#371 How to Use AI Without Losing Your Voice or Judgment

Welcome to Embracing Digital Transformation. Before we dive in, I wanted to personally thank you for listening. Many of the ideas we discuss on this show inspired my new book, AI Augmented Teams. If you're looking for practical ways to combine human expertise and AI to achieve better outcomes, I think you'll find it valuable. Learn more at paydar.ai slash books. That is P-A-I-D-A-R dot A-I slash books. Now let's get started with the show. Okay, I like that because you and I have had lengthy discussions about this. Darren will say, oh, AI is not taking people's jobs. It's creating. And I'm like, no, no, no. It is taking some people's jobs. It is. It is. So I think we finally agreed on that because it is happening. It is taking people's jobs. But it doesn't replace you. Doesn't replace you, but you have to find a new, you have to find where you fit someplace else, right? That's right. And that's what I try and bring out in the book. Becoming AI augmented is all about learning how to use AI to become a better part of yourself. Why this matters to you. AI is no longer a future topic. It is already changing how people draft, decide, and deliver work. The real issue for leaders is not whether the technology exists, but whether your teams can use it without losing quality, accountability, or confidence. If your organization treats AI as a shortcut, it will create shallow work and hidden risk. If it treats AI as a capability multiplier, it can free people for higher-value tasks. Let's explore what that looks like in practice. Welcome to Embracing Digital Transformation. This is Dr. Darren. On this episode, how to use AI without losing your voice or judgment with Paige Pulsifer. Hey, welcome back to hosting my show. Why, thank you. It's a delight to come onto your show and be the host for the guest host, right? Am I the only guest host that you have ever had? No, you're not. Oh, yes. You had Anna. You had Anna Scott. Oh, Anna Scott. And then you've also had, didn't you have like an AI interview you? No, no. I interviewed the AI. Oh, you interviewed the AI. Okay. That's right. That's right. So, but no, I mean, you're the, you're the only recurring host, co-host that's come on the show. But normally when you come on the show, it means something's going to happen. Hopefully something good. You know what? Maybe if, you know, maybe if I'm hospitalized or anything, you can take over the show. Well, I think if you're hospitalized, we're just probably not going to have the show. No, the show must continue on. Must continue on. All right. So why are you here today? What's the deal? Well, Darren, I'm here because you have written another book. So the last time I interviewed you, you had written a book. Well, let's bring that out. Let's bring it out. We got to bring it out. It's right behind you. Is it? Okay. You got it? There it is. All right. This is the last book, AI Augmented Teams. Yes. And that's when I interviewed you before. We talked about that book, why you wrote it, who it's for. We talked about all that. And now we have Becoming AI Augmented. Book number two. Book number two. You know, when I first wrote AI Augmented Teams, I meant it to be Becoming AI Augmented. um but you were the one that said darren this book is not about individuals it's about teams i did yes and and you completely changed my whole perception on on writing the first book um everything down to introducing sarah bogue in the first book and her journey as a manager of a a teen going through their digital transformation for AI. That was all your idea. Your idea was to have that constant story. Well, because I do love reading. I do love books, but my books are usually a thriller, psychological. So I was like, Darren, when's somebody going to get kidnapped? Or it didn't happen. So it wasn't as exciting. And so I said, But it could be story driven to make it a little more interesting and connect people to the book a little bit more rather than just being technical. Well, so and then with that, I said, OK, I can tell a little story at the beginning of each chapter. Yeah. And that's kind of what I focused on was an individual story for each chapter. And when you read through it, you go, no, that's not going to work. Yeah. I wanted a common story throughout all of them. the same characters carry the story through. I thought that would be more interesting because people are like, Oh, what's going to happen? You know, what's going to happen to Leo and, Oh, I'm trying to get our names now. Ava. Yeah. What's going to happen to the, you know, in the next chapter. So, yeah, I mean, not, it was brilliant. It was brilliant. So I shouldn't just have my name on these books. Your name should be on them too. Well, I expect more, um, debt, more lengthy dedications to me in the front of the book. these books. Well, all right. I gave you a dedication in the first book. You did, and I appreciated it. It was very nice. The second book, though, I dedicated to my parents. Which is lovely. It was absolutely lovely. Don't get me starting to cry about that. No crying today. No crying today. All right. So, the second... Wait, hold on. I'm sorry. I'm the host of the show. Why are you taking control? Because that's what I do. It's my show. That I'm hosting for. All right, go ahead. Okay. So Darren, first of all, we briefly touched on this, but let's talk about it in a more lengthy way. Why did you write this second book? Well, I wrote the second book because that's what I meant to write first. So I took the learnings from the first book and I wrote a book for people, for individuals, not managers of people, but for individual people. That's what I wanted to do first. I just went about it the wrong way. So that's why I wrote the book, because I want people to not be afraid of AI and not think that AI is replacing them. AI may replace people's jobs, but it can't replace you as an individual. Okay, I like that, because you and I have had lengthy discussions about this. Yes, we have. Darren will say, oh, AI is not taking people's jobs. It's creating. And I'm like, no, no, no. It is taking some people's jobs. It is. It is. So I think we finally agreed on that because it is happening. It is taking people's jobs. But it doesn't replace you. Doesn't replace you, but you have to find a new, you have to find where you fit someplace else, right? You have to. That's right. And that's what I try and bring out in the book. Becoming AI augmented is all about learning how to use AI to become a better part of yourself. And it really can apply to more than just AI. It can apply to any technology or anything. So the book is really almost like a self-help book in some respects. It's finding yourself in this crazy world that we live in, where AI seems to be taking over everything. Okay. But what would you say? I have a lot of friends, and I think just a lot of people in general, they are very scared of AI. They don't want to become AI augmented. They're scared. They want to ignore AI. They want to not have it in their lives because they are afraid of the implications of AI in our society, in our life. So what would you say about that? I would say people felt the same way with the invention of the car. Technology comes and we learn how to use it for good. And some people will use it for bad. People use cars for bad things like robbing banks, right? But it's just like when the car first came out, there were a lot of people that were scared of it, right? What industries are going to change is going to change a lot of jobs. And it did. But it also created a lot of jobs too. So AI is just another one of those revolutions that we seeing We saw the industrial revolution the invention of electricity or the capturing of electricity cars computers I was going to say the internet The internet It is so funny to go back and watch people like news you know broadcasters that were saying. Those are so funny. Those are so funny to go back and watch and they're going, you know, this internet thing, that's not going to work and that's not going to fly. And it's just going to be a, you know, overnight thing. And the internet is used for good and bad. Right. But can you imagine the world without the Internet? No. It would be very difficult. But we have to be very discerning and we have to be skeptical, right, of the Internet and AI. We have to be. We can't just go, OK, I'm accepting AI and everything is going to be great. Well, that's what I talk about in my book. That's why it's becoming AI augmented, not becoming or relying on AI or learning prompting techniques. This book really says, how can I use it effectively, ethically, and so that it brings out the best of me by by relegating some of the other things that maybe I find boring in my job. I can relegate that to to an A.I. instead. And then I can focus on things that are more in my strength in my wheelhouse that make that makes me unique. I you know I am becoming more AI augmented yes you are I am I mean I don't think I would write an email today without using AI to help me write an email and are you becoming dependent on it then um in a way yes but I mean could I still write my own email of course I could Do you know what I mean? But do you write more emails now than you used to? I feel like my emails are more, they have more clarity and more direction. Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like before I was always just trying to find those words and always trying to sound like I maybe knew what I was talking about. You're more polished. Yes, but because my AI knows me, knows my personality, it helps me write emails that still sound like me. And sometimes I'll say, well, that doesn't sound like me. Make that way more casual or more fun. And it does. And sometimes I still change the email. But I love it. So that's one of the reasons why I wrote the book, was to help people understand the follies of AI, the benefits of AI and all those things. And we told it in the storyline. I love the storyline in this book. It's a great storyline of two people and a couple other supporting characters. You mentioned Leo. Leo's a supporting character, the managing director of this company. But it really tells a great story between Ava and Michael. Yes. And you actually got to go through the story in depth. Yes. And we'll talk a little bit about that because you were building out the audio book part of it. So you were going through making sure that it was easy to listen to. Right. I guess that's the best way to put it. Well, that it made sense. You know what I mean? Are you saying my writing doesn't make sense? I mean, I didn't say it. You said it. But I'm not going to disagree. No, it just needed to, we needed to make sure it flowed, that it made sense, that it was having Michael speak when Michael is supposed to be speaking and Ava speak when Ava is supposed to be speaking. And you're bringing out their personalities a little bit more. Yes, yep. So the really cool thing about Ava and Michael is Ava is young, great at AI, and they both work for a civil engineering company. But Ava doesn't have the experience that Michael has. Ava's not a subject matter expert yet. She's getting there. Michael, on the other hand, 30 years experience, right? A white hair like myself, knows his stuff. AI is a little scary for him. And how these two approach problems is really fascinating. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I actually really enjoyed reading about them and how they took turns. You know, Michael was kind of... How great I am. Yes, being very assertive and Ava, you don't know what you're doing. And then all of a sudden it was Ava telling Michael he didn't know what he was doing. It was a fun story arc to see how it came and went. Yeah. Well, and it's not all rainbows and unicorns either. No. Ava gets demoted, almost fired, has to work her way back up. So I love how we can demonstrate some of the really cool things in the AI augmented operating system, which I developed in the first book. And then I'm using in the second book, in The Becoming, which is really turned into this core, I call it the corpus canon. And you liked that word the other day when I brought that up. You were like, you've never used that before. I was like, what is that? It's the foundation that my books are built on. Right. And from this perspective, it's an individual perspective taken from someone that is new in the workplace. I call her an AI faker. We've had a big discussion about AI fakers. And the underleveraged, which is Michael, who's been around a long time, a little bit afraid, a lot afraid of AI at the beginning, and doesn't know where he quite fits as Ava supplants him as the board starts going to Ava for things instead of him. There's a lot of conflict there, the internal conflict in both Ava and Michael. So it's actually a fun read. And then we do some teaching afterwards. So I kind of like the way that this turned out. I did too. Yeah. I like how you, it is like a story and And then it's you talking about the story and what they've learned and what they're doing wrong. But you mentioned AI Faker. For those that haven't heard about that before or didn't read your first book, I mean, come on, you need to. You need to go read the book. You need to go read the book. But explain to people what an AI Faker is. so an AI faker it's it's not a mean term but it is in some respects you don't want to be an AI faker but it happens when you're using AI to kind of fake your way through and it's okay even myself I would call myself an AI faker when it comes to writing books because I'm not an expert in writing books. I don't have a foundation in that, but I'm using AI to help overcome some of my lack of knowledge, right? I'm an AI faker still. And we have a dear friend that has published several books. She's a New York Times bestselling author. She's commented on my book a couple of times and say, oh yeah, you're an AI faker. I can tell. But I'm not an AI faker when it comes to organizational management, cloud computing, and things like that. I am AI augmented because I have subject matter expertise in that. So I want to become more AI augmented when it comes to writing books. And I'm getting there as I learn and I progress. So that's really the difference. That's what an AI faker is. Yeah. And most people are AI fakers and they don't even know that they're an AI faker. Absolutely. Yeah. I know I'm an AI faker. Yeah, I am too. I am for sure an AI faker, but I am aware of it and I want to become. I want to become more AI augmented. Yeah. Good sell on the book. Good sell. Thank you. What? You can give it on Amazon, right? Okay. Let's talk about your help. You did quite a bit of work on the second book. You helped me out quite a bit with the audio part of the book. Because we generated the audio. This is actually pretty cool. The first book, we started off by you reading the narrative, you reading the story. And we captured about 30, 40 minutes of you reading the story. Right. And we cloned your voice. So there's a page clone out there, a voice clone out there. And we cloned my voice as well Right And so you handle all of the narrative part of the book and I handle all the declarative the teaching part of the book Right And you said you would help me out with getting the audio track ready. So you went through the book. What did you find in doing this? Was it enjoyable? Was it? I mean, I don't mind doing stuff like that. It was frustrating for a bit, Because I would start going through it and then I would say, Darren, this is really messed up. Like it says it's Michael. It's not Michael. It says it's Ava. It's not Ava. And so then you would say, after me spending hours working on it, you would say, stop. Let me go back. Let me try and fix that. And I don't know what that entailed. When you say fix that, what it entails is me taking your feedback, feeding it back into the AI that was taking the book and putting voices to the individual people in the narrative. and also in the teaching part. And it had a hard time sometimes figuring out who was speaking. It did. And so we had to give more context to the AI so it could do a better job at parsing this out for us so we knew who the right voices were to use where. And it still took some iterations, us working with it. It did, yeah. No, it was very unreliable. It would be going along just great for a while. And then all of a sudden, it was completely unreliable and saying things that, you know, shouldn't have been saying and mixing people up. And so then when we have to stop, you'd have to go back. And so that's what it was teaching me. You were teaching me about AI. You can't just go to AI and go, do this for me, whatever it might be. Just do this. it needs so much more context than just one sentence of do this for me. It absolutely does. And the more context you give it, or the more succinct in your context that you give it, the better off it is. Now, in the end, it actually did a pretty good job. Yeah, it did. But you still had to edit parts of it. There were still some things that messed up on, but we were like, that's good enough where I can make the changes. It still saves me time. Right. And now when we do the work on the next book, which we're working on right now, another book, then it'll go much faster. So we're learning with the AI how to use it effectively. Yeah. It was frustrating, but you're right. It still ended up saving time, even though it was frustrating. It still saved time of putting it in there line by line. You still were able to get it to where we needed it, close enough to where we needed it to be with just a few changes. So I guess that's what I'm trying to get to is you have to be patient. Well, and patient, and this fits into the concept in the books, both of them, the integrity packet concept. Yes, explain what that is. You've mentioned that a few times before on your show and with your book. What is Integrity Packet? So an Integrity Packet is really simple. It helps you generate decisions or content, whatever, in a reliable and defensible way. Just like with you with the audio book, you needed to check it. You needed to put in your assumptions. You needed evidence that the AI could use. and then you had to take ownership and say, hey, I'm accountable for this going out. I want it to look good. And then what is the risk? And we put the risk up there too. Is it okay if it misses two or three of the voiceovers? Maybe it's okay. So we put kind of a risk value up there. That's what an integrity packet is, those elements. So you actually ran an integrity packet in doing this work, not necessarily knowing that you were doing it. You experience what that means, which is making sure you've drawn out your assumptions correctly, make sure that you're checking the work, provide evidence that you're checking the work, provide that feedback back into the AI so it gets better, and then taking that accountability and ownership of it. That's really what an integrity packet is. So see, I'm very much an AI faker because I was using the integrity packet without even knowing it. That's how much of a faker I am. You're such a faker. But now, as I'm learning, right, I'm becoming less of a faker the more I learn. Well, and that's the point that I want people to understand. I myself am a faker in a lot of things, but I'm an AI augmented in others. And it will change as I grow and progress. I can be really good at AI and be an incredible AI faker. In fact, there's an archetype in AI faker called the polisher. I am not a polisher. Paige knows that. I am not detail-oriented. Right. But maybe AI can help cover some of some of those follies that I have. But I'm constantly progressing. And that's the key behind this. We show you how you can progress using the concept of integrity packet. You can create these integrity packets as you generate things and they can be put back into the AI. So it knows how you make decisions together with it. So it's a very powerful tool. OK, I like it. Are you done writing books? No, not even close. Okay. So you are writing a series of AI augmented books for different teams, individuals, educators, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So what is the series? So you have done teams and individuals so far. Right. And I'm working on a book right now with a dear friend of mine, Jeremy Harris. He's a lawyer, a privacy and AI policy lawyer. Great at what he does. He and I are writing a book together called AI Augmented Organizations. Okay. And what's cool about the way that we do this is as Jeremy and I have been looking at organizations and how to become an AI augmented organization, we found that the common thing that we use, the AI augmented operating system, that AAOS, can be used across organizations, teams, and individuals. So I have that common corpus, common corpus canon that I just build out. And then the series of books is actually pretty cool because I just take on a different lens. I'm taking on the lens in the organization book of the C-suite, of the leaders of an organization. and how can they use the same technique to empower their organization to become more AM. That's the idea of 100. Okay. So you're writing a series of books. Why? Is it for the money? Is it for the fame? Is it for the notoriety? Because we've sold so many. Yeah. Not enough. No. Go and buy the book. Yeah. Go buy more of the book. You know what? buy a hundred copies yeah for your friends and family and co-workers so why are you doing this series of books well at first it was to get all these ideas in my head out okay and it did it forced me to um articulate and form a model that i could reuse over and over again and explain to other people easily. So it kind of forced that. And I have a passion around this, so much so that I want everyone to understand it. I want people to see that there's hope out there, because there's a lot of people that are really scared right now. I want them to see, no, you're in control. We're talking about becoming AI augmented humans. We, the human, is still in control. It's the that's the most important thing. And I truly believe that AI can bring the best out of people instead of us being relegated to doing nothing, which some of the CEOs out there in the big gen AI companies are saying, oh, we just need to pay people to exist. I think that's horrible. There's so much value that we can provide. And if we can be augmented with this new technology, that's even better. Okay. So that's my passion behind it. Okay. The series of books I am tackling the education market I do teach at Vanderbilt and I have been using these techniques for last year with my classes And now we tackling the education market as well I'm writing a series of books for education, and I'm getting some great help from some fellow professors and administrators on writing those books based off of the same thing, the AAOS, the AI Augmented Operating System. So I'm really excited about it. It helps more people are getting involved in it. So it's turning into this movement. I call it the AI augmented movement. And you really enjoy it. You really enjoy doing this. I do, right? It's a lot of fun. Yeah. And I enjoy having a husband that just is on his computer 24-7. I mean, it's a blast. There's the sarcasm. It is so fun. All right. So do you like, what do you do on the beach, honey? Oh, here we go. Here we go. He's going back to when we used to go on a vacation. You and I would go on a vacation and I'm sick because I love the beach. The beach is my happy place. And I would bring a book, right? And, you know, nap, read, pina colada, nap, read, repeat, pina colada. And you tried to do that the first couple of times we went because I think you thought that that's what I wanted you to do. That is what you wanted me to do. Let's be clear. And then probably on our second or third vacation, you like get out your computer. And I'm like, you're bringing a computer to the beach. Yeah, because you thought I was working. Yeah, I was like, what what do you like? You're supposed to be relaxing. You're like, I am relaxing. I am relaxing. You don't enjoy listening to too many. You know, you don't enjoy listening to fictional books, really, about murder. I mean, you do. when we go on a car ride, we always listen to a book. But you don't sit down and read a book for entertainment purposes very often. Hardly ever. So you tried to explain to me that you being on your computer and coding or writing a book or whatever you're doing, that is your way to relax. And so I grasp it now. I have no problem with you being the only person on the beach with your computer. I am not the only person on the beach with my computer anymore. Other people, I started a trend. It's a trend. Okay. So yes, I don't have a problem with it anymore. As long as I have to remind him sometimes to give me some attention. Yeah, that is true. I do get lost when I'm writing. I get lost in the characters that I'm developing. I get lost in the philosophy behind the models that I build. Yeah. So, and I told you, pull me back in so I don't get lost. I do. I have to, I have to pull him back in. Now, what I think people also might be interested in, so when did you write your first book? When did you start writing your first book? Probably in, when was it, January? Yeah, probably. Probably January. So since January, you have published two books, and you are well into some of your others. The third and fourth book. So how are you doing this? I mean, I think when most people think about writing a book, it's a year, two year, a five year process. How are you writing these books so fast? So this is actually pretty cool. I use the techniques I talk about in the book to help write the book. So I start with my core foundation, which I mentioned, the AI augmented operating system. And I really focus on that. how can that be used to help people to help teams organizations teachers students administrators whatever the case may be and i focus on building that out then i have created several ai agents that help me make sure i'm i have consistency throughout my corpus and then i'm working with partners now because I want more perspectives coming in. I interview them about the corpus. We capture stories. And then from that, we build up this profile of all this great content. And then I have about 35 to 40 agents that help me actually write the book. So developing character arcs, all that stuff. And this is where I can truly show that I'm AI augmented because I don't know all the nuances of writing. I don't. And I probably never will. Right. But AI can help cover some of those gaps. I still am in control. I still control the character arcs. I still control the storylines. I have all of the work that I've already spent on the corpus. And it's bringing all that together with a new lens to help people from their perspective. Like the book we're writing for students, for example. I haven't started that one yet, but we are writing one for educators. And I'm interviewing other professors at other universities on their findings on using AI and walking through the AOS with them. And they're teasing out areas where I need more strength or I need to draw back a little bit. and we're capturing all that in a very unique way. And we're really excited about it. The people I'm working with are like, this is amazing. We can get our ideas out so quickly and revise them so quickly. So that's how I'm doing it. I'm using AI to help me write these books in an AI-agmented way. Okay. So there you go. I think it's wonderful. I think it's wonderful. And I say this, I've said this many times, as we get older, I want to be less busy, less, and you want to be more busy. You've got your podcast, you teach, you have a wonderful job, you're writing books, like you want to be. I don't, there's a part of me that says, I have all this experience. I want to pass it on. Right. I always tell people, you feel like you have an obligation for the things that you know. You feel like you have an obligation to share that with people. I do. I do. You do. You have a passion and an obligation. You say, I need to let people know these things. And I don't know if that's fame. I really don't care. No, you don't care about fame. But I do care to leave a legacy behind. Right. Yes. is that? So there you go. That's us in a nutshell. Okay. Love you. Are you sure? I'm sure. Thank you, Paige, for the insightful interview. This is what I take away from this interview. The first lesson is that AI should be measured by how well it extends human judgment, not by how much it automates without oversight. The second is that many professionals are already using AI in a limited, improvised way, which means leaders need a more disciplined model for context, review, and accountability. The third is that fear is often a signal that people do not yet see where they fit in the new workflow. That is a management problem, not just a technology problem. Executives should ask themselves whether their teams know which tasks AI should absorb, which decisions must stay human, and how quality will be checked. They should also ask whether their AI strategy is building confidence or dependency. The broader trend here is clear. The winners over the next several years will not be the organizations that use AI most aggressively, but the ones that use it with the most integrity. That is how you stay relevant, credible, and in control. Thanks for listening to Embracing Digital Transformation. If you enjoyed today's conversation, give us five stars on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube. It really helps others discover the show. If you want to go deeper, join our exclusive community at patreon.com slash embracing digital, where we share bonus content and you can always connect with other change makers like yourself. You can always find more resources at embracingdigital.org. Until next time, keep embracing the digital transformation. you