functioning skills that were lacking in the first place and social executive functioning skills. Yeah, 100%. All right. So let's talk about chapter nine motivation, because like this is one of the things when when I read, you know, over this, I was thinking, so this is one of those topics where I hear a lot of, you know, like, partner with your child to, you know, to motivate them. And that sounds great in theory. But, you know, motivation is an emotion of the future. In order to be motivated for something, we have to be able to visualize what the end result will feel like, right? So just partnering with with your child, you know, and working with them, that doesn't mean that increases motivation. Often what that does is create, you know, creates or, you know, further enables over dependency. So why don't you talk about, you know, how self motivation is built? What do parents usually get wrong when trying to motivate their child? And, you know, what is the action will take away from this chapter? Exactly. And this is this is another huge piece of ADHD parenting burnout is parents get stuck in this mindset that nothing gets done unless I step in. So you have a child who's struggling with executive functioning skills. And then the parent ends up getting so frustrated, so burnt out, they end up over prompting and just doing things for their child, which further increases prompt dependence down the road. And they get more and more delayed. And self motivation doesn't develop. It is so incredibly important for kids, like we talked about earlier, to be out of their comfort zone and experience struggle and experience tasks themselves. You know, the foundational skill Ryan was alluding to earlier is the non verbal, non verbal working memory visual imagery system of the brain, which is the foundation to all executive functions. And no one describes it better than Ryan, Dr. Barkley, Sarah Ward, of exactly what visual imagery is and how incredibly important it is. And so few people understand the connection between mental movies, brainpower, and executive functions. It takes us all the way back to that famous personal development book of the seven habits of highly effective people by Dr. Stephen Covey. Number one was start with the end in mind, visualize the end result and work towards that result. And the only time a child is going to be able to stop, think, visualize process is if you the parent get out of their way. They're not going to be able to stop, think and visualize with you standing there watching over them doing their homework, making sure they're doing it. You know, so many ADHD parents unintentionally become very permissive, very helicopter parents. And they do that because they're unintentionally creating this home of anxiety and prompt dependence. So if your child needs to learn, you know, Ryan describes it all the time is don't use the phrase stop and think with your child, because that's what so many ADHD parents want to do is they want to grab their kids and be like, why can't you just stop and think? But it's not stop and think, it's stop, visualize, talk to yourself and then do. And they can't do that unless they experience life without you standing over them. All right. So Mike, to finish up, I saved the, for me, my favorite one for last, which is about, you know, chapters 10 and 11, where you talk about self evaluation, which is really kind of tied to this, right? So when you talk about self evaluation as a skill that allows kids to change what they do, you know, what does that look like in everyday life for a child with ADHD? And how can parents really help build this? Because this really sounds, you know, more internal than anything. Exactly. And this takes us right back to that skill of visual imagery. And, you know, most people understand that ADHD is time blindness and executive dysfunction is time blindness. But we have to understand just how debilitating that is. So there's two facets to time blindness. There's nonverbal working memory foresight, which we just talked about. Motivation is an emotion of the future. So you have to be able to visualize the future and work towards it. But self evaluation is really nonverbal working memory, hindsight, looking back on the past, visualizing the past, gaining competence and confidence from past experiences. Like, so having a present struggle of having to put your screens away and study, or having to go to a birthday party, or having to make weekend plans or apply to a job, or do some chores, whatever it is. If you visualize a time you've done that in the past, or something similar in the past, and remember, I did it, I felt good about it, and then I moved on to my preferred tasks. I was able to not have to argue with my mom and dad for an hour. I felt good about myself. I felt independent. I felt confident. I felt self-worth. And we also remember negative experiences. This is what so many parents today have forgotten and eliminated from their parenting mind, is just how important negative experiences and negative emotions are to growth. You know, most of us who, you know, got our careers, got our jobs, got our degrees, got our relationships, and all these different things. All of those things came with struggle and hardships and negative emotions and rejection and failure and all of those things. You know, all the great famous athletes, like Michael Jordan getting cut from his college team, or Tom Brady being like one of the last draft picks, whatever it may be, we have to remember, all accomplishment comes from struggle. And we have eliminated those feelings. And so many parents now have gotten so involved. And I hate to bring everything back to screens, but one of the big things about screens is they keep kids in the house too much. Like you basically have like that annoying roommate who's like always there and always in the house. And because the kids always there, they're always under the parents microscope. So anytime there's a feeling of rejection or failure or a negative emotion, parents are being taught on social media to jump right in. Really what we need is we have to remember and we talk about this on many episodes. Kids are anti-fragile. Kids are resilient. We don't want to throw them in therapy and have them ruminate on negative experiences. We want them to remember those experiences so they then can add it to their toolkit for present struggle, for competence and confidence to persevere through these tasks. So to wrap this up, Mike, I just want to, you know, clarify for everyone. So the playbook is what explains the system. That's the foundation of this. The playbook in action, which is the bigger book, that is where you practice it and you get the actionable strategies which you're going to use and really is, you know, practical and is made. So this is not just about theory or about just, you know, understanding something. It's about how do you put it into practical action because that's what matters at the end of the day and that's how kids build skills at the end of the day. So you can find the executive function playbook and the executive function playbook in action on Amazon. And where else, Mike? So it is available everywhere. So it's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, Goodreads. So anywhere you buy books, if you do happen to buy it, it would mean a lot if you can leave an honest review. Go over to Amazon, Goodreads, Barnes & Nobles. I get emails every day from the publisher saying, make sure you get reviews. So please, if you have the time, hop on, leave an honest review. And, you know, DM me, email me. All my information is on the website. You can DM me on Instagram. It means so much to me. I actually wrote these books quite a long time ago. I put a lot of work into it, took a really long time. So now that they're actually out and available and people are reading it, I am unbelievably eager to hear feedback. So if you listen to this episode or read the book, I would love it if you were to DM me or send me an email. It would mean a lot to me to hear your honest thoughts. And I think, Mike, when anybody picks these up, they will see how much blood, sweat and tears were put into this. When I first saw it, I was like, oh my God. I could not imagine doing this. Like, just how much time it must have taken. Too much time. Too much time. Serious neglect from my family for a while. Where I basically had to, you know, it took an insanely long time to go through everything, do everything. And you're pretty much on your own. There's really no help. So you're on your own doing it. So it's a journey that I'll never forget. And there was quite a long time between finishing it and actual publication. So that period of time just allowed me to increase my anxiety of this is actually going to be released someday. And now that it's here, I can't wait to hear from all of you. All right, everyone. So please go check out the executive function playbook and the executive function playbook in action. They're meant to work together. I think you'll find it really not, I think I know you'll find it really practical and really helpful. And thanks so much for tuning in and we will speak to you soon. Thank you. at the adhd parenting podcast at gmail.com. The adhd parenting podcast and content posted by grown out adhd or adhd dude are presented solely for general information and educational purposes. Our goal is to provide valuable insights and knowledge, not to replace professional services. Mike and Ryan cannot provide clinical consultation or free advice through social media or other forms of communication. The information on this podcast is not a substitute for professional advice. If you or your child have any medical or mental health concerns, please consult your healthcare professionals.
