I ran out of the room in tears. So, the little girl had been kidnapped by a stupender and buried alive. Her little finger had poked out of the bag trying to get air. She died in the back, underground. The Menendez brothers, that's a cold, bloody killers or abuse victims. When they were first tried, I didn't believe the abuse. O.J. Simpson. Scott Peterson. Welcome back to The Belfed Pod where authenticity trumps authority. Now, today's guest, she does not know, but I stalked her because she is so interesting. I got to watch her analyze the case of Natalia Rose. She's been at cases such as Scott and Lacey Peterson, O.J. I mean, Kobe Bryant, I saw. This woman is so interesting and I am so, I'm like fan-garling over here. I am so excited to welcome Beth Kraus to the show. Welcome to The Belfed Pod. Well, thank you for having me. You did a little bit stalk me, but not really. I mean, you just really wanted to talk to me. Don't rest me. Don't like, don't like, don't like. No, you wanted, you did want to interview me and I was like, okay, we'll make it happen. Yeah, I appreciate it because my background, I was telling you before, I actually have a master's degree and an undergraduate degree in criminal justice. Oh, good for you. Yeah. Right. I did not pursue that. I did not like criminal law in law school and about I would never practice criminal law. And that's all I've done. And I'm like, here you are, you analyze that. I mean, how does one, so my question, forget these cards, how does one become a criminal analyst and then go on TV? That's, I have to know. So I think, you know, I was just kind of in the right place at the right time because when I got into it, there were not a lot of lawyers on television yet. There were not a lot of platforms. There was no social media. Yeah. And I started in television on the third anniversary of Court TV. So it was the only game in town to see a trial. There were no streamers. I mean, it was, it was the only place to go. So I happened to know the man who started Court TV because he had written an article. He was a writer, trained as a lawyer, but was a journalist. He owned a bunch of legal magazines and newspapers around the country and the national one is called the American lawyer. And he wrote an article about the criminal justice system in the late 1980s. Wow. I was practicing law just a few blocks from where we are seated right now in lower Manhattan. And I was up to my eyeballs in cases. I was only a third year assistant DA, but I was just one of 500 in Manhattan alone. And I happened to be the person selected for him to follow around the office and into court and to watch me. And he ended up writing this article cover story of American Lawyer about me. But that launched me. It was my 15 minutes of fame, but I mean, I stayed in touch with him and he asked me to come to the network and audition and I became a reporter in 1994. That is incredible. And then eight years as a prosecutor. Yeah. I had been in the DA's office for eight years, four years doing street crime and four years prosecuting political corruption and organized crime and sort of white collar stuff. Yeah, which I'm sure, you know, like when I think of my dream was like, I wanted to go and be a litigator. That was like the biggest thing becoming a litigator. And I was going to defend everybody. That was like what I thought, you know, like the next Aaron Brockovich, I'm going to be like this prominent attorney. But, you know, as a prosecutor, that I feel like that's really hard. That's difficult because you kind of just have to like, I feel like it's you have to keep it even keel. You have to present the facts, right? It's you have to present beyond a reasonable doubt. So what is that? I mean, is that like conflicting morally for you mentally? I mean, how do you separate that? Not at all. I consider myself more of a victim's advocate. And so I took a lot of pride in my work as a prosecutor and my heart is still in that, even though, of course, I do believe the system makes mistakes. And there are people who are wrongfully convicted. But, you know, some people would say, and defense attorneys would beg to differ with you about it being difficult. They think, you know, prosecutors, they have the strength of, you know, the police departments, the backing of the state or whatever, you know, departments to help them gather the evidence. And they simply have to present the evidence as opposed to defending against it and trying to poke holes in it and showing where the Constitution was violated and rights were violated. So, you know, look, 95% of cases plead out, they don't even go to trial. You know, we are not in the business of arresting and prosecuting innocent people, but it does happen. Yeah, for sure. And I'm sure morally or sometimes, look, we're all humans at the end of the day. And I'm sure sometimes you come across or you have, you came across in the past, maybe somebody that did commit a crime, maybe they did. And it was for a variety of reasons. I'm sure as a prosecutor, you're presenting the evidence you know in your heart, maybe this person can get another chance. We all make mistakes. It's a difficult task. So, yeah, and you can give somebody a break with a plea offer or a recommendation of a lower sentence, even if it's a top count, plea or conviction. So, you can, you know, show some mercy. But I always, well, my old boss, Robert Morgenthau, the late, great Robert Morgenthau, who was in office here in Manhattan for 35 years, he never made us try a case in that we in our heart didn't believe in. Oh, that's so I mean, there are some cases that are close, right? It's like, well, I think you probably did it, but I don't know if we have the evidence. And I remember some of my colleagues not feeling like they could get up in front of a jury and say with conviction, you know, that you need to convict this person. So he would never make you try it if you didn't believe it. Oh, what a great man. That's amazing. Yeah, it was a good great man. Yeah. So let's talk about Casey Anthony. Are you allowed to talk about Casey Anthony? Sure. Because that was, I mean, I remember when that happened. I was, what year was I think I was in college then it was a huge thing. It happened in 2008. So I was getting my master's degree at UCF right down the street from what had happened and you were there. Yep. I started showing up in Orlando in 2008, 2009, 2011 there through the trial. I just remember Casey, once she got locked up, she was charged with murder before Kaylee's body was found. She was charged in October. And they were seeking, well, they didn't seek death at that point. Once the remains were found a few months later in December, then they said change circumstances were going to seek death, which made it probably more difficult for them because, you know, they lost the prosecution, lost the case anyway. But, you know, jurors are going to be really tough on you if you are seeking to take someone's life. So, you know, I always felt that she was complicit in something. She got convicted of misdemeanors, right, lying to the police. That was a no brainer. But I always felt like she knew something more. I never bought the, she drowned in the pool. And the dad. And my father, you know, found her now. No, I don't think so. And I remember, I remember when that happened because my daughter was born and I just remember thinking like, no, this is weird. Like no mom acts like this is bizarre. Her whole reaction. I don't even know what happened to her. She did. She's still around. I mean, she's, I actually haven't kept up with her, but she's still around. I remember, I remember hearing that at one point she wanted to have a child. I don't think she had any other children, but she's around. I don't think she should have any. She's taking some political positions, sort of, you know, liberal positions on some matters. Wow. Now, what really interests me is this case. So do you, first of all, do you get to meet the people that you're analyzing ever? Do you get to have conversations with them? Sometimes when I was doing, when I was at court TV for 19 years, I would, of course, I got to know lawyers always. And, you know, sometimes interview jurors, witnesses, not always a defendant, sometimes a defendant, depending upon if the person was locked up or not. Yeah. So you, so where I saw you that I was like blown away is this case of, I mean, the case in itself was, it was the craziest story I'd ever heard in mind. I mean, I've tried to look her up to just like to find out what happened after. So did you ever get to meet her? No, I haven't met her. We've communicated, but I haven't met her. Yeah. What was your take on all of that? So, you know, during the three seasons, this was a story that kept unfolding. We thought it was going to be one season. And then we thought it was going to be two seasons. Yeah, I saw, I watched it. And then the man just called with after we delivered season two. I watched all of it. They called and said, we're done with her. This girl's tweaking or whatever. We're like, what? I guess we got more of the story to tell. And there were times when the producers would learn something and they wouldn't tell me in advance. I'm sitting down for an interview because I sat down for many interviews for each season. Yeah. It wasn't like a one interview that stretched over six episodes. It would be maybe four, right? Four. And they would give me a document. They're rolling on me and I'm reading it and I'm learning something new, some new development because it was an unfolding story. It wasn't most stories we tell are into past, right? Rarely are we telling like an ongoing story because we're not doing news, but this was an ongoing story. So my reaction on air is very genuine. I'm like, what? What did you just say? I mean, I mean, like, and I would be so expressive, you know, but because I was genuinely reacting to new information. They did that to me on purpose. Oh, so where is she now? I know she was living in upstate New York, but I don't believe she's here anymore. What a, just the whole story was insane. She was re-aged living by herself at what, 12 years old? Younger. She was about nine when she was on her own. In an apartment that is designed for an able-bodied person of like a regular height, not a little person. So she's nine, hard enough for a nine-year-old who doesn't have a disability because she had a type of dwarfism that, or she needed surgery, you know. So the sink is high, the stove is high, everything's high, and she doesn't have, she has no education, she has no training in cooking for herself, personal hygiene. Can you imagine a nine-year-old child on their own in an apartment? No, you're like my son, never. No way. Well, that's what happened to her. She can only make yogurt. She's been re-aged in the federal system. They brought her back to her original birth date of 2003, the year 2003, but not in the state of Indiana. Not yet. They still say, you know, in the records that she was born in 1989. The judge just backed her up to 1980, which means the biological mother that we found, well, the authorities found in Ukraine. Yeah. If she had Natalia in 1989, would have been like, I think I did the math, something like 10 or 12 or something. That is, that, wow. I mean, that case in itself. So you, that was a crazy one. And then Jodi Arias, you did some. Yeah. I did Jodi Arias's case. Actually, she was tried twice because the second trial was a retrial of the penalty phase. The state of Arizona sought death against her, but you only get two shots at the death penalty in Arizona. And if you miss it both times, it's a, the judge decides a natural life sentence. So she's in prison in Arizona. That was pretty wild. Like some people feel like Jodi Arias's case was the first one to really like explode on social media. I don't know. It is one of the first. That was 2013. One of the first. I mean, Twitter had been around since 2005. Facebook was established around 2004. But I remember I was tweet, it was Twitter then. I was tweeting during the trial as well as reporting outside, but I'm sitting in court and my tweet and my followers just exploded. So I noticed it during that trial and social media went crazy on the defense witnesses. Domestic violence expert was, she was doxxed and harassed and one star ratings on her book on Amazon. Even though people never, they didn't read it. They just gave her one star ratings to the point where she had a panic attack. I had to go to the hospital the night before testifying. And then your job in this is just to report on it. Yeah. I'm not a straight reporter, straight reporter, not a pining about anything. I have a little more wiggle room today because I'm not a straight reporter so I can actually opine. Now, when you do report on it, what did the lawyers say? Did they get annoyed? Because I think you just presented, I mean, when I watched you, you just presented the facts. Yeah, I'm just presenting the facts. No, no, the lawyers were always very gracious with me. I've never found I had any problems with the lawyers. And in fact, they would tell me, look, you speak to us on a level that other journalists don't because you used to be in the trenches, you used to be a trial attorney. So I also didn't need to necessarily ask them questions that other reporters might. I could go outside and get on the air and say, okay, so that objection that the defense just made and the judge overruled, here's why. I could explain it. Which makes it so much easier instead of just kind of reporting and not having the full story. And that is exactly why I was so interested, because you were explaining both sides. You spoke on both ends. You're like, well, here's this side. And you can also see it on this side. And I guess that would run along the same thing with O.J. Simpson. You know, I was at O.J. He had three trials. Yes, I know. L.I.'s murder, Miami Road Rage, Las Vegas Hotel. So I was at Miami and Las Vegas. I had just started. In fact, when I gave my resignation letter to Robert Morgenthau down the street, it was May 1994 with my start date at Court TV of June 27th, 1994. In between those dates, O.J. got arrested. Smart. Yeah. So I was brand new. And so I wasn't assigned. I had to learn television. So two other reporters went out to L.A. and covered his trial. Geez, got to love. Who doesn't love O.J.? I can't. All right, let's have a little fun. Are you ready? So I'm going to name some of the most controversial cases. You tell me guilty or not guilty based on the evidence, not the verdict. And why? Are you ready? Oh, wait. Oh, okay. Oh, no. Okay. If I can't answer, I'll just hack an answer. Just saying, yeah, I'm not going to answer. All right, Casey Anthony. Did she murder Kaylee? Not clear she actually murdered her, but she knows more than she ever admitted. Yeah. O.J. Simpson, criminal trial. Did he kill Nicole Brown in Ron Goldman? Yes. This case is out of control. Robert Blake. Did he kill his wife, Bonnie Lee Blake, Bakley? Unclearly behind it. He was behind it. I agreed with the jury when they said we couldn't put the gun in his hand. He wasn't charged as an accomplice. He was charged as the actual shooter, but it's hard to believe he didn't have something to do with it. It's always right where there's smoke, there's fire. Scott Peterson. Did he kill Lacey in their unborn son Connor? Yes. Yeah, definitely. Especially if you've seen that. Kobe Bryant, rape accusations. Oh, I love Kobe. Oh, boy. So like it was consensual up to a point. This accuser knew there was a risk going to his room, wanted his autograph, kissed him, and then things got out of hand. So, you know, if you believe her story, yeah, he raped her, but it's a he said, she said, and she crumbled. They did a mock cross examination. That's why they dismissed the charges. She crumbled in a mock cross examination, apparently. So she wouldn't have been able to stand up to cross examination, even if it's true. That kills me. I listen, I think it's terrible when women get raped, but I also think it's terrible when you throw that word around. Yep, I agree. I think it's awful. Like the Bill Cosby thing that killed, I don't like that. Phil Spector, did he murder Lana Clarkson? Yes. Drew Peterson, did he kill his third wife? Well, his third wife is the one he's in prison for. The fourth wife is the one who was missing, Stacey. So his third wife, yeah, that's the one he was convicted of. I believe he drowned her in the tub. The fourth wife is Stacey. She was probably carried out of the house in a blue barrel and she, yeah, he probably did. Yeah, I think there's definitely something going on. Amanda Knox, guilty or wrongfully convicted? Wrongfully convicted. Oh, okay. The Menendez brothers, that's the cold, bloody killers or abuse victims. When they were first tried, I didn't believe the abuse allegations, but today I do. Okay, I've since educated myself, learned more. I was a prosecuting attorney when they were, I was down the street in court. I wasn't following the trial and I was like, oh please, but I have totally changed and I do believe that they were abused. I do too, because it's not just one brother. What's the statistics that two brothers felt the exact same way about their parents? Like, I don't know, I'm not a lawyer, but I just feel like if it's just two. I mean, they've served a lot of time. I don't know if they'll ever get out, but if they were to get out, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. It would be okay. Yeah, if you could retry one case with new evidence or a different jury, which case would it be and why? Of the case I've covered or with a different jury, which case would it be and why? You know, this would be a case I covered. Years ago, I covered a case in Springfield, Missouri. And it was a teacher, a man charged with killing his wife and his six year old and toddler, like a one or two year old, bashed his son's head in, strangled the toddler with the drape cord, bashed his wife and turned the heat up on the water bed posing her so she decomposed faster. Great. And then went back to the teacher's conference that he was at, which was some hours away. So he did it in the middle of the night. It was the allegation. And I just, well, I don't know that they had enough evidence because a crucial witness kind of fell apart. But I always felt he got away with murder. He was acquitted. And I talked to the jurors afterwards and they said, you know, he probably did it. We just didn't think there was enough. That's a case that stayed with me. I don't know if it was retried. It would ever have been a different result. But I felt like he really did get away with murder. That's awful. So did OJ. The first time he did too. It's terrible. It's really terrible. OJ got away with murder. His life was really pretty bad after that, but he was free. Have you ever had like an emotional attachment to a case? Yeah. Well, I actually broke down once, but it was outside. It wasn't in court. A little girl had been kidnapped by a sex offender from her father's mobile home and raped and buried alive in double Florida. It was in northern, northwest Florida, like south of the Panhandle, Indian River County, maybe or something. Anyway, he was tried in Miami, but when the media was shown the photos that the jury saw weren't displayed to the courtroom and we did not put them on TV, but they laid them out. And when I saw her in the back, her little finger had poked out of the bag trying to get air. She died in the in the back underground. That I ran out of the room in tears. That's awful. So. Wow. That is insane. So, what's next? Are you doing more? Are you out of say? So, I'm very excited. All sorts of things. All right. So, I did three seasons with investigation discovery of the curious case of Natalia Grace. And as a result of that, I got a spin-off show called the Curious Case of, we're in season two right now, airing. It's on investigation discovery on Monday's episode five. We'll come out on February 16th at 10 o'clock, 9 o'clock. Oh, dear. It's going to be an hour. I think it's 10 o'clock. But it also streams on HBO Max. So it all streams on HBO Max. The two seasons of Curious Case of and Natalia Grace. Then I am also hosting a podcast that's in development. It'll drop soon for Sony Music Entertainment. It's a true crime story. It's a six episode true crime story. Probably can't say too much more yet because it's not public yet. And I feel like there's more down the pike, but I can't talk about it yet. You're doing so many amazing things. February 20th, I'm on 2020. So I am a contributor to ABC's 2020. Is there anything you don't do? I haven't written a book. You haven't written a... No. I have a band with... I don't think I'm that good a writer. Who's going to read it? Who's going to read a book? I think people listen to your audiobook. I really find you extremely interesting. Really? Yes, I'm telling you. I'm not captivated by that many people, but yeah, I'm serious. I mean a lot of interesting people. I think just the way that you tell the story, I mean in itself, you're like your storyteller. I mean, and it's great. You have a gift. Not only are you like, you know, legally, you're professionally as far as like your background, but your storytelling ability is incredible. You're so kind. Thank you very much. I mean, seriously, I would not... I've never, ever stopped anybody. I'm like, we have to find that. Like we have... I would go, Kayleigh, I'm like, Kayleigh, we have to find her. I'm like, the way that she just like unfolded the story just kept me captivated the entire time that I ended up watching. I got involved with the show three seasons. I didn't even watch TV. Well, and it does grab you, Natalia Grace, right? Cause it's so crazy. I know one person I know, when she learned about it, she stayed up all night and watched it. That's what happened to me. That's exactly... I binge watched this whole thing and then my husband was like, there's more. I'm like, there's more. And I watched more of them. I was just watching all of it. It was so crazy. So now you just do the legal analyzing. You don't do any... Like you're not trying cases anymore or nothing. No, no, I'm not practicing. I'm still a licensed attorney, but inactive. I'm not practicing, but I kept licensed because it worked very hard to get that license. I wasn't giving it up. I love that. And it's a fallback, right? If this didn't work out, you know, the television stuff, I can go back and practice law. It's incredible. It really just watching you're such a boss and that's what Bill stands for. A boss I'd like to follow. I would follow you. I think I've really... Just an inspiration, maybe because I wanted to be attorney at heart, but just, you know, you took your skills. I love it. It's a people oriented business television. So you're able to connect with your audience. I love all of the exposure. And I mean, I like to see all these things too. So I'm watching this... Oh, what's the nurse from the UK? What's her name? Who's on trial? She... I think she's innocent. I don't know. They don't know. It's a big story right now. She was a nurse and all these babies died in the UK. Lambert... Oh yeah, okay. Yes. I did see that. I haven't been following it closely, but I gotta have to take a look. It is unbelievable. So she might actually... Be honest with it. She might. I think something's going on with the hospital. Something's weird. I don't know what. Something's strange. You have to watch. You can analyze that. Call them. Maybe I can... Yeah. Call them. So you're next gig. All right, deal. Where can people find you if they want to find you? So, isn't... I will admit I'm not great about social media, but I do have an ex account. It's just at Beth Karras and Instagram. I think it's at Beth Karras One and Facebook, LinkedIn. I mean, it's just my name. Nothing's special. Nothing Beth Karras TV or anything like that. Just my name. And then we'll see... I'm sure we'll see you. I know you already said 2020. I'm sure there'll be so many more amazing shows that you're gonna be on too. Well, we'll see. Oh, Investigation Discovery, HBO Max for now and 2020. You have a lot going on. A ton of things. I mean, if you did not enjoy today's episode, I don't know what you're doing, but I'm sure you love today's episode. So hit that like and subscribe. And you know what? If you didn't like it, you can unsubscribe as well. But if you want to see more interesting, I don't think as interesting. I think you're the most interesting. Stay tuned. We have a ton more episodes airing in the near future. But if you didn't get the message today, I mean, Beth is really a jack of all trades. She's a lawyer. She took that, went into television. I mean, just doing amazing things. And you know, my challenge for you is just be amazing. Think about something that you want to do and execute on it. It's never too late. Beth is doing incredible things, analyzing, meeting, I mean, just doing it all. So next time I look forward to seeing all of you guys back on the Belfod. Thanks Beth. Thank you.
