John Mayer (FBF)

There used to be very little visibility and control in Treasury. Today, JPMorgan Payments delivers real-time dashboards and control at your fingertips. That's the power of clarity. That's JPMorgan Payments. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. John Mayer, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you, Alex. I am so happy you're here, John. I think we need to tell the Daddy Gang who are my listeners, how did we get here? Because we went to a little dinner the other night, and I want to kind of go through what happened at that dinner because people are probably like, how did you get John Mayer to come on your show? There's only one way which is to find me personally, have dinner with me, be cool, and you're actually an incredible pitch woman for coming on the show. And I didn't really have an intention of coming on. We had a great dinner, Cassie David, you and me, and I think there's something to do with December where you've all year been yourself, followed your rules, done what you normally do, don't do what you don't normally do, and I think somewhere in the last couple of weeks of each year I go like, I want to do something out of character. I'm so happy this is what you're calling out of character and you get to sit down with me because I pitched you why you should come on the show, and you and I kind of battled for a minute, meanwhile Cassie sitting there eating her chips, loving every second of it, just being so happy that she's been rotated. It was a debate. And you decided to come on. What I liked about that meeting at dinner was that you are very sure of yourself. Have you always been that confident? Like what were you like in high school? Oh, that's, I've had some degree of confidence. It took that to get out of my town, to get into the world, to push against the forces of people who were saying, not just not encouraging me, but actively discouraging me from doing what I ultimately have done. And so the quality of that confidence has changed from like a beat down every door, push yourself on people as much as you can all the time to something way more relaxed. So everyone when they first start out is way more confident than they need to be, they know how confident they need to be, right? Oh, interesting. And so I was kind of obnoxious when I was younger. I mean, if you're spending your whole youth pushing against these forces of you can't do it, you're crazy, you're going to end up on the street, this is a terrible idea. That's going to have a hangover effect on you for a long time where you're going to still keep pushing. That's really interesting because I can imagine like I was, why I'm asking about high school is because I feel like we can agree that there's such formative years where peer approval socially is so important towards the way that you view yourself. How did you get along with people and how did people treat you? I didn't and they didn't. I didn't have a presence. I went to school to get it over with and my life began at three o'clock in the afternoon when I came home and played guitar. So I didn't dislike anybody and I almost didn't even need that particular level of approval. I was kind of invisible and I just went to go. I didn't really pay attention in class. It's really hard to explain and there are people out there who I think would understand when you're 13 years old, you got five years before you can even do anything on your own. And that was the hardest part of my entire life was from 13 to getting out of high school because you already know what you know and you have to go through the rest of this kind of rote plan that's been set for everyone. And I remember sitting in class going like, I'm not supposed to be here. So you were saying you knew what you wanted to do. You knew you were going to be a musician. You're like, why am I in social studies? What the fuck am I doing here? Did people bully you? Were you the dorky musician or no? I was bullied a little bit but I was always kind of big. I was tall. Remember getting punched in the arm for flinching? I don't know if that's still a thing. This is the most butch your show has ever been. I'm talking to you about Christmas special. Okay, did you date in high school? I had one girlfriend in high school but I didn't really date. I had one girlfriend in high school. What was John like in high school dating? Probably the best version I ever was of myself. I would like to think that was the best version and the next time is the best version. I only had one girlfriend before everything changed in my life. To me, like the truest, most innocent, realist, like sweetest, it was high school. Did you ever through your fame wonder if you should reach back out? I did reach back out a few times. Because you were looking for what? Maybe to bring that part of my life into the new part of my life. But by that point, she was married and had kids and I thought that's a separate chapter. Or that thing in my life was a separate chapter. I don't have to talk to people to know that I'm okay, that we're okay. I think that's telepathic. I liked you said that at dinner. There are certain people in your life that you don't need to be in their life anymore. But it's really cool when you have a mutual understanding whether it's an ex, whether it's someone that was your friend at some point. To just be like, we don't need to talk to know we're good. We don't talk anymore for whatever reason. There are a couple of little outstanding, still vibrating things. I would love to get to 100% closure. I don't think that's realistic in anyone's life. Do you have someone in your life that it's always going to be incomplete? Yeah. I think everyone has a couple of those. But for the most part, it's been important for me to move on into my adult years in my life with the peace of like, we're cool. We don't have to talk. Okay, so we're about to leave high school because I'm just kind of going through the journey of you. You performed at your high school graduation. Yes, I did. Were people nice to you then or no? Yeah, that was right around the time where I started to reveal myself as a guitar player and I was in a band and we'd written a couple songs. We'd written a song for graduation. I didn't actually graduate at that ceremony. So I didn't get enough credits to graduate. I had to go to summer school. And so it was a very deep moment to play that song and walk off the field while the rest of my friends graduated and I walked home. Okay, but just so everyone knows. How bluesy is that? Six years later, you're a Grammy-winning artist. This part freaks me out. Chronologically speaking, this part is maybe one of the only aspects of my life that truly blows my mind. Why? Because it's such a short period of time that felt longer to me. I graduated in 1995 and six years later I was playing arenas. At that point I was playing clubs, but I had an album out and that would end up winning Grammys and that was six years. So it didn't really fucking matter that you had to go to summer school. You're like, I didn't even need to graduate. No, and you know what I always think now is like there are people who get branded, misfit, loser, you know, in some way sort of develop mentally disabled. No, they're not. They're on some other track that they have no school for, you know. I love that you're saying that too because it goes back to what you said of like, I was sitting in that class and I knew I wasn't supposed to be there, but I had to be there. I was writing lyrics. It's interesting to hear you say like, it's so crazy to me that six years after I graduate college, I'm winning a Grammy for your body as a Wonderland. Yeah. You were dating someone at the time that you're writing this iconic song, which you weren't. No, I wasn't. You weren't? No, that was about my first girlfriend. Wait, what? That was about the feeling, which I think was already sort of nostalgic. I was 21 when I wrote that song and I was nostalgic for being 16. I thought it was about a different. No, that's that's one of those things where people just sort of form that idea. It gets reinforced over the years. No, no, no, I had never met a celebrity when I wrote that song. Wait, and did your high school girlfriend know you wrote that about her? That's a good question. Maybe she didn't. Maybe she didn't. To this day. To this day, maybe she didn't. Yeah. So if you were my high, my one and only high school girlfriend, that was actually about you. And this happens a lot with songs, right? I've made a rule. I guess I always had a rule that I would never tell anyone what's I don't. I don't write songs about people. I don't write them for people or about people. I might use a relationship that inspires me to write something. So yeah, even if I was writing a song because of someone, it's like that goes away and I'm left with the song. So I'm not. I don't like telling anyone that a song is about somebody because most of the time it's not and it takes people away from themselves because they're just visualizing who I'm writing about. But the songs come out. They mean things to people. Sometimes people think it's about one person or the other. Sometimes it hurts the song. Sometimes the song doesn't do as well because people go, well, he's just petty. And I go, that's got nothing to do with that. But I'd much rather keep the sanctity of these songs intact and have a couple of them kind of burn a couple of them because people think it's about one person and it's not because it's really important. The most important thing in my life now is are my songs. Yep. And so when I go play songs now, I'm playing songs that I see people in the crowd are reliving their life. It ain't about anyone but the people I'm singing to. It's now about their college years. It's about their sick family member who died. It's about their fight with cancer and how they beat it. It's these songs now for people are these waypoints in their lives. It's not about any one person. The first three, three records in my life was just like proving, proving and you should. And then you start hearing people tell you, thank you. Your music got me through a dark time. That's so much deeper. I mean, I definitely think everyone should have those proven years and enjoy them. Yeah. Because I definitely did. Like now do you see now do you see? And I had a lot of that. I had a lot that I had to get out when I first started and it was obnoxious to them and I get it. And I think it explains a lot of younger people who have just hit the scene who you're like, this person is obnoxious. I have a lot of grace for it because I you never know how hard someone had to punch to get out of their town or their family or a really, you know, and, and you just, I think that's where people were like, I got the douchebag title a lot and I was trying incredibly hard. But I had been trying incredibly hard since I first played the guitar to get where I needed to get. I couldn't get the message like, John, they like you just fine. You can calm down. They like you just fine. Yeah. You know, I really appreciate you explaining it that way because I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I now to have a different opinion, especially maybe in the music industry or, you know, actors and actresses, like the way that maybe people are being perceived online and the way they're acting probably is really not who they are. It's they're trying to elevate to get the attention to get the approval and eventually as you see people in their careers and this is, you don't even have to be famous to have this. You can be doing it at your job. You can be doing it socially. You're trying to make a name for yourself. You're trying to have a presence and it probably feels inauthentic, but you want to be seen. You want to be heard. You want to feel accepted and that can lead to you feeling like what am I even being myself right now? Yes. So I respect that. That's thank you. I mean, that's what everyone goes through. Everyone by the time they grow up have grace for other people on the way up as they fight through those things. The people who are the most vicious are the people who have yet to ask for grace because they don't need it yet because they still have this view of the world like they're in total control and they're going to make all the right decisions for the rest of their lives until they don't. And I feel like that's just something everyone passes through. What do you cherish the most about the rise of your career? Oh, that's a great question. The rise or where I am now. I'll tell you that I'll answer both. The rise is that it was during a really cool time. I don't think I would have had the same success. I have now if I had begun three years ago, I think I'd be trying and trying and trying on social media and trying to get things out there. I mean, there was just so fewer people doing things that you automatically had more people paying attention. So I'm really lucky that I came up when there were just fewer cars on the road in terms of making songs and having people pay attention to you and being seen. And now where I am now, the greatest thing is that any idea that I have, I can do. Any idea that I have. I feel like if there was a song idea that I had for any musician in the world, I'd have a pretty good chance of them at least listening to it. And that's really interesting to me. That to me is the greatest thing is like the songs I already have that I'll take for the rest of my life, but also any idea that I have, I think that there are any musician in the world would want to go like, I want to hear what Mayor has for me. So I feel like that's the idea that I could bring anything to life that came to mind. That's the ultimate for me. I'm interested. So as your rise to fame, how did your interactions with women change? Oh, that's a that's a good question. And I think I saw the approval of women as being something that was like each time somebody liked what I did, I felt like because of the way that I was brought up, that that was the only time that was going to happen. And so I feel like I was made to believe growing up that if somebody liked me, that was pretty much an accident and that should be capitalized on. And so I felt very deeply when somebody liked me very deeply. I think, look, you know, the elephant in the room is that I'm on a show that caters to women, and I have a couple of name plates on me like Lothario and Womanizer and stuff. And I think, look, that is what that is. That's the role I play on the big TV show that I didn't write. That's fine. Maybe I had a hand in it or something. But I think people would be surprised to know that it was less me going like, you know, the name of the guy behind the tree. It was less this and more like this. Me? Yeah, yeah, you know, because it was always set forth to me that like that shouldn't happen. Right. Like without dissecting into your childhood, the a woman's approval and attention to you. And I think there was an insecurity within you that you perk up and would fight till the end to make sure that you're getting to experience that as long as they're willing to give it to you and you're like waiting for someone to give you the approval and that like breathe, breathe life into you essentially. And you loved a woman giving you attention or validation. Most of that is true. And it's so true. I won't even flat spin about that after this is over. I won't even that's some things are too true for me to get upset about. That's remarkably true. What you just said, except it was a little less overt in terms of me being like, yeah, keep going, keep going. Right. It because I did invest myself. I did invest myself in relationship. Well, and I think we can also agree. And we talked about this a little bit at dinner. Like there's you have perspective now, right? Yeah, like we can wrap things into a bow now. It's like, oh, I see what I was doing in high school. Why I was so insecure and I was looking for the guys validation. And then like I can now see what I was doing in the moment you have the feelings, but you can't put it all into a box. You now can be like, I get it now. I get what I was doing. I see the interactions I had and now I see this theme and now I'm able in later in my life to be like, whoa, that's why I did what I did. Also known as growing up. What a fucking cop. Also known as growing up. And like, like I said, like the people who were going to understand this interview the most are the people who have had that either been on the receiving end or the giving end of that, you know, it's the people who haven't had that yet who will probably have the loudest reactions because they don't understand it yet. And we all meet up at the end of this at the end of these crazy 20s and 30s. We all meet up and I meet people. I can't remember if they were mad at me or if I was mad at them because we all meet up after this craziness and we all go through our own stuff, you know, we all meet up at the end and I say, and we go, Hey, how are you doing? This is, I'm sure a hard question to answer. What is it like? Try your best. Yeah. For almost everyone in the world to know who you are. Um, because I don't really live exposed to all of it. I don't quite feel it and I'm okay with it because it's linked to something that I have to do anyway. I get to do this thing. If I'm having a day where I don't like any of this stuff, I can pick up a guitar and listen to myself play and go, that's why you do it. So the fact that this is all linked to something that I do objectively well that I can listen to and I can write a song, I can play a song, I can play the guitar, that's what anchors me to all this stuff. All of this is happening because I play the guitar, write music and sing in a way that people want to pay attention to. I can't imagine what this would be like if I didn't have that grounding element. And as I get older, I have so much empathy for people who are really well known, but don't quite have something to hold on to like a buoy. You know, my life gives me this buoy, which is I can write a song, I can play guitar. It's tough even that way, but it's not like I'm famous from a thing that happened to me or a thing I was a part of that I was no longer a part of because the person who hired me for the thing didn't want me anymore. So it's very stable. I've come to terms with the fact that it's never going to be another way. And most of it now because I don't really interface with people for anything other than music. For the most part, it's like I have manufactured irrelevance in the parts of my career that I want to be irrelevant. That is really scary to do. It's really scary to come off of that loop when you're in a new cycle, new cycle, new cycle. To really go, I want to shut down this part, that part, that part and that part and feel like you're dying inside because those parts are going away. Now all I have left is like people who want to talk to me want to talk to me about music I make. I'm not trending on Twitter just because I got on a flight. And it was tough. It was tough to be like, yeah, you're going to play music. You're going to play music and you're going to put it all into that and not a day trading how people feel about you. So you're saying that you didn't essentially play the role of the guy in Hollywood, the singer. Everything didn't work well that people started like you said, like people started writing headlines about you. I didn't deserve the role. Why do you think that? It wasn't made for me. I'm the musician guy who writes songs that are like kind of hits. And I thought that I was just through my own manipulation of the thing was an A-lister. And I was going to, I'm an A, I'm an A-list celebrity. I said, no, you're not. But I had this moment in my 20s where I thought, well, this is why I belong. This is why I should be. And obviously it wasn't because I didn't really handle it very well. You know, I was like, didn't handle it very well. And so then that all kind of shut down and I got a chance to start it up again. And I haven't ever been happier in my life. I'm known for what I do. You're kind of essentially alluding to like you fucked up in your 20s or that's what? Yeah, late 20s, early 30s. Okay. Yeah. And that kind of set you on a different course of, Yes. Yeah. I've got a, okay. But a more natural course. I'm only doing what I should be doing. And I think there's a lot of people who are stuck in that loop of like, not being where they want to be, but not wanting to be forgotten. And it's scary. The idea that if you pulled away, you'd be forgotten that if you, if you got off Twitter, you'd be forgotten that if you didn't throw yourself into the mix every day, you'd be forgotten. It's beautiful to be forgotten in the ways you ultimately don't want to be known. You know, what is an experience that shaped who you are that very few people know about? That's a good one. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. I think it's so important, especially for women to talk about people who've been in your life that have helped you, right? You don't have to go through things alone. Maybe it's your sister, your best friend, your partner, your, you know, a female figure you have. It's important that we are able to identify people who we can go to in hard moments. You shouldn't have to do this alone. Women deserve to be celebrated, right? 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And so it's a little bit easier now when you can read other people's experiences and go, oh, okay. I mean, having anxiety in mid-90s, late-90s, it's like, you think you're going crazy, you know? And so that to me gave me so much more depth, so much more depth. Those feelings of panic, those feelings of the walls are closing in. They come with questions. They come with every question. Why can't I sleep? What's going on in the universe? What's going on in my body? Turns into hypochondria. How many... Is my heart beating faster? Is my throat closing? Why do I feel my pulse in my ear and you're on WebMD looking up everything? And whatever that is also makes you super keyed in to yourself in a way that for me, I wrote a lot of... A lot of my music came from wanting answers after feeling really, really lost because I lost my weight just in my head. Like, it got to the point where when I would have an anxious moment, I'd be like, well, here comes a song. Do you ever get that? Totally. But I think there's points where I was worried that good content sometimes comes at your lowest. And it's really hard to describe unless you're a creator where you're wondering if you're self-destructing to... Like, you're going to write a great sad song if you go through a great breakup. I don't have an incredible episode if I break up with my partner. But at what cost for you as an individual outside of your craft and your job is that extremely detrimental to just your life? I never... And I can say this with great confidence. I never tried to induce an experience just to write a song ever in my life. Ever. I've never thought if I do this, I'll get material. I promise you. I would have absolutely, in those moments as a 20, 21, 22, 23-year-old guy, traded every song I was going to write to not have that feeling. No doubt about it. No doubt about it. I would have said take all the songs I'll ever write, stop this feeling from happening right now. And for whatever that feeling was, it just focused my eyes on the important things. What's going on in life? That's where these lyrics come from. That's where my first three records are from. They're about managing anxiety. Why Georgia? Why am I fucking here? Am I living it right? Like, why am I here? There's a song, not myself, on the first record. Would you want me one? That's all about having a panic attack in front of somebody. Suppose I said, would you love me, I don't remember the lyrics, would you want me one? I'm not myself. You ever have a panic attack on a date? No. Oh, man, that's how you bond with someone right there. John, you often have a panic attack on a date? Yes. Well, I mean, they make things you could take now for that. But yeah, I want to, okay. So I went on a date, I was going on a date on my senior year in high school. Like one of the prettiest girls, couldn't believe that I'd gotten to the point where like this girl wanted to go to the movies with me. I didn't drive until I was out of high school. So I was riding shotgun. So right there, I'm being driven by the girl I'm going on the date with. By the time we got to the movie theater, and I was eating like tums because I had such bad nervous stomach. This is before like, you figured out Benzo Diozapines. And I was eating tums, stomach ache. And before we even got out of the car, I was like, I have a stomach ache. Can you drive me home? And she drove me all the way home and I got home. And as soon as I got home, I was like, I'm deeply uncomfortable in a lot of situations. And so for a really long time, I would resist going out with anybody because it would make me so nervous that my stomach, I would just be, it would be terrible. This is why I love sitting down with people because when you think John Mayer, you can get any woman you want, right? In media land. You could get any man you wanted. Thanks, John. I was saying being a famous guy is like being a hot girl. Oh, that's so interesting. Being a famous guy is like being a hot girl. Okay. Well, let me bring up my next question. Okay. People have been obsessed with who you've dated in your career. And if you're going through like the tabloids and everything, you, it's like John Mayer is the guy, right? And recently you joke that you're America's ex-boyfriend. Why did America break up with you? That's my way of taking some of what I think is the air out of a, you know, that's like elephant hunting in the room. I like the statement. Yeah. I mean, that's how they see it. Bottom line, I'm one guy living one life. I don't need 300 million people in my life to agree that I'm an okay person. Most people until the dawn of the internet needed about eight. I've got multiples of eight, which makes me a very happy and lucky human being. I only need to meet one more person that I want to spend the rest of my life with. So I do not need to have this worldwide consensus that I'm an okay guy. What is your type? Right? Hot, successful, makes more money than you. That's really funny. Well, I mean, every relationship I've ever been in was devoted to the idea that this could go the distance. My entire life today included if you told me that I could have a great two months with someone, but it would end on the first day of the third month, I would not be interested. I have always sought potential for long term relationship. I know what my mistakes were looking back. Not worth talking about. We all, as long as you do the accounting, as long as you do your homework as a human being as you stand in the shower and you waste a little water. And you go, yeah, I really meant well, but I did do that. Or, yeah, they meant well, but they did do that. And you go, wouldn't do that again. I would approach that a different way, maybe even from the beginning, maybe even from day one, seeing them across the room. Who knows, as long as you're aware of what those things are and how you can apply that to the next relationship, I don't see a problem with any past relationships ending badly. I agree. I just don't. Mine are different because they are well known. And I have not had a relationship in a lot of years. And it's funny how I think I started to notice like people would look at pictures of hot dudes on the internet and be like, I love this guy. I'd be like, that picture is from 2002. You know what I mean? And it helps me understand that we tend to hold on to the part of someone's history that we sort of revealed itself the most or was the brightest, the most easy to visualize. And so I still look, I'm still in a lot of people's minds in a good way doing something I'm not doing anymore, whether they're attached to a record or a tour I was on. They still want to share YouTube videos of a tour I did in 2014 or whatever. And there are still people who go, oh yeah, he's the manhole or whatever. But it's not on each and every person to update their knowledge of me every year. You know what I mean? But it's like you haven't updated your Facebook status. There you go. So everyone's looking at your like 2009. That's actually a brilliant observation. It's like the world creates my Facebook status. But so here's why that's okay. If somebody gets you a little bit wrong, if you said something and someone recounts it and they get one word wrong and it makes something sweet sound not sweet, you're going to jump out and go, that is not what I said. Here's how I said it. You're going to fine tune that thing that you're being misunderstood for. There comes a point where if you're so misunderstood, it's almost like they're thinking about a different person. So the me that most people who don't know me are thinking about is so far away from me that I don't actually feel... I don't actually feel like disrupted in any way by it. They're talking about a character or a thing that's been like an artifact, right? Like this one little glitch that sort of grew and became this other thing. I don't feel the need... And I hope you don't think this is like me going like, let me set the record straight. No, no, no. You're just taking us through your psyche. Being misunderstood at this age is nowhere near as painful as it was being misunderstood in my 20s. And a lot of the shit that I did in my 20s was an attempt to reset the misunderstanding. And I made it worse. Someone said to me years ago, you're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you. I've never heard a more true thing said to me. And I look at other people right now and I go, Elon Musk, you're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you. I see it and I have grace for other people trying to do it. We haven't learned that retreat is an option. Retreat is an option. I don't know where this idea of stubborn fight to the death stuff came from. You'll lose everything. It's really interesting to hear you talk about it because what I think we can also get to, and you don't have to be famous to have this, being misunderstood, there is something inside of all of us at one point when you start to feel that. It's a really exhausting, scary feeling and you really want to fight to correct everything. If there's a room about you in high school, if something happens at your job and people see you the certain way, you start to spiral and then there's that moment where all of a sudden, after so much fighting, so much clawing, so much trying to eat them up, right? You're like at peace with like, I don't give a fuck because you're good with yourself. Your reality is stronger than their ability to distort it. And at first, when it's not, it's one of the most sickening, frightening, painful things to have your reality distorted. And if you're smart, theoretically, you start coming up with a plan to engineer how to undistort the reality that's been distorted. And that's the beginning of the failure because your behavior stops being natural and starts being what I did. If you're going to distort me, I'm going to distort me. I lost myself in that. The idea of I'm going to be more like you think I am as a way to somehow phase cancel what it is as if playing into it would make everyone in the world who shares my exact thinking go, oh, he can't be that because he's acting like that. He's in on it. So that didn't work and that didn't work. And it was like, I look back sometimes I go like, you could have retreated and nobody knows how to retreat because the stakes are so high. The stakes are so high. You've got half of the world going, you love it when you do that. And the other half of the world going, you're losing your mind and you go, well, I know one thing can't give up now. And it's like, but you could. And six months from now, you would be so happy that you did. I feel especially with social media. You're trying so hard to prove yourself on this platform that's fake to begin with. And I really feel like it's helpful to talk through like there is an option to retreat and you don't have to post that photo to prove you were at that place. You don't have to post this photo and edit it so you look a certain way, even though you don't look like that way in person. Like there is just some extreme peace in allowing yourself to enjoy what's in front of you and the people that know you and care about you and your friends and your family. I've been subjected to it where I'm trying to prove that I'm not this girl and I'm not this girl. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I don't even know these people. Yeah. What am I doing? And you're losing your center point. Yeah. And I also think that people need to go through that. A lot of times people think that the stuff that didn't go right in their life was a mistake. And I don't think it's a mistake because I don't think there's any other way around it. I don't even look at it like a problem. It's like that's just the way it has to go. Have you ever been in love? Have you ever been in love? Yes. You're currently single. Currently single. Looking back at past relationship is relationships. Is there anything that you have looked for of something of like a theme of what you want to work on within yourself moving forward? That's a hot question. I don't know yet. Because I haven't gotten, I never really got to the part of relationship that was the smooth sailing part. I have a feeling when I do, I'm going to have a lot to work on. But I'll be excited to work on it because it won't be that incredibly fundamental stuff of like, how do we stay together? You know, like I'm always supremely impressed by couples that I know who are having a hard time but haven't even considered breaking up. That's hot. Like that to me is the hottest. Someone complains about their girlfriend or their wife and you're like, you start to allude to them wanting to go somewhere else and like, what are you talking about? No, I'm not going anywhere else. We're just having a hard time. I love that. And I have a feeling that I'm going to be ready to cop to a little bit of intellectual control issues. Only on an intellectual side. Like I can be, I can be, I'm trying to be a little more heart overhead, but I can be a little heady. And I think it's cool to say to someone, this is my thing. This is what I'm going to work on. And I love the idea of sharing that with someone and them saying you're doing it again and you go, I'm doing it again. Sorry. What is your dating style? Like, and how has it evolved? Like, what are you like? I don't know. I don't date that that much. I look at it like this. Dating is no longer a codified activity for me. It doesn't exist in any kind of, it's not patterned anymore. I quit drinking like six years ago, so I don't drink anymore. I don't have the liquid courage. How do you feel about that? How has that changed your dating life? You have to be honest. You have to express yourself. You have to be really glaringly honest. Here's who I am. Here's what I like. Here's what makes me nervous. Here's what I reject as an idea in relationship. I don't know about, you know, you have to express your anxieties. You can't just walk over them by drinking. You have to be like, here's what I'm anxious about. And when someone in life accommodates your anxiety, that's bonding. Right. Kind of cutting past the surface level bullshit and being like, can we connect on a way that feels cozy and like we know each other past just like, hey, so like, where did you grow up for? Yeah, you're done with giving the free trial. There comes a moment where your free trial runs out. How quickly will someone know that you're into them? It takes me a while. It takes me a while. I think the way to my heart now as I get older is I don't know that I have like five hour dates in me. I don't have these deep excursions at a table that go into like the sort of job interview vibe. I would rather have someone, I'll be honest with you. I've thought about this before. I would love someone to say, hey, come on over your house for an hour and a half. I'm bringing my laptop. Just need the Wi-Fi code. I'll be on the couch. I'm not trying to take up all your space. I have a really good feeling about you. I don't want to do the thing where I start to make you feel claustrophobic because I really have a good feeling about you. Give me the Wi-Fi code. I'll eat one of your yogurts. Talk to me when you want to talk to me. I'd be like, I want to do that. Do you know how many people are going to DM you back, John, can I have the Wi-Fi code? I'm going to just come over. Maybe I said that just for a minute. I actually think more people would find love sooner if it was less intense exposure for shorter periods of time, but more frequently. Just settling down, freak you out. Nope. This is the part that always shocks people. They go, you don't want to get married. Of course I want to get married. You're not going to see me go on a battery of dates with different people. I am a pocket listing. I'm not really on, what is it, the MLS. All the heavy lifting is done in my learning what I need to learn. Just in terms of entering into a relationship, I can't wait for someone to be mad at me because I said that I would take the dry cleaning in. And they were going to until I said I would, but then I didn't. And if you're going to tell me you're going to take the dry cleaning, you have to do that because I would love that. I would love that because that would suggest that we're into something deep, meaningful and secure. It goes back to what you said your friends. You're like, okay, so you're going to leave me like fuck no, like we're in this. Nothing's hotter to me than conflict resolution. Conflict resolution. I am horny for conflict resolution in the middle of an argument. We're having an argument and I go, wait, I do do that. I did do that. I'm sorry. You're right. I didn't know you're right. I didn't get it. I do do that. I'm sorry. What's something that is currently keeping you up at night? What's something that is currently keeping me up at night? Metaphorically keeping me up at night. Yeah. Whether I should put out a whole record as my next release or song at a time. Can't tell. Put a record out, you get a week comes and goes. Put a song at a time out and you get repeated shots, repeated looks at the ball. So I would. But I sleep pretty. What's that? So I wouldn't you do that? I think I'd probably put a song at a time out. I think I think I think song at a time is right for this next record. Like I would love a record personally so I can just binge it like little Netflix moment. But I get what you're saying is like you get to kind of. Yeah, I'm not on a label anymore. And so that's kind of keeps me up at night that the next thing I do would seem to be. Would seem to be hope it was small enough that a camera couldn't catch it. You literally go, I'm not with label anymore. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was badly timed. That was badly timed. What's up, bitch? I'm not with the label anymore. Can I also get a nail file? So I can. Can I get a nail file say I'm not with the label anymore? No, sorry. I'm deeply concerned about anything being on this dark sweater. Oh, looking good. Thank you. Being not being on a label feels a little bit like the next thing I do. I have to prove myself. Can you explain what or how is your writing going? Like you write everything. I write everything. I mean, that part's really fun looking back on it to have 100% ownership of the songs I've written. But it's I mean, it's hugely time consuming. Yeah, hugely time consuming. And as you get older, time gets more valuable, which makes this. You know, this deep diving that I do feel a little harder because. No matter how old you get, this stuff still takes a year to write. Yeah. You know, when you're one guy and you want to sound like your five guys, you've got to be yourself five different ways and you can't do that all in one day. So the way you make music that sounds really complex is to hit it repeatedly on different days with different mindsets, which takes a very long time, very long time. And then you go to the whole song and you'll go, Oh, I only needed that one verse, which is actually the chorus to this thing. And that dies. And then this moves over to here. And I would never do it any other way. I'd rather not put a record out then fall off in that way. And when you're saying this, like, are you go to a recording studio? I go to a recording studio every day, nine to five. I have a job without it. I would fall apart. How many people are in that studio with you? One or two. Wow. It's just me and an engineer and an assistant. Sometimes the guitar tech comes in and out and I go home. I think about what it did that day, how I can make it better. I'm always writing. I bring a new thing in. Is this a thing? No. Is this a thing? Yes. Actually, no. Is this a thing? Yes. Actually, hell yes. They're all different experiences. And when you win, you go home feeling like a God. Did anyone see what I just brought to life today? I cannot believe I still have it. I still have it. This is incredible. This is incredible. And then you have to go write another one. You go write another one and you're stuck in the same slog that every other song was. And you go, I'm garbage. I don't have it anymore. I'm out. I'm done. You'll find another one. I'm on top of the world. Sometimes I'll write a song and it'll be really good. And I'll go, just don't write another one for two or three days. Relax because you're going to only be as happy as the last thing that frustrated you. Right. You know? What does it feel like to be on stage performing in front of thousands and thousands of people? It's its own dimension. It's its own dimension. I will go on record as saying I'm really different than most musicians in that I don't. And I'm going to have to finish this thought because it's going to sound a little scary if I don't. I don't feed off the energy of the craft. It is not a drug to me. You hear people say when the lights go down, you hear that noise. It's like, comes to me like a drug. And I know that's how most people feel. That's not how I feel. Every night before I go on stage, I go, okay. All right. Here we go. Because I'm a little nervous to do that. Not that I don't think I'm going to be any good at it, but just the act of it is foreign. And then I'll get on stage. Okay. All right. And then somewhere in the middle of the first song, I'm gone. I'm gone. I'm having the time of my life. The one thing people don't understand about that job, the entire time I am up there, I am worried that they're not having as good a time as I could give them. Not worried to the point where it's unpleasant, but it is a constant consideration. Do they want this song? Or do they want a different song? Are they waiting for this song to be over? Or do they want the next song? Am I playing like, if I had to make a set list right now, I'd hate it because I have so much music from so many different areas of music that I don't know what anybody's exactly wants. So I have to start writing a set list that would disappoint people equally and satisfy them equally. And so I only want people to go, that was great. I only want them to be happy. Right. And I have a lot of time while I'm playing going like, they want this one. And the answer is always, yeah, man, they want those songs. But while I'm playing, it's a very strange mix of like hyper confidence. And like the person I really am, which is like, I hope you like this. Right. Like as I'm like ascending through the cosmos playing guitar, I'm like, I don't know if you like this one or not, but I hope you do. It is the holidays. This is the holiday special. I've never done this before. Are you a New Year's resolution kind of guy? Vaguely. I don't, I also think like I've done well enough in my life that I don't have to like overhaul everything as I go through. Yeah. I'm a New Year's resolution guy. Are you asking me what that might be? Do you have one? No, not yet. I'm going to come up with that on vacation. This is part maybe of the New Year's resolution, which is to just do things that are a little uncharacteristic, what you find uncharacteristic every once in a while. And so this is really me going like, okay, this is out of character and that's okay. I know it's out of character. It's going to be okay. If I say a thing that the news cycle picks up and gives me a headache for two or three days, I know I'm going to be okay. So there might actually be something that exists that I didn't see coming. That's really nice for people to go, oh, I never really heard him talking long form. You know, so we're kicking off your New Year's resolution. You coming on caller daddy. Yeah. Okay. You're going to kill me. I begged you to. This is what it's okay. I beg John. Yeah. I know there's a guitar here on the. To bring his guitar. Yes. More because, you know, I love the daddy gang. Everyone listening watching. I love you selfishly. I need you to play just a couple things. I get it. You want to watch, you want to watch me do the thing I just talked about for now. Yes. Okay. Get the guitar. Let's go. Here we go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.�������� Oh my dear, we're slow dancing in a burning room Oh yeah, yeah, yeah Oh no, no, I'm in a burning room Don't you think we ought to know by now Don't you think we should have learned somehow Don't you think we ought to know by now, by now Don't you think we should have learned somehow I don't wanna burn, I don't wanna burn And burn and burn and burn and down and down My dear, we're slow dancing in a burning room Thank you very much Wow, I have no words Thank you, it's not like, there's like this guitar solo stuff that I do in the song But on an acoustic I just have to be like No, it's fine We can use that line in Georgia We love I am driving up 85 in the kind of morning that lasts all afternoon I'm just stuck inside the gloom Give me another one You know who says? I think I heard it It goes that It goes that Who says I can't get stoned? Turn off the lights and the telephone Me and my house alone Who says I can't get stoned? Who says I can't take time And meet all the girls in the county line Wait, I'll fade to sin this time Oh, I did it wrong It's okay Don't you see the cheat of having a guitar? Yeah Do you do this before you have sex with someone? No, I do it after sometime No, you should never play guitar to have sex with someone But a little naked guitar playing after is very memorable With a little gut hanging over Sitting on the end of the bed with a little gut hanging over You know? It's nice I don't think anyone is staring at your gut, John I like the way people look when they fold all up All weird when they sit up No matter who you are You look weird when you sit up But it's cute You look great right now Sure, everyone, no matter who you are You sit up Of course You're humans, we have skin Yeah, after you're all done Everyone just looks sort of dopey in a cool way So, yeah This is actually when I came up with I came up with Who says I can't get stoned? I think I was in bed A little stoned on a bed And it was after having some fun And that's when an acoustic guitar is great It's so lame to do it before So you're telling me that a special someone got to watch you create a line I think so In pro-damp Can you sing Daughters? Yes, I can sing Daughters And Daughters, I think You might have been on this guitar I wrote that in 2003 I was in New Zealand or Australia And I was in the shower when I came up with it And got out of the shower naked And skipped the next thing I had to do Which was a radio interview I was like, I can't do the radio interview I have to write this song Because it was the cyclical As soon as I broke Because, you know, it was like Fathers, be good to your daughters Daughters will love like you do You know, that was interesting And then when I came up with the circle of Girls become lovers Who turn into mothers And then I came up with So mothers be good to your daughters too That whole swirl I was like, that's something Like the geometry of that It seems like a lot of your songwriting Is happening when you're naked Because a lot of things, yes Yes, in the shower a lot I want to put a microphone in the shower But what I like about daughters is that For all the tracks people use for songs And I love songs with a lot of tracks But this is one of the songs where The whole song is on the guitar This is the whole song of Daughter That's the song It's like pressing play-up Except for the shaker I know a girl She puts the color inside of my world But she's just like a maze Where all of the walls are continually changed And I've done all I can To stand on the steps with my heart in my hands Now I'm starting to see That maybe it's got nothing to do with me Fathers be good to your daughters Daughters will love like you do Girls become lovers Who turn into mothers So mothers be good to your daughters too Now the thing that people got wrong about that song Was that I'm not really talking too far I'm not a 24 year old guy going like Hey, older meant it was It's about the frustration of wanting To have a relationship with someone who can't Because of upbringing So if you've ever met someone you're like Oh, I can't fix this particular part of your operating system And then you're so desperate Because you wish you could have that person That it really is a leap of logic to say You're so upset that you're going like Stop, you know what I'm saying? I wanted this girl so badly to be To be able to receive my love Who's ass do I have to kick? And I think it got read That's what happens when you work metaphorically As people misunderstand it a lot And so I think people thought that I was just like Well, I'm 24, let me tell dads how to raise their daughters But it's like a big first dance wedding song And I think it works both ways And as I get older, it works a little easier as both ways I just didn't think it made sense to some people at a 24 Wait, now I didn't get that obviously And now I completely get it where it's like Oh, you're kind of being like I love this girl so much But she's a little fucked up because her dad did I earned the mom Yeah, it's this idea that It's a little selfish, you know? Like, hey, I kind of wanted to love this person Asshole Right It doesn't make it, it's emotional It sounds logical, but it's mostly emotional What is the one, okay, I'm going to forget the name Because it's not Give me keywords, it's fine I'm not upset Not broken heart, but it's like not dancing with a broken heart Dreaming with a broken heart Dreaming with a broken heart Yeah Such a good one It's on the piano, but It's weird to do on the guitar Sounds exactly the same It's up there, but it's like It's like I have to really sing it Now I figured out how to sing it now No, she's not here Cause she's gone, gone, gone, gone, gone When you're dreaming with a broken heart The giving up is the hardest part Isn't that what it is? I think so She takes you in with her crying eyes Is that giving? I don't remember It's perfect And all at once you start to Is that the same lyrics as the I don't know, but I'm crying Yeah, that's right All at once you start to say goodbye Wondering What did you say my love And will you wake up by my side No, she won't Cause she's gone, gone, gone, gone And it's like How about being old enough now That I can't remember some of those songs I need to be picturing myself driving home From a break, I'm like I'm like, John! Right Do I have to fall asleep With roses in my hand That's right Do I have to fall asleep With roses in my hand Yeah Then that's a way up Do I have to fall asleep With roses in my Roses in my hand And would you get them if I did No, you won't Cause you're gone, gone, gone, gone, gone Right, and then it goes Just the verse one more time When you're dreaming with a broken heart The waking up is the hardest part I haven't played a song in a while That song got me through So much heartbreak Yeah, I did I woke up one day I was making continuum I woke up and I had a dream about someone And I had a crush on them the whole rest of the day Because I had had a dream about them Do you still have dreams when you wake up And you loved someone And now you have a crush And you're all emotional for them Oh yeah, you're thinking about them It's the best feeling in the world As you get older But I went to the studio And they were working on something else And I went and sat in this big reverb chamber And closed the door And I was like, I've got to work on this song And that's all about the pain of having a dream About someone that you don't know But have a crush on Or that you know and have a crush on For me, I didn't really know this person But just had a crush on them I'll never say who Cause it's random, it's very random It's not... Yeah, waking up is the hardest part Wow Yeah, cause you're like, ugh John, I want to... I'm gonna speak for the masses That you just made A lot of people's holidays Oh cool It's truly like, it's so fucking cool to see Uh huh, okay, I mean... Mhmm Keep talking I... Yeah, this is a good way to end the show I'm really happy that you came on the show We got deep We had fun We're friends now, which is fun I have a new friend Thank you for sharing your location with me Kazzy was like, he does that Yeah, I'm excited Um, no, you brought out a side of yourself That I really appreciate you sharing Because it is very cool to see someone That is so huge in their own way But to get to sit with you and hear Just a little bit of the personal side of you Makes this even cooler Thank you Thank you for being kind to me Good to me Making me feel comfortable I'm now a fan of the show Um, I... If you... I don't know if there's an initiation into the Daddy Gang But I will do whatever it takes I think you have to look into the camera To say, hi Daddy Gang Hi Daddy Gang Woo, John Mayer Thank you so much for coming on Colorful I'm so glad you're here John Mayer, thank you so much for coming on Color Daddy Thank you for having me It was a pleasure So much fun Have yourself a merry little Christmas Let your heart be light From now on our troubles will be out of sight And have yourself a merry little Christmas now Woo, John Mayer Woo Thank you very much You might have to edit that one I didn't nail that bridge Thank you