The Feminist Critique of Mad Woman

Welcome to the Swiftie and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDowell, the Swiftie. And I am Dr. Jerry Coates, the scholar still. Yes, yes, very much still the scholar. Still the scholar mostly. How are you doing? I am, I am, I'm okay. I'm curious about the fate of the world these days. Same. But yeah, I'm okay. I hope our listeners are okay. Yes. We are such an international group. Yeah. So I'm vaguely embarrassed, but it's same. It is an embarrassing time. Yeah, but stay safe, everyone. Seriously. Please. And on that subject, let's get angry today. Okay, yes. Yeah, you know, I think I called your text to you and said, Oh, this is it. Yeah, this is good. Yeah. Today we're doing Mad Woman, which is from Folklore from 2020. This is written by Taylor and Aaron, but produced by Aaron. We're going to listen to the two of them talk about this. Okay. And we learned that Aaron had this track written. So the music was all written and Taylor heard it and said, I have to write this song over this track. Okay. But we'll get to that later. Yeah, I, everybody when we were talking about what song are we doing when everybody was yelling at me about Mad Woman? I don't remember. I don't remember, but I mentioned, Oh, she talked about being mad. And I brought up my copy of Mad Woman, the attic, and I talked about how it had been highly influential in my life as a work by Gilbert and Gabbard as a work of feminist criticism. Yes. And it's been a lot of it's been questioned now and revised. And this is my new copy because my old one, the spine got all split and torn up. Signed of a good book, right? I know it really is. It's like I used the heck out of it and I had to get another copy. Yes. So that brought this one up to the top of the list for us. I do love this song. I have loved for this since the first time I heard it. I think it's so fun. Yeah. So take it away. Well, yeah, I mean, I just, you know, I like it when she gets mad. Me too. I don't know. And I don't mean mad. I mean, expressive and demonstrative, demanding both of herself and culture and things like that. Yes. Kind of kind of what the song is is about. Yeah. Okay. Mad Woman. Yes. Yes. First, get your copy of the Mad Woman, the attic and then read it. Just real quick. Go through. She does. They do a great job of taking a look at 19th century women's literature. And in particular, I think I referenced the chapter on Jane Eyre and Emily Dickinson. Yes. But, you know, they don't let. I think it's really interesting the treatment of Jane Eyre because there are two characters of Jane Eyre that they discuss a great deal. One of them is the literal mad woman in the attic. Mr. Rochester has spirited his wife off to the attic because she's gone insane. And just the notion that you would, you would trap a woman rather than treat a woman and just keep her in the attic with a, with someone to watch over her. And then, of course, there's Jane. And the character of Jane is subversive and, you know, bears interesting feminist critical analysis because she's, she's small. She's homely. I mean, admittedly not pretty, you know, and so she cuts across social norms of what the heroine, if you will, should be like. So it's, you know, it's, it's really interesting stuff. It's, it's a great launch into early feminist critical thinking. There's been a great deal more written since then, but I still find this it's a fun work. Yeah. For, for mad woman. Obviously, I had to think of it. The title itself. Are you ready for my first use of the word ambiguity? So yeah, for those of you here again. Yeah, we're going to, we're going to talk about ambiguity right off. So I look at the title and, and really the first thing I thought of was, okay, so how do we mean mad? You know, is she mad insane? Or is she mad angry? Right. So is she a mad woman or is she a literal mad woman? Right. So, and I think the answer is both. All of the above kind of, kind of works so that she is, you know, I don't know, poisoned and yet inspired. So I, yeah, I wrote, I wrote down, if you look at Gilbert and Gabbard, they asked the question, is she angelic? Is she rebellious? Is she unkept? Is she an insane woman? Is she the monster woman? You know, how do we, how do we frame her as a mad woman? And we get to see all that in the song. Yeah. Lots of different framings, I would say. Right. Yeah. So the verse one. Yes. What did you think I'd say to that? Okay. So the word that is what we English teachers call a general reference pronoun. There is no clear antecedent, which tells me this begins in the middle of things, right, to use the Latin phrase in Medeas race in the middle of things. So the story's already been going on when we start the story. Okay. So the question, it bears the question, why does a writer do that? And I think the reason is to cause tension. You know, we want to know, well, what went on before? You know, what is the that that she's talking about? What is it that has made her the the titled mad woman? So she immediately begins to not only ask a question. What did you think I'd say to that? But she frames multiple questions in our minds because of it. So nice work. So it starts with one question, but actually starts with many questions. But yeah, it actually poses many questions. Well, what's the that? Well, you know, and what would she say to whatever that is? And does that is that what made her angry is that would made her insane? You know, and you also want to know who is the I and who is the you? Right. So we have a first person speaker and we have a second person listener and interlocutor, someone she is speaking with at the second person does not speak. So we have a kind of the sort of opening that I would anticipate from a dramatic monologue, which frequently begins in the middle of things and has a first person narrator and has someone else listening who does not speak and all that out of the first line. So we got lots of questions. And that's the fun thing about this poem is it creates that tension over unanswered questions. So line two. Yes. Does a scorpion sting when fighting back? So she answers her questions and questions with a question. Right. And it's a fairly unpleasant question. Certainly. Yeah. So there are lots of fairy tales, folk tales about a scorpion stinging. Probably the most famous is the scorpion on the tortoise. So, you know, the scorpion wants to cross a river. Tortoise says, I'll give you a ride, you know, but don't sting me. The scorpion gets halfway across and stings the tortoise. Well, it doesn't hurt the tortoise because it stings shell. And he dumps the scorpion off and the scorpion drowning says, hey, why'd you do that? And he said, why did you do that? And the scorpion says, I was just being a scorpion. You know, what I am, you knew that. There's a version where called the scorpion of the frog, where he stings the frog and they both die. There's also a scorpion and Orion, which is a story out of classical mythology. OK. So Orion is this great big hunter. You know, he's incredibly strong and good looking and he thinks a great deal of himself. A particular goddess takes offense at this and sends a great scorpion after him. And so the scorpion pursues Orion. And then as with many Greek myths, there are multiple there are multiple versions. So in one of the version, the the Orion laughs at the scorpion says, you can't hurt me in the scorpion stings him on his foot and kills him. In another version, Orion laughs at the scorpion and steps on it, kills the scorpion. But unfortunately, the scorpion's sting penetrates his heel when he steps on it and he kills Orion. In any event, the the gods take pity on both of them and cast them into the skies. And so we have Orion and Scorpio and Scorpio. Yeah, so I know the stars. Now, well, there you go. If you know the stars, then you know that Orion and Scorpio pursue one another, right? Because one of them comes up in the spring time in the summer. Orion races across the sky and then in the winter time, Scorpio comes up. So the scorpion appears to pursue Orion and Orion appears to pursue the scorpion. So eternally locked in this battle. So she asks, does a scorpion sting when fighting back? And the answer is, yeah, that's the nature of the scorpion. Yeah. And and the scorpion is pervasive in its pursuit, whether you're listening to the story of the scorpion and Orion or the scorpion and the frog or the scorpion and the tortoise, the the scorpion always remains true to itself and is pervasive. They strike to kill and you know, I will, you know, I will. So she characterizes herself as this metaphorical scorpion. So we have our our first big metaphor is, you know, the narrator as scorpion, who is going to remain true to her persona as mad woman and strike out and kill. You know, I should call attention here to the literary device of repetition. Yes, repetition is a literary device, generally for emphasis or rhythmic power. So she says that they will strike the skill and you know, I will, you know, I will. And that's going to be something that she does throughout the poem. Yes, she uses repetition. So that's, I guess, one question I have is, how's that going to play out when she sings? How does it play out when she sings? You'll find out soon enough. Oh, darn it. So. We move on in the in the first verse. What do you sing on your drive home? Do you see my face in the neighbor's lawn? Does she smile or does she mouth? Up next, it's bread flare and his new band. Oh, my God, I'm back again. On that back, you see, know, everybody's been. Can I bring new games going to show you now? New game party. Dropping hits every week. Find the new slots. 18 plus be gambler where to talk. That's right. F you forever. What? She drops the F bomb. That's a mad woman. That is a mad woman. It's also by the way, alliteration with the Fs. Oh, yeah. Yeah. A little fun call out to something we just recently watched, the opalite music video that when she makes the friendship bracelet for the rock, it says friends forever. And then whenever the rock is with the cactus in the mall, the the prince of friendship bracelet then says F you forever. You know what? I had forgotten that. That's really fun. So we see it here in folklore and it comes back around on the rock. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good. You know, so essentially the two halves of the first verse, you know, present two different images for me, one as she's talking in the middle of things and she's characterizing herself as this angry scorpion who's ready to kill. And then she's singing to or speaking to someone who she asks, who do you sing on your drive home? Well, I think that she's implying her right, right? Because she's everywhere. She's she's on the radio. She's on Spotify. She's on. Yeah. Almost any media outlet you're going to pull up. She's the number one artist, if unless it's bad bunny. Yeah, yeah. They're always switching off. That's right. But yeah, she's one of the top artists. And so she is pervasive on the sound waves. And I think that she is taunting the you. Right. So she's speaking to someone and she's sort of taunting this person. You know, look, buddy, I'm everywhere. You hear me on your radio on on your drive home. You see my face in the neighbor's lawn. I was curious about this. I I didn't understand if this was imagery or real. I don't I don't know either. So one theory I have seen people say is that maybe this partially was inspired by when her albums were like when her work was sold out from under her. And they're talking about the. Like the the record labels in Nashville when you drive home, like when you drive down the road, apparently, you know, you'll have like one record label here and one record label here. And maybe she like moved to this one. And so then it's like literally. Oh, yeah, seeing her like her new home, her new record. So you see her poster. Right. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't I don't know. That's interesting. But that's that's just one thing I remember people saying is that, like, oh, maybe in Nashville, like when you're driving, you you you just can't help but be reminded of Taylor if you're like in the industry. Well, and I have I have been to Nashville. Actually, I went to Vanderbilt to read a paper for the four C's. The college council on communication. And and I you do see like posters and things like that around town of different artists or where they are or releases of albums and things like that. So yeah. Well, that makes sense to me. Yeah. That's the only thing that's kind of stuck with me that I feel like could make sense. Yeah, I I put, you know, on my note next to that line, I said, is this imaginary or real? Do you see my face in the neighbors? Longs, in other words, is is he driving home and you can't escape? Taylor Swift? I know I can't. You know, I had never taken the time to read articles about her. I know. Shocking. And I got to get a hold of yourself. Until now. And now it's like I can't avoid it. I mean, I have to consciously sidestep. Yeah. Whereas before, I I had always just flipped past them on my newsfeed. You know, now it's like, should I read this one? It looks kind of interesting. She's doing what? Yeah. You know, so. But yeah, I mean, she's omnipresent in our culture. For sure. So I got that, you know, what do you say on your drive home line? And I was wondering if the other was figurative, was imaginary. You know, he's driving home and he just looks up at you because you hear her, you can see her. Right. Yeah. The song comes on the radio. So then you're she's just standing there. Yeah. But I like the idea that he's in the record industry and he's seeing the literal picture of her. And and then the next line is so tauntingly mean. Does she smile? Yeah, like probably not. I know. Well, I love that. Well, and I like it in the context of feminist criticism because, you know, I mean, you may have heard men ask women to smile. Yeah. Why don't you smile? So pretty if you smile. Yeah, I've known you for 10 years. I've never seen you smile. That's a reflection of you, bro. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, so, yeah, I love the laced taunting that does she smile and gives us in the song or does she mouth? You know, it's so funny because when I'm watching a sporting event, like I'll watch football or I watch a lot, a lot of what Americans call soccer. Silly. I know. It's kind of frustrating right now because the we're getting ready for March Madness and like USA TV and stuff have have preempted the British Premier League games for college. Yeah, I know. I'm sitting there going, well, what's what's Newcastle doing today? They're playing Man City, you know, but, you know, and instead I'm watching West Virginia play somebody. I'm like, yeah, dang it. But what's fun about watching them sometimes is you can't hear the players, but they'll give a close up and you'll see the player. Yeah. Mouth something. Yeah, I do love that on the sidelines and stuff where you can see them and do the lip reading. Right. Yeah. And the announcer says he was displeased. I'm thinking, oh, he was. He was much more than just displeased. So again, I really like the imagery that this is relevant to malving the words and then drop the F mom. Yeah. So we get to the pre-chorus. Every time you call me crazy, I get more crazy. What about that? And when you say, I seem angry, I get more angry. So important note, guys. Don't tell her you seem angry. You're not a psychiatrist. OK, just try to roll with it and apologize. It will just make her more angry. You know, but that is true when you when you play off or feed into someone's emotional values. It tends to intensify that emotional value. So I like the truism of the chorus. Yeah. In terms of its literature, I like the repetition. Yes. Right. So she's using repetition there. So we get it. You know, I will, you know, I will. And you call me crazy. I get more crazy. And I seem angry. I get more angry. So everything is intensified. Right. So we're always taking a step up more, more, more. So we not only repeat the word, but we we often repeat the same word. Yeah. And the same phrasing. Right. And also, that's that that's two different two different definitions of mad right there. Yes. Crazy and angry. Yes, it is. Yeah. So we're going to throw ambiguity back at us. Yeah. Yes. And then we get to the chorus, which I I begin to like. This is where for me, the song really takes off or the poem as a poem really takes off. There's nothing like a mad woman. So it's a simile, right? Like a mad woman. And so like an angry woman, like an insane woman. And so what makes a woman mad? What do we call women who are angry or insane? Well, we call them hysterical. Let's you know where the word hysterical comes from. No. Well, it's a Greek word. OK. It yeah, it refers to the uterus. Oh, right. Because the hysterectomy. Yes, hysterectomy. Right. So it refers to the uterus. Hystera Greek word for the uterus. In antiquity, they believe that when a woman went crazy or had some emotional imbalance, she had what was called a wandering uterus. What? It just moves around. And so they had to manipulate the uterus to be sure it slides back into position. I don't feel great about that. Well, you know, it's it's doctors were generally men. Yes. So maybe their their sense of what the woman's body was like was limited. Yes. And it'll get worse. Don't worry. Yeah. Yeah. What a shame she went mad. And of course, we're being ironic here. No one likes a mad woman. OK, so I love the double use of the word like. OK, so in the first line of the chorus, there's nothing like a mad woman. She's using it as a preposition. But in the third line, no one likes a mad woman. She's using it as a verb, right? So we're using different parts of speech for the same word. So again, we're using repetition, but now she's modulating parts of speech. Yeah, it's really fun. So for those of you, I know several of you have remarked in comments that English is not your first language. This is what makes poetry very difficult to translate. Yeah, yeah. Right. Because she's she's really eliciting a play on words by shifting the the part of speech for the word like. And she is doubling off on the use of repetition. And how you translate that, I have no idea. Right. That's going to be very difficult to replicate when you try to translate into another language. For sure. Which is one of the things that makes poetry a great joy in any language. Right. One of the reasons why I like I like reading. I love reading Latin poetry. You know, I love reading Spanish poetry in in in the language because you get a sense of just the right word. So yeah, I love this on my poetry meter, just like clicked all the way over to a hundred. You made her like that. OK, so the you of the guy who's driving home, the guy who sees her face everywhere, the guy she's saying F you to the guy she'd like to kill with her scorpion sting. So we're clearly addressing someone that she's not very fond of. And you'll poke that bear till her claws come out. And you'll find something to wrap your noose around. And there's nothing like a mad woman. OK, so now I think the use word mad is not insane, but angry. Yes. Right. Yeah. So in these three lines, there's a there's a great deal to unpack. First of all, poking the bear is is a metaphor for antagonizing someone who is greater than you, someone who could possibly hurt you back. Oh, OK, that's an interesting way to think of it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a metaphor. She's yeah, she's able to she's got the power. Yeah, she is independent and powerful by the year 2020. She's powerful in the recording industry and she can, you know, her claws can come out and she can hurt you back. Poking the bear is also an allusion to bear baiting. OK. OK, this is something that they used to do just for fun. They used to bring a bear out, you know, maybe in chains, stake them down and then set a pack of dogs on them. Big dogs, dogs like your dog. Yeah. And so they would poke the bear to get it riled up and then set the bears to it. And bear baiting used to be a huge entertainment in medieval Europe. As a matter of fact, we we know that it was done very near what would have been the Globe Theatre in London. Shakespeare refers to bear baiting. It was ultimately outlawed in 1835, which was a huge decade for reform movements. If you're British, you probably know about the reform movement of 1832. So, you know, when we look at time periods in history, they don't always fit neatly into centuries. Like like people like to talk about the 20th century or the 18th century or the 17th century. But but you know that social cultural movements don't always slide right into those. So in history, we have something called the Long Century, the Long 18th century that starts in 1660 with the restoration of the King in England and goes all the way to the reform movement of 1832. OK, that's the Long Century. And after 1832, we make this big cultural shift. We slide into the Victorian age and in British history. And and it's it's a much different tone, a much different texture. And one of the things are the reform movements. I'm going to go back to my man, Charles Dickens, and say, if you read his novels, they're frequently centered on reform elements, right? Doing away with debtors, prisons, taking care of education, taking care of children, orphans, wayward children, the poor. You know, he's got a, you know, doing mine reform, coal miner reform, hard times. You know, so he's got lots of novels that he writes. So he takes a lot of different reform issues. Bear baiting was something that was reformed after a while. But it's interesting. Yeah, it's it's this kind of by our measure, sort of horrific elements. Yeah. But she says you'll put that bear till her claws came out. So she's the bear. So it has a very animalistic characterization. She's a scorpion. Yeah. With a killer tail. She's a bear with who's giant in a claws. Yeah, that's that's like in Who's Afraid of Little Old Me, the witchy one. There was lots of animal like snarling and stuff in that one animal in imagery. So you just said the key word. Oh, yeah. I'm going to say that it is a good deal like witching. OK. So witches were famous for being shape shifters. You know, frequently they shifted into things like dogs or cats or things like that. Occasionally bears. In a Navajo tradition, there were skin walkers who could shift into bear like shapes. I know. So it's it's pretty cool. You know, the possible allusion to witches or which witchy shape shifting certainly works in the context of the poem. She's willing to grab ahold of that that tag and wear it proudly. Then she says, and you find something to wrap your noose around. OK, hanging like a witch. Yeah. Right. So now we're lynching the witch. So more kind of witchy imagery. And there's nothing like a mad woman. So, you know, and I wondered if this was an echo of that expression. There's nothing like a woman scorned. Which is yeah, nothing like a woman. So that's actually from a play by William Congrief in the late 17th century, the morning bride. But, you know, there is nothing like a witch scorned. So someone has wronged her. Yeah. And she is willing to transform and create havoc. And she is powerful enough to do it. Burst two. Yes. Now. You know, can I just go back just a second? I'm sorry. I'm looking down on my notes and I didn't want to to to miss the opportunity to talk about medieval literature. OK, never. The idea that women are hysterical or the idea that women have this wandering universe, a uterus, or that they become a witch is something that is so interestingly replete in or in early literature. So I looked at I looked at at the online Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologia and it's in there. So Thomas Aquinas, a great scholastic thinker, wrote his great work, Summa Theologia, The Summary of Theology. So it's just huge. Five volumes said. So I used to have one and I would impress you by bringing it out. But but I bought the cheap five volume set and it came all unglued. And so all the pages were all over and I had to just ultimately recycle it and get what you pay for, I guess. I know, I know. And now my wife won't let me buy the hardback edition. OK, well, I know I can get you for your birthday. It's about four hundred dollars. Never mind. And I don't know exactly what I would do with it now. I mean, I used to use it for research, but I don't do that much research anymore. You Taylor Swift research now. That's true. But but the work that I did find at the end that I found was really interesting. So this is my copy of Robert Manning of Brune. I don't know her. Him. So. He wrote this work called Handling Sin. Oh, yeah, I know. And he takes all the the the Ten Commandments and all the types of sin and he writes about them. And it's this Middle English, you can say it. Oh, yeah, I don't I don't know those words. I know. Well, it says beginning. Yeah, good for you. I read as Manuel Precious sends he commune a cathet in the beginning. Bech mezzeris in a nice. Yeah, I know it's it's Middle English. And so you probably wouldn't, I don't know, wouldn't be able to read it with any great facility. So I'm just going to ask you to take my word for the fact that. Robert Manning of Brune writes about women who transform into witches and whose wandering uterus causes them to go insane. So we've been writing about this stuff for a long time. Yeah. And the characterization of woman is which or woman as insane is something that that men have pressed on on culture for 3000 years. So I, you know, she's trying to rebel against that. And good luck to you. Yeah, that's a lot of history. Well, it really is, you know, and a lot of sad history. OK, verse two. Sorry, I had to stop and get Robert Manning. Yeah, absolutely. I know it's so. I love this stuff, you know, I mean, I have a whole collection of works in Middle English. So, you know, where else am I going to try it out? I inflicted on you. Thank you for being my willing participant. Verse two. Yes. Now I breathe flames each time I talk. OK, so this is a metaphor, maybe an illusion, certainly a dragon image. She's breathing flames. You may remember the the evil character of the witch, Maleficent turns into a dragon and breeze flames. And now it's quiz time. Oh, gosh. You know what Maleficent means? No. So it's Latin. Well, now is bad. That's correct. Mollie means bad. I don't know the rest, though. It's actually a verb, Focchio or Ficchio, it means to do or to make. So Mollie factor is someone who does evil or makes evil. Oh, yeah, like benefactor. Right. Benefactor does good. Mollie factor, someone who does evil. So Maleficent evil maker. Yeah, that's great. Isn't it? It is kind of fun. So, yeah, she's out there breathing flames. She's turned into this dragon, into this witch character. You know, the next line is really fun. My cannons all fire in at your yacht. So we've got these this metaphor. So he's in the yacht, clearly rich, right? And she's got cannons like a pirate. Yeah. So a yacht, you know, does a yacht carry cannons? Of course. I would assume no, but maybe one of them out there does. So, yeah, she's she is shown, you know, again, metaphorically, she this is the scorpion stinger. This is the bears claw. And now we have a boat metaphor. And so her boat has cannons. Yeah, every time we use one of these metaphors to characterize her, hers is going to be the antagonistic. Yes. Side of that image. Yeah, and the dragon and the dragon. Right. They say, move on. But you know, I won't. This is like the thesis of Taylor Swift's entire discography. And also my own. No, I'm not moving on. I'm not getting over it. Sorry. Just get over it. You know, and I do wonder. It's funny, again, I don't mean to couch everything in this agonistic world of of gender discussion. Well, I mean, that is kind of what the song is, though. But yeah, I mean, I do wonder how many times women get told you just need to get over it. Versus how many times does a man get told you just need to get over it? Yeah. You know, and I'm feeling there is probably an inequity there. Although I've never done that research. I would assume you're correct. I would think so. Yeah. And she's just powerful enough and pissed off enough not to move on. Yeah. And women like hunting witches, too. So again, we have a metaphor, you know, the witch here is a metaphor. Did you know that there was a literal female witch hunter? No. Christian Caldwell in the 1660s was a Scottish witch hunter. Oh, you Scots. You know, James the sixth of Scotland, James the first of England was also really interested in witchcraft and witches. But certainly there are very few of them, but she says she's one of them. So I think that's really funny to me. She's saying I work both sides of the street. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I can. So do plenty of other women. Right. I can be a witch or I can hunt one down. Yeah. I think that's funny. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say that. I thought this poem was funny. It had a good deal of humor. Yeah. Women like hunting witches, too, doing your dirtiest work for you. So I'm wondering, wait a minute, was there a witch working for the you who's hunting her down? Yeah, it feels that way. Yeah. And I keep looking at you thinking there's going to be a biographical story. I mean, I think there is, but I don't think it's one thing. Like, I think that this calls back to Scott Borschetta selling her her her work to Scooter Braun, who she hated. And so I think some of this is directed to Scott about Scott Borschetta. Some of it, I think, is Scooter Braun. Some of it, I think could be Kanye West and Kim. Like they're talking, you know, like the the wives, like Scooter Braun had a wife. Wife, they're not divorced. But she was like, you know, part of the problem before he got to buy her albums. And Kim is the one that posted the edited video for Kanye, you know, so there's just like there's just a lot. And I think that's a normal thing, like, you know, that women are going to be, you know, on their husband's side, even if they know it's wrong because it's their husband. Doing the dirtiest work for him. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's also a truism when you are a celebrity that you know, we love to love you. And when you when you have one misstep, we love to hate you. Yeah, exactly. You know, and I think I mean, if there is a theme that that I think emerges throughout the length of this poem is maybe that is one of the themes because, you know, we she certainly has been subject to both sides of that for sure. Yeah. So, yeah, the women do the dirtiest work. It's obvious that wanting me dead has really brought you to together. And you can't mistake the humor. Yeah, yeah. It's I'm just so glad you two are together. So happy, closer than ever, because you ruined my life. And we probably should stop and call attention to the literary advice of hyperbole. Yes. Right. Wanting me dead. They don't literally want her dead. They just want her career completely destroyed, right? You know, and her personality and personal life dragged through the public muck. Yeah. Otherwise, they're all right with her being alive. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's it's maybe the nature of celebrity and how we respond to them. Yeah. Now, the pre-chorus is pretty much the same, right? Every time you call me crazy, I get more crazy. What about that? Yes. And when you say I seem angry, I get more angry. So angry and angrier. And again, I'm curious to hear how she sings that because it'll be interesting to see if she increases in her angry anger as it goes. And the chorus is is pretty much the same. There is nothing like a mad woman that similarly what a shame she went mad. And again, that's fairly ironic. It you know, it's a shame. But maybe not. Yeah. No one likes a mad woman. You made her like that. And you'll poke that bear till her claws come out and you'll find something to wrap her noose around. And there's nothing like a mad woman. The bridge is a little different. I'm taking my time. Oh, sounds like she's planning her vengeance. Plotting. Taking my time. So she's using that device of repetition again. Because you took everything from me hyperbolic, right? But when you're mad, yeah, you tend to be. You feel you tend to be hyperbolic. Yeah, anger is hyperbolic emotion. Watching you climb, watching you climb again, repetition. And what's interesting is watching you climb. I think the implication is while watching her climb, right? Because she's climbing at the same time. Yeah, they're they're climbing different mountains together and different ways. Yeah, he's climbing over people like me, right? She's climbing in popularity, but he's climbing over taking people down as he's going up. Yeah. And then I do have to admit, I fell into that trap of biographical criticism because the next line, the master of spin has a couple side flings. OK, master of spin sounds like he works for a record company, doesn't and there are a couple of sides on a record. Yeah, so it feels as if she is literally describing a record album. I love that. I actually hadn't even really thought of it that way. But the Scooter Braun, who who purchased her catalog, which I think could be the you took everything from me like you purchased that and I'm allowed to own it, even though she does now. The master of spin is I think is talking about Scooter Braun because he's like a manager and publicist for other celebrities. So he has to spin. Right, has to spin it. He has to spin, you know, scandals and stories, but he's also got her her records. So it's ambiguous, the way that you read the word spent. Yep. I beg you, it feels like a warm bed. Yeah, it's familiar here. It is. Well, and I also wondered if if she's talking about a specific person because it feels like she is outing this man for having had an affair. Yeah, and Scooter Braun is now divorced. Oh, is that right? Did he have an affair? Probably. Apparently. I would be shocked. So, yeah, he's had a couple of side flings. Good wives always know she should be mad. She should be scathing like me, but no one likes a mad woman. So it's like she's outing this dude for having an affair and his wife hasn't heard about it and now she knows. But she's saying like your wife probably does already know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, wives, wives know. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I had to fall into that trap of biographical criticism. And yeah, because it kind of changes the tone of it. It's like it gets so specific. Yes. Yeah. It feels like she's talking about a person who had an affair or affairs side spins. And and she's kind of outing him in front of his wife and now she can join in this company of mad women. What a shame she went mad. You made her like that. So she points the finger at the record executive or or whomever. All the men, all the men, every man. Well, no way. I'm trying. Yeah, but it is interesting. I started making a list of people who made monsters like Dr. Jekyll had to make Mr. Mr. Hyde, Victor Frankenstein made his own monster. Dr. Prytorius made the bride. So yeah, I was making a list. Interesting. As a matter of fact, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Splice. That's kind of a fun, strange movie. But yes, it's about people who try to resplice animal DNA with human DNA. And yeah, and see what they can make. And essentially they create the monster or monsters. Or if you've ever seen Black Swan, the the character of Erica Sayers, yeah, who makes a kind of monster. Yeah. Yeah. So we we like in the world of fiction or movies to explore how we create our own troubles. And that's interesting. Yeah. And she's essentially saying, you know, you helped make me as a as a recording personality. And then you helped make me this mad woman because you took something from me. Yeah. So yeah, I really did go down the rabbit hole of biographical criticism. Yeah. Thank you very much. It's what you're doing to me. Although, I mean, I mean, we can talk about it. I mean, a certain level of biographical criticism is is important, you know. I mean, I use the example of Dickens and holding his sister in law as she died and, you know, placing that character into his novels. I mean, obviously Hemingway doesn't write his his post World War One novels if he's not in World War One. Right. Right. I mean, there are some of his novels. The Sun Also Rises or, you know, where he literally I mean, he was wounded as an ambulance driver. He went into a hospital. The hospital he describes as literally the hospital he stayed in. OK, yeah. Yeah. So a certain level of biographical criticism is probably useful. I don't know if it's always necessary. And certainly when you start looking backward in time at ancient literature, it can be pure guesswork. Right. Yeah, we just don't know. We just don't know. We're so close to her now that we have the advantage of opening up every tabloid at the supermarket. But the truth is, we don't know the particulars of her life. Right. Maybe Travis does. Yeah. Probably. So anyway, that's, you know, that's what I have for this song. Interesting themes having to do with transformation of women having to do with women in angry situations. And I think there's an interesting theme about making your own troubles. Yeah, you know, that is interesting to me. Yeah, that you make your own monsters. Yeah. So you do have a certain amount of control in that regard. Spooky. You ready to listen? I am. Okay, we have a lot to listen to today. OK, OK, so I think what we're going to do is watch the lyric video. And then we will watch the long pond, the folklore, long pond sessions. OK, I like those. Yes, we're going to watch that. Someone I'm sorry to interrupt. Someone mentioned in the comments that I should watch the entire long pond. Is it like one continuous thing? It is. Yeah, it's like a movie. It's just her playing every song and then her and Jack and Aaron talking about them. Yeah, I mean, I like them. They're cozy. Yeah, we're getting we're getting there. You'll get all of them eventually and then you can watch the whole thing. Then I'll be completely perverse and I'll see everything in a biographical lens. Yeah. OK. But Aaron and her talk about this song and how like the inspiration behind it. So that's fun. So we'll listen to that. OK. And then the specialist treat is that this song was part of, I think, the the the most fun mashup that she did on the Ares tour with Cassandra, another mad woman. Yes, Cassandra, mad woman. And then a song that we haven't done and I don't know that we will call that I did something bad and it's just such a fun mashup. I actually did text you the lyrics just now that I mean, I don't know that you need it. But just in case you wanted it and it breaks it down like this is from this song. You know, they're like color coded, but we are going to watch all that. If you would like to watch with us, it is all on Patreon right now for you to go see. And if not, we will be right back. A great story like Monsters Inc stays with you forever. And Disney Class is where you'll find your next great story from the return of the award winning hit series, Rivals. Welcome to the naughtiest show on television to the unmissable crime drama High Potential. Got a dead body. Got to go a lifetime of great stories awaits this spring on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. OK. Mad woman. Pretty angry. Yeah, that's interesting that you said it was more subdued than you were expecting because I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, this feels really angry. And then whenever we started listening to it, I'm like, she doesn't really sound that angry. Yeah, I mean, she she sounds rye and ironic. And you know, I mean, I think that there are moments laced with sarcasm. But for sure. And as she leans on words like crazy and mad. But but yeah, she's her anger is more of a slow boil. Yeah. And when watching her on the Long Pond movie, she you said like she feels she seems tired. And it's like, yeah, like that is exhausting, you know, like, yeah, it's exhausting. And that is kind of what she was portraying. And also, I think maybe there's a little bit there where we're called women are called crazy when they're not acting like she's staying here, you know. Right. Even though they're saying she's like lashing out and being crazy. And but she's like, I'm just staying right here. Yeah. You know, a few several years ago, I read. I read a study in Rhetorica. Yeah, I read those magazines, periodicals. Rhetorica does rhetorical analyses. But it was about women political figures and the language they use and the language used to characterize them and their comments. And I mean, the word bitch comes up a great deal. But, you know, it's hard for a woman to be assertive, clear, forthright without without having labels attached to her. You know, and it that the other article, that study made it very clear that the way we characterize women when they speak in that manner, when they when they are forthright, you know, when they are self-assertive is something that we should be aware of. Yeah. You know, and culturally, I would hope that in time we could address because we don't do the same to men. I think that's when I said she looked tired. I didn't mean like sleepy. Yeah, you know what I meant. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, just I'm just tired of it. I'm just sick of it. Yeah, like, why are we still talking about this? Right. Like, why do I still have to do this? Yeah. Yes, we've been talking about this for 3,000 years. And here we still are. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, if I could say one more thing about the song. As a poem, I don't think I needed the biographical elements of the bridge. Yeah, you know, as a poem, I think it would be cleaner with those edited. But the rest of the poem struck me as true. You know, just as truthful representation of how it must feel to be in this situation as a human being. You know, I'm not even going to say as a woman, I'm going to say as a human. Yeah, as a person to be trapped in this in this cultural me loo, you know, in this cultural moment. This poem struck me as truth. So I like that. There's your compliment, Taylor. OK, range grade mad woman. Yes. Do you think they'll call you anti-feminist if you don't give it hundreds across the board? Just kidding. I hope you trust me better than that. All you folks out there and. OK, a lyrical strength for a mad woman. You know, inconsistent rhyme, um, metrically interesting, but I love the use of repetition. I mean, it's the first time that I've seen repetition used consistently throughout and across the board in one of her poems and really liked it. So the lyrical string 98. OK, narrative and structure. You know, as a narrative, I really liked the use of animal imagery and maybe that leans over into other poetic elements. I love the scorpion, the bear, the the dragon, the cannons, the, you know, all the different images that she uses as though, you know, women are only possessed of talons. The I liked it very much. You know, I mean, I texted you almost immediately. Yeah, I was like the fastest. I think you've been like, I love this. I'm ready to talk about it right now. And I'm like, well, I'm not. And that's why I think I think I characterize it as true. You know, like this feels this rings true. Yeah, you felt it instantly. Yes. Yeah. So 99. OK. Production and atmosphere. Yeah, I liked actually I like the long pond session. I like the way she would she twists her head and and says, hey, you did that. Yeah, you know, and I like watching her facial expressions. So if I just took that one in isolation, I don't know that I like the mashup a lot. But I really like the long pond session, just watching her react to the song. So 98. OK. Lore and literary references. Yeah, yeah, it's it is repeat with literary references or at least ones that rolled around in my head of all the ways we characterize, you know, the female, you know, the feminine in our culture. So 98. OK. I know this could be really high. Yeah. Emotional impact. Yeah, I mean, I wanted to stand with her and say, yeah, why why do we have to be? Why do we have to be driven to the point of insanity? Why do we why do we have to be driven to the point of losing control of our own emotional character? Why do we do that to each other? And I know I'm in charge of my emotions. I know that, right? But still. But sometimes a scorpion has to sting sometimes. So yes, 99. OK. I think that gives us a 98. There you go. Yes. I like this one right away. Yeah, it's a fun one. Yeah, I do really enjoy her facial expressions. I do. Long fund. Yeah, you know, it's not so much for the song as the poem that I felt and affinity for the for the poem. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Anything else? No. You know, again, I'd like to see multiple versions of this. You know, I'd like to see one where she does a more works outside of the Confessionalist mode. But that's just me. OK. Make sure that you are subscribed everywhere, rate us, review us wherever you listen or watch. Make sure you keep up with us on social on Instagram and TikTok at Swifty and Scholar Pod. You can now follow us. No, follow us. Subscribe to us on Patreon. You can follow Uncle Jerry on Instagram at Dr. Uncle Jerry and you can find me on Instagram at Angela Wyatt McDowell. And I'll be sitting here reading my Robert Manning Brune. Yeah, in Middle English. Bye. Bye.