Seahawks Deserving. Patriots Fraudulent? And More Super Bowl LX Takeaways!

welcome to the ringer nfl show i'm your host shiel kapadia super bowl 60 in the books the seattle seahawks are super bowl champions we'll talk about it all was it a good game are they a worthy champ are the patriots frauds and then we go in a bunch of different directions as always so we got billy gill dionte lee joining me let's take a break we'll come back we'll talk super bowl All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. Shield Kapati here with my friends Deontay Lee and Billy Gill. The Seattle Seahawks are Super Bowl champions. 29-13. I think the weirdest thing for me, guys, is that kind of what everybody expected to happen or what it felt like everybody expected to happen is what actually happened. I'm not saying nobody picked the Patriots, but we were all in San Francisco and you're talking to a lot of people. And my friends were sending me, hey, everybody on the ringer picked the Seahawks. It's like, oh my, you know, I started thinking before the game, this is going to go poorly. But in the end, Deontay was just like the beat down from the Seahawks. Like many of their games have been dominant defensive performance, offense doing enough. That's just kind of how the game played out. I agree. And I think it comes back to a lot of conversations that we've had on the show all year, right? Is that the teams who have had the advantage in the trenches ultimately have been the ones that have moved along in this process. New England was an outlier to that. They had kind of been skating by in the playoffs with some poor offensive performances or offensive line really struggling and them having turnover issues. And they happened to run into the one team that was not going to give the ball right back to them. Right. And ultimately, I think that the story of this game, while I think that Seattle was able to move the ball pretty effectively, just not punching it in into the end zone i think ultimately what we're going to remember is a dominant defensive performance especially up front are you gonna remember anything from this game billy was this a good super bowl or was this like you know this is one of those for like five years from now someone will be like hey billy do you remember who won the super bowl after the 2025 season and you'll be like no i have no idea what happened in that game so we were talking before the week about whether or not like this was a super bowl that didn't have a lot of excitement and headed into it, right? And through three quarters, it kind of was like that Jack, who worked with us here, came up and he said, this Super Bowl's actually living up to the expectations we had for it, which wasn't a good thing at that point. And it'd be kind of exciting, right? There were a couple touchdowns in the fourth quarter, but I don't know. I mean, if you love defense, you could have loved this game, right? But was it boring? It was, yeah, it was a little boring. I mean, I'm a defensive guy and I think it was boring. I mean, the Seahawks defense was incredible. It doesn't mean that they weren't dominant. They weren't incredible. They were, but from an entertainment value. Yeah. This isn't one that we'll be talking about years from now. Mike Vrabel. But is this supposed to be the tough guy? Like why, why was it not more aggressive coming out of halftime down 12, nothing? They had a, it was like fourth and three, fourth and one, fourth and three. And they never went for it. They didn't do anything that signified like, Hey, it's going to be hard today. We need to have a wrinkle. Wasn't a trick play all game long. Right. I, I kept calling it to Deontay. I was wrong. I gave it about seven times. Like this is the possession. You know, they're going to do a double pass. They didn't do anything. Fourth and one. They punted. Yeah, they kind of early on. I understood it because he was like, all right, we're feeling each other out. You know, we're not going to make the big mistake earlier that gets us down. But then in the second half, it's like, dude, there's like seven minutes left in the third quarter. You're going to have to score at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Bray ball. Yeah. For all the game management love he got. And I don't know that there's anything he could have done for them to actually win the game. But if I'm a Patriots fan, I would have been like, it would have been nice to try some more stuff in this game. Right. That doesn't mean you have to go full Ben Johnson and like every fourth down we get in the first half, we're going to go for it. But it was pretty clear, I think, after the first quarter that it was going to take a different level of urgency if they wanted to change the flow of the game. All those fourth downs that Billy mentioned all around midfield are in plus territory where it would have been justifiable, even if you had failed to at least take the shot, especially once you're chasing 12. Right. Because now it's a two possession game. You're going to have to chase points one way or the other. But they kept playing as though the expectation was that they were going to outlast. The Darnold turnover's coming. They were hoping for that, it seemed like. And it's not a strategy, right? Hope is not a strategy, not in the Super Bowl. And it kind of just seemed like the Patriots just kept hoping that this game would play out the way the rest of the postseason have played out for them. That if we just sit back long enough, no matter what's going on with our offense, we'll force a turnover. We'll get the field position where we want it to. And truthfully, I mean, they did have Seattle backed up for a good chunk of the game, which is really where the game kind of started to lose its juice because they were always inside their own 25, their own 30 and couldn't get much going. but I think that them waiting and waiting and waiting for Sam Darnold to ultimately hand them a win proved to be a mistake. And I think that what we really got out of this is that what we had seen for the first few weeks of this playoff run was true that Sam had done a much better job. I think of avoiding turnovers. Now there were some risky throws, especially early in this one, but I think that after kind of those jitters in the first quarter war off, they really were able to handle business. And I think that Clint Kubiak did a good job of managing his quarterback throughout. I don't think they had a turnover in the playoffs. I was right. Yeah. That's kind of crazy. Yeah, you're right. It felt early on. It was like, oh, Sam's kind of feeling himself here. And the Patriots were just jumping every route. I'm like, oh, there's an interception coming. It never came in Sam Darnold now, Billy, just like a one of one career. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, the quarterbacks were drafted in his draft class and he beat all of them to not only get to a Super Bowl win. So it's insanity. Like this guy, you were saying it during the game. Has there been anyone that's had a bad career for that long? thing goes on and wins a Super Bowl. I don't think so. I can't think of one. I mean, normally, like he had like a five-year sample. You know, sometimes a guy gets one year or two years and then they get yanked and you're like, well, give him another chance later. He had like a five-year sample that just statistically was one of the worst you would find from a starting quarterback. And so I look at that and I go, well, I'm looking throughout history and there's not a guy who's turned it around after that to even be like competent for a stretch of their career, let alone win a super bowl it really is a a one-of-one career and i mean we've said it before he seems like a normal guy he seems like a nice guy he's being interviewed after the game and he's like hey 12 let's hear it for the defense you know dk was getting all emotional in the theater like look he's even now he's pointing to the defense here but i think he's right i think if you root for sam darnold you're like i love this guy 100 yeah i mean totally deferential the entire way through even after the nfc championship game where he was pretty clearly needed him the driving force to get them to the Super Bowl, he still was kind of giving credit to the coaching staff, to the defense, to the running game throughout this whole process. And I think that that's why most people have kind of rallied around the idea that like, hey man, good for Sam. Because it hasn't been trying to reshape what happened in New York or in Carolina or what the meltdown was at the end of last season in Minnesota. It seems like he's done a pretty good job of just owning where his shortcomings have been. I think that he was never a quarterback that was any different than who he had always been. And we just happen to see a longer arc than we typically see for quarterbacks who struggle the way that he did earlier in his career, get connected with the good coach. And now you get to see, I guess, the fruits of that labor. Only QB with no haters, Billy. What do you think? You don't think he has any haters? I mean, well, see, I was a Darnold hater, but I'm like, I was wrong. Good for him. I'm not. I'm no longer a hater. I'm handing in. I'm going to my group chat that might prove to be a counterfactual. Yeah, I think there's still some anti-Darnolds out there. What is their deal, though? They just don't like them. What's their argument? Yeah. He doesn't have to do anything. I mean, A, he doesn't really have to do much. You're playing with a great defense. You're playing with an offensive coordinator who is going to become a head coach. So you have a pretty good ecosystem around him. And people don't forget, man. People who were around at those times in New York, and I watched some of those games as well, he just looked lost. People change, tell them, Deontay. Well, the problem is that Samborda really hasn't changed. I think he has. See, I mean, he had, come on, he has improved. I'm not saying that. Improved, yes. Yes. Improved, yes. Changed, no. And I think that that's a belief of mine, and I think of other people who are more critical of him, which is that quarterbacks progress. They don't change, right? Like, if I were to tell you that Bryce Young, a half decade from now, would be in this exact same position where we have all these questions early in his career. If he's a long-term starter, he goes to another spot, and then he ends up winning a championship. But he's still playing the way that he's playing. He just happened to be in the right ecosystem. anybody who was anti Bryce Young now if they were still that way then I think you would understand especially if you were playing similarly because there still were moments you mentioned it in the first quarter I'm like hey man good for you that you got that completion good for you for taking that shot but I don't know if that's the way that you want to be playing in the Super Bowl exactly 100 percent 100 percent and I think that that's always just kind of been inherent to his game like I said I mean ecosystem matters so much and I think that this past decade we have learned a lot about exactly what kind of influence a healthy ecosystem can have for a quarterback. So this is what's going to happen, Billy, is that. I believe because of the last two Super Bowls this week, people are going to start saying, you got to rethink how you build your football team. Oh, 100%. If you don't have Mahomes, if you don't have Josh Allen, you can still win a Super Bowl, build that elite defense, and then you know what? You got to get a quarterback that's good enough. Not saying you certainly can't do it with anybody, but I don't think anyone right now looks at Jalen Hurts or Sam Darnold and is like, those are, you know, whatever, top five, top eight quarterbacks in the NFL. What will your reaction be? You know, you're flying back to Miami tomorrow. You're at the airport bar and you see somebody on TV yelling that. Are you going to be like, you're right? Are you going to be like, shut up? What do you think? Well, no, I started thinking when you were talking. Are you going to be asleep? Who's, oh, well. I don't sleep on flights. I'm not good at flights. I cannot relate. Red eye. Cannot relate at all. Really? I'm out. Every single flight? What's your secret? The flight from San Francisco to San Diego is only like an hour, 15 minutes. I'm out. okay really yeah 100 oh no i'm a ilc guy yeah same i'm an ilc guy nope no neck pillow you're just no recline ambient music none of that what do the kids call it raw dog in a flight yeah i'm able to sleep through that i'm able to sleep every night are you a good sleeper as it is absolutely wow what's your secret i don't think i have one man get very tired have children should be very tired at the end of the night that's been a working formula for me all right so who's the next quarterback that just gets plugged into the perfect ecosystem well when He said Bryce Young. I mean, that is a pretty good one. Well, we're Bryce guys. I could see five years from now us having that conversation about Bryce Young. Really? Yeah, I think so. Five years? Well, let's take it off of Bryce Young, right? Because there are certain things physically that will lead people to have questions about what it would even look like for him to be a championship-level quarterback. Let's go with somebody who might be similar, like a Kyler Murray, right? Could Kyler Murray land in an ecosystem where two, three years from now, we're looking at him in an NFC Championship game or a Super Bowl and saying, wow, this guy might actually do it. See, I feel like Young has more of the Darnold intangibles where like no one said to write in his contract the thing about you have to watch film. Like I feel like Darnold had that kind of thing. I think Young has that type of thing. I feel like Murray, now that he's probably going to get traded this offseason, maybe we'll see a second version. But it's kind of crazy to say. Murray is much more talented than Bryce Young. Yet if you told me like who do I think it's more likely to happen to, I feel like I would choose Bryce Young. Well, Kyler Murray also has like a jet stop on his journey for sure. right and he's not gonna do it in the in new york so he's gonna have to have that jet stop and then somewhere else yeah yeah yeah yeah i don't know i'm looking through i don't know who the next next uh guy would be trevor lawrence has already kind of shed he's already kind of on so that's different and you want a playoff game daniel jones might be the next best option for that coming off the achilles i feel like this was his chance at that i don't know if it's still gonna happen for maybe it will sorry colts fans you know i don't know but um yeah i'm looking at the other ones i don't see another obvious one what about a two a situation no come on he's serious billy people are willing to hear it on my young not on i feel like too like mcdaniel was his guy you know it's not gonna get better for him he already had the good situation that's the thing you know you got to come out of the bad situation to a good situation where i guess you could yeah yeah i guess daniel jones and bryce young might be the only two that would check those boxes are to to keep it on this Seahawks team now there this whole season we've been like this is such a weird season you know it's just like is there a great team how many great teams are there who's gonna win it I do think they are definitely a worthy champ though you know there was this weird thing where all the advanced stats DVOA is like this is the sixth best team in the last 50 years or something You like they feel good I don't know that they feel that good. But now you look at it, they're 17-3 over 20 games. They lost three games by a total of nine points. They did not lose a game by more than four points all season long. Like, it's just any way you look at it statistically, reasonably, resume, they do have a Super Bowl resume right do we put that to sleep that they they are a great team even though it's a weird season or are you like well not so fast i would say i would say they're a great team okay they're a great team i would be really hesitant to put them in any conversation really with the best teams we've seen over the last decade and a half let alone you start talking about the last 30 plus years right and it's not a knock on what they've accomplished we just happen to have seen who cares exactly you know like but we've just seen some incredible single seasons uh throughout you know over the last two decades or so so yeah no not in that conversation for me quite yet if they hold this group together and they're able to make a back-to-back run then we would have that conversation like is this the most unlikely you know um hot streak that you could have imagined in the nfl but all time no was there any hitsy team that could have actually challenged them Hmm. Good question. The best probably would have been a healthy Denver. I think a healthy Denver could have challenged them. Healthy Denver. Interesting. Not Josh Allen going. No, I don't think, I don't think that that, you don't think so. I don't know how that defense would have fared against the run game that we saw from Seattle come playoff time. See, I look at, I feel like it would be more like, like the Rams basically were the team that pushed them the farthest. And so if you have a great offense and can put up points against them, at least you're going to be in the game. So I, I kind of feel like Buffalo. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe, Maybe it's that Thursday night game against Houston that is just like sticking out too much in my head when you think about similar defense. I mean, and obviously Josh Allen was awesome in the wildcard round against Jacksonville. I think turnovers aside was actually had a very reminiscent game to the one that we talked about around that time last year between Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. You get those ugly early turnovers and then it ultimately ends up sinking your playoff chances. But I just don't think that that Buffalo team was complete enough to deal with what we saw from Seattle. knowing that the best offense this season los angeles took basically two a plus plus games from their quarterback and their run game to be able to hold you know be able to hold serve against them for one game and then take them to the end in the others i don't think there's anybody in the afc that could have reached that level to play with them they didn't make the playoffs but philip rivers colts played them tough they only lost by two what a weird game that was yeah you're right and that was his first game back this first game it was bubble screen central yeah that's a bubble screen and inside zone central in that game kept them in it yeah philip rivers you know what if he was one last ride that's right i think the bar who are the people who are just like we're not sleeping tonight because of the result here i we talked about this before jets fans i think jets fans are fine you gotta be fine yeah and billy after that i don't know if i forwarded the emails i got we got emails from jets fans who were like no we actually are rooting for sam they said they said if you go on reddit jets reddit the only thing that everybody agrees uh agrees about is that they were rooting for sam darnold in playoffs let's see it's a weird phenomenon just because he's like a nice guy and they're like our organization's dysfunctional good for him like either he never was like get me out of new york or anything i mean three stops after you're allowed to be happy right if you had gone to carolina and you're making a run to like the nfc championship game people might be a little bit more salty yeah and to the point of being a relative like a low profile guy in spite of how high he was drafted and how much attention he had garnered from getting the start in his career in new york i'm not surprised the jets fans rooting seems strong i think indifferent to the success will probably be a little bit more accurate i'm on jets reddit i'm on jets right now there's people wearing sam jarnold jerseys watching the game say let's go sam they were rooting for him tonight now do you think that's a good representation of fans right on reddit i think they just hate woody johnson if i'm gonna be yeah i think that's right good for them this might be like a new segment billy checks reddit yeah it's a dangerous game you know what i think like 20 years from now sean mcveigh is gonna be like that year 2025 yeah i feel like we had a great team and now it's two years in a row where he's looking at it going like one play goes differently. He could have been playing in the Super Bowl. I think that Rams team last year beats the Chiefs in the Super Bowl. And I think the Rams team beats this Patriots team in the Super Bowl. Like we could be talking about him as a three-time Super Bowl champ without adjusting that much. This isn't one that like, hey, five or six plays go differently. It's kind of like one play at the end of that Eagles game. And then the one play where Demarcus Lawrence peels off against the Seahawks. Like, I mean, McVay and Stafford, like no, look at what the Seahawks did to everybody else. And they were just like, we're cooking this defense. We're going to go up and down the field on them. And they have nothing to show for it. Hell, I mean, if you win that Thursday night game towards the end of the season, the NFC championship game is being hosted, you know, at SoFi Stadium. And that might have been that might have been what ultimately swung the game. So I think to your point, yeah, they're both probably going to be 20 years down the line, both wearing gold jackets, watching their daughters, you know, all around or whatever. They're going to be saying, man, can you imagine what this would have been like if we had just finish the deal against this thing we might be multiple multiple time champions has an owner ever gone out on top like this like we just won the championship and now we're selling is that what the celtics did or is that the year after yes i think that was right after this is a new thing win the title and sell your team well and you're also losing your oc so you're gonna be kind of a little bit down there and now it's time to get off so high you know i don't know is he gonna be that hard to replace clint cool he did agree he did an excellent job oh this is the take come on mike mcdonald is the guy who i mean that is that we we have watched it i think clint kubiak did a great job i don't think it's like the hardest guy to replace i would say in terms of like is he is he among he's certainly not among the top five offensive play callers to replace i think probably not top maybe not top 10 maybe top 10 i will say top 10 okay i will say top 10 and so the point of replacing offensive coordinators i'm sure we can pull up your philly special email and see a lot of people with a lot of thoughts about what the experience can be like when you have to replace championship winning offensive coordinator that's true okay after super bowl is it is it too soon to ask drake may fraud okay what happened great tease take a break we come back i do think again when you're in the airport tomorrow you look at the tvs oh that's oh it's gonna be all over the patriots frauds all along so let's take a break and come back maybe not an unreasonable question all right we're back on the ringer nfl show all right let's talk about wait real quick before the patriots mike mcdonald we just talked about and i feel like he already has the resume of one of the great defensive coaches like he just went to a he coached a great defense in baltimore engineered it and then he left became a head coach and within two years coached a great defense that won a super bowl like even if he retired now that's an incredible resume give him ideas this when he starts those games. Should he retire? No, I think I'm tired of coaching. I think he's more of a podcast guy, but not sports podcasts. No, he has no intention of retiring. He's just going to say that to get more content. If you listen to Mike McDonald talk, that is a sicko. It is a coaching sicko. If there's one thing he's not going to do, it's retire. I think you're going to have to pry this job. Maybe he's behind the scenes on podcasts. I think he's a listener. He wants to be a producer. You got to keep an eye on the live stream. We have room. We got room for you. Absolutely. wiki mac but um yeah this is i mean he has a chance now he's he's so young and he like just started that it's crazy to say but like he has a chance to build up a hall of fame resume as a defensive coach i mean you'd have to say the last one we had like this that came from a great putting together a great defense in one spot becoming a head coach and becoming a champion is tony dungy i guess probably would be the next closest and i mean that took a while yeah and you're tied to Peyton Manning at that point. So obviously, you know, the offense ends up, I think, carrying the brunt of the labor, especially when you look at some of the ways that the coach struggled at that time. Levy Smith didn't reach these heights, right? If they would have won with Chicago, that probably would have been the next best thing as a defensive-minded guy, getting control of an organization and being able to push them to a championship level. But no, I don't think that, I can't think of the last time we've had a guy from a defensive background reach these heights, especially coming out of the brady manning breeze etc etc era it definitely has been a while yeah all right so are the patriots frauds billy wait were you saying is drake may a fraud or are the patriots fraud we can do both if you want all right where do you want to start i mean the patriots yeah this is off schedule we were saying it all season and then here we go super bowl time they didn't they didn't look great i at any point in that time did you think the patriots were in the game no i unless there was like a flute like a special teams fun like i i felt like it needed that kind of play for them they actually did a decent like bend don't break well yeah yeah i mean we were talking well not seriously but we were having a conversation should we be considering the kicker for the mvp of this game because he's the only one who's put up points he set a record five fields in a super bowl never been done before 29 points honestly the punter was but the Dixon was more impressive. Do you see those punts? He was just feeling himself on that last one. Little quick, little lighter. Absolutely. I need a little bit more character for our punters when they're out there contributing to wins. I mean, he was jacked. He's, he's probably hated by other punters, right? Yeah. He listened to Chris long. I think that, I think that other punters probably don't like him because of what a great job he was doing, because now that becomes the norm in punting, right? As it should be. Right. We were talking about this one job. He had the great pun early and you were, Oh my God, it's incredible. It's like, this is your job shouldn't you be able to do this almost every time i don't understand i'm asking as as a one coach here i'm gonna abstain you're abstaining i'm abstaining on this one because i don't think i have any healthy feedback he has to coach a punter he can't exactly now if his now if his the kid he's coaching you know is a punter and be like yeah oh no the guy's gonna get all nervous and be like coach coach lee coach d what do they call coach d lee coach lee Coach Lee expects me to just take like Michael Dixon. What are you teaching your punters? I don't really do anything. Just kick it far? Exactly. Nah. You should be. Yeah, how about punting specialist, Billy? I don't know how to punt, but I mean, I feel like. You can figure it out. You know what? Thank you, Shane. Yeah, I believe in you. You can give us some remote work. Yeah. I will take that. I would definitely take that. All right. So are the Patriots frauds? Now, I think that there's certainly a case that they beat up on a soft schedule all season long. And then they got to face Jared Stidham in the AFC championship game. And then they got to the Super Bowl and they kind of looked like they didn't belong for most of the game. But I will also say it was a weird season and you can only play the teams in front of you. But I do think the people who think the Patriots are frauds do have some ammo here. Deontay, I wouldn't say they're frauds. I say I'd say that today they were the same team. they had been throughout the entire playoff run, which is the offense disappeared during the playoff run. It was an awful offense, terrible, all postseason. Yeah, they played four straight games against four good defenses and the defenses they played against kick their asses in all four of them. They just happened to force enough turnovers and play well enough with their defense to be able to get by. Like I said, this was the one team that was not going to hand them the game that had enough explosiveness and was consistent enough, not hampered by weather weather conditions or anything like that to be able to finish the deal. But New England look like the same team that they've been for the last month, which is a team that can win a game if you make mistakes. But if you hold on to the ball, if you're smart with the ball and your defense plays well, they were always going to be vulnerable and susceptible to a game like this. The fraud question probably isn't fair, and I'm the one that asked it. But here's the thing. Here's the thing about them and about Drake May, right? Did they blow their opportunity? I think one argument in their favor is Who's the power in the AFC next season? I mean, you don't necessarily see them and say They're going to come back to the Super Bowl next year, right? But who's the one that's going to be in their way? I think it not just one It the fact that there going to be a group that was not in there This year that they have to play They didn have to play Josh Allen They didn have to play Patrick Mahomes They didn't have to play Lamar Jackson. They didn't have to play Joe Burrow. I know the Chargers never win a playoff game, but I think they're going to be better next year. Josh Allen had to beat Trevor Lawrence, so you didn't have to see that Jacksonville team. Yeah, so like – It was as hot as any at the end of the year. You know, because there is always this thing when you have a young team or a young quarterback who gets there sooner. You always are like, oh, well, they'll be back. And as the broadcast pointed out, much to Billy Chagrin, my Dolphins fan, he's like, you know, they're like, or will it be like Dan Marino? He's like, why do they have to mention that every time? I was just looking or Collinsworth, whoever was just looking to take that shot for some reason. It's even personal almost, you know, but it is a good point. I feel like there's no guarantee they might they could never make might never make a Super Bowl. It's what happened to the Lions a couple of years ago. Right. And Dan Campbell was crying after the games. Like that might have been our window. We're like, come on, Dan, stop being ridiculous. And he was right. I mean, he was right. That was the closest they got. Now the case for them, Deontay, if you're a Patriots fan, you'll listen to this and be like, shut up. You're wrong. Is that maybe because we have to get to the heart of what happened to them in the playoffs. So the theories are Drake May's shoulder was hurt way more than they were letting on. And we're going to find out by the time you listen to this, they're going to be like, he had 17 surgeries on his shoulder an hour after the game. And we'll be staying in San Francisco for the next six months because he can't fly. He battled through it. Unbelievable performance. That's one. It could be that it was a combination of different things, weather in one game, opponent in this game, AFC championship. It was just that, hey, we don't want to give the game away, so we're going to play this certain style. It could be that. It could be that they beat up on an easy schedule, regular season, you face tougher teams, and now all of a sudden your offense isn't as good. Here's the one I actually think it might be, is that the deficiencies around Drake May caught up to them in a real way where it was like, before the season, I'm looking at the O-line and the wide receivers going like, you know, I'd like Drake May, but this is going to be still be very hard for them to succeed with this. And he was able to overcome that for a while because of those other factors, but eventually it catches up to you. So I feel like they have an off season where we could look at this team in week one of next season and be like, wow, Drake May is in a way better spot now than he was even in the Superbowl. I think that's true. I think that when you look at, especially up front, they had two rookies playing side by side in the super bowl in jared wilson and will campbell and i mean those two got roundly beat throughout the playoffs and were clearly being targeted throughout uh today's action in the super bowl i think you would you can't assume that traject that the trajectory is always just going to be upward right like that's not how this works in the sport or in any sport especially for losers of the super bowl the next year exactly you can only get there's only one condition that would be better than where you were just at right but i think you would say trevion henderson will campbell jared wilson a second year quarterback maybe you can address some other things with the receiver aj brown possibly possibly i feel like that could ease i feel like that could happen sooner rather than it could be aj brown it might not have to be aj brown what if it's alec pierce plus another receiver instead of the uh whatever currency is going to take for you to go acquire a player like aj brown um or rashid shaheed or rashid I thought you were going to say, how about both? Why not? Why not? A real quarterback on a rookie contract, right? Did it look like the moment was too big for him today? Rasheed Shahid? No. Yeah, Drake May. He seemed nervous. I mean, he seemed to be rushing things, but it could also be he didn't want to keep getting destroyed. I think he was just getting crushed. Yeah. I honestly just think he was getting crushed. Yeah. It wasn't like even the place where he wasn't getting crushed. He wasn't good. But as we've seen with quarterbacks, when you get hit, it has like a cumulative effect where all of a sudden he's rushing throws. He's off target. he really has looked like a different guy the last month and even during the season he had like the best numbers in the nfl when he was pressured so again it was like it wasn't it wasn't that he wasn't getting pressured it was like when he is getting pressured he's superman and then if you look at the playoffs he's turned into like the worst quarterback in the nfl when pressure so this isn't super bowl related but it's probably good that he didn't win the the mvp right because it would have been bad if the mvp he comes out he has that stinker of a game like oh that would it rough now yeah can we talk about the fact that justin herbert got an mvp vote and that's what cost him the mvp i can't do that's crazy i can't do this i can't do this sam monson we are pff buddies i always got your back okay yeah if nobody else got you i got you well listen he at least said who he voted for yeah you know he gave the reasoning i don't see the reasoning for justin herbert this is to me his hipster culture has gone too far in the nfl only because i understand Justin Herbert had bad circumstances but the problem I'm a Patriots fan I'm like Drake may have bad circumstances too and he was like the best quarterback in the league statistically and Justin Herbert was what like 21st so to me it's like if he had a great like I would I think Dak Prescott would be more deserving than okay so now that's a very good job for me no but it's like at least I need somebody whose numbers are at a certain spot where it's like if you've replaced him with somebody else like if he was like the 10th best quarterback then I could be like alright he was 10th in EPA for play and if you put someone else in there it would have been 25th but when you're 21st there's like not that you know there's not that much further down you can go but people are free to vote for 100 yeah 100 i think that all go overboard you know we're not telling you to target everything has been overblown in my opinion um that rogue vote saved us embarrassment in the super bowl right yeah you could have the mvp and then look at this that actually would have looked but yeah because if drake may would have won it and then we just saw staffer face the seahawks and then we just saw drake may face the seahawks yeah that probably wouldn't have been great i mean so sam monson here win it one of the winners of the super four saw this 100 months ago i mean to to your original question about like is this was this too soon will they be back were they frauds for not being able to come through in this moment as we're talking the thing i just keep thinking about is drake may's hometown team the carolina panthers who were here who were in that stadium a decade ago, you know, and came up short and everybody thought, Hey, Cam Newton in his prime, just won an MVP. Luke Keekly already looked like a hall of fame level player. They had all this defensive talent. They were on the upswing at that point in time as a franchise. And they didn't come back. And a lot of that is because the NFC at that time had so many great quarterbacks. You're still talking about Drew Brees and Aaron Rogers, right? You had Carson Palmer who had played really well in Arizona at that time. It's entirely possible that yes, we see the Patriots regularly in the playoffs for the next half decade and it just doesn't matter because they end up on the road playing baltimore right or playing buffalo or playing kansas city or cincinnati right it can swing just that quickly well i mean it's it's early in his career right but that's kind of where joe burrow is at too absolutely right he made the super bowl right away hasn't gotten close since i mean he still has plenty of career left but yeah he hasn't gotten close to being back to the super it's hard it's hard to get yeah it turns out it's hard to make a lot of stuff has to go your way You know, you have to like get the schedule. You have to pile up the wind. You have to be healthy. Stay healthy is the biggest one. I mean, these quarterbacks, it's like you look at some of them and it's like, unless you're like Josh Allen, right? Injuries are a part of almost every season. It's just a matter of how bad is it? Can you play through it? Did you get injured in September or did you suffer that devastating injury in December? Now you look like a different guy, uh, in the playoffs. So, uh, I like Drake. I just, I like Drake May a lot. I'm on the record. I like Drake. This is a poor reflection on Drake, but yeah, put that on the record. but yeah there are no guarantees i mean this was bad i was so among 33 quarterbacks who played at least three playoff games in a postseason the last 10 years he ranks 47th out of 52 starters in epa per pass like it's it's kind of one of the worst in terms of quarterbacks whose teams won yes it's almost it's like one of the worst it's almost impossible to play this bad yes yes thank you much better see this is why you need help from your friends because i i don't know what i was saying i couldn't explain it and then dionte just with the one-liner there hey man co-pilot um a lot of weird broadcast moments there was uh there was collinsworth where for whatever reason they were talking about the onside kick and he said i'll never forget where i was i was at the concession stand it's like wait what and then in one of the drake may so in drake may's interception in the middle of the field they went to chris collinsworth for analysis and he said and i quote I got nothing for you here Just because of how bad the pass was Like the broadcasting was awesome today They are great Honestly, just a very fun listen It was very much like this is our last game this year Yeah They had that officiating thing where you kind of put it out Right before they threw it over to their Official studio And it was like yeah that was a wrong call You know what they did a great job because they I've ripped the officiating Experts all the time on here because some of them, not to mention names, where's my, you know, I'm talking, I'm talking about, I think it's my camera. I don't know if I did that right or not, but some of them are like, you know, it's just like, this is my chance to shine. And they talk for eight minutes and you have no idea. So to Rico, what he did was, it was the catch at Cooper cut on the first possession. And he just goes, Terry says that would have been a catch. Thank you. We just solved the officiating expert thing. We actually don't need to hear from them. We just need them to tell the broadcast was it the right call or the wrong call so they did a nice job there but the concession thing had me rolling that one we need to spend another minute because they're talking about thomas moorstead onside kick saints colts iconic literally one of the greatest super uh started out the second half with that and chris collins were you know they're like oh yeah you're met everyone remembers where they were for that and chris collins were just because I was at the concession stand And And Dorico Just moved on to the next thing I don't understand Why was he at the concession stand What is he supposed to do with that That was very Al Michaels Listen I'm not here to tell NBC Content, social media what to do But I would like to learn more about So he wasn't calling the game I presume He couldn't have been because that was a CBS Okay, so he's there as a fan, presumably. Or media. I guess he could have been media. Long halftime lines, I guess. No, but I mean, halftime is so extended. Why was there a musical act? Yeah, why was he in a concession stand with, like, the commoners? Did he mean the media press box thing? I don't know. I'm very confused. Imagine just going to a game and Chris Collinsworth is getting the hot dog. You know, he's a tall dude. He's a big dude. Just seeing gangly Chris Collinsworth. I got to tell you. Trying to grab a hot dog. I'm sucking. I want to grab a can of Miller Lite and a hot dog. I uncovered a new football strategy today that I floated by you very briefly. And you said, tell me no more. Let's talk about this later. I actually forget what it was. So I discovered kind of like a glitch in football and in the NFL. I remember that can be kind of exploited by a smart coach down the road. So we saw or we didn't see because they intentionally didn't show us this situation. there was a streaker on the field an alleged streaker they were you know just no sure but a streak was on the field and it delayed the game a good like three four minutes why can football teams not employ people to go and streak on the field on their behalf should they be out of time out you can't like have it be known this is the team's official streaker right but like you have like a guy like a big dom or someone and he goes out there you know for the eagles and he tells some of his friends hey you know what we're gonna post bail i know some of the cops in the city this will get expunged not a big deal like it's not really gonna affect you long term but why don't you have like two or three people in the stands in a game like the super bowl so if you run out you're down by five under two minutes left you're out of timeouts you can't stop the clock right Yeah. You're driving. You can't stop the clock. Boom. Someone runs on the field. They have to stop the game. And they're not going to know that this person is attached to you. Why? Why has no one done this? Honestly, you've had many great ideas, but this is the best. I'm telling you, this is peak. Because especially, you know, I was thinking about it because this is the Super Bowl. This was actually the hardest situation because you're at a neutral site. Yeah. There's so much security. If you can pull it out, if a streaker can get on the field here. That's a hell of an achievement. That's why you have two or three, though, because then you can kind of attack from different fronts. You know what? This brings up a great follow question How far down on your friends list do you have to go to find a handful of people How many no are you getting before you collect your three streakers Well, because as he was describing it, let's say it's Lincoln Financial Field. Let's say it is Big Dom. You have to identify the people ahead of time, right? All right, there's three people. Get them good seats here. Put them in the family and friends section. Go up to the event staff person. Hey, just so you know, it's those three people. They have the gate a little ajar. you look at big time it's like a base it's like a third base code like when he goes like this yeah there has to be a sign take you there has to be and you're on and then they're on the field and forget bail like they're just this is all handled under the table i mean you're you're at home you can do whatever you want well no you have to it no i think you have to carry here's the thing there has to be like a degree of separation right because this like if this were to ever happen and this person is found out to be like paid and like arranged by the team like this would probably blow the connor stallions thing out of the water i mean paul la tory would have a field day yeah but like the greatest story i feel like you need you could get this there will be people willing to do this here's the deal this has to be a save it for the right moment thing yeah you can't do this three times no this is like home playoff game a lot on the line i think you do this for the super bowl i think and because here's the thing if it gets if you're the head coach you have to be a hundred percent separated from this situation because this would be horrible ramifications for you if it's found out that you orchestrated this right but you need to have someone there and you can you can only really probably pull it out once well i guess if you pull it off the first time this is a problem with like a heist right like heist movies it's always one more job it's always you once you pull it off you get a little greedy and you always go one too far listen there are people dying to work for nfl franchises yeah there's like a quality control coach there's an intern they're a low level yeah the coach doesn't even have to know about this honestly except you know you have one conversation at one time and they say you don't need to know anything about it but we got you don't worry about it and then you have someone else handle it i think it's a it's a great idea i would like to see if anybody the one thing i will say is to learn from the streaker in today's game because he did an excellent job of giving his body yeah i thought oh i didn't see it you've seen footage yeah must have had where was the footage you just said they didn't show on the broadcast you guys are searching this somewhere yeah yeah to me so yeah this kid whoever this guy is he must have had a history as a quarterback because we want to say like textbook slide as kyle williams is coming in and it felt like kyle williams was going out yes yeah it almost felt like the slide was so good it like triggered an automatic response and kyle williams because he immediately backed off like hey man he gave his body up if i if i make contact with this guy's 15 yards it's an automatic first down you know even the security But he seemed like they kind of played it a little easy on him. He got lucky. After he gave his body up. He didn't have the aggressive security guards who wanted to come in and just take a free swing. So he's feeling good tomorrow when he wakes up. Yeah. He might be feeling good. But not as bad as the other ones we've seen. Oh, 100%. Okay. You know, Tirico, I always laugh when the announcers feel like they have to get to a certain outrage level. Yes. When that happens. Tirico actually didn't do that. Another feather in his cap. Yeah, just called him a rocket scientist. Yeah. He was mailing it. His head was already in Milan. Yeah. No, he's like, I'm headed to the Olympics. I don't care. I got to call let's see Vaughn's entry later. Crazy. All right. One more break. Come back. Get to some leftovers here and wrap up our coverage of Super Bowl 60. All right. We are back here on the ring around NFL show. We covered Seahawks. You had the you had a case for another MVP over Kenneth Walker, Deontay that I thought was interesting. I did. I had Devin Witherspoon. I think ultimately, statistically, when his sack was ruled as an interception by Yishina Nwosu that actually you gotta have you could just kind of have to have the counting numbers as a defensive guy right that's kind of how Malcolm Smith was able to get it getting the fumble recovery gets the interception that he takes back to the house um against the Broncos and the Seahawks played them in 2013 in New York but I thought that at least defensively he was the most valuable player on the field like I think I tweeted out that it was a Rondé Barber-esque performance right like I think about all the times that he was used as a blitzer he had two TFLs in this game We mentioned the sacks. He ended up getting a pass breakup as well. And it's very similar, I think, to when you and I were in the press box last year in New Orleans watching Cooper DeGene. I was watching him on a snap by snap basis. And I'm like, you cannot convince me that this isn't the best football player on the field right now. That's kind of how Devin Witherspoon looked, even though he didn't win MVP. Ultimately, I think that he had about as big of an impact as any singular player did in this game. It was a great argument when DeAndre was making it in real time. And speaking of Tirico, he was like, oh, if Kenneth Walker, if they would have let that run go without the holding, he's like, that could have been an MVP decider. It's like deciding over who? He didn't mention it. He was probably thinking like Deontay was thinking. Jason Myers. Listen, I was. Jason Myers. I can't. No one won. Yeah, no one won. So you could go online and vote. I don't know who officially decided. I didn't know that until you told me. Yeah, they said on the screen. But does it matter? I don't know if that matters. That's what I was wondering, too. I don't know if that matters. Who officially votes for the MVP of the Super Bowl? I think media, right? I think there's a select panel. Is it like the thing where it's like, oh, you get one vote out of four votes or whatever? Probably not. But you could go online at NFL.com slash MVP or whatever. No free ads? Come on. That wasn't – whatever. It doesn't matter. Jason Myers wasn't even an option. And at the time, he was the only one that had scored any points. Rightfully so. No specialist gets to win Super Bowl MVP. What if you would have just given it to Seahawks special teams? Like split between the punter and the kicker. That's cowardly They were carrying the Seahawks What do you mean? The Seahawks special teams is the MVP The Grammys just passed by Imagine if they had given a co-album of the year No, that's cowardly I feel like it's happened It's probably it's happened and it was cowardly every time that it has I did love those dicks and punts though That's what I'm saying How did he do that? He put on a clinic Kevin O'Connell, happiest man Is he happiest or most upset? because there's there's two sides of it happiest because he's like well are you saying i engineered this ouster of our gm now look if i would have had sam darnold we would have been playing in the super bowl or is he actually upset because he's like if we would have had sam darn we could win the super bowl you got to be upset you have to be upset it's not just that this guy wins the super bowl and his backup went eight and one to start the year or whatever whatever the case may have been and had the most efficient offense before he ended up tearing his Achilles. So I do think that you're kicking yourself, even if you're the GM who kind of helped with orchestrating this roster is no longer there. You have to be thinking either one of those two guys on this offense. And that might have been us. I wonder if teams will do crazy stuff this offseason being like, we're going to build a great defense and we're going to go get this quarterback and we're going to win next year. Like we were saying, that's going to be a like a talking point this week. But I actually wonder if NFL teams are going to do that. Let's say you're Miami or you're Arizona. You have ties to Green Bay. Malik Willis' deal is coming up. He'll be a free agent. What if you're Michael Floor or you're Jeff Halfley and you say, you go get me Malik Willis and give me two years to go draft up a defense? You need the coach, though, I think. You need the defensive coach. I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree. So it would have to kind of be a Jeff Halfley and then I guess you're still dealing with the AFC. The Vikings could talk themselves into it, for sure. I think so. You know, now they would have to get good enough quarterback play, but they could talk themselves into fielding. The Texans are probably like, man, I like, are we that far away? You know, we had we had a great defense. The answer's probably no. But you don't you have three turnovers instead of five in the division round. And they might have been hoisting the Lombardi. All right. So Texans are feeling pretty good. There's not good free agent quarterbacks. Broncos. There's Daniel Jones, but he's coming up with an injury. Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson Marcus Mariota, Zach Wilson Zach Wilson No No, but Kyler Murray is probably going to get traded That's probably the big domino to fall Kirk Cousins Is going to get released I'm more interested Who can build up the great defense Where maybe the quarterback Doesn't have to be perfect Minnesota Flacco's out there One last ride for Joe Flacco let go maybe let's see all right what a christian and dallas great game i'm just getting to my leftovers here he was awesome oh my gosh probably i mean outside of devon withers from my favorite defensive player to watch today yeah probably should have had two interceptions frankly but played played excellently throughout the game riley mills is it okay to admit that i work in football content and when he this guy named riley mills i think that's his name had a sack i was like i don't know who that is is that everybody's allowed i think everybody should be allowed like three to five per roster i mean yeah i was up we were talking uh we were sitting next to danny kelly and i looked over and i was like isn't that like the ninth defensive lineman in your in your rotation like why would any reasonable person be asked to know who this rookie defensive tackle is yeah i had no idea all right anything else you guys need to get off your chest how you feeling billy you look like you're d are you just googling stuff what are you no i'm going through the notes i was disappointed by the commercials this year super bowl commercials can i be honest I don't. I'm sorry. You tell me. Why were you disappointed? There was none. There's no like memorable, like great commercials. I wrote down like three or four commercials. There's a Coinbase commercial where it was just karaoke of Backstreet Boys. I want it that way. There were two Backstreet Boys commercials, I believe. There was a liquid IV commercial with singing toilets. Singing Take a Look at Me Now. Encouraging you to look at your pee to see if you were dehydrated to take liquid IV. okay and then benson boone and ben stiller were in an instacart commercial where benson boone was doing his flips that he does when he sings all the time and then ben stiller was trying to do that and he was falling i'm totally indifferent i just i just feel so washed and like i can't speak about any topics because these companies come up and i don't know what that is i don't know what they do i've heard about that one before but i don't know what it is his name is billy kill his name is dionte lee thanks to everybody for listening all season last football game are you sad no i'm with you no i'm like i'm good i had my fill it was a fun season but i can i'm fine with a little break i'm a completionist man once it's done i'm totally fine you guys are front off this door thing and it's like oh look at my abacus and all this time i can do the salary time to restructure some deals on over the couch i can't wait for erin chats his new book to come out fake trades nba playoffs yes sir march madness and golf majors spring training you care about the you don't care about the draft you don't care about the draft i am hosting a nfl i can't say i don't care about but i like to give me some space i i like to um you know i like to procrastinate in college i like to just cram at the end all right i don't need to hear your 400 different things let me just cram at the end i'll form some bad takes you don't have any shields big boards coming out no there will not really no v1 v2s none of that there will not be but on on the There will be Danny Kelly. We see you DK Todd McShay. Deontay. I'll be doing Deontay has good draft takes. I don't know if I have draft. I have draft takes. I don't know if I have good draft takes, but I have draft. So yes, we will have all those cover, but we appreciate everyone listening all season long. We'll move to kind of a different little setup here for the off season, which we'll get to you as soon as possible. We'll, we'll, we'll be back later this week. So again, thanks to Billy. Thanks to Deontay. Thank you to Christopher Sutton. Congratulations to Christopher Sutton Seahawks fan. for producing us today. Had to watch with us, but he got to celebrate. So it worked out well for him. Stefano Sanchez on video and additional production supervision by Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal. I'm Shil Kapadia. We will talk to you soon on the Ringer NFL Show. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpd.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana. Call 1-877-770-7867. Thank you.