EP 43: Trusting God With Satch Selden

We're getting this thing kicked. Oh, we're going to get this thing fired the fuck off. Let's go. Episode number 42. Right. I don't know. Is it 43? Damn, we'll get it right. We're going to damn. I don't know. I don't know. We just keep showing up and doing this. The signatures. Yeah. And then add one for Chritchie. Oh, OK. Oh, yeah. You'll be signing that wall, too. I need to. What kind of what kind of? It's like a little. They're paint markers. So we got an assortment of colors for you two. I know. I'm just making sure. Oh, no. You're going up there. Sharpie. Am I? Oh, no. No. We better then. Oh, no. No. I told the public. I had my people call your people. No. No. No. Sharp. We got your writer. We got the honey chicken biscuit. Honey butter chicken. Yeah. Yeah. No bread. Yeah. Just honey butter. Yeah. Because it's so much healthier. Yeah. Water burger in 10 years. It takes the bread off. You've been on it. In and out. Listen. I think you know honey butter. Do I need to order you one? I can get one here. No, no, no. Please, please, please don't. I just got taquito. Listen, listen. I you guys are fine. I'm most likely. Well, I had a couple pieces of sausage before I came over here. You know, I just sliced the sausage from a barbecue restaurant. Oh, OK. Nice. Copyright in French from me. I'm going to say the name of the bar. Hey, hey. We're trying to keep you all in business. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A cease and desist. We're silver water over here. Yeah. Cease and dis. I'm sorry. I had to get a fucking mineral water today. I've been. I was just I felt like dog shit yesterday. Yeah. Well, I didn't even get work out yesterday. What's that? No way. I felt missing a workout. Yeah, he don't. He don't miss. That's not a thing that you miss too often. Well, we're back. We're back with episode 43. 43. I'm going to get hash marks back here so I can keep track. Another special guest, very special. This is going to be fun. Man, this one's going to be so much fun. I could already tell by the discussion that we were having beforehand, but I'll introduce ourselves first. I guess the one who's always going to go last. So Joey, the moron. Jay Klein, Mike Stuboy, recovered addict, meth, GHB, gambling, porn, whatever. Yeah. Well, damn. Can you beat that? Well, actually, I can. Satch Selden, fitness and mental health activist, addict, heroin, eating disorder recovery, sex and love addiction. Decent credit score. Looking for a wife. Looking for a husband. Let's go. OK, actually, we're not we're not doing that yet. But. We looking for somebody. Yeah, let's let's fucking go. Let's go. He tried my boy over here trying to get married, married, married. So, man, y'all hit his DM after this. It should be flashing at the bottom. It will be all satch's fault. All satch's fault. Yeah. Hell, yeah. Hell, yeah. That's nice. Well, we are very honored to have you here today. And man, thank you so much. And you have one that I don't think we've delved into in the eating disorder planet. So I think this one's going to be real interesting. I have a lot of questions about that for sure. I have the answers. Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know that there are the answers other than you working through that story. And all my dumb ass is going to have a lot of questions for you that hopefully one or two of them is one you haven't heard before. Okay, let's go. So I can't wait. I can't wait either. Before we get into that, we got our moment of silence that we've done. We I think we've neglected that. We did forget it last week. Yeah. Well, my bad. That's all good. I yeah, sometimes we get rolling and we just go. I might have started. Hey, yeah. But like we do for every episode, except for one. Let us bow our heads, close our eyes. Let us get present. Let us get centered. Let us think about the attic that's still out there suffering. The friends and fame members that are struggling with them and the attic that unfortunately couldn't be with us here today. Let's take a moment of silence. Thank you. All right. Well, doing it big. Satch. Got a couple of just preliminary questions, but D. O. C. My drug of choice was IV heroin. Okay. Yeah. That was the go to. Did it have a flow throughout there? So I mean it. I've tried pretty much everything. Yeah. You know, I did cocaine. I hated it. Yeah. Meth. Hated it unless there was heroin involved. Yeah. Right. You know, doing a little goofball. Yeah. There you go. I've never heard it like that. You know, checking my pulse and reading my eyelids. You know, that was crazy. And you know, of course, we didn't really. Yeah. Didn't really ever like alcohol, but when I drank it was to blackout. I was not drinking for, I wasn't like, oh, this Pino goes great with this petite filet. Like no, I was like, I was drinking to be under the table on 4th street in Austin, downtown Austin. Yeah. In the gay bars. Yeah. Six X rated punches in your boys on the floor. Yeah. That was very much. What it was like. Yeah. So it was never, but I didn't really like alcohol. I actually stopped drinking two years before I got sober, sober. Okay. I'm from everything. All right. And how long have you been sober? March 6th will be 10 years. Wow. Let's fuck it up. I did it. Yeah. You know, I'm grateful. I've been able to give my mom at this point, nine and a half years of good sleep. Yeah. You know, because I'm a woman through the ringer. And it's just a really solid place to be. My life has just kind of completely transformed in ways that I never thought possible. And so gratitude is an understatement. I bullshit a lot, but like I, I can never truly emote how grateful I am for the life that I have as a result of like putting down the drugs and alcohol. That's awesome. Well, I real quick, I want to, you brought it up. Mom, given her peaceful sleep, nobody's quite put it that way before on here, which is awesome. But how, I mean, how much more grateful is she? I mean, mom's always, mom's love is a mom's love, right? But with watching you go through that, does she, has she ever conveyed to you that she appreciates this version of you? Because she's always going to appreciate you and love you, right? But yeah, yeah, you know, my, my mom, here we go. My, my mom has shown up for me in more ways than I can verbalize. Yeah. So there's a big portion of my story that this is, this is interesting. So I'm adopted. My biological mother was a cocaine addict and could not raise me. My biological mother is also my biological is my, my adopted mother's biological sister. So I was adopted into my family. Got it. And that also happened with my other brother who was born literally nine months after I was. Whoa. And my same situation, foster care was adopted by my biological mother's brother. So we're all adopted into the family. Right. And then my biological mother got her stuff together and she got sober and gave birth to my youngest brother and raised him through college. So he got to have her as his mother, you know, super grateful for that. But my mom got to witness me go through my addiction and stuff. And she didn't understand it because she's a Harvard law grad Ivy League. You know, I'm over here kicking heroin on her couch and she's like, I've been where you've been. I've smoked a marijuana cigarette once and I'm like, if you don't get out of that right now, you know what I mean? Like I love you to death, but you don't get it. You don't understand. You don't understand. Yeah. And she shouldn't have to. You know what I mean? The fact that me and myself centered mindset at that time is trying to make excuses as to why you need to understand what my pain is like. That's not her responsibility. Yeah. You know, her responsibility was to provide for me until a certain age, legally 18, and then I'm on my own. But here I am. I didn't get sober until I was 25. I went to 27 treatment centers between the age of 18 and 25. Wow. And guess who paid for all that? Mom. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, she's let me know how grateful she is that I chose life is what she likes to call it. Yeah. Because there have been nights where she has been up. I mean, I remember I'd been out on a bender for four days. She'd been calling trying to get a hold of me and I was not answering. I showed up at three in the morning one night and I remember I like would always walk into the house and I tried to sneak up the stairs and just be prepared to do the same thing. Over again, and she was I opened the door and she was sitting in a rocking chair in our sunroom and she could see me as soon as I walked in. I was like, she's like, come here. She sat there and told me that her dad had died three days prior and then we had a flight in the morning to fly back east for his to get ready for the funeral and everything. And she's been sitting there worrying about me. Because I'm not answering her phone calls when my mom is trying to tell me that her dad is dead. You know what I mean? Like there are things that I will never be able to physically say I'm sorry for or make amends in that way. And so I try to live my life the best way that I can today. Because if I were to sit there and not do that. I mean, that's that's not a man in recovery to me. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like the guilt I have for some of the stuff I've done. If I wasn't living a life the way that I am today. I mean, I would stay loaded just off of guilt and shame alone. Right. I mean, and I'm looking for that freedom. Like that's what I'm after. Right. I'm looking for freedom. I got sober for freedom. I didn't get sober to feel guilty about what I've done to hold my own inequities over my head. Like that's not like I could sit there and do that. That narrative is in my head all day long. There will always be a reason for me to talk shit on myself. Yeah. But it's like contrary action. They talk about it in the book. Changing the narrative. We talk about that every day. Because if I can't switch, turn that switch off. It's a slippery slope. I am closer to my next drug or drink than anybody who's a newcomer. Yeah. When you think about it like that. We all have a choice today. We all make a choice when we get up. Do we hit our knees and thank God for the ability to be present and sober today? Or do we wake up thinking of self? Sometimes I wake up thinking of self. More than I'd like to admit. You know what I mean? Yeah. It gets heavy. It gets hard. Yeah. I couldn't imagine. And it sounds like me and your mom are kind of in the same boat. You know. Because I've had dozens of, upon dozens of conversations with addicts now. And I still, I'll never get it any more than I'll understand what it's like to be a woman in America today. Right. So it's, and, but I want to get closer and it sounds like she wanted to get closer to understanding to or otherwise she wouldn't have stuck with you the way that she did. A mother's love is stronger than anything, any love that I've experienced. It's the purest thing on earth. You know what I mean? And I don't think that she necessarily wants to understand it because I've talked to her about it. And sometimes when I bring stuff up from my past, she doesn't want to even open that door again because in her mind it's gone. Right. Right. In her mind I've, I've recovered. Yeah. You know what I mean? She's like, oh, sad you're not putting needles in your neck anymore. And I'm like, you know, who would have thought like it's a Christmas miracle. Yeah. God, who would have thought that would be the Christmas miracle you're looking for? You know what I mean? But I, the amount of respect she has for the work that I do shows me that there's so much pride there. Yeah. And there was a time, I mean, I, my mom told me she wouldn't, wouldn't talk to me, you know, until I had six months to a year of sobriety. And that was how my first year of sobriety went was having very little contact with my mother, but she paid for my sober living. That was her like push in the right direction. Like I will always show up for you if you are doing the right things. Right. But I put her through too much, dude. I mean, she could only handle so much stealing like just I call, I called her off of my cell phone trying to tell her that I had my cell phone stolen. That's how low did I was? Yeah. You know what I mean? Mom, I lost my phone. I need you to send me money so I can get a new one. She goes, set your calling me from yourself. And they're just like, oh, you know, the, the, the A tracks. It's about to be stolen. Someone's got, they have a knife up to my neck. Yeah. Like it was, it was crazy. And I thought I was so slick. I thought I was like, guys, I got this watch. Let me call mom. Yeah. And there's like one eye closed, like, you know, um, life is so different today. Yeah. Truly, you know, so I'm just grateful that I get the opportunity to see her enjoy her life because she doesn't have to worry about what I'm doing today. Yeah, dude. That's, I mean, life has so much to worry about as it, as it is right. And worrying about a child like that is just something that is unfathomable to me who hasn't experienced it yet. But, you know, man, and for what it's worth, I've never met her. I don't know if I ever will, but I got a lot of respect for your mom too. So a lot of people do. Yeah. She's a very powerful woman. Well, she, she had to be put up with my ass. Well, and, but to be fair too, man, you're a powerful guy. To be on the other end of what you went through and to be here and helping people out. I mean, just like these guys and you and thank God for that every day. Man, that's awesome. Changing the, uh, changing the narrative. So crucial. Like I was talking about this in a meeting the other day, actually, like, like no one talks about like, you know, we talked about step one, right? The surrender, but like, how do you even get to step one? It's, you know, I, uh, for me, my, my step one experience came to me when there was no doubt in my mind that I could not do this myself. Um, and I don't know what rehab it was, probably like four or five. I knew that I had to have that experience. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it still took another 20 centers after that. Yeah. Before I was ready to fully surrender because I could sit there. Lip service was a great thing for me. I mean, I'm a talker. I can present well. I can make you believe that I'm doing certain things until you see track marks on my hands, my neck, my arms. And then you realize, oh, shit, like he's not, he's not okay right now. Yeah. But I mean, if I, you know, give me a little cover up, you know, you know, hey, listen, you know, that's the only time your boys put on makeup. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I got that. Yeah. I used to donate plasma and I'd have to fucking steal from Walgreens to get makeup and no, no, nothing, nothing going on. Nothing going on. You know, I became a makeup expert. Like I know exactly what tone my skin. Hold on. You got Jay Klein and Sephora. Can I get the Sugar Blush 7 on the Mac? And they're like, oh, my, he's like, oh, my girlfriend loves that. Yeah. They're holding it up next to him. They're like, oh yeah, your girlfriend, huh? Yeah, okay. Your girlfriend. I swear. It's for her. Sure. It's for her. It's for her. What's your return policy? Yeah. You know, that first step experience, I mean, by the time that I was ready to go, I was like, by the time that I woke up on March 5th, 2015, I really, that's the, that's the day I count my sober date as March 6th, because that was the, when the full kick was hitting. Yeah. I woke up on March 5th on the floor of a hotel. Sorry, hotel is putting it nicely. It was a motel. It was a muh, you know, muh. All the lights were off on it. The M was still flickering. Yeah. In San Angelo, Texas. Oh, sweet. Let's go. My buddy had left me in that room the night before to drive to Idaho. Iowa, one of the states. Yeah. They're both similar. Doesn't matter. Same thing. One of the states. Sorry, Iowa and Idaho. My apologies, Iowa and Idaho. You guys are beautiful. I just don't know which one he was going to. So I remember I had, so this is going to get a little deep. Yeah. So bear with me. He had said, Hey, my dad will let us come and stay with him. And I somewhere, if you stop using. And I was like, I'm down. I just have to finish this bag. Yeah. So let me go do that real quick. And then we'll go. And he's like, all right, I'm going to grab a pack of cigarettes and Dr. Pepper. Do you want anything? I said, no, I'm good. I've been up for days. I hadn't eaten in longer. And I remember. I'm. Feeling something was off. And then I got a text message from him and he said, listen, I love you, but that was a test. And you failed that test. You should have thrown that stuff away and we could have gone tonight. I left. And so he packed up all his stuff and he left me at that hotel, at that motel, at that. And I remember I'm like. Sitting here. I've got a syringe full of heroin. I have to kill somebody. And so I'm like, I'm trapped here. I can't do this. There's no way out here. Mom won't talk to me. She paid for this motel for a week. And that's all I have left. And then I'm going to be some dude walking down the street, homeless here. And from how I was raised, that is something that you would not ever expect to see. You know, I've never wanted for anything. I've always had the best of everything. And now I'm homeless in San Angelo. A strung out heroin addict with no sense of self, no identity. All I know is how to get high, how to destroy relationships. That's it. And so I looked in the mirror. I put the rig in and I'm blast off. And I was like, this is it. This is going to kill me. I know it is. And I woke up in the morning on the floor of that motel bathroom. The needle was still in my arm. And I remember I like looked up and it was different because I was usually at least like still high when I wake up. I woke up and I was sicker than I had ever felt in my entire life. Full withdrawal. And I looked over and like my phone was like scattered across the bathroom and I looked at it and it was the first text that my mom had sent me in months and it was a picture of my insurance card. Whoa. And I was like, and I looked at my arm and I looked at where I was. I looked at my belongings, which had dwindled down to nothing over the past couple of months because the people that I were surrounding myself with were not good people. They would take everything from me. And I was so convinced that these people are my core group. These are my homies. Because we're destroying our lives together. These are the people that I'm meant to be with. And then I looked at my phone. I realized I'm there alone. There's nobody there except for the one person who has always been there. And so I sent a text. I said, I'm ready. And the next day is my sober date. Nice. Sober for almost a decade now. And I just remember life has come full circle because that guy who left me there has come back into my life several times asking for help. And I have helped him and had the ability and the resources to do so through my connections in the behavioral health space. I have been able to get him scholarships. I've been able to see him get sober. And then I continue to see him self sabotage and bring himself right back down to San Angelo. And I tell him, I say, you're going back to San Angelo. You're in San Angelo. That's what I reference so that it's less punitive. And he realizes that I was in that position. Yeah. I'm not trying to pass judgment on him, but I'm letting him know this is coming from a place of realizing that we shared that misery together. And it's really hard for me to see you in that misery now. Yeah, you were part of it. You're a big, big part of that story. He left me there. And I was like, how dare he? I was so pissed for like the first year of my sobriety. I wouldn't talk to him. I had nothing. I had nothing for him. Yeah. Until I realized that like my amends list was my entire fourth step. Yeah. My amends came from everybody that I thought it did me wrong. That fourth column, my part in everything. Fuck. That was hectic. I was like, man, I got to talk to his tall ass. Yeah. You know, and then we rekindled based off of that. And I realized that there was a lot of struggle that he was going through. That I'm over here thinking that he has left to have his two mules on a farm. Right. Life ever. You know, and it just wasn't the case. And it just goes to show that everybody has a struggle that you know nothing about unless you ask about it, unless they feel willing to speak on it. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Dude, that's heavy. How hard is it when when you help people go through what you were going through now? When you see like what your mom seen in you, when you see it and other people and fucking like, because this is something I struggle with is like when I'm trying to help someone and they're fucking just not ready yet. And we want to save the world. Yeah, we want to save the world. Man, see, I see, here's what where my mind goes with that. So when somebody is not willing to is not, I'm going to say not willing because ready and willing are one in the same. Yeah. My mind when they're not willing to take that help yet, it is it has nothing to do with us and everything to do with them. And it's hard for me because I do a lot of helping other people. So I don't have to look at my shit. Yeah. Sure. Like when I don't have to look at me, I will push outward. I will deflect and that comes, it can be a strength and a hindrance. Yeah. Right. Because I deflect through comedy. I love making people laugh. I love having a good time. I love to chop it up. We have a we just have a good time. But what that comes down to is I have to look at my thoughts about that. Like why am I truly doing that? You know, am I doing it because I want to make people laugh or am I doing it so that I don't have to look at something that I'm struggling with internally? Bro. And that's like, that's something that's super deep with me is we'll kind of dive into the whole ED aspect of my story, which has become a bigger part of what I go through. But like for me, it's about when somebody's ready, you feel it. When somebody's ready, you see it. You feel it through their words. You feel it through their words. You see it through their actions. You know what I mean? You can tell me something all day long, but until I see you working through it, I'm going to be there. I'm going to support you, but I'm not going to throw my all into it until I see you ready to do the work. You know, and that's, you know, the guys that I've worked with in the past taken through the steps. There have been some that have not been ready. There have been some that have been asking me to sponsor them so that they can just say they have a sponsor so that their housing gets off their back. And for those, I'm like, sure, you know, because sometimes they end up getting interested and end up making a beautiful life for themselves, but some of them, I know they're not ready. And I know some aren't going to stay sober right now. And I pray that they have a way to come back. You know what I mean? But as long as there's breath in their lungs, there's a chance. But I've seen some amazing people, some amazing sponsors that I've worked with that had all the promise in the world. I saw some really beautiful things from them lose their fight. Yeah. You know, and that is so painful losing this fancy. It is. Man, it is a pain that you want to take because you realize that you're seeing these relationships foster and grow and bloom back from these just just from nothing. You know what I mean? And then they lose it after they get so much back and the family is just gutted and shocked. And the amount of phone calls I've had, like, what happened? What could we have done better? And that is like the most heartbreaking thing to hear parents say, what could we have done better? It's like, this is nothing to do with you. You know, in some cases it does. Like some cases people come from horrible home lives that have kind of fostered the view of addiction as not being the worst thing in the world. But like those good families that due to a lack of understanding or blaming themselves for it. Of course. That's tough. Yeah. The ones that are left behind. That's got to be, man, that's gnarly. And then they have to live with all these unanswered questions that I can't answer. You know what I mean? Like what? And then you're his sponsor. Like you've been leading him. Were there any signs where they're in? And it's like, no, I saw him. He was fine on Thursday and then he went to a hotel room on Friday night and was dead by Saturday morning. You know, and it's just like, what do you say to that? It's like, you just have an immense sense of gratitude for the ability that to still be here and doing this the right way. But it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. I've talked about that a few times on here. You know, the, I know you guys aren't desensitized. It's not the right word, but the amount of people that you lose. We're used to it. And this is I wouldn't say desensitized because it still hurts. There's always going to be a moment where you're like, God, you know, you see the good times. You see the growth. There's always going to be like a sting. I wouldn't say desensitized, but it's happened so much that it. It unfortunately does not have to be a part of recovery, but it very much so is it is a reality that to be honest, one third of the people that we meet on this journey are not going to be at the end with us. And it sucks. So to that point, you know, me being like the ignorant kind of moron in this, Mike made a, he made a little bit of a joke earlier, but like, I'm always the first one to cry. Like, but I think same thing is not desensitized desensitization. Got it out. You want to try that again? Yeah. No, no, no, I'm going to have a bigger stroke if I try that again. Desensitized. But I don't, I don't think that's ever something that I'll be used to. Right. Like, and thank God for that. Yeah. There is nothing just thank God for the ability to feel that deep emotional connection to loss like that, because you haven't seen your brothers in arms going through that. Right. I'm grateful for that because that is, that's a beautiful thing to be able to stay present enough to be emotional, to get choked up, to feel every inch of that, every ounce, every inch. Yeah. Whoa, that was dark. My father, Josh, I wish that I wish that it just didn't happen. Yeah. I mean, I didn't have to experience stuff like that. Yeah. I don't know. I've, I've, I still never get used to it. It's crazy. And it's like, you know, the thing, I think, I think what I've also found in like recovery and sobriety journeys is like, there's really no fucking formula. There's no recipe for like, who makes it, right? The ones that are fucking doing all the deal, right? Are still can succumb to the disease. The ones you least expect it. 100%. You know, people think that doing all this stuff is just going to 100% keep you sober. And what it comes down to is your mindset, where you're at with God, you know, and God can be group of drunks, group of drugies, good orderly direction. It doesn't have to be some person, you know, for the start, like an acronym was how I gravitated to it at first, because when I first got sober, I thought that when I prayed, my words hit the ceiling and fell back down around me. There was no connection to anything higher, you know. But what it came down to is realizing that God leads. People that are not supposed to be in my life, I removed people that are are placed and like, I'll sit there and be like, what's the message here? What am I supposed to gather from this? You know, God's got a funny way of throwing life at me, man. You know, I've got almost 10 years sober and I just spent six weeks and eating disorder residential treatment center. I thought out tomorrow will be three weeks. You know, and I'm sitting there like, why is this happening? Why am I struggling so badly with this? Jay Klein, I talked to you about it like when I got sober, I thought that like, that was it. I mean, I'm in long term recovery now. Life is good. Like there's no other issues, you know. But over the past close to three years now, my biggest thing has been my eating disorder and sex and love addiction. And they have brought me to my knees in a way that substances never could. And that is profound. That is profound. That is scary. Yeah, here in the San Angelo story and in you saying that about those two things, that's that is profound. That's crazy. So talk about the eating disorder. When did that start? So I've been a bigger guy for most of my life. You're a pretty big dude. I'm a pretty big dude. I'm a stud. Yeah, you're in there. I have been bigger most of my life and I have seen how I get treated as a result of that. Sometimes it's great. People love the big funny guy, you know. And so I instantly felt like I belonged in my friend group. But then there was also an area of me that felt less than because everybody else was in great shape and I was the one that wasn't. So let's see, like six years sober, I started going through this process to get approved for the gastric sleeve surgery because I wanted to be smaller. I just wanted to be smaller. So I've had an eating disorder in some way, shape or form for the past 15 years or so. And the surgery in order to get it approved for through insurance, you have to take six months of classes so that you're aware of what the changes your body is going to go through and you are set up for success through the class. Right. And there's a psyche valve that you have to go through. And the provider, the psychiatrist asks you a list of battery of questions and all this stuff about your history, family, history, diseases, illnesses, yada, yada, yada. And they get to this portion where it's like, do you or have you ever had any form of disorder eating or a diagnosed eating disorder? And I said no, because I knew that if I said yes, they would, I would instantly be. Not approved. Not approved for the surgery. And I was like, what's the worst that can happen? You know, I'm going to say no. And so I have the surgery goes off without a hitch. I'm noticing that every few days I'm having to go to the hospital to get fluids because I cannot keep anything down. And it's like you're on a liquid diet. So like you're literally only drinking like clear liquids and eating Jell-O for the first like two weeks. I mean, you're on the liquid diet for like eight weeks after the surgery. But I can't even keep water down. So I'm like something's wrong. So they check my labs and all this stuff and they find out that I've got acute pancreatitis. And I don't know if you've ever had that. Nope. But it is the most severe pain I've ever, ever had, you know, and I had it three times. I got sent back three times and they wouldn't let me leave whenever they found out that I have it. So I had it staying in the hospital for 60 days, something like that. They had to take out my golf ladder. They had to put it. They had to do a ton of stuff. And all this, all the while I have a pick line in my bicep that's feeding me because I can't have anything by now for 60 days. And I'm in this hospital and they transfer me to from Orange County to Los Angeles for their stomach doctors are like the best in the world. So they didn't feel comfortable taking my case at the hospital that I was at. They put me in a room and I sat in that room the first 30 days of my stay, no TV on, didn't have the windows open. I was just in a dark room and we talk about accessibility and one of my good friends, all Frankie, sir, embrace abundance himself. And I were having conversations while because we were both in the hospital at the same time. And I realized like what it is like when you are not as easily accessible and you have this huge friend group and you look to see who's going to show up for you in the way that you show up for them. And when it doesn't happen that way, what it puts your mind through is pretty crazy. And I'm looking at all this and I'm realizing that the caveat to this is my eating disorder. My eating disorder is what put me here. So I ended up staying there and then I got out and by the time I got out, I'd lost like 80 pounds. And because the whole surgery is supposed to make you lose weight and keep in mind that I was 380 pounds. So like I've gotten down to, you know, the six month process before the surgery, I got down to like 330. And then I'd lost more weight in the hospital. So now I'm down to like 270. And it's just like the weight is just dropping. I'm seeing these rapid changes and my mind is just firing, you know, you need to lose more, you need to lose more, you need to lose more. Keep it going, keep it going. And then it just kind of developed into bulimia and it stayed there and it started to take everything away from me. It started to take my ability to work out effectively because I can't. I'm my basal metabolic rate is I'm burning 1200 calories. I'm just sitting here doing nothing. Then I'm working out burning another 1200 calories because I'm orthorexic as well. So I'm looking at everything that I've eaten throughout the day, going to the gym and using my Apple Watch to tell me how many calories I've burnt and not leaving the gym until I've burnt the calories equivalent to what I've eaten for the day. And then my trainer is telling me I need to be 3600 calories a day. So I'm already under that to effectively bulk and I'm just losing everything to the point to where I get down to 209 pounds and I'm 66 and and malnourished. And I am getting called out at a marketing event that I'm hosting by my boss in front of a bunch of other people about your skin and bones, like what's going on here. And I mean, what do I say? What do I say? There's guilt and shame because I've got I'm in long term sobriety, you know, and here I am hosting this event. My boss is calling me out for another disorder that I've got. And what it comes down to is I don't trust food. There's a fear of food. There is a I don't view it as fuel. I view it as something that can harm me. And I feel it feels so crazy saying that because I look at my life and before I had the surgery, there was nothing. My love language was sharing a huge powerful meal with friends. You know what I mean? And now I go and it's like I take a couple bites and then the voices are just run and rampant. Tell me I'm not deserving of nourishment, fuel, you know, all that stuff. And it was just like such such departure from what my life looks like as a result of doing these good things. Right. And so I went and I saw treatment and that was it was the hardest thing I've ever done harder than any substance abuse treatment. One can only imagine like that one's a that one's a wild one that, you know, I we were making discussion. Earlier about how there's so much more room for talk of substance like you want to start a podcast, there's plenty of them out there. God bless them all because there needs to be more. So it's just widely this is one particularly for men that doesn't get talked about at all. Yeah. I mean, it's as men, it's we're not highly emotional creatures, not as highly emotional as a woman. Right. So there's a lot of get over it. Man up. Yeah. Do do the the reality is is we are. We have all those things going on in us that a woman does. The societal pressures of it is like, well, you you push that shit down and you man talk about you don't. Yeah, you shut up. Yeah, you like that again. So man, thank you for talking about that. Of course, like 25 to 40% of eating disorder diagnosis are men, you know, and when I was in treatment, I was in treatment with three other men. And there was so there was a total of six of us. So I mean, I guess I was the third man. So there was half and half. And I was I was like, that's that's cool. You know, because I got to experience, I got to grow with other men. Yeah. And through the same thing, just different. One of them had our fit, which is a super interesting eating disorder, which is related to people who are primarily on the autism spectrum with like textures of foods and like the disconnect being so great that they just. Physically will not eat because of fear around the way a food feels like it's super interesting like how did how many different disorders there are. And I was learning about all of them while I was going through this, but the number one thing that I learned is that all foods that were deserving of nourishment and that disorders kill more people than car crashes. You know, every year. And it's disguised as something else, you know, until it comes out that they've been struggling. You know, so my whole thing is trying to kind of create. To open conversation about it and around it and to show that. Recovery is possible and it's worth it. And that, you know, I'm still very early in that aspect, but I pull a lot of my strength from my substance abuse recovery. Yeah. You know, you got a test run because I've been I've been shown that I can do hard things. Yeah. You know, and this is just another another mountain to climb. It's definitely something new. My daughter doesn't eat much. And we found out that she she gets anxious when she gets around different texture food. And I was like, that's got to be some made up shit. Right. And, but it's something like that's that that was kind of my question is, you know, like when with recovery, there's so much steps and there's so much help out there for something as new as that. Is there as much knowledge and so there's out there. There's a ton. So there are a ton of resources, a ton of resources. But the thing is that they're so eating disorders have been around for ever. And there have been treatment centers that specialize in it for a very long time, but they aren't talked about because it's not as it's not as it's not broadcasted in the way that substance abuse treatment is. Right. And I think that's why people aren't coming out and being like, I mean, you know, I've been sober or I haven't engaged in behaviors in in six years, you know, you know, it's not like that necessarily because we notice that the guilt and the shame is so much deeper because it's usually rooted because I mean, you look at addiction, right. And there are different variables. There is circumstantial. There is genetic. There's all these other things that go into it. Whereas with an eating disorder, unless it is arphid, which is directly resulted directly correlated to primarily correlated to autism. You look at an eating disorder and you realize that that in most cases is a trauma response. Right. Because eating disorders aren't genetic. It's not it's not a genetic disposition. Like someone who doesn't have an eating disorder is not more prone to getting it if their mom had one, right? Unless they're looking and emulating that behavior, which is then is a trauma response. That's what I was about to say. You know what I mean? So for me, I look at my life. My life growing up was beautiful. But one thing that stuck out to me is my fear of abandonment. And where does that come from? The whole adopted aspect. And I didn't realize that until I was working through my steps that my resentment towards my biological mother is what kind of formulated a ton of different things. I mean, I love the woman. You know, I see her. I'm so proud of her. But even though I hit the jackpot with being adopted. I still wonder why I wasn't enough to fight for. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I don't ever want her to see this or hear that and think that I'm like wondering, you know, thinking that she's did that on purpose, but it was the most selfless act that she could do. Yeah. Which was to give me the ability to have the best life that I possibly could because I shuttered to think what my life would have looked like. You know, I don't know what I'd be doing now. Yeah. And so I'm again, changing that narrative, but that resentment isn't just something that's going to disappear. You know what I mean? It takes a lot of fucking work, hard work. But I know that the work is worth it because I have examples of how that hard work is worth it. Yeah. Well, if anybody was wired up to navigate their way through this, it's probably you. Because of what you and I mean that in all sincerity and with all due respect to what you are going through. But you doing all of that intense work in drug addiction, you know, look, dude, you're going to make it all the way through this too. There's no doubt about it. Go ahead. Sorry. So I had a friend, I have a friend and that went through a similar thing. And it's very hard to under grasp, right? Like, I think about like, well, why would I put heroin in my arm? You know, why would you do that? Why would you want to be homeless? So it's like, it's really weird to be on the other side of that from another whole another disorder. And it's like, it doesn't, you know, it's not the same. So my question is, does the 12 step modality transfer over to that in any way or. So I've had like multiple viewpoints on this because before I came in the day before I checked in, I was on the phone with the director of clinical services for the treatment center that I went to. For the eating disorder and we had like a 45 minute conversation because I was like, I got to go on leave from work like everybody professionally knows because I made this huge post on Facebook about it just so that I could be at front and be held accountable. Because I felt because I feel that if I can hide something, I'm going to hide it. You know what I mean? And that goes to show, I mean, I've been working in the space. We have eating disorder programs under our umbrella of the pro of the company that I work for. And I've been in an active eating disorder state for years. So I knew that if I didn't get accountable and throw myself out there like that that I was going to be able to slink back into the shadows and do the same shit over and over again, which is insanity. There is a 12 step program. So there's EDA eating disorder anonymous. There's OA over readers anonymous. There's there's programming. But the director of clinical services says, I'm not an advocate for those meetings because they are abstinence based. And you cannot abstain from food. That is not something that you can do effectively. You know, you can abstain from behavior. However, if you sit there and you continue to talk about behavior, it's different and it can be more damaging than good. So it's about focusing on the physical and health benefits. And necessities of eating and where that comes from. And that's not done in a 12 step program. Right. Now, in terms of support, I think that it is important to be around people who have struggled in the same way. And that is a great way to do so is by going to meetings because if you feel you're alone in your house, nobody understands you. You know, that's that's everything. Yeah. You know, like I learned like a group of drugs taught me how to not pick up dope. So I would love to see if a group of people who have been struggling in the same way that I do can help me find some solace in the fact that I can eat and feel and not feel guilt about it. You know, I mean, for example, I've had doses of food freedom, which is a beautiful thing because for a while I have not had that. I went to a certain place, got some to keto, got a to keto the other day and a fucking milkshake at one in the morning. Yeah. Okay. And I sat there in the car. I parked it in the parking lot. I backed in and I'm just sitting there just like, you know, a cop drove by and they'd be like, what is he doing? You know, like, no, I'm just just a to keto. I'm sitting here and it was like a thick milkshake. It's on. So there's just, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, like having that full moment. And then when the shake hit the tongue, I was like, oh man. Yeah. This is this is what it's about, you know, and I did not have any guilt in that moment. Yeah. And it's crazy to say, but those moments are few and far between right now. I mean, I'm only three weeks out. Yeah. And so like, I'm still very raw into that whole aspect, but being able to feel that and just be like content with it was beautiful. And it showed me that I'm recovering because honestly, like full disclosure, like a month ago, like five weeks ago, if I had taken a bite of that to keto and a drink of that milkshake, I would have run to the bathroom and gotten rid of it immediately. You know what I mean? There's no presence there. And it's an overwhelming urge to get to get rid of it, you know, and that's gone. I have freedom from that moments at a time. There are times where the voices come in and it's like, hey, you're going to get fat. And I have to, and it's about changing the narrative. It's about rewiring those those pathways and associating, you know, the good in protein and stuff like that. But it's it's it's tough, dude. It's it's a battle. The boy is at war in some days. Yeah. Yeah, that was a good question because we we have we know a girl that her daughter goes through it and she she'll call me and say, Hey, can you talk to her? Because I know that you went through addiction and I might be happy to talk to her. I talked to her all the fucking time, but I don't I don't understand it. Right. You know what I'm saying? I'm fucking doing math. I can talk to you through that one. But when it comes to like, and she's such a pretty girl, she's beautiful, but she even feels like she needs to weigh 90 pounds. Like I need to weigh 90 pounds weighing 105 or 10 is I'm fat and weighing 93. Yeah. You know, it's I know her to. Yeah, she should. She I'm going to definitely get her to watch this episode. You know, it's it's important to realize because I very much have the same thing. I would weigh myself every single day, multiple times a day. And the number on that scale would completely dictate how I felt about myself as an individual. I didn't look at what a steamable axe I'd done was I altruistically minded. It was none of that. All of that was null and void because but you know, it doesn't matter if I woke up. And read my pages and my third step prayer. That didn't matter. If I weighed over two 15, I was a horrible person and I was not. I didn't deserve to eat. I needed to go to the gym immediately. Like it was just it was wild. And I'm not that far removed from that. So a lot of the times I still have that that that first thought, but then I have to remember first thought wrong. Always. Yeah. Yeah. First thought wrong. Always. I have to sit and revise that thought and make some changes here and there until I get to the truth behind the thought. Right. So is it my thoughts dictating my beliefs, which are dictating my actions or where is the disconnect? Right. Like, and what am I trying to fix within myself that I just need to like let be for a second. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. How did the societal role play in that? Like, I know the fear of abandonment, but like just on like by society, standards adopted. African American male gay, gay, heroin addict. Gay community. I've been dead for five years. Okay. Like when you're when you turn 30 as a gay male, they're like, oh my God, daddy. I've never thought I'd hear that, you know. And so that's a huge part because everyone's so fit and everyone's doing all this stuff. And then I start getting all this attention when I lose all that weight on the surgery. And then that changes everything because then I'm in the validation is in the mix. Yeah. Little ego maybe. Little, I mean, I'm all quit playing me. It's crazy. Society plays such a role because there's also I'm a member of a gastric sleeve support group on Facebook. They have like 275,000 members worldwide that have all had this surgery. And you see these pictures of people and their results and then people have had plastic surgery to remove the excess skin and there's all this stuff. And so you're constantly comparing. It's always comparison, always comparison. Oh, that person lost that much. Oh, he can eat that much now. Oh, this is that. And it pulls you out of the present moment. I did that surgery because I wanted to be healthier. I wanted to have a better relationship with fitness. I wanted to be able to do things that I never thought possible as an overweight man who was pre-diabetic and I am no longer pre-diabetic. I'm no longer overweight. I can in the gym five times a week. I can do anything that any other man can do. I can go anywhere a free man can go as long as I have a purpose for being there. Yeah. That is a firm belief that I have as a man and sobriety as a man and just sort of eating recovery as somebody who has a sex and love addiction. There are these things. There are reasons that we will be looked at differently and that we can choose to look at ourselves as, you know, as negatives or we can use them as a scope for growth and internal progress. Right. And like I said earlier, I'm looking for that freedom. I am looking for the ability to be a good person and know that intrinsically within myself and not have to hear it from somebody else, not to have society telling me that I'm a good person, but to know it here. I mean, what it comes down to is like I was ten years sober, but I didn't feel like I was a good person. I still am. There are times where I'm not the best person. You know what I mean? There are times I'll ghost somebody. Hey, that's whack, dude, block. You know what I mean? I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm there are times where I have done things that I'm not proud of more recently than I'd like to admit, but guess what? I'm still a good person. Yeah. You know, I make mistakes and that is that is a part of this is realizing that, OK, that was a mistake. Let's not do that again. Let's change how this happens. Don't get me wrong. There are some mistakes that are, you know, like a little hard to come back from. But I haven't done anything like that yet. I haven't found a reason to have no desire to, you know, I just want to keep going. Man. So I don't want to overlook this because you made mention of it one o'clock in the morning, milkshake to keto, right? To me, going through what you're going through. Huge win. You should celebrate that for yourself. And just outside or looking in, don't understand that. Don't understand what you're going through at all. But remember that feeling. At 1 a.m. with that milkshake and that to keto and how good that made you feel. I hated that. Turn into a little crack head about it. I got a little shit. Yeah. Hold up. You can get out. Hey, man, I should have gotten out of the car and like it's like leaned on the hood with it. Yeah, dude. Like one in the morning. I'm doing, you know, one in the morning. It's kind of, you know, the, and it was the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, on Koenig. There are some, yeah, some questionable people standing outside. I was like, what, how late is this place open? And I realized it said they serve breakfast from 11 p.m. to 11 a.m. I said, oh, damn. Yeah. It's open all night. Yeah. That's, listen. Hey, that's a huge win for you though. That's a huge win. And like I, I, we talk about all the time, but little moments, you know, change somebody in recovery. And that's a little moment that can just be blown by in a story, but it's such a huge deal. I mean, it really is, man. And so take time to celebrate that for yourself. It's happened a couple of times and it's crazy because it's certain foods that do it for me. Yeah. Like that's for all of that. Obviously that, and then there's like a bowl of cereal. Oh, okay. Like I haven't had cereal because for the longest time they taught me that after having the surgery, you, well, you can't eat and drink at the same time. And so in my mind, it's like a bowl of cereal is literally food and milk. Yeah. You know, so it's like, I was terrified to do it until they made me do it when I was at this treatment center as a challenge meal. I'm sitting there just housing a combination of honey nut Cheerios and Lucky Charms. And I was like, oh, shit. This is good. This is, this is fire. You know, and so I, you know, I have a bowl of cereal and I don't feel guilty. Yeah. Like it's those other, other foods that are like heavier that I just, I just struggle with. So I try to stick to safe foods, which are nutrient dense, which helped me because I've still go to the gym. Another big thing was my relationship with fitness. I had a very unhealthy relationship with movement in, in relation to what it did to my body. And so it's also about having healthy limits with that. You know, they didn't let me work out at all for six weeks. I got put on a behavior contract because I got caught doing pushups in my bedroom. You know, I'm doing air squats in the shower. Yeah. You know, they're like, satch, you got to stop working out. Yeah. You can't be pacing up and down the halls. You know, you can't be doing any of that. You're on, what was it? Restorative rest. There were movement levels. That's what I was going to ask you as the girl we were talking about. She's not allowed to weigh herself and she's not allowed to work out. They took that away from me. And, and I was thinking like from the, like, I know how important it is for me to work out, especially in my recovery. And I was thinking like in my mind, that doesn't make a lot of sense because if she and really enjoys working out, what's the problem with her going to work out? You know, it's, I see. I had the same, the same. I don't know. Now I'm not saying I know what I'm talking about. Just in my mind, I'm like, I can see the weighing part because look, I'm in pretty good shape. And when I weigh myself and I'm like, fuck man, like I shouldn't eat that fucking pizza yesterday. I still do it now. Right. But like for her not to be able to go walk like she likes to walk, she'll go walk 10 miles. And they're like, yeah, you can't walk anymore. So they basically they. So I had the same thing. I was like, why this is literally what makes me feel sane. This is what makes me feel normal is you're taking that away from me while I'm going through the hardest thing in my life. For me, it was based on medical necessity. So every time they have, they read your blood pressure every morning before you start your day and three times a week they have you, they do your orthostatic. So your blood pressure when you're laying down, when you're sitting up and when you're sitting and when I would go from sitting to standing, my blood pressure would drop 20 points. And so it just was due to my lack of nourishment that I was a risk for doing anything active. And I didn't think about it like that. I just thought I was like lightheaded because like I went too hard on leg press. You know what I mean? When in reality it's like my body is craving nutrients and I'm over here essentially working out doing heavy leg days completely fasted. You know, and going throughout my day, not refueling my body afterwards. You know, after you hit a hard leg day, you need to eat some carbs. You need to eat a huge meal. Me physically, because 80% of my stomach is gone. I can't physically do that. So I need to eat every two hours. And it's just like in my mind, I'm just like, I don't have the bandwidth for that. So that also tied into the eating disorder because then I'm making excuses for it. You know what I mean? So my team said, we know you're going to go back to working out regardless of the fact that we think you should not. So why don't you try going three days a week for 45 minutes each time instead of spending two hours a day in there five days a week. And I said, okay, I'll do that. And so I have honored that. And it is a challenge because I feel like I'm not making adequate gains because in my mind, like if I'm not doing, if I'm not going hard as fuck five days a week, like I'm failing. But in reality, it's like, I lost all my muscle mass and I have to start somewhere and it's got to be slow and it's got to be controlled. And like that doesn't make me, that doesn't make me any less than, but what I, the narrative that I'm struggling with is like, without my muscles, like what am I? If I'm not attractive, what am I? And that also feeds into the love, the sex and love, you know what I mean? I'm seeking, I'm seeking that, that high, that rush. And I'm getting it from all the wrong areas. I'm getting it from all the wrong areas and that's not, that's not recovery to me. That's jail. I'm trapped again, you know? And it's just, it's, I have to make sure that I'm mindful of that because it's very easy when you get a text message from, from Mr. This or Mr. That who's filling my cup up, like giving me that valid, that sense of validation. It's easy for me to overlook. It's a cup with a hole in it, dude. Listen, go straight through. Yeah. You know, it's, and it's just like, but at the same time I've got those mantras going in one ear, wrapping around my brain. And then if I let it, it'll fly right back out the other ear. But if I keep it in there, all foods fit, you know, healthy movement is good movement. You're valuable without the validation of others, fine validation within yourself. And it's like these mantras fly around, but how easy is it to truly grasp that? Is the real, is the answer that I'm looking for, you know, and I'm, it's, it's a whole journey of self discovery and I'm learning a lot about myself in the process for sure. And that's, well, would you say like, that's how we, in order to sustain those mantras, we have to back those by discipline. 100% yeah. Discipline and action. Right. And that same first thought wrong mentality because my first thought is always something negative. Yeah. Always. If I, I was talking to my mom about this, if I found somebody or saw someone speaking to someone the way that I talk to myself sometimes. Yeah. SOS baby. Yeah. Slap on site. We're fighting in the street. You know what I mean? Like that's like, that's not, we need to stand up for ourselves the way that we stand up for other people. Right. Because at the end of the day, regardless of like our core group, like we're all we've got. Yeah. When everything else is gone, you have yourself. When you leave, you have you. Especially you guys, you know, because you guys are so generous with giving to other people. Right. I could, I could easily see how you could get lost with that. Yeah. And I think that's because you're, it's just another form of covering up. Right. Like, I mean, not looking like not having to look at it. Right. So I think it's real important for you guys. I, I had, I was, I went to therapy. I went through a real bad, not a bad divorce in my ex-wife, we're friends and everything's good and I made it sure that it stayed that way. But at the time when it happened, I went through so much pain that I was like, I'm going to show you. So I went to the gym and I was working out six days a week, like hours at a time. Didn't have eating disorder. I was eating plenty, but I was like, I'm going to get ripped. That's pretty much. Right. It was like, but that's not healthy. That's not a healthy reason mentally to get yourself in shape. It doesn't ever need to be about, I'm going to show you or I'm doing this for you. Well, that never really sustains anyway. Yeah. It's like doing it for yourself. Yeah. I'm a fat guy again. Oh, stop it. We don't use that word. There's no negative association with that word. That's another thing that I learned is that people have used, have changed the word fat to be something horrible and negative when in reality fats are a content that's in a food. Yeah. You know what I mean? In order for us to be healthy to a certain extent, right? Again, society is what changed a lot of that. Yeah. And just the things that I learned while I was there, it was, because when I first got there, I was not happy. I had been, I was not happy. You know, and you're thinking like substance abuse treatment. You're like, I don't want to be here. I'm going to leave them, you know? But at the same time, I have my job holding stuff over my head. Yeah. You know, my livelihood. So I got to sit there and buckle down and find out and swallow some real hard truths about myself, you know, which is that I, again, the whole deflection thing. I don't like looking inward. And now I'm in a program where I have to look at every reason that I felt less than. It's essentially like a fourth step. You know, you're looking at every reason you got loaded, every reason you ever felt less than every injury, every pain, you're walking around with a bunch of open cuts. Unless you do that healing, you're bleeding all over everyone around you. That's why when people like are acting out, lashing out, I'm like, what's the you on? They're on four. Yeah. How long have you been on your four steps? Seven weeks? Like, yeah. So you're just fucking bleeding all over. Everybody do get that shit done. You know what I mean? Get that freedom. Um, but then what does that look like when you're sitting in treatment for an eating disorder where you're forced to sit at a table six times a day and engage with something that you feel literally is trying to kill you and take away your happiness? Yeah. How do you, how do you recover from that? You know what I mean? Um, and it's just, it's been a lot of. Yeah. So I'm like, fuck, here I am again, having to dig into the depths of my soul to pull out my solution because it's worth it. Right? Yeah. Somebody tell me it's worth it. Where's the alumni panel? Where's somebody who's been here and tells me that this gets better because I know that if I stop using drugs, things get better. But right now I feel like if I keep eating, things get worse. That was a narrative that is easier to change on some days than it is on others. It's like, I could wake up tomorrow and be like, I'm going to fuel my body. I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to have a great day. And then I could wake up on Tuesday and be like struggling to eat a yo play. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just, it's, it's crazy. Yesterday we had a huge thanks miss meal. My mom does this thing where she combines Thanksgiving and Christmas so that all of her brothers and sisters come together with all their kids and it's a huge thing. And we had this huge meal catered yesterday to turkeys. All, I mean, just all, you know, Thanksgiving foods and stuff fire. Yeah. I eat about five ounces of food, like, you know, which I can do comfortably with my stomach, whatever this morning struggled to eat one of those tiny yogurts. Like really struggled. You know, so it's like day to day it's different and that's okay. As long as I'm like making moves to continue doing things like first thought wrong, first thought wrong, dude, first thought wrong. I'm like, I don't want to eat wrong. Yeah. I need to eat. I deserve to eat. You know what I mean? So it's just, it's, it's just, and you should. I mean, yeah. You think going through, you may have answered this in a way. Do you think going through addiction recovery a program is helping you in this as well? Uh, yeah, for sure. Um, because like I said, it's taught me that, that I'm able to get through things that I do, that I see no end in the pain. Like I, when I don't see the pain ending, I have proven to myself. That hope is not lost. Yeah. Well, you're pulling stuff up too. Like you were pulling shit out of yourself when going through the drug recovery. Right. So this is just pulling more shit. I'm like, I think you, you, you pull all this stuff out and you've hit that level and you're like, you go down to get more and your hand hits the bottom and it's like, kink, you're like, okay, all right, I'm done. But then you realize you got to punch through to get to the other, to get to the further level and then pull more stuff out. And it's always, it's always something there's, but it also can be used and seen as a positive, right? Like there are more reasons and ways to pull solution out from that pain. And that's what my goal is, but that pain is, is it's intense. You know, and sometimes it'll push people away from the solution that's right underneath that pain because they don't want to face it. Right. And I'm not going to do that. So I'm going to walk through that pain. I'm going to let it scare the shit out of me. I'm going to let it hurt. But I know that there's something on the other side of that and it's going to be fucking beautiful when I see it. Yeah, man. Yeah, man through through, but you got to fight through pain to see a smile or happiness, right? Like you, and I'm happy to life is so good. Yeah. Life is so good. And, but there was a point, you know, nine weeks ago where I was so miserable, what it came down to is I knew that if I didn't get help, I was going to get loaded again. And that's like, I'm not willing to sacrifice my sobriety for anything. Yeah. For anything today. More importantly, cause like fentanyl's out here killing people on accident. Yeah. You know, and that's like, that is absolutely mortifying to me. You know, what it came down to is like a lot of people were saying like, oh, you know, I would fight it. If I didn't have any consequences, I'd still be getting high. You know what I mean? But the, but everything started to outweigh the worth. And then I started looking at my relationships and sort of looking at my friendships. I'll use that word very loosely. Um, and I'm like, what am I gathering? What am I gaining from this relationship? Track marks and debt. And I look at my friendships today. I gain insight, wisdom. I feel love. I feel God. Like that's just like that, that's stuff that you don't, that's stuff that some people will never be able to experience. And what a beautiful thing that we get to do that today. You know, and so I, I choose to look at that when I'm feeling real insecure about how my body looks, when I'm feeling like not good about me, I look at what God has given me. I look at what my sobriety has given me that hard work, that good orderly direction. I look at the fruits of my labor and it keeps me going because there's, will always be a reason to stop going. But I'm not going to, you know, cause things get better, continue to get better. Every year gets better. It just comes with its set of challenges. Sure. You know, that's it. That's that. Well, look, man, I don't think there is any mistake that you were in that hospital bed next to Mr. Frank Parisi. You know what I mean? Like you are one remarkable human being. And, and, um, battling the two things that you, you've battled, you know, one, both of them are successful. I don't want to make your, you're on the other side of the other one, but you still have some work to do. I think it's fair to say with one of them, the other one, that never stops. Never. That'll never, ever stop. And to be fair, maybe the other one won't either. But great quote, man, for a start wrong. I'm, I'm actually going to use that for me. I wish I could take credit for that. Right. Yeah. I wish I could take credit for that. Well, you said it. Yeah, I actually wrote that down on a Waterburger receipt back in 1998. Hey, well, you're Hemingway. For, well, look, brother, coming in here and sharing what you've shared is going to help a lot of people. And I think it's going to be a, it's going to cast a bigger net than anyone else. I think that that's ever done it because of the second thing that you've struggled with, and I couldn't thank you more. We couldn't thank you more for coming in and doing that. That took a lot of courage. I appreciate it. And you, uh, blast. You guys are such a vibe, so much fun. And it, you know, it made talking about that a little easier because when, you know, I'm used to talking about that in a room full of people who are currently struggling with it and it's dark and painful. And then there's a therapist who has a lot of schooling around it, but hasn't experienced it herself. So it's like, it's just nice to be able to talk about it at a different format. Different levels. I appreciate you guys allowing me to show up here and be real with you guys. But the pleasure is all ours, man. So, uh, I always extend this to anyone that comes, but your family now, you're, you're part of the two addicts and a moron family. And, uh, if where's my t-shirt, uh, we're about to get you one. Yeah. The door is always open to you. If you want to come and hang out and watch, if you need to get back on the couch again, always welcome. And don't say that every time I visit, I'll come back on this. Hell, please, please do. It's been a year. Let us know. Let us know. Well, we love to get you back in here again. And, um, if there's anything you need from us, like you need anything, let us know. We'll give me 10,000. Yeah. Shiny 10,000 too. Yeah. Let me see. So this guy, gentlemen, find you. Yeah. What's your social media? Yeah. How, how we get murdered over here. My Instagram is all underscore satches, s-a-t-c-h-s underscore fault. And I think there's another underscore, but I mean, you should be able to find me if you can't find me, don't message me because they're a bigger problem. They need to work through. Um, Facebook is Satch Selden. Um, LinkedIn is such so if you want to do some business, come find me. Hell yeah. You got three options. Business, pleasure and, uh, friends, friends, yeah. Business, pleasure, just friends and just friends. Unless you hit that DM, right? Hey, hit the DM. We'll keep it private. Okay. Oh man. Secret safe with me. Yeah, you're coming back. Let's go. You're coming back. You are getting back here for sure. I love it. Oh, so guys, this is pretty class. Man. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you a million times. Episode 43 of two addicts and a moron. We are out of this mug.