Knicks comeback vs. Cavs in Game 1, Thunder vs. Spurs Game 2, Landon Donovan joins

It's a show that cannot believe the Knicks won that game. Just can't believe it. You can't? Team of Destiny, baby. You were the confidence in the fourth quarter. Oh, wow. That's your pick now? To win it all? Wow. Might be. Never enough. Bad news for Knicks, man. Yeah, that's horrible. Go with it. I was not confident in the fourth quarter. No. However, I also did not think they were dead. I certainly wasn't confident. Once Dodamnit starts going like this, I'm just kidding. First hour, honestly, might be the only hour of first things first. We've got to go on play. Andy's Andy. Today, an epic comeback at the Garden. Why the Knicks just proved they can win it all. It's told you. It's true. World Cup Wednesday, US soccer legend Landon Donovan joins the show. And finally, are we expecting another epic game from Wemby, or does the alien, come back down to Earth? Wow. Why would the alien come back down to Earth? Because he lives here. Onside, Chris Bessard. I'm Kevin Wilde's Nick Wright, who's all of a sudden a Knicks fan. Again? No, it's a. Again? He's just searching for a team. He's had like six teams this postseason. I mean, come on. It's been a big guy's break. They haven't lost in a month. Yeah. It's been a month. I'm catching the fever. I live in the city. It was your first game. They do have a shot. They have a shot. That's right, Drew. My whole NBA fandom dates back to a Knicks game in 1993. All right, we're starting. We've always been anti-Jord. That's correct. Knicks were rusty and dead in the water after nine days off down 22 in the fourth. And Jalen Brunson took over. The Knicks go on an 18 to one run force over time. They ended up winning by 11, which is absurd. Brunson at 38. Here he was after the game. Time to weigh. I don't have an answer for you. 44 to 11. That's the last seven, seven and a half in the fourth quarter. And over time, just what was different? What started working for you? I mean, we got some stops. We kept fighting, kept believing. Just kept tipping away. And they were playing great basketball. And we just found a way. I really don't have an answer. I saw that. Are you viewing this game as a Cavs collapse or a Knicks comeback? Listen, I want to give my beloved Knicks all the flowers imaginable. And I, at least, will talk more about the Knicks in a bit. But I will, I do not remember this. I will not remember this as an all-time Knicks comeback. I will remember this as an all-time Cavs collapse. And that is not always the case. I mix metaphors a bit. I don't view 28 to 3 in the Super Bowl as the Falcons making error after error after error. As much as I view it as the Patriots doing everything perfectly along the way, I think the Chiefs have had a lot of big second half playoff comebacks that I think are more about the team taking it than the other team giving it away. So I don't always view it this way. The Brown 3-1. Yes. I don't always view it as you choked or you collapsed. I do last night, though. And it was just a comedy of self-inflicted errors by Cleveland that created the type of comeback I can't remember in that it was the Knicks had zero fast break points during the comeback. It wasn't. They're getting steals and getting out in transition. The Knicks, obviously they shot well and Brunson was great. But they didn't all of a sudden hit seven straight 3s. And it's like, OK. No, it was, we're going to get a stop. We're going to go get a bucket. We're going to get a stop. We're going to go get a bucket. And obviously James Harden's fingerprints are all over this on both ends of the court, most notably defensively. And Kenny Atkinson, who I have thought for a long time and still think is a good coach, I believe froze. And the fact that he had four timeouts when they were up 22 and still had four timeouts when they were up five was inexplicable. And so I think the Cavs had to do 25 things poorly on both ends of the court just to have a chance to lose this game. And they did all 25 of them. So to me, that is a Cavs collapse. I will, though. I agree with a lot of what you said, obviously. But I will remember this as a great Knicks comeback. If they win the series, which I expect them to in five, as I've said, this will go down. This will be a historic game for them, especially if they go on to win the championship. Like this game will be remembered as the Larry Johnson four point play against Indiana. I think that was maybe the last time they went to the finals. I'm not sure the years. 99. That was 99. I was covered. I was at that game. But yeah, we remember that. We will remember this. The Allen Houston shot against Miami. Also 99. So. And I'm a longtime Knicks fan. I asked him all these things. Yeah. But. It's 99. That was the last time they've been in the finals. But this, because it's New York and it's Cleveland, everything in New York is bigger. Obviously, it's our biggest city in the country. But because of the Knicks history, haven't been to the finals since 99, haven't won a championship in 53 years. Jalen Brunson, who we'll talk about more in a little while, 15 points in the fourth quarter. Like there, the Knicks are just the so much bigger of a team in a city that this, I will remember this as an historic comeback. That said, it was more of a collapse. Any time in this number, I thought we might use it. Teams with a 22 point lead in the fourth quarter in playoff history in the NBA. Going in the last night were 594 and one. Yeah. And now they're 594 and two. And if you said 22, we do have a graphic, if you want to throw it up, Dust, just a 20 point lead in the playoffs in the fourth, like up 20 in the fourth quarter, 747 and four, up 20 in the final eight minutes, 688 and two. Right, because it was seven and a half minutes left. They were down 22. They were up 20, right. 688 and two as well. And it was 681. It was 681 prior to last night. So those numbers just show that no team really is gonna come back from down 22 with 12 minutes, but let alone seven minutes left. All right, so the other team has got to collapse. And that's what the Cavs did. You mentioned Kenny Atkinson. Look, Harden, I know he's not a very good defender. And Atkinson actually said he's been one of our best defenders in the playoffs. I imagine he has some type of analytics to back that up. And I, look, like I said, Harden's not a good defender. If you watch, I think we may have video of the six times Jalen Brunson cooked him in the fourth quarter, straight up hunting him. I gotta be honest, Harden was there. Like he wasn't, that's there. That's a great shot by Jalen. Do we have more of them? But Harden was, I mean, not one, but that's some action. So, but I mean, Harden, you know, that's a contest. I mean, he was, Jalen Brunson shakes everybody. I'm just saying it wasn't like Harden was a matador. All right, if that's the right term. And so I just think he, I mean, he was there, but Jalen cooked it and rightly Mike Brown hunted him. Now here's what I would say about Kenny Atkinson. And I get that Harden is a superstar hall of fame and all that. Because Donovan Mitchell is also a very good playmaker who can handle the ball and run the offense. You can get Harden out of there. Yes. You traded for Keyon Ellis at the deadline. Why? Cause he's a great defender. Yup. And you're up 22, they're starting to come back. James, it's not a slight on Jane. Let's just get Keyon in there to stop this thing. And he can actually hit a three. And so I just think that they should have real, I get it, he's a superstar, it's hard to do, but they should have looked at, cause Harden wasn't gardening. He was just, they were hunting. They were just switching. They were hunting him and Mike Brown said as much afterwards. So two reasons why I will remember as a Nick's comeback. Obviously, like you said, being in the garden, just the visual of people going crazy is fantastic. They did this last year against the Celtics too. So overcame a 20 point deficit in game one, the last 30 years, like, oh yeah, this is what they do. And we've been updating this graphic. I don't know when we started to debut this fourth quarter graphic. That's not necessarily Jalen Brunson specific, but in a way it is best fourth quarter point differential this season. It's the Nick's Pistons, OKC Thunder, and the Nick's by a large margin. There's a two point difference between second and third. There's a Nick, go ahead and put it to bank. 23, 63, 86. 86 point difference between the Nick's and the Pistons. This is what they do. So it almost supports your Kenny Atkinson theory. Like this happens all the time. Be careful. They're never dead. They're going to come back. You know what Brunson's up to. Dust, if you can pull my last graphic from the next segment and put it up, the 20 point comebacks thing. In the last two playoffs, the Knicks have four of them. The rest of the league has four of them. That's wild. The Knicks are, I think, four and three in playoff games. There it is. Went down 20 the last two years. The rest of the league's four and 60. That's crazy. So yes, that is a testament to the Knicks. And I want to talk a little more on Atkinson and then dive into Harden for a second. I also thought Atkinson, and this is a little in the minutiae, he was guarding Brunson straight up until the final moment. And then right when he decided to double was, in my opinion, the exact worst time to double. And here's why I'm saying it. Brunson's just cooking them, walking them down two points at a time. He didn't send a double until that hard double, until there was like a minute 20 left when they were up six. At that point, it kind of becomes a math problem of, all right, up six. If he keeps cooking us two points at a time versus now we double, that's what led to the two threes, the bridges three and the shaman three. Backbreakers. Backbreakers. And so it almost felt like he had the worst of both worlds in that regard. But I do think that the almost bigger picture thing is James Harden, his future with the Cavs, how people are going to view him if he ops out of his deal, if he ops in, is he a tradable asset? Because we've only focused on the defense thing. But these graphics keep getting updated. There's a classic. Another game. It's 48 of 188, where he has as many. And last night it was more turnovers his field goals made. Is it six games this postseason where he's had more turnovers in the final? It's six with more. And I'm not sure where I think it's eight with as many. And that's just this. That's this postseason. So that, and then this was he was under 35% new graphic alert. 55 of his 188 playoff games. He's been under 35% from the field. Again, that's well over 20% of his career playoff games. It's in fact, it's over. Is it not? It's almost 25%. I was going to, if we left it up there for everyone else, all those other grades. Here's one. Six percent. That's the turnover that I wasn't even rooting for the cat. You need a new graphic. Silly stuff. So like no look, no look past turnovers. Can I offer one more hypothesis and see if you buy this at all? Sure. Nine days off for the Knicks. They came out horrible. Rusty isn't. Rusty. An old nail. Did you invent that? No. A decade. A trailer nail. That's OK. OK. And you talked about the back to back game sevens. Was this actually just, you know what? We were rusty. We needed three quarters to get a feeling. Yes, exactly. And Caz were just totally. Caz ran out of gas, but it was. So all the decisions, like, this is the way the wave was. But they were. We talk about this sometimes in the NFL when a team really blows it, that I think it was Bronco's Giants last year. That had been the fourth quarter, the Giants had simply taken a knee. Every play, they would have won. And up 22, 7 and 1 half left. You are close to, if you, and I understand it wouldn't be. Shot clock violation. Shot clock violation. Set defense, hard to lose. And so I understand they were out of gas. And the Knicks, this is one of the few home court advantages that really matters, where they, I think, it energized the Knicks. As soon as, once it got to 16, the crowd was like, we're going to do this. It felt like they had built up enough margin of error in Cleveland that even if they were, you know, the marathoner that is almost fainting at the finish line, he's 600 meters ahead. And they just collapsed right before the finish line. Let me say this quickly, though, because we haven't hardly mentioned him. You can't let Donovan Mitchell off the hook either. He is the star of the team. That's true. I get it that Harden historically is a better player right now. Donovan Mitchell, it's his team. He's cooking 29 points with what, eight minutes left in the game, doesn't score again. 0 for 5 in the last 13 minutes of the game. One turnover. He has to, and he wasn't really involved. And I get, you can say, Kenny Akins, why is it Donovan? You're Donovan Mitchell. Go get the ball from James Harden. Yeah, he was moving a little different, I think, too. I mean, maybe it's an injury. No excuse. Get my radar. All right, Brunson ends up with 38. Let's look at his performance when the Knicks were down by 22 when the comeback started. He had 17 points. He goes a nice 8 for 10 from the field. And he was 7 for 19 before that point in the game. What did Brunson prove to you in this game one victory? I'm going to go big picture. Great. He proved, Jaylen Brunson, and I covered his dad, Rick, when he was with the Knicks. Yes, you happened to be that Knicks. Jason Kidd in the Summer League. If you see Rick Brunson in Summer League, he was Jason Kidd. He is one of the greatest stories and most improbable stories in the league right now, like a guy becoming a superstar. I mean, I can't really, I'll just say right now. But it could be if I had the time to really look at the history. It's one of the most, maybe all time. It's one of the most improbable domestic turns to superstardom. Because like Joker's second round pick. Yeah, but that's different. I think they probably got overlooked at that time. Right, because it's harder for a guy whose dad played in the league. You know what I mean? So he's not off the radar. Who's the best player? Who's the best player? You know what I mean? So he's not off the radar. Who's a domestic kid who went to Nova. He was at three years at Nova. So it wasn't like people were looking for him to get in the NBA. He's wins two championships at Nova and still is a second round pick. Yes. Comes off the bench like his first three years, average eight points, nine points, his first two years. And comes to the biggest, most toughest place in the NBA and immediately becomes a star. 24 points a game, first year. Nick's had not been to the conference, past the first round in 10 years. He's taken them past the first round for his four years here in New York. They had not been to the conference finals in, I think, 20 years. He takes them to the conference finals twice in four years. They have not been to the finals since 1999. He looks like he's on the verge of doing that. This guy has become, and I think it was even, I don't know if it was maybe two years ago. The club superstar. When I was like, nah, he can't be on club superstar. He has become one of the greatest, and this is where we start to parse, one of the greatest American players in the league right now. And I mean one of the handful of greatest. He is arguably the most clutch player. He's won that award, obviously, Shay got it this year. In the clutch, though, I can't think right now of a player I would rather have the rock or have on my team than Jaylon Brunson. Bruce taking all my takes. I mean, that was that last thing you said was my headline. I think he's my number one draft pick for guy I would want from an offensive perspective if I'm in a tight late playoff game. I really do feel that way. You feel very comfortable with him with the wrap. His size doesn't matter. He can get any shot he wants. He is utterly fearless. The fact that last night he didn't have it going early. And so when we are talking best Americans, like Aunt, Kade, Tatum, Brunson, they're all kind of in that same mix. He has an argument. The one against him, obviously, is the defense. No doubt about it. And the Knicks have done a good job understanding those limitations and crafting a team around him. But his playoff production, we can throw it up right now. Since he's been a Knick, he's 30 a game in the playoffs. And he has 16, 35 plus point games. No one else has more than 10. And that third in the NBA on 29.6, it's Devin Booker at 29.7 on way fewer games and Shay on 29.8. So the point is, Shay is the best player. Yeah, Shay's two time MVP. And by the way, which means in a week Brunson could be one. Brunson's one more 40 point game and Shay struggles a game. He could move a couple decimal points. And so I think what he has done, and you were, I got a little distracted when you were on the fly. I'm like, who else? Like Scotty Pippen came to mind as the Guinness Rodman. Yeah, there are a few guys. But even those guys, and listen, Scotty's one of the greatest players of all time, Rodman as well. They at least had size. And they weren't asked to be the best player. They carved out, like they weren't role players. But Rodman was. Rodman was. But it's to turn into, I think, a consensus top 10 player. I think we feel like the international guys are the top five right now. So he's butts up against the top five. And Becky Hammond a couple of years ago caught a lot of flak, I think, totally unfairly. When she said something that was historically flatly true. When she was like, the problem is, at his size, he just can't be the best player on a championship team. And people got mad at her. And I was like, oh, history's on her side on that. Isaiah's the only one his size to do it. And it was, Isaiah did it very differently. It steps bigger than him. And Steph obviously does it differently. He might just be proving people wrong. And I do think that this was going to be tears today. We're not going to have time for it, because we're flying to Indy. But I was going to put the Knicks at the top of the tears. I thought you might. Because it's the playoffs. They haven't lost in a month. They have won win by less than 10 points, including an overtime game. By the way, kids, that's why gambling can be tough. You had calves plus 6 and 1 half. That's worth zero. And I also just really think that they have the easier path. Is that how big of a? Not only the easier path, but they might come out of this round, rested and unscathed. And I think Spurs Thunder is going to be a long battle. Now, if the Spurs kick their butts tonight, maybe that changes it. But it does feel like it is a very real possibility, more so than any year with Mellow, honestly more so than 99 when they had that Duncan Robinson team waiting for him. This is the best chance the Knicks have to win a championship since 1994, when it looked like they were going to win a championship. Also, shout out to Leon Rose and Rick Brunson, who looked at the Mav Squad and be like, you know who we could get? My son. I'm like, yeah, let's do it. He couldn't play with Luca. And shout out to them for having the courage on Tibbs, who I think is an excellent coach. Mike Brown is doing amazing job. Mike Brown is doing amazing job. All right, more on Mike Brown later in the show, too. Great Mike Brown quotes coming up later in the show. Afternoon headline sponsored by Ram Trucks right in the air, Block. Knicks fans already looking ahead to the finals, Brew, started a We Want Wemby chant. Take a listen. We want Wemby. We want Wemby. We want Wemby. No, it's a literative. It works. Are you sure you do? Do you like this? Look, this is what I see coming. Spurs winning in six. Knicks, I've said, winning in five. I covered the last and only time they met in the finals in 1999. That went in to in five games. I think this one would be more competitive. As high as I'm on the Spurs, the Knicks beat them two out of three games in the regular season. The Spurs are certainly better, but the Knicks are also better. So I think that would be a great find. Look, I guess what I'm trying to say, the bottom line is this. There's only one way to describe the upcoming Spurs, Knicks, NBA finals. One way to describe the Spurs, Knicks, NBA finals. Get a good look. What is it? It is what, Wilds? Delicious. Delicious! What? Delicious! I can't wait to bring it on. Yeah, I'm eating it either. Doesn't work. Delicious! Bro, I'm in the hubs. You can't just say, I'm going to call this matchup delicious. I think previously you said game sevens were delicious. Spurs, Knicks. Wimby. Cat. It's just one thing. That is delicious. I mean, I get it. Dylan Harper, Jaylin Ruffin. We did the French pastry. It's just New York pizza. Everybody delicious. Can I, listen, in the world, I can't top that. My takeaway from that. That happens a lot. Yeah, I know. It's a sparkator here. And because, listen, I was at one of the only games the Spurs with Wimby lost the last two months of the year was in the garden. Again, it was my nephew's seventh birthday. So I was in attendance. I was like, man, I might get a course. Super quiet game. That's what I was going to say. I might be the curse of Wimby because when we went to see him as a rookie in the garden, he didn't do much. And there is real data that, again, it's all limited, but that of every player in the league, OG has done the best job defending him. As far, and I don't know if, again, the sample size is tiny. But my big takeaway from this was a little slap in the face to OK. A little bit. Like OK sees that people are, we move on fast. They're going to be a dynasty. They're unbeatable. They're going back to back. Shays Michael Jordan. And now it's like, well, obviously they're not winning. We want to play with them. Why is it? I mean, y'all don't see it? No, can I give you another one? They beat them five minutes ago. I know you were charging our catering budget to the editorial budget. I'm a shout out to our editorial budget. Thank you. I've been eating well because of you guys. I don't think this hits Wemby's radar yet. But he has earned. Don't antagonize me, Saddam. I think that's it. But I don't answer. No, his antennas are up. Yeah, it's like, oh, OK. I agree with you. The last time we heard it, it was we want Boston from the Sixers. Then remember Boston chanted, we want Boston. And then Sixers actually ended up winning. But Wemby is looking for Slites. He's looking for it. He's not ready to move on, but it's going in his fire. And he knows they beat him two out of three, too. So he's like, OK. Yeah, but at this moment, this is actually a compliment. Yes. He's not taking it as a compliment. But I'm saying like the fact that they're assuming the Spurs are going to win the series is a compliment to Wemby. They're Vegas underdogs, but barely. But that's what I'm saying. So maybe he won't take it that way. But literally, it is a compliment that Nick's fans are assuming when we make the finals, we'll be playing them because of him. Because he's also now, it's like I said, the announcement game. He's that guy now. He's the LeBron, the Jordan. Like he's the one we have to beat to win the Ch... That's what people feel like. He's the best guy in the league. He's the one we want. His last name also stretches with W, which helps, too. With the we want, Wemby. It just got a little relation. We want Ch... Coming up next, more on Wemby in the Thunder game, too. What are we expecting? What is this? It's delicious. Yeah, it is. It's a delicious... That's the Knicks Burst. A great scheme by you as well. Knicks Burst. Joining us now, one of the greatest soccer players in American history. 157 caps for the national team. 57 goals tied with Clint Dempsey for the most net... Yeah, in national team history. It's Landon Donovan. Landon, I didn't realize you were tied with Clint. Part of me thinks that... You know, I saw that movie, Mr. 3000 with Bernie Mac. Bernie Mac, he has 3000 hits and then he realizes that some don't count. He's one short, yeah. I'm just saying, you could get one more. Get in the call, just get one... A penalty even. Come out of retirement and just get subbed in for a penalty. Just one, it would work. Thanks for joining us. Wanted to talk about politics. We've been doing this World Cup Wednesday. We have someone on. Every Wednesday, goalkeepers on, journalists on, defensive players on. We have guys from the team on. But we haven't had a guy like you whose job and where they're known for scoring goals. Policic is in this 20 game drought now. Hasn't scored in the calendar or sent in 2026. And we've heard a lot of like, it'll go in. Don't worry about it. Don't let the pressure mount. Is that the way you're viewing this? Well, if I'm in his shoes, no. I'm very worried. And I've been through long stretches in my career where it just won't go in. And there have been many games. I watch a lot of his games where in the right spot makes the right play, the right moment. And then he just can't hit the goal for some reason or the goalie makes an amazing save. What needs to happen, guys, is between now and June 12th, we need to find some way. And I don't know what the hell it is. But for the ball to hit him somehow and go in the net one time. And I promise you, if it goes in one time, it'll be done. I played a game. I had been through like eight games in a row without scoring for the national team. And we played Cuba in, I think it was in Boston in Foxboro. And Brian McBride, my former teammate, was in on, we were on a two on zero on the goalie. And he could have scored no problem. And he rolled it across to me and I had a two yard tap in. And I ended up scoring four goals in the game. So when one hits the net, it will be totally fine. But we need that to happen before June 12th. We do. All right, so that makes these last two warm ups, if you will, or friendlies before the tournament really interesting. Because on one hand, the US had been in such poor form in its last few matches, you would think that Puccettino's number one goal would be have the team feeling good. Find a way to get some type of result against Senegal or Germany. Obviously, one excellent team in Germany and one very good team in Senegal. Should that be the priority or should the priority be more what you're discussing, which is even if tactically it puts us at a disadvantage, we need to have in that Senegal game first half of it whenever everything working towards, even if it costs us on the back end, getting Pulisic off this goalish night. That's a good question. You can't go into a game as a coach thinking we need to just get this guy a goal now. You want that to happen as part of the process, but I think what's more important is actually that in these next two games, you have either identical or very close to the same lineup for the two games that you are going to play in the first game. Because one of the knocks on this group, and it's not always their fault is they just haven't played a lot of games together with the same group. There's always been injuries, different people called in, other people called in. And so there's been no consistency in the lineup. And you guys know in all sports, having chemistry with people around you matters. Yes, there are 11 players on the field, but knowing the guy next to you and how he moves, how he runs, where he wants the ball, those things are really important. So I would put that ahead of getting Christian in goal, but Christian scoring is a very, very close second. Of course, landed back in 2002. You helped Team USA reach the quarterfinals as the best result we've ever had. Is that a realistic expectation for this year's team? I think it is. And the difference now is the tournament's been expanded. So now you have to go an extra round to get to the quarterfinals. There used to be 32 teams. Now there are 48. So it's much like the NCAA tournament when it advanced. Now, now getting to the sweet 16 is like getting to around a 32 before, right? So you have to go an extra round. But this group, I did a thing where we kind of walked through the scenarios, if they finished first, second or third in their group and what that would look like. This group of players absolutely has the capability based on who they are to get to the quarterfinals. They really do. Now, those things we talked about just a minute ago, they need to happen. But if they do and the support of the home crowd and the momentum and the energy in the country, that will all boost us. And I think we have a good chance to get that far. We've talked a lot about obviously the World Cup being here and there's a huge home field advantage. Is there any disadvantage to it? Good question. Yeah, there can be. I mean, historically, you get a boost from having a home World Cup. In 2002 in Korea, South Korea went to the semi-finals. They've never sniffed anything close to that. 0-6, Germany gets to the semi-finals and they were punching above their weight at that time for them. 2010, South Africa have a great World Cup. So historically, teams who host the tournament get some sort of lift. But I will say, if you know, knock on wood and hopefully this does not happen. But if we go down a goal early in that first game against Paraguay, you very realistically are thinking about, oh my God, what could happen if this went really wrong? And that is a challenge. But my strong suspicion is that this team, they've dealt with lots of pressure. They play at big clubs all over the world. They're going to use it as a positive. So I want to talk about the home field advantage dynamic because you mentioned the results of the host countries in your three World Cups. But it really does go back to the beginning of the tournament. It has been historically one of the largest home field advantages in all of sports is hosting the World Cup. I wonder, like when you dig into the data on other sports, what home field advantage often means, we think it's crowd noise and energy. And it's actually like, ah, you get a slightly more favorable whistle. Like that is, that's what happens in the NBA a lot is it's really, that's what it comes down to. So here's my question for you. Do you think with VAR and with the way the game is officiated now as opposed to in the past, that the impacts of a home World Cup might actually be minimized or is it really more about the energy and the crowd and the, you know, the momentum of the tournament? Yeah, it's a good question. There will be a sort of calming of that because of VAR, because the referees are all being watched all the time. And before, if you gave a dodgy penalty or something, you weren't going back to review it. So it just, it was a dodgy penalty and the team gets it and that's what happens. Now you can't do that because the whole world's going to see it if it was a bad penalty call. But what will happen is people forget this about sports. Referees are human. And you know, I was watching the Knicks cabs last night and I didn't think there were any like crazy calls or whatever, but referees are feeling the garden electric and erupting and people cheering, whatever. And as a referee, a lot of times you say, well, I don't want to, I don't want to be the one who stops that momentum. Like you're a, you, it's amazing to be a partner, right? And it doesn't mean you're going to do anything illegal or that you shouldn't do. But if there's a 50-50 call and you're like, I could blow the whistle or I could not and it's against the Knicks, you're probably not going to blow the whistle, right? And that's going to happen with the U S too. There's going to be a bunch of plays around the field where the crowd is into it. They're cheering. Nobody wants to be the human being who is giving bad calls against the home team in a world cup. That is, that is a very realistic way that referees approach these things. Landon, you've called Turkey a very underrated team. Are they the toughest competition in our group? Oh yeah. So Paraguay are a solid team, but that's a team we should be. Australia, in historically, Australia were better than they are now. They have a bunch of guys playing at much lower level than our players play at. Now it's not going to be easy. They're a competitive team. They're a very good team. They came through a really hard Asian qualifying. So they are a good team. Don't get me wrong, but it's a team we will absolutely be favored against. Turkey is a really good team. They have a very good core group of players and they've got a young player in Art Aguiler who is a star, a real superstar and has a chance to be one of the best players of the tournament. So it's not going to be easy. It's a game that really feels like a 50-50 game. We could win. They could win. It could be a draw. It really feels that. I think that one, being the deciding game, to see who ends up first in the group. Just have you for another minute, Landon. We have the roster reveals coming next week. What's on your radar? What are you looking for once we see our final roster? Yeah, I'll be there in New York calling it on FOX. So I believe it's at 3 Eastern next week on Tuesday. There are not many question marks because there have been injuries and the injuries of sort of if there were 31 guys for 26 spots, now there's maybe 28 or 29 guys for 26 spots. A couple names to keep an eye on to see if they're there. Johnny Cardoso, who plays for Athletico Madrid, he's been fantastic playing for a team that got to the semifinals of the Champions League. That is nothing to sniff at as an American, but when he's played for the U.S., he's not performed well. And so I'm really curious to see, and he's been injured and he's gone home early. I'm really curious to see if Pochettino brings him. A guy who really came on to the scene last year, Diego Luna, I think gets on the team, but he'll be one to keep an eye on. And then the other one is there are two defenders, Joe Scali and Austin trusty. Austin trusty plays for Celtic in Scotland and Joe Scali plays for Munchen Gladbach in Germany. Both good players, I don't think both make it. So if it's one or the other, it'll be really interesting to see which one ends up making. And Geo makes it? I think Geo Reina makes it. I always say, you know, you need players with a superstar quality and he has a superstar quality and as long as hello. Where have you heard that before? Right here. He's a star. We need stars, baby. Landon, thank you so much. He's a good team mate. I think he makes it. Awesome. Landon, thank you very much. Have a great World Cup. It's been a pleasure. 22 days to the World Cup on Fox. Wow. Thanks, Landon. Great job. More first things first after the break. This episode is brought to you by Expedia and Visit Scotland. Start your story in Scotland. Experience the pool of wide untamed landscapes and fresh cuisine that feels rooted in place. Discover castles steeped in legend and feel the genuine warmth from locals you meet in a place that will stay with you long after you leave. Start planning your own Scottish holiday today at Expedia.co.uk slash Visit Scotland. No Bulls on Spies about credible Spurs Thunder tonight. Wimby off a 41 point night. SGA coming off a moderately quiet 24 point night. Are you expecting a bounce back game from the Thunder? Look, there is a part of me, a sizable part of me that's thinking the Spurs are going to take a 2-0 advantage. You know they're not going to relax. Wimby's not going to relax. They're not satisfied. Well they're tired but so are the Thunder. But I picked them in 6. Obviously I think OKC is going to win some games. I will go with OKC tonight but I think to me Dearon Fox is the key. He's questionable right now. If Dearon Fox is able to play I think the Spurs will win because that will cut down the turnovers. Dearon won't be the point guard and won't have 11 turnovers. Fox doesn't turn the ball over that much. I think even if Castle is the point guard he won't have 11 turnovers. Right, he might just have 8 but that will be too many. But if Dearon doesn't play I think it's a tough spot for Castle to be in. I think the Thunder will get out and be able to run and I think they'll win. So that's where I'm at. If the Spurs win this game I will, even if I don't like it, it's not that I dislike it. But if the Spurs win this game they're winning the championship. Wow. Championship. Yeah. I mean if they go to Oklahoma City and take both of them after honestly dominating the first 44 minutes I felt of Game 1. Yeah comfortably. And the Spurs should be the more tired team. They had the longer round 2 series. They played fewer guys and played them more minutes in game 1 than OKC. If they win this game then it does, it would appear barring something happening to Wimby that nobody is slowing them down. And I don't think they need to win this game to win the series obviously. But I would be very surprised if the Spurs win this game. The Thunder, even with the comments I've made about Shay not being quite as dominant in the postseason and what, you know, Chet, whatever his issues are with Wimby, the Thunder are a great team. And historically great can be debated. In 2026 NBA they are a great team. And I just can't imagine that they're going to go down 0-2 at home. And I think the more likely outcome is that they win and cover that 7.5. That they win by 10 or 11 points. Not a blowout, not like a non-competitive game, but a game similar to what the Spurs were doing to them where they're up 4-10 throughout except there isn't the furious comeback at the end. And I also do, I am personally still curious how the every other day and now all of a sudden the 50 minutes lands at Wimby's, you know, large feet for this game in particular. Where he has not been accustomed to playing those types of minutes. None of these guys these days are really accustomed to playing every other day. All of it. I just think he might be the most impacted even though he's young and obviously in great shape just because he has so little experience with it. Are we viewing this if the Thunder lose as a fork in the road moment for the franchise? Whether they make a move for Giannis or hey we had a big plan for a, we were talking about a long term dynasty for the Thunder. All of a sudden like oh we were one championship and done. We were like all the other guys. Spurs are going to get better next year. Is this going to be a, if they lose tonight are we starting to head down the Giannis path? I think that for the, tell me if you disagree Brew. I think in order for the Thunder to do anything drastic this off season they have to lose this series in like five games. They have to get you know truly handled by San Antonio to not feel like you know what they were better than us. We'll make some you know tweaks. They have three picks in this upcoming draft. They don't have three roster spots so win or lose. I think they're going to package those picks either for one better pick or for a player. Like they're going to do some things but I don't, I think they would have to really be run off the court in this series to stray course and do the Giannis thing that we talked about or what I, I think they could lose in six and it be a decisive six. You know what I mean? Like it went six but it wasn't really that close. I think Presti is a little more careful like you're suggesting. My hope, I don't expect it to go seven. I expect the Spurs to win. My hope is that if the Spurs do win the series Presti will go get Giannis because that will make it, I mean I don't even try to be funny. That'll be delicious though. I mean just say but really if Giannis, Shay, Gwimmy's only going to get better. In fact Castle and Harper and probably Champini and Vasell are only going to get better. Like if they beat them this year, this is the year to get San Antonio. If they beat you this year. This is almost like an appetizer. Yeah, tasty, tasty. Next one. We're on the next game, the caps. Got food on the brain. Are you at Campaign's lighting of the dashboard? But not the pipeline. That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions. No boss asks for results. So we opened my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had. Impressions. Cut the bull spend. See revenue, not just reach. LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad networks. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend 200 pounds on your first campaign and get a 200 pound credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash lead. Terms and conditions apply. Live from New York, first things first, overtime today. The New York Knicks go from worst to first game win. Meanwhile, worst kind of start, whatever it works for the thing. Meanwhile, can the New York Giants go from worst to first? There you go. You know what I mean? See? I don't know. And finally, some cool stats. Thank God, you're going to have to salvage it, Danny. Danny goes from the worst part of the segments to the best part of the segment. With some cool stats. I'm ready. Kevin Wilde, it's Chris Prisard, Nick Wright, and Danny Parkins. Rough night. Really rough night. Our group chat. They tried to abandon it. Danny tried. They tried to come off. To troll us in the group chat. I did. How'd that work out? Poorly. I said that there was going to be plenty of room on the Cavs to win the East Band. There's even more now. When they were up 17. None of you responded. I gave it a thumbs down. Yeah, after the run it started happening. You didn't even let me have my moment. I don't know when I gave my thumbs down. It was like a six point game. It was like, no, it was not early. I have you muted. Yeah. This guy's big time over. Many Cavs were cruising. Start up on the group text quote, still room on the Cleveland Bandwagon. Then it fell apart. Here's a cool stat, Danny. Teams up 22 in the fourth were 594 and 1 for the last night. Here's a cool stat. I should have used that one. Here's Donovan Mitchell post game. Great. So many things I think played a factor into it. We didn't close it out. We got to clean up on film and go from there. We've had some tough ones, but it's one loss. It's not like that loss gives them two or three games, right? It's just one. So we have an opportunity to come back here in two days and still one here. We lost. We blew it. All right. Let's round for game two. Simple as that. It's the right way to handle it. Danny, what went wrong for your Cavs? A lot. Yeah. Thanks for asking. What a terrible, awful, no good, very bad loss. But I, Brew, how long have you been covering the NBA? 63 years. 30 years. 30 years. Okay. Was there, it's possible. I don't know. Was there a rule change that coaches are not allowed to use timeouts or make substitutions? Did that happen and I missed it? Not during these 30 years. I honestly believe that if I coached the fourth quarter, the Cavs would be up 1-0. I am, I honestly, I'm not saying I could have gotten the Cavs to this point. I'm not saying I know more about basketball than Kenny Atkinson, but I am absolutely saying that if you would have switched us, he is now in the couch in my basement for the fourth quarter and I am on the sideline. I believe the Cavs are up 1-0 in the series. But all he did was he trusted the Big Four. Yeah, I was going to say, well, how could you not? I just only think I would say about that is one of those members of the Big Four said the lights were so bright. Well, the lights get bright. I think like you said Atkinson froze. Yeah. These coaches, no X's and no's, sometimes they freeze. Okay. Sometimes they freeze and I think that is what happened because what happened down the stretch was they targeted James Harden. Right? Everybody knows that. So you have two options. You can take James Harden out or you could call a timeout and try to settle things. Let's see how Kenny Atkinson addressed the idea. We can do the calling of the timeout. Maybe you call one when you're up 17 points, 20 points, whatever it is. All right, it's coming. And if you considered using a timeout, I like to hold my timeouts. I didn't want to have one timeout at the end of the game, one or two point game. I tried to hold them. At the 530 mark of the fourth quarter, it was a 12 point game and he had four timeouts. Yeah, you only can keep two. You can only keep two. He had four when Brunson had cut it to 12. On the idea of subbing James Harden out of the game instead of just allowing switch after switch after switch, Kenny Atkinson, not inconsiderate. He's been one of our best defenders in these playoffs. I trust him. Smart, great hands. Didn't even think about that. He was probably, you know why? He probably watched his first things first overtime. Yeah. Okay. I just been hearing about Jay Park and about how, thank God, there is Garland's not there. Right, because that was one of the things. Garland can't defeat. We got Harden. Yeah. He's a big Garland. Aged poorly because James Harden is a turnstile there. I will say this though. Do you agree with me? I don't know if Nick and Wiles agree with me. And Harden is not a good defender by any stretch. But these plays, I mean, he, it wasn't like Brunson was just wide over. Those are tough shots. I thought he actually defended him pretty well on an island with one of the most craftiest point guards in the league. It didn't matter. It didn't matter because it didn't work. I'm just saying. If every time you're opponent, no, I'm getting him out of here. Every time they are running you into the action because they want to switch you on to them, maybe don't play right into their hands. But Dean Wade's still on the team. Another one of your favorite Devlin acquisitions you loved. Well, Wade was on him for one. When Danny picked Keon Ellis, when Ellis was still on the team. But they put Wade on him and they just switched him off. You know, Bob tried to fight over better. You don't have to switch. Right. You're, you're, you're allowed in the next time. You're allowed to fight over. I think, Brut mentioned earlier, Donovan when ice cold at the end or went non-existent at the end. Harden, I, I, I can't even, James Harden just did what he does. Like about one in every four playoff games of his career is going to have a cartoonishly bad game. And at this point in his career, he can only be expected to be really good about once a week. And that's, that's where, so that part, I, I don't want to say you can deal with it. Just baked into the equation. I do think Atkinson froze, but I think here is the bigger point that I am, that I want to make. I, while Donovan might have said the right things, I disagree wholeheartedly with what he said. They are finished. That is a season ending loss. And it somehow took 40 minutes at MSG to erase all the great vibes of finally got over the round two hump, you know, seeing proof of concept, winning a game seven. I, Danny, I don't, I think the calves, you were talking a couple weeks ago, understandably about how the Knicks put so many eggs in the basket of this season. And if they don't get over the hump, what does it mean? I think that turnabout is now, I think this is the type of loss that you just can't bring everyone back. You can't just say, we'll run it back with the big four next year. I don't know if that means it opens the door wider for LeBron to come. I don't know if it means they try. That wouldn't have happened with LeBron. No, of course not. No way would not have. Or Kauai Leonard, or again, me. I was coaching. That was insane. Completely insane. Up 20 with less than eight minutes left. I rammed. We can show the graphic. Teams just don't lose. They I think they were five, six, 88, one going into last night. And so it is collective. It's everyone's involved in the Knicks one and took it. But because the next thing we're talking about is going to be the Knicks, right? Okay, so before we move off the calves, I do have an important question. Danny, do you still believe the calves are going to win the Eastern Conference? No. Wow! It's one of the worst losses I've ever seen. It's one of the worst losses I've ever seen. I'm sorry. I'm rooted for it. I have the bets on it. I will still crow if they do. That is one of the worst losses I've ever seen. And I didn't know that the coach didn't know that timeouts were allowed. Well, I didn't know. That you say, I got to bake that information in. I didn't have that one in my calculus. Call a timeout. You almost got to Memorial Day. Call it. You almost got to. So not only are you bailing on the calves who you've been riding for three, four months. But you also now are co-signing the team that you have mocked and ridiculed for a month. That's what we're about to do. A double whammy. Double whammy. I'm not happy about it. You know what, Drew, you know what that is? Oh, the Trimers Christians. And the bylaws say if the calves somehow, which they won't, win this series, you can't crow. Oh, I'm crowing. They're a hometown. I'm crowing. He doesn't think it, but there's still his pick. Yeah, exactly. Are they? He just said no. That's in the OT bylaws. He just switched to the Knicks. No, not a Knicks. No, I did not. Well, if they're not going to win, who's going to win? The calves are going to lose. That's what I think. This game felt both unprecedented and with precedent. This is the fourth 20-point comeback for the Knicks in the last two post-seasons. Here's Jalen Brunson. Key fighting, key chipping away. We're not going to get it back in one position. Well, it's important that he's sticking together. No matter how that game finished, habits translate. So they get transferred to the next game. So just finishing the game strong regardless of whatever is going on, making sure we have the right habits. We're doing what we were just doing. We're not just giving up. We don't want to give up ever. So just having faith in each other. What did the Knicks prove to you? Parkins? I feel like they're lucky to play the calves. I know. They've been on a great run. That was clearly, they had rust and the calves had carried over the good vibes of winning that last series. So that was the game that the calves needed to steal. And I think the calves were wearing down as that game went on from the fatigue of back to back game sevens. So I think the Knicks are going to be a great game. So I think the Knicks are going to blow the calves out in game two and win the East and I'm going to be wrong. They proved that they were good enough to win this Eastern Conference. I don't think they can win the championship. I think they would lose in a gentleman's sweep to either Western Conference team, but they came into the year based on their actions. Forget the owner's words, even though he said, I expect us to be in the finals, based on actions, getting to the conference finals last year wasn't enough. They fired the grudge. I think they're now going to make the finals. So they proved that the season was a success and that firing Tibbs and hiring Mike Brown was worth it and hats off to them. It's not over yet, but I do think that they are going to mission accomplish this season. You know, it doesn't feel quite as good as I thought it would. I totally agree. They should have lost that game. They should have lost that game. There's an amount at some begrudging as it may be. You've got to give the Knicks their, the flip side to the cabs blowing it is Jalen Brunson and the Knicks took it. And they now have won nine playoff games this year, eight by double digits, including last night when they won by double digits in overtime. They haven't lost a game in nearly a month. They have this unbelievable run. They're coming back from 20 points down is not rare. And this could have been a cool stat. I'm glad you lent it out to me. Go ahead, buddy. The Knicks last two post seasons have a winning record. I didn't know that. Four and three. Winning record. When down 20, the rest of the NBA's four and 67. And so, and by the way, it's not like that's happening against around one opponent's who are two against Boston. One was against the Pacers and one was last night. And so I do think there is an even and you throwing in there that I listen, they will be heavy underdogs against either team that comes out of the West. But I think I think it is still selling them short to not give them a shot in that series, particularly if the Western Conference Finals is as long and competitive as I think you believe it's going to be. And I do think there is something to be said for a team that truly believes we'll find a way like and the Knicks have that going for them in space. Well, look, as you guys said, it doesn't feel as good as you thought it might. I got to stand up for the cast. Now I do. I clearly picked the Knicks. I didn't even pick the calf to be in this series, but I clearly picked the Knicks. The Knicks are going to win this series. I'm just saying, I'm just saying like Danny, like I agree. I think the loss was backbreaking. I'd rather get they had gotten blown out from the get go. And then you could say to yourself, we obviously like Philly said, yeah, retired, had an emotional let down. They were rested. We'll get them in game too. What I will say though, is that the calves have shown more fortitude this postseason than we've given them credit for. When they lost to Detroit, they're up 3-2 going home. Yeah. Detroit smacks them. They could have easily crumbled. They had not won a role game in the playoffs yet. And they go or they have one to one. They're one game five. Yeah. They go to Detroit and win game seven in breakaway fashion. So I do think they have a little more mental toughness than we think. Look, again, I think the Knicks are going to win the series, but I'm just saying like just a little. I just I don't want to see my hometown go out like this. Now, why was it you break this after the show? So it wouldn't work. I bet you it still works. Again, you're rooting for the next. I'm just saying the way Danny just jumped ship like a. Are you going to test it? I think now editorially it would work if Danny. You know what? That's a good idea. Remember it's at the Polarist. It is working. Oh, no. It's a bad metaphor for Kenny. Let me see if it works. Go ahead. You guys ready? Let's see. Okay. Here we go. So there you go, Parker. Okay. I like this. You didn't mean you're their fan. Oh, but you didn't get the sad Trump phone. Oh, he did. I think he did. Oh, I missed there. Oh, I mean, I don't know how you come back. I have good news for you, Danny. What's that? It's time now for some cool stats. A lot of people are looking around saying stats can't be cool. Oh, that's wrong. You've never heard of stats delivered in a leather jacket leather gloves with chains on them. Suitcase with a light bulb in it and an electric guitar sting. Well, you're about to. Time for three cool stats. Are these all on? They're all on the NBA Wilds. It's basketball season. Heck yeah, dude. You know what else is cool? What else is cool? Where's my second glove? You can do it with a glove case. I can. Okay. Well, you know what else is cool? What? One man shows. Oh, that is cool. They are cool. There's a guy in the subway who does that. Yeah. But Jalen Brunson, they're cool, but a little skeptical that you can win a title this way. You can beat Cleveland, but he scored over 33% of his team's points and had over 30% of his team's assists. In playoff wins last three years, he's done it five times. Rest of the NBA, nine times. Luca and Jokic have done it a couple of times. It is mesmerizing to watch. He is one of the best fourth quarter players of his era. If he was merely good and not great in that spot, did they have a second option? Did they have a changeup? I find this to be a, it's a great way to sell jerseys, to be a fan and all of that sort of things. But I have serious skepticism that you can beat truly great teams to a title being that reliant on one player to generate that much of your offense. I don't know that I, I agreed with you at the beginning of the playoffs, but I think and maybe last night it was less so. But I think Kat being the legit distributor and the way, you know, they still have the rest of their starters all scoring what 13 plus Brunson just went crazy at the end. Right. So I think they, Mike Brown has adjusted somewhat to where that'll be, I think less of an issue. Yeah, I agree. Look, Ananobi had what nine points in the overtime. Yup. And he was clearly right. And he got going, though, as the game, like later in the game, you could see he kind of got back to himself. Whereas early on, I think he was hesitant. So assuming the rest of this series, he kind of gets back to the way he was playing before the injury. Yeah, they got other scores. There's no question. All right. So you got that though. Thank you very much. But you know what else is cool? What? Getting back on the horse. Oh, that's true. When you fall, you gotta get back. I've actually never believed in that. Oh, yeah. You ever fall? You suffer a terrible horse fall? No. I think I'd be done. No, you shouldn't be. I think I'd be done. Well, that's a wrong. It's cool to get back on the horse, kids. We need it horses. Good point, bro. You had no choice. You didn't have the car. That, you know what? Yeah, otherwise you're walking. Yeah. Guys. Deep in the prairies. You're missing the points. Sorry. You guys asked, are the Spurs just a bad matchup for SGA? Yeah. No such thing. SGA, he's struggled in all of his game ones. Game one, left side of the column. 22 points per game, 35% from the floor, a paltry 17% from three. How does he do the rest of the series? Well, he gets right back to exactly what his regular season average. 32 a game on 55% shooting and nearly 40% from three. The Spurs are not a bad matchup. They'll have 30 points or more tonight on 50% shooting. They might not win. When we might go crazy, chat might struggle. SGA is going to be just fine. They might not win. They might not win. You have no faith in your opponent. They're at home with a seven out of seven. They play absolute must win. I agree with it. I agree with it. I thought they were inevitable. I agree with it. They might not win. They might not win. Your two teams lost in over time. You guys know where that spurs works. Yeah. I got to tell you something. I'm familiar with that sports work. I'm starting to wonder where you are. We used to have a saying on this show. What's that? Pick and take. Pick and take. But here's the more important piece. You can't all year long say a team's inevitable. And then they lose. And then they lose in double overtime. Thanks to a 32 footer. And now you're like, listen, they might get swept. I didn't say that. You think they might get swept. A sweep is on the board. But they lose tonight. That's how it works. The only way you can get swept is if you win the first two. But don't you agree a sweep is on the table. The thunder are going to win. There you go. That's what we wanted here. Sorry. I can't be honest in my analysis. That is a great stat. I did actually like that. That is impressive. I agree. All of his poses. I don't agree with your premise. Because I do think they are a tough matchup. It wasn't even a take. That's the problem. It's a wedding post. And you're the greatest couple I've ever seen. Now you might get divorced. You might get divorced. What? I can't say it. Look at the stats. Half the marriage. Half the marriage. Look at the stats. Half the marriage. Half the marriage. What happened? Did you have financial insecurity? No. Sorry, Danny. Cool stats now. You know what else is cool? I don't even care if you do. Youth. Youth is wasted on the young. But here's the thing. I think it's going to catch up to the spurs. Look at the minutes the spurs have played. They're starters in particular. 239 minutes. Total starter minutes in game one. Most by any team in a playoff game since 2021. The thunderstarters, meanwhile, just 163 minutes. They've also played over 400 fewer minutes over the course of these playoffs than the spurs. Games every other day, when being on prescender amount of minutes. I do think the depth of the thunder and the relative freshness of the thunder compared to the spurs because of who plays and how deep they are in these playoffs is going to matter for the thunder. Go ahead and make fun of that. No, I'm not going to make fun of you. I actually think that that stat right there is why I'm a Knicks guy now. Because I think that the bruise right and the spurs are just a bad matchup for the thunder and the spurs. Because I don't know that I would like the Knicks chances against the thunder in a series, but I've seen the Knicks do well against San Antonio again, limited sample. And I think there could be an element of where youth could show up is feeling like making the finals is the final. Is the finish line, which we've seen happen before. I don't think Wemby will. Wemby just heard that. Wemby's not the only one. What did you say? No, Wemby's not the only player that matters. Like he could be locked in. They believe in him though. They don't follow his lead. No, that's fair. But yeah, I mean I also, Danny, am worried about the spurs being a little lethargic tonight. But I was worried about it for Wemby going into the first overtime and then he had nine points and had a 30 footer in second. Yeah, look, I think that I give the Knicks a much better chance in the finals against the spurs than Danny. Now I'm picking the spurs obviously, but they kind of scare me a little more than the thunder. Wow. The Knicks. They've beaten them five out of six times. I mean, what more evidence do we need? That is straight up disrespectful. It's not a cool time, but by the basic stab at a risk. They're the champs with the MVP. They're one in five against the spurs. Are the giants going from worst to first? That's next on First In First. I referenced this game earlier. Overtime. That was the giants. I give great running toasts. That's five out of ten. Welcome back to the OT. Super Bowl champion, my pal Greg Jennings out here with me. Let's go to Kansas City. Things are not looking great for Rishi Rice. The governor was reported that he's ordered to serve a 30 day jail sentence for violating his probation. We also learned that Rice underwent a cleanup surgery on his right knee one week before that. Now, Rice will be unable to do the rehab expected of him while in jail, and he also will miss the OTAs and minicamp. That is quite a read, Greg. A lot of things to react to there. How do you think the chief should react to this latest development? Knowing that Patrick Mahomes obviously is rehabbing and trying to make it back for week one, you would think everybody would be in lockstep to try to do their best to execute their role in being prepared for when they get their guy back. That guy being Patrick Mahomes. With this, it's like, okay, Rishi, this is the third year of something. We understand this is related to last year, but still this is something. And so if you're the chiefs and you're Brett Beach, you have to consider something that we all were, I'm sure they would have been looking for another receiver at some point anyway, but you truly have to consider, is this guy going to be someone we're going to give a long-term deal to? Moving forward. Because can we trust who he is when he's outside of this building? Well, that's next year's problem though, right? Based on how he plays this year on the field and then the contractual stuff, and do you want to sign him to a $80 million guaranteed deal or something like that? But when you look through this news story and it's like, alright, 30 days in jail, violating probation, tested positive for weed, there was street racing, there was another auto incident, there's an upcoming lawsuit with allegations of domestic violence. The point is, you can't trust the guy. You can't. So forget, but forget the contract. Who knows what's next? And it's why I advocated at draft time that wide receiver was as big of a need as it was. It was because I didn't think you could trust this guy to be dependable. The injury can happen to anybody, obviously, but there's just now enough things where you're going to go out and have to make a move from a position of desperation. And maybe Stefan Diggs, maybe you blow away the Patriots offer and you steal AJ Brown from them. I know that's the Nick world that he would love it for the show, for him and Wiles and all that. But I don't know how you go into the year saying, we're counting on Rashi Rice. I don't know how you do it. Yeah, so the Stefan Diggs thing, I mean, he comes with his issues, but obviously as a pro, he's been great this year and obviously in New England. The AJ Brown thing is tough because that's just not what they do. I could see them supplementing this with going after a guy like Debo Samuel, that you can really maximize who he was with the 49ers, giving the ball in the backfield. Yeah, not a true number one receiver type. Not a true number one. You're still stuck in that mode of we don't have a true number one, but at least you know he brings a level of professionalism. He's going to perform if we can get him the ball. And we know Andy Reed, whoever he has on that offensive side of the ball, he's going to be able to put them in advantageous situations. So I look at that. Obviously they're going to kick down the can of Tyreek Hill. All the options are going to be on the board. Rashi Rice though, he's put himself, I just think of long term, because this is a guy that you just concerned about, but at the same time it's like how much of a priority is your profession and what you do as a, as a football player. Do you take it serious because to know that you're on probation, five year probation, to know all these things and still to violate your parole. Look, I get it. You want to smoke, totally understand that. But once you have put yourself in a position to where you, if you are to do this, your career is at risk. The team is now at risk. You just simply can't do it. Right. Let me listen. I'm the last person to judge someone for smoking marijuana where it's illegal in a ton of places. But if it's against the rules in your workplace and you are being tested because you broke a more serious law, it's not the same for you as it is for everybody else. And you have no one to blame for that other than himself. And he is a great talent. Like if you can remove all of those off the field issues that we just went through and just say when he's on the field with Patrick Holmes, it's great to watch. He can get targeted 10 plus times a game. They can move them all over the field. He's a red zone threat. He's a matchup problem. He blocks. He is a very talented football player. And I've covered Andy Reid. I've been in Kansas City and Andy Reid, anyone knows his history. Like he will look past a lot of off field transgressions for a player who delivers on the field and he likes to give guys second and third chances. So I have no doubt that his talent will welcome him back into the fold in Kansas City. It's just you will be waiting for that news alert on your phone for the next thing and you can speak to it better than I can. Football coaches want dependability. Not just that you're going to be where you're supposed to be on the route that you run but that you're going to be available to the team all year long. It's that part. It's the part of a guy walking out of the building and knowing that, man, I don't know if I can trust him. That's the issue. We know who he is when he's in the building, when he's on the field. It's great. His production. He passes with flying colors, but it's the part that when we say, okay, guys, see you back next week or see you back in OTA. Do we know that you are going to be the consummate pro or move with a level of integrity to where you're not jeopardizing not just the team but yourself. And that's what's a little disappointing. The consistent something coming up every single time we look at the Chiefs and Rishi Rice. Let's stay here in New York where the Giants held their annual town hall on Monday. Their new head coach, John Harbaugh, got to answer questions for the audience. Always an interesting exercise. One of the questions he got asked was about his confidence level going up against the rest of the NFC East. And if you're a Giants fan, you've got to be honest, this one might pump you up a little bit. What's your biggest confidence? Mom, be nice and politically correct. I could care less about what's happened last year or the year before that or 10 years before. But I don't give a f***** about any of that. All I care about is tomorrow's practice. Because if tomorrow's practice is the way it's supposed to be, that would be one more step in the direction of being a good enough football team to kick the Cowboys. What a pep rally. It's not Predictions Week, so this is pencil instead of pen. But the number of people who have our talking head type of jobs that are going to pick the Giants to be the team that goes from worst to first, it's going to be 30%, 40% because it's such a fun story. New York market, Jackson Dart, getting the league neighbors back, all the talent on defense, John Harbaugh, media friendly guy. They are going to be a very popular pick and what I would say is they can do it. But the other three teams in the division, all of them also realistically believe they can win the division too. I think you can make a case for all four teams. Yeah, this is why I would say that I wouldn't buy that they're going to do it. It would be something that I would be definitely entertaining. Like, man, the Giants could to your point. Like, could they do it? Yeah, I wouldn't buy it though simply because when I look at this team and where they were last year, like they were two and four in the division, obviously the division was up for grabs to them in terms of who was going to get second or third or whatever. The Cowboys have improved drastically. You look at the commanders, they're getting their quarterback back. They'll make a step in the right direction. And then the team that's been just there in the Eagles, I don't think there's anybody that believes that that team is going to fall to their right. It's going to falter and fall anywhere past second in the division. They certainly have the highest floor. They just have the highest floor. And so with that being said, this is going to be what step and how large of a step and how broad of a step does Jackson Dart take? They're probably a year away, right? Like, most quarterbacks take a real leap when they're with the same system for two years. So that would be because he's had coaching turnover. So that would be year three for Jackson Dart. But he's talented, man. And they upgraded it a lot of places is what I would say. They did. Experience at quarterback, getting a true number one receiver back, two top 10 picks, head coach. That's just a lot of places for a team to upgrade in one year that I am not going to say right now that they can't win the division. Not picking it. They don't deserve to be the favorite. But if Jackson darts the real deal, it takes that step like you're talking about, they can be a double digit win team this year. Yeah, it'll be interesting to watch this team play no matter who they're playing, what week they're playing. They're going to be exciting watch because of Jackson Dart, too. Oh, yeah, he's a wildly exciting player. But coming up, we're going to welcome in Rachel Nichols and whether or not Jalen Brunson after the heroics last night can bring the next their first championship since the early 70s. It's next on the OT. Thanks for hanging out with us on the OT. Let's talk some more hoops. Last night, another epic conference finals game one. This time it was Cavs and Nicks. 22 point comeback. No big deal led by Jalen Brunson. And of course, the immediate question becomes how far can they take this on? So joining me now, Fox Sports NBA analyst, Rachel Nichols. I had been a skeptic of this next team, Rachel. I fully admit it and they are proving me wrong every step of the way. How far can Brunson and the Nicks take this thing? I expect them to take it to the NBA finals. I do not expect them to be either of the Western Conference teams. They're just such a different bag than playing the Cavaliers or anyone else that the Nicks have played this postseason. Whoever comes out of the West is going to be so much more of a talent on the floor than the Nicks have and just more cohesive in parts that work together. That's not a knock on the Nicks. I would say that the other 28 teams in the league who are not the Spurs, who are not the Thunder, aren't equipped to play against them right now in a seven game series. Now we never know what's going to happen and that's where legends are made. But I just think that the Nicks at this point and maybe for the next few years the stopping point would be the NBA finals. But that's great if you're a Nicks fan compared to where you've been. Yeah, I agree with you. Last year the Indiana Pacers have rewired my brain a little bit though for this sort of thing. I have to be open to the possibility that Jalen Brunson can go Tyrese Halliburton, that crazy things can happen. We saw the Nicks go really cold last night. Teams are talented. The three-point shot has increased variance, all of those things. But it does feel like the best teams are out West. But the thing for the Nicks that's kind of amazing is their owner fired tibs last year for making it to Game 6 of the conference finals and then went on the radio and said finals are bust. Well now they're going to make the finals assuming nothing crazy with Cleveland. So of course the year is a success for the Nicks even if they make the finals and don't win the whole thing. Yeah, and look, we don't know if they're going to advance to the finals, but they are my pick to advance to the finals. And it's interesting, Dolan kind of even up the ante and I think February he gave a pretty rare radio interview and he said he expected them to win the title this year. Again, I just don't think that's realistic when you are playing against either a Thunder or Spurs team right now. But getting to the finals, he's on record having said that too. So I think Mike Brown can look him in the eye and say, hey, I did what you said at least one of the times. Right, yeah, it's who can hold an owner accountable to everything that they say, right? It's always going to be a moving goal post. But what's impressed me too is like, listen, Jalen Brunson is a one man show at times. And we put this stat together because I don't find this style of basketball to be terribly sustainable. Scoring a 30 year team's points and having basically a 30 year team's assists in a win. He's done it five times. The rest of the NBA has done it nine times total over the last three playoffs. So I think they kind of, hey, it's the fourth quarter. Let's turn to Brunson. They keep calling it the Brunson burner. Can he turn it on? I think that's a tough way to win four of seven against a great defensive team. The flip side of that coin is if you were going to ask any player in the league to do it, it would be Jalen Brunson. Yeah, absolutely. He is the most clutch player in the league right now. I know he didn't win the award this year, but he is overall for the seasons he's been in, the most clutch player. And being clutch doesn't mean just hitting the basket at the last second. It means everything that is needed to get your team on a comeback win and he's the guy to do it. It's so interesting too that last night Mike Brown said, oh, the strategy for Jalen Brunson going at James Harden. We decided since they were doubling Jalen and going at Jalen, we would just start going at Harden. And it worked. I mean, it's crazy if you go through that run, the last part of the fourth quarter and overtime, Harden being targeted by Brunson. Brunson was seven of eight against him. You can't be seven of eight. That's a bad percentage. Kenny Atkinson just found out that you can make adjustments though. That's going to be big for him going forward. It is allowed. Who knew? Well, let's go to Oklahoma City and talk Game 2 off of an amazing historic Game 1. Spurs, of course, took it. Game 1 lived up to the hype. Oklahoma City is a big favorite, but they are the defending champs. There's reason to believe they will bounce back. At least that's what the gambling market says. Do you, Rachel, do you think the thunder bounced back? Yeah, I mean, look, the game in Game 1 could have gone to either team, right? It had to go to double overtime to solve which player, which team was going to win a game. So clearly it was a coin flip either way. So absolutely, I think that the thunder can come back in tonight's game. I think I actually expect them to win, but it's interesting. People keep saying, oh, well, you know, Shay is not going to have a game that bad again. I do think Shay will make his presence felt in this series, but I'm giving Victor Webnyama some credit for the way Shay played. I think all of those missed shots are because Wemby just makes shooting so difficult for offensive players. So I think that they need more from Chet Holmgren. I think Shay needs to find a way to make himself a little bit more of a presence, but I am very interested to see if Wemby is, you know, he's the best defender we may have seen. I mean, I'm really willing to say that at this point, and it's going to be interesting to see if the thunder can overcome that geometry that he changes just the way Steph Curry did when he first sort of burst into those 2015-2016 threes. If they can't over four out of seven games, I just, I don't know, man. I think that's the X factor, even if they do win tonight. Yeah, I, listen, I don't consider myself necessarily a historian, but I'm a pretty big basketball fan, and I watch a lot of it. Dreymon Green. You're a good man. Come on. I did, I did. Thank you. What a plug. Pipeline of the Bros. available now. Dreymon Green, Dennis Rodman, Hakim Elijahwan, Ben Wallace, the best defenders of my lifetime. He's clearly the best defensive player I've ever seen. No, that's the thing. It's his third year. Right, he's 22 years old. But I will say, like, so he just had the best big man game for a young guy since Hakim Elijahwan, and then Dylan Harper just had the best rookie guard game since Magic Johnson. My guess is they will be slightly worse than Magic Johnson and P. Hakim Elijahwan in game two. And if Chet is slightly better, if Shay is slightly better, if AJ Mitchell hits more than two shots, and the game still wants to double overtime, like, my guesses were due for a little negative Spurs regression and a little positive Thunder regression, and then you add in the Thunder desperation and being at home, I fully expect a bounce back. Yeah, no, I mean, you hit the nail exactly on the head. It's really the Thunder's offense that needs to step up to the plate. And as you say, a little bit better will do it. I do think it's interesting, though, if you look at the task in front of them, they have to win four of the next six games. Those are not the best odds. I mean, it's amazing what a game one win can do. And so we'll see if they're up to that task four out of the next six games. Especially given that they've lost five of six already to the Spurs this year. So the Spurs have a ton of confidence that they have the Thunder's number. So we'll get into predictions for game two tonight, specifically with Wemby and SGA. Because, hey, if we just have to throw out all the rules for Wemby, maybe he will back up 40 and 20 with another one. We'll get into it coming up on the OT with Rachel Nichols. Thanks for hanging out with us on the OT Western Conference Finals game two tonight. You might have heard Wemby was pretty good in game one, just a casual 41 points, 24 boards with three blocks and a 30 footer to tie it. SGA on the other hand, well, not great. Seven of 23 from the field and four turnovers. Rachel Nichols kind enough to hang out with us here. All right, what's more likely? Another dud from SGA or another historic game from Wemby? I think what's more likely is that Wemby has another historic night. I don't expect either of those things to happen, though. Look, Wemby is young. This team, this Spurs team is the youngest in the NBA. I don't expect them to be that effective by double overtime. And Wemby, who played into more minutes than people projected he could do in the playoffs, he played 48 and a half minutes basically. He looked fine at the end of that game. It's not like he looked tired at the end of double overtime. Exactly. So, you know, look, could he have another historic night? Absolutely. I mean, I don't think there's a limit to what this guy can do. You know, Danny, before he was drafted, I was saying, oh, this guy is going to be a top 10 player in the league. And everybody was like, that's hilarious, Rachel. And also, come on, flow your role. By the way, I said at the beginning of this season, I was wrong. I apologize. He's going to be a top five player in the league. I absolutely believe that. He's already, as we said, the best defensive player in the NBA right now in his third season. And he is coming for that MVP trophy maybe as soon as next year. So I think a historic night from him is more likely. I think we'll probably see a, you know, medium night from him and a better night from SGA. Yeah, I think that that's all correct. The SGA will not have another done. I just want to show it real quick. He's had bad game ones. It's been kind of weird in all three rounds. And then for the rest of the postseason, he is playing exactly to his regular season averages. Like the Spurs are a great defensive team. Wemby is an unbelievable defensive player. I will be floored if he's not 50% from the floor and over 30 points tonight. But we got games every other night. Rachel, thanks for hanging out. Thanks with us here on First Things First. Enjoy the games. We're back tomorrow live from the Indy 500.