It's the locked on podcast network your team every day If the Green Bay Packers want to find a Malik Willis replacement in this draft there are plenty of options Jason Herschorn helps us hunt for Hasselbecks next You are locked on Packers your daily Green Bay Packers podcast part of the locked on podcast network your team every day You were locked on Packers part of the locked on podcast network your team every day I'm Peter Bacowsky and I cover the Packers for the leap I would love for you to subscribe to thanks to everyone who makes locked on Packers their first listen every day We hope you like starting your day with us as much as we like starting our day with you here on the locked on podcast network the number one sports podcast network Jason Herschorn America's guest my co-founder at the leap he joins us today on the show to talk about finding a backup quarterback because we often talk about receiver models and cornerback models and past rusher models and all of these thresholds and athletic testing numbers and statistical thresholds that the Packers seem to like when it comes to other positions we don't think about quarterback like that but it is like that at least in Green Bay and Jason has been at the front lines of this he has been the pioneer of this stuff when it comes to the quarterback position and what Green Bay likes to prioritize so we had the multiple pieces now at the leap explaining the methodology explaining some of the players go subscribe if you want to get more information but Jason and I are going to tease this out figure out what's going on with the quarterbacks in this draft it is a loaded draft on day three I think the Packers are going to take a developmental quarterback on day three even though Brian Goodkin said he likes Desmond Ritter and Kamau Kord okay that's nice but there are guys in this draft who could really be something as backup quarterback guys who could develop into something and let's not forget that we didn't touch on it Stephen Holder who covers the Colts named the Packers specifically as a team to watch when it comes to Anthony Richardson so if they make that deal this all becomes moot at least in this draft cycle so let's talk to Jason about day three quarterbacks mostly when it comes to the kinds of quarterbacks the Packers are going to target joining me now for what has become an annual tradition one of a slew of annual traditions that I have with America's guest and my co-founder at the Newspaper we would love for you to subscribe to Jason Hirshhorn you're here Jason to hunt for some Hasselbecks and this year was particularly I assume for you a big a big lift because there's actually so many quarterbacks qualify I want to dig into that part of this but let's start with the inspiration for this like why are we here and why did this become an annual series for you so when we think about the Packers drafting philosophy to put it broadly we do think a lot about like you know positional size and athleticism thresholds and those differ by position the one thing that had not appeared before at least not to my knowledge was some of these things for quarterback and there are plenty reasons to assume that they wouldn't have existed right like the correct position can come in all shapes and sizes you could have an uber athlete like Lamar Jackson play at the highest level and you can have someone who's barely more athletic than you and me also operate at a high level if they have enough other things like you know they drew breeze for example I mean I'm sure a better athlete than us but you know someone who is operating so much on like a mental and anticipatory standpoint that some of the physical limitations he had both in terms of arm strength and just like literal stature weren't really huge hindrances for the majority of his career so quarterback did seem like an anomaly in that regard but then you look at you go back in their history you say actually at least for these late round quarterbacks there are a lot of underlying similarities and they go along the lines of height the long lines of athleticism and experience and they're all things by the way the previous packers gms and the current packers gm have discussed at length and a certain level it makes sense like quarterbacks that go after the first round you know certainly after the first 100 picks these are quarterbacks that from an info perspective have a lot of flaws so if you're going to draft one of those guys and invest at least some amount of resources in him it probably makes sense that you want someone that's the best raw like think of clay that you can mold and again if you go back to 2005 the first year the Ted tops was the package gm and you go to the present every quarterback that they have drafted has met certain criteria in terms of their size their athleticism and their experience and then you can use those things to narrow down the list of quarterbacks and figure out if the packers gonna draft someone who it might be and it does make sense because if you just look at the arc of quarterback drafting history that the experience piece is a big one right like if you don't have 25 collegiate starts the hit rate there is even lower than what we think of it already as being right like we already think of quarterbacks in the draft as 5050 or worse prospects but in in in terms of like in experience quarterbacks it's like one in 100 hit and so it makes sense that if the packers are going to look for someone that could potentially start even developmentally that they're looking for these guys with experience you mentioned this a little bit in the piece and so I highly encourage people to go read the lead again a newsletter we would love for you subscribe to I wonder I wonder and I'm asking you to extrapolate a little bit and and you know maybe use some anecdote here but how do you think covid is impacting these numbers because it seems to me that covid and n i l could be playing a role as to why we're getting more experienced in the draft than we than we might normally see it definitely has there is no way around that now there are fewer of the covid quarterbacks lack of a better term in this particular class although there are still some and we do have some examples of that crazy that we're still we're still talking about covid quarterbacks I mean literally a quarterback from 2019 is in this draft class and attended the combo we're not talking about just like someone who's not going to have an NFL career by any stretch of the imagination so that is still there a little bit has not fully washed out in the past and I L across the board we're not just talking about quarterbacks has played a role now in the past if you had a let's just say a tight end who you know was had a familial background where they needed money and he could have stayed in college for maybe one two more years but even if he was going to be in a draft for Asia he was going to make some amount of money and it made sense for the family you would see cases of those players doing it you see much less of that now because in some of these cases the players can make more money in college at least for that initial year they would make for the duration of the rookie contracts and other cases it's well I could go to the NFL and be a draft like I know that's going to be the case or it could stay another year and worst case scenario be like the same kind of traffic as I would have been otherwise or maybe improve my draft stock and go from a guy who might have been a day three pick to you know some cases like a first round pick I mean Joe Burrow for example had he come out a year earlier by all accounts he would have been in like a non top 100 selection has a great final season LSU is the number one overall pick now that is an outlier situation for a lot of reasons but directionally it does indicate like experience does matter staying in college longer is easier to do financially because of NIL and because of the extra eligibility from COVID which again is still a factor in 2026 there's just more opportunities for these players to stay in college longer we also have an experience that I think is is more novel now and and correct me if you think I'm wrong on this but I look at someone like Kate Clubnick who makes the list early in his career before he transferred to Clemson he was someone that was like this guy's going to be the number one pick at some point in terms of like five star prospect and and the pedigree and all that stuff and the longer they stay in college the more we see the warts which may actually end up benefiting NFL teams because they see more data they see more tape and now we have actually a better understanding of what these guys are when they come out yeah in terms of the list and I'm not going to give all the names away but there are multiple quarterbacks who made it who entered college as like I four or five star prospects and we're not bad players like these are players who are expected to be drafted but they didn't hit their ceiling or conditions that were outside of their control like injuries played a factor in some cases there are multiple things that kind of limited them during their time in college but you see a lot of this now there are certainly cases of guys who were very lowly recruited or under recruited who end up developing into bigger places some cases they develop and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to bigger programs and then transfer to We've got more Jason coming up next on Locked on Packers. 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Don't forget to check out the everyday air club for ad free episodes and access to the group chat with me plus locked on Packers listeners. Locked on Packers dot supercast.com is the site where you can go sign up. And we also have it conveniently for you in the show notes. So tap the link to learn more. The athlete part of this is particularly interesting to me now. And we talked about this last year in, in view of what happened with Malik Willis and the way that his legs played such an important role in what he was able to bring to this team while he was filling in for Jordan love. And certainly I think played a role in the Miami Dolphin saying, Hey, we think this guy can can help our organization. I would, I would guess Johnnie Roxelvin is going to bring a lot of these same ideas with him to Miami when and if they eventually draft their future franchise quarterback as well. How does Malik Willis change the way you look at this particular group? Cause there are a couple of names I have in mind where I'm like, it's maybe the, maybe the success of Malik Willis makes them more open to some of these players. One of them in particular I'm going to ask you about, then, then maybe they might have otherwise been. I actually don't know if it changes it that much because Malik Willis as a draft prospect with someone who actually would not have quite qualified because of like he's, he's not like short, short, but he's a little under their, their height threshold. But, you know, other than that one factor, he checked off all the boxes from an athleticism standpoint. I know he didn't have like a crazy, crazy amount of experience at Liberty, but he wasn't simply like, you know, an eight game starter or something like that. Like he did have a decent amount of experience coming out. And obviously the NFL generally speaking agreed. It didn't work out well for him in Tennessee, as we all know, but put it in a different context and given the ability to lean into that athleticism more. That was a huge part of his success, not even just in 2024, but obviously even this year when he had to come in and play. So I think if there's an adjustment the Packers make, it's not so much in terms of what they're looking for as a quarterback draft pick. I think it's in terms of what they might do with that quarterback once he gets to Green Bay because you can incorporate some of those ideas. I mean, we've talked about the spinner series ad nausea. Like that's a great tool for some of these quarterbacks. Like some of these quarterbacks did those things in college. It's not even hypothetical. You saw tape of this quarterback or that quarterback actually performing a version of that. So it makes sense to apply those lessons in Green Bay should they arrive there. So the guy that I that I was thinking of when I was thinking of the Malik Willisby here is Taylor Green, who is 6'6, 227 ran 4'3, 6' and jumped 43 and a half inches in the vertical Broadjump 11-2. One of the most athletic quarterbacks to ever come through the combine a 9.99 relative athletic score. What is it about his profile? I mean, obviously the athleticism there, but also big arm. You put that clip in the piece. He's someone who I'm going, if you want the Malik Willis replacement, it's not one to one, but in terms of big arms, toolsy runner who has, you know, a long way to go. That seems like the most obvious one to one Malik Willis comparison in this draft class at least. He certainly makes sense in that regard. And the other thing that I think plays to his favor here is it's not just that he's a super athletic quarterback because the position is not just fine, great athlete put under center and expect success. There's a lot more to it than that. But he's a very experienced quarterback too. He had 49 game appearances in colleges, 43 starts. Obviously the extra year with COVID plays a role in that. But he has played a lot of football and I want to go back to what Brian Goudic had said about quarterbacks in general. I'm going to read the quote directly. It's included in the story. Quote, for me, I've always thought the amount of time and games you've played in college really does equate to some success at times. And that was part of a longer explanation about why he liked, you know, Sean Clever and some other guys coming out of college who may not have been as popular to the NFL in large. But he does value that experience. So it's not just that he's a tremendous athlete by any definition, a great athlete for any position. But he has a lot of experience at quarterback. And I think one of the things that could be interesting with him is let's say that you trapped it and let's say that two years in, it's just not working out a quarterback. Guess who could be a tight end for you or guess who could play another position for you totally realistically based on his size and athletic profile. Him. And there was a possibility that that was going to happen prior to his move to Arkansas anyway, because of Boise State. You know, it's a bit more of a Fugazi offense. There's there are some real concepts in there, but it's a lot more, you know, smoking mirrors. He, you know, there was still a little bit of that at Arkansas, but it was a lot more forecastable to the NFL. And I think that's why he really solidified himself as a draft prospect at quarterback, even if he does have the tools to plausibly switch positions. But he's a lot going for him. He's I think just one of the most exciting prospects in any position full stop that we expect to go on day three of the draft because there's so many different outcomes for him. In some ways, he actually reminded me a lot of Joe Milton coming out of college. He's a better athlete than Joe Milton, which is saying something because Milton himself was a tremendous athlete. But a lot of the same things that we're intriguing about Milton are also intriguing about Taylor Greer. Let's go back to Kate Clubnick for a second, because he was someone who I mentioned was seen at one point in his collegiate career as a future first round pick potentially, you know, top 10 kind of quarterback. What was it that that in your mind at least prevented him from getting to where he wanted to go? And what what could entice a team like the Packers to say we actually think there's more there with him? So I think this doesn't explain everything. But I think a lot of the reason why Clubnick and a lot of like the top Clemson offensive players and maybe this is true to certain degree of the defense as well, didn't maybe hit their apexes, you know, recruits going into college is because of what's been going on at Clemson in general. It is a blue blood program that operates very differently from virtually all the other blue blood programs in the modern era, which I mean, this is not a program that is heavily invested in transfers. This is not a program that operates as though it's, you know, 2026, 2025, 2024, like to a certain degree, Davos, we need the head coach there has operated a lot like he did, you know, the first, you know, five, 10 years as the head coach of Clemson. And that was perfectly fine at the time. I mean, they went to and won multiple national titles, but the game changed. And a lot of the things that, you know, you see in Alabama, you see at Georgia, you know, Ohio, St. All the big programs are almost all the big programs. They really have not materialized at Clemson. And then the other factor here that again is like circumstantial outside of the control of the player is for the most part, Davos, who he hasn't really gone outside of his coaching tree while he's been there. There's been a couple of exceptions, but even those exceptions basically had to operate as though they were like, you know, old Davos, Queenie assistants, like, you know, they brought in Gary Riley to run the offense. And he still basically had to run the offense that they had there before, not the one that Riley had run so successfully at TCU. There's a lot of these things where it's just like, Davos wants it a particular way. And for a long time that was great. And then it was very much not great. And they have not really pivoted off of that in a big way. And I think that's affected guys like Club Nick. So if it comes down to, do you think that there was more there for him that was underdeveloped at Clemson, but could be developed in the NFL? I think that's a guy you'd have to look at because there are plenty of reasons to think that in an NFL situation with, you know, a real professional operation running that offense that he could do a lot more at that level that he did in college. How high is the right range for this? Given the value we saw Malik Willis offer this offense and given where this team is right now in its build. Like, is there a, hey, if they find, you know, an X and a Y in the first two rounds, round four could make sense. Like, what is the sweet spot? Do you think with this class and this team given its build right now? So I think you could make the argument for it anytime on day three. I know that they have fewer, not DRETH picks at this point, but like they have less DRETH capital because of the Mike Apparison's trade. I still think it is the case though that it makes sense to, if you really do like one of these prospects and my guess is that they probably like more than one, that if he's there and you do not think you're going to have a chance at him outside of that pick, that you go ahead and pull the trigger because you may miss on a quarterback this year on day three. Most day three quarterbacks are misses, but the overall cost for a miss is very, very low, even if it is in the fourth round. But if these guys even hit a little bit, which I mean, they just become career backups, there's so much more surplus value in that. And I'm just meaning in the sense that like a veteran backup quarterback would cost so much more than a quarterback in a rookie contract, though that is true. It's, you know, what if Jordan Love misses two games this upcoming season, which by the way, is not atypical for him or for basically any starting quarterback. Like you can't assume that your starter is going to play every single game. It's just too violent of a sport. You know, this is no longer the days of Brett Favre where basically under any circumstance, he is going to be under center at the beginning of the game. You know, you have to have some kind of a plan. You don't need to over invest. You don't need to spend, you know, a second round pick and a backup quarterback. But having someone there with talent who, if you can't run the same offense, you can run an effective offense. Like we saw the past two years with Malik Welles. I think there's a ton of value in that. And then if you're able to develop one of these guys, you can turn them into draft assets. I mean, we just saw that in a way with Malik Welles when he signed with Miami Dolphins. And as we discussed in the article, like Matt Hasselback, Mark Brunel, Aaron Brooks, all of these quarterbacks turned into trade assets that returned meaningful draft capital to the team. Not just what they put in for that player, but even more. So I think they probably won't draft a quarterback in the fourth round. I don't think that's unreasonable though. And I would say just given the amount of names that appear to like make sense for them on paper, sometime in like round five, round six, really does make sense as like the sweet spot for them. Still more to get to with our pal Jason Hershaw. Next. The Packers changed receiver coaches. Noah Pauley is coming in to be the receivers coach and he was at North Dakota State with Cole Payton, who is in this draft. Now, he was not the quarterback at North Dakota State, but it would be in that building. How, if at all, do you think that would impact the Packers appetite? They are given that they would, they would presumably have more information on him than most of the players. I mean, give them some intel that they wouldn't necessarily have otherwise. So I'm not going to dismiss that out of hand. At the same time, Cole Payton only has, it's really where he has 52 game appearances. Only 14 starts though. He's, he barely made the list in terms of the experience, but you just don't have a lot of quarterbacks. There is that. And there's also the, he had to wait his turn and he had to wait his turn. There is that. And there's also the, he had to wait his turn. And usually in college nowadays, if you're a quarterback that has to wait his turn, you just transfer to where you can start. And NFL teams understand that, but he stayed at North Dakota State and was eventually rewarded. I mean, they won multiple titles during his time there. And even if he wasn't the starter for those title winning teams, he was a factor in those seasons as a backup. Not just because he was the backup, but he actually did see playing time. And, you know, they didn't win the national title this past season, but they were absolutely in the running for it. So this is a guy with very intriguing skill set. Like he is somewhat limited as a passer from what I've seen, but he's not a limited athlete at all. Like, you know, even compared to like something like Taylor and Green, he actually compares pretty favorably. Like I think it's a 9.86 relative athletics score for him. So, and then he's the guy who they actually 2 32. That's a big dude. Yeah. And they actively used him in the running. It's not just that he can move. It's that was heavily featured in the game plan. Like if they got inside the 10, he was as likely to carry the ball across the goal line as anyone on that offense. So there's a lot of things you can do with him. And in that way, he also kind of reminds me of Malik Welles, like the ways that you can use him as a runner, even just the ways you can threaten the defense with his legs, end up using like his arm instead. Like he is probably not as good of a passer, certainly not coming out as well as was, but there might still be more to develop there. Because again, he only has 14 starts. The comparison I made in the article, not in terms of the athlete, but in terms of just like the on paper resume. It was kind of similar to Matt Flynn, a guy who just didn't play or didn't start a lot of football games until his final season. But when he started the team in that case with LSU won the national title in the case of North Dakota State, he competed for one. So there's a lot there to like. And again, someone who we do not expect to go on the top and under effects, but we do expect to be drafted in April. Yeah. And he's another one of those potential converts. And I've heard, you know, hey, he could be a tight end without you mentioned that in the piece as well. All right, we're going to do something that I am going to start doing. So you're going to be the guinea pig for this with all of the guests that we have between now and the NFL draft. I'm going to throw a couple of names at you at round two and round three. And I want you to pick your favorite in this spot and we'll do like a mini mock. All right, you ready? Let's do it. So I'm going to give you four names here. We were actually using the mock draft simulator. So these are actual options for the Packers in this specific scenario. Jacob Rodriguez, the linebacker from Texas Tech. Malachi Lawrence, the past rusher from Central Florida. Kristen Miller, the defensive tackle from Georgia or Chris Johnson, the corner from San Diego State. The board broke really well for GM Jason in this one. So the answer is going to be Chris Johnson, but like there's no real six scenario that I can conjure short of like a medical thing that we don't know about, where he's actually available at 52. So even though I think that's the real answer, can I give you the like, the real answer in terms of the options you gave? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to actually make an argument for Miller here. There's going to come a point. I don't know if it's this year. There's going to come a point where NFL teams in the Packers in particular are just going to have to make their piece with prospects not having full or even close to full athletic profiles. Like we can see that day come. Like the players have kind of realized that they don't have to do it and the less they can do things that they don't have to do the more they're going to pivot away from it. And when you've discussed it on the show, like if you're just watching the tape, you see a player who can really help the Packers, especially as a run stopper. And I do think he makes sense for them to size and like the role he might have in Green Bay. It's, you know, the lack of profile that's holding him back from a Packers perspective. This may not be the year where they bend on that, but there's going to come a time. It could be this year. It could be next year. I can't imagine that it hasn't happened by the time we're talking about the 2028 draft where they're going to spend a high pick on a prospect that essentially doesn't have an athletic profile because they don't have another real choice. And at least from what we can tell, and again, there are limitations to what we can tell because he didn't really do the peri draft process. I think that's someone that would make sense for them. Okay. I think you're right. And I think as the GPS data gets better in college, I think that it will be less important in terms of the pre draft work. All right. So third round then we, we, we grabbed who we wrote for this, for this Miller just because we'll say we'll say Kristen Miller was the guy. So let me give you a couple more names here at now 84 Zachariah Branch, the receiver from Georgia. Now he's little Max Claire, the Titan from Ohio State. Because you got a defensive tackle. I won't give you Dominique Orange, Kyle Lewis, the linebacker from Pittsburgh or Skyler Bell, the receiver from Yukon who was also a little, a little, little. Yeah. The problem is that the receivers you gave me don't really match their, their preferences. And even if they were willing to, to bend on that, like, I don't really know where they would fit early on and I'll just be surely in 2026. Because it hurts also technically here, but I don't think he's going to be. But if you want to throw him in there, we can. What was the name again? Ted Hurst. Ted Hurst. I actually do think would be the pick there. Now, when you said Dominique Orange, I'm like, okay, well, now I feel silly for having spent the draft capital on an interior defender. This is the draft though, Jason. That's exactly like you, you just don't know. So if Hurst is there and I don't, I agree with you that he probably won't be, but I'm not as confident about that as I was with Chris Johnson with the 52nd pick. I mean, Hurst in the third round would make a lot of sense. And you can make the argument purely in 2026 terms. He gives you insurance for not just the Christian Watson role, but like other things you can do with big tall receivers. Like they don't have a ton of size among the proven wide receivers that they have. Like, you know, Christian Watson, obviously he has proven it at least when he's healthy. Domino or Dantevian Wicks, he has size, but not to that degree. Like he's not a small receiver, but he's not a big receiver either. And it's entirely possible that come week one, he's not on the roster because they moved him in some sort of a deal. So I think bringing in size to bolster that group for this year would make sense. And then long term, like right now Watson is down under contract past the 2026 season. And you're going to need someone if he's not there to be a field stretching weapon at size from the boundary. Ted Hurst can do that. And he has, it seems enough versatility where like you can move him inside to the slot the way that they kind of do with Watson now. So if you're going to give me Hurst in the third round, I'm going to take that. Yeah, Kristen Miller and Ted Hurst as a day two, you'd be pretty happy. I think if you were the Grimit Packers, if it did indeed fall that way, Jason, appreciate the work as always. My friend will talk soon. Take care, Peter. We heard from out the floor. We heard from Brian Gutekin at owners meetings in Phoenix. And so we've got some things to react to coming up the rest of the week, plenty of stuff. Now that we're in April, the draft is just a couple of weeks away and I can't wait. We've talked about doing a live show. I think for day two, we'll do some sort of maybe, maybe it's not the whole time. Maybe we'll go live for an hour. Maybe go live for three hours. We'll decide what we want to do. We'll figure it out as we go along here. But let us know what you'd like to see because we're still putting together exactly what we're thinking. This is the first year we're doing it. And so I'd like to do something in real time to react to all of this. We'll also go live for the post game. So we'll be live after that will be its own episode. We'll do the live show. We'll be a YouTube only. So you'll have to watch it on YouTube. Maybe we'll clip it up to put some of the stuff on our locks on Packers feed, but then we'll do a live show after the day two is over. And we'll have that in your feed as well. Plus we're doing goodies guys. We just did Bryce Lance, the receiver from North Dakota State running backs coming this week. I've got to watch those guys. I'm really excited to dig into that stuff. I want to get to some of the offensive linemen that I think could be Packers type. So we'll get to all of that coming up here on Locked on Packers. Subscribe wherever you get podcasts. Subscribe on YouTube twice this week. We'll be live on the squad show Friday is our normal Friday. News dump live at noon central noon Lambo time and then our Sunday OT with Brandon's night. So wherever you get podcasts, find locked on Packers. Subscribe to the social media is we've got locked on Packers. We've got my, my social media is there as well. 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