Buffalo Benson’s First Beer

Delay from him along the board. Matheson has it slide past. Here comes Jason Zucker across. Jeff O'Wenna stop. Dobish with a huge save. He'll recover his stick back the other way. Good old try to break in. And play is called so we can admire a remarkable stop that keeps the Canadians with it. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers and the 2026 Tacoma. Get yours before red tag days are over. Dom, Elliot, and Kyle back with you once again. We've got three games to get to in the Stanley Cup playoffs, two of which were played on Tuesday night, also game four from Minnesota and Colorado. However, Elliot, before we get to those, we're going to mix it up and get to the news first because there was some notable items to run through off the top in today's edition. We'll start in Edmonton because that's become a bit of a firestorm there, Fridge, the report that they were looking for permission to speak to Bruce Cassidy about becoming their head coach. Cassidy, of course, no longer behind the bench of the Vegas Golden Knights, still under contract by the Vegas Golden Knights at this point. They have withheld permission. I suppose there's some semantics within all of that. Elliot Knoblock himself just back in October signed a three-year extension that doesn't kick in until this summer. It just feels like a messy situation. And Alberta's capital, Elliot, so where are we all at with this? Cleanup on aisle six. Yes, it's a mess, Kyle. And the paper towels are needed. First of all, let me just give you the updated news. As of late Tuesday night, when we recorded this pod, Kyle, I am under the impression that neither the Oilers nor the Kings have yet to be given permission to talk to Bruce Cassidy. So as I understand it, late Tuesday night when we were doing this pod, it wasn't just an Edmonton thing. I am under the impression that Kings have not yet been given permission to talk to him either. So and I do think there's some semantics here. I think there's some annoyance that it's taken a bit longer than everyone thought. But from what I can tell, the answer is not a no. It's just, I don't know, delayed, dragging their feet, whatever you want to call it. It's not yet, it's not yes yet. Delayed, dragging your feet, whatever it is. There's no doubt in my mind that he is the number one candidate available. If I was searching for a coach and all things being equal, he would be my guy right now. And yes, he's demanding. Yes, he can be hard on people, but he gets results and he's proved it twice now. He got into Boston, they went to game seven of a Stanley Cup final, he got into Vegas, they want it. Maybe there's an expiration date, maybe he's not for everyone, but he knows hockey, he's extremely good at explaining it both publicly and privately, and he gets results quick. That's it. And that's what's going to matter to a team like Edmonton, and that's going to matter to a team like Los Angeles. However, this has left a spill in oil country. I don't think the Oilers are going to apologize for this. Whenever they come up for air, I don't believe the Oilers are going to say sorry. I think they look at it as they have to win, they have to do what it takes to win, they have to put themselves in the best position to win, and they are evaluating everything. What I think may have happened by this story getting out though, Kyle, is that it's possible, and again, we haven't spoken to them, so I don't know for sure, it's possible, Kyle, the Oilers wanted to do this quietly. Talk to Cassidy and decide based on what he had to say if they were going to make a change. I think there is a world potentially where they were thinking about, do we listen to him, but maybe not do it. I never like to say it's over, Kyle. I just don't know how they can go to that now. Now that it's out and everybody knows and Chris Knoblock knows, I don't know how you can do that anymore. You might just have to make the change because it's out there and everyone's aware of it. You mentioned the extension, one of the things I've talked about, I think if Vancouver fires Adam Foote, it's an organizational failure. If you hire a coach and you're firing him a year later, that's bad for your organization. That's bad for your organization. It's a bad sign. In Edmonton, you just gave him a three year extension and as you mentioned, it doesn't even kick in till next year and you're firing him. That's not good. That's not something an organization is going to be proud of. Look, I think this is a tough business and things like this happen. You are considering making changes and you ask to talk to people and then you make a change. It happens in hockey. It happens in sports. When Chris Knoblock was hired, Jay Woodcroft was at the end of a road trip and I think they had a pretty good idea. They were gonna be firing Jay Woodcroft and replacing him with Chris Knoblock and they waited until the end of the road trip to do it. It's not pretty. It's one of the hard things about sports. It happens. I do think the Oilers wanted to get this done quietly and they're just not gonna be able to do that anymore. And now what you're probably gonna have to do, Kyle, is you're probably going to have to make the coaching change anyway. Because was it not foolish of them to think that you could have that conversation quietly with Cassidy and say, well, we'll see what he has to say and if we like what he has to say, maybe we'll move forward and make a change. But if not, we may just leave things as is. Was there not a great likelihood that someway, somehow that was going to get out or does stuff like that go on maybe more than we realized? And this was more the exception to the rule that it's now public. I think you always have to assume it's gonna get out. You know, like I'll say this, I don't think the Oilers leaked this. Right, right, yeah, why would they? What does Batman always say, Kyle? Who benefits? Oilers don't benefit from this getting out. So it wasn't them. Now, I don't know who the source was and I'll be honest, I don't like guessing sources because I don't like it when people do it to me, but I feel very confident in saying it wasn't Edmonton. I think, Kyle, you have to work under the assumption that it's going to get out. Yes, I do. I think you have to operate under that way of thinking. Be paranoid. Be pleasantly surprised if it's a secret, but don't expect it to be a secret. And I'll say this too, permission should be granted for both the Kings and the Oilers. I was asking some people why they think it may not have happened yet. Who knows? But I did get one, like initially I thought it was because the Oilers don't have an opening. Well, technically the Kings don't either. And secondly, like we talked about earlier, this happens all the time. You make sure you, a lot of teams will make sure they have their next guy before they fire their current guy. But wouldn't you say that's more so in season when that happens? Yes, it is more so in season, but if Edmonton wanted to do this, the way we were talking about it, Kyle, it makes sense for them to try to do it that way too. The other thing I'll say, and someone actually made an interesting argument about this, it's a theory. He doesn't know if it's true, but this is another executive. He said what Vegas could be waiting to find out here is, will are they guaranteed to be on the hook for no money next year? I believe Cassidy makes around $4.5 million, he's got another year under contract. There's offset language usually in this. So, you know, people ask sometimes, what if the orders just said, we're gonna pay Cassidy $1 and the Golden Knights will be on the hook for the rest of Cassidy's $4.5 million? You can't do that. The NHL has a system set up where you have to pay a coach market value. There was at least one situation I know of. I'm not gonna say which one it was because no one's ever confirmed it to me, but I know it happened, where the NHL kind of had to negotiate because it was a bigger market team and a smaller market team, and the smaller market team couldn't afford to pay what the bigger team was paying a certain guy. So, Batman stepped in and negotiated a fair amount. The smaller market team still had to pay a big chunk of it, but they didn't have to pay all of it. And that was one situation I know about. But his curiosity was, he wonders if Vegas wants a guarantee that if Edmonton or LA hires them, they have to pay all of it. Vegas won't have to pay anything. That's purely a guess, but that was an educated guess. Ultimately though, the league has indicated before that you better have a good reason for denying somebody permission. So unless Cassidy doesn't wanna coach the orders of the Kings sooner or later, unless there's a good reason that we don't know about, they're gonna have to grant permission. Can I ask a question as I've kind of thought about this whole story throughout the day? Of course you can. Yeah. I just wonder, Ali, we've talked about, as we're getting to and really have arrived in a world now, these are multi-billion dollar entities. And in some situations where ownership are, whether they're publicly traded companies or they're people that deal in certain language that you better be willing to speak with them and explaining your decisions, is there not more consideration when it comes to, who you have behind your bench and whether or not you keep on your current head coach of just working through problems as opposed to, well, our top players are upset. It was a tough year, so we've gotta fire the guy. You know, like I just, I don't know. I mean, and again, it's not just an Oilers thing, but this one in particular, because of the fact that he's got a three-year extension that they signed him to that hasn't even kicked in. Like, is there not a little more, okay, that was a tough year. Our players, our most impactful ones feel we took a step back, realistically, like they're right and justified in feeling that. Okay, how are we gonna be better here and work with the people that you have in-house already, as opposed to now we've got three years worth of a salary that we're willing to be on the hook for, and then bringing in somebody else? Like, I just wonder from like at the top, looking down, wondering, is that the best move organizationally, or do you need to look at it and to think, can this not be worked out better and more effectively with the coach you already have in place? It's a great question, Kyle. The business is a force. It's a great question, Kyle, and we'll never know, because I think this got out and forced their hand. Yeah, right, like you don't, do you see any scenario now where it's status quo moving forward in Edmonton? I always see a scenario because the world's a weird place and crazy stuff happens. You know, if they say, Chris, you're the coach, what's he gonna do? Walk away, he's probably getting, that three year deal is probably worth about 10, 10 and a half million dollars. He's not walking away from that. Right. So that's, but there is a sneaking suspicion and we'll see if it's true that this is gonna force their hand. Again though, Kyle, as I said before, if you sign a coach with an extension, that happened in Buffalo, remember, with Don Granado. Right. Like it's never good. It's never good. No, not at all. Okay, anything else on the Edmonton Frontier before we move on? No, I think we got that one for now. We'll see. Okay, all right. So from Edmonton to Vancouver, Elliot, and on Monday's pod, we talked about the possibility of the Siddheens taking on a larger role within the organization. The latest from you that it looks like Ryan Johnson will end up being the guy in some capacity, but the Siddheens, not only part of this equation too, but maybe an even bigger role or roles than you initially anticipated? Yes, so initially I figured the Siddheens and Ryan Johnson would compare to John Chaka and Matt Sundin in Toronto, where Chaka technically has the decision-making power and Sundin reports to him, although as Chaka said, if Matt tells him not to do something, he's not gonna do it. I think it's gonna be the other way around in Vancouver now. I think Ryan Johnson is gonna report to the Siddheens. I think they're gonna be above him on the food chain. I don't know whether they're gonna be co-presidents of hockey ops or what, but I think they are going to be above Johnson and he's going to be the GM. So that is one thing. I knew they were taking a bigger role. I didn't realize how big it looks like it's going to be. They offered the Siddheens a big job like this a few years ago. They said they weren't ready and wanted to have a smaller role, but this now they're ready. They're taking the bigger role. You know, there was a lot about Evan Gold the last couple of days and yes, I do believe he was the other finalist, very strong candidate and it's only a matter of time now. I think before he's running a team, it won't be too long, but Evan Gold was the other finalist. I'm telling you that I'm here in Kyle that I don't know why all this noise was about him on Monday because I've got people telling me around the league that the word was out like Monday morning that Johnson was going to be the guy. As long as everything got done, it was going to be Ryan Johnson. And I don't think the timing is a coincidence that the Siddheens apparently accepted their new roles on the weekend and Johnson knew about it either late Sunday night or first thing Monday morning. And you know, the thing about Ryan Johnson is this, we talk about organizations making decisions and what's a good process and what isn't. One year ago, Ryan Johnson was the GM of their Abbotsford team in the American Hockey League. They won the Calder Cup. They said to him, you're a big part of our future. We're giving you a new deal. We're giving you a raise and we don't want you to talk to anybody else, okay? So a year ago, this was like the organizational wonder boy for lack of a better term. And you know, a year later, you do a process, which is fine. I don't have a problem with that. And there were some good candidates they interviewed. Like the one thing about the Canucks here is they kind of snuck a few people bias without us realizing it till later. You know, Martin Madden was one. Didn't realize that they interviewed him. I think like Martin Madden was a really good type of candidate for them to interview. I think Evan Gold was a good type of candidate for them to interview. But a year ago, to me, you have to have a good reason. If one year ago, like Ryan Johnson has been in the Canucks organization since caveman walked the earth, okay? So if a year ago, you are promoting him as your person, your guy, we're keeping this guy. We want nobody else to talk to this guy. He is our guy. You better have a really good reason, I feel, to change that in a year. Yes, we know the Canucks had a really difficult season, a really difficult season. But are you laying that at his feet? Did he do something this year to convince you that you made a mistake a year ago? And unless you have a really good reason to say yes, I also believe that's a bad organizational process to change that. That says to me that you really made a mistake a year ago. So I think at the end of the day, somebody had to really blow their socks off for them not to take them. And Gold, I think, came close. But like I said, I heard that they knew Monday morning that Johnson was the guy as long as the contract got done. Anyway, I'm curious to see the way this is all working. I have enormous respect for the Siddheens. I think they're gonna be really good at the job. I didn't think they'd be taking as big a job as they apparently are, but that's where we are now. And we'll see how this unfolds. I'm expecting it to be announced at some point on Wednesday. And I think the Siddheens know Johnson. They know him. They've worked with him. They've seen it. They've played with them. They worked in development with him in the American Hockey League. And apparently he's been running the scouting meetings the last couple of weeks. So the whole organization has seen this guy in action. You know, I think he deserves his chance. Now, there were some rumors about Darren York in Nashville on Tuesday. I don't know what date is anymore, Kyle. I'm told those are not true. Okay. That's not the way that that's gonna go. I have a theory that Nashville still wants to talk to at least one or two more people. I suspect that one of those was Johnson. His family lives in Nashville in the off season. And they did want to talk to him. Now that he's off the board, we're gonna find out, okay, is there another choice here that they have in their pocket? Or are they still gonna want to interview one more person? Like I heard at the beginning of this week that Nashville still had one or two people left to talk to. I am taking that search personally, by the way, that I can't do a better job of figuring out what's going on there. They are taking their time, but I suppose in a higher such as that, better take your time to get it right. I just think, I honestly think Kyle, the answer is that they've interviewed a lot of really good people, but no one has forced them yet to say, we absolutely have to hire this person right now. So that's why they're continuing to at least look at people. And just quickly, I'm thinking with the sedans there, I mean, we've all seen and watched what's gone on and how that organization has handled certain things the last couple of years. You know, I don't think this would necessarily be something they need to do, but the fact that they are taking this on, that's really interesting to me to see how this all goes. And what their vision is for the future of the Canucks. You know what's interesting is, Biaxa always says about them, they have opinions. They're very polite, classy people, they have opinions. I am looking forward to hearing some of these opinions. Yes, that's good. Finally, we come out, good stuff. All right, how about Toronto and any kind of timeline on the new regime there, meeting with the captain, Austin Matthews, and just seeing where he is at as they embark on what's certainly to be an interesting off-season. I have heard that is simply a scheduling issue that just everybody has to be able to find time to get together. I know it's Toronto, it's Matthews, it's a big story, I get it. The whole podcast industry right now is being fueled by when are they gonna meet and why haven't they met yet? I've simply heard it's a scheduling thing and nobody should overreact to it. But I do think they've met, like a number of the players who live in the Toronto area, like I think they've met with Tavares lives in Toronto, Nylander has been more visible in the off-season than he was in the regular season and he's around here. I think they've met with like all those guys and eventually they'll get to Matthews. I heard it's a scheduling thing. Okay, how about the Ottawa Senators and their captain, Brady Kachuk? Yeah, so they met Monday and it was a little bit unusual because as everybody knows now, when they lost to Carolina, Brady Kachuk left right after that game for the best reason. His wife, Emma, gave birth to a beautiful little baby and he'd been away taking care of that, which is obviously the first priority. So this was kind of Brady Kachuk's exit meeting. And I think everybody is trying to respect everybody else's privacy here, but the one thing I did hear was that there was nothing said in that meeting that induced mass panic or should give the Ottawa fans a reason to worry. That's all I heard. I heard that there wasn't like, I think people really wanted to know when that meeting was happening to find out if there was going to be any issue. And I just heard like it wasn't bad or anything like that and there was nothing to overreact to. All right, so we also had on Tuesday a potential UFA taken off the board. Charlie Coyle signs a six-year deal to remain in Columbus, six by six, 36 million in total. Not a bad payday for anybody to say nothing of Coyle who just turned 34 years old could have been maybe the most coveted center on the market if he had reached July 1st. Yep. What do you understand about how this one got done and getting Coyle to the point of going, let's stay in Columbus? Yeah, I have to admit I was a little bit surprised because you said likely the number one center. I think he is the number one center that would have been available. And I thought that meant he would go to market. And the other thing I think that happens here is like the NHLPA, they have some really smart people there who help players and agents understand what the market is going to look like. Columbus knew that they would have to do a deal like this to get Coyle done. Like there's no way that Coyle was unaware of what his market was, what the interest would be and what he could get. And for Charlie Coyle to sign, number one, I think he likes playing for bonus and he likes it there, they had to make him an offer that would have him say, you know what? This is as good or better than I'm gonna do out there. And yeah, the term is big, six years at age 34. Like there's not a lot of people that would do that. But I'll tell you what it says to me most of all, it says to me that this team is in win now mode and it also says to me that they're in Zak Warnski's prime, he's their best player and they're going for it now. That's what it says to me. Zak Warnski's got two more years under contract at just under 9.6 million. He's eligible for an extension on July 1st, 2027. This is, he's their best player, he's their leader, depending on what happens with Boone Jenner, he's their next captain, the time is now for these guys, the time is now. And if they win or they are successful in the next few years, they'll deal with the back end of that. This is a win now move. Long been a fan of Charlie Coyle and Rick Bonas certainly was too. Like I think in his short time after arriving on the scene there, that was kind of the one name that he mentioned as the guy that maybe didn't know a ton about prior and now having an opportunity to coach him and be around him a lot more. Huge fan of what Coyle brought to the table and will continue to do so with CBJ. You know what, Carl too, just one other thing I'd say about Coyle, I've heard that in that room he has a lot of juice, a lot of juice. Really, eh? In the sense that he's an older guy who's played in a lot of different organizations, right? He's played for Minnesota, he's played for Boston, he's played for Colorado, and he understands what, so he's played for some really good organizations and he's been on some really successful teams and I've heard he has opinions that he's not afraid to share about what makes teams work and what's successful and what isn't. I've heard that about him. Hmm. Well, I mean, he was part of that, think of the heyday Bruins, I guess, of the last, what do you wanna call it, 10 years. Yup. Played a big role in their run in 2019 and of course their president's trophy year in 2023 and a season after that too. Like he's been in some big spots with the Bruins and had some great playoffs as well. So all the reasons why Columbus wanted to have him sticking around. Okay, a couple of things before we get to the games here Tuesday night and the night prior to that, just wanted to say congratulations to Mike McKenzie's OHL Rangers, winning the championship and martyr. The smarter McKenzie brother. I saw Sean was there to support, so it's good that his brothers were looking at each other. Yeah, so yes, they punched her, we're taking to the Morial Cup and we've got our Walter Cup final set, Elliot, for the first time in the league's history and all Canadian clash, the Ottawa charge and the Montreal victoire. No surprise, Marie-Philippe Poulin had the game winner for the victoire in the game five series deciding game against the Minnesota Frost on Tuesday night. Big time stuff. That should be a great series. Those teams can play some really great games against each other, two great buildings. Great fan bases. That should be a tremendous final there in the PWHL, so all the best to them there. Okay. By the way, can I just mention one thing about a couple things about Kitchener? Yeah. What was that video of the kid who was bleeding all over the ice? I just saw it, I mean, we were both working Tuesday night. I don't know what caused it, but I saw like next thing, he was wearing the towel almost like a bandana just to try to stop the bleeding and the celebration. That was very hockey. There was nothing steeping him on the ice, that was great. So I saw the highlight as I was scrolling on my computer and I said to myself, who is this guy? And it was Dylan Edwards. And he got traded, I guess, to Kitchener during the season from this year from Erie. He had a great playoff, 25 points and 18 games, and he's non-drafted center from Toronto. Well, of course he's from Toronto. All the tough kids are from Toronto. Five foot eight, 171 pounds. I just looked at that guy and said, I don't know nothing about Dylan Edwards until I read about him tonight. That is a hockey player. I bet you too, he's gonna get a contract off or somewhere because of that bloody video. The interview on the ice or just jersey soaked in blood, my goodness, yeah, that is, that is hashtag hockey player. The other thing I wanted to mention about the OHL final and the playoffs is that we talked a little bit about Sam O'Reilly and how well he played. Someone else said to me, so in the final, they beat the Barry Colts, Kishan Acheson, unbelievable playoff. I know people have said, you've been talking about O'Reilly, you've gotta give Acheson some props. Apparently he had a game the other night where he played like 50 minutes. I said, show it to me. I want proof of that. And someone said, I'm telling you, he played like 50 minutes. But all through the playoffs, I heard he was just outstanding. And the people said to me, the Islanders who got him 17th overall last year, they got a heck of a player here. But I had a couple of people reach out and say, you have to show them out for the way you played. Good, yeah, what a draft I could end up being as history shows for the New York Islanders 2025. Good, good stuff. So the Rangers, yes, off to the Memorial Cup. All right, the game's Tuesday night. And why don't we begin with the one that we were at, Elliot, game four, Sabres and Canadians. And that was a first period that felt like it would never end with the double review that took almost as much time as the actual gameplay itself. There was the once in the Blue Moon Stanchion goal from Tage Thompson and another big Zach Benson moment in the third period. Leaving the building Tuesday night, you know, we've got a series all squared at two here. And what were your feelings about game four? Lindy Ruff was the gambler who rolls sevens. It was a good night for his decision-making. Lueckinen, I thought was really good. I didn't like him early. I thought Kelly Rudy was right that he was nervous, but I thought he got better as the game went on. Made a couple of great saves off Caulfield. I thought Hell in Us was excellent. For a guy who was making his NHL playoff debut, I thought he was tremendous. Could have had two goals, played really well. That almost covered copies. Yeah, played extremely well. Didn't look intimidated. Looked like he fit in perfectly. And, you know, even Shen, he didn't play a time, but he got penalty kill time. And Buffalo hasn't always won the man advantage slash penalty kill special teams battle in this series, but they did in game four. Montreal went one for seven on the power play. Buffalo's went two for four. And, you know, Shen was a part of that. When they chose Shen to go in, I was very happy for him because I've loved dealing with him for years. I just wondered if he would be overwhelmed by Montreal's speed. They clearly had a role for him and he was good in it. And they basically went with 5D. Although Dallin almost mucked it up by taking so many penalties that he was way under his average. But I still think the number one thing, and I'm not surprised the series is two-two. I think we were all expecting it to go six-seven. And Lindy Ruff hit on it in the post game. And actually, Tage Thompson also talked about it in the post game, is they just have to stop taking dumb penalties. And I know people rip the referees in this one. This is a night where the diving made it impossible for them. You know, there's been a lot of times, Kyle, that you and I have talked about embellishment in these playoffs. It was bad in this game. I have no doubt they're gonna warn the two teams about it going into game five. I will not be surprised at all if we see at least one embellishment penalty going into game five. But I think those, it's borderline impossible to call a game when it's like that. And so I suspect this will be a thing, but that is the only issue I had with the Sabres. They scored early again, they didn't fold. Montreal tied them, they held on. I thought Buffalo played, their first game I think you'd have to say would be their best game of the series, but I thought for the most part they were really good in this one. And I think when it comes to the Sabres, their biggest enemy is themselves more than the Canadians. Lindy Ruff talked about how some of their mistakes in game three were self-inflicted and in game four, I think he would say the same thing. Like he said he was proud of them, he said that was the team he knew, but he also said again, we cannot do this anymore. We cannot be undisciplined. Thompson, by the way, Dave was telling him to take credit for that goal and finally Thompson bit. He was like, yeah, I saw that one was sticking out a little bit and I banked it off it. It was pretty funny actually. It was if he's like, okay, I'm just gonna play a log here. It was a pretty funny answer. But I'm not surprised at all that this is two-two. It's exactly what I expected, a tight six-seven game series. Yeah, I thought this was, you know, the Sabres actually, they defended very well in the third period, like the amount of key shot blocks as Montreal pushed there. That was something we kind of been waiting to see for a couple of games out of the Sabres. So full marks to them there. You know, I think it was just kind of a strange game because like you said, it just penalty filled again. Stuff that were legitimately to be called and stuff where you're just rolling your eyes and okay, back we go again. And you know, like Jake Evans said, we just kind of left it up to chance, right? Like they had plenty of opportunities. They got one to go, but it was a power play goal from Benson that was the difference in the end in the third period. I had heard that, I mean, there wasn't a ton of chatter, I think between, you know, the two teams and the series supervisor in between games three and four when, you know, all the stuff around the goaltender, of course, Dobish gets run by Malenstein in game three. I wonder if there was a little more conversation after this one because as you say, some of the embellishment stuff that's crept back into things. And now as you know, you know, as this series goes on and it's now a best of three, you know, do you really want to be the guy that gets the extra shot in or that tries to sell something and you end up being the one that costs your team and putting your group down a man short at a critical time in the game? Like it, all of that becomes heightened now going forward. Between these two teams starting Thursday night, I also thought to a very nice touch of the Sabres admin that had the beer waiting in Benson stall after the game to commemorate his 21st birthday. What a way to celebrate with a playoff game winning goal. And an ice cold beer after turning 21 for the young Sabres star, that was kind of cool. Very good, very well done. So game five back to Buffalo on Thursday night. Meanwhile, it was game five in Vegas between the Golden Knights and the Anaheim Ducks, Pavel Dorofiev, pair of goals now tied for the league lead in the playoffs. He's got seven in this post season, another Vegas Golden Knights overtime victory, Elliott, this was a tight one. It went back and forth with Anaheim taking the early lead and then having to tie it up late. But the Golden Knights, the veteran team, once again staying calm at the biggest moments and Dorofiev, the hero giving them the edge going back to Orange County. Second straight series, Dorofiev has gotten better and hotter as the series has gone on. He was great, just doing what he does at the end of that Utah series in round one. And now he's doing it again after he blocked a shot and temporarily left the game. I think, and again, two, remember we talked about Hurdle? He scored at the end of game number four. Well, he scores again in game number five and was stoned out again. Hurdle has to be a difference maker. And it would be interesting if that one, I wouldn't know if I would call it a garbage goal because it's still kind of mattered in the great scheme of things, but that one late goal in game four is what finally gets Hurdle going again. So those were two really important things for them. If I'm the Docs, you're down three, two, but I don't have a lot to dislike about the way they played. I thought they were really good. I thought they carried a good chunk of the play. It was obviously a one goal game and over time, they were right there with them and it wasn't like they were hanging on for dear life. If I'm them, I'm just like, keep going, keep doing it, keep doing that, we're right there, we're right with them. And the big one for this one is gonna be, do we get another game for McNabb? He got ejected in the first period, Kyle, and we were talking about it earlier, you made the point that sometimes a player who gets thrown out of a big game like that early, the NHL kind of says that's enough, that's a big punishment, but Pailing looked out of it and hopefully he's okay. You know, he's a really good player for Anaheim, he's scored in these playoffs, but generally he's been a really good two way force for them. If Pailing has to miss games, I could see, and they'll ask for an injury report, they will. And they've already determined that this was a penalty that caused an injury, because they gave them the five minute interference. If Pailing's gonna miss more games, I could see them giving McNabb one more. But you've already determined it was an illegal play. Right, right, right. And Quenville didn't have an update on him post game, just throw that in. Yeah, yeah. But they, I mean, that's the one thing, if he's gonna miss games, I think McNabb is vulnerable there. So, you mentioned that goal that Hurdle got in game four. Okay, has that become a spark for him? And he has a big goal in game five. I wondered too, though it wasn't a goal. I thought, you know, as we've watched Mason McTavish try to fight his way through things, and he's in the lineup, then he's out, and then back in. I thought the play that he made, he ends up, he gets the secondary assist, but to be out on the ice late, like that first and foremost, down a goal. And to be part of that sequence that leads to Zell Wiggers tying goal, you know, maybe is that something for him going forward for the Ducks that sparks him and gets him in a better rhythm, and maybe a little more confident going into a game you need to win in game number six with your season on the line, because you know they're gonna need everybody. Maybe there's a bit of that, like we saw with Hurdle for McTavish going back to, going back to Anaheim here. I don't know. I just would say if I was the Ducks, we're right there with them. Don't get down, don't give up, we're right there. It's amazing too, Zell Wigger, who we talked about wasn't playing early. Now he's got a goal, he's gotten assist, and back to back games. He's a good player, I like Zell Wigger. Yes, yeah, yeah. I would just say if I was the Ducks, I would just say we're right there, we're right there with them. And you know, and you really have to teach that to them because when Vegas got Utah down three, two, they pounded them in game six, it was at seven to one, they broke their spirit. Like that's what you can't allow to happen with the Ducks. You can't allow Vegas to do that to you, and now what is a clincher? No matter what goes wrong, you have to hang with them. And really, you know, outside of game three, they've hung right with them through the other four games in this series. So to your point, there's no reason for them to believe that they can't continue to do so here. Now that suddenly they have to win to ensure there's a game beyond that. So that's been a really fun series that to follow out West, Elliot. All right, with that, why don't we get to the final thought presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers and let's go to game four, Avalanche Wild, which was on Monday night. So Jared Bednar makes the decision to go to Mackenzie Blackwood in goal for game number four, up two to one in the series. That ends up being the right move for the Avalanche. I just looked at this, Elliot, like the Jim Gregory award, the general manager of the year finalists were announced. Bill Garan is one of them, very much deserving. You think of the moves, the wheeling and dealing that he did to improve his team in a very, very strong division that he is in. Just looking at this, as good as Minnesota is, are the Avalanche just too good in this case? 100%. So I was on with Matt Marcazzi and Mike Fuda on Tuesday and they were like, was the Minnesota victory in game three, was that kind of a mirage? And I don't think it was a mirage at all. I thought Minnesota played extremely well. I just think Colorado's that good, right? You know, they're gonna, if they're taking a good team right now and they're up three-one because Minnesota, as good as they are, they can't slide back from the level of game three and expect to win. And again, that's basically what Marcus Foligno said. He called game three their best game and he said we weren't the same and they lost. And that's what happens. You have to be at your best consistently to have a shot against this Colorado team. And you know, I think the one thing that really hurts them, Minnesota, and we know that Ericsson Eck and Brodeen did not travel to Denver for game number five. But Ericsson Eck being out, I think that's the biggest loss for Minnesota of the series. Because, and I know the numbers showed this too. You know, somebody was saying to me, where's Boldie been all this series? Well, Ericsson Eck being out, that is hugely challenging for Boldie. I think, you know, right now he's playing with Yurov and Johansson and they got cratered at even strength the other night. I just think that it's such a challenge for Boldie when he doesn't have Ericsson Eck there because every time he's on the ice, Colorado, which is a very well-coached and disciplined team in terms of the way they play, they're like, we're not letting Boldie beat us when he's out there with this group. It's a big challenge. And the thing is too, with Ericsson Eck out, Minnesota's weakest position is probably center and that's Colorado's strongest. So I think those are both huge challenges for the wild. They're a great team. They're just up against a juggernaut there that's led from wire to wire all year long. And if you're not playing at your best, they're gonna beat you. And that's to me what happened in game four. Wild looked really good in game three. They weren't at that level in game four. They lose. You know, I have to say this too, Ross Colton had a goal in game four. Very interesting time for him. Healthy scratch early, now playing. He's played a lot at Wing this year. He's a natural center. They have so many centers. This is a big playoff for him. And I know like there's some teams that have told me that they think he'll be available this off season just because of the numbers game there. So I think there's a few teams watching him and seeing how he does. So that was a big goal. Well, I mean, he does have a Stanley Cup winning goal under his resume already. Yes, he does. And then even like the year that followed when Tampa went to the final and lost to Colorado, I mean, he was a big part of that lightning team and then came up in some key moments then along the way. So like he has shown in the past the ability to be an important part of a good team in the playoffs. And though it's, yeah, that Colorado team is so deep. So it is an accomplishment just to be one of the 18 skaters selected to dress for that roster right now. But yeah, a big goal for him. Just happy to see Parker Kelly at his first career playoff goal ends up being the game winner for Colorado there. Gosh, I mean, letting it fly from the high slot there. I mean, I don't know if he scored many like that in his career, but the guys looked comfortable in the playoff setting and gets his first. So to your point about Foligno, like as he said, our best is good enough. And that very well may be like when they aren't their best, I'm totally willing to take that at face value. It's just not only the opponent, Elliot, but the big thing, as you say, like the two key guys that they don't have available right now. It's like you can't have, you can almost not have any shortcomings. If you've got a, if you're gonna have a chance against Colorado, not just in one game, I'm talking about over a best of seven. It's like you can't have many shortcomings if you're gonna have a chance. And those two absences just continue to loom very large for the wild here or now up against it needing to win three straight to keep this thing going. Meanwhile, Carolina, elephants have had a gestation period since the Hurricanes last played. I saw as Brindlemore was on with Marquesian Futa. Like everyone's just doing things. I'm sure it is to preoccupy their mind each day because yeah, what else have they got going on? Now they know Montreal, Buffalo's going at least to Saturday here for game six. And then we'll see beyond that about when the they'll be able to start playing again. But yeah, did cozy for a while yet in Raleigh. Work on that dinner. Bring back the peach cobbler. Yes, that's right. That's right. And apparently the meal room's in a different spot of the arena now. So everybody was all, yeah. This is an outrage. Sunhines start buying that peach cobbler. By the way, the GM of the year voting, there were six good candidates I thought this year. Six good ones. So the three that got there, I think are all legit. That was, as you mentioned, Garen, but also Chris McFarland and Pat Verbeek. I thought all very deserving. But the other ones I thought also deserved to be on the ballot. Kent Hughes, Kyle Dubas, Eric Tulski. I thought all three of those guys had good years too. Yeah, I can't argue with that. It was, there was a number of very good candidates. And it was a good mix, I suppose, all of the teams that completely blew past expectations and ones that expected to be good and flat out were. It's, it was good variety in terms of, who were possibilities for winning this award? And I got no issue with the three finalists there either. Oh, by the way, one final thing. If you're a Macklin Celebrini, now Sidney Crosby's coming over. I don't know, what are you doing there? You hand them the seat off to him? Yeah, I think he would. I bet you Celebrini will give it to him. The bigger question will be, does Crosby take it? Right. But I think Celebrini will offer it to him. I mean, that's obviously a very confident guy. I know like, if I was in that spot, I'd be like, I wouldn't feel comfortable if Sid's coming over. I'd be like, he's the captain. No, I think it's gonna be like this. Sid's gonna start talking. Like they're gonna be down like two nothing to sweeten after one, Sid's gonna start talking and Celebrini's gonna say, hey, 87, this is my room now. Go sit down. Exactly. How many days have you been here again? Yeah. Pipe down, Sid. That's right, this is my time to talk. Put a sock in it, Crosby. I'm the captain here. That's right. Look at me, I am the captain now. This is my time. This is Shooter's tour. That's great. Okay, that's late. That was the final thoughts that were presented by your, yes, Canadian Toyota dealers. We'll take a break and when we come back, Elliot's conversation with Jakob Dobis from earlier in this round, may have seen it in the Hockey Central pregame show on Tuesday, we will play the audio for you in its entirety after the break. You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Okay, welcome back. So Jakob Dobis has become one of the darlings of this year's Stanley Cup playoffs, a rookie netminder playing in a market like Montreal, of all places. He's been a great player for the past few years. He's been a great player for the past few years. He's been a great player for the past few years. He's been a great player for the past few years. Of all places, he's got a personality that is intriguing, engaging, entertaining. He is somebody who, I'll be honest, I didn't know too much about before these playoffs started. Other than this was a goalie with a lot of potential and had the ability to win big games ever since first being called up by the Canadians. So after game three, when they beat Buffalo the other night, I'm sure you all saw the interview on the ice in the in-house with Elizabeth Lerancourt from TVS4. So I'm finishing our interview for Sportsnet on the Canadians bench, just as that was getting underway. Talk about an absolute surreal scene sitting on that bench, looking at him on the ice, take in that crowd going absolutely berserk for the performance that he just put forth. It is remarkable to watch the love in that is going on from the Canadians fans to Dovish and how Dovish has been giving it right back and also how he's gone about all the other things that go along with it. The mindset, the preparation, it's all so fascinating. Elliott had the opportunity to spend some time with him when we were in Buffalo, the early stages of the series to talk about just that, how he prepares, what goes through his mind and what makes him tick as he is very rapidly becoming an elite goalie in these Stanley Cup playoffs. So here now is Elliott's conversation with Jakob Dovish of the Montreal Canadians. So Kyle did an interview on ice after game seven and it was a really fascinating interview and you said every game is, you treat it like a game seven. Can you just tell us how you started that philosophy and how do you do that? Well, I wasn't ever like a high-end draft pick or I never had the easy journey to kind of make it to the NHL. So I remember that my first game in the NHL, I wanted to prove myself and I needed to play good to stay in the NHL and I feel like I did a good job last year and this year was kind of the same thing. I needed to make the team and every game I played in a regular season was kind of like I need to win these games, I need to play good to stay on the team and possibly, you know, be the number one goalie. So it's just every game that I play in the NHL, I take a lot of pride into it and I try my best to win those games and be the best version to survive in this league and establish myself as an NHL goalie. So it's every game that I play this year, I felt like I set it on the eyes I was fighting for my life. I feel like it was some part of the season, it was true because I needed to perform to stay and eventually I feel like this mindset, going into the playoffs was an easier process and I felt comfortable going into the game seven and it was a great time. It's a great story and it's a great way to think. I remember Mark Messier, the Hall of Famer, after his career was over, I once asked him when he felt like I made it and he said, never, I never wanted that feeling. So I'm wondering now that you've won game seven, you've been on such a nice little role, do you allow yourself to think I'm making it a more established? We lost yesterday. So it's every day is a new day. Like, you know, I was, you know, everyone was praising me after game seven and then I said we lost for once. So it shows you how hard it is to stay good and that's why like guy like Vassie or Flurry or those guys who played for so many years and was the number one goalies for pretty much their whole career. Like I admire them because I know how hard it is to be consistent and good and just, everyone is coming into our job and you need to perform every day and during a practice or in a game. So it's hard. It's, this league never makes you comfortable. You gotta attack it and you just gotta be good every day. This is kind of my mentality. Okay, were you always strong mentally like that or did you need to learn? No, definitely my first year pro I wasn't, you know, in college it's different than coming to a pro. And I feel like when my, our goalie, Gorsh Marko, he first started working with me but I feel like he needed more help to kind of put me on the track. So I started working with Pete more frequently. I didn't want to at first, but then I started around Christmas and a lot of things that I can use in a game, I started using it. I just feel like I feel better in certain situations and it's a skill. Like I watch a lot of tennis videos or tennis players like Federer Nandall. Like you can tell like Federer, first couple of years in a pro he was kind of a nutcase, but like if you watch him, towards the end we calm, steady, like one of the best tennis players ever. And he talks about how mental side of a, it's really a skill. And I feel like for goalies you're pretty much all on for three hours, you're just, you're in your zone, you gotta work on your brain. So that's what I tried to do. Yeah, I've been working with Pete and I'm definitely trying to improve this as my career goes. Are you team Federer or team Nandall? I was a Djokovic fan. Djokovic, okay, yeah. Always. So I admire all those guys, they were unbelievable. I can't blame you for liking Djokovic. He's incredible. So one of the things I heard you kind of think about is the wall, you're a wall. Can you explain what that's about? I feel like there's more Pete's. I have different approaches, but the way he talks makes me feel more confident in myself. And when you talk to him, you can tell he is really... He's good at it. Yeah, he can pick it right away. And it's kind of, you just get used to it. And I'm going to call him today and just talking to him when something doesn't go your way or you're over thinking a couple of things, he puts you right back on track. So he's good at that. So yeah, I heard he says, you're the strong wall, the puck's gonna hit you, you're gonna stop the puck. So if you don't mind, what do you prefer? Like how do you think? How do you talk yourself into your confidence? Well, get under pressure. Let's say it's six on five and you go six on four a minute left and you gotta defend this. Like, I feel like people sometimes get scared, but I tell myself, like, this is exciting. This is awesome. Which is like, not normal, but like, that's what I tell myself in those situations. Like, especially on a road, like when they've tied by multiple six from five. So I was excited. Like I was looking at the guys and I was like, I won this and they're staring at me. I'll be like, this is something that's wrong with this guy. But yeah, that's what he is teaching me to want it. Like, you're going to make the safe. You are telling yourself you're going to do it and rather be like scared and like 50-50 and afraid of the situation. You gotta attack the situation. And if you fail, you fail, but if you succeed, you succeed, but it's like the mentality that you take going into it. Like, I'm not scared of anything. And I just, I hope I'm going to get this or I think I'm going to get this. And I feel like usually it works sometimes. Not, yeah, it's just going to work, but it's pretty, that's one of my favorite things he taught me. He did say in, you know, you love Vasilevsky. He's your guy, your idol. That the night before game seven, you kind of talked about envisioning, shaking his hand and him congratulating you on winning the series. Yeah, I have all the drawings. The one for, yeah, like putting into universe what is going to happen. That's why I started doing a lot this year. Like drawings? Drawings, saying stuff that's what I want to happen every morning before bed. Like just actually like putting something in the universe. And it's been a pretty cool year this year. So I think I'm going to keep doing that. And yeah, like, if you'd always says the caveman, you know, they've been drawing on the walls. Yes. A thousand millions years. I don't even know how many years to go. And that's why I try to do like it's meant to be. You know, I think it's really cool. To me, it's like whatever works. If it works for you, it's great. Is there anything else you've drawn or saying that really, really stands out to you? Like I will envision my eyes, how they move. I would envision our team celebrating together. And the same exact thing happened, which is really cool. And like just things like that. I know it's really interesting, but like it's like, and then I will write a couple sentences that what's going to happen tomorrow and what I want to do and how to approach the game. And yeah, I watch a video. Like my routine is really long and takes a lot of effort into it. So sometimes I feel good physically, but the mental part is it's where I'm pretty much spending my whole time. I think it's really fascinating. And because I think there's going to be, I think the best thing that this is going to do, Yaakov, is there's going to be a lot of young kids who are playing goal and they're going to see the goalie of the Montreal Canadians does this. And they're going to be like, I can do that. That can help me. I mean, everyone is different. Like I'm a, I wouldn't say a mutual guy, but I play with a lot of passion. And this stuff like hockey or my team means so much to me. So like sometimes I cannot get too high. And that's what I try to work on. You know, play with a passion, but don't go too crazy sometimes or don't be too calm, like finding the ways. And I feel like this year, you know, it's been, I'm still learning mature and how to control. So this is like, I feel like, as I said, like I can be like the dark horse, but like you know how to control me, myself. And like I feel like with Pete and Marco, like they are doing a really good job. Like controlling me and putting me in the right direction and keeping me humble and all that. But as I said, like I feel like I could still improve in the mental side of the game. And obviously being a better goalie is part of it too. But like, I feel like the best goalies that ever played, they were always strong mentally. So that's, I feel like strong mentally goalies without less skill is still a good goalie. Last question for you. Do you ever use the Stanley Cup in any of your visions or your writing? Yeah, it's in my book. I, yeah, I do have it drawn up. Can I ask how? It's like, I drew the Stanley Cup and there is like dream with a big letters and pray. And I saw it and every morning it's in my, it's, I have a book that is separate and then I have another book where it's whatever. And yeah, I just, every morning I read that I like, I wrote or drew before playoffs and to remind myself to practice or game what I wanna accomplish. And the night before a bet, I focus on a game specifically and yeah, I try to attack it differently. You know, it's a different series now. So yeah. That's all, that's all. Thanks so much for sharing all that. I really appreciate that. And I'm serious, there's gonna be young kids who watch this and they're gonna start doing exactly what you do. Also, I mean, as long as they get better and they have five minutes. Yeah, that's what I do. Yeah. Great, cool. Our thanks once again to Yakov Dobysh and the Montreal Canadians for setting that up last week. Okay, one game in the Stanley Cup Playoff schedule tonight. It goes in Denver at Ball Arena for those listeners up in Canada. Hockey Central, the pregame show has you covered at 730 Eastern, 430 Pacific Time, leading up to Puck Drop a little after 8ET on SportsNet and CBC, the Avalanche, trying to punch their ticket to the Western Conference Final, holding a 3-1 series lead there. Then on Thursday, a pair of games, again, Game 5, Montreal and Buffalo, that will also have a hockey central pregame tee-up. This one at 630 Eastern Time, 330 Pacific. And then game number five from Keybank Center, a little after 7ET, SportsNet, CBC for that as well. Game six from Anaheim, Cam LaDux, force a game seven against Vegas. That'll be a little after 930 Eastern from the Honda Center. It'll start on SportsNet 360 and then move to SportsNet once the Canadians and the Sabres are all wrapped up earlier on Thursday night. So those are the three games to look forward to. Before, we talk to you again on Friday. Enjoy your couple of days. Appreciate you as you have all year tuning into this show. 32 thoughts to the podcast. That'll do it for us. We will talk to you again on Friday.