Put in the Work with Spike Lee

I have something called I don't have this clergy clergy clergy Michelle Obama, how are you? In my opinion, I am delighted to be here. Ah, that's cute. I am so happy to see you in your bright yellow. Yeah, I got a little yellow, I got a little sparkle going on. And so it's like, yeah, I think, yeah, I felt like dressing up for our guests today. Yeah. But what's been going on with you? Not much. I've been, actually, I've been on the road with the kids for summer hoops. So there's been a little bit more than usual, but loving my time popping in to say hi to you and a couple of guests. So really excited. You know, you're in quickly like I am traveling. And I'm staying at this Airbnb in Georgetown. And it's really neat, but you know what's really neat other than being able to walk around the neighborhood and get a coffee or get something to eat and everything's in walking distance, even our dinner last night. But the host lives nearby and he was kind enough to come by and say hello. Oh, that's nice. And often give me a tour of the spot. It was really neat. And we've been so busy. I haven't been able to take them up on it, but I will do that the next time I'm here, because I think I'll stay here again. Well, that's kind of the, that experience, when we think about when we had Brian Chesky on, who's the founder and CEO of Airbnb, it sounds like your experience is more along the lines of how he initially envisioned the Airbnb experience. You would actually stay in the home of someone and kind of get to know them. Yeah, yeah. It's more communal. More communal. And I think this is the first time you've met the host. This is, this is. And so you know what? It feels less transactional. It was really, really nice. And I would encourage owners to do that. Yeah, yeah. Well, shout out to the Airbnb host in Georgetown, who is looking after my big brother. Thank you for making him feel at home. So we got, we got a good conversation planned for this episode. We do. We do. This is not only gonna be a good, this is gonna be a fun conversation. I'm looking really looking forward to it. Spike Lee is an Academy Award winning director, producer, writer, actor and author who helped revolutionize modern black filmmaking. He's a graduate of Morehouse College and New York University's Tisch School of Arts, where he is a tenured professor of film and artistic director. His newest film is Highest to Lois, streaming now on Apple TV Plus. And you and I both got to preview this. Yeah, we're gonna, we get to talk to him about that. We can't wait to talk to him. About that. It's a great project. Yeah, so without any further ado, Mr. Spike Lee. The one, the only, in the flesh on the site. Sis. Love you sweetie. Love you, love you. Oh man, brother man. Thank you for this. What's up? No, what happened? So we, Thank you for. Well, we concocted this visit just a couple of days ago. Cause Spike and Tanya came over. We were having a little, having a little meal. A little something, something like we do in the vineyard. Cause I love Spike, but I love Tanya even more. Probably a little, yeah, she, she, I understand. You, you should, you should understand. Cause Tanya is real, the real star. Yeah, she's, she's. Beautiful, smart. You know, you start wondering, how'd you do that, Spike? Tell her you have some game back in the day. Just many tell it in time stop. Did, okay. All right. So tell us, okay. Tell us the origin story. Well, I was in for the congressional black caucus weekend. Okay. And I was there to show a couple of scenes from, from Malcolm X. I had a date. Oh. So as I was going to the restroom and she was going to the restroom, we saw each other. Okay. Where was your date? She's like, go to the men's room with me. You left her in the, in her chair. Spike, you wait here. No, I said to go to the restroom. So we paused and looked at each other. And it's so, I got out there and, you know, gave her a little speech and we showed the clip and people loved the film. Denzel Washington's, Denzel's Malcolm, come on now. Yeah. And so night went on and I was looking for, looking for time to rest at night, but it was time to go. So I'm going down the escalator with my date at night. And she's going up the escalator. So I said, I got to the bottom. Well, we, we, we, we looked at each other like it was like this. Truly ships. Passing. It wasn't no, no, Google eyes, not like that, but it was just a look. So I got to the bottom of the elevator on the escalator. You know what? I forgot my monk, monk, pen. You lied. No, he acted. He's an actor. He's like, wow. Really, black. This is a monk, monk. You know what I'm saying? You almost said, ten costs back then. That type of money. And we exchanged numbers. And the rest is history, her story. Okay. I never heard that story. I like that story. That's sweet. Now I got to get her version of it. I'm going to do that when we get back to the venue. Well, that's beautiful. You, you, you, Spike is my brother. We've gotten to know each other. Over the years and real getting to know, you know? Cause it's, And, and I don't like the same behalf of a time I we, we're in the island and we get an invitation from our peoples, our folks. Yeah. So we concocted this, this, this, this episode visit over dinner. Yes. We were talking about the new film, which we'll get into. Can I just jump real quick? Please. Can we talk about your first day? Well, you know, cause who hasn't? Yes. This is another reason, another thing that connects us. Yes. The Obama's deeply to the leaves and to Spike in particular. When I see Barack, I say, good thing. Good thing you made that movie. No, good thing you say we're going to see drivers days. Yeah. That's like excuse me. Excuse me. Well, as the story goes, I wasn't real clear that it was appropriate for me to date my husband, right? Because we worked in the same place. Right. You know, we probably want to handful of black folks, but he was persistent and he said, you know, who cares what these folks think, you know, we want to, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, we want to go out, we should just give it a shot. So I acquiesced and he planned a beautiful day. Didn't even know it was just sort of one of those dates that go on and on. Started with the lovely time spent at the Art Institute. You know, he was showing all his sides, you know, his cultural artistic side. He was bringing it. He was backing. You know. That's the word. Walking slowly as he, you know, noticed things in the Monet and the list and the that. And then we had lunch in the courtyard and the Art Institute. And if you know Chicago, it's one magnificent mile. So down Michigan Avenue from the Art Institute is on the South end. We strolled all the way North, walking, talking all the way. You know, the evening starts, the day is starting to unfold. I'm starting to see new sides of him. I'm starting to look at him a different way. I think we had dinner, Lake Point Tower, which is further down, lovely sky view. So nice restaurant, good food. And then he says, we should take in a movie, do the right thing. Had just come out. It was the first weekend. And if anybody knows anything about Spike Lee and his movies, you know, they were a happening. They still are a happening. And so do the right thing was a thing you had to see. And the fact that this brother was hit to the fact that we needed to see it on its opening night, it was impressive. So we watched the movie. It was phenomenal, you know, controversial. Did he do the right thing? He did, he did the right thing. Do you want to garbage can't do South, save his piece of real window? But then after, because do the right thing is the kind of movie that after you watch it, you got to talk about it, you know? I mean, now you find out, you know, I found out his character, you know, did he see what I see? Did he have the feelings that I felt that he, did he get what I got out of the movie? So we talk for hours after the movie, like everyone would tend to do. And I would say that that date probably sealed the deal. And wasn't driving his days there. Was not driving his days. It was not driving his days. The Cattie Ward winner. Yes. Best picture. Yeah. No, that didn't do it. It was Spike Lee's joint. Thank you Spike for this. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Spike is like, I wanna hear that story. But the first time I ever heard it from my sister, I read about it. Oh. The women have it. But wasn't it last summer, the two summers ago you gave us the sign. The street sign. The street sign. Yeah. But it was not. Which was, we got this is, this is like, you know, fancy friends. Because you gave us a do the right thing street sign. Street got renamed do the right thing. We got renamed. We got a sign that is signed by Spike Lee. It's in the house. Well, you know. Thank you for that. Thank you. Spike is a thoughtful person. And I haven't known him as long as you have. But I will tell our audience that when we had dinner together at your house on the vineyard, Spike found out from my wife that our two youngest kids Austin and Aaron were big Knicks fans and Spike Lee fans. And the funny thing is, and everybody who's our age is gonna laugh at this, they weren't old enough to watch your movies yet at that time. And he said, I hope not. But then you remember what you said. He was like, they can watch Crickland. That's the one. That's the one. They can watch Crickland. That's it. And he was as protective of them as we were. And he made the movies. That was what was funny. But you, I don't know if you remember this, but you, and well, I'm jumping around here. The funny part is they only know you as a Knicks super fan. That's your claim to fame. That was your claim to fame to them. So when they heard they were coming over to dinner, they were excited. So what does Spike do? He takes a stroll with them in your backyard, about 75 yards down and back and just taught. And you can see Spike, one's on one side, one's on the other. And who's doing all the talking? Spike. And then you see the guy saying something and you see, and- We're all wondering what are those two doing? What are those three talking about? How old were they at that time? So that, this was how many years ago? Three years ago? I don't know. They were probably 12 and 10. Is there 15 and 13 now? Yeah, yeah. They can see quickly, but they're almost at the point, thanks to Malia, she wants them to see some R rated stuff. So- That wasn't me. I know, I know it wasn't you. They're older now. They're older now. But my point is, you have- I mean, you have- He's a generous spirit. You are a generous soul because- And kids are very important to you. I mean, anytime there are young people, in our presence, Spike, you will go, you bird's eye to the young people. And now, Tanya says that's because you are a big old kid yourself. Oh, she said- She said more than that. She said more than that. She said more than that. You are crazy. It doesn't matter, 30 years. Oh man, I'ma get you out of trouble. Spike, what is- What's your favorite film that you have made? Or do you have a favorite? I know you probably get this all the time, but we've never talked about this. I'm gonna, if I could turn your question around. Please. This back to school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. You know, Misha, I've had such fun memories of our kids' first day of school, and I'm just thinking back to when we would get them ready and go shopping for school supplies and how excited they got over a new t-shirt. I know, right, right. A new pair of shorts. New pencils, all the excitement over decorating their lockers. Lockers. One of the things that I used to do in preparation for school, because our summers in the White House got pretty exciting. I mean, it was usually when we did an international trip because the girls were away. So summers were fun. It was camp, and I found that a couple of years, they weren't mentally ready to get back to school because they were having so much fun. Right. Right, so I started employing a strategy that fun had to stop two weeks before school started. Oh, Misha. So that they would be no fun, nothing planned, just bored. So that by the end of that two weeks, they would be begging me to go to school. Ready to just go back. So I learned that strategy, because if it's fun up until the end, they're like, why would we want summer to stop? That's tough. And when we were growing up, we were always ready for school because summers would drag on forever. Yeah, because even when we went to day camp, that ended in the end of July. So awesome. So August was like... You had debt speeds. You had to figure out your own playing. Well, I tell you, these kids have really been spoiled with vacations and all this great stuff, but I really look forward to back to school and the excitement at our house now. It's more about what day you get your haircut. You gotta get the fresh cut close enough to the start of school so that it's still fresh. And for us this year, it's gonna be a tough one because it's the weekend of Labor Day. So we... It's very dicey. Those fresh aircuts are gonna be like four or five days old by the time they get to school. And then there was just the back to school shopping, which I must say, it cannot relate to because as First Lady, it was very hard for me to do the back to school shopping with the motorcade and police and all of that. I remember when we used to run around to a million different stores chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes, calculators. Now with Amazon, everything you could ever need can be purchased from anywhere you are. You can be on vacation, a sports field and get all of it delivered fast right to your doorstep. One click, no stress. And with Amazon's low back to school prices, you can spend less on your kids. Who could ask for anything more? When people come up, the total strangers come up to me. More people say Crookland than any other film. Yeah, wow. Wow, you're right. They more than Malcolm X is just that family. Yeah. That's the film people love, not just Black Poles. It's just that family. And Delroy played my father. We would have played my mother. And so my mother had to be the tough cop because my father was like, Daddy, could you come out to win? Oh yeah, go ahead, but just don't hurt yourself. Yeah. So she was forced to be the cop. And so we grew up sometimes not liking our mother because she and I do nothing. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm old as a five. We were crazy. We were just wild, Brooklyn kids. And my mother had to be a disciplinarian because otherwise it would not have been good. And so I feel bad. Like we saw all of us, our mothers is a bad, yeah, yeah. The sheriff. Yeah. Cause we, she wouldn't let us do nothing. And so you mad at her and she's holding it down for everybody. Holding it down. Holding it down. So that's why I think people think Brooklyn, these told strangers, they say, they name them all they says, up my favorite is, Brooklyn and not just black folks too. Did you always want to know that you wanted to go to be a filmmaker? No, that came late. I just went to the movies to, well, I went to the movies. This is, you know, screaming. I miss like the early 60s. So, you know what I tell you when I say, film chose me, cinema chose me. It was an eye and shoe cinema. How so? Summer of 1977, one of the most infamous summers in New York, New York's history. And I had a friend, her name is Vietta Johnson, smart. Do you wish? Did she go to Princeton? Yes. Let me tell the story. Let me tell the story. So Vietta and I grew up together. Okay. And went to Stuyvesant. The top high school. Yeah, Stuyvesant High School, yeah. Broken Tech was on the block of my office as Stuyvesant in Science. Yeah. And so she was always smart. And that summer, New York City was broke. There's a famous front page of daily news for the city drop dead that's present before. So I came up for the summer and there were no summer jobs. So I wanted to come make some money so I could ask for fresh clothes going back to school in the fall. And that summer, all we would do was play sports, you know, stick ball, stoop ball, stuff like that. And this day changed my life. There's no BS. I went to see Vietta. She lived in the University of Towers, on the other side of Fort Green Park. Rang the bus, said, come on up. So she's studying for some tests. SA-Tuerra was. So we're sitting in the living room and there's a box. This is a true story. This day changed my life. So what's in that box? She said, oh, it's a Super 8 camera my father gave me. I don't want it. So what's in another box? It's a cartridge for the Super 8. You can have it. Well, your father gave it to you. He gave it to me, but I'm gonna be a doctor. Right. Yeah. She was studying for some, LSA-T, whatever it was. And so now I had something to do for the summer. Wow. How old were you? I was a 77. Oh yeah, you had to be, she had to be a junior. 20 years old, I was 157. So now I have something to do. So I spent the whole summer filming. And that summer was a summer to a blackout. So when it happened, my father dropped me around to see my fellow barwequers, Puerto Ricans, and my brother and sister's looting. I had all dragging cars, Cadillacs, out through the wind. So you're in the middle of the looting, catching it all. So I come back to school for my junior year, and I declare my major, mass communications. More than I had that, but Clark is across the street. Yeah. Yeah. So I declare myself mass communications, mass communications, which is film, TV, print journalism, and radio. And this teacher helped turn around, his name is still Dr. Herb Eichelberger. I told him about this footage I have. He said, you should make a documentary. He encouraged me. On days where he didn't have to work, he would come in and open up the office center for film. So I made this, the film was called Last Hustle in Brooklyn, home of the last hustle in Paris brand-one. Anyway, no, that's something I brand-one for. Yeah, yeah. But I made the film, worked on it first in my, spring semester, I showed my class, and that got a response. So then in there, I said, I'm gonna be a filmmaker. Wow. Wow. So I was focused. Yeah. Graduated to Morehouse. I wanna go to film school. I applied to the three best film schools, USC, AFI, American Film Institute, and NYU. Okay. At that time, they get into AFI and USC, you had to get an astronomical score on a GRE. Okay. I did not get the astronomical score. NYU, all you had to do was submit a creative portfolio. Oh, and you had your documentary. Wow. And I could, first of all, at that time, I even had my driver's license. So it would have been crazy being in LA. Mm-hmm. But now I'm, typical New Yorker. I know, really. That's how you thought. I just like, what was I thinking? I was like, wait a minute, aren't you? Driver's license, cause Tanya said, I'm tired of driving you around. Yeah. And you just barely get to Ray Ray. Well, we don't need a driver's license to you. That's right. So you say USC is out. It's out. It's true. So, came to NYU, Ang Lee and Ernest Dickerson were my class. Ernest shot all my stuff. He went, Ang Lee was in your class. Yeah. Ernest from Howard. So right away, more on some Howard. We were like, yeah, yeah. So Ernest shot all my stuff. And my thesis film was, a film called Joe's Bedside Bars, that we cut heads, won a student academy award. Mm-hmm. And then later Ernest shot for me together. She's gonna have it. School days do right thing. More better blues, jungle fever and Malcolm X. Wow. Man. So. All because Vietta gave you her father's camera. You know? That was not an accident. So wait. That was not some happenstance. That was God, I love, where we wanna call it. All right, so crazy connection. Vietta Johnson was one of my brothers' first girlfriends at Princeton. Did she run track then too? She ran track. She ran track. Here's the thing, I've never seen public place. Eric. But I... Hey Vietta, by the way. I've never even told Vietta that. Uh-huh. Oh, she doesn't know? She never knew I liked her. She was always like... Do you like Vietta? Everybody likes her. Everybody likes her. Give you a feeling. Yeah. I didn't like her. I liked it, did he? You liked it. You liked it, liked it, liked it. You liked it, did he? Well, that was crazy. Girlfriends. See, that's why y'all like each other. The black clothes in some Puerto Ricans is really... That's crazy. That's Rosie Brunner. I liked it. That's crazy. And then... What happened? With Vietta? Yeah. You tried to get in your business. It didn't work out. It didn't work out. Clearly. She dropped me. But that's okay. I mean... He was young. He was a young... Wait, wait, wait. He was a younger... He was a younger... That was a really nice club, man. Kindred spirits. I was too young for her. He was a freshman. You know where she's from, right? Where? Brooklyn. The people's... Well... The people's... Republicans broke it. So you... That might have been a little bit... That might have been a little bit rich. Well, I'm glad we shared that. Because Vietta should know. I know that. She should know that story. Yeah. But I always think about that. You know, life goes this way. That's right. That way. You knocked on her door. That day. No, right then. Rang the bell. Sorry. Yes. But if her father... If she could not give her that super red camera... I wouldn't be here. You wouldn't be here. Or if she was interested in the camera herself. And she Vietta did become a doctor. So she was very clear. Yes. Yeah. I mean, life... I think about this one. I like that. I was like, God, that. That's crazy. Well, it's a good thing you were good at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you've had a pretty steady team throughout your film career. I mean, you see the credits. You see your same crew, your photographer, your... Is that your good luck charm? Do you... Is that normal in filmmaking? I would say... That people have those long, long relationships. Film after film. Well, you know that this... It's relationships. That can be part of film, sports, teams. Yeah. You know, so it's people you're comfortable with. And that you can flow with. And people that... Here's the important thing that you could... You trust their opinions. Yeah. Am I right or wrong? You're right. Because if some... You work with some Mama Luke's. You know, okay, Mama Luke's. Let's explain that for the people. It's a tiny American. We are a tiny American. My family was the first family to move into Kabul Hill because I was born in Atlanta. We moved into Kabul Hill, Brooklyn. It was stone. We were the first Black family. And so I began to think about the right thing in jungle fever. It came from being a child in a predominantly Italian-American neighborhood. So Mama Luke. Mama Luke is not... You don't want to be a Mama Luke. So when you trust someone, you know they have your best... One of the best for you. So they're not going to tell you some crazy stuff. Now, you don't... Somebody's repented on respect. You're not going to listen to that. Because you don't know where that's coming from. Right, right. And we all know in this room... In the room. We've taken... In the world, you've taken some advice or something. Yeah. And then say... Huh. Yeah, yeah. Mama, mama, mama. But when you're surrounded by people who want you to be the best you can be... Yeah. You can trust them. Yeah. And we've all seen... ...themes, guys that get along and this and that. And like it comes on the court. Yeah. Now, how was that game seven? May 19, 1970. Which game is this? Fill me in. The next First World Championship. Okay. Mr. Los Angeles Lakers. It's like, which game is this? I'm sorry. I'm talking about a team. Coach Red Holman. Starting five. Okay. Willis Reed. Dave DeBusher. All right. Bill Bradley. Dick Barnett recently passed away. This was before I even knew basketball. It all existed. But thank you. That's the team. Off the bench. Cazzie Russell. Yeah. Dave Storwell. Mike Reardon. How was that game? Okay. My father's lawyer had season tickets. He promised me there was a game seven. You can go. And it's the Willis Reed game. Willis Reed, game five got hurt. He didn't play game six. And I've been to Super Bowl World Cups World Series. I've never heard a noise. Crowd noise is loud when Willis Reed dragged his leg out. That noise. The teams, both teams are doing their layup line. The entire Laker team froze. Turn around. So Willis Reed dragged his leg. Because they thought they... What happened to his leg? Well, he had hurt his leg in game five. And didn't come out to warm up with the rest of the team. So the Lakers were thinking, okay, great. Willis Reed's not playing game seven. We're in good shape. But he came out late. And I can't even imagine the sound of the garden. I mean, when it's packed... We're talking about three to all times. So this is one of your famous sports analogies that gets us back to team. Yeah. See what I have to deal with? This is what I have to deal with. Sports is in every... You don't know that yet, sister. I know that's what you think, Spike. Sports is in everything. My hot mouth is Jackie Robinson. We go on and on. But then you got to know the game. It's like, nah, it took me five minutes to figure out, well, what happened to his leg? I want to say to listeners, please forgive me, because I have something called... I don't have this slux here. Ask something else. What is that? This slipper. It should be slipping. You're mad for her. You're just setting that up. That was it. That was a nice one. That was... It's also called broken knees too. To slip in. I'm generally good. I can keep us on course, you know? But the zero. I'm turning my best brain. I have some sleep last night. I mean, shoot. But let's talk about highest to lowest. Yes. Please. When I was in film school, in while you graduated film school, I was introduced to Japanese cinema. The giant of Japanese cinema. Our producer, Dan, is losing his mind that you even brought this up. He's a cinephile nerdy. He's a cinephile and a spike lead. And we were just talking about, well, you do know that this was a- A curacao. Curacao. And I'm like, no, I did not. So he's so happy. Please continue. I was in film school. In graduate film school, you introduced a lot of international cinema. And Rashomon really made an effect on me. In this film, there's a murder and a rape in characters. You speak on it. In fact, that's where the term comes Rashomon effect, where the same different people see the same thing. So that gate, that was a kernel that she's got to have it. Where Nola's three boyfriend and her address speak to the camera. And say what their story is, I'd love for the audience. What do you want to believe? And this film is not a remake. It's an interpretation of the great film by the great Japanese filmmaker, Kirikosawa, high and low. So we flipped this. So our title is called Highest to Lowest. But as a nod to Prince, we used the number two instead of- Ah, nice. I did know that when I was watching it. And I'm blessed to have worked with my brother Denzel Wash. Yeah, he gives a performance. We are blessed that you're working with your brother Denzel. Yeah. You know, as some of our listeners may have seen, my brother-in-law, your husband, joined us on the show a few weeks back and had a interesting opinion that catch up is just for kids. But here at IMO, our opinion is that catch up is for everyone. And honestly, it has to be Heinz. Mish, I would say that IMO is a pro catch up podcast. Without a doubt. We believe in catch up here at IMO and in life in general. Yeah. Yeah, so despite what my husband said, catch up exists in our household everywhere. Yeah. What are some of the ways you guys use catch up? Well, you know, there's the basic potato, french fry, catch up dip thing. I mean, it's always there. The girls, you know, before they can even start their meal, the question is always, where's the catch up? Yeah, especially with fries because it's a rare fry that you can get away with just salt and pepper. Yeah, and having a little bit of that tomato-wee rich flavor. Vine ripen. You know, and, you know, it gives it a little substance, you know, it's not dripping down your fry. And then barbecues. Yes, I was going to say grilling, you have to have catch up for your burger. And I'm not even offended if I'm grilling and people put catch up on their burger. You can dip it or you can have it on there. I'm not offended. I'm not offended. And I'm from Chicago. I'm not offended if you put it on your hot dog. That's a question. Are you a pour or are you a dipper? Because people have a certain opinion about catch up. Some people want one application. Yeah. Other people want a bite, a dip, a dip, a bite. It just, my preference, it depends on what I'm eating. So if I'm eating a hamburger, I like to dip my hamburger into the catch up. Got it. I love because I want to bite a catch up with my hamburger. But if I have a brat or a Polish or I want to have it along the length of the brat. I can picture that. Oh, and that just reminds me, even though my kids aren't young as a mother of little kids, catch up was an important source of vegetable intake, especially when it came to broccoli. I mean, you know, look, you want your kids to get their vegetables in. And let me tell you, catch up is an excellent vegetable delivery system. Absolutely. We got a lot of broccoli down just with a little Heinz ketchup dip. Made the girls happy. I was happy. Genius. Kids were happy. Veggies were eaten. Life goes on. And at the end of the day, it has to be Heinz. And it's kind of sad because this might be the last film that we're doing. He's talked about retiring. Every time I read the article, he's retiring. He's doing another movie. So who knows? So I said today, I'm going to say, I'm going to stop saying that this is my last film. Okay. I thought I was going to stop saying that. Yeah, you don't know. Because you can say that, it's going to make that happen. Yeah, that's right. And Denzel, you know, he's all that was spiked. You know, I said it was, but you think it's so, so. Yeah, yeah. Denzel, I'm going to stop saying that. Okay. It's order. Mobile blues. Yeah. Malcolm X. He got game. Inside man. And here's the crazy thing. Both Denzel and I did not know. 18 years had gone past between inside man and high school. We both just time just went. Yeah. I wouldn't have thought that either that year. We were shocked. We were like 18 years. But because that, you know, inside man's feels fresh. You know, I mean, it, you know, it's, it's a stand out. I mean, it's, it's on the top of everyone's favorite spike movies. So it feels like it just happened, you know, and you, and you haven't aged. Not a, not a second. My, my right. Except for your slipology or whatever it is. We operate. But it has been all jokes aside. It's been a gift to work with Denzel. And added plus he has season tickets for the Lakers. So silly. So when it's time to come out, I look over the next day. I got this way. And then the way it is now is a lot of times was that where, what they're doing now is like the stop team is doing travel. The Knicks are playing the clip is like. Back to back. Yeah. So I know the owner. Well, it sounds like you made the movie schedule around the basketball schedule spike. And I would be surprised. Let me tell you this. When we were rolling with. When we've had a game. And the day, the night was shooting. People know where to go home at five o'clock. It's like early call. They call their wives and I'll be home with them. They know if we're shooting out of the game. You are crazy. You are crazy. What's it? What's it like to direct Denzel? What makes that partnership special to you? He knows what he's doing. He knows what he wants. He doesn't need 20 takes. Yeah. Wow. But also. He listens to notes. Look, he's not too big for that. When you're great. I'm not gonna tell Denzel. Well, can you move a little? I mean, look, if there's a note, I tell him. Yeah. But I'm not in a zero like. Let's do his thing. Yeah. Now actors aren't that level. And I do what I want to do. Yeah. That's a different story. And Denzel. People understand. His improvisation is so great. You think that stuff is written. And it's on. It's like right there. Yeah. And it's a perfect thing you needed. But it's not in the script. And when he gets an actor on his level and they start going back on improv. It's just. It was ASAP Rocky. Also, you know. ASAP. I keep telling people. Yeah. His performance. He showed. Yeah. ASAP and Denzel. That's like a headway fight. It's on the headway light weight. Toad to toe. Yeah. And he is in it. Yeah. Had ASAP. He's been in several films. He's been in several films. So this is not his first film. Okay. He. He was fun to work with. He has a thing. Denzel is such a powerful actor. I've seen actors like. Will. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot to work against. Besides. You've seen his work. You've seen what he is. Then you're like. I'm going to see when Denzel was like. Yeah. It's like being at practice with Jordan. Come on now. You know what I'm saying? Oh Lord. Here we go. More basketball. That's a nice force to a rail. Like oh my God. Yeah. It's been even broken. Yeah. What's one of the Yankees now? Yeah. They say. What else is now? Hey we've got 27 rings. So don't. Okay. Back to ASAP. Oh my God. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. You too. He was like. Something else. He was like you know like I got Tiscals too. Yeah. Oh that scene with him in the. Corn Studio. In the recording studio. I know. I don't want to give it away for the listeners. And you know what's great about that? Denzel wants. Because if he's in the scene. And he's killing the other person like. Yeah. That's killing the scene. Yeah. Three walks. Yeah. And then here's the thing. Even before I was asked through this film, people have always said, A$AP looks like Denzel's son. Have you ever? You don't? I've heard that. I've heard that. I've heard that. Have you seen it? Now I have to look for it, because I didn't notice it when we were watching the film. No. People say that to me for years. So that adds another layer. Thank you for that word. Yeah. Another layer. Because then on a subconscious level, this will follow something. It's the fall of sun. So yeah, and a layer upon layer, that just makes that list a whole film out. Now in addition to Denzel, I mean, you have given so many black actors, and so many actors, period, because of that team. Can't leave out Rosie. Can't leave out Rose. But we're equal. We're equal for sure. Can't leave out Rosie. It's just been amazing how you've been so conscious about, especially with Ozzie Davis, Ruby Dee. I mean, you kept a lot of really amazing actors in the zeitgeist, so that's generation. You just made me think of something. What's that? Harry Belafonte. My father played with Harry Belafonte. And every time he would see me spike, do you have to use Ozzie every cent cake? You can't use Ozzie just let me get one. And Ozzie's, excuse me, and Mr. Belafonte. You had to call him Mr. Belafonte. His last film was Black Lansmer. His health was not good. So I didn't know until that morning when we'd come to the set. So I had a backup. We had stashed. Wow, really? I'm not too Oz, but the hotel. I told the cast, this day before I said, you come to work, dress your Sunday best. And have you ever been on a film set? Like this set? Like Bummy, you had a couple of sluts. Much like here. I'm just kidding. Anyway. When the car rolls up, everybody's coming. Everybody was out there. And when he got out of the car, people lost their minds. Wow, I can only imagine. Wow. Wow. That was a great guess. Wow. For years, he was saying, Spike, you had that. And you've got it. Get Ozzy, get a rest for it. Just give me a minute. Get in there. And you did it. And we got him in for his last film. That's great. You did it. But your latest film, while there may not be a direct message, that last scene with Denzel and ASAP, there is a statement about the industry, the music industry, and sort of, I don't want to give away a twist, but there's a cynicism about the way young people today use social media, how that affects the creative process. Can you speak a little bit about how you feel about where things are, how filmmaking has changed, how the creative process is being impacted? The thing that scares me, AI with arts. No, all right, AI for this and that. But when it comes to being writing scripts, TV shows, I'm not with that. Because I don't think, in my opinion, you cannot duplicate human beings. My opinion, a machine writing. I'm thinking about AI music. Plays. Books. It's, call me old fashioned. Yeah, no, I don't. I know, well, just for the audience. Yeah, OK, sorry, my bad. I just think that there are some things that are sacred as human beings that the arts have a problem with that. How do you see it in the classroom? Because you're still, you're teaching. Yeah, but I don't have the right papers for you. OK. But scripts? Yeah, I read the scripts. I could tell they're not. You can tell. Yeah, I can tell. But come on, I don't have exams. But people, if the students were losing out, because they're not, and we know, look, at this table, we all know, we learn this many, many times. Because we didn't get to where we are if it wasn't for that. You had to put the work in. That's right. W-E-R-K. See, just when I think. I love the solo. Just when I think, you know? You got to put the work in. Yeah, you're right. You think you're getting over, but you're cheating yourself. That's right. And as parents, we've, we've, we've, we've, told our children. No, you can't. There's another one. You can't fake the funk. Yeah, well, that one, yeah. Mm-hmm. So Spike, hold on. Oh, I'm sorry. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yes, my sister. Oh, yeah. I like that. All right. Why you both guarding? Yeah. Why you filing? Ooh, ooh. Mm-mm. It might as well be the same. It might as well be the same here as it is everywhere. Go ahead, your highness. Oh, now I forgot what I was going to ask. That's what she's got. All right, what are you going to ask? I was just going to ask, what does it take now to get thoughtful, original, brave films made in Hollywood? Oh, okay. That was close to what I was going to ask. Oh, well, what do you know? All right, all right. So worked out. Worked out for me anyway. You're right. It's getting harder and harder. Yeah, yeah. Because the powers that be, they're just looking at the bottom line. Mm-hmm. I know this personally. I know a few people in those positions, the gatekeepers, that are willing to produce different type of material, more challenging type of material and not do what they think is a guaranteed thing, but there's initiatives. There's nothing to guarantee. And it's just tougher. I mean, I have some friends that in the music industry, these labels are dropping people, foreign people, left and right. So I think there's something that's not just the industry of film, but across the board. People are just... Yeah, everybody wants the same type. They want a category. They want to guarantee. But the audience is there, but they're not... The audience, that's the frustrating thing. I mean, it's like, you have conversations with some of the decision makers and they swear that the audiences don't exist, that the numbers bear it out, but that can't be possible. One could argue that some of the drop in box office is because there's just not enough variety. It's the same thing. Yeah, it's the same thing. I mean, if I don't like action, if I don't like Marvel, if that just doesn't happen to be my thing, what am I going to the movie for? And then if you get out of the habit of going to the movie because you just assume there's nothing there for you. Or you're going to scream. Yeah, that's the pattern. But I want to see a little bit of everything. I want to see love stories. I want to see all kinds of faces. I want to see women leads. I want to see stories about coming of age, all of that. And that's why the president of the pictures, when I did do the right thing, Tom Pollack, when we were talking about, oh, Hollywood doesn't take the chance they used to, Tom Pollack is a hero to me. He was everybody in Hollywood total not to make do the right thing. That black folks would come out of theater riding. There was tremendous, tremendous, tremendous pressure on him. He just did a film called Last Hemptation of Christ that Martin Square's facing directed. He had death threats after that film. He had to have armed guards with him and his family. And on top of that comes do the right thing. It was courageous for him to go ahead and make do the right thing at the Last Hemptation of Christ where him and his family was a potential danger. And we had the world premiere. The world premiere do the right thing was in Cannes. And right then, this was called Riots, I mean, but he stood behind the film. And I don't think there are too many people who are ahead of studios today that would do that. So I'm going to love that. My brother Tom, because he, people within Universalist was boss, the industry, the press. They said this film would make black folks run amok. And he thought otherwise. But those very few, those people. He went far between. Yeah. Yeah. In the industry now like that. They exist. But the algorithm sometimes it plays too big of a role. Well speaking of helping folks and generational assistance. We have a thing here on IMO where we get a question from one of our listeners. And this happens to be from one of our listeners in DC. Okay, right. Tori from DC is that question for us. This episode of IMO is sponsored by Chase Home Lending, committed to supporting you all the way home with smart digital home buying tools and resources. Chase Home Lending is dedicated to helping individuals and families achieve their dream of home ownership. They offer expert guidance throughout the home buying journey, helping customers navigate the process with confidence. This brings me back to a time when we grew up living upstairs from my aunt in a two family home that she owned and we rented. And it was a wonderful time. But being a renter, we had to be extremely careful of what we did. For example, we had to be quiet at a certain time. We couldn't play on the front lawn. My sister couldn't have a dog. And we didn't realize the importance of being a homeowner until we got late in life. 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One click, no stress, boom. And the best part, I can shop from my couch with my now 15 year old and 13 year old. I grab their school supply list and I'm all set. Now instead of running around town stressed out, I get to actually spend the last days of summer with my kids. We're doing movie nights, bike rides, and even dare I say back to school fashion shows in the living room. Parents, do yourself a favor. Go to Amazon. Get your back to school checklist done in like five minutes while saving a few bucks. So remember with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them. Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Tori and I'm a 41 year old paralegal in DC. While I'm not able to have children, I've built a life focused on service, purpose, and growth. From 2019 to 2020, my husband and I fostered refugee children, which deeply shaped how I view my role in the world. I'm currently considering law school while also thinking about how to mentor and uplift others in the paralegal field. My questions are, how do you decide which path will allow you to have the greatest impact, especially when you're torn between multiple good ones? How do you cope with the feeling that you're not fully living up to your potential, even when you're doing meaningful work? Like you're not a work, that's a humdinger. That's a humdinger. You, we've got. That's deep. You know, it's a humdinger. It's a humdinger. We've talked about this before in other conversations, but I don't know when you talk to your kids, because our kids are all in their late 20s, early 30s-ish. Seems like a lot of young people in that age group are struggling in that way. They're wondering, you know, should they be doing more? Have they chosen the right path? I find myself having conversations with young people about having the patience to sit with where you are and find the meaning with what you're doing at the moment. You know, all impact isn't big. You know, all meaningful impact isn't big. You know, Tori is fostering refugee kids and, you know, it sounds like there's a lot of stuff going on in Tori's life right now where she's having a lot of impact. Being a good neighbor, you know, having impact with the people who are right in your midst, the people you have responsibility for, that is big impact, you know. And that to me is enough. What's bigger than that? What is bigger than that? What is bigger than that? It feels like she's trying to figure out how to build a legacy. And I just, you know, I like what you're saying about being patient, but I think she needs some direction. And if I were to give her some direction, I would say to her, try different things. The right idea will eventually come to you. But in the meantime, you're doing some wonderful things by fostering refugee kids. And maybe the how to is how does, maybe Tori is trying to figure out how does she explore different paths? You know, I mean, you know, a lot of kids don't have networks, a lot of young people. You know, you get into one profession and it's hard to figure out how to get to another or even explore. I know when I was, came out of law school, thought I wanted to be a lawyer, worked at a big firm, did all those things, only to find out after two years, my feeling was like, no, this ain't it. So how would I, how do I pivot? How did I figure out how to pivot? And it was something as simple as, you know, I had to think about who I might want to be. So there's some work that Tori has to do on her own. I mean, she's got to kind of dig deep and ask herself questions. Both of you, this question. I'm glad I was born when I was born to be a kid today. Yeah. All this is, it's just seems like there are too many choices. Not just choices, but we get a choice. You got 500 channels to go. Yeah. You know, it just, yeah, it's just, I mean, I'm just, no, it's March 21st, the first day of spring, 1957. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know, I'm saying Cori, you say it was simpler back then, but it was just like, yeah, yeah, too. It's like bananas. Yeah. I mean, good God. And Spike, I don't know if you find this with the students you teach, but I hear this in young athletes, I hear it in young artists too. Everybody wants to be impactful right away. And that's unreal. It's all for you, Walt. It's unrealistic. And it gets back to what you were saying when we were talking a little bit about filmmaking is you got to put in the W-E-R-K. Hold it right there. That was too good. That was too good. Leave me with the stuff, this messed up. No, no, no, no, you stay where you are. Stay where you are and tell the wrong way. But what are you telling your students when they come to you and they want to be Spike Lee right now rather than, you know. Well, they don't say they want to be me. You know, I'm feeling the worst, but what I do is that this is what we want to do. You got to be serious about it. And you may read that stuff, but there's no things over night's success because a lot of people, they say that, but they want to leave out that, you know, they were giving blood to eat, donate blood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. They leave that out. They'll tell you the backstory, the darn side. The backstory. And this is even more important. I tell my students, first day of class, I hope you were here because this is what you want to do the rest of your life because you want to, because this, this makes you happy. Because if you have a job, occupation that you love, that's a home run. That's a three pointer. Yeah. That's an 80 yard field. Oh, good Lord. That's our America. Yeah. Because when you have occupation that you love, you don't need to hit the alarm four times to get up. You do that. You hit a job you hate. When I'm shooting a film, I don't have an alarm. I know I got to be on the set at 6 a.m. I know when I need to put my skinny black ass to bed so I get sleep so I can wake up and do the job I love. We can tell Spike loves what he does. Minity walks in. Yeah, but you ain't seen me in the niggame though. Actually, I have. I have. It's rough. You know what? Yeah. Will you be my guest this season? I will. Don't waste that on her. Oh, don't even. Take me. No. Get back a little bit. I would be on your guest at the garden. Happy back, please. I would love it. Thank you. Yeah. I would love to give a last plug for the film. What do you want to tell the people? The new joint. The new joint. The new joint is highest to lowest. Starring Denzel Washington, Jeffrey Wright. A-cast. ASAP Rocky. Yeah, it is. A-cast. When it appears. Stream on Apple September 5th. Apple TV Plus. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.