The Executor | 1

A warning to our listeners. This series contains discussion of mental illness, suicide, and domestic abuse. My first inclination is, I think she was an assassin. She was very rough, but yet very kind. So she played a role real well. I think the part she played that was maybe a friendly person was... A total facade. Right, because I think to be able to live like that. If Steve is truly thinking she was an assassin, you have to be knowing motions. None whatsoever. Are you give yourself away? I think she must have been a very brilliant lady to be able to do the computer stuff like she did. And I think she was an organizer. To come to a town where you know no one supposedly and to be able to do what... It looks like she might have done. I just... I can't even imagine living your whole life like that. Not being able to tell somebody who you really are. I don't know. But it's really just strange. It really is. That's why you're here. You've got to create the best story there it is. I really don't believe she killed herself. She was there one day and then I said she didn't show up. Have we uncovered a conspiracy indirectly? Too many unenthusiastic questions. She was scared and got to choose a life after they said she was dead. If a stranger had to piece together who you were based on the things you left behind, who would they find? How would they tell the story of your life? Sue Knight was born and raised in England, but made a home for herself in small town Athens, Texas. All that ended in April of 1996 when she was only 43. More than 25 years later, the people who knew and loved Sue still have unanswered questions about who she was and how she died, or even if she died. Ever since I first heard about Sue, I've been determined to find as many answers as I can. I've been piecing together the fragments of Sue's life, and I've pulled in my researcher, Haley Nelson, my consulting journalist Bob Sullivan, and my executive producer Caroline Hamilton, to help me sort through the details. You'll hear from them later in the series. And then there's me, Jenna Burnett. I write and produce true crime podcasts, because I'm obsessed with a good mystery. I'll be your guide on this journey, but I won't be your narrator. In fact, you won't hear from me like this again, because this story is a tangled web that needs to be experienced firsthand. So, I'm giving you all the threads I've collected, all the perspectives I've heard, directly from the mouths of the people who lived, and continue to live this story. And you'll be the one to decide. Who was Sue Knight? Hello, testing. Are you on your talk? You got to give me the signal, Ray. It's come on now. Here we are, ladies and gentlemen, we're on co-many microphones. We'd like to present to you. You just cannot put a mic in front of him. I'm just telling you. I know it's bad. This is sound okay, you? Yes, I'm 30. You all ready? We're ready. I'm ready. I'm born ready. I'm Jamie, barks sell, lived and raised my whole life in Texas. We moved to Athens in 82, 81, and started our life here, and loved my life, loved my family, and yeah, that's me. My name is Steve Barkstale. I'm married to Jamie. The only way I can graduate college was to marry the president's daughter. He had a pretty good daughter, too, didn't he? He had a real pretty daughter. He had a real pretty daughter. But she's new to you. She was 20-20. I was a city girl. I really did. She was definitely a city girl. And I was a country boy. I'm an insurance specialist for commercial insurance. I'm a member of Rockio Baptist Church. And that's kind of where I am now. I've just been here in Athens since June of 1981. Sue Knight rented a property for us at the Bush Development Company. I work ran. Where did the bushes that he worked for? Were they related to the president? No, okay. I said it. I've never even thought about them then. Part of the bushes. No, when you said that, I'm like, oh, that is interesting. Yeah, but it'd been nice. When she came to our office back in those days, if somebody could put a deposit down at a first-month rent, there he is. We didn't have credit checks and we didn't do all that kind of stuff. And so that's how I first met her in her husband. Of course, the first thing you notice is her beautiful accent. You knew she was not from East Texas. I don't remember saying her many, many, many times. But she was just nice and, you know, I'm not a best friend, but very cordial and friendly. And the kids always wanted her to say something to talk because they loved her accent. She was blonde. Always friendly to me. Always would come in and pay her bills. That's really about the only time I would see her when she'd come pay the bills. She was, I don't know, best way to say this. You wouldn't want to mess with her. She just had that aura about her that I just never could. You know, you just wouldn't want to mess with her. She'd send, it was tough, things like that. But she was always nice to us. There was nothing that I remember meeting and seeing her that would have ever made me think anything other than she's just a nice girl that's here from England. But like I said, we were not on a friend basis. It was just... It's more of a client's base for me. It was and you would see her in town and hello, how are you good? You have my... But no, I did not know her well enough that anything would have triggered any questions at all. Yeah. Okay, here's some teas to go. You can put them in the... I don't have to leave. I'll just put them in the drawer. Did you get your tea to go? I got my tea right over there. All right, we ready to hit the road? Yes, I think so. I really quit just to... I went to clap three times to make... to give us a reference for all these mics to kind of know how they're going to tie them up together. I'll hold it a little bit when we have to throw it in there. I'll tell you what, I felt an important... I did too. I don't know if I've told you how long you had the file for. I didn't know if you had the file for just to make sure it's correct. Is that when you tell us to speak quiet? You have to do it really loud for him. But if you will just keep talking... Thanks, Jamie. You're welcome. I love you. I know you do. All right, this was not here. There was just a little straight here... when Sue rented the house. So this has all been development since that time. But the Bush family had about 60 rent houses that I ran into. We would rent them out. I'd had to oversee it and... No, we got calls all the time. I was on call 24-7 for eight years. The toilet won't swallow. That was our best one. I wasn't really high in housing, nothing, but... We had a few people in that place until they had it. I mean, for them, yeah. I was the original flipper. Never paid more than $18,000 for a house and... never sold one less than $45 and they said they know it and they made good money. But she rent it on Mitchell Street and I had two houses on Mitchell Street I always wonder why she wanted that house. That's where she lives. Yeah, that's where she lives. It looks like kind of native repair. So that's the one she rented. That's one she rented with her husband. How long did she rent from you? I don't know. I mean, I got out at 88 in 1988 and I think she had already left and about that other house or with somewhere else. I don't know. And you said you encouraged her to buy a house instead of renting? Is that right? Yeah, she asked about it and asked, you know, if you can afford a house and, you know, don't throw your money away, try to buy if you can. But that's been a long time ago. I think it was back in 1996. I got a call from Milton Adams who was our Justice Peace and he's a friend of mine. And anyway, he calls, says, Stays said, do you remember Sue Knight? And I said, well, yeah, I don't remember saying I have her insurance. Well, that's why I'm calling. And I said, we're trying to find next to Ken. And I said, well, what happened? So, well, we found her dead a week or so ago. And I said, oh, my goodness, what from? We asked, probably just got sick and threw up and choked herself. I thought, well, I hate that. And I said, well, let me go look and file see if I see anything. Because sometimes we write next to Ken. And I said, Milton, I don't think I had anything, but let me look in the file. And it was just like, I know this sounds really weird, but it is just like God said, hey, don't you remember? And then all of a sudden, kind of like this flashback happened, a me sitting with Sue in my office out of the cemetery. She'd come in and pay rent, and then she came in and said, hey, I need to talk to you. I'm leaving the country for a couple months. What do I do with my stuff? And well, I just said, well, you know, let your husband, is he going with you? And he said, no, I'm no longer married. And I said, well, in Texas, you go down to the lawyer's office and tell me you need to make a wheel. And that was 10 years prior. So, she was what, 32 at the time. And it was kind of weird that, tell her that, but that's what you had to do if you were leaving the country, and you wanted to take care of it. She made the comment that what happens if I get killed, I want to make sure my stuff's taken care of. And I think 2020 hindsight, I think she was just wanting to make sure her cat was taken care of. I really did. So, I told her where to go downtown, and why I remembered that when Milton called. I don't know. That was in 86 and 96 that were making the conversation about her death. But that's what happened. I told Milton the story, told him, you know, Milton, you might go down and check with Melvin Baglan or my George and see if she might have done something. I don't know. He said, well, I'll call you back. He calls me back. So, well, there's a, there is a wheel. I said, oh, that's great. He said, well, who's the trustee? Who gets the wheel, that thing? And he said, well, a cat. And I said, what? A cat named Mr. Foster. I said, this is crazy. And I said, well, who's the exacter? You are. The Bush family. They had several businesses. And one was an insurance agent. And that's what they brought me in to do. And they sold the agency. And then I ran this cemetery, along with the water company, developing company. And this was my office here, caught up on the moral part. But we had Bush development in here. That is actually where the conversation about the wheel. The wheel. Yeah. Got started in that front room right there. I used to have 5,000 people directly under me. And they were having a ploy uprising. They're much dead beings. I really were. I ran this cemetery. I'm telling you. Why did she come to you? Do you know? Well, I think first was, I was an acquaintance of her, because she ran into the house. And then like one time she asked, if you know everybody's hiring and said not for sure, but you ought to go down to the car dealership, evidently she went down there and got a job. So I guess that's the only thing I can say is that I don't think there's anything magical about her asking, or taking the advice from me, it's just that I was a person that could help her. You know, she trusted my opinion, I think. And you know, I do think that he just is who he is. And he is what he is. And some people that I have told, Steve was the executive, and they were like, well, you could look all over Athens and people would pick Steve because he's trustworthy. And I'm like, well, okay, okay. But, you know, I would help that that's the reason and that she did trust him. And what little she knew of me, she trusted us. But he is trustworthy. And when he says something, he's going to do what he says he will do. Did you know what your responsibilities were as an executive? When you were a couple? At that time, I knew I had just had to follow the wheel. And I didn't know what the wheel was. So I was waiting for them to bring me the wheel. And they brought me the wheel from the lawyer's office. And I read it and I'm thinking, oh my God, what did I got to do now? Did you consider saying no at any point? Do you have that choice? I don't think I ever consider saying no. I just said, well, somebody thought enough of me to meet there. I'll follow through because there's a dead person now. And I wouldn't want to go back on that. Because I really know what I was getting into. That's very obvious. What I do remember I was saying, doesn't someone have to ask you if you want to be the executive, but obviously not, unless you don't have to sign anything. So just future reference. When someone asks you, would you be the executive of my state? Oh, sure. No big deal. But it is a huge responsibility. It is. And you never know what it may bring. Judy Newman, out of the Malakoff office for Mike George, is the one that brought me the paperwork. And I read it and I'm sitting on the floor. What I do. So she said, well, you got to go get the keys from police department because they locked it down. I said, OK, so I went down to the police department. And that's when I ran into Chief Harris. And Chief Harris was probably 62 and weighed about 375, 380. And he was the barney five top guy. You know, just really old town, you know, that top time. But good, hard in everything. And I walked in the door and Chief comes up, barks at what? And the world you got in volume. Do you know anything about this lady? How did you become the executive? I said, Chief, I don't know. This is an unknown executive. I had no idea about this. And that's when he took me back to his office. And he said, here are the two boxes that we collected and opened the box one. And it was all sexual paraphernalia. And I'm sitting there going, well, I don't wouldn't know what to do with this stuff. You're going to keep this chief and we'll have to and everything. And that's all the stuff. And then the second box was what he was concerned about. He said, no, anything about these guns. There were three guns, two of them had raffle scopes. And there were no ammunition. He had confiscated all the ammunition. And I'm sitting there going, I didn't know that police did that. They said they had to secure the house. And that's why they had the guns. That's when I first realized that I was the executive. I'm knowing executive of an estate of a lady I really don't know. And how am I going to tell Jamie? We're going to talk for quite a bit. Do you want to take a break? Sure. Do you want to do lunch? Sure. Now I'm just going to tell you all. Steve may see lots of people that he knows. Lots of people. It's like he's running for it, but he's just that way. I mean, I know that's anybody. These may all be jealous people that none of us know. I don't, I'm not nearly as outgoing as he is. And I have to remind him sometimes we're on a date. And people will stop saying, you know what? Yeah, just going to a real quick question. 30 minutes later they're still asking him an entrance question. And I'm like, just talk to him. Just say, you know, I'm at the line. But he's not going to do that. Is y'all can see? That's the talk. I love it. It's perfect. Well, it's good for us. It's good for us. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Here I am. I'm ready to say hello to him. Can I get you to wave at the bartender and tell him I take care of it? Hey, I'll do it. Well, I've got better looking, man. I'm just going to be lying now. How y'all doing? I don't think I've met all these gentlemen. I've seen some of my thick parties. The Steve Barclays to meet you. I'm glad y'all got the eggs with you. It's already interrupt your comments. How you doing, brother? I'm here to see you again. Take care. Hey, how y'all doing? They're looking dapper out. I don't have time. No, Steve Barclays now. You're staying in trouble, but I'm good at that. You're looking dapper. Thanks for what you're doing. Y'all take care. You can see. Well, the crowd was good. Are you situated? Yeah, thanks, sir. Well, let me just tell you this. Jamie's not a very trusting person. So what is the first thing that I had to deal with? Or you had an affair with her? And I wasn't. So I wasn't worried about that. But I could never get her to believe me. But you did. You originally didn't think where they closer than I thought. Yeah, I did. Absolutely, I did. And with the experience we had had with some friends of ours, both of them having affairs, yeah, yeah. I think I'm not trying to rationalize them saying that, any wife would, but I do think that it was not an abnormal feeling that I had. I just kept saying, I just don't, I hear you, but I just don't understand why someone would do that. But it comes a point where either it's you alive or you just have to say, why am I letting this destroy something I have? Besides the executive ship, was there anything about Sue that would make you wonder that? Not at all. No, she was not an attractive person. I didn't think at all. I never thought that. And I never thought that there was anything she said to him or to me. No. I mean, Steve will tell you, I am, I am not a real trusting person. And I'm not proud of it. I'm not proud of not trusting him that it's just once it happened, I'm like, hmm, that was, that is a little odd. So, yeah. Truth comes out, and I'm worried about it, because I know I didn't do anything. Anyway, Borswe had a lot of crying and yelling and screaming. And, you know, I did not have sex with the woman, you know, it's that thing. But it was, you know, it was a burden on her. Hi, buddy. Where have you been? I have to talk to my donkey, sorry. Hi, buddy. Come here. You got, I can't get any closer. Come on, buddy. Come on, buddy. Come on. Jamie, play with the jackass. Come on. Oh my goodness. What a cutie. Oh, come on. You might have taken picture of it. You got it all. A cutie. Hi. Oh, you are so cute. And, sweet. His ears are like, satin. I don't know. Come here, buddy. You all over. Oh, the car is starting. All right. I'll see you in a little bit. Bye, buddy. If he sees me, he will just come over. Until I give you... See you later, buddy. All right. He's just have such sweet faces. I know it. But he's a pretty one. Okay, yeah, you're right. You know. Steve, take him by her house. Okay, that's what I want to do. Because you're right here. Yeah, I agree. Well, I totally forgot to take him to the house. So thank you for reminding me. I know there was one thing I couldn't figure out what I was doing. All right. Y'all just stay in that lane. Stay. Stay. I'm coming past you. There you go. All right. This is Woodland Circle. This is where she lived. It's this house right here. What does it look like anything the same? No, it doesn't. Because you should do that. It's just a lean-to carport cover. Yes. And they had the boards over. That's right. Two bedrooms on this side and had a big... I mean, big. It didn't have big anything. Oh, yeah. A little living room. A little kitchen. A little kitchen. A little kitchen. Yeah. Do the modest delivery right here? I think they live in a house right across street. Shorty? Yeah. Is he the one who told you about the cat? Mm-hmm. That was another thing that came up in Haley as our researcher in her looking into all of this. And she found vet records for Sue's cat. But the vet records that she found were for a cat named Duchess. Really? So a female cat. And I know that the cat that everything was left to was named Mr. Foster. Mm-hmm. Well, I do know that Shorty knew who didn't Shorty call him the cat by name. When you said you were looking for the cat. Yes. Or did he just say all that cat? I kept that when they moved in. But did he call it Mr. Foster? No. He didn't call it Mr. Foster. He just said that cat that. Yeah, that cat that. So you may have a point there. Huh. Can you sort of walk me through the third house? What you remember? What I remember is the opening of the door in the stench. Both with the smoking and with the smell of death. I mean, it was, you know, how if you're out in a field and you have an animal that is tied to the ground, it's actually worse than that. Yeah. It's a different scent. And it sticks with you. I knew the end that we couldn't go much farther into it. But we just kind of walked around just real quick, just take a risk deal. And that's when we found a lot of different things that we had questions about. When we walked in the front living room, there was kind of a... Is it a sectional? Sectional. Thank you. Cloth. Cloth. Cloth. Cloth. Right. Very small room that you walk into. I mean, it was very small. We have the size of this room right here. Oh, yeah. And well, the whole house was only probably eight hundred nine hours' worth of feet. So, if I tell you anything, walked into kitchen and walked into kitchen. It was just sad. I mean, there was a... There was a small table with two little chairs. Two chairs. There was a rack. But it didn't have anything on the rack except a couple of those tea cups. I mean, I don't think she had any knives and forks. Very, very few. But now, the cups and saucers look like they had just been freshly washed and they were turned over, like, next to the sink. They weren't in a cabinet. And I said, ooh, these... I turned them over. Oh, these are really pretty. And we noticed that one of them said England. It kind of had that shield, a coin of England or something. And we were like, oh, wow. This is a pop-shrug over with her. There were two or three of them. But she had very little in there, very little. Very sad. I mean, it was sad. I mean, looked in the refrigerator. Nothing. Looked in the cabinet for food. Very little ramen noodles and nothing in the freezer. Did you see any alcohol, do you remember? No alcohol. No, we didn't see any alcohol at all. Was there anything that was like an indicator of who she was as a person? Like the personality. Was there... There were no pictures on the wall. Very few books. Lots of VCR tapes. She had nothing. Nothing... No personal items. There was a one picture that was like a landscape. But it wasn't even a nice... It wasn't a photo, but it was a... Looks like something. You might have bought it goodwill or something. You know, it was just not a very nice picture. As far as I can remember, that is the only thing I remember on the wall. I don't even remember like jewelry or nothing. It was just very generic. The house, everything about it. When I walked in to the next room, her bedroom, it was reaped, you know, with just the smell. And we really looked, but Jamie opened the closet door. And that's when we discovered that all her clothes were... They were inside out and that was just real odd. And they've been in the drawers, the things that her drawers were inside out also, which was so strange. What kind of clothes did she wear? Very... Not my style. And that just very, very plain. Not a lot of color. No, that's right. No color. And then we got out of that and went to the bathroom. I don't remember the bathroom. Yeah, well, because you can't get the one person in there. But I opened up the cabinet behind the toilet. And prescription drugs. I mean, filled on the shelves, underneath the bathroom, saying, everywhere on the top sink, or the top cabinet. If there wasn't 20 different peel bottles on the top cabinet, then there wasn't one. If you had to sort of bulk our gas, then I'm wearing bottles. How many would you say? 200, 200, 300, probably. I literally put a bag in it. And it might have been for several years that she just didn't get rid of. But I took a black plastic garbage bag. And I got in there and I've watered it up. And it was at least, you know, heavy enough to half of the bag was full. On a 55 gallon drum, black bag. It was a little interesting that the police didn't take that. Didn't take that. And then we walked outside the back door where she had put up a makeshift room. Where she just put plywood up. It was a car port. And all it was, it had kind of asphalt, dirt, floor. And there's like a storage room. And that's when we discovered a lot of different letters, names. Yeah, they were just like bills. And the first one you'd look at might have Susan Knight. And then the letter right behind it would say Susan Jones Smith. And then the next one might say Susan Smith Knight. Susan Coggin and Susan. I mean, they had all different, I mean, I couldn't, I don't remember any of the names. But they were, you would see five envelopes. And they were all addressed to the same address. But none of them were the same, Susan Knight. And it was just so strange. It was like, wait, how did she keep up with all these different names? And it was very, and I don't remember if any of them were open. I'm thinking that a whole bunch of the mail we saw was not even open. Right. They were all different names, which was very strange. We walked out there and saw the teddy bears. Jamie might saw those first and they were just kind of thrown all over the place. I'm thinking they were all like, they were all the same color, like a dark color. I can't remember if it was blue, but we walked in there and you'd see one and its head would be off. And the stuffing would be coming out. And then you'd see another one and maybe a leg or two would be off. And the stuffing would be coming out. And I'm like, stay for a look at all of these teddy bears. I mean, and they were just all over the floor. How many would you do that? Oh, I would say 20 maybe. And you kind of had to step around them because they were on the floors. And the stuffing would be on the floor and I thought, wow, this is odd way to do things. But we just thought that she made them and maybe was making some extra money at the time, selling them to people that asked. Have you ever heard of her maybe selling them? No, I had not heard of her doing any. And we didn't sell any of them. We just gave them to a few people and then threw the rest of them away. Well, we didn't throw them away. We gave them to the estate group. Oh, that's true. That's true. But that's also where I found the box that had the baby clothes in it in the store-troom. Yeah. While I was back looking at the teddy bears, there was this box. And you know, we were looking just trying to find anything that would help us find somebody that knew her or something. And they probably maybe 15 pieces in this box. And you could tell it was infant, very, you know, newborn infant. Most of them handmade or real thin linen and blue booties and a little bonnet, a crochet bonnet that was white that had yellow. I remember had yellow. So I thought it made me think it was a girl. Had yellow thread. I mean, I've ribboned through it. And I said, Steve, I think she said a baby. I mean, I think there was a baby somewhere because I kept all of my kids' baby clothes. But it was just, and I can't even remember if I thought that they had been worn or not, that they were really cute little things. And I said, I just think maybe she, there was a baby somewhere. And none of them, they weren't dirty at all. Nothing was dirty in that box. Not any passes or anything like that. But that's the only thing that even made us think that there was a family or something somewhere. And then we walked out of that room into the computer room. And we're shocked to find a computer room. Which normally would have been a second bedroom. Right. But those in the olden days and they had walls. The excess wall area was floppy disk. I was in shock because we had just bought a brand new computer for our system. And I knew how much they cost. And I'm thinking, this is high in computer stuff. What does she do? And I saw all the floppy disk. Well, at that time, a floppy disk was probably worth 20 cents each. And there was probably thousands of them in that room. And when we walked in, everything was off. I mean, there was nothing on. It was just like they were just pretty cool computers. And had three computers, three screens. And I'm thinking, wow, this is unbelievable. And it was a lot smaller, which was shocking to me. Because I'd never seen anyone that small. Because we had a trash 80. And it was like, you know, a big old thing. And it was very, I guess you'd say, caused a lot of curiosity on my part. So this first time, you just did a quick walk. We just did a quick walk. I was ready to go. And I said, you got to get me out of here. And he probably would have stayed and looked around. But I had seen all I wanted to see. And the smell, I could hardly stand the smell. And so I was ready to go. I'm ready to go. So we left. And in the next morning, I called my friend Larry Beeman. And Larry was probably one of the best Macintosh computer wizards in Texas at the time. And so we went over for lunch. And he pulled it up and he got him up. And he said, huh, this is why I was saying this is high-end stuff. I don't understand a lot of this. He wrote down several things on a paddy. So I'm going to go back to the house. And let's come back tomorrow and look at it. Well, that evening, Jamie and I went back over there to try to make another. Because the smell is finally dissipated because of the ozone machine I got. And it was a lot better. I mean, I can be brief. And we went back and we started looking through things. And about the time we got to the living room after we'd been in the bedroom, we heard this, oh, I'm lucky enough, huh? What is that, Jamie? I don't know. We got to get out of here. Right. I was scared to death. It was scary. And back in those days, we didn't have silent computers. I mean, when they come up, they're powering up. And it's a lot of power. And it's a lot of light stung. So I knew that it had to be those computers. So I walked back there. They're all going. And I'm sooner going, what the heck? Because I didn't see them all before. And I thought, how did this happen? Nobody's in the room. I didn't turn them on. Did you turn them on, Jamie? No. What's going on? It got scary. So we left. Next day, Larry calls, said, hey, let's go over there again. I think I found some information. I like to check on it. So I take him over there. And Larry walks in, and he sits at the computer, and he's there. And I could tell he was frustrated. He says, Steve, the hard drives are gone. I said, the hard drives are gone. And then I told him what had happened the night. He said, oh, they did this remotely. This is high end stuff. This is high sophisticated stuff. I said, what did you say they laid the dead again? And he is going to believe me that she was this cashier. Well, that brought suspicion. And then that evening is when we got the call from the CIA. Coming up on undercover of night. That's something Sooner ever talked about. Well, I can look into it. Sooner is very bubbly. Shoulder wicked sense of humor. She was very scary to a lot of people. She did for girl. And when I saw that photo, I was like, oh my goodness shit. Part of me questions that she actually committed suicide. No, absolutely not. That's crock. She just wasn't that type of personality. She had wandered so her hair. Sandy Brown. She is a dirty blonde. She was a green man. I'm an expert in a green man. I can't confirm any of these things. We have no idea if that's true. I am a former CIA officer and FBI special agent. I specialize on intelligence and counterterrorism. Cybersecurity and computer crime. With a specific focus on Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland troubles. It felt like she was preparing me. If she left, not to be surprised if she just disappeared. Undercover of night is an Apple original podcast. Produced by spoke media and Castle View productions. Our writer, host and showrunner is me, Jenna Burnett. Our associate producers are Lucy Huang and Raya's Mendoza. Our researcher is Haley Nelson and our consulting journalist is Bob Sullivan. Sound design and original music by Will Short, with additional music from Universal Production Music. Story consulting by Bergen Mosley. Our executive producers are Caroline Hamilton, Sherita Lynn Solis, Ted Barnhill, Heather Mansfield, Jornigan, Amalia Tavikolian, and Keith Reynolds. If you have any information on Soon Night, you can email us at infosoonnight at gmail.com. If you or someone you know needs support, go to apple.com slash here to help for resources. Special thanks to Steven Jamie Barkstale for sharing their story. Follow on Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening. You