From Denny’s Waitress to Billion-Dollar CEO with Jamie Kern Lima

Today I have a very special guest here on the podcast. Her name is Jamie Kern Lima. You probably have heard of her name. She is the founder of IT Cosmetics, which later sold to L'Oreal. And she is somebody that you're gonna get so many wonderful nuggets from. She's written two times. I think twice, Jamie. Now, New York best selling books, the latest one is Worthy. It's amazing book. I have it here on my shelf. And she's an overall amazing person, business leader, also guest on Shark Tank. She's incredible. Jamie, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Jefferson, honored to be here with you. And congratulations on everything. As a friend, it's been really fun to cheer you on. Thank you. You've been a... Jamie's been a wonderful friend throughout my whole experience here for somebody who's very new to writing books. Jamie... Jamie's not so she was great at checking in on me when I needed it when I needed it most. I would love for you to tell the listeners here kind of your short story of you went from as a waitress at Denny's to now CEO, a billion dollar company. I mean, that's with a bee. You know, how did you get there and where you at now? Yeah, well, I think it's a story that so many people listening and watching us right now can I'm sure relate to in many ways and it's also part of why I think the work you're doing, Jefferson, is so powerful because you know, it comes to communication, especially how we communicate with ourselves about ourselves, can change everything. And it's funny. A lot of people, if they Google my story, they'll see sort of the outcome or maybe the highlight reel. The real journey was, and most of my life, the way I communicated to myself was very much around, am I enough? Am I worthy of these things? And so much of my life was filled with a lot of self doubt. And so I think that, you know, when people look at the outcome now and maybe they've read the book, you know, some of my books or or they've heard the story of, you know, starting the company in my living room selling it to L'Oreal for over a billion dollars. Cash, like just things that just seem wild, like I must just be so confident and have so much self worth. And I've gotten to that point where I'm able to talk to myself, I'm communicating with myself, and of course others, from a place of, you know, okay, I'm worthy of my goals and dreams. But for anyone listening who's maybe in that place where they still have that self doubt, which is kind of wild because Jefferson, as you and I are talking right now, 80% of women don't believe they're enough 73% of men feel inadequate and not enough. And a lot of times we hide it and we think it's just us or, you know, there's something wrong with us or maybe we aren't enough. And you know, what I've learned to believe is like when we fundamentally believe we're not enough or unworthy, it's a lie. And it's a lie. We keep telling ourselves over and over that becomes our ceiling in so many areas of our life. And the beautiful thing is through work like yours, like mine, like so many things out there, like, you know, we're able to unlearn those lies and really believe we're enough. So for my story, you know, I was, I was raised in the suburb of Washington state and I used to, I used to sit with my parents worked a lot and I would watch Oprah every day in my living room. And I used to have, I used to have this kind of whisper when I was a little kid. And I'm sharing this in case anyone listening has had a similar experience. But I had to have this whisper like one day, I'm in a hostess show and like, like she does and share other people's stories with the world and help somebody people. And I also had this kind of whisper, like I would meet her one day. And, you know, as this kid in the middle of a suburb of Washington state who didn't know nobody, who knew nobody, it was sort of just this big kind of wild thing. But I had that whisper. And, and, you know, growing up, I did all these jobs trying to eventually, you know, make my dream happen. So I pushed grocery carts in the Safeway parking lot and bad groceries and sold popcorn at the swap meet and was a receptionist to coach gymnastics. And, you know, I worked a lot of jobs trying to pay my way through school. We trusted Denny's. And I remember the days, wait your sing at Denny's Jefferson. I would have moments where I would look around the restaurant because our, our kitchen had operational challenges. And the pancakes would always take like an hour to get out customers with me. It was a mess. And I used to have these thoughts like, I can, I can run this restaurant one day. And I'd have these big ideas. But myself, doubt at the time, was so loud the way I communicated with myself was like, oh, but you're not qualified. You, you don't know anyone who runs a, you know, that kind of thing. So I would sort of doubt myself out of things during that season in my life. And, um, fast forward to where we are today. It's been a wild, crazy journey building it cosmetics from my living room all the way to selling it for a billion dollars. The story is really a story of learning how, how do you turn down the volume on your own self doubt? And like sort of turn up the volume on your knowing that you are enough that you're worthy, that your dreams are possible for someone like you and, and I had to learn how to do that. Um, and I would say the journey of learning how to communicate with myself. And then others, because I started going live on QVC to sell our products, uh, the journey of learning how to communicate without that, none of this would have happened. I wouldn't have believed I was worthy of my dreams. I wouldn't have believed I was worthy of being called CEO of having a team of over a thousand employees of going from Denny's waitress to selling a company to L'Oreal that I started in my living room for over a billion dollars. It was really my whole story is really a journey, um, of learning not just how to communicate with customers and, and through product and on television, but also just in my own head. Yeah. And I, what I love so much about your story, Jamie, is that it is, like you said, the whispers, like these little things that we tell ourselves, it really can be achievable. You obviously have something special of where you are now is incredible. For anybody, just now listening, Jamie is the first female CEO in L'Oreal's 100 year history. That's incredible. Like that is such a ceiling breaker moment. And I know through our relationship, you have been told, you know, many times you face rejection many times. And for people that, as you know, in here, the listeners really care about how they communicate. How can we improve our conversations? Just bit by bit, time by time conversation by conversation. So I want to have a discussion with you. First, I want to take it on whenever you got told no, and when you're building it cosmetics in your living room, you're going on KBC, you're, you're doing all these things. You have to continue running to this doubt, continually running to am I just the crazy person? Am I out of my mind? Am I thinking I'm bigger than what I am? Am I in my, it's just so many crevices for doubt to creep in. So what was the conversation like? How did Jamie talk to herself from the beginning to how she talks to herself now? This might be one of my favorite questions I've ever been asked because I think that so many of us doubt ourselves out of our own destiny and like doubt ourselves out of our own potential and think that somebody else doesn't know is somehow an indication that our idea is not going to work or our business isn't going to work or we don't have what it takes. And that's not the case at all. And I think when you can learn how to change your relationship with rejection and knows you can change your entire life and the foundation of doing that is how you communicate with yourself about rejection and knows. And so you know for anyone right now who's listening who feels like they're stuck or they're in a season of setback or their idea isn't getting traction or they put their art out there and nobody's liking it yet or they or they keep their book idea and getting a rejection from publisher after publisher or their business just isn't getting traction. I am absolutely a billion percent sure Jefferson that other people's nose or rejections is no indication of the potential that it's going to work. And so for me you know I you know I was I thought I was in my dream job right so my whole journey to building a cosmetics actually started with the season of setback and I was anchoring the news I'd finally you know made my way to my dream job and I was like one day I'm gonna host you know my own show and one day you know I'll have Oprah I just thought there's things that I was working hard yeah and you did right with my podcast I've been so blessed with the Jamie Kernel Michelle podcast have Oprah as a very first guest and have Jefferson and Fisher on what yeah yeah but let's let's be clear you had Oprah on as your first guest so you you totally as a kid whisper to yourself yeah that would be my thing and now you've done it I mean I it's such an incredible realization that yes how you treat rejection is is everything it's everything and here's the thing is like I want to say really quick just anyone who has a whisper and maybe they feel like it hasn't happened yet sometimes it takes 40 years to happen but those whispers you have are trusting whether they're ones you've had as a little kid or you're having as an adult right now that you're supposed to you know make a change in your career or just speak up for the first time or raise your hand at work or share your idea and you know what sometimes it comes with rejection but you know I was I I'd finally I'd finally gotten hired in television news it was anchoring the news and I thought Jefferson like I'm in my dream job this is it this is it and what I didn't realize was I was about to enter a huge season of setback and self-doubt and you know I have a hereditary skin condition on my face called rosacea and it gets really bumpy really red sometimes it feels like sandpaper and I had been to tons of dermatologists about it and there's no cure and you know I tried all the things so anyways it was no big deal I was always able to cover with makeup and one day I was live on the air anchoring the news and I hear in my earpiece from the producer there's something on your face you need to wipe it off you need to wipe it off and I glanced down during the commercial break and I saw it was the makeup was breaking up almost like the way you imagine desert clay cracking and the red coming through so I each down went to cover it but it wouldn't cover and then I'm back live on the air for millions of people and I hear in my earpiece as I'm talking you know you're live on the air so you can't talk back but I hear on my earpiece it's still there it's still there and yeah that moment started this whole detour in my life and you know not only a season of what felt like a lot of set back and self-doubt because I would try every makeup product out there nothing would work right and listen I had no idea I would one day start to make a company I'm just there in this career that I think this is what I'm called to do and and every time then I would go live on the air I would still hear like okay it's still there Jamie it's still there and I started having a lot of self-doubt I'd be live on the air thinking thoughts like am I gonna get fired like am I costing the station ratings right now and I'll never forget and by the way what I know for sure Jefferson no matter if someone has faith or no faith I believe this in my whole heart it's a universal thing I really believe that the setbacks that happen in our life so often our setbacks are actually gods setups for what we're called to do next and and the step we're supposed to take next and the season we're supposed to go through next we just don't often know it at the time it just doesn't it's not so fun but I remember the moment I had this this whisper again like well if you can't find anything that works for you nothing will cover your skin and you're having all kinds of problems at work like what if you figure out how to create something you know because if you can figure out how to create something that works for you it's probably gonna help a whole lot of other people so I had that kind of knowing and now that I felt like came from my gut but my head was really quick to talk me out of it it was like oh but you've got no money you don't know anyone of the beauty industry who have no connections and I sat in that place between having that whisper or that gut feeling or that knowing that you know what if I do this what if I totally take a detour and launch a business and try to figure out how to solve a problem that I can't find a product to solve and and I one day just had this this overwhelming feeling that if I could do it that you know my whole life I had seen makeup ads on television and magazines they always use sort of like photoshopped images of models of flawless skin I'd never seen anybody with bright red bumpy rosacea saying buy this product and I kind of realized that even though I love those ads they always deep down inside made me feel like I wasn't enough and one major Jefferson on the news desk I got this like big aha moment this big feeling where I was like if I can figure out how to find great chemists figure out how to make a great product and it actually works what if I also put real people as models like every age shape size skin tone skin challenge like me call them beautiful and mean it what if there's something I could do that's way bigger than myself way bigger than a product where I could try to help shift the definition of beauty in the entire beauty industry for every little girl out there who's about to see those ads and start doubting herself to and every grown woman who still does so that kind of big why came to me that's what I made the decision to quit my job on my honeymoon flight with my husband on our honeymoon we wrote the business plan to it cosmetics got back quit our jobs port every penny we had into this thing and which wasn't a lot of pennies by the way we port everything we had into this and Jefferson just for anyone who needs to hear this like what I didn't realize is from the day we launched that business and went all in it would be over three years until we could even pay ourselves a penny but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of knows so every single expert or beauty retailer that I loved like Sephora or Ulta or QVC they all said no after no after no no you're not the right fit you need to use you know unattainable aspirational models they would say women won't buy makeup from images that look like what you're showing like my rosacea or real people because at the time it wasn't being done and I entered the season well you certainly proved them wrong yeah yeah yeah and I think it's to your point it was about learning how to communicate with myself about rejection and you know for the longest time like right now if everyone in your audience you can do this tool together right now every single person listening right now if you imagine yourself getting rejected or you imagine you know um uh feeling at something right now and without thinking about it you just think of the first thought that comes to your head when that happens if you imagine yourself getting rejected or failing um for me it was always oh I'm not enough there's proof I'm not enough and when I've asked this question you know in in in rooms before and have people shout out their first thought a lot of people shout out things like oh I should have even tried I'm stupid I you know what was I even thinking going for it a lot of people with the I'm not enough thing and whatever your first thought is about rejection or failure is your current definition of rejection or failure and this is really important because as human beings you know we're wired to avoid pain at all costs and so if we you know give a meaning to rejection or failure that's negative that's painful we're more more likely to be stuck and not go for things and you know what I did on my journey that was life changing in case the someone needs to hear this today is one day I just sat down and I was like I'm getting so much rejection everybody is saying no and every time this is happening I'm telling myself it means I'm not enough and I'm so close to giving up but when I get still or pray about it like I know I'm supposed to keep going and so I wrote out one day okay my current definition of rejection is I'm not enough but let me see what's actually true about rejection like what's a better definition that every time it happens to me I can replace it with that empowering definition of rejection so then able to keep going so that I can communicate to myself with this tool that empowers me every time I get knocked down instead of making me want to quit and so one day I just sat there and I wrote out new definitions and the key is you have to believe they're true so for me you know I wrote out you know rejection as God's protection and I believe that like I believe in my soul that God will block your value from people who aren't assigned to your destiny I believe that oh I like that I like how you put that yeah like that's one definition another one you know rejections redirection or or or rejection is is a victory because it means I'm one of the brave ones willing to go for it like most people just sit on the sidelines and don't go for it but like every rejection I'm gonna celebrate it because it means I'm one of the brave ones and so I started sort of creating this toolbox of definitions that I literally would believe so I you know I have a lot of issues in my life Jefferson I know as my friend you probably know some of them but one of them is not fear of rejection I virtually I virtually became fearless of rejection and failure and it was so key being able to communicate that way with myself was so key because every time I get another rejection from QVC who said you're not the right fit to present your products right and by the way we eventually became the biggest beauty brand in QVC's history but what a lot of people don't know is they said no for years and it was that ability to communicate with myself and just make a decision I'm going to assign this meaning to rejection I'm going to believe it's going to be a yes one day but right now you know I believe a rejection is God's protection which means the timing's not right yet you know you just assign the meaning Z another great definition is oh I'm putting in the reps and one step closer to yes and putting in the reps and I think that you know we talk so much about cancel culture I think that you know the single greatest cause of cancel culture that nobody talks about is us canceling ourselves before we even try and when you learn to communicate with yourself around rejection or failure and just go for it it can literally single-handedly change the course of your life your dreams your career your job who you end up as in a partnership with it can change every part of your life this episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth you know if you listen to my podcast I love Cozy Earth why because they make quality products they make premium products from their bedsheets to their towels to their clothes that they have on I wear them all throughout the week because their stuff that actually works and if you're somebody who likes Cozy Earth I'm going to ask you to go to cozy earth.com slash Jefferson used to go Jefferson get up to 40% off this cozy earth.com slash Jefferson used to go Jefferson for 40% off if you're like me and you like cozy comfortable things especially with fall not coming on you need to go try out cozy earth that's so good I feel like we should say thank you for listening wonderful episode. I'm so proud of the product Jefferson. Yeah well there's so many things that unpack in that and so where I want to or I want to take it real quick is we my audience really likes very practical things you know practical strategies yeah but I'm picking up from you is what you found to work for you is reassigning redefining like new definitions of what rejection is. Yes. Instead of seeing rejection as a no you just you you are editing your dictionary to what if you had to look it up find the page find the R go down R E and find the word rejection you're going to within your own life have a totally different definition that does not see it as a setback but something that is only part of your your stepping stone your your journey so redefining exactly what it means. Now I am curious on when you were when was the time that you really felt like you would got in the product going and you made your first ask and you got your first nose what year was that? So we launched in 2007 yeah and then and then it was in 2010 so it was about three years of hundreds and hundreds of nose and they ranged from retailer saying no to you know I had a potential investor who I really thought was going to be our saving grace because we were so close to bankruptcy for years which a lot of people don't know that we were just like barely alive like yeah on the dream yeah right which is which is what most entrepreneurs are I mean you they are they are it's the passion that pushes them forward so back in 2007 2003 I'm curious if we could go back in time yeah and talk to that Jamie well when you got the nose right then what did you say to your self because we're going to compare it later so the the conversation you would have with yourself of was it okay I need to I need to be better or oh my gosh am I doing the right thing now I have to imagine like what are the words of doubt that you had then yeah so I mean in the in the very most of my life anytime I have rejection or failure but also in the beginning of building this business it was almost always a version of yep there's proof again I'm not enough great things like this don't happen to people like me right like you know maybe my past mistakes and you know not you know doing xy or z is now showing up and great things like this don't happen to people like me and my family I mean there's so many things they're all a version for me of of you know oh there's proof again I'm not enough and yeah the rejections were so much I mean and you know a lot of times we'll quit after one no or 20 nose and we'll think oh maybe I was wrong maybe my gut or my intuition was wrong you know there's people that meditate and get a strong feeling and they think maybe that is wrong people that will pray and they're like did I hear God wrong right because nothing around me seems to be going right and and so you know one big moment that that really stands out to me is you know and I knew Jefferson I knew if I'm gonna have a shot I'm either gonna give up and quit or I'm gonna have to really change the way I communicate with myself and if I'm gonna keep going I'm gonna have to believe I'm gonna have to figure out how to believe this is gonna happen even when there's no proof around me that it's happening even when nobody seems to agree with me and I'm gonna have to believe it's gonna happen and the second part of it was I'm gonna have to believe I'm worthy of it happening because you know our self-worth can be our ceiling in almost every area of life and it's why I'm so obsessed with building self-worth it's why I'm so obsessed with you know as learning to believe that we're enough and believe we're worthy of our goals and dreams you know we all know someone who on the outside you're like oh that person's so great and they're amazing and you know she's so smart and beautiful and talented why is she with that person the treats are horrible and it's like yeah we can be confident in a lot of areas but if underneath all that we don't believe we're worthy of the thing right we can only our self-worth becomes our ceiling and and so for me it was sort of two parts it was learning to communicate with myself about all the knows but also learning to believe to make the decision to believe that that what I'm building and the outcome I'm hoping for is possible for me and also to believe that I'm worthy of it and it was a big journey because I would have big steps forward where I would just absolutely focus on okay I'm going to change the definition of beauty and the whole beauty industry and that felt bigger than myself that felt bigger than myself and so on all the days I would get knocked down I would remember that and then I would decide to really intentionally decide a new meaning for rejection so one time for example we were so close to bankruptcy and and we had gotten a call from a potential investor who was really well known in private equity firm and they got in hold of our product and loved it and I was like this is going to be huge right because all the retailers kept saying no all of them and I had this vision we're going to be on QVC one day but they kept telling me no and that I wasn't the right fit and and this potential investor I was like this is our saving grace very well known private equity firm they've they've taken a lot of pre-revenue companies and you know and and turn them into companies we all buy and the grocery store and big box retailers and I was like if they invest a you're not going to go bankrupt and be you know what if I can use their power their leverage to get us into all these stores the Q telling me no so so excited and we did meeting after meeting after meeting and we flew up for the final meeting we entered the diligence phase by the way which is you know where you're going to do deal you're going to do in a very close yeah very close and and we presented our whole product pipeline at the very end of the meeting and I'm sharing this story for anyone who's ever had anybody tell them they're not enough or give them a painful no you know I really was holding this investor on a pedestal at the time and the very end of the meeting his whole team was there they're amazing and he says to me you know congratulations you should be so proud this is a really really great product up but it's a no we're going to pass on investing in a cosmetics and I said okay can you tell me why because you know feedbacks usually again I'd heard no so many times and he got really still and he says do you want me to be really honest with you and I was like yes please and he sent to me he said I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight and Jefferson I remember in the moment I never actually felt any anger toward him but I felt like this lifetime of self-doubt and body doubt like fled through my body so it kind of felt like I was staring my own fear straight in the eye but when you said those words to me I'll never forget this because on the topic of how do we communicate with ourselves right and how it can change our lives when he said those words to me I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight I got this feeling in my gut like deep down inside that was so strong I can feel it right now and I'm thinking about it oh my gut that said he's wrong he's wrong and I felt it and I'll never forget Jefferson in the next I didn't hear from him again for six years but in that six-year window there would be times where all of a sudden his words of replay in my mind and two things that I would do just to be really practical I would I would literally imagine myself with a giant like radio dial like a volume dial turning down the volume on his words and turning up the volume on that knowing I felt in my gut that said he's wrong and then the second thing I would do is I would just remind myself you know and I have several definitions of rejection that I usually apply but in that case I would just tell myself okay rejections God's protection he's blocking my value from that investor because for some reason he's not assigned to my destiny I'm going to choose to believe that instead of feeling like I'm not enough it's never going to happen I'm going to be like thank you because something better is coming and and just to tell you one quick thing for everyone listening because sometimes we don't see the upside of things till way later sure yeah six years later right we had gotten a shot on QVC and we had grown and grown and grown and you know built to over a thousand employees and had gotten into all these retail stores that were saying no and so much had happened and the day that L'Oreal bought our company and y'all we were so close to bankrupt for years right all of a sudden fast forward you know it was about an eight-year window all-in of doing like hundred-hour weeks and working so hard but it was really applying these tools that made such a big difference eight years later L'Oreal's buying our company and the night before the deal I learned that they're they have to disclose the purchase price and my family did not know I mean they knew we were okay maybe at that point but like nobody knew how big the company had grown and so the day that they bought the company it was everywhere it was on the homepage of the lost regional it was everywhere L'Oreal buys it cosmetics for 1.2 billion dollars cash and there's all these articles Denny's waitress becomes billion dollar entrepreneur a first email CEO that was the first time I heard from that investor in six years and and he called and said congratulations on the L'Oreal deal I was wrong and on the big way I'm so funny I'll never forget that moment because the first thing I thought was oh my gosh like rejections God's protection for one had he believed in me back then I probably be on some diet I probably would who knows if I could have built this company that was reclusive of everyone but also I remember when he said that I remember the do you remember the one the movie Pretty Woman where where she goes in the store and they won't help her and then she was back like a few days later so when I wanted to say to him was big mistake huge yeah I mean you know like 0.2 billion reasons why it's a huge mistake but I didn't I kept it classy because I I wouldn't have wanted to be honest it's just like another tool I think these experiences we all have maybe even we look back on a relationship and we're like thank goodness that didn't work out even though we really wanted it to work out and we just look back and we start shifting our belief around what is what rejection really is and then leaning on that and I feel like it can really be a tool you know for every part of our life before we keep going I want to take a second to tell you about a sponsor of this podcast and that is a sponsor that I use almost every day 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communicating as a woman and I'm asking this carefully with the full acknowledgement I am not one right so I hit a lot of questions of how as a woman how do I communicate something without sounding aggressive without sounding you know like I am a certain way why I am being too much I'm being dramatic I am trying to take up space and and barging in now how do you find for the the woman who's listening right now or driving or walking or working out that is saying how do I speak with confidence and speak assertively and not worry about what everybody else is thinking in your experience how do you handle those situations being a female CEO the most important thing is to make the decision that you're going to commit to you learning your worthy of your voice of saying what you mean of saying how you feel you know so many of us myself included but a lot of women were really raised to dim our light and to you know if you think about it and and this is very now traditional in in the past but still this wavering much so is that women will bond over problems and be very self deprecating like oh my pants don't fit or this happened in me or this but we're not trained you know we're not comfortable sharing our wins and and and being extremely confident without somehow telling ourselves the story that it's arrogant or that will be excluded if we shine and I think number one is realizing how how much that doesn't serve us or our daughters or our granddaughters and and making the decision to really almost do a quick audit of you know gosh do I share my beliefs do I say what I really mean or do I kind of dim my light to make everyone else feel good you know am I comfortable celebrating my victories and what I'll say Jefferson that's a great kind of tool to go from never wanting to celebrate your own wins which a lot of women are comfortable with that to actually getting to a place where you believe you're worthy of that or you're worthy of being a CEO or of leading a team or of speaking your truth or of sharing your opinion or of tomorrow hopping on the team's zoom and raising your hand and sharing your idea so many of us hold back right and a big a big sort of tool to get unstuck especially as a woman is to realize that by doing it because we always have to get outside of ourselves because we are so trained dim our own light and to shrink into place small because a lot of us get rewarded for that our whole life right and and to get out of that I think the the greatest single tool is to say okay I'm going to share my idea I'm going to cast a vision for our whole team I'm going to say what I really mean I'm going to speak up I'm going to celebrate my win because by doing that it's actually setting an example and giving permission to other women to do it right whether it's our daughters our granddaughters our nieces our grandmothers right so often we have to see examples of things to be able to do it and I think one of the greatest tools to start doing it to start communicating more confidently and believing your worthy of leading is to is to make it bigger than yourself as well and be able to do that and that's one thing and then you know the second thing that I will say for every person man or a woman part of how we grew this business in our living room and it got bigger and passed almost every single beauty company in the country in terms of size and sales and all that was you know having a mission that was so clear that that customers really felt that brand was for them but then in terms of as a boss and a leader in a CEO really having a clear vision and purpose where every single person in our company knew why they were there and what our mission was and how every single part of the job they're doing is purposeful toward that mission we would have signed on every single person's desk where we had our customer in the middle but we had our pillars of why we're doing what we're doing and the impact we were having and trying to shift the definition around inclusivity in the whole beauty industry and around how to you know we truly believe every person's beautiful so our you know our brand wasn't about oh change who you are it was about who you are as a knife and if you love having fun whether it's with your clothes or fashion or throwing on makeup or whatever like let's celebrate who you truly are and so we had our mission really really clear and what's interesting Jefferson friendly but he out there running a business or a team or leading one of our secret weapons I was able to hire so many people away from other companies that brought incredible knowledge and often they would take a pay cut and the reason why was they didn't feel like they had any idea of what their real purpose and meaning was where they were at they didn't feel like there was a north star they didn't feel like what they were doing mattered or was seen or valued it didn't feel like they were fulfilled and and so I think one thing we did really well in terms of communication that was really a big secret weapon inside the company was I mean it was we were unremitting about making sure everyone knew like this is why we're here this is our mission this is this is our north star as a company and every single thing you're doing to contribute to that is so valuable and so we created this culture you know the company was called it is called it cosmetics and people started talking in it language like I mean it could be the accountant or you know our our guy who was heading operations or someone in customer service it didn't matter they would write emails like make it a great day and it was always capitalized and everything became it everything and you know people our customers took on this whole new language of I'm a it girl I'm a it guy I'm a it mom I'm a it survivor and so we've donated tens of millions dollars to women facing the effects of cancer but you know it just took on this whole thing all from how we communicated not just with our customers but also internally about what the vision was and it seems so simple but it's amazing to this day even with with the podcast right when I get people applying to my podcast to work there it's because they're just not sure what the purpose is and the one that they're working at now they don't feel like a clear a clear vision and so I think you know the work that you do is so important right now um because how someone communicates whether it's with themselves or in this case with their team can literally change everything it can be it can be how you retain employees it can be how you get employees from from other even bigger more successful companies to actually want to work for you because they feel alive again without communication about the North Star and the purpose people lose hope and they don't feel alive and they don't feel the day when they're at work before we keep going I want to take a second to tell you about fabric by Gerber life you know what gives me peace of 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certain states prices subject to underwriting and health questions and now back to the episode you've been in the room with a lot of big business CEOs people have a lot of influence people who have a lot of wealth and these you know kind of the room where it happens type of scenarios what have you picked up on on how business leaders communicate some of these people who are extremely successful what kind of communication habits have you have you seen or some that you've picked up on yourself so two things come to mind that I see as patterns across and I feel so blessed Jefferson and I think you and I can connect on this and and also maybe so many people listening like some of the people I mean I was sitting in my living room you know and I was working so hard to wait for said Denny's you know so so when I made rooms like that or when I have some of the most incredible people in the world on my show including you I really am aware of how blessed I am but I also I do look at patterns and pattern recognition and I would say two things that I think are really big the first the first and this might surprise people I don't care who it is and I I've met a lot of people at this point every single one of them still actually struggles with self-doubt every single one of them and I think that's really important to call out because for the person who's watching and listening to us right now who might think that because they have self-doubt they're they're disqualifying themselves from their dreams or they're thinking stuff's not possible for them or they couldn't one day run the company they're working for or they couldn't one day have healthy relationships in their family or whatever it might be the thing that I've learned is I used to think I was alone in self-doubt or that something you know and I used to try to hide it and I think the thing that I know now be on a shadow of a doubt interview after interview on my show it doesn't matter who it is every single person has talked about their own feelings of self-doubt or feelings of being unworthy and I think that you know learning how to navigate through those by things that you teach um you know and I hope I teach in the book worthy and on the podcast is like the way you communicate with yourself and the tools that you can use so I think this is really big because you know I could say oh all these people have something that we don't have but really I think the most important thing is to say oh wow they all have self doubt too and that means that you know the things I hope for in my own life are possible for me too the second thing that that that comes to mind in a big way in terms of pattern recognition is that with this idea that energy is contagious the thing I've seen is that some of the most successful people in the world whether it's in business or thought leadership or in a public role of some sort they're really good about about making sure they have a circle around them that is I don't know how to say it other than vibrating at a really high positive level versus a circle where there's negativity or you know gossip or things that are that that pull you down and they're very protective about it and you know I think that when all of us think about the people we have around us and like some of you know some of the people we're not going to be like oh my mom is really negative peace out mom like you know but like you know some people we just need to learn okay because we can either have a close circle around us or are the people around us more like a cage and I think asking ourselves okay let me see how does it feel in my body when I think about the people that are around me my closest people who I share what happened in my day who I share when I'm feeling down who I share when I have a great big idea or a big win and we think about those people we share those things with how do they feel in our body do they empower us do they tell us the truth even when it's hard but do they believe in us do they truly want the best for us you know just being around them do we leave the room and we feel like I feel like I'm you know energized or do we feel like like depleted you know like like down like oh I went into that conversation believing this idea and now I feel like maybe I don't have what it takes or you know and really paying attention to that feeling because a lot of us instead of having a great circle around us we we have more of a cage and you can change that like even as an adult you can you know love people but maybe from a new distance maybe they're in your outer circle and you really think about making a few new friends as an adult or bringing mentors even mentors online you may never meet like Jefferson Fisher your favorite people bringing them into your inner circle me like who how do I want to spend my time in a way that really elevates me and you know there's a thing called emotional residue Jefferson if and if and this is important this is a great tool actually super practical for anyone listening if you think about when you eat a cheeto how it leaves orange on your fingers or if you drink like a blue slurpee and your tongue is blue yeah some cheeto pups a bag of cheeto pups hate to see me coming yeah yeah well that's residue we can see but when you're around people and then you leave a room they'll leave an emotional residue on you and you can feel it and so start paying attention to that and saying how does that feel and does in my body does that feel like joy does it taste like freedom you know or is it the opposite and you know when you ask about some of the most incredible people I feel so blessed to to be in rooms with as are you by the way that's the big thing I notice is they do a really good job of curating the people around them not having yes people around them nothing like that but but people in their inner circle even in their personal life that they can really trust but that really want the best for them that really want to see them do so well and that tell them the truth and I think that's really really important Jamie I love that what a this has been so nice what a wonderful reset I always like to of course as you know I do my one two three's with conversations and this is what I've picked up for us is number one when it comes to the conversations you have with yourself especially when you run into rejection you run into those you need to reassign relable redefine what the word rejection means to you Jamie has an awesome tip for that and that is to actually write it down I don't it maybe you need to find a dictionary near you and mark it up and redefine exactly what rejection is I love what Jamie has about that sometimes just God blocks people from senior value they're not meant to be they're not meant to be in your destiny they're not going where you're going is what I like to say I absolutely love that too find your north star when you're in difficult conversations with people and you're afraid you're gonna say something wrong that's not the right question the right question is in my following my north star that's always gonna point you in the right direction and three what you say is often a determination of the words that you hear that means you need to increase your circle in a positive voice around yourself with people who give you positive energy positive influence how how do we do Jamie is that how we feel on that one so good so good the so much of what you teach is I know exactly where my book is so my wife's been reading it's right above her her laptop in the bathroom we have this little build out where she has a little thing she has opened right now I thought I was about to get it but yeah I love it she has right there yeah it's it's a wonderful wonderful book so let me listen for everybody right now I want you to go get the book worthy it's got the shiniest coolest cover you've ever seen so everybody's gonna be asking what what is that Jamie where else can everybody find you I get again the Jamie Kern Lima podcast fantastic I love it I've been on it and it was just it's probably one one of my favorite podcasts experiences that I've had to date uh where else can we find you well our conversation is incredible and when you're on my show just like when you do anything the emails that flood in the DMs the messages um you are truly blessing so many people and I told you this on my show I said I know you're anointed to do this and I am just so honored as your friend and I think everyone listening and watching will join me in doing this they in celebrating you and the gift that you are and the tools that you share and I meet people everywhere that talked about uh things that they've picked up from you that have really impacted their life and so um I just want to celebrate you for a minute and also Sam so grateful you've come on my show and we have another another part of our another episode coming out soon with you so um so and I left our conversation just like floating I was like it was it's so good because I know everyone it was the longest podcast I've been on and it was also the shortest I felt like it was like our conversation yeah it was just a few minutes yeah so I would say that's the best spot the Jamie Kern Lima show podcast and you know I think um when we talk about people creating their circles when one thing that is beautiful about technology now is you can you know listen to Jefferson show or or or the Jamie Kern Lima show for free and have this energy around you because a lot of us maybe don't have that in our family or in the group or around their work or whatever and so it's just a beautiful way and um and I'm just honored to be here and and pour into everyone who gets to be blessed by you and just be part of it and celebrate you Jefferson and um and I loved our episode so I'm excited for that to come out to you on my show and uh in great all to be here today with you and congrats on your new book and just all of it thank you Jamie thank you so much Jamie Kern Lima uh I can't be more grateful to to know you as a friend and to have you as a guest on whichever's official podcast thank you for coming thank you