CLASSIC: The Hidden History of Assassins, Chapter One: An Origin Story

Fellow conspiracy realists, we are returning with a couple of classic episodes as we're on the road and at points abroad and domestic. Guys, remember when we started looking into assassins? Yeah. When did we ever stop? I mean, it's a fascination for sure. Their creed, you know, whatever you got. Right. For real, I think anybody who ever got into a singular Assassin's Creed game or maybe the entire series, the concept of Assassins and the way they build the history throughout those games, it's fascinating. And that's one of the primary reasons you want to play the game. Like, I need to unlock more of this lore. What is this lore? I'll tell you who does a fabulous job with some modern kind of Assassin's lore is the John Wick movies with the whole high table and all of that stuff. Oh, your marker and he don't touch his dog. Yeah. We looked into it, folks. And one of our primary questions a few years back was, what's the difference between an assassination and your garden variety homicide? It's all about intent. I think that's end of episode. No, it's got a lot to do with it. And also who pays you, who is, you know, the one putting out the hit. And as we find in this episode, it goes way back, like well over a thousand years ago to where you can find, you know, at least the written down origins of an actual thing that we're going to learn about in just a moment. I guess you don't have to be paid to be someone who is doing an assassination. I believe the killer of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was acting of his own volition. Was he, though? Well, exactly. Exactly, Matt. But then, you know, the individual who shot John Lennon again. Was he, though? But, yeah, signs point to it was just somebody who kind of got a bee in their bonnet about that particular dude. But yet that was absolutely considered an assassination, if I'm not mistaken. Certainly historically referred to as such. You are not mistaken. It's also not always, as we'll see, about the money. Now, folks, we're going to join people from thousands of years ago in this classic episode. All we ask is that you join us in 2020. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023 but what if we didn't get the whole story I've just been made to fit the moment you look at the whole picture the case collapsed what if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe oh my god, I think she might be innocent listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Joe Interstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. My name is Noel. They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, Paul Mission Control Deccant. Most importantly, you are you, you are here, and that makes this Stuff They Don't Want You To Know. Today we're embarking on a two-part episode. One that travels across time and space from the ancient Middle East all the way to the modern day. Let's start this way without too much introduction. What is the difference between an assassination and a murder? Well, here are the facts. We all kind of know what an assassin is, right? Yes, at least to an extent. We know that an assassin is a murderer, right? In order to assassinate something or someone, you have to murder it or kill it, right? Whereas a typical murderer that is out there might commit homicide, which is taking the life of another human being for any number of reasons. And we have laws on the books to differentiate between those types of homicides and murders. Degrees, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There's the, and weirdly enough, just from a linguistic standpoint, the coolest sounding one, manslaughter, is actually less egregious than murder in the first degree. It's like, whoops, I hit you with my car. That's manslaughter, right? It's a little sexist, an outdated term, by the way. I just want to say. Human death. Yes. You caused human death. That's good, Matt. So it appears that assassination is a genre of homicide. And that's correct. But why is it a genre? Well, an assassin is defined by their target, their tactics, and their motivations. So it's interesting because recently, earlier this year, there was a huge hubbub in Western media about the use of a word. the word being assassination or assassin, Webster's New World College Dictionary, which NPR uses for their editorial purposes as their kind of guide for how to write reporting, they define an assassin as someone who murders a politically important or prominent person, typically by a surprise attack, usually for some sort of payment or in the service of some sort of ideological belief. And this sounds cold when we look at it this way, because that means that, let's say, someone knocks over a gas station in a robbery. They fatally shoot a cashier. That makes that criminal a murderer, but not an assassin. An assassin would be someone who fatally attacks the president of a country. unless, of course, they somehow, I'm laughing, this is ridiculous, unless, of course, they somehow accidentally kill the president, which is terrible, manslaughter, yeah. By, like, accidentally giving them coronavirus, maybe? Maybe, yeah. Maybe, yeah. I mean, that person's definitely in for a good talking to, a stiff fine, perhaps, but, you know, is that going to be considered an assassination? Well, I don't know, right? Maybe if it was premeditated, that's certainly one of the factors, But my question for you too, Ben, is like, what if, say, someone was paid to kill a prominent podcaster? At what point do you go into the realm of, like, being politically important enough to be assassinated versus just offed, you know, or have a hit put out on you? Don't worry, dude. We're off the table for assassinations. Are you sure? Yeah. Because it keeps me up nights. We cannot be assassinated. Murdered? Certainly. Okay. Right. I feel better now. Stabbed or shot. Yeah, that's interesting because to a degree, our definition of what counts as an assassination is something we arrive at retroactively, right? But if you, for instance, someone who may not be seen as prominent may be murdered and their death may set off a series of events that changes the world. And later historians will say it was an assassination for that reason. Like Archduke Franz Ferdinand, right? Yeah, well, he's already an assassination worthy victim, right? Because he's an archduke, right? Right. You see, the question gets complex. Like the most, one of the weirdest examples of this that I could think of was the story of the biblical Cain and Abel. Was Cain just a murderer or was he an assassin before the term existed? I mean, it checks the boxes. He launched a surprise attack on a politically and socially important person. And he did it because he was driven by zealous beliefs. It was his brother though, right? Wasn't there jealousy though? Because his father liked the other brother better. I think I see what you're doing. You're using this as almost like a microcosmic mini story that sort of encapsulates the larger thing. Because it was political because he was favored by his father. Therefore, it was motivated because he wanted to be the favorite son. Yeah, and the twist with that is with such a small cast of characters in that story, everybody is prominent and politically and socially important. That's really smart, Ben. I like that. And then in the end, Cain was condemned by God and forced to walk the earth like another Cain from Kung Fu. It just made me realize maybe that's where that came from. Maybe that's where it came from, yeah. Exactly, yep. Okay, so this murder versus assassination thing, it might seem like it's a game of semantics. Like it doesn't really make a big difference. Calling something an assassination versus calling it a murder definitely doesn't bring that person back from the dead. But the difference, as we'll find, is huge and it's crucial. In some cases, it has legal implications. Like earlier this year, the United States of America targeted a prominent Iranian general, Qasem Soleimani, in January. And news organizations like NPR, Fox, CNN, all the hits, they were really concerned about how they should describe this. And that's because murder has a legal implication, as does assassination. Well, it's like maybe the military jargon would be eliminating a high level target or something along those lines. But the idea of calling it assassination is a bad look, you know, PR wise. It's like that's where the semantics do matter for the optics of this. We don't assassinate people. We take out targets. Well, yeah, exactly. Because when NPR actually labeled this action and assassination, it became a big deal. and there was a lot of outcry from audience members about just, again, the semantics of it. This was not an assassination. No, you can't call it that. Don't call it that. We're the good guys. Good guys don't attack with daggers and drones in the dark. But I guarantee you that people in Soleimani's own country sure as hell considered an assassination, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's weird because this strategy, if we just objectively look at this strategy, it doesn't matter what you call it. It matters what happened. And this strategy of assassination is familiar to cultures across the planet throughout the ages. I mean, just from like from John Wilkes Booth, that's a famous U.S.-based assassin, right? He assassinated then President Abraham Lincoln. From that guy all the way back to the ancient days with people like La Custa the Poisoner. You don't have to look very far, very deep to find historical records of assassins. There's a book. I guess I'll just hold it up. We'll do a little disturbing reading rainbow here. I don't know if you guys can see this. Is that a Caravaggio on the cover? I love that image. Let's see. Is it? Yeah. I think it is. But either way, it's one of those classic. Like, it looks like the cover of a Joy Division album. It's like this person dead in the bath with their arm kind of draped over the side. That classic, I believe it's impressionist, but it's, you know, Caravaggio would be a great example. Really high definition, super moody and very kind of eerie image. I love those types of paintings. That's right. The Encyclopedia of Assassinations, available at any arcane bookstore near you. Right, by Carl Sifakis. This explores both attempted and successful assassinations throughout human history. And interestingly enough, it lists several cases such as that of Dag Hammarskjöld. What a name, by the way. Yeah, it's a cool name. It lists that case as an assassination, but that still has not been officially confirmed as such, even though the U.S. president at the time, Dag Hammarskjell was in charge of the U.N. when he died in a mysterious airplane accident. We have an old YouTube video on that. But the point is, this book is pretty old, but these cases of assassination, because of the controversy, they remain very touchy subjects for a long, long time. And so today in the first part of our series, we wanted to ask, where did this come from? Where does the concept of an assassin actually originate? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must-listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt the case of Lucy Letby we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was no voicing of any skepticism or doubt it'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong listen to Doubt the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final Rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the bachelor. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. here's where it gets crazy assassin isn't some dramatic exotic word some hack writer invented to just sort of juz up uh an otherwise depressing murder story that's right it's ip from ubisoft it's ip from ubisoft right in fact the term assassin refers to an all too real all too conspiratorial organization from ancient history. It's an honest to God secret society. Let's call it the order of assassins. Oh, my God. Wait, you're saying it's real. That's what we're saying. The order of assassins is real or was. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, a playable documentary, although there's a lot of great historical research in there. We're saying there was a real group. We don't know a ton about them. This is something that you'll always run into when you're looking at controversial institutions in ancient history. The Fortress of the Assassins, and they did have a real fortress, was conquered in 1256 CE. And when they were conquered, the the the castle was raised essentially a their library was destroyed so we have no written historical records about the assassins from the assassins themselves still we do know some things that's right between 1090 and 1275 a small nazari ismaili sect high in the mountains of persia and Syria went into the murder for hire business. The assassins were an offshoot of the Ismaili sect of Shia Islam, and it was founded by Hassan E. Sabah, who referred to his followers as, I'm going to, oh, okay, Asasiyun, A-S-A-S-I-Y-U-N with some underscore characters over the A and the U. And that means people who are faithful to the foundation of faith. And they were, they have this stronghold fortress called Alamut Castle. That was about 130 miles from what is today known as Tehran. Wow. I mean, it's just so cool to me that that's real. So the concept here of this group, they wanted to challenge the Seljuk Turks who were Sunni Muslims. So we're talking about Shia and Sunni conflicts back in, what did we say, the 1090 CE to 1275 CE. The Sunni Muslims, these Seljuk Turks, they were in control of Persia at this time when this group was organized for these purposes. And this is when the group first became known as the Hashashin, another cool word here. But today they're better known as assassins. It's a term that was given to them by the European crusaders who are rolling through and, you know, doing their thing. Those Europeans just making language work for them, you know? Yeah, just kind of a corruption of the phrase, right? But that's what you get with the living language. This group known as the Assassins, they actively and covertly murdered first Muslim, then later Christian leaders throughout the Middle East. And they murdered these folks or assassinated these folks when they were seen as a threat to this sect, to their society, to their geopolitical control. And while the term assassins applies to the whole crew, right, there was actually only a smaller inner group known as the Fida'i that engaged in actual conflict in what is sometimes euphemistically referred to as direct action. This is important. Now, we do have to say that none of us are fluent Arabic speakers, so thank you in advance for your understanding of our pronunciations. We do know that the Nazari did not have a standing army, so they relied upon these warriors, these operatives, to carry out espionage. Why fight an army when you can just kill the king or the general? Their preferred method of killing was usually going to be through the use of daggers. So that means close up to their target. No poison drop-offs, no arrows. And often they were known for being completely okay with dying or being tortured after they had committed their murder. They posed a strategic threat to Fatimid, Abyssin, and Seljuk authority alike. And for almost 300 years, we know they killed hundreds and hundreds of people, important people. That era's version of VIPs, three caliphs, ruler of Jerusalem, tons of other leaders, Muslim and Christian alike. So despite the fact that we don't have direct accounts from like Hassan himself saying, I dope these guys up and brainwash them and now we're killing everybody. We do have accounts from other people who were alive or around at the time. And let's let's see what you think of these. One of the first ones comes from a Spanish rabbi named Benjamin of Tudela. he traveled through Syria in 1167. So this is while the group was active. And Benjamin, not our Benjamin, the one we just mentioned, he told of this mysterious leader that existed named the Old Man in the Mountain. The Old Man in the Mountain? That's what he referred to him as, Old Man in the Mountain. This Old Man in the Mountain, this Yoda-like figure, although he did not have that reference, who led a sect of warriors who dwelled in hidden mountain fortresses. More of a Palpatine, I think. Yeah, it is more of a Palpatine. And it's, gosh, I can't remember which episode. I think we did one on military and drugs where we talked about the mountain fortresses in several parts of the region there and how important they were and then how we saw that reflected in the conflicts that the U.S. then went into in places around Afghanistan and out in the Middle East. And these mountain fortresses that were so difficult to, if you were an invading force or someone who's trying to attack, so difficult to penetrate. But that's an interesting thing, right? There's an old man in a mountain and he is controlling or leading a bunch of these warriors that live there. And there's also information, quite a bit more actually, that comes from Syrian Sunni chroniclers. And, you know, it's there, it exists, which is very nice, but unfortunately quite a bit of this information is biased. Again, you have to remember that there was conflict there between the Shia and the Sunni Muslims and because of that conflict, the Syrian Sunni population really did hate or at least some of these prominent writers seem to show anger and hatred in the writing or at least writing about them from an enemy's perspective because they were the enemies and they probably did hate them because they did some heinous things. Yeah, I mean, they had every reason to hate the assassins. But it just stinks that the historical record then itself becomes this version of it rather than, well, let's actually look at it as equal parts in some way, or at least in some form. And the crusaders were aware of these chronicles from the Syrian Sunni population. they said, look, this is close enough to the truth. Someone's out here killing everybody. So let's just run hog wild with it. You know, who has time to fact check? That's a problem we have in the modern day. So as a result, we have to treat these stories with skepticism. It's kind of like propaganda you would see against the pope by their successors or against royalty. Or against any army, you know. Yeah. So, the propaganda that's produced is intense. Yeah, they're going to say, like, you can read some of these things and translations thereof and say, okay, this looks like maybe it was designed to entertain an audience or just to character assassinate the assassins themselves. And they talked about how powerful, how competent these operatives were, but then they also made these pretty crazy claims about how they became so successful. Yeah. And in the 12th century, William II, who was a crusader and the Archbishop of Tyre, believed that this whole old man in the mountain idea was true and that he commanded this individual as many as 60,000 assassins. And he noted that they would do suicide attacks. They had no regard for their own safety in their own lives. They were seek and destroy. And if they don't make it out alive, so be it. It's all about the target and getting the job done. Of this old man in the mountain figure, William II wrote this, quote, it is their custom to install their masters and choose their chief, not by hereditary right, but solely by virtue of merit. What a novel idea, by the way, disdaining any other title of dignity. They call him the elder. the bond of submission and obedience that binds this people to their chief is so strong there's no task so arduous difficult or dangerous that any one of them would not undertake to perform it with the greatest zeal and you know speaking back to the propaganda and the war of words and trying to smear folks to be taken with a grain of salt but there was there were reports about this group that they, God forbid, ate pork and married their sisters. Which were, to unpack that quotation from William II, he's not saying meritocracy is a good thing. He's pointing it out as a criticism. He's implying they're barbaric because they respect people's talents over their genetic lottery or whatever. Which is so counterintuitive and fascinating and like a product of the time. You know what I mean? What? They don't have a royal, pure bloodline, a lineage, descending directly to God? You know? For shame. It's like they hire people based on their skills. They promote them based on their skills. They eat pork, and they're sleeping with their siblings. Get them out of here! All three of those things were just terrible. And somehow the people who join up are willing to do things for their leaders. Willing to. Right, right. Right. It's almost like the chance of being promoted makes people better at their jobs. That's a very that's please don't make that the main takeaway from today's episode. But yeah, you're right. The fact is that this guy noticed. These people were not the type of individuals to turn away from a task, even if it meant that they would be killed and completing it or captured and tortured afterwards. In some ways, this was seen as noble in this community. So these rumors are around. It's kind of an urban legend. It's kind of a conspiracy theory. And there's proof in terms of dead bodies of important people that keep showing up at weird times in history. It gets really popular and mischaracterized in Western Europe thanks to one of the best-selling books of the medieval era, The Travels of Marco Polo. This book alone spreads so many claims about the order, and if we read it through the lens of the modern day, it sounds like Marco is telling us the assassins are a cult. there's this idea that the elder, the old man in the mountain, starting with Hassan himself, has been brainwashing his followers, has been doping them with some sort of substance. Again, we don't know the exact nature of that substance, but hashisham, assassins, hashish, the rumor is, or at least what he says in the book, is that the old man of the mountain is giving his followers a drugged potion during their training, right? And this is breaking down the usual human moral qualms with things like assassination. And then before he sets them off on an assassination mission, he gives them some version of this again. So it has a lot in common, if you think about it, with reports of like Manchurian candidates, candidates, people who are through systematic psychological tactics and through the ingestion of substance, they're turned into zombies, you know. Or, you know, here's the deal. Is it are we saying we think at least according to that book, we think it might be hashish? Is that and that is cannabis and weed, right? Mm hmm. it's basically like it's the stuff that's the sticky crystal stuff that sticks to the outside of cannabis when it's cured, you can shake it off and you essentially make it into like you press it and make it into a resinous kind of material that is able to be smoked, so I've heard. But we're saying we're saying the travels of Marco Polo is saying that that's the substance that made them in some way become a Manchurian candidate. Like, it went out of their minds a bit. It's like reefer madness. And then... Huh. It's interesting, though, because... So Hashishim, Hashishim is the nickname for the sect that was used by a lot of its enemies or in casual conversation about this group. And it was believed to have derived from the Arabic word Hashish. So naturally, you can see how that didn't come directly from Marco Polo's book. That was already around. But when Marco Polo mentioned this drugged potion, it cemented the image of this order in the zeitgeist of the time. So they were like, these are shadowy, drug-crazed fanatics. They may have powers that the average undrugged human being doesn't have. You know what I mean? And to a degree, psychologically, that might be accurate. But you could say that about any number of groups who institute systemized suicide attacks. Wow. Hey, man, look, we're all the same, but I just got to assassinate you, bro. I'm sorry. Yeah. Here, hit this first. It'll make you way more chill. Exactly. Way more crazed and assassinate. So if this is true, think about it. If this is true, it boggles the mind. How is this not brought up more often, especially during these moral panics? I love that you mentioned reefer madness, Noel, because if again, if this is true, it's one of the best PSAs against the use of cannabis in human history, right? Like smoke a joint and then go kill the king. Turn into a mindless murder machine. Right, right. And I love that that rhymes. Thank you. There's a reason, I guess, there's one reason that this didn't show up in a lot of PSAs. Well, first, most people wouldn't be familiar with this story. But secondly it turns out that Marco Polo is the primary propagator for this hash claim If you look at the sources from the Islamic world even among the assassins enemies even among the Seljuks and the Syrians who hated them, they don't really mention the use of hashish. So maybe a more convincing explanation for that nickname comes from the Egyptian Arabic word hashishin. And that means something totally different. It's a little silly. It means like noisy people or the troublemakers. Wasn't Marco Polo known to be a bit of a exaggerator too and possibly inventing some stuff just like out of whole cloth to make himself look like more of a badass explorer? Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's true. It's a curated version of reality. Right. But a lot of the a lot of the things he says didn't bear up to scrutiny. Still, it was the best information people had at the time. So this is why modern scholars, people like Bernard Lewis, who is a Middle Eastern historian and expert on the assassins, believes that hashishy or hashishem was a popular Syrian pejorative. It was a term of abuse. We're discrediting these people. You know, sure, they're effective killers, but they're drug addicts. And, you know, it's the devil's tobacco, it's the jazz cigarettes and the left-hand smokes that are making them such effective monsters. So you can see already that the image people have of assassins in the modern day and the image people had of assassins when they were around kind of became larger than life. They were living legends. There was a lot of disinformation about them, and we can only assume they probably used it to their credit because it's the kind of PR you can't buy. But this is just one of the misconceptions. So I propose we take a break for our sponsor, try our best not to get assassinated, and come back and explore some of those misconceptions in just a moment. What do you guys think? It sounds great. Everybody cross your fingers and hope that it's a CBD sponsor. Okay, cool. Let's go. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, This episode is a must-listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever seen. before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the bachelor. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we've returned. Misconceptions about a group of killers in ancient Persia slash Syria. This is the slightly awkward part where we defend their character. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. So a lot of medieval Europeans knew about the order, especially once the travels of Marco Polo were published. they believed that this group was specifically targeting Christians. So this is fuel to the fire for the Crusades and for other campaigns, right? Now we're fighting to protect good Christian people against this threat. Make you a cog in our holy war kind of situation. Right. But this thing was not entirely true. In fact, it turns out, and this happens all the time in the world of politics, It turns out these people who are like publicly enemies to each other behind closed doors, they would not infrequently get together and be like, hey, you know what, man? I know there's a lot of stuff going on. There's a bridge under the water. Are you guys high? Don't worry about it. Let's just let's let's work something out. Maybe we can make an alliance, you know? Well, you know, we're about to talk about something here coming up, which is another part of the misconceptions. But there are some realities that this group faced that makes me wonder if there was use of cannabis or some other drug like that, if it didn't have more to do with their situation and less to do with tactics for battle. It's a bit of a spoiler, but we'll keep going here. No, I think it's foreshadowing, Matt. So we wanted to pull one example of times that Christian forces and assassin forces got together, right? In 1251, the king of France, Louis IX, sent some invoice to meet the assassins to go and find the old man or the elder of the legends. And this meeting, they took the meeting because it suited their diplomatic needs at the time. Otherwise, it seems like the sect was, they were, yeah, they were killing people when they had to or when they wanted to, but they were largely uninterested in Christians, at least at that time. they were primarily focused on all the crazy changes happening in the Muslim world and the events that had shaped them. They were also shaping these events in turn, and that's because of their assassination tactics. Let's go to what you said, Matt, about not just the rumors of drug use, but about how these tactics came to be. It wasn't so much a matter of like religious belief or what is the moral right way to kill someone. It was necessity. It was desperation. Even if you take that 60,000 number in good faith, we have to remember only a few people in the assassin's order were actually killing folks, were actually going out on these missions. Hassan was outgunned and outnumbered the whole time wait he was outgunned outmanned outnumbered outplanned I guess yes yes he was very much so and he was also I guess everybody was outgunned at that time weren't they basically using knives probably this is like the knife age right these guys are using knives they're using daggers to kill arrows are round swords around but yeah they're they come they come out of their arms like that that's that's how they work yeah they pop out from the wrist uh yeah so he knew he knew that there was no way they could wage what we would call like conventional war of the time they didn't have the numbers so he had to resort to being more crafty and we're talking about some james bond level here guerrilla warfare espionage spying um targeted killings assassinations um there would be sleeper agents that would basically travel in disguise and you know pose as members of the community in which they were trying to infiltrate to get a better bead on their targets uh and insert themselves into these very important strategic positions so that they could you know have the upper hand right yeah i mean it it may sound familiar again like we just dropped a reference to the revolutionary war a version of a telling of the revolutionary war um but yeah whenever i think this is a commonality whenever you have a small force that needs to operate effectively wasn't hercules mulligan a spy wasn't that his deal yeah i think we're past spoilers on that too right yeah i think i think so well that's that's that's also sorry no no don't like hercules mulligan's a real guy was a spy he also got fire bars dude i mean really yeah yeah that was his first love i think that and being a taylor and then you know third america but but think about that you know we always think of sleeper agents in the context of i guess like the cold war here in the West, right? That was the worry. Deep cover, sleeper agents from the U.S. going into the USSR and vice versa. But they existed in these ancient times. These guys would say, okay, we're going to kill this person. We're going to do it in two years. So tonight I'm going to travel with this caravan and I'm going to set up shop and I'm just going to, you know, I'm just, I'm going to sell trinkets and tchotchkes for a while until the time comes that's why i break out my drugged potion break out my dagger bada bing bada boom they did not say bada bing bada boom we're pretty did they say drugs potion though because god i love that phrase that just sounds like a good good time a drugs potion i want to bring we should refer to things as potions more often right i know there's some like there are probably some craft breweries that use the phrase elixir but let's bring back potion oh remember philip seymour hoffman's character and the the paul thomas anderson movie the master um he was really taken by freddy uh joaquin phoenix's kind of unhinged like you know that character because he would make this hooch out of rocket fuel and like you know photography chemicals and and uh and this character of philip seymour hoffman's character refers to it as, give me another taste of that delectable potion. Love it. Or something along those lines. Bring back potions. That's, okay, so we've mentioned the special corps, the people who are actually doing the assassinations. They're sometimes also known as the fedayin. They were very, very effective, and they were very, very selective. The name translates to those who sacrifice themselves. They were drilled to, this is the most mind-blowing part. So they weren't just drilled to accept the possibility of death or the possibility of torture. they were taught to find and eliminate their target and then wait to be discovered and then willingly submit to torture execution. That's terrible for the individual, but imagine how amazing that is for the order. Yeah, exactly. Setting a precedent that this is what's going to happen. You know who did it, and you don't get any information out of them, and you can torture them until they die. and, oh God, how many are there? Wait, there are a lot of them like this? We'll send another one. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of assassination, as we'll see in part two of this series, is about sending a message. And that's what they were doing. So we would today consider this a kind of asymmetrical warfare. Why do you fight an entire network? Why do you attempt to go against an entire system when you can pop one link in the chain, right? You can get that individual dot at the top of the command structure, and you can create all the results you aimed to achieve. You sow discord, you make the opponent squander their resources, and you make them expect even more terrible things from you in the future. And you put them on the defensive. So, I don't know. It can play out a hundred different ways. But one example of this comes to us in 1092, just to give you an actual snapshot of how this group successfully conspired and carried out these murders. Yeah, and this example comes to us from 1092. This is when this group of assassins murdered or assassinated the the vizier Nizam al-Mulk. He was a powerful member of the Seljuk Sultanate. and the records that were available from that time, they say that Nizari disguised himself as a Sufi mystic and was able to infiltrate, get in close, close enough to stab this person and kill them. Pray with me, my son. Yeah. Yeah. It's intense. And this assassination had a real domino effect, as we've been describing. Exactly, because shortly after the murder of Nizam al-Muq, think of him like if the sultan is the president, this guy is one of the secretaries of the cabinet, kind of. So it's as if a secretary of the cabinet was murdered. People are freaking out. And then a little bit later, the sultan himself, the sultan Malik Shah, is murdered. And at this point, historians argue back and forth over whether that second murder was the assassins. But it doesn't matter because this domino effect goes into play very quickly. The Seljuks are in chaos. Who is supposed to be in charge here? Are there people wearing disguises and killing us? Like, I can't trust anyone, you know? What about that guy? How long has he been in town? Well, that guy says he grew up here, but is that true? And then the attacks continued. The assassins started killing more rulers, generals, governors, clerics, anyone who was seen in their eyes as an enemy, and they seemed to be everywhere and nowhere. You know what I mean? There's not an official uniform. It could be the mystic next to you. It could be the merchant two stalls down in the marketplace. So people got really paranoid, right? They started hiring bodyguards. Even if they thought they might not be the number one target that they wanted to also wear chain mail under their clothing Like think about these are terroristic tactics You know Ben it really this is very reminiscent to the fear that permeated the United States and I would say a lot of the Western world and probably the entire world following the September 11 attacks of 2001, where it felt like anybody could be a target. Right, like even folks that were separated from like big urban centers like in middle America really felt vulnerable in that way, where maybe there's a sense of, oh, we're away from all the big cities. We're somehow safe or not on the radar. But that whole kind of comfort level really went out the window. Yeah, and for very good reason. You know, I mean, humans back then aren't that different from humans today. We just have more toys. We're talking about the assassins in the past tense, at least this group, this origin story, because eventually they did fall. They were active and effective for the better part of three centuries, and they continued after the death of their founder. The old man in the mountain died in 1124, sometime around then, and the sect continued without him. In 1138, his successor, one Buzerg Umid, died as well. I'm laughing because we know the date of his death thanks to their big fans, the Sunni chroniclers, One Sunni chronicler described his death in the following way. He says, Brzoog Omid died crushed under the heel of perdition, so hell was heated by the fuel of his carcass. Oh, man, sick burn. Very, very visual. Literally, very, very visual. Wow, what a wonderful, wonderfully hateful way of referring to somebody. Yeah, it's very I spit on your grave style as obituaries go. But the order continued on, and that means that the murders, especially of high-ranking Sunni figures, continued. In the 1160s, leadership fell to Hassan II, Hassan II. He took the branch in a different theological direction. Now, this is really interesting. Remember, we talked about the propaganda saying, look, implying heavily, like, look, these guys aren't even real Muslims. They eat pork, they're marrying their siblings, don't fall for the hype. But Hassan, too, did something interesting. He said, you know, if you're a true believer, if you're willing to die for this cause, you are relieved. You are absolved from moral customs. Pray when you can, where you can. If you can't turn in the direction of Mecca, that's fine. you can do things that are regarded as openly sinful as well because you are ultimately in service of, wait for it, the greater good. Snap. I didn't realize it was the greater good that this whole thing was about. Okay, cool. Well, that changes everything, right? I mean, it's the greater good. It's not the regular good. Anyway, that— It's the next level good. Yes. I love that. It's the most goodest. But that's such an argument. It's such a common argument for doing terrible things. throughout history and politics and war and all it's oh it's for the greater good yeah we got to murder all these people but it's okay because you know the the greater good will benefit so don't think about this thing think about the big picture it's just it's a way of pivoting responsibility from the you know the people that are actually doing the bad the bad stuff to i don't know like it's it's interesting because the greater good too is also very very subjective right what that even means yes but why why why isn't it the greatest good the goodest shouldn't it just called the best it's for the best that people do say that too don't they it's for the best but it means something different doesn't it for the best just means well come see come saw yeah it's just that's just the way it went it was it was for the best it's just it's a lie we tell ourselves which i believe so is the greater good yeah i mean i maybe we should maybe we should think about it as We'll just make up a word here. We'll churchify a little. Maybe we should think about it as the goodosity, the speed and direction of a given good, right? Because, yes. So, you know, your mileage may vary in terms of where you, what direction you feel is good and what speed you feel is good. That's a weird one, but it is important for this episode, So this period, you know, like, hey, throw some of the rules out of the window. We can cut some corners because ultimately we have to remember we're the good guys. This is probably— But are we the goodest guys? But are we the goodest guys? What's our goodosity? But this probably influenced Marco Polo. As a matter of fact, it certainly influenced what he wrote later. And then Europeans read that. And it didn't matter. Remember, we print retractions in the back of the paper, right? It didn't matter that later the sect went back to a more strict or austere interpretation of Islam. The damage was done. And everybody who didn't like these folks, Christian and Muslim alike, was able to say, well, are they really some sort of religious warriors? They don't even bother following the rules at home, you know, which is a great argument to make. And that's part of why no one came to help in the 13th century when Mongol invaders breached the stronghold. They breached Alamut Castle in 1256, and they put an end to the Nazari, the assassins, at least. At least. That's what we believe, right? Exactly. Guys, do you have any favorite assassin sects from pop culture, from video games, from movies, TV series, books? I really like the faceless men from Game of Thrones. I think that's one of the coolest assassin sects in literature in a lot of ways. I'm wondering if you guys have any other cool references for folks to check out. For me, it's the Elder Scrolls one. Ben, remind me what that is. The Dark Brotherhood. Yeah, Dark Brotherhood. I dig that. They're great. They have the same taste in logos as us as well. Yeah, then there's, of course, the assassins and Assassin's Creed. They're more of like an anti-hero kind of vibe. And then I would say Faceless Men is great. Assassin groups. I guess you could say, you know, it's weird. Is James Bond an assassin? I mean, yeah. He does. He is. He contains multitudes. He kills with, yeah. He definitely does assassinate people for sure. Yeah. I like the Kingsman's vibe. You know what I mean? I like the gadgets and the suits. And these are all cultural artifacts or cultural descendants of this real-life group, the assassins. Because even after they were wiped out, the word assassin had passed into the common parlance in the 13th and 14th centuries. And you can trace it through fiction and entertainment all the way to the modern day. And I think – is that part of what you're getting at here, Noel? A little bit. Yeah, I mean, for sure. it's certainly something that is, has captured the imagination of, of folks that are into this sort of thing, you know, fantasy and fiction, because there is this, this sense of like, like you said, Matt, the Assassin's Creed character is almost an antihero, but at the same time you root for them, you know? So the assassins don't always have to be the bad guy. But one thing I think that's interesting about assassins that we haven't really touched on is that by nature, they're sort of a, not a moral, but like they are a tool, especially the faceless men. They don't take a stance politically. They just do whatever they're paid to do, which I think is a really interesting facet of being an assassin. It's like we talked about having a political motivation or some zealotry kind of driven ideology, but aren't assassins usually kind of just a tool of whoever's paying them and they don't really have a stance? Well, see, that's where you bring things like the assassins, that exist in John Wick, in the John Wick universe. Right. That's a good job. I love that. I love those. But yeah, you pay for a job, right? I mean, they're hit men, right? More so than political tools or something like that. I don't know. I mean, yeah. We started off the episode talking about semantics, and I think we're still hovering in this gray area of like, what is an assassin? What is a hit man? We know what a murderer is. We know what manslaughter is or human murder. What would you call it? It's human death, but it's defined. I mean, it is pretty clearly defined, at least in the common usage and English usage as a political killing, right? I mean, or killing of importance. In the modern day, you know, but think about like it's weird because the motivation can be spread across multiple individuals, right? I am the owner and CEO of United Kumquats Global Incorporated LLC, whatever. And I am so tired of the government that rules the land where most of my Kumquat plantations are. And so I am motivated to kill them and have them replaced with a government that's more pro-kumquat or pro-my organization. More sympathetic to the kumquat lobby. Right. And so my motivation, my motivation is financial gain and power. So I enlist the help of a, let's say, a religious sect or offshoot of secessionists in that country. And they kill the prime minister or the president for me. They may be doing it because they're getting paid. They may be doing it because they believe their religion will be better represented by a different government. So the thing is, at the end of the day, the prime minister is dead and the villains walk away happy. Yeah, and United Kumquat is victorious. I felt uncomfortable every time we said that word. I love it. Isn't that a tiny orange? Isn't that what a Kumquat is? It's like a little tiny orange. What do you even do with them? Do you just eat them with the skin on and everything? It seems like an awful lot to peel such a tiny fruit. I would imagine you would just pop it right in your mouth. it's about it's like the size of an olive yeah but it's like it's citral it looks like a orange in shape and color um i don't know i just chose it as a memorable i love it no it's a beautiful word so could we maybe say that not all hits are assassinations but all assassinations are hits perhaps that's kind of what we said at the top okay just yeah just to just to leave it with that for my own you know uh clarity i think this is so fascinating but i think it's interesting how there's that intersection because it all depends on the prominence and perhaps the end result, you know, as to whether it qualifies as an assassination. Yeah. And speaking of end results, here we are. We know that the military might of this group or the assassinatory might of this group faded over time. But it's important to note the faith itself survived and doesn't have anything to do with assassination. So we want to be very careful not to vilify this religious community. You can find Ismaili in 25 different countries today, at least. Central and South Asia, Africa, the Middle East. The reputation of the group we refer to as assassins nowadays, I think we built a pretty good case. It was founded on some exaggerations by their enemies, right? Some propaganda. But their tactics were effective. And it's strange to realize that such a small group of people could have such a profound impact on history. More importantly, it's disturbing to realize just how much influence and inspiration they gave to their imitators ever since. And that's where we end today's episode. how much of an impact do you think, fellow conspiracy realists, that the assassins had on the world in their time, and how much of that impact, if any, remains with us in the modern day? That's a great question, and I can't wait to hear what you all think. This is going to conclude this episode of Assassins. But guess what? There's another one coming. We're going to delve into more modern day assassins. We're going to get closer to the present. Are there still people out there in groups that are specifically designed and operated to commit assassinations? I bet you know the answer to that at least a little bit. We're going to tell you all about it next episode. In the meantime, write us. Tell us your favorite assassin groups or individuals. Lone Wolf Assassins from pop culture. We'd love to hear all about it. You can find us on the usual social media spots. I think our preferred place on the internet, our happy place, is the Here's Where It Gets Crazy Facebook group. You can join the conversation there. I'm sure this is going to generate some great memes and posts from you and your fellow conspiracy realists. So check that out. Here's Where It Gets Crazy on Facebook. 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The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Joe Interstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today, I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? I've just been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.