Angie Martinez IRL - Tashera Simmons on DMX: How Strong Women Lose Themselves In Love

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring podcast playlist is available now. Whether Spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring playlist on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. With performances by Alex Warren, Kehlani, Laini Wilson, Ludacris, Ray, TLC, Salt and Pepper, and Invoke. Plus Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also Gold Medal Olympian, Alyssa Liu, Neo, Nick Colesure Singer, Nikki Glaser, Sombra, Weiser, and more. Watch live on Fox, Thursday, March 26th, at 8, 7 Central. And listen on iHeart radio stations across America and the free iHeart app. I'm Daniel Alarcón, and this is my friend who is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you think about the term ride or die? Because we would fend that. Our generation was fend that so hard. Like ride or die. Doesn't X have a... Ride or die. And guess what? I love to be that ride or die chick, but I'll tell you that's over. Like I'm done. I'm done being a ride or die. Is ride or dying this overrated? That's the word I was looking for. Ride or die is overrated. Thanks for watching guys. Today's episode is brought to you by Boost Mobile. My girl was in the room for it all. The number one albums are sold out towards the lows that the public never saw. She is the ex-wife of hip hop icon DMX. And for the first time, she's telling me the full story. Hers, her children's, and she's telling the story in her new documentary X versus Earl, The Simmons Family Speaks. Please welcome to Sheerah Simmons to I.R.S. Hi baby. Hi. When do you remember what we... Like I try to remember like meeting you for the first time. And I don't remember the exact first time, but I just remember. I remember the early days of X gushing about you on the radio. He was very much my wife, my wife, my wife, my life. Your love was so... I don't know, just a big part of his life. Yeah, it was pure, I feel, and unique, especially coming into an industry like this. Well, there's so many questions I have for you. But like, so when I was like, yo, I really want to talk to her more, but we were at recently at Erv's funeral. And you got up to speak. And I had never seen you speak publicly. Like I've seen you on the reality shows and things like that. But in that moment, I just had such a sense of your faith. You talked about being young with X and the two of you meeting Erv for the first time and him doing everything he said he was going to do by by X and or Earl, as you say. I know, I'm sorry. I can't help it. You never call him X? Never. And you really have your faith was just woven into everything that you spoke about. You really, it was really a beautiful moment. Yeah. And your words, I think the whole room, it meant a lot to the whole room. And that was a very challenging time for me because I'm not going to get emotional, but Erv was the beginning of a life changing moment in me and Earl's life. And after dealing with so much fake X being signed with Columbia, you know, finally, we was excited about his one single and being dropped and Erv coming. I felt to the rescue me and X was in the hood. I'm going to call him X. Yeah. We went to hood and Erv came and he already had met X before that. And they were ready just doing some things. But I was always very skeptical about everybody because I was the one paying a lot of the bills X was bringing. He had his side job and selling his mix tapes and doing constructions just because I was like, I need help. We have a son. So he already had a son and he wasn't he wasn't X yet. No, he was developing before we had our son went out to a few battles. One was with Jay-Z and another one with 50. Yeah. And a couple others that kind of was out there. He told me it was about when we first met, he was telling me about Redman. And I was, they were in jail together and share the cell and just about that whole situation. But so he'd been trying to do this for a while. Yeah. When I first met him, I'm like, it's not paying the bills. Like those tapes that you're selling is not covering everything. And he said, nah, I met somebody that believes in me. He's already up at a label and he's coming through. And he said he's coming through. I think I talked about this at the funeral. He came through with Ja and Mike Geronimo. To the house? They came to, I pulled up at our house. Where you living at the time? We was living in Moffrey Gardens and y'all because it's the projects. And Irv pulled up in the MPV and Ja and Mike Geronimo jumped out. They were really young looking. Then Irv was big belly though. He was kind of real stocky then. And I was like, and it kind of looked to beat up the band. So I was like, I was like, oh man, ain't I got him? Like, you know, these dudes ain't real. Like they're not going to take us nowhere. And it's like, you know, never judge a book by its cover. So Ja Rule wasn't Ja Rule? Ja Rule wasn't Ja Rule. He was Jeffrey. He was Jeffrey Atkins. And they was excited to meet another MC from Yonkers. They heard of that. I'm almost sure they heard about the name because X was everywhere battling different burrows. I mean, he put that work in to get where he was. You guys are how old? First of all, I just had Xavier. So I had to have been about 22 or 21. And me and Irv was like the same age. I think age, I mean, he might have been one year older than you. You had other kids already, right? No, we just had Xavier at the town. He was our first child. We had just got to an apartment, but it was in a basement apartment. So Irv was, I mean, the funniest he came in. And it was, it was real. Like you had to, it was a basement apartment that we literally had to walk through to like look like a grimy steps. And it was in slipping actually, Earl. Like we did that, that video in that apartment. Oh, the slipping video? The slipping video. And it was shut down. We had bought a house already. They shut the apartment down, but they opened it back up because X was X then. So they were like, Oh, no problem. But when we, when he walked through like to open our door was like a little jug. So like Irv would tell this story all the time. He was like, yo, like when X blew up, it was like, from the dirty, grimy basement to the, what the bends to this? Like, but it was, but it was real though, because he saw it. He saw it. But when you walked in our apartment, X was an artist. So he painted the apartment so nice. Like with stripes, like a black and gray stripes. And there was a fan that was hanging off the, off the pipes that I was all like air conditioning. It was crazy, but we were happy. It was dope. And we didn't, we didn't know what to expect. Like when Irv was saying, yo, like I'm telling you, there's no talent, like you from the streets, that's what we need. Like he would be telling X and he'll just be sitting in an apartment, like just listening. You know what I'm saying? And Irv was so hopeful and excited. Like he, like he knew what was about to happen before we did. And he was like, yo, this is all temporary dog. This is all temporary. And I was like, you know, just sitting there like, yeah, I've heard this before. And we've already been let down before. So, and then mind you, he, he, he pulling up in the MPV. I'm like, the, the people that's going to make it happen is the people with the big cars and you know what I'm saying? Cause you weren't impressed. Yeah, I wasn't impressed. And, you know, Earl, Earl believed Irv, but you know, he was like, you could show me better than that. You could tell me. And he's like, I am. All right, guys, today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. And listen, it is 20 times. That means there are some brackets to fill out. 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And if you haven't joined the Hard Rock Bet app yet, now is the time to check in the game. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets, max $50. That means if you would have won $100, now you're going to win $200. So that's how you start March hot. So don't sit on the bench, download the Hard Rock Bet app today, and let's get the parlay started every day. Who are you and ex at the time? Like, so you guys have been together at that point for? For, we met it. Well, okay. So we met when we were 11 years old. We got together when we were 17, which was 1988. And then we got married 10 years later in 1998. Wow. So the first 10 years was a struggle. But we was happy. We were connected. We understood each other. What was the love? What was the connection? Like what now that you're older and you know about more things, and you can kind of analyze that? What do you think that that connection was? I wanted to be honest with you. I think it was a trauma bond because I was abandoned as a kid. He was abandoned in a sense, you know, put in a group home at seven. So when we first met, he thought I was from the other side because I always worked and, you know, dressed nice. So I was totally out of like what the type of women he, well, little girl, young girls that he would mess with. So he couldn't believe that I liked him. But when we started to talk more and tell our story, which was happened like the first night to be honest with you. But it was a trauma bond. Trauma bond. So he had been abandoned. You had been abandoned. Yep. Trying to figure it out. And then what does that look like for somebody who doesn't even know what trauma bond is? Because I think people still are experiencing that. What is that? You know now better. I know you've done a lot of work on yourself and yeah. Somebody that has been through intense hurt and pain as a child. That is very different from what everybody else is dealing with. Everyone around us had mothers and fathers or maybe a single, but at least they had a parent. No money. No parents. No parents. Scraps. Scraps. Looking for scraps for food to eat. Burger King because we're young. And I was working at Shop Right and Burger King at the time. Or I was robbing. That was his thing with his dog. And I was told to stay away from him. From the people in the neighborhood. Like he's no good. He's dangerous. But when I met him, I didn't see that. I saw someone who was like me. And we understood each other. And then on top of that he was, he believed in God. And I was a Muslim at the time. And I wasn't really seeing because of the religion. Women are always separated from the men. And Earl saw me. From the first day he saw me. He saw me before I saw myself. Saw you how? He saw my heart was pure. He saw that even though I've been through the same trauma that he had been through, I still had love. And he didn't have that. He used to tell me that my heart can get real ugly. Because I used to say, you're so good. Like why people say what they say about you. You're so nice to me. And I would see the switch then. Like, but this heart can get ugly though. But I was so like, I don't know what I think God, not think. I know now that there's a gift that God has given me to always see the good in people no matter how yet how dark they are. And that's to a fault to be honest with you. I've kind of hit my bumps, you know, got hurt a lot from from that. But I don't want to allow people's you know, actions to change who I am. But yeah, he's the first person who saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. And he was able to identify that because it was something that he didn't have at the time. He was he was bitter. He was very bitter. You probably gave him hope. Because if he sees somebody who's been through what he's been through, and you're so bright, and you're working two jobs and your spirit is like you said, yeah, he probably looked at you like good, like, I don't know. Yeah, no, I just gave him hope. No, you're right. And he said that, but I just still didn't get it then. Like he was just like, you're, you're something good in my life. I mean, no exaggeration, like, because he lived with his manager at the time in New Rochelle. I went and stayed with him. And it was like, no sexual like back then, such a different time, like sex was not like, I feel like girls just from my hair for my sons, they give it up faster. Like back then it was like, I'm a virgin and I'm trying to keep myself. Yeah, I'll come over and stay the night we could have fun like, was so 80s, like innocent. Yeah. And he wasn't even trying either. He just was like, I'll make you some french toast in the morning. I make real good french toast and yo, seriously, and we like talked all night. And I like, like he, I know I fell in love with him that night, but I was afraid to even step in that space. But he said to me that night, and he talked about this, I don't know if you could find footage, because he said in some of his interviews, but he said, you know, you're going to be my wife. And I said, listen, like, you're really trying hard right now to get this pussy and I'm not giving it up. Cause I was like, there's no way that he's going to tell me I'm be his wife and I only knew you for a week. But isn't it that saying about like, a man knows what he wants when he, when he first, when he first meets the woman that he wants to marry? When did you start seeing, when did you first start seeing signs that there was darkness there? Did it take a while or? No, it didn't take long, but for some reason that was my good girls, like bad guys. I looked at it first, when I first saw it was, he, you know, he, he hurt people to get money, you know, like, and when I say hurt people, I kill them, but um, he was robbing people. You know, he's robbing people. So it's all documented. Yeah, exactly. Things that he talked about, he put him to sleep, though. I mean, he used to show me how he used to do it. I was so excited because back then, I think we had like four or five channels or just starting to get cable vision. So it was like, and I didn't have it. So hearing his stories was like exciting. Like him and his friend used to set, like, like set people up, like, like they'll have friends for that with girls and bring guys from. That was the thing back then. Like if you're not from our hood or even our burrow, like bring them in so we could rob them. Like, you know what I'm saying? So he would come back and be telling me the stories and I'd be so excited and like, wow, you really did that? You're so cool. Like, you're strong. This is classic trauma bonding. Classic trauma bonding. Exactly. Like, and I look back now, but that's what Slippin was inspired by because we broke up for a year because once I had Xavier, because mind you, this is all this was happening way before Xavier. And then when I had Xavier, I was like, wait, something turned on, a light turned on in me, but it didn't too much for him. What was the like? The child. What happened to you? Like, what changed about you? Well, first of all, to be totally honest, when I talk about this in my book is that I didn't want any kids because I was abandoned as a kid. I'm the oldest of the seven and I basically took care of them. So I told them I don't want any kids. So when I got pregnant, I tried to get rid of, I tried everything. I went on roller coasters, hot baths, whatever they said that you could do, miscarry and it didn't work. And then when I finally had to tell Earl, because I was getting too big, like not too big, but I was like starting to show, I told him and he was so excited, like jumping for joy. And I was like, what are we going to do with a kid? Like you rob people, like you don't even have a legit job. I was like, yeah, I have a job, but it's like we can't afford a kid. And he was like, no, I'm going to make it happen. I'm telling you. And it actually, it did change him. I saw him want to be more responsible. But it was just, he said it's just so easy though to take. It's so easy to suck ass. Like he was just really like that kind. And I was like, okay, but once I had Xavier, I experienced a love that I've never felt before, as far as like having to live for someone else. Like before it was just all about me and Earl really. And I'm like, he's grown. Like, you know, I thought he was grown. Like I was only 20 something years old, but I felt very old. But you had lived a life for me. I lived a long, hard life. And then this baby came and I was just like wow, like he's so helpless. And then it kind of took me back to my childhood, where I was abandoned and my parents didn't really, you know, they did them. I had to fend for myself and my siblings. And I was like, I don't want this baby to have to go through that. I want to love and make a change with this baby. And it was the conversations me and him used to have. And he was like, we're going to do that. And I was like, you got to stop. Like you got to stop it because I don't want somebody to try to do that to you or to me now. Because I'm now, we're getting up in age. Not really. I'm like, we're only like 22. You like we're getting old. Yeah, we get it. Oh, like I'll be looking back now for like, I've lived three lifetimes. You told me how this was. You could relate. I totally can. But let's go. Our I heard radio music awards are coming back Thursday, March 26th live on Fox. Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you love listening to all year long on your favorite I heart radio station and the I heart radio out hosted by Ludacris icon award recipient John Mellencamp, innovator award recipient Miley Cyrus with performances by Alex Warren, Kaylani, Lainey Wilson, Ludacris, Ray TLC, Salt and Pepper and invoke. Plus Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also gold medal Olympian, Alyssa Lou, Neo, Nicole Scherzinger, Nikki Glaser, Sombra, Weiser and more. Watch live on Fox Thursday, March 26th, Eddie Seven Central and listen on I heart radio stations across America and the free I heart app. Hey, there, this is Josh from stuff you should know with a message that could change your life. The stuff you should know, Think Spring podcast playlist is available now. Whether spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the stuff you should know, Think Spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know, Think Spring playlist on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of the fault in our stars. And now I guess also as the co host of the away and a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcón, a writer and journalist and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first world cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love on our new podcast, The Away and we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer football is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very dependable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to the away and with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Wow. Yeah, so that was it. It was a big change. So when did you see? I don't know. When did you start thinking this? This might not be healthy. This relationship might not be healthy. Like, when did you start to understand that? I started to understand that a year in with Xavier. So that was 1993. Like again, I just wasn't that girl anymore. Because there was one time before I had Xavier where this guy was trying to talk to me. I used to work at a bank and he always flashed his money to try to get me to date him. I told Earl and we set him up. I told him I was with you. Don't judge me, guys. I was only 20. I was only 20. She was finding her way. Wish I had in my way. I was. But you know, I feel like, you know, I'm sure a lot of people out there could relate to this. So that's why I'm just being so brutally honest about that. And, you know, like I said, they put him to sleep. They took his money. He woke up in a cab with no money, the dude, and he went home. And he said, you know, he didn't know what happened. And he worked with me. So when he got back to next day, he said, what happened? I said, I don't know. I jumped out the cab, like some guys or whatever. Like, you know, and we laughed about it. Me, X and his best friend. And these are the things that that I was totally, you know, broken, coming from, you know, feeling like no one loves me. Surviving, surviving, I mean, surviving. And once I had my son, I was just like, we got to start growing up now. This is not cool. So in 93, 94, I can't remember what year, because there was it, he slowed it down. He slowed it down. But then we broke up because he started like messing around with drugs, which I had no idea about. I was very clueless about like what drugs users look like or their actions. And he told me because he was disappearing for like two and three nights. And I thought he was cheating on me. And he said, I have to talk to you one night and never forget he had a hood on. He said, meet me. He called my phone or cell phones. He called my house phone. He said, can you meet me on Ludlow, which is the street in Yonkers. He was sitting on the seat, took a cab, a chair, I mean, a stoop. And he's had to tell you something. I said, I already know you're cheating. Like, you know, you find somebody else. And he was like, I wish, not not he said I wish, but he was just like, no, it's not really like that. He's like, you know, I've been using drugs. I was giving drugs when I was a little kid, a wooly, an older man did this, you know, put it in my weed. I didn't know about it. I had no idea. And I've been craving for it. And every time I get a little cash, or I feel a little down, because I'm not getting ahead where I want to be. I just use and I go on a binge. And I had this whole notebook on like, this is how we're going to beat this drug. And I told him, what's this, what are your downfalls? You know, how can I help? And, you know, I actually feel good about this saying this now, because I gave my all every step of every piece of that relationship to try to help when it came to that drug. We started calling him crack. It was crack. It was crack. And I used to call him his second wife, because I felt like the love, like, there, well, one thing I learned throughout our relationship. And that's why sometimes I don't really call him ex, because I fell in love with Earl. I met Earl. Not many people know who Earl is. They think they do, but they have no idea. The more he started to grow, he's turned into DMX, because that was the artist in him. That was the man who wanted to be heard. He knew that God gifted him with a talent. He came up with his rhymes. And I mean, like bars, I've seen him go in with the greats and go in and go out. Was late, wrote his, his joint left. It was a gift. And he needed to be seen. And DMX came alive when Earl came in his life, when his career took off. But then ex came. Ex was dark. Ex was always dormant. He had access. He had access. He's had money. And the women, remember, when I first met him, I'm sure, I mean, he was, nobody wanted him. Just be totally honest with you. Not the way he was wanted when he became famous and had money. And I'm just saying that because it's the honest, the God truth. And ex was ugly. Ex didn't like me. Ex protected. He didn't like you? He did not like me because ex wanted everything. And I was in a way. I can see when ex came in to protect Earl, because Earl was the soft hearted boy that was left in the group home that just wanted to be loved. That's a sure met. You probably reminded him of Earl. Yep. And he was like, you make him weak. And I know that now back then it was crushing, but I would see him come into these different personalities. Like I literally see it like after a show, after a prayer, after he prayed after a show, he would say clear the room only for me and Tashara. And he would cry like never before. And then he would go. All right, let everybody in. It was a little literally a transformation. And to be honest with you, I'm telling you this now, but back then I used to be like, he's so extra. Because I didn't understand about multiples personalities about trauma and how you do. If you don't deal with it, if you don't heal from it, you just create somebody else. You know what I'm saying? To look it for the word. I can't wear it. I'm fine. But like to survive, to suppress. That's what I say, to suppress because I would get Earl when he came home. It was, it was, it was, you know, sometimes. What was that do to you? I can't, like, that's what I was going to read to go. I was like, I look back now and I'm like, how was I able to keep my mind? How did I not create different personalities to deal with the different ones that he created? And he literally lived in them. Like he literally lived in them. And what it did to me, well, first of all, I got to thank him. And he knew this before he passed away is that he introduced me to Christ. He brought me to Christ. I admired how he manifested his life, how everything that he had faith in literally took, took, took a, like it took root. Like it came to pass. And I was like, I want to do this. Oh, that's why I was going before about being Muslim. He told me that if you believe in Jesus Christ and God, that you can be like you, like you can speak, you don't have to like hide, like you can be powerful too. Like you can be like we're equal, like in, in with God, there's no I'm powerful, more powerful than you. So because of what I've been through, I was like, wow, I want to know who I want to serve that God. And it was, it was God, because had he not introduced me to God, it was God who came in my life. It was God, I know this now, it was the Holy Spirit that me and Earl prayed together every day, every morning, not no, he prayed every morning. I was always afraid. I was like, you do it better. So he, he'll just pray. And then you're like, you got to have to pray sometime to share. And it was not until our relationship blew up is where I was like, if you're really real, I need you to show yourself. Because I served you and talking to God now, I've served you honestly, loyal, very loyal to you. And look what happened. Like look, like he, the drugs took over, like, how can you let a like a powerful man like him be taken down like this God? And I didn't just in understand I was crying, I was upset, like, because I was just like, I want to fight for this marriage. But I don't even, I mean, I'm ex has totally taken over. I don't even know if Earl's even in there anymore. Like it was like the most scariest, darkest thing I've ever experienced before in my life. But God came, he came. How'd it become? I think now it was all part of the plan to be totally honest with you because I feel like God stripped Earl out of my life because Earl was like my God, my world revolved around him. To be totally honest, I like Earl was always, you know, quoting scriptures and reading the Bible. And I was sitting there like, mm hmm. And once, once God got him removed him out my life. It's like, that's when God came in. And I remember scripture saying that we serve a jealous God. And God obviously have a plan for my life. And I feel, and I always say this, well, people used to say that before, but now I know behind every great man is a powerful woman as well. And I was powerful in my own right, but I never wanted to be up in the front. I always wanted to be behind, but I wanted to be behind because I didn't know my worth. My worth was in my marriage. My worth was in Earl, in his happiness, and what he wanted for me. Everything was about him. Everything was about him. Not because I was obsessed or I was now, now this me, the me now knows it wasn't because I was weak. It was just because I went through trauma. I was abandoned as a kid. My mom left me when I was 14. My dad verbally abused me. I was 14 years old. Earl almost played to every role that you could imagine from husband, boyfriend, best friend, God. I mean, just protector. He was a very big protector of financial. He was never cheap. You know, even when he was robbing, he always brought something home. So when he, you know how many women's stories, like your story is, it's definitely unique and it's your own, right? And also it's because you're connected to this big figure. And so we got to know you through that. But like the quiet women who found somebody that trauma, like trauma bond is so, is out here. It's out here. Strong woman, grown man. Yes. So what, what did you learn about that? Like, what could you tell me about that? Like the difference between what a trauma bond is and what, what healthy love is, you probably had both. I mean, I know you loved it. Yeah. You know, okay. So I'm just, you know, the reason why I'm talking about a lot of the, I shouldn't say negative, it's just part of the story. You know what I'm saying? And unfortunately, not unfortunately. I don't find what you're telling me negative. I actually think the story you're telling is a beautiful one. Oh, good. Okay. I don't think, I mean, I don't know how everybody else feels like that. But I just see two kids who were left for dead, kind of like to fend for themselves. And you found each other. And yes, he fell victim to, to, to vices and to addiction. And, but I don't, I don't know. I don't, I see it. I see the love there. I mean, I see it's unhealthy because you come from two unhealthy experiences. How could you possibly survive that together? How could you create, how could two unhealthy situations create healthy love with no guidance, no therapy, no help, like give yourself a break. You know what I'm saying? I don't think what you're saying is negative. I think it's honest and it's, there's so much beauty in that. No, you know, Angie, thank you for that because I mean, I'm trying to hold back my tears, but that's part of why I'm doing a documentary, a talking series, because I feel like it's a lot untold. I feel like Earl died, unhappy, unhappy, very unhappy with a broken heart, misunderstood. And I was so broken from a lot of things that happened with us in the marriage. I stayed as long as I did because I knew him. And when I say him, I knew Earl. I wanted to save Earl. I saw the road that Earl was going down. It got very unhealthy for me in this aspect of, you know, then, you know, just starting to step out of our marriage and creating a bunch of different families that I know that is the first, one of the first things he told me when I met him at 17 was I come from a home with three different fathers. When I get married, I want to have only one home because I know what that felt like. It's chaos. And I want to be there. Like, I want to make sure that I create a solid foundation so to see that not only he was ruined in himself, but now he's creating other families that's unstable and going through trauma because, as we both know as women, you know, it's hard to have, you know, to, you know, everybody, you have to put work. You have to be intentional and it's possible, obviously. And you have to heal. And you have to heal. And he's never healed. Through all of this, I used to constantly tell him, I used to, I almost, I lost myself in it. I mean, I almost physically, mentally, spiritually died because of, I wanted so much for him. I felt like he deserved to be really happy and heal. What about you? What did you deserve? Well, that's why when I go back to, it was nothing but God because had God not stripped me from that relationship, that marriage, I probably would have been a loony tune home because I have a very powerful calling on my life. I know that now. My voice and my courage, I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to tell people what I've been through, how I felt, how ugly it was, because I'm going to help someone to be, to keep everything all bottled up and try to wear a mass, like everything is good, is not the move. And God has given me this courage that I had from day one with Earl. It's what he saw in me that I didn't see in myself. And I wasn't able to blossom and bloom until God stripped me from that marriage. And I've been going on this 10 year healing journey of dying to everything that I thought the enemy told me I was, which was worthless, only good as a wife, a loser, basically unaccomplished, unsuccessful, because I couldn't, it's just so crazy because at the end of the day, You put your value in being a wife that could save her husband. Is that what I'm hearing you say? Very much so. Yeah. Which is like when I look back now. So you couldn't save him. I had to really focus on myself. And it's something that I had not known how to do, because remember I had, when my mom left, I put on my attention, I turned into a mom overnight at 14. So it was all I've ever known to do. So Earl was another project for me, but I didn't realize that. But a project to get away from Tashira. And not until that marriage went left is when I had to really look at myself in the mirror and say, you are more, I will never forget it. When we really, finally, I realized we were really broken up. I had a calendar of just his schedule in my two kids, no, no, four kids, because I had four kids at the time, four, but one, three and a half, because I just had my daughter. But we like literally the two year, because the two of them were home. So I had a schedule of two kids on the calendar. After everything left, I was just like, what do I do? I went into a five year depression. I didn't even know. I literally was a zombie. I went to sleep, slept all day. The kids got off the bus, cooked, went back. It was a cycle that I needed to break, but it took a while. And that's why I'm like, when I look at other people who have been through trauma and they say they're good after a year, yeah, that's possible, I guess. But when you deal with real crushing trauma, now mind you, I had to get over, I still didn't get over the healing of my mom leaving. Then I jump into a relationship, another trauma bond, another two broken people coming together, then we get rich. Now we don't need, now that we're not wanting for anything. So how, oh, no, no, no, let's forget about the yes man. No one's telling him no, no one is telling him. No, they're actually starting to feed him the drugs to start to find out later on in life, in the relationship where I had to say something to him about it. Now, just mind your business. And I was like, who are you? So it is, but again, here I am, Angie. Bravo. What do you say to a young girl? I mean, you even have daughters, like, what do you say to somebody who's in the beginning stage of that now, who's entering, who's in a relationship? And now, you know, this generation has more verbiage, is more information. Yeah. Because you're explaining this story, people have to understand that if you probably didn't even know the term trauma bond back then. It wasn't even a term, a familiar term. People weren't doing therapy. There was no understanding about any of that. So you're in it. You don't even know what you're in and you're in it. Now at least there's some verbiage that helps people understand. But what do you say to a young woman in that space right now, who's in a trauma bond relationship? Like, what have you learned? What would you do different? What should they know? What I would tell, sad question is always hard for me because this, my whole life molded me to where I am today. But like you said, the information wasn't there. Like right now I've been in therapy for eight years. So that has literally changed my life. So with a young girl now, when you see the red flags, first of all, you cannot fix nobody. I will tell, there is nothing that you can do for someone who has been broken, who's bitter, who doesn't have the right perspective for their self. There's no saving. There's no saving them. They can save themselves, but you have to walk away. You, I mean, you could create boundaries. There's something I've just learned two years ago about boundaries. How can I say crazy? I'm 54 years old. Boundaries had none. You have to, I mean, I don't want to sound harsh, but what I know that I know now, what I know that I know now, you got to walk away. Unfortunately, you can, you know, you can try to give them the best advice. I would say point them to a therapist. This is what I tell everybody. When I speak to people, when I go out and speak, they ask me, how did I do it? I say, God first. That's still not good enough for them. I say, because God is the one that's going to guide us and lead us to what we need to be. So that's why I say God first. TLC, Salt and Pepper, and Invoke. Plus Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also, Gold Medal Olympian, Alyssa Liu, Nio, Nick Colesure Singer, Nikki Glaser, Sombra, Weiser, and more. Watch live on Fox, Thursday, March 26th, Eddie 7th Central. And listen on iHeartRadio stations across America and the free iHeart app. Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring podcast playlist is available now. Whether Spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring playlist on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars. And now, I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcón, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very dependable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the iHeart Radio App, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're trying to help someone else, direct them to therapy. You can't be, you're not, you're not built and equipped. And I don't mean that in an offensive way. But this is a mental and emotional and spiritual battle that you cannot handle. And I know that now, I could say that now, because I realized that I was in spiritual warfare. There was so much darkness over X that I did not have a clue. I just thought that it was because when he been through, I made every excuse in the book. And at the end of the day, we only have one life. And God has given us all equipped us for a plan and a purpose for our life. It's uniquely made. And I know that now. So you can't try to bamboozle yours, because I'm trying to find a word. You can't bamboozle yours for somebody else. It's just, I mean, I wouldn't even say that for a relative, a sibling. I mean, I read, I'm sorry, a relative, a child, like I'm learning now that mental illness is real. And I didn't understand, I didn't know that even existed. No one talked about it. My generation, my dad's generation, I used to try to have conversations with him about my ex-husband. And he would always give me very toxic answers. He thought I was speaking too much. Stop telling people about what's happening. And this is the kind of advice I was getting. And what it made me do is keep dealing, keep dealing. So I mean, I would just say not try to save yourself before you try to save somebody else. So younger girl, please try to save yourself first. If you even feel some kind of connection where you want to help somebody that's been through so much trauma, then you need to just kind of look at yourself. To be honest with you, you got something, something's going on down inside you that you even feel connected to want to help that person. You know what I mean? I do. I get that. What about, you said you learned, you're learning about boundaries in the past couple of years. What does that look like? What have you learned? How are you implementing them? So people don't like boundaries. I'm learning. I'm learning that. I'm learning. I've never said no. Never. I thought that was the most worst thing to do. I don't know why that, like I don't know why I put myself through that because no is so good. It feels so good to say no, because if you don't want to do something, then no. Why is that so hard for you? Why was that so hard for me? Why was it so hard? Why do you think? Because worth is my worth. And you know what? I feel like because of my mom and not my dad. No was no. When I say no, like you're on your own. Go survive. We can't help you. We got our own stuff that's going on. So for some reason, I put that together with if someone asked me for something, money, help, just out there. Just stuff that people ask you, can I come stay with you? Can I come live with you? I don't have money. Can you pay for my trip? Just anything, I would feel like I'm letting them down if I said no because of... I don't know. That's why it's just so weird. You're like overcompensating for, I don't know, how you were disappointed. You don't want to disappoint anybody else. Yeah, I get that. And that's why self-healing is so important. Like you cannot because I literally let everything flow over into places that shouldn't have even been. Like why? Like no, I don't... Why am I a bad person? Because I said no. And people play on that. No, for sure. I'm like, I'm just two years now and I'm at peace now. You wouldn't be surprised how many women struggle with this all. It's not uncommon. Wow. Saying no and having boundaries? No, it's not uncommon at all. Not uncommon. I feel like I've lost a few people. Well, that's okay. And they weren't meant to be there. You start to really see who people are when you set your boundaries. You have an interesting friendship with Debbie. Yes, Debbie. So Debbie was Herb's wife. You were Ex's wife. I would imagine she had her own little trauma bond going on over there. I don't want to tell her story. She could tell her own story. But I mean, we saw some of their story because they had their reality show at one point. But how much has that friendship kind of helped you find your way? I mean, I don't know how close you are. I always got a sense that you were really close. No, no, no. Yes. She's like one of my best friends. What I love about her is because we literally mirrored the same story. We walked through our trauma from our marriage together. Literally when Ex and Ja fell out, things got real. Well, Ex and Herb never fell out. They always stayed close, but it made it weird. And Ex was like, I get it. You know what I'm saying? But Debbie was like, we called each other up literally. We're not letting this affect our... What the guy's doing is so dumb. We're not going to do this to our relationship. Literally, that's the conversation we had. And from then on, we were just so close. We were still married, happily married at the time. And when things started to go left, it went from left with her first with Herb. So she would start hanging with me and Ex all the time. Where Herb would get mad at Ex and be like, yo, what's going on? Why is Deb with y'all? Herb was like, because I love Deb. I got nothing to do with what's going on with you and Deb. And it was so funny. And then me and Ex fell out, which Debbie, and she'll probably tell you if you ever get a chance to speak to her. But she was devastated that me and Ex fell out because she said she's never seen someone love someone so much. And I used to roll with Ex all the time. It wasn't like her biggest thing with Herb was like, you don't take me nowhere. Me and Ex, I would go everywhere with him. So she was like, there's no way he was cheating. There's no way he was doing this. There's no way he's doing that. I was like, no, yeah, he did. It was the way he found the way. Yeah, yeah, he found the way. And it's real juicy too. Let me tell you how he was doing it. But yeah, she is one of my best friends. We definitely went through a lot of trauma together. And the fact that, you know, when Herb passed, you know, her and the kids asked me to speak, I was scared to be honest with you. Really, you were beautiful. Thank you. Well, just because I was just like, I was scared because I'm like, what? First, I've spoke at Earl's. Now I'm speaking at Herb's. This is real creepy. Yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, what am I going to say to two great lives? And that meant a lot to me too. Like, you know, I was just like, but I nailed this. So thank you, Angie. You were amazing. Thank you. What about, you know, there's like a fine line, I think that women, especially when they're so, when their marriage means like how you say you, you found your worth kind of as a wife, right? I mean, where's the line between like, given grace, you gave X so much grace, Earl, so much grace. Where is the line between grace and then also self-care? Because I also like to, I don't know, I think I give people a lot of grace. Sometimes people say too much. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I'm that person, trust me. I see that you are. I see that you are. But what have you learned about that? Because you are, you know, you believe in God. You are a godly woman. That does usually mean you give people grace. You try to see them through how God would see them, right? But also then you have to see yourself the way God sees you also too. So how do you kind of separate that? Like when grace, like giving, giving him grace probably kept you in that relationship for way longer than you needed to be. Right? Yeah, it did. That's that. Yeah. I'm just saying, how do you navigate that? How do you think? Does that make sense? Is the question I'm asking? No, it does. And you know what? I feel like it was life. It was, it was a life or a death situation, like a spiritual life or death situation. I start and when I say that is because when you give the grace to a fault where you start to realize that your heart doesn't feel right, like my heart and my spirit started to feel like, I want to say, I want to give a better word than off. You know what? I'm going to tell you a word that I've been working on. It's called de-breeding. So it's a real medical thing that they do with people with diabetes. And it's a metaphor that I learned with my therapist where, oh, I'm going to make sure that I say it right. So what they do is when people have diabetes, every time they go back, like when they have a sore, every time they go back to the doctor, they have to cut and it bleeds every time. And this is a mentor of mine who suffered from this. They said that they asked, why when I thought that it's starting to get better and heal, you cut it again. And he said, because I'm constantly cutting and letting it bleed. And I know it hurts, but when we get to the core, you will be healed. And I use that metaphor for myself on what you just now said about the grace because even though I'm giving grace, I'm bleeding. The person's cutting me, but I'm finding something positive to keep on going. And then, but as I kept cutting, getting cut and keep getting hurt during the process, it came to a point where I said, no, no more. There's a soft, hurting spot here that I have to pay attention to and I can't allow them to hurt me anymore. They don't deserve my grace anymore. And it's not until I got to that hurting, I mean, I bled out every time I gave Earl Grace or anybody who hurt me for that matter. It wasn't only once. Every time I did it, I was hurting. I went home. I beat myself up or whenever I'm driving home, like the last week before I saw him, his heart was always with me. And I could really say that I was mined with him, no, because I knew I was finally at the place where I was just like, you're toxic. You have not changed one bit and you continue to try to hurt me. But this way it was a different kind of hurt. You know, he was mad at the kind of outfit that I had on. Like I was still his wife and it hurt me because I'm just like, I could see that you still love me, but you've hurt me so bad. How can you not comprehend that? And I went home and I cried the whole way home and I said to God, I said, God, why do I still allow this man to make me feel this way? And I give him grace. I should have cussed him out, but I didn't. I just said, yo, worry about whoever you with right now and how they dress. Why are you worried about what I got on right now? And he was so angry that he left the party. It was we were celebrating our God's order and he left because I don't know what kind of reaction he was wanting to get from me. But it was a little embarrassing. Everybody's paying attention to us because they know that we're not together, but we're at this bar and we're kicking it. We're talking. And it was also the same time when he told me my vessel is tired, but my name's gonna live on. And it was a week later that it happened. So literally, so it was like a lot happening at moment. So you're dealing with this all the way up until for his whole life, his whole life, even when we're broken up. So the divorce didn't free you from this no trauma bond. Did not. Yeah. As much as I tried to run away, it's still how long were you divorced before he We divorced in 2016. So 18, 19, 20, 25 years after our divorce. And it was a struggle. Like, I mean, we didn't see each other all the time. But he came every Thanksgiving. Never miss a Thanksgiving. Did that annoy me? Absolutely. Every time. But we have kids. And it was hard for me to date and move on. I mean, and every time he every two days before Thanksgiving. So who's going to be at your house at Thanksgiving? The last year, the last Thanksgiving that he spent, I said, Earl, I'm not dating anybody and no one's going to be at the house. Oh, okay. Okay. I'm just saying, you know, I don't have to hurt nobody. I'm like, why would you want to hurt somebody that I'm dating and you then move on a thousand times? Like, and it's like, you know, it's like, what about you? Have you been able to move on? So I have. I've tried to date. So this is okay. So it's because this story, I feel like we have to do a part too, right? Because it's like, because it's so much, but I did like, I tried to move on like in the six years after our divorce, I dated a couple of guys, tried to make sure it was outside of the industry. One was a therapist, a psychiatrist in a school. I like this for you. Right. Exactly. Oh, yeah. Exactly. And it was really nice. But he had a drinking problem. Oh, exactly. So when you say another girl, the good thing is, see, I had maybe had a trauma bond with Earl, but when I saw that drinking habit, I ran. I was like, oh, no, we ain't about to do this. Exactly. He's a really nice guy, but it wasn't for me. Then I dated another guy. He was a construction worker. And he was the most kindest man I've met in my dating. You know, because there were few guys that maybe just talked on the phone, but he was so kind. And I started to see how wounded I was in that he aggravated my soul because he was kind to me. Like I literally turned into Earl. I feel like, why are you so happy today? Meanwhile, that's how I used to be, to Earl, like Earl used to say that to me. Why are you so happy today? And I used to be like, because I woke up today and I started to be like that with that guy. And he said to me, he said, I noticed that you're like starting to be very mean to me. And it's always when I'm trying to be kind. Are you okay? And it really hurt me. It really hurt me. And I said, you know what, I think it's time for me to start taking time for myself. I don't think this dating thing is to move for me. I am broken. I'm a broken woman. And I tried to act like I was as healed. I'm happy. I moved on. And no, I was really broken. And that was 10 years ago. I was 10 years ago. You got to give yourself a break though, because you don't unravel all of that life quickly. It took you all those years to build that life. It took me 10 years to get to where I'm at now. Where do you feel like you are now? I think I'm in the best place I've ever been. The X versus Earl is, I didn't want to talk about Earl. I tried everything to not go the route that I am now when it comes to like being public. But I'm noticing that it is my story. So even though I talk about it like it's kind of present, it really isn't. Like now I'm in a place where first of all, I had to raise four broken kids. They were very broken because Earl was very present in their lives. And then he wasn't. I had to try to help them and help myself at the same time. So here we go again, from Earl to now my children. But it was it was so much more rewarding because I knew that it was important for me to put out some human beings in this world that were not broken like myself and their dad. How do you do that? How do you help children who are broken? Yeah. When I tell you, it was the best loss myself. I lost myself, but I found myself at the same time in my children. And how I did that was I had to shut off the world in a sense, lock in, don't go out, dating, dead and really take the time for each individual to find out who are you, why you hurting. This is what happened with mommy and daddy. This is what happens if you are not whole and heel and I don't want you to be like this. I don't want you to repeat this generational curse that me and your dad did because I was abandoned. My mom was abandoned. My father was abandoned. I found that out as I did my research and healing. Earl was abandoned. His mother and his father, in a sense, his father definitely abandoned him. His mother, because you know, put him in a group home, then his mother was abandoned. I don't know about his dad, but these are generational curses. And I was like, it's time to stop now. So I would talk to them. My daughter was one. One of my sons was four. Another one was seven. And then there was a 14 year old. And I literally talked to them like me and you were talking. There's no guide for being a parent. So I was just like, you know what? I'm going to go for it because when I was left alone at 14, it was nobody told me. Nobody told me nothing. So I'm going to take the risk and they it worked. They I mean, it's the best. They are the best. They are the reflection of what I've been through, what I overcame, that God is really real. That's another thing I instilled God. I said, I know it looks crazy right now. And I don't know if you got a chance to look at the last episode, because just so you know, these are like very short clips because there's so much more to come. But I do feel like I'm gone. I'm done. I am not that woman that I used to be. Let's go. Our I Heart Radio Music Awards are coming back Thursday, March 26th, live on Fox. Watch as we honor the biggest stars from all genres of music that you loved listening to all year long on your favorite I Heart radio station and the I Heart radio app. Hosted by Ludacris, icon award recipient John Mellencamp, innovator award recipient Miley Cyrus, with performances by Alex Warren, Kailani, Lainey Wilson, Ludacris, Ray, TLC, Salt and Pepper and Invoke. Plus Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also gold medal Olympian Alyssa Liu, Neo, Nick Colesher-Zinger, Nikki Glaser, Sombra, Weezer and more. Watch live on Fox Thursday, March 26th, at 8.7 central. And listen at I Heart radio stations across America and the free I Heart app. Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring podcast playlist is available now. Whether Spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You Should Know ThinkSpring playlist on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars and now I guess also as the co-host of the Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcón, a writer and journalist and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first world cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very dependable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Whatever that happened before, whatever Earl did before, I was over it before he passed. Right. But when he passed, opened up a whole another womb that I didn't even know was there. Yeah. And I'm sure you worry about too, because he is your children's father. And you do still have love. I do. So it's like a fine line between protecting him and honoring him and what he could have been and talking about him honestly in his struggles. But then also giving yourself the freedom to tell your full truthful story. Yeah. It's like, I'm sure that's complicated. Well, the good thing is I was honest from the beginning. Yeah. They've watched me really struggle and survive. I mean, it was really bad. We basically were like homeless in a home that me and Earl bought with love, but couldn't afford to pay a lot of the bills. And it was just by the grace of God. I mean, because, you know, Earl was totally taken over by the dark side. The person, I don't care what anyone says. I know that the man that I fell in love with, the man that I met, the young boy that I met when we were 17 years old, but never banded his family. And I say that to say because the devil's real. And I hate to be sounding all like, ooh, but it's the truth. I always say the greatest trick that he ever did was make people believe he didn't. And why I say that is because Earl taught me who Damon was. And I was like, he called him Damon, but I was just like, he doesn't exist. He's not real. And then I seen him get taken over by him. So, my children know that. I told them that you have to be very careful, the spirits that you surround yourself with. Women, men, I'm very big on, I talk very freely about sex. I feel like soul ties come through sex if you're not aligned with the right partner. I just was honest with them. What is that? What are your beliefs about that? Yo. You think sex could actually... It's definitely soul ties. I don't know if you have ever experienced it before, but I've talked to so many women now. And they say that sometimes they have sex with somebody that they didn't know they were with a bunch of other different women. And they're taking on these energies that they don't realize. But I think it's an empath. I'm an empath, which I've had to learn through therapy, what that was. But they would feel funny after having sex. Then they wouldn't even want to be with the person anymore. But for some reason, they're still craving and yearning for them. And I said, yeah, because you have a soul tie. Like when you have intercourse, you're sharing spirits at the same time. And this is why marriage... And I know everybody ain't doing it. So I'm not please, I'm not trying to judge anyone. Everybody got to get to that space. But when you... God created marriage for a reason, because it's supposed to be intimate with your partner. You know what I'm saying? But I know this is... We're living in an era that that sounds crazy right now, but... That's what you believe, but you believe it. But I do believe in that. And I believe that walking in the light is always better than walking in the dark. For sure. What do you think about the term ride or die? Because we would fend that. Our generation was fend that so hard. Like ride or die? Does ex have ride or die? And guess what? I used to always be... I love to be that ride or die chick, but I'll tell you that's over. Like I'm done. I'm done being a ride or die. Is ride or dying this... Like is that overrated? That's the word I was looking for. Ride or die is overrated. For us grown women out here and you young girls that's trying to be a ride or die, it's overrated. It's whack. It's not even a way to go anymore. You ride or die for yourself. What do you think about the term unconditional love? Yeah. Do you think that's a good thing or do you think that there should be some conditions to love? Even marriage. Even the way marriage is for better or for worse. And then we're fed this term. I love you unconditionally. I just wonder for you from having such a tumultuous kind of experience. To love someone unconditionally is... I feel it's dangerous to even try to do that. Like I feel like love has... Like obviously love's supposed to be easy. And when it doesn't feel easy... And you know how I know that? Because my children... Doesn't loving your... You have a son, right? Doesn't loving your son come easy? I mean obviously nothing's perfect. But it's so easy. And I learn that through my children that this is love. It comes easy. We communicate. Sometimes you may get on my nerve, but I love you unconditional. But when it comes to relationships, so I guess it depends on who you're saying it to. Like I love him unconditionally. Obviously it's too early for me to say, but in my next relationship, I feel like I have to kind of fall back on that unconditional. Have some conditions. And create some conditions there. And some boundaries. Yeah, I gotta put boundaries there. And so no, I think that that's kind of something as we were growing up, we weren't properly taught. How to love? I didn't. They didn't think about conditions. They just laughed. They walked out, figured out on your own. And then I met this young boy and I was like, I love him unconditional because that's how he loves me. But I don't know if that was really right. Like if I put some conditions up, maybe things would have went a little better. Maybe if I stood up more for myself. And you know, obviously I want to be hard on myself. But sometimes you gotta treat people how to love you. I don't think I did that. You know, and that's in his defense. He's going now, but you gotta put some rules. You gotta say some boundaries. You didn't hold him accountable. I didn't hold him accountable for nothing. I was just like, I made him excuse for everything. And you know what? I think he had some boundaries. You know, I think he had not in love, but he was always very honest about how he felt. And mine was just like, whatever makes you happy makes me happy. And that's very, very, because if you don't, people will suck you up. And you know, so unconditional, you gotta come with some conditions, happiness. And that was my way of saying, I love you unconditional. And no, now, and where I am today, it has to be some conditions. And guess what? You know what? Probably with our children too. Because sometimes children could do things that may be hurtful. And we gotta call them on it because we're like, listen, I love you. But that didn't make me feel good. You know, and thank God I haven't had those really. Yeah, but you're putting your, you're being honest and holding your kids accountable. Accountable exactly. Exactly. And I didn't do that. I didn't do that in my marriage. Well, like I tried to, when it was him out of control, and how he treated other people, or how he treated himself, but not how he treated me. That's weird. Now, okay, we just dropped it just now because I really, just like she said, that's weird. That's weird. Like, when I look back now, I'm just so grateful to be where I am now. Like that, you know, I know people, I've met grown women are still in this place. And that's no judgment. It's just that we got to do better for ourselves. What about, what about love? I don't know, would you marry again? Yeah, you would. I would. You know what? Because now that I know what I know, I have friends who have came out of similar situations 20 years later, meeting someone who is just like, they're like, we're doing life together now. And I'm like, wow, I didn't think about that until recently though, because now that my kids are getting older and they, they're good now. My oldest son tells me all the time, he's like, Ma, I want to see you happy. I said, I am happy. He said, but you know what I mean, Ma, you know, like, you know, with someone, you know, having a good life too, like, you know, with someone. And I'm like, at first I got offended, like, but I like being by myself. Like, I love being single. So with your father, for instance, I was 18 years old, like, but, but now I'm like, you know what, it won't be too bad. That doesn't sound too bad. But obviously, God got to be the one to do it. I'm going to know. Yeah. It would be so interesting to see you navigate those waters with this new understanding of yourself and just new love for yourself. And yeah, I think it's going to be a lot better. And that's why it makes me happy thinking about, you know, if I was able to do life with someone else, I think, well, they have to be the right person, obviously, they got to be have done the work if they haven't, you know, if they have any issues. But I think, I think marriage is beautiful. I never really talked about a lot of this before, because I do believe, believe it or not, the good outweigh the bad. And me and Earl's relationship. You still do. I do, man. I just learned so much from that. It was the best times of my life. I mean, we had so much fun. Like I said, like so many other marriages, like they didn't let their wives be around or they didn't know how much money was in the bank account. Like Earl always made me feel like he was just like, she runs everything. And he always put me on a pedestal. And I never knew that he was doing the things that he was doing until he started getting really sloppy in the end. And a lot of drugs was being used. So he couldn't keep it together like he used to. But I'm telling you, it's a crazy love story. But I like it. I take it now. It's your life. It's my life. It's your real life. It's my real life. And I'm still here to talk about it. Thank God. Thank God. God bless me. Seriously. Hey guys, you ever signed up for a phone plan thinking, wow, what a great price? And then a few months later it's like surprise, your bill is higher. We hate that with boost mobile. You pay $25 a month forever. That's unlimited talk, text and data starting at just $25 a month. There's no price hikes. There's no contract. And this is forever. Plus boost mobile is now a legit nationwide 5g network. They invested billions building 5g towers across the country. So what you need to do is visit boost mobile.com or head to your local boost store today and get unlimited talk, text, and data for $25 a month forever. 5g speeds not available in all areas after 30 gigabytes. Customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the boost unlimited plan. All right. We have a segment called IRL Bowl. No, we're going to do our voice note first. This is a voice note. Did you see a listener answer? I mean a question or a comment. Let's get to our voice note. Hi Tashara. My name is Lauren. So my question was on forgiveness and not for DMX but for yourself. So a lot of times we blame ourselves for staying in relationships longer than we know to stay in them. And of course it's always difficult. And have you forgiven yourself for staying longer? Oh, good question. That's an amazing question. The first time I knew I had to forgive myself was the first day I sat on the couch of my therapist. And my first two sessions were just crying because I had realized that I had went too far. I realized that I didn't know what made me happy. And I knew that I was going to start. I had to be on that journey to love on myself. So to love on myself, I go away by myself. I went to Hawaii by myself. I went to some spiritual retreats. But really loving on yourself to be honest with you is getting a therapist because they tear you to pieces and they build you back up together. It's not about Earl. It's not about the kids. It's about the girl sitting in that chair that wants help. And that's the biggest love. Have you forgiven yourself for some of the things that you've done to yourself? Yeah, I have. I just started though. I would say again, a lot of stuff took place two years ago. I've just started to forgive myself. I didn't even know that I needed to forgive myself. And I have these moments where I just start crying or I start laughing. And I'm like, girl, you did some dumb stuff. Why did you do that to yourself? And I think the laughing is good. Because I don't feel that hurt anymore. I don't feel that whole anymore. I feel like I finally feel whole. I finally see Tishira the way Tishira is supposed to see Tishira. And who is she? Man, Tishira is courageous. She's smart. She's loving. She's kind. I'm outgoing. I love to travel. I'm sporadic. I'm last minute. That's what's sporadic. I love God. Oh my God. Tishira loves God. I don't know where I would be without him. He's my best friend. Yeah, seriously. That's pretty good. Hey guys, support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. Have you ever thought to yourself, what if I could go after what I actually want and I could really make a difference? Well, you are not alone. And this is exactly why I want to tell you about Walden University. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working adults like you get the W with the knowledge, the skills, and everything you need to build the future that you want. And you can make a difference where it matters most. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to waldenu.edu and take that first step. Walden University set a course for change certified to operate by Shiv. All right. No, we have a bowl. Let's put you in the bowl. We got an IRL bowl. Pick a question. I'm sorry. I love my kids too. But sorry. The kids are the kids. You said you cry. All right. I'm like, my kids. Oh my God. I'm sorry. You got it. Y'all already know. This is our IRL bowl presented by Walden University. If you could instantly master any skill, what would it be? Master living in the moment. That's a skill that takes serious intention. Just enjoy every day and live in a moment. And that's a skill that I'm working on in my healing. I love that. All right. In real life, what are you most proud of about yourself? In real life, the mother, I was afraid in the beginning of not being a good mom because of what I've been through and how my mom abandoned me. But that is one of the most things I'm proud of because I have one, I've succeeded to raise healthy four children to be someone's amazing husband or wife. Well done, mama. Thank you. What do you like most about yourself? What I like about myself is that I'm comfortable in my own skin, that I know who I am now. And I have my own identity. For a very long time, my identity was in IRL. And now what I really love about myself is that I'm happy to be Tashira. Good for you, boo. I am no longer available for... I am no longer available for negativity, for bullshit, for people speaking on my life that they have no idea about. I am no longer available for that. If it ain't positive, I got no energy for it. Period. And I'm not afraid to say no. Do you still feel the need we're going to wrap up right now? But do you still feel the need... Well, I guess you must because you're your son's father. But do you still feel the need to represent for ex, for Earl, to be a representation for him since he's no longer here? I do. I do feel the need to. And that's the point of the name of the docuseries, ex versus Earl, because I feel like he hasn't had the proper representation of who Earl is. Because ex is who most people really knew and DMX. So I do still feel the need because I know who he really was and two, because it's only right that that's my children's father. Not to mention my first love, my childhood sweetheart. And it makes me sad that he went at 50, but Earl was tired and he told me that. And that's why I had peace in it. Not happy about it, but I had peace with it because he told me he was tired and I could see it in his eyes and his voice. And I got scared and I didn't think it was going to happen, but it did a week later. Yeah. That must have been a tough time for you. I didn't think it would be just because I knew that Earl was tired, but I felt a part of me died definitely because he knew me longer than I was alive. We were together and were friends for over 40 years. And a big part of me was ripped. I mean, before he passed away, I thought I found myself. And then when he passed away, I had to die to myself to find myself again. And that was not an easy journey. It has taken me another three, four years to get to where I am now. I'm like, God, when is it over, God? Well, I think we finally here, Angie. And I think you are well on your way to wherever you're supposed to be doing. I feel that now. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, for sure. Congrats on the doc to that love that. Our final question. You didn't get in the bull, but I'm going to ask you if God were to text you right now, what would it say? If God was to text me, you got a text from God right now. What would it say? I want you to start focusing on yourself. Yeah, it is. Angie, I just want to tell you real quick, though, you made it. Your energy and your spirit, it felt safe. This is to share a Simmons in real life. Hey guys, thanks for watching. Make sure you subscribe, like, comment and check out all of the other episodes we have on Angie Martinez, IRL podcast. Spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not. The Stuff You Should Know, ThinkSpring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You Should Know, ThinkSpring playlist on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All year long on your favorite iHeart radio station and the iHeart radio app. Taylor Swift makes her first award show appearance this year. Also, Gold Medal Olympian Alyssa Liu, Nio, Nick Colesure Singer, Nikki Glaser, Sombra, Weezer and more. Watch live on Fox, Thursday, March 26th, Teddy Seven Central. And listen on iHeart radio stations across America and the Free iHeart app. I'm Daniel Alarcón and this is my friend who is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcón and John Green on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.